Architecture for kids podcast with Melissa Woolford Founder and Director Museum of Architecture

Our projects showcase architects' creativity by turning something familiar into extraordinary experiences that inspire imaginative thinking about what the built environment can be.

Transcript

UNKNOWN: 0:00

you

SPEAKER_01: 0:09

Hello and welcome to another episode of Architecture for Kids podcast. I'm your host, António Cablón. I'm a trained architect, an architectural educator and founding director of award-winning Architecture for Kids CIC. In this podcast, I'm going to talk to practitioners and creatives that share the same passion as I do, to inspire and to engage children and young people to shape their built environment and the creative industries. The podcast is brought to you in collaboration with the Built Environment Trust, the Thornton Education Trust and the Wells School of Architecture, Cardiff University. My guest today is Melissa Wolfert. Melissa is the founder director of the Museum of Architecture, which started in 2006 to help support architects to be more entrepreneurial and help the public to better engage with architecture. Melissa has created exhibitions such as the Gingerbread City that has been called STEM meets suites, sandcastles and well-built, and has initiated innovative programming such as the Museum of Architecture Directors and Associates Clubs to share best practice in the industry. She started a school for creative thinkers in 2019, offering subscription boxes, kits and workshops to teach young people about design through nature. She is also the founder-director of News Collaborative, an agency that specializes in bringing architecture and the creative industries together with brands. Under clients include the Wild Turkey Bourbon, Dove, Ocean Spray and the Delfina Foundation. Melissa has lectured on new business strategies for the built environment at institutions including Harvard Graduate School of Design, the Bartlett and Loughborough University. She has also worked for Zaha Hadid Architects between 2006 and 2009. Melissa, thank you for coming to talk to me today and I'm looking forward to our conversation.

SPEAKER_00: 2:08

Hi, thanks so much for having me today.

SPEAKER_01: 2:10

What was your favorite subject at school and what were you good at?

SPEAKER_00: 2:14

My favorite subjects at school were history. I actually ended up going to university as a history major first off. But when I started taking the exams, even though I really enjoyed the subject matter and the teachers and learning about it, I had absolutely a horrible memory for dates. That wasn't very useful as a historian. So I realized very quickly on I needed to switch. And I always had an interest in art and architecture. I even took some architecture courses when I was in high school. And I really enjoyed So you are a New Yorker? Yes. Have you been learning law? I've been in London for 17 years. I first came over to work for Zaha Hadid and I thought I'd only be here for a year or two, but obviously that has now turned into 17 and two kids later and multiple, multiple moves. I am still here and really love in London.

SPEAKER_01: 3:16

What was it like to work with Zaha Hadid?

SPEAKER_00: 3:17

I looked at it as a second grad school. I made so many amazing friends there, so much support, and it really allowed me to start the museum. I had amazing people I was working with and working for who really saw that This was my drive and my passion and were really encouraging about the work I was doing outside of the office. But the work inside the office was really interesting as well. I was doing a lot of designs with Maya because that was something that I had learned in grad school. And so I was working on bars and all the way down to different pieces of jewelry and furniture. So I had some kind of quite interesting projects that were short term, which was really good for me. So I got to see a lot of things realized while I was there.

SPEAKER_01: 3:58

How did the Museum of Architecture start?

