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Ep. 29 | David Young joins Michael Allen on The Hub to Unpack Holiday Expectations & Prevent Emotional Burnout
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The lights get brighter, the playlists turn up, and the pressure follows. On this episode of The Hub Podcast, host Michael Allen sits down with counselor and pastor David Young to explore why the most wonderful time of the year can also feel heavy, stressful, and emotionally complex. From financial pressure and comparison to crowded schedules and gray-day blues, David explains why counseling requests often increase during the holiday season and how to respond with intention instead of burnout.
Proudly sponsored by Manpower Richmond, The Hub focuses on real conversations that lead to practical help. David shares insight on how blended family schedules, strong traditions, and unspoken expectations can quietly create tension. He offers simple conversation scripts, smaller ritual ideas, and advice on planning earlier in the year so emotions do not set the tone later.
For anyone walking through loss, David shares a gentle perspective on holding sadness and gratitude at the same time. He explains how remembrance can bring comfort without forcing cheer. For those who practice faith, he encourages returning to the heart of the Christmas story as a steady anchor instead of letting consumer pressure take over.
This episode gives clear action steps including how to set expectations with extended family, how to recognize when seasonal mood shifts need support, and how to choose presence over performance. You are not behind, and you are not alone.
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Learn more about David Young and counseling support at https://www.cpcrichmond.org/clear-counseling/
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What boundary or tradition will you keep or adjust this year?
Welcome And Sponsor Message
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Hub Podcast, recorded right here in Richmond, Indiana. I'm your host, Michael Allen, and on the Hub, our mission is to share stories of people making a difference in our region. In addition to hosting the podcast, I work with a wonderful team of staffing professionals at Manpower. Manpower is helping companies all over East Central Indiana find staffing so they can continue to grow and thrive. Find out how we can help your company at mprichmond.com. Hey everyone and welcome
Setting Up The Holiday Struggle
SPEAKER_01to the hub. I'm Michael Allen, and today we're diving into something a little bit different today. It's uh bringing in the holidays. And in my notes here, I said the fact that, but I don't know if it's really a fact, but this time of year, at least my perception is it can be really hard for a lot of people. I'm talking about Thanksgiving and Christmas, maybe even New Year's. And I think that the holidays can bring some pressure to be happy and grateful, and you're surrounding yourselves with people that you love, but that's maybe not everyone's reality. And um between family stress and maybe financial strain, maybe even grief, loneliness, the most wonderful time of the year can be stressful for people.
Guest Intro And Background
SPEAKER_01And I have a good friend uh visiting with me today. It's David Young. He's assistant pastor and counselor with Christ Presbyterian Church. And uh part of that uh part of our outreach at uh Christ Presbyterian is clear counseling, and David does a lot of counseling week in, week out. And actually, uh David has the distinction of being our very first guest on the hub back uh when we started streaming in June of 23. And I thought this was just a great opportunity to have David back. So, David, welcome back to the hub. Good to be. Um, we covered this a little bit the first time that you were there, uh, but I think it'd be good just to kind of review for some people who maybe didn't watch the first time you were on, is just kind of give us a brief summary of your background and working up to coming here to work.
