Good Vibe, Big Visions: Microdosing In Entrepreneurship

Welcome back to Proof It's Possible! In this conversation, Jamie and Julie Cyvonne explore the fascinating world of psychedelic facilitation and microdosing. Julie shares her journey from being an attorney to becoming a psychedelic facilitator, discussing the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics for mental health and personal transformation. They delve into the nuances of microdosing, including protocols, methods, and the importance of integration after psychedelic experiences. The conversation also touches on the evolving legal landscape surrounding psychedelics and the potential for healing and growth through these practices. Tune in to discover: 

• How psychedelics can increase neuroplasticity and allow for new learning and growth
• How Julie started microdosing and coaching to treat her anxiety after traumatizing experiences in therapy
• When you should take breaks from microdosing to prevent reduced effectiveness due to tolerance
• Why microdosing is a good fit for high-performing women
• If microdosing is a good fit for you

Have you tried microdosing, or would you try it? Share your thoughts with us — we’d love to hear! DM us on Instagram @dayle_sheehan_designs & @jamiedfrancis! See you next time!

This episode is sponsored by our Ultimate Girls Trip! Be sure to go to www.proofitspossible.com for more info.

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Transcript

Jamie (00:30)
Hi guys, welcome back to Proof It's Possible. Today, Dayle is not here. It is just me, Jamie, and a really exciting guest, somebody that I'm so pumped to chit chat with because I find her area of work just completely fascinating. But today we have Julie Savone, and she is a psychedelic facilitator. So I cannot wait to dive right in. So Julie, can you tell us a little bit about what you do? What does it mean to be a Yes.

Julie Cyvonne (00:55)
Yes, thank you so much. sorry.

Jamie (00:58)
Sorry, what does

it mean to be a psychedelic facilitator?

Julie Cyvonne (01:01)
Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me, Jamie. It's great to officially get to meet you. I was chatting with Dale before I'm sorry that she's not feeling well. But yeah, psychedelic facilitation is really the process of guiding someone through the intentional use of

psychedelics and psychedelics, you know, that is psilocybin. That's what I work with magic mushrooms. We also think about sometimes like ayahuasca is a popular one that comes up in people's minds. But it is not, you know, just taking something to have a good time. I know, you know, many of people have had a recreational experience, which I think is beautiful of no judgment against recreational experiences, but like going to perhaps like

a concert or something like that. This is not what what my work is it is with the aim in mind whether that be for healing for expansion for clarity. And there is a lot that you could do with like the directed use of a psychedelic

Jamie (01:51)
Okay, okay, before we even begin, what are your thoughts on, I guess, you describe to our audience, someone who's like, what, I've never heard of this before, what it means to microdose so that they have an idea of what that entails?

Julie Cyvonne (02:05)
Yes, so micro dosing is taking a sub perceptual amount of a substance. It doesn't specifically refer to one thing in particular, right? And I don't even necessarily want to say sub perceptual. So I think what a lot of your listeners might have heard is people micro dosing, glp ones. So it just means taking a fraction of a full dose. So in the case of

Jamie (02:24)
Is this like

a daily thing?

Julie Cyvonne (02:27)
So one of my biggest pet peeves is when I hear people say I microdose all the time I microdose every day and I'm thinking well you shouldn't not because it's going to hurt them but simply because psychedelics in particular build up tolerance very quickly. So like let's say you truly are microdosing every day you're microdosing you know, Monday through Sunday for several months. It stopped being effective honestly probably before the like the first full month of you doing that because your brain habituates very quickly.

So you want to be following a protocol which is just a

fancy name for a schedule of both on and off days for a set amount of time. Traditionally, I like to recommend people follow a protocol for 30 days and then they take an integration break of doing no on days at all. But for someone who perhaps is dealing with my fibromyalgia babes, I have a lot of women who are struggling with fibromyalgia pain that comes to the practice of microdosing, or my ladies who have perhaps treatment resistant depression or a long time of SSRI use, I might have them do it a longer amount of time for their first round.

