Family Disappeared

Anxious Parents, Anxious Kids: Perpetuating, a Cycle of Parental Alienation, Estrangement and Erasure Part 2- Episode 76

• Lawrence Joss

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In this episode of the Family Disappeared podcast, Lawrence Joss continues his conversation with therapist Emily Moon, discussing the complexities of parenting, especially in the context of parental alienation. They explore the importance of community support, transitioning from a protective to a providing role, the significance of discipline and boundaries, and the value of quality relationships over quantity. Emily emphasizes self-care and personal growth for parents, while also providing actionable strategies for positive parenting.

Key Takeaways

  • Parenting mistakes can lead to harmful dynamics.
  • Establishing a supportive community is crucial.
  • Transitioning from protection to provision is essential.
  • Discipline should be consistent and respectful.
  • Quality relationships matter more than quantity.
  • Self-care is vital for effective parenting.
  • Children thrive in safe and consistent environments.
  • Fun and joy are important aspects of parenting.
  • Parents should avoid negative talk about the other parent.
  • It's okay to let children love both parents.

Episode Highlights
00:00 Introduction to Parenting Challenges
04:20 Building a Supportive Community
07:12 Transitioning from Protection to Provision
10:54 Discipline and Boundaries in Parenting
16:31 Quality Over Quantity in Relationships
21:16 Personal Growth and Self-Care
24:40 Positive Parenting Strategies

Emily Moon: https://www.emilymoon.life/

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This podcast is made possible by the Family Disappeared Team:
Anna Johnson- Editor/Contributor/Activist/Co-host
Glaze Gonzales- Podcast Manager

Connect with Lawrence Joss:
Website: https://parentalalienationanonymous.com/
Email- familydisappeared@gmail.com

Speaker 1:

We no longer can protect. So we need to move away from thinking that to now. I need to provide my children with wisdom, I need to provide them with coping skills, I need to provide them with role modeling, accountability. Whatever it is that these children need, we have to provide them with it. Really, the best way you can ultimately protect your child from making poor decisions and have them ready to launch when they're 18 is by providing them with all of the information they're going to need when they're 18, which is a lot.

Speaker 2:

There was a time in my life when I was overwhelmed and underwater. Those days are the inspiration for this podcast. This is by far the ultimate healing journey for all of us. Healing ourselves emotionally, spiritually and physically is paramount to this journey. From this place of grounding we can all go out into the world and change all our interactions and relationships. We can engage people from an integrated and resourced place. This is a journey of coming home to ourselves. In today's episode we'll start to explore some of these issues. Let's begin the healing journey today. Welcome to the Family Disappeared podcast.

Speaker 3:

Hi, my name is Lawrence Joss and welcome to the Family Disappeared podcast. Today we have the second part of the taping with Emily Moon, who is a therapist. She does parenting classes, q&a. She has a bunch of great, great, great information, as you can tell from the first half of the interview. If you're new to the community, welcome, I love having you here. There's a bunch of great resources in the show notes. There's a link to our free 12-step program. There's a link to the Family Hope Project, which is a worldwide virtual art gallery where we get to share part of our stories through some form of art music, drawing, paintings, whatever that is with other people around the world and we get to advocate for, for change through this platform. And, uh, there's also emily's contact information in the show notes if you want to find out more about her or contact her, and you can always contact us at family disappeared at gmailcom, and we'd love to hear what you have to say guests, subjects likes, dislikes or whatever that is and please remember to like and share. You know, wherever you're hearing us or wherever you're listening. And uh, with that, let's jump into the show.

Speaker 3:

I made a lot of parenting mistakes. I thought I was doing the right thing, and I'll share this one with you, which I'm not sure if I've shared before. But my oldest daughter was going into her last year of college and I paid for her college, which was my pleasure it's one of those things I could give my kids that no one could take back and she hadn't spent a holiday with me since she was 18. And I was really hurt and frustrated and I was trying all these different strategies that so many of us have tried and just thinking this would go away or change. I still didn't know the word parental alienation at this point, and for a senior year of college, I'm like, hey, if you don't go to therapy with me, I'm not going to continue to pay for your education. And I really thought that that was not a lot to ask, considering that I was paying for education. But what I want to point out to you is I had established this way of relating with her and paying for education, even though we weren't really having much communication and we weren't working on whatever was going on in the family system. So all of a sudden, three years into our college experience or her college experience, I'm like, hey, therapy, or you need to figure out how to pay for your college.

