Family Disappeared
Have you lost contact with your child? What about your parent, or grandparent, sibling, or any other family member? You might be experiencing estrangement, alienation, or erasure. All of these terms speak to the trauma and dysfunction that so many families face.
A family is a complex living and breathing system. Each member plays a role in the family dynamic. When families carry generational trauma and/or experience new trauma, challenges, or dysfunction, this can result in a break in the family system.
These reaction strategies are habitual and very often interwoven into every aspect of how our family interacts.
Hi! I´m Lawrence Joss and I’ve learned that I need to cultivate a spiritual, emotional, and physical relationship with myself in order to have healthy relationships with others and everything in my life. It is my mission to help you create and nurture that relationship with yourself first and provide you with tools that might help you heal and strengthen family relationships.
This podcast is an opportunity to explore our healing journey together through the complexities of our families.
Welcome to the FAMILY DISAPPEARED podcast.
For more information, visit:
Website: https://parentalalienationanonymous.com/
Email- familydisappeared@gmail.com
Linktree https://linktr.ee/lawrencejoss
Family Disappeared
How To Pick The Best Attorney With Legal Expert Rachel King Part 1 - Episode 71
Feeling overwhelmed during a court appearance can be a daunting experience, but attorney Rachel King is here to guide you through the legal maze with confidence. In our latest episode, Rachel draws from her expertise to share transformative strategies for selecting the right attorney and maintaining agency in your legal battles. Whether you're representing yourself or working with legal counsel, Rachel's insights will empower you to navigate the legal landscape with poise. Her upcoming book promises to be a vital resource for anyone looking to better understand the intricacies of legal representation.
We dive into the heart of family law litigation, highlighting the importance of selecting a trustworthy attorney who communicates openly and sets realistic expectations. Trusting your instincts is essential when choosing legal representation, especially in challenging situations like divorce or parental alienation cases. Rachel also sheds light on recognizing ineffective legal representation and understanding when an attorney may not be the right fit, ensuring you're never stuck with unrealistic promises or poor communication.
Effective client-attorney communication is the cornerstone of a successful legal journey. Rachel emphasizes the need for clear expectations and understanding between clients and their legal representatives, urging both parties to establish mutual guidelines from the outset. As we wrap up, we focus on the positive impact of community support and kindness, encouraging listeners to share this episode with anyone who might benefit from its empowering insights. Join us in spreading gratitude and continuing our exploration of the legal world with open hearts and minds.
Rachel King - https://rachelkingattorney.com/
Rachel's book - "Getting Divorced - Now What?"
Don't forget to Subscribe to our YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@parentalalienationadvocates
If you wish to connect with Lawrence Joss or any of the PA-A community members who have appeared as guests on the podcast:
Email- familydisappeared@gmail.com
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/lawrencejoss
(All links mentioned in the podcast are available in Linktree)
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This podcast is made possible by the Family Disappeared Team:
Anna Johnson- Editor/Contributor/Activist/Co-host
Glaze Gonzales- Podcast Manager
Connect with Lawrence Joss:
Website: https://parentalalienationanonymous.com/
Email- familydisappeared@gmail.com
During your consultation, when you're scoping out an attorney, have an idea of what is important to you and what you want and then ask that law firm, ask that attorney if that's how they work and if they don't, don't feel bad. It's not a good fit, you can find another attorney.
Speaker 2:There was a time in my life when I was overwhelmed and underwater. Those days are the inspiration for this podcast. This is by far the ultimate healing journey for all of us. Healing ourselves emotionally, spiritually and physically is paramount to this journey. From this place of grounding, we can all go out into the world and change all our interactions and relationships. We can engage people from an integrated and resourced place. This is a journey of coming home to ourselves. In today's episode, we'll start to explore some of these issues. Let's begin the healing journey today. Welcome to the Family Disappeared Podcast. Hi, my name is Lawrence Joss and welcome to the Family Disappeared Podcast.