But at max 90 days of following a set protocol

Jamie (03:32)
Okay, fascinating. And like when you say microdosing, are we talking like a tea, a pill, a straight up mushroom that you put on your pizza? Like what are we talking about here?

Julie Cyvonne (03:43)
I prefer to work with capsules and there are a few different reasons. One, I work with three different companies and when I say work with them, it's not that like you have to use one of those companies if you work with me, but those are the companies that I personally guarantee that, know, if you want to make sure you receive them in the mail, that they are exactly what they say they are, that these are the three companies you must order in order to receive that guarantee from me. And all of the capsules just contain ground up

psilocybe. So there are variety of different kinds of mushrooms or morel mushrooms, which are really tasty and cooking right psychedelic mushrooms are psilocybes that is like the class of mushroom, they're functional mushrooms, you think of reishi cordyceps, etc. So it's ground up psilocybes. Some of the companies will ground up functional mushrooms like that lions made and put them in there. And I have one company particular that I work with. She is an herbologist, or an herbalist. And so she creates her own like unique

brand of microdosing capsules and the things that she puts in the capsule like we'll notice they're all intended like it's a very intentional process for her of why she puts it in there. I you know, don't even pretend to know anything about that. But it is a really lovely blend that she makes. So I like capsules because they are pre measured. They are exactly what they say they're going to be if you work with my companies. And you know that it is the dosage that it says it is versus and this isn't my companies in particular but

it is well documented that there been lots of you know, reports on people testing gummy micro dosing capsules that they've purchased chocolate micro dosing like squares, and they're testing and they're not finding any psilocybin in it. So what that tells me either is like the product is

Jamie (05:12)
Yeah.

Julie Cyvonne (05:21)
you know, false advertising, or the thing about edibles, I just don't like and I mean, this is true in cannabis for me as well. It's like, you don't really know that in that one square or gummy or whatever it is what it says it's going to be like dosage wise versus if you truly just grind up mushrooms and put them in a pill that looks like it looks like a vitamin, right? Then you know that it is exactly what it says it is if you can measure it and you can test it and like ensure the accuracy.

Jamie (05:46)
Okay, so let's just say that I came, like, do you have a, you mentioned some health concerns and some mental health concerns or reasons that people would come seek out your services. So let's say I had, you know, I was struggling with depression or something and I came to see you. What does that transformation kind of look like? Like, can you give our listeners like an idea of the before and the after?

Julie Cyvonne (06:08)
Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to share my own personal journey. Because that's definitely what I came to the process of microdosing. In the first place, I really struggled with anxiety and depression for

Jamie (06:11)
Yeah, okay.

Julie Cyvonne (06:19)
decades. And my unique flavor of anxiety was really intense rumination, like looping. And also, I call it apocalyptic thinking where it's like everything is the worst case scenario. Like, you know, let's say you're my bestie. And you kind of say like, you use a period instead of an exclamation point in a text, right? I'm thinking, my god, she hates me. Like, she's mad at me. What's going on? Right? And it's, it's a hyper fixation on like worst case scenarios.

Jamie (06:40)
Okay.

Julie Cyvonne (06:44)
And I mean, my mind was not a fun place to be, honestly. And I would do things like party and you know, trying to binge on Netflix or eat food in order to quiet down the voice in my head because it was just so overwhelming and so oppressive.

And so through the process of micro dosing a few different rounds a few different protocols, right and then pairing that practice of micro dosing with intentional relearning. That's kind of what I was seeing. I was like, I've gone to therapy, I tried the prescriptions therapy, I felt very re traumatizing. Like every single week, she was telling me your dad died and your mom messed you up when you were little. And I was like, Congratulations, Deborah, do you want a cookie? Like, what what am I getting out of this? I could have like I came here and told you that now you're just parodying back at me. I want to do something with this information pros.

