Family Disappeared
Have you lost contact with your child? What about your parent, or grandparent, sibling, or any other family member? You might be experiencing estrangement, alienation, or erasure. All of these terms speak to the trauma and dysfunction that so many families face.
A family is a complex living and breathing system. Each member plays a role in the family dynamic. When families carry generational trauma and/or experience new trauma, challenges, or dysfunction, this can result in a break in the family system.
These reaction strategies are habitual and very often interwoven into every aspect of how our family interacts.
Hi! I´m Lawrence Joss and I’ve learned that I need to cultivate a spiritual, emotional, and physical relationship with myself in order to have healthy relationships with others and everything in my life. It is my mission to help you create and nurture that relationship with yourself first and provide you with tools that might help you heal and strengthen family relationships.
This podcast is an opportunity to explore our healing journey together through the complexities of our families.
Welcome to the FAMILY DISAPPEARED podcast.
For more information, visit:
Website: https://parentalalienationanonymous.com/
Email- familydisappeared@gmail.com
Linktree https://linktr.ee/lawrencejoss
Family Disappeared
How To Navigate Thanksgiving This Holiday - Thanksgiving Special Episode
What happens when the people you love decide not to spend the holidays with you? Join me, Lawrence Joss, as I navigate the emotional minefield of family dynamics during Thanksgiving. Through my personal journey, I explore the crucial steps of emotional and spiritual healing, finding solace and understanding in the face of family estrangement. Drawing from personal growth and the support of a 12-step program, I share the emotional labor required to accept and validate loved ones' choices. Whether you're experiencing alienation from your children or strained relationships with siblings, discover how community and support groups, like Parental Alienation Anonymous, can be a lifeline during the holiday season.
Our journey doesn’t stop at understanding; it moves toward action, creativity, and new traditions. I offer insights on managing limited interactions during holiday gatherings, emphasizing the importance of being present, flexible, and understanding, especially when time with loved ones is scarce. From creating collaborative artworks to redefining Thanksgiving traditions, this episode is a heartfelt guide for fostering positivity in challenging circumstances. Hear how embracing new Thanksgiving traditions can bring unexpected joy, and uncover practical advice on navigating reunions with young adult children. Connect with our podcast community, share your stories, and become part of a supportive network dedicated to healing and growth.
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If you wish to connect with Lawrence Joss or any of the PA-A community members who have appeared as guests on the podcast:
Email- familydisappeared@gmail.com
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/lawrencejoss
(All links mentioned in the podcast are available in Linktree)
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This podcast is made possible by the Family Disappeared Team:
Anna Johnson- Editor/Contributor/Activist/Co-host
Glaze Gonzales- Podcast Manager
Connect with Lawrence Joss:
Website: https://parentalalienationanonymous.com/
Email- familydisappeared@gmail.com
Is that okay? Like, can you be okay with them just coming and accepting where they are and taking what is offered? And for me, as I learned to accept and take what is offered from my kids and be patient with them and fall into their cadence, stuff starts to shift and it gives more space for creativity and connection.
Speaker 2:There was a time in my life when I was overwhelmed and underwater. Those days are the inspiration for this podcast. This is by far the ultimate healing journey for all of us. Healing ourselves emotionally, spiritually and physically is paramount to this journey. From this place of grounding we can all go out into the world and change all our interactions and relationships. We can engage people from an integrated and resourced place. This is a journey of coming home to ourselves. In today's episode we'll start to explore some of these issues. Let's begin the healing journey today. Welcome to the Family Disappeared podcast.