Speaker 2:Today we have attorney Rachel King on the show. She's actually a litigator and has an incredible practice, and she's been gracious enough to come on the show to answer some really provocative questions about hiring attorneys, what recourse you have against an attorney if something isn't going great. Also how to advocate for yourself. And she has an incredible, incredible tip at the end of the show, which is probably the best tip I've ever heard from an attorney that you're going to have to stick around and listen to here. And she's also writing a book to help people that are self-representing and also help people that have legal counsel or an attorney really prepare for the court and really understand the nuances and all the different things that are happening in there. And wonderful, wonderful, powerful, useful tips in the book. So great interview and, yeah, I think you're going to really enjoy it. There was definitely some really really great golden nuggets for me and if you're new to the community, welcome. It's great to have you here. We are a 501c3 nonprofit. We have a free 12-step community and support group, which is in the show notes Parental Alienation, Anonymous and we have a plethora of other resources. And if you're here for the first time, there's a bunch of shows in the canon you can go back and check out that cover all sorts of topics. I'd look through stuff and find stuff that really resonates with you and if you have any suggestions, any topics you feel like we missed or anything else you'd like us to discuss, you can email me directly at familydisappeared at gmailcom and check out the show notes. Bunch of great resources. That's enough for me. Let's jump in.
Speaker 2:I remember one of my first court appearances. I went with my attorney, who had been my attorney for a long time doing my business and my personal stuff, and we went into this little room and there was my ex with their attorney and God, it was uncomfortable and their attorney was just listing off a bunch of stuff that wasn't necessarily real. It didn't really make any kind of sense to me and my nervous system was overwhelmed and I fully trusted my attorney that I was with and I'd given away all my agency and we talk about agency on the show sometimes and that's just like your control, your volition, your opportunity to educate yourself outside of your attorney and outside of this one thing that I went to and we left and the court proceedings proceeded where they went. But if I would have known now what I knew, then I'd be a thousand times more prepared. I would have understand what was going to happen in the room. I would have been able to advocate for myself in a different way.
Speaker 2:And the beauty about talking to a professional like Rachel King is she's providing a window into what we can do that we don't know that we need to do, and it's really really, really powerful stuff and really interesting. And if you can really take in the stuff that she's saying, I think you're going to love the show. Okay, let's hear what Rachel has to say. Rachel, it's so great to have you here on the show today, and just so the audience gets to familiarize themselves with you a little bit more, can you please introduce yourself and say hi to everyone?
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to talk to you and I hope that at the end of this, maybe your listeners feel a little bit more confident in their case as they move forward. I'm a litigator, I'm an attorney. I've practiced family law litigation for over 10 years, and I'm really at a point in my career now where I want to share all of the things that I've learned and give the tips to those that are self-representing moving through their own case, so that maybe they look at their case a little bit differently or can plan or prepare in a way that's going to have a more successful outcome, and so that's kind of my mission these days.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that mission and the community so needs some folks out there that are willing to share best practices and how to navigate the complexity of the legal systems, especially when we're under-resourced and some of us are representing ourselves. So Rachel has a book that ties back into all this kind of stuff that we're going to talk about in and out of the podcast. So as I ask questions, you'll hear a lot of that getting referenced, and I just want to say thank you one more time, rachel, because I am going to ask you some provocative questions that keep coming up and you've been really open to.
Speaker 1:I've been asked a lot of things, so probably nothing will stop me.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that and I appreciate your willingness. So thank you for that. So I'm going to jump right in here. So when we're looking for an attorney, when we're struggling with its parental alienation estrangement, like a really complex divorce situation, like what should we be looking for when we're up against something that feels really big and maybe very confusing to us in the beginning?
Speaker 1:Certainly money matters, so finding an attorney that can fit your budget, I think, is important. Maybe a more expensive attorney is better than a less expensive attorney, but we aren't necessarily in control of our own finances, especially when we're going through something like a family loss situation. So let's put all of that aside, even the experience of the attorney. Let's put that aside. And I truly think the most important thing for anybody that's thinking about hiring an attorney is that you trust your attorney, and I think I try and have people understand it this way If you have the best attorney in the world so truly the best attorney attorney in the world, so truly the best attorney.
Speaker 1:There's nobody better but when they tell you something, you don't trust them. First, you're wasting your money and two, you're going to have a horrible experience. It doesn't matter how good they are or if they're the best, you're not going to believe them, you're not going to want to do what they say, and your experience through the court process is going to be a lot worse. At the same time, if you have the better call Saul of attorneys and they're not that great but you trust everything they say and you really, truly believe that they have your best interest at heart. Even if you lose, you're going to have an overall better family law experience.