Jamie (07:19)
Thank

Yes.

Julie Cyvonne (07:27)
I I found to be very numbing right like so I did I do think like I needed it in that moment because my low was really low and so it kind of raised my baseline but then it really dulled the high is like as well there wasn't really any enjoyment my life was sort of in grayscale I felt like a zombie and That wasn't what I wanted either, but I didn't want to not feel anything I just wanted to be able to feel the less intensity of my sadness

And then I found a lot of relief from coaching. So I used to be an attorney. And I hired a coach at one point when I was practicing as attorney and in the pandemic when things are like more in flux and I was thinking, wow, I've been doing this for three years, I've done a few different practice areas, I just don't enjoy the work of being an attorney. I don't enjoy the lifestyle. So I signed up for a coaching.

training. And that was amazing. I got so much out of it. I feel like coaching has really forward focus. It's solution oriented, it felt really empowering. So I knew that I had done a lot of good work on myself. It wasn't like I you know, was just waiting for a magic pill to come change my life. But it felt like for whatever reason, despite my best efforts, my brain wasn't meeting me where like my effort was in terms of wanting to feel better. And I really got curious. Like, is that?

And so I discovered that certain people have really rigid brains, meaning the grooves in their brain, the connections, the neural patterning is really well-worn. So that is people with anxiety, depression, addiction, OCD, PTSD. It's like you're just defaulting to the path of least resistance over and over. And I think the clearest example of that is like addiction, right? You know, there's something that makes it really hard to say no to the drink or, you know, smoking or whatever it is for you. So,

Jamie (09:05)
Yes.

Julie Cyvonne (09:11)
I got really interested in that aspect of it decided to be my first guinea pig as I was delving into the research facilitation, all sorts of things. And I paired microdosing with intentional relearning tools. And that's been five years ago, and I don't have anxiety or depression anymore. I truly healed it at the root. And so I just wanted like people out there who feel like they have no other option but to

Jamie (09:23)
you

Julie Cyvonne (09:35)
know, take a pill or feel like I don't understand why none of this is working for me. Like there are other options available to you.

Jamie (09:41)
Okay, this is totally amazing to me. I did not know you were an attorney before, which I also think is like so key to the story because, A, when people have these like what would be considered a very noble and successful job in the eyes of, you know, the vast majority, and then they have this like life altering experience and then they completely forego their old life and start this new life. I'm always like, wow, that took a lot of courage. Like, I mean, you invest a lot of time, money, energy into...

becoming an attorney to just one day be like, I don't want to do that anymore. I want to do something else. Something that is like a little bit risque, I would say. Like it's not, it's not mainstream. It's not necessarily the easiest path. So I think that's like amazing. And I always love to hear that. The second thing is, is that you're now dabbling in something that

I always consider it to be illegal. can you talk to me a little bit about that? Cause like me as a total rule follower, I'm so interested in this. I want to have this experience. I want to have like a, I haven't considered necessarily microdosing, but more of like a grander scale, like a one time event. I don't know what you call that, but a friend of mine did it and she's like, it'll totally change your life. And I was like, man, that's really intriguing to me. So I thought about it a lot. And then I'm like, but isn't it illegal? Like what are your thoughts on

as an ex-attorney or someone who studied the law, what are your thoughts on that? For someone like me who's like, okay, I wanna do it, but isn't this illegal?

Julie Cyvonne (11:04)
Yeah, so just to circle back briefly before I fully answer your question. Like the larger experience is what people come to my retreats for. So I don't do that virtually. think it's really important to be guided and have someone there, you know, in person. I'm just seeing, you know, big feelings come up, and it's harder to walk to the bathroom and things like that. So it is something that I do in real life with people. And then when it comes to the legality, I was just having a conversation with

one of my business mentors and you we were talking about sort of the the jay curve or the hockey stick. I know you're in Canada of where we are right now with psychedelics, right? It's the same place we were with cannabis, I would say about 12 years ago where, you know, there's a lot of resistance to overcome and people's preconceived notions and the shifting landscape in terms of legalities. And I think we're right at sort of like the bottom of the jay curve as we're like coming up.