SPEAKER_00Sure thing. I'd love to. It's um it is a long, drawn-out story, the full one. Uh the brief one is uh just sense the call of the Lord calling me into ministry. And the initial call was to be a counselor. I was uh just had a natural acumen to come around people. I was naturally empathetic, I was a good listener. Uh but when I went to school and was on the counselor track, they wanted you to be M Div, Master Divinity. And I fell in love with preaching and teaching. So that kind of deterred my track for about 20 plus years to be a pastor or a counselor. So about oh, I'll say about 2013-ish, planted a church in Northwest Florida, and a lot of folks that were in the church were military connected and were coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan and and uh and I would do spiritual guidance counseling already, but these guys and gals were coming back with some very deep issues, and I realized really quick that uh these were well beyond my pay grade. And and but I wanted to be a help. I wanted to have faith-based integrated counseling with them, but I also needed depth. And so I um I guess about 2019-2020, uh started a um going to school at Colorado Christian University to be uh get a master's in clinical mental health counseling. And so I graduated in that uh in December of 22, and it was about that time that I came here, and and so I've kind of been counseling ever since.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Well, I think um you're you're a real modest guy, really humble. And but I think you know you're you're super gifted in that you are a really good preacher. Uh I've been in areas where you've taught and you're great there, and we've had some conversations, and I think you're a pretty good counselor too. So you kind of got the trifecta going for you. So you you've been blessed, you you do a great job, and I think we're really lucky to have you in your community. Uh thank you. Um kind of getting into our topic, you know, you and I were sat down, you know, before today, we were talking about the doing the podcast, and and after we talked, spoke a little bit, I started feeling kind of guilty like I was really interjecting, I was like a self-precting that the holidays were just gonna be crappy, you know, or or it was crappy for everybody. I felt but kind of started like, am I being super negative about this time? But I I for some reason it just hit me, you know, the time of the year it is. I thought that just could be kind of a good conversation, and David would be perfect for this. So uh anyway, well, I'm still gonna do this because I was I felt led to do to have this conversation, but uh part of me thought, are you being like negative? Um self-fulfilling prophecy, prophecy, that's what is the word I was trying to think of. So so anyway, uh we we look at the holidays as a joyful amount, magical time. I think a lot of people do, but like the song, you know, it's the most wonderful time of the year, you know. So why do you think that maybe for some people it isn't?
Why Holiday Stress Hits Almost Everyone
SPEAKER_01I guess just to kind of get us started.
SPEAKER_00I I would take the word sum out just because almost everybody stresses over it. And and it's yes, there's a lot of festivity and there's a lot of fun uh that is there, but there's a stress to make it fun. Um there's uh mothers wanting their children to wake up Christmas morning and have the most fantastic Christmas ever. When the previous year they had the most fantastic Christmas ever. Now they got to top it. And so there's the stress of of that. Um and then there's the stress, if you're going to do that, there's the financial stress. And, you know, how are we gonna pay for it? And then that creates stress if you have a married couple and they've got two, three, four kids. And now there's a stress in the uh conversation about money and trying to provide and do all these things. And so the stress about the financial is high, and then there's the stress about the social is high because there's parties and parties and parties, and everybody wants you to come. And you know, you may have one spouse that wants to go to all of them, you got the other spouse that what does not want to go to any of them, and that creates some issues, and so it's just a it's a high tide of just natural stress that everyone incurs. Okay.
Grief And The First Christmas Without
SPEAKER_00The other side of it is when people are dealing with bleak issues, this is what you were alluding to earlier, this is the dark side, and and that is if you've lost a loved one and you go through the first Christmas without them. You know, last year, um, last year three days ago, one year ago and three days, um, my mother passed away. And Christmas was always her favorite time of the year, and so she loved it so much. And and I just remember when Christmas happened, you know, there was a sense of she's not here. And, you know, there was it wasn't a terrible poll, but it did affect it. Um, but if you have a a beloved wife who has passed and you've spent 45 to 50 years and you go through the first Christmas, uh, it it can weigh terribly on a person. Uh and you know, not to mention a a child or not to mention a pet. I mean, it's it's there's there's a lot of grief that is associated with it, and the loss at Christmas is is like they're not here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, and and it just brings a heaviness to what should be bright. And and so there is uh quite a bit of that that is there. And and so so there's a lot of issues around the holidays that just seem to magnify what goes on in July. It just comes December. It's it's just like it comes to a pretty big time head. I know personally, um in June, July, August, my counseling schedule begins to go down. And you know, the sun is out, it's warm, people are outside, and they're doing all the all the well-being stuff, being out in the sun, all these things are good for you, it's good for your soul, it makes you happy. And and so counseling is the last thing on their list, even though they're carrying the weight of the world, but they feel better about themselves. Uh, and then we have in Indiana, we have more gray days than bright days as far as uh fall, winter, and even going in the spring. And and so there's a real thing called gray
Seasonal Blues And Gray Days
SPEAKER_00malay. It is uh just uh you just sort of start getting depressed because you hadn't been out in the sun. And you know, you've just sort of been away from it, and you're you're naturally become semi-depressed, you know. So so my counseling schedule starts picking back up, um, you know, early October, and then going into uh even now, uh, I'm really having to push my appointments so much further into the future, more so than I like to.