Speaker 1:So number one pick an attorney that you trust and to that end, if you trust your attorney at the beginning and then some way, somewhere through the process, that trust breaks down Again, it's time to revisit your attorney, see if you can salvage that relationship. But if you can't, it's time to let go and find a new one, because you have to trust that they are on your side, that they're advocating for your best interest, and you have to be willing to listen to them and to follow their advice. If you're not going to follow your attorney's advice, you might as well save all of your money and self-represent no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Lot of us in that really intense situation. I don't think we can necessarily trust ourselves.
Speaker 1:Well, let's not underestimate the importance and power of a gut feeling, right, if you have a gut feeling that this attorney isn't going to be a good fit, it's okay to trust that attorney. I think it's okay to go into every conversation with your attorney, especially a new attorney, one that you're kind of interviewing with a little bit of skepticism. Right, you don't want to be insulting, obviously, because you're trying to see if it's going to be a good fit, but you want it to be a good fit. If you have an attorney that's promising the world to you, you're probably getting taken to the cleaners, or you have more of fee-driven attorney, or somebody who is looking out for maybe their own pocketbook rather than yours, or somebody who is looking out for maybe their own pocketbook rather than yours. It is never the case that your particular situation is negative, free right, we all have bad parts of our case and I think when you're talking to an attorney though it can seem really awful to have an attorney you're interviewing say you have no case or that's you have an uphill battle or whatever it is Maybe they tell you you're not going to get your kids back, or it's not parental alienation, though you believe it is. If your attorney is only telling you the good, they're either not very good of an attorney because they can't even understand the law to apply the facts, or they're really telling you what you want to hear, neither of which is going to be good in your case. So, outside of gut feeling, you really want to look at it and see is this attorney telling me the good and the bad of my case? Are they able to recognize my strengths and my weaknesses in my case, and are they communicating information in a way that I can understand as the client? There is nothing worse than paying an attorney and not understanding what's going on, because it makes you feel out of control or powerless. So you want an attorney that's going to communicate with you at your level.
Speaker 1:I have clients routinely, almost daily, say I know I've asked you this question before, rachel, who cares if you've asked it before? I've been through this situation thousands of times with thousands of clients, but you've only been through it maybe once or twice. So if you need me to re-explain something over and over again and in different ways so that you can understand it, that's my job and that's what your attorney should be doing for you. And then again, I cannot emphasize the importance of your attorney being able to tell you the weaknesses. It's easy and fun to tell the strengths right. It's a lot harder to be able to identify the weaknesses and have that conversation and communicate with your client what they are Also discussing with your client, how you're going to handle them, what are you going to do about these weaknesses and how are they going to be brought up in the case. If your attorney can do that and you trust them and you have a gut feeling that says that it's fine or it's even good, I think that's a really great place to start.
Speaker 2:Those are wonderful, wonderful points. On the communication I heard you say several times is really important. The attorney is actually able to communicate on a level that makes sense to you and that you feel heard and seen. And I would say this when you initially meet an attorney, you have access to them because even though you are interviewing them, they're still trying to sell something ultimately, which is you know they want a new client. And how does accessibility work into this whole gut feeling and trust? Like, initially, I have accessibility to have this conversation for a half an hour or whatsoever, but do most attorneys have other people processing all the paperwork and they're just the person that the client has access to once in a while? Or like, what does a client, when they're vetting out an attorney, ask in order to find out if they're actually going to have regular, direct communication and not be layered into three other people?
Speaker 1:Well, let me start by saying a consultation is absolutely a client's opportunity to interview and pick the attorney. As an attorney, I say it is exactly the same thing with me, though I really want to make sure that I think, as an attorney, this is going to be a good fit. So if there's anything through this consultation that causes me to believe it's not going to be a good fit, or we're going to have conflicting ideas down the road or it's going to be fighting I don't want the client either so allowing the attorney that freedom as well to kind of ask you the questions, because ultimately it's a huge financial investment and you're trusting an attorney with a lot of information and, potentially, how the outcome of your case is going to go. So, understanding that it's about both processes, I've turned down cases where I thought that I was going to be fighting with my client. If, during the consultation, I can already tell that nothing I say is going to be good enough and we're already starting to argue about where the facts go and what the law is, it's probably not a case that I'm going to want, because, man, we couldn't even get through the first conversation without conflict and we're supposed to be on the same side. I think to.