And I think it's soon going to take off just like cannabis did but right now I mean in the United States where I am it's really confusing. Because certain states so we have Oregon we have Denver or sorry, Colorado, parts of California. So Washington DC itself like you can go into dispensary and buy psilocybin microdosing gummies and things like that.

⁓ So it's not consistent but also, you know, we still face like inconsistency with federal versus state legislation around cannabis as well Ultimately, It is it's not a concern for me in my micro dosing practice because I don't sell distribute profit off of the sale of The capsules themselves. I have no interest in being in manufacturing I'm I'm

Jamie (12:16)
Okay.

Julie Cyvonne (12:37)
a guide. I'm a facilitator. And so in that way, like I feel very protected. And my retreat is a concern. So there's definitely a bedding process a to make sure that this is the right thing for you, right? So just thinking of a few things off the top of my head. If you experience schizophrenia, any sort of psychosis, bipolar that has like a strong, like manic episodes, this is not the right avenue for you. Simply because

Jamie (13:02)
Yeah.

Julie Cyvonne (13:04)
at end of the day, what psychedelics are doing are increasing neuroplasticity with it, which is neural modulation. And those diagnoses, they already experienced too much modulation, like the excess of modulation is what's like of entropy, right is what's like the issue. And so we don't want to add more fuel to the fire. So there's definitely a vetting process to make sure it's the right thing for people. And is it something I get concerned about? I mean, depends on the location of my retreat. Yes.

But I am very like discreet and now I mean, you can go on my website, you can see where they are, whatever, but like we'd have to talk, it would take a lot for someone to actually sign up essentially to know like fully what's happening. ⁓

Jamie (13:40)
What is your website? for... For sure. What

is your website for anyone who's listening who's like, ooh, this sounds like something I want to do?

Julie Cyvonne (13:49)
Yeah, Julie Savone calm. So j u l i e c y v o n n e.com there's an retreat page built out. I'll say it is a concern. But like I believe in it. I believe in this work. So wholeheartedly. I believe in it so much more. And I don't even I'm not like a big pharma conspiracist necessarily. But I will say pharmaceuticals don't heal anything. They're masking your symptoms. They're not making you better at least when it comes to SSRIs SNRIs things like that. And this is a true root cause healing.

And it is my life's work. I feel very passionate about it and like nothing's gonna stop me.

Jamie (14:21)
Okay, that's amazing. I love that. I love that passion and I love that fuel. So what are some of the biggest mistakes people make when they are starting a microdosing practice or even a retreat style kind of experience?

Julie Cyvonne (14:33)
So for retreats, I would say the biggest issue that I have with my field is that I'm the only person I know who has integration built into retreats. The psychedelic experience is beautiful. It's really eye opening. It is unlike anything else. And it's only 3 % of the work, right? It feels really easy and clear and empowering in the trip itself to say, I know that I need to quit this job that I get to stop

scrolling on my phone because my family and my children deserve my attention that this relationship I'm in is no longer aligned. Actually executing on the things embodying the changes that downloads the clarity you had in the trip is a whole other beast. is 97 % of the work and most people don't do it.

she was sharing with me about her friend who paid like so much to go to this like transformational blah, blah, blah, blah. And she said like, they just sent her home afterwards. And it was like 1000s of 1000s of dollars to do something, right? And then they um,

they just sent them home with no sort of support in the after. And it's like, what are you supposed to do with that? She said her friends that so just felt so discombobulated. She had to go do another one just to like get her head on straight and figure out what to do with the first one. And so that is my huge issue. I don't I don't see anyone else having built an integration in their retreat. So in my mind, if you want to pay for a retreat, and there's no built into integration, that's fine. But like just know you're paying for a very expensive recreational experience.