Speaker 3:

And she showed up at therapy and I was OK with her showing up with her mother and I triangulated her mother into this situation, and I didn't know what the word triangulation was. But just to get my daughter to therapy seemed like the goal was. But just to get my daughter to therapy seemed like the goal. Little did I know that I completely undermined it by having her mother come as well, because that's the only way I thought I could get her there, which I don't believe to be true today. I was just thinking that that was, my access point to my daughter was through my ex-wife, and it wasn't. And I drag her to therapy and I'm talking about therapy, and I want to be in therapy, and if we're not in therapy, I can't pay for a school and therapy sessions over. And I realized, oh crap, that is messed up.

Speaker 3:

What I just did to my daughter was counterproductive, hurtful, violent to some degree, like I've helped her establish this ecosystem with me paying for something without really having any kind of boundaries. And then one day I decided to change the rules. No conversation, just this is what it's going to be. It's black and white and I did it out of desperation. I did it because I love her so much. I did it because I just wanted a relationship with her. I just wanted to get to love her and I so desperately wanted her to love me in the way I wanted to be loved and I created some harm.

Speaker 3:

And what I did after I realized that which was after our therapy session is I made sure to take care of her and pay for her college and we've never spoken about it. I don't have a relationship with my oldest daughter right now. I love her and I'm available and I'm parenting without access and it's really beautiful and it's changing and evolving, which is nutty when I say it out loud, but it's real for me. And if you haven't listened to some of the other shows, check them out. Listen to more about parenting without access and what that means. And wow, that was a long story from me, and with that, let's see what else Emily has to say. Today there's an extreme case of counter-parenting. What are two or three things that you could tell the parents out there that are feeling that this is part of the dynamic? What are the two or three most important things you can tell them to do when they're in this situation?

Speaker 1:

I think it's really, really important that you have a really strong community of supporters, that you've got to talk through this stuff with a really very well-trained therapist or friends, and we can't exhaust one friend, we've to have several because this is so big. So we've got to have a good community of support. And then I think, just remembering you know that whether, whatever you believe in the universe, a higher power, whatever, that it's not always on us, and that you know there's a flow in life and that oftentimes children will come back or oftentimes, you know, in a year's time things kind of settle down. But there's a flow in the universe and in our high power. And just to know that, like, usually the trajectory is up in life usually and things will get better, even though we don't see them now, but history would suggest that they do, you know, and so just to hang in there, and that you know our feelings sometimes lie to us and when everything feels like it's falling apart and that we're terrible parents and nobody loves us, that those are just feelings and sometimes we lie, you know we believe the lies.

Speaker 1:

And then there's some great resources, great books out there to help with parenting. And so I say educate yourself. Educate yourself in how to deal with this, and then, whatever you have to do to like find your identity again, because so many people lose their identity through this. And and then, don't forget how to have fun. Remember how to have fun and go have some fun too. That's super important.

Speaker 3:

I love it. Yeah yeah, you covered great stuff Community, not just one person, you did a bunch of people, support groups, finding yourself, finding purpose in your life and joy, laughter, play and education. I think you knocked it out of the ballpark on that one. I really appreciate that answer and I'm going to move into this. You had mentioned this when we had spoken on our intake call about moving from the role of the protective role to the providing role for children. Can you talk about what that means to you?

Speaker 1:

Sure. So, both in my own personal experience and then what I experienced in my practice, parents will come in and say you know, I want to protect my child and I say to them you know you no longer can protect your child because the other parent whether they have them, 50% of the time, 30%, whatever the percent is you don't live in the same house with the parent, you guys no longer share the same beliefs or you're not parenting together in any way, and so you can't protect them. They're going to have outside influences. The parent may get a step parent, the kids may be able to date someone you don't like I mean whatever it is and so we no longer can protect. So we need to move away from thinking that to now.

Speaker 1:

I need to provide my children with wisdom, I need to provide them with coping skills. I need to provide them with role modeling accountability. I need whatever it is that these children need. We have to provide them with role modeling accountability. I need whatever it is that these children need. We have to provide them with it. And that's really the best way you can ultimately protect your child from making poor decisions and have them ready to launch when they're 18 is by providing them with all of the information they're going to need when they're 18, which is a lot all of the information they're going to need when they're 18, which is a lot.