Speaker 1:What you were asking is every lawyer is set up differently. There are some lawyers that are sole proprietors. We call them, you know they hang their shingle. They don't even have a secretary. They answer their own phone and it's their personal cell phone. For business, they're kind of a one-stop shop. That's a completely different practice model than maybe one of the big international law firms that has offices in every state and every country and each has a different benefit. In the middle you've got midsize firms, smaller firms. I don't think it really matters what kind of firm you go with, but I do think it's important as a client to understand what your needs are, because if you have different needs than the firm is going to be or that attorney is going to be able to offer, you're going to be unhappy right out the gate. That's going to affect your trust. So, for example, I've had clients say no, I want your personal cell phone and I want to be able to call you all the time. Well, that's fine, but that's not how I operate. That is a boundary that I don't allow clients to have, and so if that's what they're looking for, they should hire a different attorney.
Speaker 1:I've had client. I had a potential client come into my office. This was when I was very early in my firm ownership. I had a small little office but I had a staff. I had all of the moving parts of a law firm. But they said I loved you, rachel, but I really wanted one of the law firms that you see on TV, big marble countertops and send a huge executive cheers. That made them feel like their attorney was going to be the best. And I simply said that's totally fine, you should go hire one of those firms. But no, you're going to be paying for it, right? They don't just pay for the fund, their own marble, that comes from the client's bills and so. But that's okay, because that was what made that client feel comfortable with their attorney. I've had other people that say I just want to one attorney who doesn't have a lot of overhead, who's going to be super dedicated to me. That's great as well.
Speaker 1:In my firm I do all consultations. That's not the case in many firms. Other firms will have non-lawyers do consultations. I personally believe that I want to talk to a client to decide if I want to take on their case, because it's us working together. From there I have client liaison, I have amazing paralegals. I just have a whole staff and we all work together.
Speaker 1:So it's realistic for a client, if they choose to work with me, to understand that they're not going to get me on the phone every time they call. It's unrealistic for a client to think that they can make a demand. I'm going to talk to Rachel right now. You're not going to.
Speaker 1:That's not how my firm is set up, but what is set up in my firm is that somebody in the office can give you the answer to the information or the question you have in a very short period of time, and everybody in the office has access to me. So maybe I can't get on the phone because I'm in court, but I will get you that information and that answer as quickly as possible. I'm very transparent with clients, though, and potential clients, about how I operate, and if that's not something that they're okay with, that's fine. Then you should find another lawyer. But during your consultation, when you're scoping out an attorney, have an idea of what is important to you and what you want, and then ask that law firm, ask that attorney if that's how they work, and if they don't, don't feel bad. It's not a good fit. You can find another attorney and again it comes back to trusting your attorney and getting the communication that's going to make you feel like you are being represented in your case.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that. And yeah, I love what you're saying about for the client to really know what they're looking for and really have spent some time thinking what it is that they're looking for in an attorney, just like any other relationship that they would go into. That they have the onus on them to be prepared and not to show up in a dysregulated state and then they kind of lose control of everything and the attorney if it's an attorney that's sitting in a useful seat, they will vet out the client too and I love that and decide if it's a fit as well. And thank you for adding the layers of transparency and how different firms work. So I think that'll be really important for people listening that they know that there are people all over the spectrum and you're going to find another attorney if this one doesn't work Right. So that's all wonderful stuff.
Speaker 1:And real quick, like add in if it changes. That's okay too, right? So I've had clients. In fact I had one client who hired me. She was so happy with the representation and then you know whatever happened? People got in her ear and she thought I think I can, I think I need an attorney that's going to communicate with me a little bit differently and and run the firm a little bit differently. And I said that's totally fine. We parted ways.
Speaker 1:She went and found another attorney and then about a year and a half later she called me. She said I really need you back. I haven't been able to find an attorney. I realized that what you were offering was really what I wanted. I just didn't know it at the time. So it's okay to switch attorneys if you're uncomfortable. The only time it becomes a negative because I get asked this question is where the judge starts thinking that you are changing out attorneys only for strategic advantage or delay. If you are trying to delay proceedings, or it appears that way, by switching attorneys, then you want to be aware of that. Absent that very limited circumstance. It's more important to have an attorney that you trust than it is to stay with the same attorney because of some sense of loyalty or something.