Speaker 1:My name is Lawrence Joss and welcome to the Family Disappeared podcast. Today's a special Thanksgiving show. I'm going to be talking a little bit about best practices for Thanksgiving, what my experience has been in Thanksgiving, the challenges I've had, the victories that I've had and what it looks like today. And for anyone new to the community, welcome to the community. Thanks for coming out today to listen to the show. There's a great resource in the show notes for last year's podcast from Thanksgiving and it was a panel of parents. I think there was four of us or five of us talking about what Thanksgiving looks like today, what our struggles are, what we do to take care of ourselves, and there's some really sweet stories and some really great connections. So if you haven't listened to that podcast before or you have listened to it before, coming into the holidays to get as much support as possible is incredibly useful and re-listening to that I would highly recommend. And again, if you're new to the community, welcome. We got a lot of great resources in our show notes, especially around Thanksgiving and the holidays and this triangle of all these different events that come up near the end of the year. There's a link down there for Parental Alienation Anonymous, which is our free 12-step support group. We have multiple meetings a day, so during the holidays, if you're feeling lonely, isolated, it's in a lot of pain. It's a great place to go and get some community and share some stories and hear what other people are doing to get through the holidays and also hear some victories. Also in those show notes is our email address, which is family disappeared at gmailcom. If you have any suggestions for topics of podcasts, guests, or if you have any comments around the holidays, we'd love to hear from you, and later in the show I'm going to be sharing some questions and some stories from other members in the community, so your stories and your questions can get out there too. If you'd like to participate, be sure to like, comment on YouTube wherever it is, and share some of your holiday experiences or positive words and just a reflection on what the show meant to you. So with that, let's jump into the show.
Speaker 1:When I had kids, I always thought that I was going to get to spend the holidays with them Like this was a given. There was never an idea that for some reason, at some time in my life, I wouldn't have access to my kids or my kids wouldn't be in a place where they wanted to spend the holidays with me, whether it was by them taking care of themselves, not feeling safe, confused, whatever the situation was. There was never a time in my life where I thought that was a possibility of my life. And the first year, at Thanksgiving, when I didn't have all three of my daughters there, it was really, really challenging. I remember my oldest daughter at the time I think she had just started college. So at that age I said she could make her own decision and she decided to not come to holidays and that was great. That's what was the best thing for her to do for herself at that time. And when I say that was great, it doesn't mean it didn't hurt. It doesn't mean that I didn't miss her. It doesn't mean that my heart wasn't breaking. It was super, super, super challenging. And that's the way that I chose to parent at that time. And with the different tools and the different things I've learned in the 12-step program and with the other spiritual support that I have and the emotional work that I've done, I definitely would have handled that differently. I definitely would have been able to meet her in a different place and hear about her concerns about not coming and validate them and then let her know that they were real.
Speaker 1:Because what a crappy situation to be 18, 19, 20 years old and making a decision if you want to go spend Thanksgiving with one of your parents instead of the other or instead of sharing time between the two. I couldn't imagine how difficult that could be and back then I don't know if I necessarily had the perspective of how much a strain my daughter was under. I didn't have her at this Thanksgiving. My heart was breaking. It was really, really challenging. It was hard to be present and the times that I was present I had a great Thanksgiving. My other two daughters were there, I had other family members there, I had other friends there and I say this that I had this picture in my head of how family is supposed to be and what Thanksgiving was supposed to look like, and it changed and my nervous system wasn't prepared for it and slowly, over time, that has changed. I've got more used to the holidays and if you're new to parental alienation or estrangement or ratio whatever you want to call it and whether you're a parent, grandparent, child, you know everything changes and it takes time. A mentor one time says time takes time and I hated him for saying that and time does take time. It takes time for perspective, for learning, for maturity, for stuff to change in my life.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's enough out of me, and with that we're going to jump into some questions and stories that other members have shared. So, to be clear, when I share questions I'll just identify the person's an alienated parent, child, you know, how many kids they have or whatever information they've shared. No names or anything like that will be shared along with the questions. So here's a question from a mom of two teenage boys how do I get through the holidays if I potentially will not see my sons at all? And just to say that is heart-wrenching and heartbreaking and what a difficult situation to be in my heart goes out for you it's not easy.