SPEAKER_00: 4:00

The Museum of Architecture started I started two weeks after I joined Zaha's office because I realized actually this is not what I wanted to do. So I needed to figure out how to get out. But I was there for three and a half years. I really used my weekends and my lunch times. And I started a pop-up gallery with two friends in the front room of one of those friends' flat. So I had my first exhibition there. And basically from that point on, people said, come on, Melissa, keep going. And it was encouragement, again, from sort of the community that I had around me. You know, these two friends that I was working with at the time were, again, very supportive. And I ended up doing lots of pop-up exhibitions. And originally, it was called Naus Gallery. And it was about sort of a collective and about us. And so it was about architecture. And my original intent was to actually sell architectural work and open up a gallery of architecture. But I was young in my early 20s, had no context in, let's say, the art world, art buying world in London. And obviously, that didn't take off. But then what I ended up doing was starting a consultancy called Naus Collaborative, which allowed me to run projects and actually leave Zaha's office because I was able to make some income myself. And so that entailed looking at, I ran an architecture competition for Wild Turkey Bourbon to design a new visitor center there. And these architects, Daily Autumn Primer, who originated in Harvard, had moved down to Kentucky and were working and they were part of the architecture competition and won it. And their design increased visitor numbers by 100% to the distillery. And the design won the AIA award for that state that year. I was able to prove that architecture actually made a difference in terms of the brand and its identity. And so I came back to London to try to figure out how I could work with other brands in that same way. But I really struggled because experiential design wasn't really a thing at that point. It was sort of almost too early. Nobody knew what box to put me in. So I sort of struggled for a little while. But I did manage to work with some other brands. So I worked with Dove, the soap brand. I ran some workshops for them both in London and New York looking at the soap bar. And interestingly, ways and so brought together different designers from different industries. And we looked at that and it was very creative. It was eye opening for the people working at Dove because they'd never thought about the bar in these particular ways and really excited them. But again, how do you sort of manifest this in the real product or in real life? And these ideas were very creative, but it didn't actually end up being transformed into something. Again, it slightly hit a dead end in terms of the design process with regards to them. Then I was thinking, okay, well, what next? Where do I go next with this? And that's when I thought, okay, I've been working with brands now for a little bit. How do I use this knowledge about understanding what brands want and what brands do and how they work and actually turn that into something for the work that I wanted to be doing, which was these exhibitions and installations and working with architects and really getting architecture out there to the public. So that's when I founded the Museum of Architecture.

SPEAKER_01: 6:53

What happens at the Museum of Architecture? We've been doing it for

SPEAKER_00: 6:55

seven years. From the beginning, yes. We never stopped sort of running exhibitions. We changed the name in 2012 from 2006 to Museum of Architecture from Now's Gallery, but basically they've been running. So we don't have a permanent space, but we end up collaborating with various different institutions or using public spaces in order to do the exhibitions that we do. One of our biggest exhibitions is the Gingerbread City, which moves around London in different locations. We've worked with the V&A and Somerset House, but we've also done it in empty shopfronts as well. The Gingerbread City is an entire city made out of gingerbread designed by architects, everyone from Zaha Hadid and Fosters down to sort of middle-sized practices even one man band. So it's a really great way for the architecture community to come together and showcase their creativity to a wider public. So the whole point of Gingerbread City is to educate people about what architecture is, what architects do, and to talk about specific themes around architecture. So every year, Gingerbread City has a different theme. Some years it's rewilding, or last year was around climate zones. How do we build in different climate zones? What are the things we need to consider, such as the building materials or sourcing locally? What do we do in those specific areas? And so we're able to talk about those key messages, but through a medium that is really fun and accessible to everyone like gingerbread.

SPEAKER_01: 8:07

When did you think about this? Because it's quite an amazing thing.

SPEAKER_00: 8:09

I was in the US and I visited a, let's say, Christmas exhibition in Cape Cod, where my parents are from. And on display were three gingerbread structures designed by bakers. And they were like sort of dollhouse size. And I was like, well, these are good. But gosh, wouldn't it be really interesting to see a gingerbread house designed by an architect? And I thought, why stop at one building? Why not have an entire city of gingerbread designed by architects. And I had sort of that epiphany moment. I said, right, next year, this is exactly what we're going to do. And it's been really amazing to see the support that the architects give as well, because year on year, a lot of the practices come back. It's now become an annual tradition for the architecture practices as well as the visitors. So obviously we couldn't do it without the amazing practices and all of their creativity and designs. And I'm really grateful that they're really behind the project and they see it as a way of really helping the public engage with architecture.

SPEAKER_01: 8:59

That was what was going to be my question is, How was it to tell the idea to the architect?

SPEAKER_00: 9:03

I think, you know, maybe it's people who thought I was a bit crazy and probably still think I'm a bit crazy. But when the initial group saw what happened the first year and how maybe 16,000 people come through the door the first year and they realized the value and the excitement that it brought to people. And it was a way of talking about architecture to audiences who would never engage with architecture. They wouldn't necessarily go to an architecture exhibition or they've never been introduced to it. A lot of people don't even know what architects do. They think that they're builders. It's just a great way to start that conversation and and really explain to people what architects do, and also to obviously offer to children an opportunity to see it as a career, and especially if they're creative, and that there are other opportunities for them within the built environment, not just architecture, but engineering and planning. So we've got all those elements incorporated into Gingerbread Cities. It's a really great introduction.

