Activate Your Practice Podcast
The Activate Your Practice Podcast is hosted by the Chairman & Founder of Activator Methods, Dr. Arlan Fuhr. This podcast will cover a variety of subjects. Dr. Fuhr will interview guests from different backgrounds and professions, as well as talk about his 50+ years in chiropractic care.
Activate Your Practice Podcast
Dr. John Scaringe on Integrative Whole Health: Bridging Chiropractic Care and National Healthcare Initiatives
Ever wondered how an athlete's passion can shape the future of healthcare? Dr. John Scaringe, President of Southern California University, joins us to share his compelling journey from the world of sports to becoming a leader in chiropractic care. With roots dating back to 1911, SCU has transformed from a chiropractic college into a trailblazer in multidisciplinary healthcare education. Dr. Scaringe discusses the pivotal role of integrative, whole health approaches in healthcare, as well as his efforts to seamlessly incorporate chiropractic care into the Veterans Administration. This conversation sheds light on the evolution of patient-centered care and its alignment with national healthcare initiatives.
Join us as we uncover the intricacies of building innovative health programs, including the launch of high-cost educational ventures like physician assistant programs. Dr. Scaringe provides insights into the challenges of navigating accreditation processes and fostering a unified vision among faculty and alumni. We also explore how SCU is cultivating a collaborative and respectful environment by integrating diverse health professions. Discover how various entities, from private clinics to corporations, are adopting whole health practices to achieve healthier and more satisfied communities. This episode is an enlightening exploration of the fusion between conventional and complementary medicine for holistic patient care.
Hello, this is Dr Arlen Foer, the Chairman and Co-Founder of Activator Methods International. I want to welcome you this morning to Activate your Practice, because today we have the honor of having Dr John Scringe, who is the President of SCU, southern California University, and so we're welcoming him today and you're going to have a great podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Arlen. It's quite an honor to be here and I appreciate the invitation.
Speaker 1:Tell me what led you to become a chiropractor.
Speaker 2:Thank you, that's a great question. I'd be happy to you know tell a little bit about my story. My brothers and I have been, you know, athletes all through, you know, grade school, high school and college even. And whenever we were injured we would go to our chiropractor. And my bachelor's degree was in health and physical education. And so I also coached in the high school level and I was kind of the de facto athletic trainer, because during my undergraduate I took several athletic training courses and I really enjoyed that interaction of trying to figure out the injury and doing some, you know treatments and rehab and things like that.
Speaker 2:And so I got into chiropractic to work with athletes and early in my career I would volunteer quite a bit at athletic events and when you're volunteering you're doing that as a passion, right, you're not getting paid, and it might be, you know, some national events or local events, and at those events I'd be working with other healthcare practitioners that are volunteering because they love it. It would be medical doctors, athletic trainers, massage therapists, emergency technicians all these different individuals and we relied and worked on and worked with each other for one purpose and one purpose only with that athlete and that patient at the center of all our decisions. So this network that I built early in my clinical practice was this team-based care. We learned from each other, we focused on the patient and I carried those principles and those values that led to this integrated, patient-centered, team-based care that just parlayed into really our core approach and paradigm at SEU.
Speaker 1:Now you're the president of Southern Cal University, and so tell us a little bit about Southern Cal.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, we were founded as a chiropractic college back in 1911, long before the profession was widely accepted. So we've always been an institution that is not afraid of challenging convention. It's kind of in our DNA and we've experienced recently some amazing growth. Over the last five to six years Our degree and certificate enrollments have more than doubled and we have enjoyed excess revenues every year without any debt debt. So that's really resulting from our three legacy programs, which we call them legacy programs because there were chiropractic, our acupuncture and herbal Chinese medicine program and then our physician's assistant program. Those were kind of our three traditional programs. So we've enjoyed some growth in those, but also growth and investments in new programs and currently we're bringing in or we're launching about two to three new programs a year at this particular point. So over the last decade or so we've become one of the few institutions that offer degrees in a wide range of both conventional mainstream medicine and complementary disciplines all under one roof. So the programs we offer are like the Doctor of Chiropractic, obviously, masters and Doctorate in Acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine.