Speaker 3:

I love that idea. I hadn't heard it before. You mentioned that the protective to the providing, and really I see that in myself. I was trying to protect my kids, show them the right way through, protecting them through kind of like this good and bad and black and white thinking, and then once I started providing them situations and role modeling and building community and then seeing how other communities communicated with each other and the differences in how families showed up, I think that had a profound effect on them that is affecting their lives today and it wasn't about me. You know, protecting or beating it into them or pushing it into them or protecting it into them was actually something that they got to feel. Actually, I'm thinking embodiment, I'm thinking the kids. If they're watching it and being part of community, they start to embody it themselves and they have a lived experience in their body that can't get erased.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And if they attach to it. You know, if they attach to that feeling, yeah, absolutely. And I think you were saying something about kind of I don't know in my mind. What came up for me when you were talking is just kind of like loving your kids with like open hands instead of trying to hold on to them so tight, and that can be really amazing for a child to experience a parent that way, and oftentimes, when we are going through alienation situations, we do want to hold on so tight. And so I have a conversation with parents a lot about how, you know, we got to. You know, not parent out of fear, and we might, you know, we open our hands and we just kind of like love them, but we can't smother them and hold on to them, and so that is one thing that I talk a lot about is parenting out of fear.

Speaker 1:

I find that a lot of parents get so scared of losing their kids and so they become pushovers.

Speaker 1:

A parent loses their backbone or they won't enforce things because they're always the bad parent.

Speaker 1:

And so you know, I remember when my oh my God, when my daughter came home, I got them three days a weekend or three days a month and they'd come home and I was certain I was going to be you know, the parent that I thought I should be, and so I remember one time I got so mad at my daughter and she got in trouble and I sent her to her room and I cried at the bottom of the steps and she was crying at the top of the steps and it was a disaster at the bottom of the steps and she was crying at the top of the steps and it was a disaster.

Speaker 1:

But you know I but they knew that I was not a pushover and they knew that I meant what I said. And it was very, very tough to parent that way when it would have been a lot easier to just give in. But again we go back to like that's respectful and that's one thing we want to teach our kids is to respect adults and respect authority and and to respect rules and and other human beings. So I have no idea how I just got on that subject, I'm gonna tell you. But I hope that was enjoyable.

Speaker 3:

No, I think it's great and it's so complex. Like how do we parent? How do we parent with this open hand and love our kids and give them space and not completely let go or surrender in the same breath? And again, for everyone out there in the community listen, this is good, good stuff and take care of yourself and make sure you're taking a breath, you know, pausing the show or doing whatever you need to take care of yourself, because this is, this is rich and meaningful stuff. And we're going to jump into this next question. It's like how do you discipline the kids right? Like what does discipline look like when you're in the middle of this conflict? You're trying to hold an open hand, but if you hold the open hand and you discipline at the same time, the kids are going to completely disappear in fear. Like that's my fear thought. Like how does that look?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and sometimes they do, you know, I mean, but that's the thing is that. That's the thing is, you know, we can't abandon our beliefs, we can't abandon what we believe to be true, what we know is right for us and for our family, for our children, and so that goes into that. You know, how do you discipline? Well, how did you discipline before? You know, and I don't mean this, we're not having a debate on should you spank or not, that's. And I don't mean this, we're not having a debate on should you spank or not, that's not. I don't think that's what we're talking about. But more you know, how do you logical consequences, whatever those might be, for a family, and how do you stick with having logical consequences and instituting those when you know that that might cause you to lose your child because the other parent will use it against you?

Speaker 1:

But you know, this is my personal belief and people can take it or not. But no matter who you are, whether you're my child or my spouse or my best friend or my parent, I'm not going to allow somebody to disrespect me or run all over me, because that's then when I lose myself. I lose, you know, a sense of safety within my own body, because now I don't have any boundaries anymore and I began to take whatever the crumbs that somebody offers me. And so if I make these habits, in a way of being acting, the way in which I start defining love is through crumbs and being yelled at as a parent, then that I'm going to lose myself. And also what I'm allowing my children to do is probably not ideal, because then they'll take that more than likely into their relationship when they get a little bit older.