Speaker 1:And in answering that question I'd say for me it's about making a plan. Like early on in the first couple of years when I was struggling with this, I didn't really have a concise plan. I figured I'd wing it. If a kid became available, that would be great, I'd see them for a little bit. I'd do this. I just kind of hang out and I landed up getting stuck in myself and my story and my body and my fear and my anxiety, and it wasn't useful. During the holidays they seem to take forever.
Speaker 1:And now what I would suggest for anyone out there that's not sure if they're going to have any kind of contact or what that contact might even look like is have a plan, decide what the day is going to look like. What are you going to do when you get up? Are you going to exercise, take the dogs for a walk, have a cup of coffee? And who are you going to connect with? What friends are you going to see? What family are you going to see? And make sure that the day is planned out Like for me. I know in the morning I'm going to get up and do some kind of exercise, my family is going to be over, I'm going to help cook and then I'm going to hang out with friends and, you know, maybe play some games and enjoy what I can of the holidays, which today I enjoy most of the holidays.
Speaker 1:So I would say for this alienated mom that's asking a question, the most important thing is to have a plan, really know where you're going to be question the most important thing is to have a plan, really know where you're going to be, what you're going to be doing, and don't base it all around on just if the kids are going to be available or not. And that's a really hard lesson I've had to learn is like I really need to be able to take care of myself, I need to be an agency, I need to have a plan, I need to be doing something, and it's really good for the kids too, because sometimes they hear that I'm not alone or I'm doing an activity or I'm taking care of myself, or, if I happen to have a little bit of connection, they know that they don't need to take care of me. You know, that's a very important nuance that I didn't understand in the beginning. I just wanted my kids to love me, I just wanted them to show up and in some ways I wanted them to emotionally soothe me and by having my own plan about having my own day scheduled out, I no longer needed that from them.
Speaker 1:Here is a question from an alienated dad of a 12-year-old daughter, and the question is my daughter's coming over for Thanksgiving and she said she's only going to stay for two hours. What should I do? You know that's a pretty vague question and a really important question and having any child say they're only going to be over for two hours and knowing that that two hours might be somewhat challenging, that's really hard for a parent. So again, my heart goes out to you that you're struggling with this and it's a really real question and it takes a lot of courage to be able to ask that question and put yourself out there. So I applaud you for taking that step forward and taking that step forward as part of what we talk about in recovery starting to take care of ourselves emotionally.
Speaker 1:So if I knew my child was only going to be spending a couple of hours and I know that I was anxious about it and would love them to spend more time and didn't know what to do you know what I mean I would resource myself before the child came over. And what resourcing for me would look like would be talking to trusted friends that can understand where I am talking, to people that aren't involved in all the fire of the interaction and the family dynamics that might be able to give me some good advice, and I would be as present as possible and I would have a plan. Like they're coming over at what time are we going to play a game? Are we going to do this? Are we going to do that? You know what is my contingency plan If the game doesn't work out, are we going to do that? You know what is my contingency plan If the game doesn't work out, are we going to watch a show?
Speaker 1:And I would also say, to meet them where they are, to acknowledge that this is, you know, somewhat uncomfortable and somewhat difficult, and let's make the best of it. And what would you like to do? And if they're able to take the lead, let them take the lead. And if they're not able to take the lead, have a plan, have some games, have something to cook together, tv show, to watch a movie, you know whatever it is. But again, being present with them and meeting them with what they're able to offer for me has created space.
Speaker 1:So some of those times that have been restricted to a certain amount of time have expanded, if I'm expansive enough to hold the discomfort of the situation, because a lot of times I get so uncomfortable with the situation that I make my child uncomfortable and they think that they have to take care of me, or they get anxious and then they want to leave. It becomes self-defeating and sometimes I propel alienation forward. In a situation like this, where it's a limited amount of time because I'm so hyper focused or anxious that I can't actually relax and just enjoy what is offered, and it's really crappy. But on the holidays, I say, appreciating what is offered is a really important thing to practice and also realizing how difficult a situation a child is in if they are limited in the amount of time that they're willing to spend with you, even if it seems like it's their decision or it seems like they're being mean or they're disconnected inside their bodies. They're struggling with so many different things that they don't even have words for. They don't even understand their feelings. They don't understand what's their feelings, what are other people's feelings, their emotions and stuff, and they're just trying to get through the day. You know, and it's kind of crappy to say, but they're just trying not to die. And if we can make that a little bit easier in the holidays, then I think that's what parenting might look like for some people.