Speaker 2:We have our beta certificates, we have a bachelor's in health science, our master's in physician's assistant and our master's of science in medical sciences and a doctor of medical sciences, which is a brand new degree that we just launched and that's the next degree that physicians, assistants, earn. And then our occupational therapy. We have a master's in human genetics and genomics and then our brand new doctor in whole health leadership. So this January we're launching our doctor in occupational therapy there in Arizona your hometown or home state and in the fall of 2025, we'll offer a master's of science in genetic counseling and a doctor of physical therapy and genetic counseling and a doctor of physical therapy. And I think what's a little unique is that we teach students in every discipline to blend the best of both worlds and to treat the whole mind, body and spirit for the best possible patient outcomes, for the best possible patient outcomes. So that's really SCU and we got some exciting major initiative coming up around whole health as well.
Speaker 1:Why do you call it integrative, whole health?
Speaker 2:You know, all the research shows that treating the whole person and not just the symptoms is a far superior approach and I think you know, as our chiropractic colleagues out there you know, understand that deeply right, that's really, you know, in our DNA, right, as chiropractors, this whole health approach yields, you know, exponentially better outcomes at much lower costs. So health care leaders I think we've we've heard from the US Surgeon General to the National Institute of Health, to the National Academies of Science, engineering and Medicine are all calling for these health care systems to move in this direction. So we're answering that particular call. In fact, the National Academy's publication is entitled Achieving Whole Health a New Approach for Veterans and the Nation. And the reason why they mentioned veterans because of the VA. Veterans and the Nation. And the reason why they mentioned veterans because of the VA. Dr Tracy Gaudet, who led the whole health movement within the Veterans Administration, our largest, you know, healthcare delivery system in the nation, is the executive director of our new Doctor of Whole Health Leadership, which just launched this past month.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I got my first look at integrative health at the VA, because I was involved in that getting the VA, you know, getting chiropractic in the VA. And I remember going to Washington because we had one co-sponsor left and it was John McCain. And of course, john McCain, he was the veteran of veterans and I remember walking in his office and met with one of his staff and they said it's too controversial, this is never going to get in. So just as we were talking, john McCain walked in the door and I said Senator McCain, I'm Dr Fore from Phoenix and I'm a constituent and I would like to know if you'd like to hear a sea story. And this is Navy talk now.
Speaker 1:And there's not a sailor alive that won't stop and listen to a sea story. And I told him about. Well, I was on a minesweeper and we had gone over on Liberty and we came back and our ships were gone. It was the Cuban Missile Crisis and we didn't know that at the time. But all our ships and we got on them the next morning and we left south. We didn't know where we were going and we hit rough weather and if you know anything about a minesweeper, it's all wood, so it's like a cork, it bobs around. Know anything about a minesweeper? It's all wood, so it's like a cork, it bobs around.
Speaker 1:And I looked up and the captain just stepped off the captain's chair and slipped on the deck and fell. And so we got him up and he said four, aren't you a chiropractor? And I said, yes, sir. He said well, then do what you do, because I can't really walk. And so, long story short, we went down to his rack and give him an adjustment and he gets up off the rack and says the pain's gone Now. He said I can tell you what we're doing. We're going into Guantanamo Bay tomorrow morning to take the mines out, to get the USS Ranger out. And I'm like, oh, that sounds really fun. But Senator McCain looked at me and he said if you hadn't been on the bridge and you hadn't adjusted him, he may not have been on the bridge. And the next day I said yes, sir, that's possible. He said co-sponsor the bill and that was the last person that signed that bill on.
Speaker 1:So that's why I know a little bit about integrative care, because I then started it at the Phoenix VA Carl T Hayden VA hospital and it was the first time I'd ever been an integrated source and I had a couple of young doctors that I had working for me and I told them I want you to do the best records, I want you to do the best of everything you can do, because you're going to be watched by the medical profession. There are 200 doctors there, and so I understand what you're talking about when you say whole health, because it was my first time to see how it worked together with people. And you know, honestly, I had one patient that was on 35 active medications when I started taking care of him. Two years later he was on one and he was in rehab. So that was my experience on integrative health. Now, you know, I think we've been practicing I guess you'd call it natural health for years, haven't we as chiropractors? And so what's new now?