SPEAKER_01Well, that was one of my
Counseling Demand Spikes And Why
SPEAKER_01questions. If you've if you found that you know, people in this time of year pick up, you know, the calls come in more who people want to meet. You've already answered it, but that that was kind of one of the things I was gonna ask you, but you just answered it. You know, do you find that people tend to kind of really want to engage more this time of year?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, because they feel bad about feeling bad. You got Thanksgiving coming up and they feel sad. Uh, you've got the most wonderful time of the year and the brightness of Christmas, and they don't want to participate. They don't want to be around people. So when you get sad, you start getting um you know, you want to withdraw, you don't want to be around people, and that just exaggerates what you're going through because social is such a big part of your your well-being. And and so if you disconnect socially, now you're alone and alone and lonely and alone. Yeah, you know, it's just it is not a good spot.
SPEAKER_01Well, you talked about um you know, losing someone and and my wife, I mean, one of her childhood memories is one of her grandparents died on Christmas Eve. You know, and she just remembers that. That's right. You know, and that's you know, the for grandma, grandpa to to die, right, the eve right in the right on the eve of of of a holiday like that, I'm sure that year it took a lot of wind out of the house. Oh the dynamics of the the holiday and just the grieving and and uh so yeah, that those things happen and they're they're super real. Yes. Um I uh one of my notes I said, you know, we that we do set this we create this narrative that that the way the holiday really should be. Right. Yeah, and about like that's that's so that's so tough to do that because you said, well, last year was the greatest, and and then how you're gonna top that. I I mean I don't what what can we do to avoid doing that to ourselves? I I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_00I don't know, other than cryonically uh freezing yourself and just you know say I'm I'm just not gonna participate this year. You you're going to be associated with it. And you know, Halloween happens and immediately they have Christmas. You know, every all the stores have their Christmas trees up, all the lights are up, and so they're already focused on Christmas. And you know, the tree light's gonna open soon. Uh it's it's in your face. And you know, and I don't know, it's just it's a huge stress. Um, I know the economy loves it, but the uh the people who participate in it, uh, it can become almost a form of dread, uh, even in the joy. You know, it's that balance uh that's there.
SPEAKER_01So well I think if you talk you talk to different people, but the the consumer culture that we live in today, I think kind of started
Family Dynamics And Divorced Homes
SPEAKER_01in the 50s and it's just been on an upward trajectory ever since. Oh yeah. And it doesn't seem to be letting up at all. And I don't know what um what would maybe shift the tide in that area. I I don't know. Um maybe it's just the way the world is and and we can talk about um I do want to talk a little bit about a Christian world perspective about this time of year. Um talk about family just a little bit, you know, because you we talked about you mentioned gatherings and you know, a lot of us come together with family, and I mean I mean, there's making some assumptions here because not knowing about people's relationships, but I mean you're supposed to love your family and uh you know it's a lot of the holidays involve being with family and uh it can be friends too. Um you know, but based upon the situation or the the dynamics, it it can be pretty emotionally draining and toxic. And um I'm not sure what we can do to avoid these outcomes with family that way. I don't know. I mean, the dynamics in today's world um with uh like for me, my parents were divorced when I was seven. So now I've got me and my mom, my sister, and my dad's outside of that. Right. And so now we're not celebrating together as a family. And I don't quite frankly, being seven years old, I don't think I really have memories of celebrating as a family.