Speaker 1:

But you know, if us being us, if me being me and who I am and what I believe causes me to lose anybody, whether it's my children or not, then I think I'm willing to do that. That's kind of where I got, because losing myself and my own dignity and self-respect, I did that for a little bit, no doubt, but I'm not really willing to do that anymore, no doubt, but I'm not really willing to do that anymore and it really felt bad when I let my kids run all over me or anybody. So I guess what I'm saying is we're accountable to instituting, I suppose, if that's the good word these logical consequences, whatever they might be, for your family, because to not do that would more than likely cause you to lose yourself and a lot of things that your boundary safety, all kinds of things.

Speaker 3:

Just to reflect back what I was hearing from you this idea of disciplining our kids. You really firmly believe that we need to show up, have boundaries, continue to discipline our kids, to teach them about respect, to have respect for ourselves, and in that process the system has a better chance of becoming a little bit healthier, Correct?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think you know, our kids are as healthy as we are.

Speaker 3:

And this isn't black and white for anyone out there. This is a conversation and actually, in the moment, dealing with some of these situations are so crazy, making what I thought was good discipline at a particular time. If you give me a day or a month or 10 years, I'm going to say whoa, that was some really, really, really crappy parenting. So this isn't a really black and white yes and no answer. This is take a breath, show up, lean into your community, do your work and come up with the next indicated best decision. And you've got to hold it lightly. The same way you're holding your kids with an open hand. You've got to hold yourself that way because you need to give yourself space to be imperfect, because if you're going to get this right, you can teach the rest of us what to do. Because I'm not there, you know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think maybe we define getting it right as just being open and willing to accept our humanity, you know, because I mean that we're going to get it wrong. But maybe getting it right is really just about accepting that we're going to get it wrong, because really I believe that most of us do the best we can with what we have. What we know now, at our age, you know, is so different than what we knew in our 20s, 30s. So, yeah, that we're compassionate with ourself and just know that. You know, sometimes we have to use the good enough rule and sometimes we have to use the safe enough rule. We don't feel as safe as we'd like to, but we feel safe enough and that sometimes it's not great and it's not the way, you know, we would hope, but sometimes it's just good enough and that that's really helpful too.

Speaker 3:

He also brought up the idea of like crumbs, right, like a lot of us are just waiting for a text, or waiting for the word dad or mom or parent, or, or, or waiting for any kind of little bit of connection. And and there's, there's this thought that's coming up in my head here, this idea of crumbs when we're actively parenting. And then there's this idea of when we're learning to have a different kind of relationship with our kids and they're offering small amounts. So I think they're very different, like in the middle of the fight, these little crumbs where we're just taking anything that comes, versus building a healthy relationship and taking the small amount that is offered. Can you talk to that in your own relationships, how that looks, if that even makes any sense?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, really emphasizing quality over quantity is where I felt like I was able to get some traction, because I sure did not in moments get quantity but quality. I defined quality as a kind tone or maybe them saying I love you, you know. So I think that didn't. Some might say that was a crumb because I didn't talk to my kids or get to see my kids as often as one might thought I should have, but just recognizing like, yeah, the quality over quantity. And I would say this too that you know, I've realized again, personally and professionally this hurts us way more than it hurts the kids in the moment. I mean the kids, they've got their own life truly. I mean they're blossoming, they're growing and not to say that they don't have their own trauma, they will.

Speaker 1:

I think everybody lands on the couch in this life, the couch meaning the therapist's couch, no matter what, whether our parents are divorced or not, I mean life is just hard. But as kids grow up it's developmentally appropriate that around seventh grade their friends become, you know, kind of super important by high school. It's their family. And so one of the things I see is, you know, parents falling apart. And I explained to them you know it's hurting you a little bit more than it hurts them, because we have unconditional love for our children.

Speaker 1:

But love is top down. It goes from the top down to the children and that's a different kind of love that parents have, rather than top up or bottom up. So you know, I know my parents loved me in a way, a different kind of way than I love them. Does that make sense? And I know I may be going into very muddy waters here, but I'm saying this as a way for parents to know that it's okay, they're going to be okay in that, yes, it hurts you so bad, but a lot of times it doesn't hurt the kids as bad as it hurts us. If they don't talk to us every day or if you know they're giving us crumbs. It kills us, but the kids are just doing their life and going to play soccer later and probably don't even think about half of it as much as we do until they get older.

Speaker 3:

Right, right, and they got to process their own stuff. Yeah, right, right, right to survive, get on with their life, get to a soccer game, just get from moment to moment and just I think they in some aspects, are able to be a little bit more present with just what's happening moment to moment than we are as we're future tripping and looking at the past and stuff like that. So I think that's a that's a great point to to bring into that and, like for you personally, over your course of your journey and I know that you're, you know, had alienation with as a kid and and as an adult and as an apparent like what would you say have been the four or five most profound things that you've done for yourself that have changed the trajectory of your story to some degree.