Speaker 2:You know, whole health just isn't another name for integrated health and it's getting attention now, as I mentioned. You know, nationally, and just like any other, I guess, paradigm, there are similarities to different approaches. So, yes, many, as you mentioned, many chiropractors and other healthcare providers have been approaching patient care using the principles of whole health for years. But integrative health care is not necessarily whole health care. You and your listeners, you know, may have heard the phrase it's not what is the matter with our patients, but what matters to our patients. And typically a physician may ask, or a practitioner may ask, what brings you in today, and the patient may respond, you know, as you know, my back hurts, I have headaches, and then that provider will continue to ask questions about that chief complaint. Whole health kind of flips that script a little. It starts with what is the patient's purpose and what really matters to them, and motivational interviewing, where many of our listeners across many different disciplines know what that is, which is taught many of our chiropractic programs and colleges, is the first step towards that whole health paradigm Not what is the matter with you, but what matters to you right now. Right now it's not just, you know, to get you out of pain, but to to dig deeper, to to say, oh, you want to run a marathon, you know, or, or you want to lose weight. But why do you want to lose weight? Right, it's to improve my health, so I can live long enough to spend many years with my grandchildren whatever it is Right, children, whatever it is right. So the next step after you, you know, discover what that person's purpose is is where integrative healthcare comes in. That's, you know, integrating all different professions, you know, across the aisles, like mainstream, conventional, or conventional or or or integrative professions, right, and that's the clinical care and the self-care components of of whole health. And, and then that third layer really is is community. And and these may involve our, our peer groups, our support groups, spiritual or religious communities and other you know, community resources, and I think we all understand and know the power of what peers have, right, they've walked in your shoes and the message that is there of hope or support that they will be there with you through this particular journey, whatever that journey is. So those are some components of what whole health is, and integrative health is a part of that. And I think the final and most important component for any type of transformational change specifically to whole health is building a system around these principles, which is them on how to make change within their systems around whole health. So so, for example, I come from a sports medicine background and I think Medicine community is an ideal example of of whole health.
Speaker 2:We often understand the athlete's goal or purpose right to win a championship, you know. Make the varsity team be an Olympian, you know. And there's this army of healthcare providers, from medical doctors, chiropractors, acupuncturists, massage therapists, athletic trainers, nutritionists, sports psychologists you name it right and we build systems around this athlete's purpose. From pro sports teams, they have a system of sports medicine around them in departments, college athletics, the Olympics, the national governing bodies of these particular sports, nationally and internationally. And while we didn't necessarily use the term whole health when treating these athletes, back in the time when I got into it, that's exactly what we were doing starting with what really motivates that individual and addressing not just the physical but also the psychological lifestyle and other variables that are impacting that particular athlete's performance.
Speaker 1:So chiropractic is part of whole health.
Speaker 2:Well, I think anybody can be part of whole health Individuals can. I think the whole health movement, though, is finding that person's meaning and purpose and not just look at them as a low back or a diabetic down deep into what is it that they really want to achieve. And then it's working with those integrative teams and what's available for that patient and a patient-centered approach, and then building these systems around it right, and I think chiropractors not all of us and other practitioners have taken and do practice amongst that, but to be part of the system. I think, you know, chiropractors have a wonderful role to play, maybe not just leading teams, but also being a part of those teams and bringing that perspective into that patient care component of of the whole health paradigm.
Speaker 2:So, in your opinion, the VA is. They have it started as a demonstration project and they have embraced it. Now you know it's such a large system and they have regions and they have multiple you know facilities and within those those regions and some are doing you others, but it is this paradigm of really focusing what matters to that veteran and building their whole system around it, including their reward systems for their staff and clinicians. So it's not just about the patient, it's about a whole health approach for everyone in the system.
Speaker 1:Are there a lot of private clinics out there right now that are doing the whole health concept that are doing the whole health concept.