Speaker 1:And other people out there might have different opinions and I'd love to hear in the YouTube comments or any of our social media comments if you've had different experiences, if you have different ideas. Just because this is my lived experience and what works for me today doesn't mean that it's the only path forward. This is just what we're sharing today, or what I'm sharing today, and again, if you haven't watched the podcast from last year for Thanksgiving, you have a plethora of different experiences and different voices and different genders expressing what their holidays have looked like and what they're doing today. So I highly suggest to get to that. And I just want to jump into another tool before we go to the next question is we have a free 12-step group, which is Parental Alienation Anonymous and again, the link is in the show notes and there's two meetings a day during the holidays and it's a great place to come. And if you don't want to share, just to listen to some people's experiences and what they're going through and how they're managing it, and it's a great way to fill up part of your day.
Speaker 1:Like for me when I was newer to 12-step community or support groups is I used to go to two, three meetings a day on the holidays and they used to get me through the holidays. I used to get to connect with people for an hour and a half and then maybe I'd go see a child for a little bit or have some connection with family, and then maybe I'd go to another meeting and it's okay to be selfish. Let me talk for myself. For me it was okay to be selfish and really prioritize my emotional and spiritual recovery and well-being above connecting with maybe some family or friends that I would generally connect with on the holidays because it was so hard to get through. So take care of yourself. If it seems a little bit selfish to someone else, it's none of your business. You're taking care of yourself. As long as you're being kind, showing up, getting support where it really feels like you're being met by support, that's great, and making time for connection when it feels like it's available and necessary to you. At least that's been my path forward and as the years have gone by it's gotten easier. You know I really really, really enjoy the holidays now and I miss my daughters that I'm not connected with. But my holidays are super, super fun and those overwhelming emotions and tears and sorrow and longing have moved further and further away and I can still acknowledge that I miss my daughters.
Speaker 1:When we go around the Thanksgiving table talking about what we're going to be thankful for, that's a super powerful thing. Let's jump into another question now. So this is a question from actually, a grandmother of two and also has an alienated daughter as well, and her question is what do I do on the holidays when all my old traditions no longer apply because I don't have access to my grandchildren and daughter? And that is a super poignant and powerful question and heartbreaking and challenging. And yet there's like a sense of maturity and recovery that comes along with being able to identify that question, like you've had all these traditions for so many years and you can't practice these traditions today and what can you possibly do? So I just want to acknowledge what a powerful and important question and I would say it's been incredibly healing and important to have new traditions and incorporate some of the old traditions.
Speaker 1:So one of the traditions that we used to do on Thanksgiving is before we ate, everyone would go around the table and say what they were thankful for. It was really powerful and wonderful to hear, and the first couple of years after I didn't have access to my kids is I didn't like doing that and the rest of my family that celebrated. We still did that and now it's like I'm super grateful for the life that I live. I'm super grateful for the recovery that I have, the friends that I have in my life, and I miss my children Like it's part of the experience. But it is no longer the experience I'm going to say that again Like I was so wrapped up in parental alienation the pain, the hurt, the longing, the confusion, the anger, the fear, whatever it was that I became part of the parental alienation, part of the inertia.
Speaker 1:And when it came to holidays I used to identify as kind of like parental alienation. It was like everything and as I've worked on myself emotionally and spiritually, my perspective has changed. Like it really really hurts to miss my kids and I'm really enjoying the holidays and I'm really having a good time and building new community and building new traditions and doing these other things. It wasn't that I'm all just heartbroken and all just alienation. It's been a real life affirming change.
