Architecture for kids
These short and to-the-point podcasts hope to improve the interplay between the fields of the built environment and education as we share knowledge between the practitioner, the creative, and the primary school teacher. Exploring how to prepare children and young people for economic, environmental, and societal challenges, and for their professional lives according to today’s needs and those of a sustainable future.
The series received an award commendation by the Thornton Education Trust (TET) – Inspire Future Generations Awards 2024 – Commendation, category Online /IT Projects and Materials / Resources.
Architecture for kids
The Architecture of Student Wellness with Dr Simon Johns
When Dr Simon Johns first stepped into the vibrant classrooms of Ecuador—some overlooking the sea, others nestled in the Andean mountains, and a few without walls in the Amazon jungle—he discovered something profound about education. Wellbeing wasn't labeled or taught as a separate subject; it was woven into the fabric of learning itself.
This revelation sparked a journey that would lead him back to Wales to develop and research digital wellbeing programs for schools. In this enlightening conversation with Antonio Capelao, Simon shares how his background in psychology and experiences teaching across continents shaped his innovative approach to student wellbeing.
At the heart of Simon's research is "Pause Up," a digital resource that creates structured moments throughout the school day for students to reset mentally and physically. His findings reveal fascinating patterns across age groups: younger students embrace movement-based activities, while teenagers connect more deeply with reflective exercises exploring gratitude, empathy, and purpose. Perhaps most compelling is how the physical school environment—from modern facilities to century-old buildings—significantly impacts program effectiveness.
Set against the progressive backdrop of Welsh education policy, which uniquely includes wellbeing as a core curriculum area, Simon's work takes on special significance. He articulates a vision where wellbeing isn't "an isolated island" visited occasionally but the foundation upon which all learning is built. His research points toward a future where the architecture of school spaces is fundamentally reconsidered with student and teacher wellbeing at its centre.
For educators, designers, parents, and anyone interested in how physical spaces shape mental wellbeing, this conversation offers valuable insights into creating learning environments where young people can truly flourish. As Simon aptly puts it, "If wellbeing is at the top of the lesson plan, everything else runs smoother."
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Hosted by founder Antonio Capelao, and co-produced with the Built Environment Trust, the Thornton Education Trust, and the Welsh School of Architecture Cardiff University .
These short and to-the-point podcasts hope to improve the interplay between the fields of the built environment and education as we share knowledge between the practitioner, the creative, and the primary school teacher. Exploring how to prepare children and young people for economic, environmental, and societal challenges, and for their professional lives according to today’s needs and those of a sustainable future.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Architecture for Kids podcast. I'm your host, antonio Cablan. I'm a trained architect, an architectural educator and founding director of award-winning Architecture for Kids CIC. In this podcast, I'm going to talk to practitioners and creatives that share the same passion as I do to inspire and to engage children and young people to shape their built environment and the creative industries. The podcast is brought to you in collaboration with the Built Environment Trust, the Thornton Education Trust and the Wells School of Architecture, cardiff University.
Speaker 1:My guest today is Simon Johns. Simon is a PhD researcher focused on creating and evaluating digital well-being resources. He has a background in psychology and a keen interest in holistic ways to wellness, and our modern scientific evaluation allows for wider distribution of resources. He is a coach, yoga, swimming and English teacher. He speaks Spanish and works and lives in both Wales and Ecuador. He has experience in directing and producing films, videos, music and podcasts, and has been involved in a variety of projects that showcase his work. Simon, thank you for talking to me today and I'm looking forward to our conversation.
Speaker 1:Yes, very much looking forward to having a chat with you again, Simon what subjects were you good at school and what subjects did you enjoy most at school, if they were different?
Speaker 2:My favourite subject at school was PE. I enjoyed getting active during the school day. Unfortunately, we didn't get to do it that often, maybe once or twice a week. That was probably my favourite time favourite lesson. My strength, though, also lay in mathematics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really enjoyed solving problems and working things out, and how did that influence your career choices?
Speaker 2:Well, the maths influenced my first step into higher education. I started to begin studying maths when I went to Swansea University. Maths was sports science more specifically, so that ties in my love of PE and my enjoyment of maths. However, after the first year, I got to know myself a bit better and I started to think about other professions, and that gave me a desire to learn more about psychology and humans and the way we interact and how organisations are built. So, yeah, I swapped subjects then and began studying psychology Again, keeping the theme of trying to work things out, but instead of numbers I suppose I was. I focused subjects then and began studying psychology Again, keeping the theme of trying to work things out, but instead of numbers, I suppose I focused more on people.