SPEAKER_00Right.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01So maybe you're a little bit more resilient as a child.
SPEAKER_00Well, as a child, you know, the opposite happens. You're going to have Christmas with mom, and then later on that day or the next day, you're gonna have Christmas with dad. Uh so you kind of double your Christmas fun.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then you have, you know, the dynamic between the husband and wife that have now separated. They're wanting it to be better than what they're going to. And so there's this little internal war of, you know, making it the best Christmas for them with me. Right. And and so that's pressure. But the kids, they're just like, Wow, hey, this was a great Christmas. I can't wait to go to dad's, you know. And yeah, and and so from their point of view, uh, it it doesn't really affect. Um, but you know, in a in a broken relationship, it it does create another level of stress that is there. And and so that's just you know, it's just hard. It really is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, family gatherings berserk. I kind of mentioned this to you. And I don't know how many people um watch this show. It's pretty popular. It's called The Bear.
Pop Culture Mirrors Holiday Chaos
SPEAKER_01And but I was telling you about this episode called The Fishes. And um uh the Bearsotto family, they come together for Christmas, and uh this Christmas gathering, and uh two of the actors, uh, I mean, there's some really great actors besides these two, but there's Jamie Lee Curtis, and there's uh she's the mom, and and uh Jeremy Allen White, he's one of the kids, and uh they have this um incredible Christmas gathering. And so I for those of you uh watching or listening, I would go and stream that episode if you really kind of want to see an interesting uh episode of family dynamics during a holiday from the most from the most joyous to the most toxic, terrible. Because the episode, I mean, a little bit of spoiler, it it ends up with uh mom driving her car into the house. But um anyway, uh and my son just walked into the studio. He he's the one that got me onto the show, so he probably definitely um uh remembers this episode. But anyway, I I think of like all the holiday movies that you've watched and how they're scripted. That's right. You know, that it's interesting how it seems like there's always like everything starts off great and then everything goes horrible. That's right. And then there's this redemptive thing. Right. And now, you know, like Elf, you know, the movie Elf. I mean, his dad, he was because it looks for his dad, and he wants his dad wants nothing to do with it. He doesn't even believe it's a son initially. And uh, but then at the end, there everything's great. I mean, you know, they take but you know, it's I don't know if that's real, and I don't know if that do you and your wife like to watch Christmas movies and stuff? Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00I it is the better question is with your wife, do you ever not watch Christmas movies? Yeah, because when the season hits, it is on. It is it's hallmark, whatever it is, we are watching a Christmas movie, and uh and she just loves it. Christmas music
Traditions, Expectations, And Letting Go
SPEAKER_00is going, she she loves decorating for Christmas. I mean, that's uh it is her time of the year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And uh, you know, and at the age we are, and with our kids uh kind of grown and gone, um, they're establishing their own little Christmas tradition. So Christmas with us is rare. And so this year, uh uh the kids are coming in the town, so Christmas with us is happening this year. So so we have the stress of making the house ready. You know, we um uh we already we have this this tree that's like 25 foot tall. It's like a gigantic Christmas tree. And and so we put lights on it, not killed ourselves doing it, but you know, it's we're doing it for the grandkids. You know, we want them to go, ooh, you know, and and it's it's just what we do. And so so we're looking forward to everybody coming in, you know, and then there's the stress of where they're gonna sleep, and then there's the stress how we're gonna feed them, you know, and what we're gonna do. Um, I don't know. It's just there's a lot of good in that, you know. Um, but you know, you can have a marvelous season like this and totally forget, you know, that old adage, the reason for the season, you know, and and and so in in my world, the the counseling that I do is called faith-based integrated counseling. So it's modern techniques, but you integrate um you know scripture into it, lead people back to um you know what God has done for you, right? And and so um it it does bring a challenge to it, but at the same time, there's a lot of people yearning for um something outside themselves, you know, to come around them. They are there's that internal yearning and and counseling gets to that. And and that's been really uh very cool to be able to you know just be used by the Lord in that in that way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What one opportunity to to to give a little bit of advice here is um I think something that's very common, and I think we spoke outside of today about this, just talking about the topic, is that so there's families that want to set up their you know, you you have children and you want to have your own kind of start your own family tradition or your time together, but there's you have parents that you were part of that, and they kind of put some expectations on you, like, oh no, we want you here for this or to be part of this, and so that I think a lot of people come across this topic, and so I mean, how how do you break free from that without uh and being loving and kind, but try to explain it to your your family, in most cases it's gonna be your either sets of parents, right? About hey,
Faith-Integrated Counseling And Focus
SPEAKER_01we want to spend time with you, but we also are trying to establish something here for our family. I mean, any advice on how to even go into that?