SPEAKER_01: 9:50

As you were speaking, it just came to mind, the Royal Academy Summer Show, and there's a room for architects, and it's the emptiest room of the exhibition.

SPEAKER_00: 9:57

It's sad that people maybe, you know, walk through it, but again, I think people are drawn to the models of the exhibition. I think if anything, it really stands out as the models that people love sort of looking at and seeing all the details because it makes sense to them. And if they don't know how to read a drawing, if they don't know how to read slightly more theoretical text, a model is something that they can understand, which is why I think Gingerbread City works so well because it is a city of models. And obviously many people have throughout the years signed gingerbread houses themselves. So they know how hard it is. So I think they do appreciate all the work that goes in by the architect.

SPEAKER_01: 10:28

One of your interests of bringing this exhibition together was it educational or what was your target audience

SPEAKER_00: 10:34

target audience of the museum of architecture is to engage the public with architecture and that is our key theme it's always our theme but it needs to be accessible that another strategy that we use and looking at what do people somewhat familiar with but maybe you know is another sort of tool or way for them to engage with architecture with something that is not completely foreign or something that they don't think that they will necessarily be interested in for example our other projects that we've done and we put sand castles designed by architects across public spaces, Duke of York Square in front of the Design Museum and up in Notting Hill. We do other pavilions, the Wooden Parliament Pavilion, which we did with Finca, and that was up on Granary Square and King's Cross. And all these projects, including our upcoming project, which is Tree Houses with Kew Gardens, is another way, again, of just using your imagination, using the creativity, but making it something that all generations can access and are interested in seeing, but obviously with an architecture twist, which makes them much more sort of creative. And you can tell the stories around architecture and the themes that architects are talking about, but again, to a more general public.

SPEAKER_01: 11:40

Tree houses and Kew Gardens. Can we talk a little bit more about that?

SPEAKER_00: 11:43

We're really excited to be working on our upcoming project, Tree Houses at Kew. We're working with Kew Gardens. They've been an absolutely amazing partner to be working with. We ran a competition last year and three practices based in the UK won, which was really exciting. And we're We're excited to see these projects come to life. Definitely an interesting project that will definitely engage the public with architecture in a fun and exciting way. You'll be able to go up into these tree houses, experience them. They're all very different, and I can't wait to see them come to life.

SPEAKER_01: 12:16

You also set up the School for Creative Thinkers that engages children, particularly young people, diverse ways. Tell us more about kind of that aspect of them.

SPEAKER_00: 12:26

On the back of the Gingerbread City family workshops that we run, people get to asking us what do we do for the rest of the year and we came up with Nature's Architects as our first programming and this is all around learning about architecture through biomimicry and through nature and we run a series of workshops looking at different animals and plants and insects and how they influence design and we've also created a series of seven kits that people can buy and take home and do the activities at home but that include a magazine and the materials to make the different structures and the thing for us is that this is not like taking a ladybug and just putting the black spots on it this for us is about teaching young people about particular method of building so for example with birds birds build nests and that's a sort of form of weaving and so what we do is we teach people through the magazine about all the different types of nests around the world that the birds build so they can see there's different sort of design of birds nests in the wild and then we show how architects have then been influenced by weaving and so we show structures that have some woven design within them and so there's examples of design and then we give them the materials to be able to weave their own structure but there's no directions on sort of the right or wrong way of doing it so every outcome is unique and it's unique to the child it's unique to their experiences unique to some of their creativity and their imaginations we want to encourage people's independence and their self-confidence with these particular projects that nothing is wrong like everything is right because it's just what they've done and what they've come up with it's a really great way again teaching the people about the built environment but doing it through nature is something that they're familiar with and so that you can make it more accessible and we also have free programming as well you can download various different activities from the website and we had done even nature's architects trail actually last summer with cadogan we worked on a trail commission architects to design 20 different structures across pavilion road and duke of york square and that was again in the public space a really great way having people just come across these architects installations and again teaching people about architecture in a public space. It's all free and it's an opportunity for them to learn while they're just passing by. So I think having architecture out in public spaces is really important because if they're not necessarily going to go to see an architecture exhibition, it's important that they have an opportunity to come across it and learn something, especially young people.