Speaker 2:In this vetting out process in the beginning, like how important is it? And a lot of people in the community use parental alienation and sometimes it's a good word. Sometimes I think it's just divisive and isn't very useful. But how important is it that an attorney you go to has like a working knowledge of a particular thing In this case we're going to say parental alienation as part of their repertoire? Is that like an automatic yes or no, based on what the answer to that is?
Speaker 1:Well, I certainly think if you are going after a specific legal issue, you want to make sure that the attorney practices in that area. You wouldn't go to a personal injury attorney to file bankruptcy, because they're totally different areas of law. So you want to make sure that what the issue is is something that that attorney practices, but I don't know that they necessarily need to exclusively practice in that or that they need to be some kind of expert. Though I'm a specialist in my area of law, not everybody is and there's a lot that goes into it and I don't think that having that specialized attorney necessarily gives you some kind of benefit. I will say having a working knowledge and practicing in it is probably more important than anything. You don't want an attorney that's never handled a parental alienation case or has never been exposed to a parental alienation case, because that's going to be a challenge for you. And one of the ways that I think you can really figure out if an attorney has the understanding of the area of law is to see if they're going to tell you the weaknesses. Again, the weaknesses are the hardest part to explain to a client and you have to understand both sides of the law. You also typically have to have participated in some kind of loss right, seen it play out or, if you didn't participate in it, be in front of the court that makes those decisions often enough so you can see the negative sides of it.
Speaker 1:So I do think you want an attorney that understands the laws and the fact application enough to be able to present your case in a way that's going to be persuasive. But that's really hard to do when you're not in this. So that's going to be persuasive, but that's really hard to do when you're not in this. So that's where I would say circle back and see hey, attorney, what is my weakness? How are we going to handle the fact that I had a DUI with the kids in the back of the car last week, but I still want to keep my children right, if they're? If your attorney is saying, oh, it's no big deal, it's no big deal, like you're never going to lose your kids, oh my gosh, big deal. Right, that's a big issue. If your attorney is only telling you that you have a stellar case, then they probably don't know enough about the area and it may be time to at least talk to other attorneys to see if you feel more comfortable with a different one okay, just to circle back to your book a little bit.
Speaker 2:I know your book is about. Is it more about self-representation or is it about best practices and looking for an attorney? Can you just open up that lens for a little bit so we can contextualize it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 1:So I do have parts of the book that go over whether the benefits to an attorney, whether you need an attorney and how best to utilize an attorney.
Speaker 1:But much of the book is directed for individuals to understand the divorce process, whether you have an how to go through a mediation versus whether litigation and strategic trials are necessary, and then give real life examples, because I've seen again thousands and thousands, but chances are the client or you have seen maybe your situation and your handful of friends right, but that's it.
Speaker 1:So getting other people's stories can help make you feel like you're not alone, which is really important in a divorce situation. But it can also help you say, okay, maybe I was shooting for the moon, or maybe maybe I'm being unreasonable or, oh, I shouldn't necessarily give in. So it gives you a little bit of perspective as to what real people have really gone through in their specific divorces. And that was my goal to have it be utilized by self-represented individuals as they're navigating their own process, hopefully giving them some tips and tricks that they can use, but also having it be a supplement if you're represented by an attorney, so that you can understand the process and maybe help you take some questions to your attorney so that you feel better about the representation or how your case is being handled.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that it can help both sets of people, and also like this whole idea of empowerment and agency and reading and learning about the process so you can best advocate for yourself or ask questions that might be useful in the court system and what's going on and if you're with the correct person. So that sounds phenomenal and I'm excited to hear more about that. And I'm going to jump into a couple more questions. We'll circle back to the book where it feels like it's relating. I'm going to jump into a couple more questions. We'll circle back to the book where it feels like it's relating. So what are the signs when an attorney is not handling a case? I'm going to use the word efficiently, but I don't know if efficiently covers every kind of thing. But like what are some like hotspots that you would say are relatively easy to identify?