Speaker 2:How did that change happen? So the change happened. Yeah, it was about six months into my first year of studying at Swansea University. It was my first year away from home, as it is for a lot of people once they leave the nest and go off to university as 18-year-olds and it really opened me up to new experiences and new people from different backgrounds, and it got me thinking more and more about what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed interacting and communicating with people, and so after six months, I did the first maths exams. I wasn't particularly interested in it. I appreciate it as a subject, but I wasn't fully engaged. So I had to start thinking about how to change course, and that led me to having conversations with head of department and, yeah, that's, that's how I facilitated the change. So I had a few months of not really doing any subject and just enjoying myself at university, working as well, ready to start afresh as a fresher, but in my second year and you also traveled to Ecuador and to different parts of South America, and you also travelled to Ecuador and to different parts of South America.
Speaker 1:Was that part of your degree or?
Speaker 2:it was just a personal choice to explore other places and other cultures university and started working in education in schools in the UK and after a year doing that, I decided it was time to have an adventure. It was a blank slate really. I didn't know where I was going. The map of the world was in front of me, I learned how to teach English as a foreign language and I had several offers on different continents China, mongolia, australia, spain and Ecuador. I didn't know much about Ecuador and sometimes that's the best reason to go. Yeah, jumped on a plane, arrived in a brand new city and that's where that adventure began and I continued to work. And then, when I was there, teaching English in a classroom with older students, with adults as well, and slowly but surely I started to learn a new language and a new way of communicating. And yeah, that adventure continued really in other projects that I started when I was out there.
Speaker 1:You were a PhD researcher at the moment, yeah, and creating and evaluating digital well-being resources. Did your travels influence your choice to do this PhD, or how did that happen?
Speaker 2:I think they were definitely an influence. That was the path that began leading me towards my PhD, I suppose. As I said, I got involved in lots of community projects when I was out in Ecuador, working in schools, inner cities, but also in more rural places. Ecuador is blessed with having four different regions, so I got to experience coastal region classrooms that had the sea outside them. I got to experience coastal region classrooms that had the sea outside them. I got to enjoy the Sierra, the mountainous Andean region, where there was classrooms very much like what we're familiar with, I suppose, in the UK, and then in the jungle as well, the Amazon jungle, where there wasn't particularly a certain classroom. There may not have been walls around us, but we had to use the environment. They were our materials to teach and explore.
Speaker 2:Well-being, which is the subject of my research, was all around me in those different environments. There wasn't a specific word for well-being Bienestar, which is what Spanish for well-being would be. It wasn't really mentioned in schools, but it was taken care of a lot of the time just by having the opportunity to learn. I got a sense of that. I got a sense of how educational and project-based learning, that what I was doing. There was a holistic approach, a whole person approach, and I thought that was a really valuable thing to have when you're learning and your approach to learning. In some ways I put that in my backpack, that knowledge, and came back to the UK hoping to make a difference in our schools in the UK in developing projects around that holistic approach mind, body, soul connection and that led me to begin talking to a company in Wales around that theme of developing wellbeing resources for schools. Do you want to talk a little?
Speaker 1:bit about the programme.
Speaker 2:Yeah, happily, so luckily, the company I got involved with were already established in Wales. They'd already created a programme for primary school four to 11 year olds, and that program was based around taking pauses throughout the school day during transitional moments during the school day, at the beginning of the day, after the first lesson, for example, after lunchtime, just before they went home, and it was a digital resource that worked on the whiteboard, and every few moments during the day it would trigger a pause and the classroom would stop. It would get the young pupils to stand up, move around a little bit and then take that pause of reflection before continuing with the learning. It would give the students a break, but also the teacher a break too, and it would give them a chance to look at the pupils and see how they were doing. So that was established in primary schools throughout Wales.
Speaker 2:So I came in and started talking about how we could continue that pause, but in an older setting, in a secondary school setting, and so that's what we did. We looked at what might be included within those moments of pause, within those breaks, and expanded really from just being a physical movement to also containing exercises for the brain, for the mind, meditations, breathing exercises, things like that, mindfulness activities and also information, filling it with information around the topic of well-being, to educate and to teach young people about things they can do to look after themselves, and so that got developed. Really, the original version was Pause Points for primary school and then the secondary school version was called Pause Up. Naturally, as they progressed up, we thought that was a fitting title to give it.