Jamie (15:47)
Yes.

Julie Cyvonne (16:04)
If you wanna have true change and transformation, make sure that your retreat includes that or you're seeking out some sort of facilitator afterward who specializes in integration that's gonna help you make sense of the experience. And then when it comes to microdosing, I mean, don't do it every day. Stop that. I mean, there's tons of protocols, right? There's protocols for creativity, there's protocols for anxiety in particular, there's protocols for treatment resistant depression or persistent pain.

So find the right protocol for you and then make sure you're doing something with it. This doesn't have to be some like grand, you know, I spent three hours in a holotropic breathwork practice every day while I microdose 15 minutes of journaling of prayer of mindful movement, go for a walk without your phone, something that's making the most of the increased neural modulation.

Jamie (16:53)
Okay, so if somebody is listening to this and they're like, okay, well, I don't necessarily have like full on depression or I don't neatly fit into any of the things, examples that you've used here today. Would you say that there's other reasons somebody might choose to microdose? Like do you have like an area of expertise outside of what you've already listed or a clientele base that's, know, has one kind of particular thing in common? Like is it for the people that are just kind of

feeling like the dull of everyday life or the mundane of everyday life? Or is it for only the kind of extreme cases where it's like, I'm fully depressed or I'm fully, you know, have this physical pain or something like that.

Julie Cyvonne (17:33)
Yeah, I like to say that if you're micro dosing for mental health, and that's all that you're doing with it to get relief like it's such a worthy cause right like that's why I started micro dosing and it's a it's life changing I there's no price tag on no longer having anxiety and depression. But it's also like buying a Ferrari and just driving to the grocery store like you're not you're not seeing the full picture of what's possible. I really enjoy working with high performing women who

Jamie (17:53)
Yes.

Julie Cyvonne (17:56)
are curious to know like how good can it get to make their brains work for them and not against them and to help create a life of inner satisfaction that matches the life that they've created in outer satisfaction whether that be you know where their business growth is or I know a lot of people who seem to like have this picture perfect life and they've come to the practice of microdosing that I just can't enjoy it. My mind isn't like they might not be

anxious or depressed or feel like they neatly within any of those categories, but there is a piece of them that like there's always on to the next thing. They're not present with their children. They feel like they need to have a glass of wine at night in order to just like take the day and you don't have to this isn't a judgment but you don't have to there's a way to actually enjoy life that doesn't require you know scrolling on Instagram or having that like third glass of Chardonnay. So I really enjoy working with women in that space.

Jamie (18:29)
Yes.

Yes.

Julie Cyvonne (18:47)
And I would say like my there's so much expansion possible with microdosing, right? It really is like mental health is just the tip of the iceberg. We're really just touching like a little bit of what's possible.

Jamie (18:54)
Yes.

Absolutely. And I feel like there's so much mental health. So much. The mental health is different than it was 20 years ago, 30 years, 40 years ago. Like we're dealing with a whole new beast with social media, isolation, COVID, online bullying. Like there's just a whole bunch of marketing. Like, I mean, the marketing that comes with social media and scrolling on our phones and things like that, that can really suck people out of their like, you know, happiness and into depression, anxiety.

you know, comparison, all of that. So I am so like fascinated by this and I'm so curious about your retreats and also microdosing. If somebody is listening and they're like, wow, I, this like totally sounds like something I do. So microdosing, you can do kind of like a digital experience with you or like an online experience versus an in-person and then retreats are strictly in-person or tell me a little bit about what that looks like.