Speaker 2:I think you will have a lot of clinics that are embracing that. But if they're not part of the community system or a closed system like the VA is a closed system, right, so they're able to move. I think there's other closed systems out there. I think that can embrace the whole health concepts Corporate, right, the self-insured right. So let's take some system that's already want to empower and take care of their employees, right, that they want a healthy and satisfied workforce. An insurance company could care less if they're satisfied, right, but an employer wants a healthy and satisfied workforce.
Speaker 2:So there's other communities even out there. There's other communities even out there, municipalities, the Blue Zone they've taken a Blue Zone. So there's these communities at high readiness that I think would embrace some more of these principles. So you have a Blue Zone community. They already are starting to, you know, put green spaces, areas and where people can exercise those types of things. But, you know, take it a step further. Bring everyone together. Bring those clinics right that you speak of into discussions, bring the religious organization, bring the nonprofits, bring the municipality programs, bring the Department of Health in that community and work together to create what that whole health community would look like.
Speaker 1:Do you think that most chiropractic colleges are branching out now into other disciplines?
Speaker 2:I do. I see more of my colleagues and more of the profession that you know have embraced this. You know this integrated, you know team-based care approach and said let's bring these in and we're just trying to take it a step further into, you know, our whole community. So, you know, at SCU we've been moving towards this whole health principles in our clinic system and our aha moment, you know, was during the discussions around employee benefits and I was like saying, well, you know, if we're going to redo all employee benefits, what you know, how do we approach this with our patients. You know, if we're going to look at this integrated whole health approach, and that was my aha moment. And you know how do we play a part in which health for our students, faculty and staff to both pursue what's important to them and support them through that whole health paradigm.
Speaker 2:So we developed seven focus areas or domains, with standards under each, all of those areas, and we believe, like all those areas, you must institutionalize those through our structures, our processes and our reward system and it needs to be communicated and everyone needs to experience it what a whole health is and it must be routinely assessed as that, you know, close the loop with the quality assessments.
Speaker 2:So where we're at now it's brand new. So you know, we're just it's iterative for us. We're just moving forward. We established seven domains and those related standards. We conducted a self-evaluation and launched a plan to close those gaps where we weren't coming up to snuff on those standards that we created and we began implementing the whole health approach in our SCU health centers and clinics. We're launching a comprehensive orientation and whole health experience for all our staff, faculty and students. We're appointing a chief whole health officer. We eventually will hopefully we'll launch that this year, if not next launching a center for whole health education and training and I already mentioned we launched the doctor of whole health leadership degree program. So those are our steps towards that and we're hoping that other universities, not just health science related universities, but all universities, will want to catch on to what a whole health university paradigm is.
Speaker 1:Well, it's very interesting and you made a statement earlier that I thought was very interesting. You said you have launched these new programs. They take some time to you know, initiate and get going, that you're debt-free and you don't spend more money than you have to get these programs launched. How much time does it take, like just a PA program, for example? How much time does that take to launch and become profitable?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question when we launched it and now to get in the queue you're waiting longer. But it's similar to many of these what we call high-cost, high-barrier programs. What we call high cost, high barrier programs, and what I mean by high barrier it's there's an accreditor that it's taking several years for you to apply, that you'd like to start a new program, and then they put you in a queue and they can. Sometimes, you know you can wait from three to five years from when you start the process. So that's a high barrier and high cost is you're investing, you know, quite a lot of resources prior to even sitting your first student student. So when we launched, you know we were looking at, close to you know, a million dollars in, or 750 to a million dollars in in program costs before the new, the students even came into that new program.
Speaker 2:You're hiring your director at a certain time, right, or your program director. Then there's your principal faculty that you need to start hiring a certain time before so that you can start developing your program, starting to write your first self-study for the accreditor, and then, as you get closer and closer, you're hiring more individuals. You need to find rotations for those students. So you need to reach out and you have to hire somebody to reach out to hospitals and clinics and other offices and get agreements signed, which is kind of tough when you're starting a program, because not only is the program three years away, right, they may not be rotating through those until a year after the program even launches. So you're four or five years away when you start looking for those particular sites for the rotation. So it does take a lot of resources and commitment from the board, from the other faculty, from all your support offices, and everyone needs to be you know, they need to buy in and they need to be rowing all in the same direction.