Speaker 1:

I'll tell you, I spent a lot of time alone. I think that's super important. You know, we see parents immediately jump in relationships and, I think, going through the pain of being alone and realizing, you know, when I started this journey, I did not know who I was. I just knew that I liked the candle on my table and I liked my couch, and that is literally about all I knew about myself. And so, you know, just taking the time to learn who I was, so that that was huge. And then I think the other piece truly is like to remember and to learn how to have fun. I think fun is so underrated and we forget about it, but that's the heart of a child underrated and we forget about it, but that's the heart of a child. You see little kids strolling down the grocery aisle, singing, and they just have so much joy.

Speaker 1:

And I think life is hard and we tend to work hard, and you know, fill ourselves up, fill our empty hole with things, and it filled pain up and so I think you know, learning to go like just have fun being in nature, putting your feet in the ground, like just doing some good, wholesome stuff to take care of yourself so self-care, you know. So I think that's super important. Developing really quality friends maybe not so much quantity, but like just really good people that you vibe with I think is so important. And I think also just apologizing, like being open and willing to be vulnerable and being introspective and showing up in a relationship and doing what you need to do to do your work and make it better. These are some of the things that I have found.

Speaker 3:

So I heard you say a couch, a candle, yeah, which I think is beautiful, and just the simplicity of when we first start along this journey, like not knowing up from down and dark from light and everything that you thought was real and wasn't real, like just really grounding into a couch and a candle Sounds like the perfect start to the story. And I heard community, self-care, joy, laughter, play, you know, education. I think those are all wonderful, wonderful things. And as we're winding down here with the show, I want to what's? What's stuff that you would tell parents that they should avoid saying or doing?

Speaker 1:

So I think, with kids, you know, I think again, if we go back to, kids thrive in safety and consistency, and so what we want to avoid is, well, here's one thing I always like to say like, let's talk about, like what to do, because I could tell everybody, like don't do this. But sometimes I have found, like for me I don't know what to do, like so when I'm trying to change, I recognize I'm not supposed to go drink every night, but, like, what do I do in place of that? I'm not saying I do drink every night, I'm just giving an example. So so you know. So what, what they? Okay, so sorry, my son was calling and I thought I had it on, do not disturb, and anyway, I guess I didn't.

Speaker 3:

Yes, and before we do that, let's just celebrate that your son's calling Okay.

Speaker 1:

I know he's a jewel, he's a sweet, sweet one. I love my kids. They have, I will tell you, they have shown me the most unconditional love, and I've seen that not just with my kids, but I've seen that with a lot of families, and kids will come around and I'll tell you, I didn't come around until with my mom until I had my daughter, so I was 27. I mean it took a while. So everybody's, you know, has their timeline, but but it's yeah, it's, it's good, so okay.

Speaker 3:

I just I feel like like all of us are struggling trying to reestablish relationships with our kids. Or we have relationships with our kids and we're on a conversation talking about parental alienation and the struggles of it, and a reunited mom gets a call from her son on the call and we get to talk about it Like that's the show. I'm like like mic drop, go home. Like it's done, like how cool is that?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, thanks for pointing. Yeah, you know, I was just willing, ready to jump right over that, but now that you've slowed me down, yes, I think that's a beautiful thing right when we're having this conversation. Yeah, my kids came back when they were in college. So, yeah, I think everybody just different ages anyway.

Speaker 3:

Wonderful. Now I'll let you answer the question.

Speaker 1:

Yes, okay, what to do? What to do what to do, not what not to do. What to do what to do, what to do, not what not to do. What to do? I think what to do is to be accountable, to remain consistent, be consistent in your words and your actions and consistent rules that they don't change on a daily basis, that we support our children in having a loving relationship. And reminding our children that their heart is big and they can love many people at one time, although I will say that conceptually, younger children have a difficult time knowing how to love two parents that don't get along, but that goes into a whole other topic. So, just reminding kids that it's okay to love and that it's okay that they don't know how to do that.