Speaker 1:For me to be able to let go of my whole life is alienation and identifying that I do have alienation in my life but it is not what defines me as a person and as a father and for anyone that's out there that's thinking like I'm not getting to parent on the holidays, this is the ultimate form of parenting and I call it parenting without access. Like when I parent at Thanksgiving and I show up fully with my family and I'm available to other people emotionally and able to connect and to be present. And I still miss my kids but I'm actually able to enjoy, like that is the greatest example of parenting Even though I don't have access to my child. Like I'm not going to stop parenting on the holidays and give away that agency that I have to anyone, including my kids, my ex, to anyone else in the family system. Today, I show up and I fully enjoy the holidays and sometimes they're really challenging and I resource myself, I go to meetings, I call my sponsor, I reach out to trusted people in my life. You know what I mean. It's really, really important.
Speaker 1:And also, I think the second part of the question is like starting new traditions, like what do new traditions look like? And I don't think it matters what the new tradition is like. The new tradition we started at my house is I put like a giant picture on the wall, whether it's of a turkey or a dolphin or whatever, and leave out crayons and water paints and people can walk by the painting during the course of thanksgiving or the couple days if they're staying over and we fill out these paintings, these giant paintings together. You can find them online anywhere and it's it's super fun and it's a super neat tradition and it marks the time and when I say it marks the time, it marks this idea that we're continuing to evolve and grow and change, even though we're struggling with parental alienation, erasure, estrangement. And this is really, really important because parental alienation wants to keep me stuck. It wants to keep me at the same maturity level and the same emotional level.
Speaker 1:I was the day that I found out about it and as I start new traditions, as I engage life as a person that has alienation in my life and not a person that is just alienation, everything starts to change and the system starts to move again and me showing up fully with these new traditions and practicing them whether they're silly, whether they're cool, whatever it is, it creates space for creativity. It creates space for change. So I welcome you to really think like what can you do this year to start a new tradition, to pick up an old tradition, how can you engage that with your own agency and life force? And then I'd love to hear from you like did that change your relationship to the holiday? Did it make the holidays feel better? Worse? For me, it always makes the holidays richer and more meaningful and I get to remember them and remember the conversations that I'm having and the people that happen to be in community with me that day or night. So what a great question and I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1:So just to share a little personal Thanksgiving story you know I'm a pescatarian and if you don't know what a pescatarian is, that means that I eat fish and vegetables and that's kind of what I eat. I don't really eat meat or chicken or anything like that, except for Thanksgiving, and my brother-in-law usually cooks the turkey and he does this really cool brine on the outside that just makes it incredibly tasty. And I skipped turkey for a couple of years and I'm like you know what, starting last year, I started eating. Was it last year I started eating? Was it last year or maybe the last two years? I started eating turkey again. It's like my one day a year that I eat turkey. So I'm super excited and, santi, if you're listening to this, make it good man, make a good brother. I'm really starving for some turkey.
Speaker 1:I'm going to finish up the show with this last question. It actually happens to be from a parent that is reunited with their child, young adult, so 21 years old, and the question is how do I get through Thanksgiving with my 21-year-old that I'm recently reunited with? And there's a bit more context that's not part of the question that I'll just share with you. That this person shared with me is they just reunited with their child and it's really challenging and communication is really strange and there's a lot of hurt feelings and this parent is like how do I get through Thanksgiving? So I think, again, a really powerful question and a really challenging situation. And I would say for me, having no contact with my kid is one sort of emotional challenge and emotional problem and reestablishing contact with my children is super challenging and super hard because languaging is just so important. There's so much hurt, there's so much pain, so navigating those conversations at Thanksgiving or Christmas or whatever it is, is super challenging.