SPEAKER_00Oh goodness, you know, it it's it's an important subject, but it's a hard subject because every, you know, child and parent relationship is absolutely different. You know. And you know, so even in the best situation, if you have a strong patriarch or a strong matriarch, and they have these high expectations. It's like the unwritten rule. And and so all the kids are complying, you know, that's it, we'll just keep keep the folks happy, that's what we're gonna do. And and and that's kind of sad because you have your own little world. You got your own, you know, your husband, wife, you got your little kids, and you're wanting to start your own traditions that are there, but yet you feel handcuffed to this other. And and so always, always the the best route is conversation. It's to risk bringing it up and you know to come and just say, you know, hey, I know we have these traditions, y'all have these expectations, but we want to establish our own. And we want you to be part of this. We don't want to take away from what you're doing, but you know, we want you to be part of this. How can we compromise? How can we work toward this? Or how can we, you know, how can you support this and then we come alongside you? And I was very slow on the uptake on this when Sandy and I were uh younger, and we had our, we had two kids at the time. And my mother, uh, she was the queen of Christmas, and she wanted the whole family there. She had expectation of everybody would come to the house on Christmas Eve, everybody would spend the night there, everybody would wake up and we'd all unwrap presents together. And it got to the point where, you know, my my brother and my sister, and then we have our husband, our wives, we have all our children. It is a mass humanity, and and so there's something fun about the family aspect of it. Yes. Uh, but um, for my wife, uh, her family, her upbringing was never that.
Reframing Christmas Around The Gospel
SPEAKER_00And and so she wanted for our kids our own. Yes. And and and that was very important to her. And you know, I was just sort of going with the flow and really missing the point that this is something that was near her and dear to her. And and so we it just it created a uh a strain between me and Sandy, but it but it also created a moment that we just had to kind of say, we're going to do our own, you know, because my mother was not supportive. And and so that created a rift to some degree that trickled down to my brother and my sister, and they're less, why are you doing this? Why are you rocking the boat? And you know, and it's just you're making this miserable for everyone. And and but it when we did it, uh, we probably didn't do it well, you know, we just did it. And and then we were just sort of declarative. This is what we're gonna do, we're gonna do this, and then we'll come around you. And and I think what would have helped is if we had had a conversation. How can we um, you know, you know, move together? We all want to have our own celebrations. How can we be supportive? And and but it's also as we get older to be mindful that we have to let go and let them. And and that's just hard. It really is. And and I know for us, um, our I mean, our kids, we got one in South Florida, we have one in Boston, we have one up in Minnesota, and so none of them are near. No, it's pretty spread out. It was very spread out. It says something about their relationship with us. But but you know, it's uh when we are we're we're looking like last Christmas, we all went to Boston and we all gathered there. And that was kind of cool, you know, and you know, and and uh there was a gathering we did up in Minnesota, we all gather there, and and so that has been something new and fun, is that you know, the letting go has sitting there going, hey, we'll go where y'all go. We want to make this good for you. Uh this Christmas, uh one Christmas, we celebrated Christmas night on the day because we couldn't get all our schedules to line up. So we were celebrating Christmas two days before, or four days before, or two days after when everybody was there. So it's just, you know, talking it out in August, you know, September and October, uh, and just so that everybody is kind of on board is the best way. But generally we are conflict avoidance, and so we just don't say anything, and you know, and we just
Finding Joy In Church And Service
SPEAKER_00don't go along. Then you create a problem.