Julie Cyvonne (19:46)
Yeah, so I do microdose. I microdose. Well, I support people through microdosing journeys in the US and Canada. One of my companies is a Canadian company. And that is virtual, right? There are some DIY options where you

one of my favorite things is a text program that I have. So you activate the text and you receive text every day for 30 days to help you integrate and maximize all of the neuroplasticity that's going on in your brain. And that was really around habit stacking. It's super cool. But there's also like if you really are looking for no, no, no, I want this like larger experience. I want to have live support live meaning like on zoom. I have very specific goals that I'm looking to

like cause and create then awesome. That's definitely an option too. And there some options in between but that is at this time I only have ever done that virtually I think

would be really cool to have a experience maybe like a one day experience people can come and if they really feel nervous to have microdose alone, which I just want to say there is no, no worry around that. I like to say for a lot of my ladies, if you're like feeling a little concerned, just wait and you can take your microdose when we start our first call and you'll see by the end of it, everything's still the same, you're totally fine. I think that could be really cool down the road, but my retreats are all.

in person. And they're small, they're only five women. This isn't like Rhythmia in Costa Rica.

Jamie (21:01)
How

Julie Cyvonne (21:02)
Every other month. So every other month, mostly in the US, although two next year, one in Costa Rica, one in Mexico.

Jamie (21:01)
How often do you do them? ⁓

Okay, are you comfortable sharing where in the United States in case there's listeners that are like, that's my state or I love to travel there.

Julie Cyvonne (21:17)
Yep. So um, I don't know when this is popping out. But November is going to be November is going to be in Scottsdale. This is the year 2025. Over New Year's in Costa Rica, March in Diamond Head, Mississippi. So that's like

like Florida, Alabama, those like really white beaches. That's why I picked that one. I have a lot of southern listeners who are like, I want to I want to have you have a retreat somewhere closer to me. So that's awesome. That one's in the beginning of March. I have Mexico, Puerto Escondido. And the beginning of May, Lake Tahoe at the end of July, Vermont for leaf peeping and the end of September 2026. And then San Diego next November, November 2026.

Jamie (22:03)
Okay, so you are really spread out. That's amazing. There's something for everyone, regardless of what side of the country you're on or what side you're interested in traveling to. So that is really cool. And if people want to find you, what is your Instagram handle?

Julie Cyvonne (22:08)
That's the goal.

Yeah, just Julie Savone just my name j u l i e c y v o n n e. I'm super happy to obviously I'm very passionate about talking about this or if you're like, you know, I'm curious, I don't know that I really want to like say anything to her you can DM me the word journey and many channels send you my free quiz to find out whether microdosing is a good fit for you at all. So that's totally an option for you. And I won't even know you can bypass the whole conversation.

Jamie (22:42)
I love that because there are people that are like, I kinda wanna do this in private. I don't want anyone to know that I'm inquiring about this. So that's a really cool option. Okay, my very last question for you is what is your proof it's possible moment? Like when did you realize like anything is, know, proof that anything is possible?

Julie Cyvonne (22:59)
I will say you're right. Like this has been a big departure from the law and it's a very hard it didn't I picked one of my mentors would say I picked a an industry with a lot of headwinds, there's a lot that I'm up against whether it be misinformation preconceived notions not clearly understanding that this is something that you

Jamie (23:11)
Yeah.

Julie Cyvonne (23:20)
like want or need a facilitator around and like what's possible with guided facilitated use. So it's challenging. But last year was my first year where that I was like in the I was in the green and I had a profit margin. Because it's difficult, it is difficult. And you definitely like get to invest in yourself in the business before sometimes you get proof that it's happening. So it felt really good to get there last year and think like, okay, like

Jamie (23:34)
What you doing?

Julie Cyvonne (23:48)
This is this is happening.

Jamie (23:50)
Totally. And it's not easy to be a trailblazer. It's not easy to go down a road that is not well traveled, you know? So kudos to you. That's amazing. And I am so excited to hear about all the life changing transformations that are in your future, including mine, because I will be joining you at one of your retreats, because I'm just fascinated by this. So we're so happy to have you on the podcast today. If anybody is interested in reaching out to her, she's given you some options.

Julie Savone and thank you until next time. Bye guys.