Speaker 1:So what I would offer to this father is I'd offer a plan Like what's the day going to look like, when's food going to get served, who's coming Like? All those really rudimentary things that are really simple, and then just to be present with your child and meet them where they are and take what is offered, as I've said earlier in the show, like they might want to engage. It might take them a while to warm up. They might not want to talk to their grandparents or talk to someone else at the party and is that okay? Like, can you be okay with them just coming and accepting where they are and taking what is offered?
Speaker 1:And for me, as I learned to accept and take what is offered from my kids and be patient with them and fall into their cadence, stuff starts to shift and it gives more space for creativity and connection. So it sounds like a super challenging situation and being really present with yourself, taking care of yourself physically, making sure that you're in the best possible place to show up in the best possible way that day. You know and there is no wrong or right you might make a mistake, your child might make a mistake and you know. Acknowledging those things and cleaning them up as quickly as possible would be really, really useful and just appreciating the highlights that come along, because I know for me full connection with my youngest daughter and just starting to reestablish connection with my middle daughter and for both of them parental alienation is always there. Parental alienation doesn't go away just because I have connection. Parental alienation is part of the family system and has a seat at the Thanksgiving table too.
Speaker 1:So as I'm navigating conversations and connections, I got to be really cognizant of what I'm saying. Am I trying to take something that's not offered? Can I just accept what I'm offered by my children? And it's really liberating to come into the situation prepared and available and also knowing that there's other people around that I can love and I can connect with and just appreciate that my child has the courage to show up in this moment in this way, and then trust starts to generate its own inertia and its own energy and stuff might open up and again, super complex questions and problems and challenging and just saying it out loud and asking that question is super powerful and having grace with yourself. I'm not doing this perfectly.
Speaker 1:I continue to make mistakes, I continue to hurt my daughters unintentionally by some of my behaviors, some of my choices or words, maybe the disappointment on my face sometimes. Maybe I get emotional and there's nothing wrong with any of those things and emotional is wonderful for me. You know what I mean. It's really taking care of myself and I might have a different impact on other people's nervous systems and I need to have grace with myself.
Speaker 1:I'd say I'm going to finish this podcast with grace, like can I have grace with myself, can I accept that I'm a human being too, that I make mistakes sometimes, and sometimes I do wonderful and great things too? You know what I mean. And can I accept all parts of myself? I think that's a wonderful part and opportunity of the holidays is just to meet ourselves where we are, just as we want to and are willing to meet our children where they are and taking what's offered. And we might just learn a bunch of stuff from this holiday about ourselves and how to take care of ourselves better the next holidays and we might have a wonderful holiday too. So that's a wrap up for the show and if you're new to the community, again welcome. Great resources in the show notes.
Speaker 1:Come out and check out 12-step meeting over the holidays Parental Alienation Anonymous. The meetings are free, wonderful people in the meetings you can share not share, it's completely up to you and an incredible, incredible resource during the holidays. I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful turkey day and that whoever's making a turkey does a great job. Interviewing something else. I hope that's good too, and I'm really grateful to be part of this community. I'm really grateful to be resourced by this community. If you haven't listened to the podcast from last year the links in the show notes please check it out.
Speaker 1:Really, really cool hearing other voices besides just mine. It's really good to hear the diversity of voices because what I'm offering might make sense. What I'm offering might not make sense, and I'm just another parent that's out there struggling and trying to do the best that I can. So please take what is offered and leave the rest. And, in case anyone hasn't told you yet today, I love you. I hope you have a beautiful holiday and a wonderful Thanksgiving and I hope to see you around the room sometimes or bump into you somewhere else in the community. So have a beautiful day and gobble gobble.
Speaker 2:Thanks for taking the time to join me on this episode of Family Disappeared Podcast. Do you know someone who can benefit from what we're discussing on today's episode? If so, please share this podcast with them and anyone else in your community that might be interested in changing their lives. Together we'll continue the exploring, growing and healing journey. I will see you on our next episode. Until then, happy days to all.