SPEAKER_01I mean, not everybody that is gonna watch or listen to this uh podcast may not be a believer and they may not have a you know Christian worldview of uh the holiday. I mean, you said the thing you know about the the reason for the season. Right. And um how can or how have you or or how can we uh try to redirect our first of all, probably our children, and that but maybe even people and have an impact on the people in our own family, adults even, uh to try to foc to try to get focused back on why we were even having this holiday, which was you know God sending the son to this earth to redeem us from our sins. Right. I'm saying that right. Right. And uh but I mean I mean how how have you done that or I mean what what are what are some of your thoughts on on the topic? It's maybe tough.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is. In in my world, um, if someone is of faith, then we get into faith issues. If someone is not of faith, then uh I honor their position. Absolutely. And you know, so it's it's uh uh I don't use it as a platform unless they allow it.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Um but it does open the door to allow people to remember the gospel. And you know, because when you talk about
Seeing Loss Through A Hopeful Lens
SPEAKER_00giving, we think of um the baby Jesus, you know, this is the day he was born. And and so we're sitting there going, all right, God came into this world, you know, but he came into this world for a reason. It wasn't just to give a baby, right? It was for Jesus, the child, to grow and give his life. And and so Christmas is beginning that journey toward Easter, you know. But so so we have to kind of keep those two places in mind. Uh and you know, it's um you know, how do we do that as a family? I mean, I think we just don't want to press church out or press the reason out. You know, if we concentrate so much on gifts, then we lose the point. And and so it's really uh for the for the parents to uh try to keep you know the crisis in. Centered on that. You know, there's there's great books and devotions and and various material that is available, but to to come in and go, you know what, if we if we got 10 days to Christmas, uh, let's look at uh 10 passages toward why Jesus came, you know, and you can I don't know, it it's it's a hard subject, but um, I'm sharing the gospel all year round. It doesn't increase at Christmas, right? You know. Um, but to to come in and get to the point of, you know, Jesus gave his life for you. And I try to individualize it. I try to get the person to stand at the foot of the cross and see Jesus suffering and ask the question, why are you suffering so terribly? Who are you suffering so terribly for? And then challenge them to look around to see who he is and see no one but you standing there. I want them to feel the weight uh of that. Uh because when we feel the weight of someone suffering and dying
No Quick Fixes, Just Real Work
SPEAKER_00for us, that's the ultimate gift. I've been given so much. And when we receive that, then Christmas is giving in honor of that, you know, and and it does kind of make you mindful of that. So it's just holding the gospel front and center and you know, just you know, reminding our kids it's it's a great time to maybe tell our kids and and and all of us, uh you and me, we both go back to the cross. We both go back to, you know, just we want this to be dear. We don't want it to get lost in the woods.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, Christmas celebration of that is arrival, but that just started a 30-plus year buildup to that ultimate gift.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, oh yeah. And it didn't work out too well for the you know the other boys in Bethlehem when Jesus was born. Yeah. That was a lot of death that was there. And you know, because the world, the the evil of this world hated the idea of that and they were against it. And you know, so Christmas, you know, we've made it bright, and but that first Christmas, yeah, it was a pretty dark time.
