Activate Your Practice Podcast
The Activate Your Practice Podcast is hosted by the Chairman & Founder of Activator Methods, Dr. Arlan Fuhr. This podcast will cover a variety of subjects. Dr. Fuhr will interview guests from different backgrounds and professions, as well as talk about his 50+ years in chiropractic care.
Activate Your Practice Podcast
Innovating Chiropractic Education: Dr. Kris Petrocco-Napuli on Leadership, Interdisciplinary Collaboration, and Tackling the Opioid Crisis
Unlock the future of chiropractic education with insights from Dr. Kris Petrocco-Napuli, the pioneering first woman dean of Logan University. Discover her innovative vision for integrating chiropractic care into mainstream healthcare, especially as we tackle significant challenges like the opioid crisis. Dr. Petrocco shares her strategies for reaching underserved populations, including women, children, and the elderly, and emphasizes the power of interdisciplinary collaboration. Get inspired by her personal anecdotes on alternative pain management techniques, such as music therapy and mindfulness, and learn how these can transform patient care.
Dr. Petrocco’s leadership journey is nothing short of inspiring, underscoring the critical balance between toughness and fairness. With the unwavering support of her students, she has reshaped the landscape at Logan University, advocating for an inclusive and supportive academic environment. Listen as we explore the dynamics of leadership and the unique challenges faced by women in the chiropractic profession. This episode is a heartfelt gratitude to Dr. Petrocco for sharing her story and a nod to the remarkable impact of her leadership at Logan University.
Hello, my name is Dr Arlen Foer. I'm the chairman and founder of Activator Methods International. We want to welcome you to the Activate your Practice podcast today and we're very fortunate because we have the Dean of Logan University as the guest today, dr Chris Petrocco. Chris, welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, dr Ford. It's truly an honor and I'm so grateful to be here with you today, well you know, you're the first woman dean of Logan University and that's quite an achievement.
Speaker 1:And, by the way, dr Petrocco is a double doctor, she's a chiropractor and she also has a doctorate in education. So we're really proud of her and she does a great job at Logan, and I'm fortunate that I'm going to be able to ask her a few questions today. And I would like to start with how do you see the future of the profession from an academic standpoint?
Speaker 2:So, doc, that's a really great question. And you know, when we think about the individuals that we serve the public, that we serve the students that we're training to serve the public, I see the profession growing in a sense that it becomes more diverse in that population we're serving. And when we look at what we need to be doing as practitioners and how we're going to grow in that aspect, you know that's looking at different environments to work in. You know how well are we serving that geriatric population, how well are we serving the women of the public and the children and are we working functionally in interdisciplinary care and how can we collaborate better and stronger with different healthcare providers? So I really see the profession moving in that direction that we start to treat and care for all of those different populations in a much better way than we have in the past.
Speaker 1:I heard you say integrate and I think that's a good word because I think the chiropractic profession has grown enough that we can integrate. And I know your husband happens to be a VA physician and I started the VA chiropractic program here in Phoenix and it allowed us to work integrated into the medical profession. And you know what I found out and I'm asking you the same. I found that they were very accepting and as long as we did our job and kept our records clean and worked with them, we had no problem. Is Jason finding the same thing?
Speaker 2:And I think that's true Collaboration right, yes.
Speaker 2:And really being collaborative with those providers. And you know, one of the big things that I think happens frequently is that we forget that other providers aren't trained the same way that we are and so often they don't recognize what we do and how we do it and how we can support the patients that they're trying to care for as well. And so, you know, practitioners tell me all the time oh, chris, you know, I have a GYN in my town and they know exactly what I do and I say, but do they? And you know we for so long forget that that education piece for those providers is just as important as it is for our patients, so that they understand how to care. And you know, doc, you said something else about working collaboratively with practitioners.
Speaker 2:Working collaboratively with practitioners, and you know we've talked about so long the opioid crisis in our profession and how patients are utilizing opioids across the US. This is not a new conversation, not only for our profession but for all of the different populations. But the piece is when you think about the other providers. They were trained in that medical model and so they were trained to write a script. They were trained to give medical model, and so they were trained to write a script, they were trained to give a drug, and often they struggle with if I can't do that, then what's the next step?