SPEAKER_01: 14:51

Your role in the Museum of Architecture, are you also involved in the pedagogic side of things or your more business side?

SPEAKER_00: 14:57

As any small organization is, it's a bit of everything But no, I also work with an amazing team of people who also definitely, you know, come up with ideas and are very creative. And all of us together come together to do these projects.

SPEAKER_01: 15:10

That brings me to the next question. What are the challenges?

SPEAKER_00: 15:13

Lots of challenges. One being, you know, trying to get everything done with a small team. You know, everyone works quite hard on various projects. And I think also the sort of the funding and the support from external sources. I definitely think architecture struggles to get the supportive needs in order to do the outreach. It's amazing how many organizations we actually do have in London who are doing this outreach for young people and these activities and activations, but there just isn't enough support. I mean, we would love to do more, but, you know, we need the resources to be able to do that and that resources for people, resources for materials. I think that definitely is one of the challenges and just time, you know, as well.

SPEAKER_01: 15:49

In terms of the receptiveness of your project, people are quite receptive to your ideas and what you're putting together.

SPEAKER_00: 15:56

Yeah, I definitely think people are receptive to the ideas. I mean, you know, we talk to people all the time Thank you so much for joining us. and also then how they're responding in comparison to, you know, London architects. So I think there's a lot of really interesting conversations that can be had between the two cities and the way that they respond to the gingerbread city and the master planning and kind of what they do. So I'm really excited to see what the New York architects come up with.

SPEAKER_01: 16:46

Are you pairing up with Nyland?

SPEAKER_00: 16:48

No.

SPEAKER_01: 16:48

Nyland is an exchange of cultures between the two cities, which architecture is very much part of it. What is the relevance and the impact of the work that the Museum of Architecture is doing? Our thoughts or our To answer

SPEAKER_00: 17:03

your first question, what's the impact and what's the relevance? I think that the way that I see Museum of Architecture in the sort of context of other architectural organizations in London is the fact that we are very public focused. We do all of our programming in terms of exhibitions based on a public audience, not necessarily architecture for architects, but architecture for the public. And I think, again, architects sometimes have a harder time reaching the public and there's not many So I hope that we are that outlet and we bring architecture to the wider audience. I mean, what's really exciting is for things like Gingerbread City is that I'm able to go on shows like Saturday Kitchen or Sunday Brunch and talk to different audiences that would never have otherwise engaged with architectural content and think it's just getting architecture out of the traditional means of reaching it and into places that otherwise people would not necessarily come across it. So I think that is definitely something that we are doing and we would like to be doing more of. and reaching those wider audiences, which is really important.

SPEAKER_01: 18:03

Tell me about how are things changing?

SPEAKER_00: 18:05

Again, I think one of the challenges is financials. Obviously, Gingerbread City costs a lot more to produce last year just because all the cost of everything went up, right? Just, you know, the margins for the amount of money that we make to be able to do all of our other programming is getting tighter. And I think right now, especially with this economy, I think getting sponsorship is also much more difficult. I think as we look at these challenges, and then obviously, you know, grant funding is going down as well. So every you know, I mean, I don't want to sound dire, but it's just, you know, that is the trajectory at the moment that we are looking at. Again, for us, it was, okay, you know, how can we survive? And it's looking at other places like New York or other places we can go and, you know, what are the sort of non-traditional partners we can work with as well as just looking at what opportunities are out there and trying to showcase how architecture can make a difference. Those are non-traditional ways of working is something that we are definitely exploring And

SPEAKER_01: 19:00

the architectural profession, it does need a reinventing. Do we need architects? Do we or we don't?