Speaker 1:That was the program really, and how different was the program from primary school to young people in secondary schools.
Speaker 2:Quite different yeah, quite different approach, more of a gentle approach. Introducing it to pupils in primary school seemed to be a lot easier, a lot more absorbent of new things and new information, and also the teacher. Think about the setting of a primary school you're in one classroom throughout the day with one teacher usually. So there was that buy in. The teacher understood what the program was about and was able to facilitate it within her space or his space in that classroom. In a secondary school there's an older audience, young people. Then to adolescence there's some more hesitancy towards new programs.
Speaker 2:Perhaps well-being becomes more complex. Bodies change, brains change. So there was that element. So how did we? How would we mature the activities? But then think about the secondary school environment too. There isn't just one classroom. You're introduced to a range of different teachers, different subjects, different peer groups. So there was that to factor into it as well Peer pressure, a bit more resistance maybe from staff members whose job description didn't have well-being in it. They were there to teach maths, they were there to teach science. So how could we try our best to implement it, take the path of least resistance to getting it started? They were the big differences, and also just doing that research as well, to find out what works best for that age group. What kind of well-being topics can we include within it?
Speaker 1:And now, receptive were the primary school pupils and the secondary school students to the programme.
Speaker 2:So the original programme, the primary school pupils. They were very receptive to it in the schools that had been using it. But there was no particular research done. That was all very much word of mouth in the primary setting and it spread that way too interestingly, One primary head teacher would talk to another and then they'd start the program and there was that buy-in from the top which really helped. But the young people as well really enjoyed moving about during the school day, shaking it off a bit stagnant, energy, getting the blood flow going to the brain, which helps learning.
Speaker 2:So then the secondary school. There was a bit more resistance, especially between let's look at year sevens, 11 year olds olds, and year nine, year 10, 14, 15 year olds. There's a big change there. A lot happens during those age groups. So there was a lot more resistance from the older range. So as the students got older they were a bit more resistant to do some of the activities we were encouraging them to do, especially around the physical movement activities within that sometimes more restricted classroom setting. So there was that to deal with. The key really was adaptability. As soon as we entered the secondary school, how do we learn from the students receiving the program to make it context specific but also adaptable and giving them choice as they go through school. So that's where my research really came into its own to find out all of those nuggets of information to help with the program but also to help with general approaches to well-being in schools. Tell us a little bit about that research.
Speaker 1:How did you explore those differences and did you conciliate things in your research?
Speaker 2:I wasn't sure how to approach it to begin with, but that's the beauty of getting involved with a university and a supervisor who has a wealth of experience in research, not necessarily within wellbeing and schools, but just the general overview of social science research. And that's what I got, really. I got encouraged to adopt a realist approach which looks at evaluating initiatives, programs, interventions with a realist lens, understanding the context they're placed in thoroughly and appreciating the outcome will vary a lot depending on the context. So with a realist approach, you have that context as the starting point. Then you have the mechanism which could be the program that's being placed into that context In this case it was Paws Up, the new well-being program and then you look at the outcomes as well, measure the outcomes. Maybe that's a qualitative report from a head of wellbeing or maybe that's a quantitative wellbeing scale change that the student filled in before and after the programme, all the while understanding that wellbeing is a very complex topic. So any effects from that programme that's being placed into that context may also be from other things that are happening.
Speaker 2:At the time there was a pandemic going on where we were introduced a new programme to the school. Of course that had an effect on how it was received, and wellbeing as well, but also family dynamic, different backgrounds of students in school, gender differences. So there was a lot going on there to try and figure out does this programme work or not and asking that question in this day and age isn't really a sensible approach or a realist approach. Does this work or not? Well, it works in this classroom because this teacher was adaptable. This teacher understood this idea around well-being and was therefore more encouraging to her students to use it. There was already an environment that was conducive for well-being support. Therefore, this program triggered a response within that context.
Speaker 2:But in another context where, who knows, maybe the teacher wasn't as engaged, maybe they had another program running that they felt was more effective at the time, so there wasn't much attention given to this new one. That was what my research had to do. As a sole researcher it was a lot to take on, but I tried my best and within my specific project. There were five schools involved throughout Wales and it was my job really to assess the differences and similarities between those settings and between the classrooms within those settings, and don't forget, the different age groups using it. At the beginning it was a very broad question. Luckily, then, as my research entered its third and now final year, it got more specific and we learned a lot about the program and how it will work best for whom and in what circumstances. So what is the question?
Speaker 1:now.