Speaker 1:Very good point. I remember one day I was standing in the coffee line this was several years ago and the head of rheumatology walked up behind me and said Hi Arlan, how are you? And we're talking. And he said I hope you guys never leave. And I said what do you mean? And he said well, he says you know, we're only allowed to give so many class four narcotics, and then we don't know where to go. So he said this way, we just send them down to you. And so I said we're the dumping ground. And he started laughing and he said well, kind of. I said well, kind of. But I said well, what did you find out happens when you dump them on us? Well, he said, you know what Many of them get well, and he said so please never leave. And, by the way, you were right, I had to give him a lecture to 100 MDs to show them what we were doing, and afterwards they were very happy to ask questions and they just didn't know. And so you're exactly right.
Speaker 2:And I think it goes.
Speaker 2:Interestingly enough, I was a part of a group that worked on collaborative care with a pain grant that we received in the past, and there was a group of providers that came together and would talk about case studies and how do we prepare students and how do we prepare professionals to work collaboratively together.
Speaker 2:And there was a hematologist that was on this group and we started talking and she was talking to me about a sickle cell patient that she had and she said I never really thought about complementary and alternative choices for pain. And she talked about how the adolescents she was treating with sickle cell would have so much pain and she couldn't treat them in a way that would alleviate all of their pain. And so talking about not just what we do as chiropractic because we know that there's some contraindication for patients with sickle cell depending upon what their blood levels look like and those sorts of things but looking at other complementary things like music therapy or acupuncture or mindfulness, like music therapy or acupuncture or mindfulness, and thinking about mindfulness and whole health is another avenue that our profession really needs to be thinking about because that is becoming part of future mainstream health care.
Speaker 1:You know, when I was just starting there was kind of a thing going around that women when they graduate they never last more than seven years in practice because they got married and had children and then they were out of practice. Do you think that's holding today, or do you think we got new numbers?
Speaker 2:I think we have new numbers. I don't know what those numbers are, but you know, when we look at student enrollment, for instance at our institution, we recognize that there are more women entering into the chiropractic profession than ever before. You know, I often tell the story of when I entered into chiropractic college I'm going to date myself, you know, early in the 2000s, and we had the admissions counselor very proud of saying there's 20 women in this class. And you know me thinking back on that, thinking wow, that was such a small number in a class of 120 or 130. And we're watching our numbers change at our institution and again, we're not only just seeing that in the enrollment side of students but also in leadership.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it seems to me, as I've observed this whole thing, that the glass ceiling has been broken, if you will, and so women are rising. I mean, look, activator has a CEO that's a woman, so we've been way ahead of the game. But I see women, and, for example, I noticed it in Europe first, and there are 60, 40 women, and so that's where it really became obvious. So come back here. And so what do you think? Do you think there are more women than men now enrolled?
Speaker 2:Definitely we are seeing that enrollment trend changing, especially in the profession. You're seeing many more women step into academic leadership roles and really wanting to move the momentum of the profession forward as a contributor.
Speaker 1:I've seen, you know several. I can think of one right now, mctimoney College, and she has four different universities in four different countries and I think she's a disruptor. I call her because she's doing a good job of disrupting the way education is being done. Do you think that's happening in the US?
Speaker 2:I do think so. I do think so, and you know, I think that for so long, chiropractic has moved along incrementally, and now we've got many new thought leaders and perspectives, regardless of race or gender or ethnicity, and the diversity that's being brought to the table is much more significant than it was in the past.
Speaker 1:What's the big changes you see in the academic world?
Speaker 2:So the big changes you know being seen in the academic world is really truly serving our population of students. You know we've got great diversity in our population of students. We're starting to have much more diverse leadership across the profession and all of those really coming together are really shaping and forming how we're changing.
Speaker 1:What's the biggest innovation you see in chiropractic education?