SPEAKER_00: 19:07

I would argue yes. I mean, we've seen enough when bad buildings go up that I think we definitely need architects. But I think people walk through their spaces and their communities every day. And I think what's important is to tell people the importance of good building design, not just for the external of how it looks, but also for how people use it. You know, making sure that our buildings are designed for the people that go in and also for the, you know, longevity as well. You know, what is this building going to become in 10, 15 years? Is it adaptable? Is it reusable? Thinking about the materials that we're using, making sure that they're sustainable, you know, and also working more with other partners in the built environment. How can we work better with planners to make everything better? How can we work better with engineers to make everything better? You know, who are the other people in the industry that we can come together with to just make a larger difference? And I think if we're able to show the public that we are doing these things and that there are differences that they can make also within these processes and engage some more, then I think we will have a better chance, a better success of staying relevant as well as an industry.

SPEAKER_01: 20:06

In terms of the current discourse that is going on, sustainability and materiality in architecture, does the Museum of Architecture or the Gingerbread Exhibition tackle that subject? And if so, how?

SPEAKER_00: 20:20

Every year it's themed. One year was a round of rewilding. So how can we include more green spaces in our cities and in places that don't necessarily have that green space and what are the opportunities that are there. So it was an opportunity to showcase all those moments, whether it's a pocket park or whether it's roof gardens, and to show what is possible. And people might not sort of think about those various different ways of including green space in our cities. And it was a way of introducing how they might come about to people who might influence those. You know, you don't know who's walking around. That's a thing. And so people say, oh, I didn't realize that could be done. I'll take that back. I didn't incorporate that. Maybe I will fight for a roof garden on my offices building or to have that outside space for mental health and well-being. I think you always have to think who is your audience. It could be someone who could make a difference. And so it's just making sure those messages are out there and the knowledge is out there for people to use and take back to their everyday life.

SPEAKER_01: 21:14

Gingerbread City or the Museum of Architecture, is it geared up for a particular age group or is it a diverse audience that is trying to capture?

SPEAKER_00: 21:22

It's definitely a diverse audience. I mean, obviously we have activities for younger children, but then it's you know there's adults as well who are interested in InDesign and specific to the Gingerbread City people are interested in baking and but then I mean we literally have everyone from babies to grandparents and really sort of widespread which again I think is something that makes it successful and the fact that it draws that wider audience and that and that we also have a program where we bring in schools for free during weekday mornings and give them an opportunity to have a tour as well and we introduce the concept of what is architecture, and again, talk about particular themes. Giro was around climates, how do we build in different climates, thinking about the materials, thinking about local building types and how we can learn from those. You know, what was really exciting is that you're introducing again those concepts to children who might not have any architects in their family or any understanding of what architects do or what architecture is. Again, it's a really great tool for us to be able to educate younger people about, and really anyone, entire families about what architecture

SPEAKER_01: 22:27

is. It's really intergenerational, a reflection A reflection note about

SPEAKER_00: 22:35

what you're doing and how do you see things moving in the future? and find out what's happening because you really can have a say in the way our cities are brought to life. And so I would encourage everyone to make sure that they say what they want because people are listening more and I think voices are being heard and learned from. So I would definitely try and engage.

SPEAKER_01: 23:16

Is there a question I should have asked you and that I haven't? And if there is, what was that question?

SPEAKER_00: 23:22

I'm not sure. I think we talked about everything. I'm trying to think if there's anything else.

SPEAKER_01: 23:28

Okay, I have one. I just I assume you're not a practicing architect at the moment. Would you like to become one again? No. And why not?

SPEAKER_00: 23:36

I love being creative. I really like designing. I enjoyed it a lot. But now I'm really more interested. I love what I do. I love seeing people's faces light up when they get excited about something. And I get to do that on a regular basis. And I just think that, yeah, being an architect wasn't really for me. But I obviously love the industry. I love supporting architects. I love being that platform where architects can have a voice to the wider public. I like being that connection and I like making really exciting things happen. For me, the creativity is coming up with the brief and the ideas and then seeing how architects then realize those. And I think that connection is really exciting for me and that is what I enjoy and I love. So thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01: 24:16

Thank you very much to my guests today, to all the listeners. And please subscribe to Architecture for Kids podcast and leave your rating and the review. Recommend us to your friends and family and to find out more about it visit our websites and follow us on and please join me again next week for another episode of Architecture for Kids podcast, brought to you in collaboration with the Build Environment Trust, the Thornton Education Trust, and the Welsh School of Architecture, Cardiff University.