Speaker 1:

And sometimes I even have a conversation with my parents when we have a really bad alienation case. We tell kids you know what. You don't have to tell your mom that you love me. You don't have to, I know it. That can be between us and it takes them out of the middle. Also, it's a gift to give your children and to recognize the signs, if it is a more severe case, to recognize the signs when your children are starting to what I call kind of snap or break under the pressure and knowing that sometimes love is defined as letting our kids go for a little bit. So you know, these are some.

Speaker 1:

I mean, we've talked about a lot of things to do, but these are just some things and I don't know if that's what you were. The obvious things are don't talk mean about dad or mom or don't limit them and who they can love, and don't take relationships away and blah. But sometimes I don't know, telling them what to do is more positive, I suppose. And then what? What they, what parents can do for themselves is, yeah, just remembering that this too shall pass and that it's important to not lose yourself through this so important because if we don't have you, your kids don't have, they've lost half of their chance because they've lost half of their parent, and that we don't have to have all the answers. This parenting thing is so dang hard and that a lot of parents won't understand this whole alienation thing. And so reminding yourself that there is no book on this and we're just doing the best we can, and we might look back in 20 years and say I wish I didn't do that, but at the time I did what I thought was right.

Speaker 3:

That was great, and just as we wrap up the show like a few on a personal basis, like, what services do you offer? I'm going to put all your information in the show notes so people can follow up if they have any questions or want to send an email or anything like that. But what else can people know about you or anything else that you're offering, so we can make sure that they have that available as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I will send information. But I do a parenting class, virtual, where you know, we have kind of like it's a six or eight week class, and then we have a Q&A, which I think is so amazing, so they can watch the video of kind of like what we're talking about. Pick a topic there's many topics, or maybe I'll go on and talk about it myself and then we have a Q&A, which I really love, so that parents can feel like they've got some kind of direction and some guidance, some real actionable steps. So that's one thing I do and I'm happy to answer any questions anybody has. I don't know what else I do other than my whole therapy practice and all of that, but people have access to me through the parenting stuff.

Speaker 3:

That's fantastic, emily. Well, thank you for coming out and for playing a little bit, and yeah, it was really cool. We went in different directions, up and down a little bit, we regrouped, reset and it's just like. It's really like parenting 101. We just explored it in a different way.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, thank you for going with me along the journey, so I appreciate it, and thanks for having me on your show. It's great, I love it, can't wait to hear it.

Speaker 3:

Well, awesome, have a beautiful evening and hopefully we get to talk soon.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, thank you, lawrence have a beautiful evening and hopefully we get to talk soon. Yeah, thank you Lawrence, wow, wow and wow, what an interesting show. We went in some different directions and I really appreciated Emily's quirkiness and, yeah, a lot, a lot, a lot of information that we spoke about and sometimes, you know, we got to dive a little bit deeper, and sometimes not quite as deep, but really, really useful. You know we got to dive a little bit deeper, and sometimes not quite as deep, but really, really useful. I'm really curious about what you found to be the most useful parts of the show. If there's certain subjects we're discussing, like you feel like maybe we could have dug a little bit deeper, or maybe we did dig deep enough and you just had some other questions, please let us know and we have some great shows coming up in the next couple of weeks. Make sure to stay tuned. If you're brand new, I hope you enjoyed the show.

Speaker 3:

We've got shows with all kinds of topics that are in the can. You just got to go back and listen to old episode with attorneys, therapists, community members. The panels are fantastic. If you're listening to this, it's right around the holidays there's holiday episodes. Make sure you check those stuff out. And, yeah, and check out the show notes again free 12 step program community, especially around the holidays, just such an important thing to have and other resources in the show notes. Emily stuffs in the show notes. We're a 501c3 nonprofit. We can use any kind of resources, donations, anything that feel appropriate to you to to to give so we can continue to help as many families and as many people as possible.

Speaker 3:

And with that, um, happy holidays. Thanks for coming out. I'm playing today. If no one's told you yet, today I love you. You know, man, love is important around the holidays and it's from a stranger, it's super important. If it's from someone you love, it's super important. And, uh, it's important for us to be able to share it with an open hand, as we discussed in the show today. So I hope you have a beautiful, beautiful day and I hope to see you around the neighborhood. Take it easy.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for taking the time to join me on this episode of Family Disappeared Podcast. Do you know someone who can benefit from what we're discussing on today's episode? If so, please share this podcast with them and anyone else in your community that might be interested in changing their lives. Together we'll continue the exploring, growing and healing journey. I will see you on our next episode. Until then, happy days to all.