Speaker 2:Once we started the infrastructure, that's the other thing. To do this right. Every new program we bring in is a new accreditor, okay. So now we're getting you know, accreditation visits, you know, much more frequently than if we just had one or two programs. This fall we had three, three, you know, site visits. Yes, we have two, we have two in the spring, we have two in this in in the spring. So you have to have, you know, an infrastructure to be able to, you know, continually to bring these programs on. And it's, you know, it's a commitment from from everyone, from the board chair all the way down to you know our facilities, people people.
Speaker 1:I guess if, from what I've heard here, if I was a university president, I'd put you as a consultant, I'd hire you because you've gone through it. But you know, I see what you're doing step by step and I think that if universities are interested in that, they do well to get some counseling on this before they get off on a program, because you can save them a lot of time and money.
Speaker 2:Well, you know we've. You know I've spoken to several of my colleagues who are moving down this path and have shared, you know, my experiences. You know with them as well. But you know, when I set out to do this, this isn't something that you do overnight, it's, it's a long strategic plan and you know there's there's also change management that comes with that and I don't you know, I'm not telling any anybody to. You know, take any change management strategy over another, they, they tend to be about this. You know the same components, but you know I, I took a change management strategy. I looked at, you know, I think, a compelling vision to, to move into, you know, this integrated whole health concept. And, um, you know you have to motivate and you have to inspire people to be, uh on, on the same page. And, um, you know it's, it's um, messy at times and you need to expect, you know, that mess, but you try to mitigate as many of those deterrents as you can and keep on the path forward.
Speaker 1:Lastly, did you have any problems with the chiropractic alumni thinking it was going from a chiropractic college to you? Know, not a chiropractic college.
Speaker 2:You know that is such an insightful, you know question. We did, you know I think there were. You know some that you know, I don't know my. My glass tends to be half full and and not half empty, and I would get people saying when they heard I was bringing, you know, the physician's assistant program, which I think was you know, it was a very strategic move for us because we saw where they were going to be the first contact of of many types of specialties, not just in primary care, and and thought, well, let's train them alongside our chiropractors and acupuncturists so that, you know, they understand us. And if the insurance company or the system they're in already have chiropractors or or acupuncturists as a resource, they would be more apt to refer to that.
Speaker 2:So, as far as alums and other chiropractors, what came to me is well, why are you bringing this physician's assistant program? Don't you think that those chiropractors would want to become physician's assistants now? And my response was why do you think that they're going to influence our chiropractic students in a negative fashion and not our chiropractor students influencing the physician's assistant students in a positive fashion? And that's what we found. I mean, you know, we're not making chiropractors physicians assistants. That's a different profession. We work together with that and those students that come into our chiropractic program want to become chiropractors and respect all the other professions that they learn with. And that's the same with the occupational therapy students we have, the physician's assistant students we have. They're all appreciating, respecting and understanding what role the chiropractor and the acupuncture and Ayurvedic practitioners can bring to a healthcare team.
Speaker 1:I think, through all the things we've talked about here, the one thing that's sticking with me now is what matters to the patient. To me, that's a critical thing to pay attention to, and so I want to end on that. But I want to thank you because I said if I was a university president, I'd be calling you right now for a consulting fee because I want to have your experience in the process that I think has been so valuable. So you've been out there way ahead, john, and I really want to thank you for coming out to activate your practice, because there's going to be a lot of people listening to this and I think you've given great insight.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, earl. I appreciate the kind words and it's going to sound like a cliche a strong team and a core faculty and staff to really support and believe in the vision. None of this would happen. So I appreciate your kind words.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, and we'll be looking forward to coming over. You know we have a great activator program at SCU and I love your dean, dr Anna Faconato. I've known her for years and you picked a great one there. And Dr Capon is doing a lot for our activator program so we're happy to be involved with you.
Speaker 2:We appreciate you. Thank you very much for all you do.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Thanks everybody, for tuning in to Activate your Practice.