Speaker 2:There was a few questions around my thesis. It was, first of all, what are the perceptions of well-being from a young person? I needed to find out from bottom up, I suppose, what were the beliefs around well-being to start with? How could we tailor this program to meet the needs of the voices of the young people at the time? The second question then looked at what are the effects, if any, of this new program being introduced to schools. What works best for whom?
Speaker 2:So that was looking more specifically at the activities within the program. Which ones were enjoyed most by the different kinds of age groups or genders. For example, like I said earlier, the physical activities, the ones based around yoga, maybe small movements that got them standing up, were enjoyed more by the younger, 11, 12-year-olds. The 14, 15-year-olds really didn't appreciate and want to do those activities, especially in front of their peer group. But they really enjoyed the more spiritual activities, and by spiritual I mean is the activities that try to connect them as a group, uh, shared values. Within that module we provided them, I suppose, with short activities containing information on themes around positive psychology, which looks at topics of gratitude, empathy, kindness, savoring, meaning and purpose, and gives them little snippets of information around those themes and small activities that you can do to boost your own well-being, by being grateful each day, by being kind to a neighbor, those fundamental things that we know are good for us, but sometimes we just need reminding to do it, and so the older students really enjoyed those more desk-based interactive activities that they could do.
Speaker 2:So the next question then, as part of the thesis, was a bit more specific to the realist approach, the methodology, and that was what context and mechanisms lead to the outcomes. That was more specifically looking at where did the program work best, where didn't it work well and what was it about that context or that classroom setting that made it work? I highlighted that a little bit earlier. It was the teacher buy-in, the leadership support, the infrastructure of the school, of course, the setting. There was a nurture group setting in one of the schools and it really worked well there. The program, because the teacher had a lot more flexibility to pick and choose a time to use it.
Speaker 2:Some other settings struggled with that because the school timetable, I tell you, is such a busy monster. There's so many things happening. A new program just piled on top of that thing and in some situations it just didn't work. It just collapsed and it got lost within the the heap of to do in a busy school day. But when the spotlight was on it and the teacher was a bit more nurturing around it, it fired. It worked really well.
Speaker 2:So that was learning from the context and, as I mentioned, the mechanisms then varied depending on age groups and a big finding was the outcome of emotional well-being. It really did a lot to change those more immediate emotional states of students. There were reports, especially during the pandemic reports from heads of well-being in schools as well as self-reports by students themselves that they were really having a tough time with their emotions. The anxiety level in school was sky high because of closures, lockdowns, uncertainties, exams being cancelled, which I'm sure was great for some, but for others it maybe made the future look a bit more foggy and of course anxiety comes from thoughts of the future. It seemed to help them restore some of that confidence within themselves to look after themselves and lower that anxiety level somewhat in certain contexts. So they were the more immediate outcomes from the programme.
Speaker 1:Your research was done in such extreme times? Yes, do you think it needs to be done again, as we went back to normal? Not to normal, because we haven't really gone back to the same type of life we had before COVID, but we are interacting, we are socialising, we are going to work, we're going to schools. Do you think we need to retest your research in these different times to compare the difference? Or did you find that the levels of anxiety, although they're higher, they are still there now and therefore what you're doing, it just works for it as well, if you see what I mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I do see, and it's one of the things around research is it's an iterative process, so it's always needs repeating in different contexts, especially the realist approach which I was using. You develop theories during it, initial program theories for whatever program you're introducing or developing, and that's what we got to do, what I got to do with this program. It's a very initial testing phase and that's what we got to do, what I got to do with this program. It's a very initial testing phase and, like I said, the learning came from the context mainly. Which context does this work well in and for whom? And it seemed to work really well in more of a nurture group environment in schools. Now this environment would be for some students that can't quite settle into mainstream classes, where perhaps they've got an elevated anxiety level or other not severe, but mental health issues or behavior issues. It would be really beneficial, I think, to the project If somebody else picked it up now and studied it in a little more detail within those contexts to see which of those activities resonated the best with those students.
Speaker 2:I had a vague idea, but because it was such a large scale study and I was on my own doing it on my own. You know, I had lots of help and support from others the supervisors, the company I was working with, of course, the schools and the staff and the students that got involved. Company I was working with, of course, the schools and the staff and the students that got involved. But when I say on my own, I mean having somebody to maybe talk through the different theories that we're developing with. I think that's what would happen next. Naturally, I wouldn't want to do it myself, because I've done it for a long time within this program, but if somebody else wanted to take it up, that would be my biggest recommendation Implement it again in that context and really get a case study around it and get some more pupil voice and feedback to help spread it.