Speaker 2:You know and you bring a really good point about innovation, doc. You know innovation. Our students are wanting to see much more technology. They're a much more contemporary mindset practitioner as they're entering into programs and Really thinking about the delivery of our education. Right, and how are we delivering curriculum and content? No more is going up to a blackboard and using a piece of chalk. The delivery method that students are needing, wanting and desiring and training that practitioner of the future becomes much more important and the level of technology and innovation is also really important to our programs.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, logan was one of the first to adopt the digital training like we put together in Activator and my wife, you know she's a strategist and she said you're going to have to do this digitally because one she said you're getting old. So she said you've getting old. So she said you got a lot of experience and you need it. It took, by the way, it took us three years to digitize everything that we had learned over 55 years, and she was right that we were able to get this across. And then the pandemic hit and Logan didn't miss a beat because all of their stuff was downloaded on their kid's computer and they took them home and they continued right on. And that was a hard thing to get across to the academic community because they didn't want to lose their jobs, quote unquote. But if they had thought about it much, they could use that technology and their job is safe. All they have to do is help organize it and get it out to the students and it wouldn't have been any loss to them at all.
Speaker 2:And Doc. I think that's such a great point about innovation and technique right what Activator has done for programs, especially training individuals in Activator methods. You know the student in particular has that opportunity to go through that virtual training and then be reinforced in the classroom with that hands-on technique and skill and that really changed the paradigm of how you can deliver technique and verify competency in students. And I think that competency piece it goes right along with safety.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's a blended program, as you say. You know they can and you know we found out because we had 150 instructors one time and we saw there was variation as much as we tried to stabilize it. But with digitizing it it comes from me and I'm the one that's saying it and if it's a mistake it's mine, and we were able to get it standardized then, and so then the college instructors a, and so then the college instructors. A kid would raise his hand and say that's not what it said, and you know they'd have to go check it and come back and say I made a mistake and it was good for them also. So I think you're right, it's a real innovation. What do you see on campus today compared to when you went to school?
Speaker 2:So you're asking me to date myself again, huh. So you know it is really different. I often tell students when they're coming into chiropractic college I'm very jealous. And I'm jealous because you know there's all this new technology. We've got the four sensing tables. You know you mentioned your innovation with Activator and how they can train in a virtual type setting and then be reinforced in the classroom. You know there's the anatomage tables that we have on campus that we never had as students, and so all of these really unique contemporary technology reinforcing all of that curriculum. It is really really fantastic and you know it's really changed the way that we deliver education to our students. You know, even talking about putting some of the curriculum online, you know, and you put coursework online and they can access lectures 24-7. You know, very different than pen and paper or you know, the chalkboard and taking notes. It's transitioned.
Speaker 1:And that's a good thing, I think, because then you've got standardization, and that's what we always look for, is standardize everything. So you're saying here's a practice in Phoenix and they're doing the same thing as a practice in New York.
Speaker 1:And you know, getting doctors to follow something is a very difficult thing because each one has their own idiosyncrasies, but once they find out something works, then they come back to it again, and so it makes us more standardized process. My last question, or observation, I guess I'd say, is when you were up for dean, one of the biggest supports, or two people, two different groups were supporting you. One was the faculty, which was understandable because you're part of the faculty, but the students students hardly ever go out and support the new dean. But you had that rare you know thing happening to you. Why do you think they were happy to support you?
Speaker 2:You know, doc, that's a really good question and I have to say that there's one thing, there's three things actually, not one thing, three really important things that drive me every day when I climb the hill at Logan, and that is obviously doing right by our profession and making sure that everything that goes on during the day supports what we do as a professional, as a chiropractor, and does good for the public. The other piece is really truly making sure that our students have the best educational experience they possibly can, and I absolutely love the students that come into Logan and I love our faculty and I know that sounds a little bit cheesy in that aspect, but the students are the future of our profession and I always tell them someday I'm going to want to retire and I hope that there's somebody out there that can do it better than me, and I hope that wishes for every single student that graduates from Logan, and that's how I start every single day.
Speaker 1:Well, it worked because the students were right behind you, hoping that you became the dean and, by the way, I know you well enough to know that you can be a hard ass too, and that's another side of the dean. But it straightens people out. But, as my wife will tell you, I say how do you get by with being tough like that? And she says I'm fair. And she said that's why Chris does really well, because she's fair.
Speaker 2:So Thank you, I appreciate that very much.
Speaker 1:Well, we had a great time here At least I did. And so Dr Chris Petrocco, the Dean of Logan University, thank you for coming and really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much for having me, and I hope we can do this again.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely Sounds great, Thank you.