SPEAKER_01I um when I think about the things that that I do or maybe that I enjoy the most during this time of year, or or maybe some of the like especially Easter or or this time leading into Christmas, is the times that really mean to me is is trying to go to some go to the some of the services that my my uh
Encouragement To Seek Help
SPEAKER_01our church has. Right. Like my favorite thing, uh probably my most favorite thing in the in the during the Christmas time is the children's play that our church does. You know, we have um Mendy Deckard, who goes to our church, who's does a tremendous job putting putting on this, it's a drama, and it's also singing, and but the it's a they take different adaptations of stories, but it all leads to the real meaning of the holiday. Right. And and there's just something about seeing kids singing and acting out and doing that that just at least for me brings a lot of joy to my heart, yeah. You know, to see them um not focusing on the commercial part of it uh and the other things that we've added, but but focusing toward the main reason. That that just I love that. I love that. And uh so that's that's always very therapeutic
Closing And Subscribe Request
SPEAKER_01for me during this time of year. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's um yeah, want to kind of get back into sort of the dark side. Um there is when when people have lost beloved ones and they're experiencing Christmas without them, it it is truly, it's it's sad, it's heavy. And but if their beloved is in the Lord, if we could see it from their perspective, you know, that they are with Jesus, they are celebrating before the Lord, they are alive and fullness beyond anything we could ever ask or even imagine. It is it is beyond our comprehension. And but if we can see it from their point of view and to see the joy and splendor, because it's truly Christmas where they are without stress. And and so when we are struggling with grief or something at Christmas time, seeing it from our beloved's perspective is a challenge, but the more we do that, it warms us at our most inmost being. I I say this often to to people who have lost a dear one uh throughout the year, and especially as they come toward Christmas, is I'll tell them that void that you feel is filled up. You know, that you may that void may feel empty where your beloved used to be, but your beloved is with the Lord, so he is surrounded by glory. So that void that you fill is filled with glory, it's filled with splendor. And and so receive that. And you know, because that's when your faith becomes real. It doesn't just become, you know, a cultural thing that was done. My faith has now become real. And it helps you celebrate in their celebration, even though you still feel the tinge of the loss. Does that make sense? I mean so it is uh that's what we talk about a lot when I'm coming around someone that is um it's a blue Christmas, it's uh it's a sad Christmas or or something, because it's truly it's sad on our part. It's our loss.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I I think I set us up for kind of a hard conversation as far as trying to just resolve it for people because everyone comes from a different place. Until you sit down with person and really kind of understand all the unpack all the suitcases or all the baggage, you know, you then you can really kind of start to maybe hopefully try to help guide person, a person to uh, you know, I don't know, coping or w with whatever they're going through. And so it's so it it is it's not when I thought about this conversation, it's now that we're into it, it's it's a lot harder now than I thought it was going to be. It's not it's not like you know, uh Dr. Laura or or the TV show Frasier where they're calling in, you know, and just to do a quick answer, okay, now you're good. That's right. That's right. It's it's that's not very real. Right, no. You know, and uh it takes a lot of time. I know I asked you once about um when how many times does it take for somebody, you know, to meet with you to feel like you're really maybe hopefully making some inroads, and you said at least eight sessions. You know, and so uh this is not eight sessions. No, that's right. That's right. It's just kind of the tip of the iceberg. But um I appreciate the conversation and uh agreeing to uh to sit and do this today. I don't know if there's anything else that you want to add to what we've talked about before we wrap up.
SPEAKER_00No, not I mean it's you know, I think sometimes we feel bad that we feel bad. And you know, and there's a little bit of a stigma to to seek out a counselor. And, you know, but uh whether it's myself or others in the community here, we are here for you. And our primary objective is to hear you and listen to you. And and that alone is very therapeutic, you know, to kind of come in and be able to express that out. And so if you're really struggling, I just encourage you to reach out and um you know, fight through the stigma of it. Just reach out and call because you will be blessed. You really will.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you for that. Um, thank you for agreeing to do this today. Sure. And, you know, for those of you to listening, you know, watching, I you know, this year is a struggle for you. I hope I hope this conversation was helpful in some way. Um uh that's really all for this episode of the hub. And uh thanks again for listening and watching. Uh please, if you're if you are listening and watching, please share this and subscribe. Um, and we'll see you next time with another great conversation. Thank you. That's all for this episode of The Hub. Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time for another conversation with a difference maker from our region. Empower is proud to support the hub. Find out how they can support your business at mprichmond.com.