Speaker 1:Your research was in different places in Wales, wasn't just Cardiff-centric. What were the differences? If there were?
Speaker 2:any. The main settings where the programme was implemented were in the three counties of Pembrokeshire, Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire my neighbours, I suppose, where I live I don't live in Cardiff, I live on the West Wales coast in Pembrokeshire, so they were the schools that got involved. The main differences, I suppose at a context in terms of the context of the school, were the language. So in Wales we obviously have many languages now it's a multinational country but the dominant two languages in schools are Welsh and English and so the programme had to cater for that. It was offered in Welsh, there was a Welsh version of the program, there was an English version of the program and one or two of the schools in the research actually were Welsh schools. They taught in first language Welsh all of the subjects. So therefore used the program in Welsh and it worked really well there with the sense of well-being I think is deeply connected to the language we speak and our sense of belonging. So I think that must have helped it work better in those settings using it in that language.
Speaker 2:And there was a big difference as well in the infrastructure of this, around the theme of architecture I suppose like the more modern facilities where the program was implemented easier, technologically easier. They had the infrastructure, the technology equipped to plug into new programs. It worked well. The classrooms were larger, there was more space. Some of the schools were built I think even early 20th century we have a lot of old schools in wales and the infrastructure and the classroom settings weren't quite equipped to have people swinging their arms around and moving around. There was no interactive whiteboard at the front of the class. Yeah, there was a difference as well in building and how that interacted with the programme. Too many differences really to include in my thesis.
Speaker 1:These were more just observational differences from my own journey through In Wales wellbeing is part of the national curriculum as well, as you have the Wellbeing of Future Generations Act, which is first place in the world that have implemented such an act. How aligned was your programme or your research with both the curriculum as well as the Wellbeing of Future Generations Act in Wales?
Speaker 2:It was a unique, a really special opportunity to implement a wellbeing programme within that policy framework in Wales. The research was sponsored by something called the KESS Scholarship, which is Knowledge Economic Scholarships, and it's ended now. But what that tried to do was really boost the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals and also foster growth within small sector businesses in specific areas and regions in Wales, and that allowed the small company which I got involved in this research with to embark on this research journey with me. So within that Sustainable Development Goal pathway is the Future Generations Act, which you've just spoken about in Wales, which looks at trying to boost sustainability and decision-making for our future generations, for our young people that are growing up into that environment, that well-being environment, which is so important. The curriculum, then, and the whole school approach to well-being, which is another initiative that Wales has adopted. The whole school approach, briefly, is every member of the school community having a role to play in the well-being of each other, of the staff, of the students, of the community as a whole, the whole system. The curriculum of Wales now has six areas of learning and experience and, uh, things like numeracy, literacy are in there, expressive arts are in there, but health and well-being is also in there, so it's a part of their learning journey from three years old to, I don't know, 16, 17, 18, until they leave school. So teachers need to be prepared for that too. And that only got introduced in 2022. So very recent. So the change is happening.
Speaker 2:The positive change, in my opinion, is happening where we're teaching these 21st century skills to young people, and it's got sustainability in mind, because if we can teach young people how to look after themselves as they grow older, there's less of a burden on external agencies to support them. Of course, they should be there to support more serious cases, especially mental illness, but more positive mental health. Sometimes you can get support from those closest to you or from your inner resource as well. Yeah, it tied in really well the project within that landscape, within that wider context of Wales, and it really helped some teachers to understand various topics that they could use to fill in that lesson plan if you were for well-being within the curriculum, the gratitude exercises, the savouring exercises, where we encourage students to take photographs on the weekend and tell a story through that photograph Gave some teachers.
Speaker 2:Ah, this is a good idea. Let's expand on this and include it within our timetable within our lessons when we do wellbeing. It's important to understand, though, that within the curriculum as well, it shouldn't be an isolated island of wellbeing once every two weeks. It should be linked with the other subjects too. Everything should be linked and just as yeah, that's it it should all be combined together, and it's finding a way to do that within these spaces.
Speaker 1:I think well-being has to be the starting point and then every yeah it's around it. I suppose in our conversation you keep talking about the school environment, both in terms of human and spatial relations and how that affects children and young people, as well as how it affected the implementation or the receptiveness of your research. Do you think the long-term impact of your program is to actually change the mindsets of these school environments in order for programs like the one that you're just working on being more receptive, as well as all these 21st century soft skills that are necessary and that we're trying to implement in the education system?