Speaker 1:Well, again, I think we go back to the gut feeling. Right, If you're feeling like you are not getting the answers that you want or your case isn't being handled the way that you want, I think that is a really good sign that something isn't going right. What I would really have people ask is are you upset because you're losing, which isn't necessarily an attorney's fault? Right, we're presented with the laws. We don't make the laws, we just get to be the messenger in the situation of the laws. And then we're also presented with these facts that we have no control over, because our clients walk in with this big box of baggage and all of these facts and now we're expected to put them all together to hopefully get our clients as close to their goal as possible. But sometimes, as an attorney, I tell people we can only round those square edges, right, we can't again take you as an alcoholic that got a DUI with your kids in the back of the car to getting sole legal custody. If that's what you're looking for, it's not practical, it's not going to happen. And so if you're losing because of things that are out of the attorney's control, like the laws or the facts, the things that you did.
Speaker 1:That's different than being unhappy with your attorney's representation, and understanding the difference, I think, is key. Your attorney should be communicating with you. You should feel like you have access to information, whether that's through the attorney or through somebody in their office, and you should feel like you understand where the direction of your case is going. What is the goal? Does your attorney understand your goal? Is your attorney communicating with you? Why, or why not, they're taking certain action, and do you feel like you and the attorney are on the same team, working toward the same goal, or not? And if you don't feel like those are happening, then it's probably time to again reevaluate. Can you talk to your attorney and see if maybe it's just a communication issue and you can work through it, or have you really reached a point where representation isn't going to be working and it's time to part ways?
Speaker 2:And just like on a really basic level, what would be the expectation of a client, if they're communicating with their attorney, to get a response or to get access to information? I heard you say access to information. There should be a flow within the office, whether through their attorney or through staff. But what's reasonable for a response back from your attorney?
Speaker 1:Well, this is going to be a very lawyer answer. The standard that we're held to by at least the California State Bar is reasonable communication and that is different from what a client might consider reasonable. You are so stressed with your case and we understand that. It's your life, it's your kids, it's your money, and so the fact that you're staying up all night thinking about it is reasonable. But it's not reasonable to think that your attorney is also staying up all night. Goodness, I hope attorneys aren't staying up all night. I hate when I stay up all night thinking about client cases. It doesn't help me, it doesn't make me a better attorney. So you want your attorney to be sleeping at night and that means they're not going to be responding right away. So, depending on if it's a Saturday and you have a horrific exchange, child exchange that happened, maybe not expecting a response until Monday, I think those kinds of things are really important to be aware of that. Your stress level doesn't dictate whether it's reasonable or not reasonable, and then I like to go by.
Speaker 1:The rule in my office is that we give some kind of response within 24 business hours. It may not be a comprehensive answer, but it's going to be something that acknowledges the question and sets up some kind of plan to get the answer, whether that's a follow-up from somebody else in my office, a meeting with me that's scheduled, or a letter, but where there's some path toward getting that client the information. We in my office have a 24 business hour deadline that we've implemented. But again, you know, if somebody wants an attorney that's going to answer the phones on the weekends, I'm not the right fit. But there are attorneys out there. So understanding how your attorney's office works is going to dictate what I think an appropriate amount of time is. If you've set it up so that they're on call for you and now all of a sudden they're not, that would be maybe something that would be considered unreasonable. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:It does make sense. And also, like you're saying, you have a 24 hour response within your office and you're talking about California law and you're saying reasonable response time. So if I'm thinking a reasonable response time is within two working, two business working days. That sounds reasonable to me and would you say, if you're not getting responses within a couple days of working days, that that could potentially be a hotspot or that just is not acceptable.
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, I think it depends when I say a response. I think it depends what you're asking. And so, again in my office, just for how I like to practice, I want to get some response to the client within 24 hours, but that doesn't mean that, again, their question is going to be answered. If you've asked me for an entire legal analysis or to go through an entire proposed settlement with you, you're not going to get that response in 24 hours, but you will get within 24 hours a call from my office or an email saying hey, let's set you up to meet with Rachel, maybe next week or when I'm available. So that's really important to understand and then keep in mind. It really depends what the issue is.
Speaker 1:I've had clients that have said I want to know when the next court date is. Well, to me, as the owner of a law firm, that's an easy thing. We should just get that off of our plate and give the information right away. On the other hand, from a reasonable standpoint, maybe the court hearing isn't for six months and so if I wait two weeks to get the information back to the client, was it reasonable in the scope? I would say you should still get that information to your client as quickly as possible.