Speaker 2:I think you said it well there, where it was. One of the mechanisms going back to the realist approach was changing mindsets and perhaps showing some staff members in schools that weren't as accepting of well-being as others that actually if well-being is at the top of the lesson plan, everything else runs smoother. In its own little way, it changed a few minds, which was a great accomplishment. I think if well-being is going to be a part of the curriculum and a part of educational journeys in not just wales, all over the world now schools are adopting well-being as a part of the curriculum and a part of educational journeys in not just Wales. All over the world now Schools are adopting well-being as a part of learning.
Speaker 2:There needs to be a shift in mindset. There needs to be some adaptability and flexibility, and that might not be able to be done in old buildings. The bricks can't be moulded, they're there, they're pretty static. But you can change the mind quite quickly and you can use the space around you to your advantage, should you have the time to do it and also the encouragement and the creative space to do it within think yeah, I've drifted from. The program we developed was all about, but more generally, if the topic of well-being now, when we create new spaces for learning, it should be within the blueprints of that, I think. How do we create these spaces to function alongside the knowing that well students are also well learners? That's pretty much what I want to try and get involved in now, after my phd is doing more of that, being involved in those discussions on creative spaces, creative learning and well-being spaces for schools.
Speaker 1:That was my next question what's next? But I think it seems as well that before we implement well-being primary and secondary schools, we need to teach them to adults first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely we need to make sure they're well. Teachers are on the front line too, especially over the pandemic. Sometimes we forget about the change that happened within that system the closures, the encouragement to carry on the exams, the pressures. There's a lot happening in those school systems and we need to make sure we're looking after the teachers too, making sure that their well-being is looked after, because of course we know from research that a well teacher encourages a well student and vice versa, so they work together. Of course, any program we develop for young people, for students, we've also got to think about what programs or what can be done to also support the staff in schools. And it's not just teachers, it's learning support assistants, dinner ladies, caretakers, head teachers, the senior team, the volunteer who comes in to help with rugby or football. The whole system, the whole school approach, needs to look after the whole school.
Speaker 1:Perhaps I wasn't very clear, but that was the point. I was trying to make All the school environment in general to be more open-minded in order to be receptive to these new ideas in general. Now we could talk a little bit about what's next in terms of your program and in terms of your career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so just as much as the school environment sometimes doesn't allow too much creativity because it's busy, it's been the same with me at really the last year, especially getting the thesis written there hasn't been too much space for me to think about what might be next, but I'm starting to approach that now because I'm very close to submitting that thesis.
Speaker 2:My thoughts on what's next are firstly, I'm going to hop on a plane fairly soon to go to Ecuador again and touch base over there from where it's all started and use that space and time to think about what I can do. I'd love to remain within research, not straight away. I'd like to leave and revisit after maybe six months or a year just to have a breather and a look at how it's going. But, like I said, I'd love to get involved more in the architecture of wellbeing and thinking about spaces, developing and creating spaces for it within schools. And also, yeah, working externally within education by supporting teachers with their mental health and well-being, as well as looking after my own and starting my own projects too would be great, my own spaces for learning. Is there a question I should?
Speaker 1:have asked you that I haven't asked you. And what is that question?
Speaker 2:You've asked some good questions today. I think I've spoken maybe too much. Well, I say a lot of the time. It's important at the beginning of meetings, check in with people. Something I've been encouraged to do on a course I'm on at the moment is those check-in moments. So, before the agenda starts, just check in and see how everybody's doing, because that sets the tone for the meeting. So maybe, yeah, how are you doing? How are you today, simon, at the beginning Would have been a good question. Okay, I shall note that for next time. Yeah, I'm doing great anyway, so it's all good. Thank you very much, simon. Thank you, yeah, great to speak to you again.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much to my guests today, to all the listeners, and please subscribe to Architecture for Kids podcast and leave your rating and the review, recommend us to your friends and family and, to find out more about it, visit our websites antoniocaplan-portfoliocouk buildingcentercouk, thorntoneducationtrustorg cardiffacuk, and follow us on Instagram, arch for Kids CIC, twitter, ant Kaplaun, linkedin, ant Kaplaun C-A-P-E-L-A-O. And please join me again next week for another episode of Architecture for Kids podcast, brought to you in collaboration with the Build Environment Trust, the Thornton Education Trust and the Welsh School of Architecture, cardiff University.