Speaker 1:But I think you need to look at the history of the interaction between yourself and your attorney to figure out if it's gone away from what was normal and now it's not reasonable. I know you want me to give you a hard number. I mean like a fixed answer. So I would say if you haven't received some kind of response or acknowledgement from your attorney within 48 business hours, it's appropriate to follow up with them and to find out why. And then I will say nobody wants to hear this either. The squeaky wheel gets the grease right. So if you become that annoying client, you're probably going to get your questions answered faster than the person that just waits to hear from their attorney.
Speaker 2:That all makes perfect sense and I think it also ties back to the beginning of the conversation is you can actually set up agreements with your attorneys and set up expectations that you can both agree on. Not like I need you in five minutes, but hey, is it reasonable to assume that you're going to respond to me within 24 hours or 48 hours when I have something during the week, during business days, and you're actually establishing that? And this comes back to advocating for yourself, and I think it's part of what your book presents is people looking at what's happening, what the best practices are, how to show up for themselves and not defer all our power to a professional who is doing something we can't do and, at the same time, needs to be working within the spectrum of what we're wanting out of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and don't be upset with an attorney because they can't provide it. It's just not the right fit and again, that's okay. There's lots of different ways of practicing, so it doesn't need to become a contentious issue. I don't. I mean, I am an attorney and I can tell you I would never want to pay an attorney my hourly rates if I didn't trust them or wasn't feeling confident in the representation. That's a waste of money. So it's okay to say you know what? I have this expectation. You can't perform on that expectation and so it's just time to represent different people. And I think that's really hard, especially when you're in your case, to pull the plug on your attorney. So I you know, if there's one takeaway, it's that it's okay, we're professionals, we're not offended, and to the extent that an attorney is offended, wow, really good for you to get out of that like another reason to part ways.
Speaker 2:And then this is a question that I hear all the time. So this is a trade and exchange of money for a service and a professional providing something that we can't provide. And it feels like there's a lot of times where it feels like there's just like billing and billing and billing, and not necessarily a lot of movement and not necessarily any forward momentum, like how do you talk about that or what do you share with clients or in your book for people to kind of like how do you manage and navigate that? Because that scales can get really, really heavy and can become such a focus on the whole equation of what's happening in court. Wow, that was a great show. It was a little bit different than I thought it would go Very, very attorney stuff going on and some really great stuff to think about and really resize, like this idea of some of us have where we have conflicts with our attorneys and what that looks like. And we actually learned some practical stuff we can do to take care of ourselves and put ourselves in the best situation to win.
Speaker 2:And the best, best tip is coming up in the second part of the show. So 100% don't miss that. And I really appreciate Rachel's cadence and the way she represents, how she is doing law. You know which I like. I like the transparency, I like the communication, I like the accountability and I also like that hey, we have a responsibility in this relationship too to be in it or not be in it. And also how she talks about attorneys having that same kind of responsibility to themselves to really discern what makes sense for them to represent or not. So great, great first part of the show.
Speaker 2:Um, thank you for coming out and playing in the yard with us for a little bit. Uh, there's going to be some great stuff in the show notes. If you haven't come to any of the free support group meetings, they are wonderful. They're 12 step based and, uh, yeah, there's a good amount of work to do on yourself and they're in a wonderful, thriving, beautiful, supportive community. Parental Alienation Anonymous. Come on by, you know, drop by the website, check that out if that feels useful. Everything's in the show notes and please like and share and ask questions and engage us, whether it's on YouTube or one of our other social media channels.
Speaker 2:We want to hear more. We want to hear if this is useful and you want more. We want to hear if this sucks and you don't want more. You know something. Anyway, with that being said, I'm tired of talking, and thanks for coming out again, and if no one said this to you today yet, I love you. I hope you're having a beautiful day and I hope some folks out there love me too. I'm in need of a little bit of love today, feeling a little bit underwater emotionally and and I get to do this and be of service in community, so I'm incredibly grateful. So see you around the neighborhood. Thanks for taking the time to join me on this episode of family disappeared podcast. Do you know someone who can benefit from what we're discussing on today's episode? If so, please share this podcast with them and anyone else in your community that might be interested in changing their lives. Together, we'll continue the exploring, growing and healing journey. I will see you on our next episode. Until then, happy days to all.