Family Disappeared

Parental Alienation Recovery Using “The Work” by Byron Katie - Ep. 103

• Lawrence Joss

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In this episode, Lawrence Joss and John discuss Byron Katie's The Work, a transformative framework for addressing limiting beliefs and emotional pain. They explore the internal processes of dealing with trauma, the impact of thoughts on family dynamics, and the importance of personal agency in finding peace. John shares personal experiences and insights on how The Work has helped him and others navigate complex emotions and relationships, emphasizing the power of self-awareness and internal freedom.

Key Takeaways

  • It's all internal, and I can actually deal with it.
  • The Work is a phenomenal framework to work through limiting beliefs.
  • Every time you do The Work, it's a little bit different.
  • The thought creates anxiety and fear, but I'm still the same person.
  • I can find love for her after all we've gone through.
  • I don't need that person to change to find peace.
  • The Work allows me to continually find a place to go when things aren't working.
  • I've seen people's lives radically alter in doing The Work.
  • It's an empowerment model that doesn't have a fee associated with it.
  • The internal change can manifest outwardly in relationships.

Chapters

00:00 - Understanding Internal Freedom
02:55 - Exploring Byron Katie's The Work
06:01 - Navigating Family Dynamics
08:47 - The Power of Thought and Perception
12:02 - Agency and Personal Responsibility
15:05 - Transformation Through The Work
17:43 - Conclusion and Reflections

This link contains downloads for worksheets, a video library, podcasts, and more on Byron Katie’s work:

https://thework.com/

If you wish to connect with Lawrence Joss or any of the PA-A community members who have appeared as guests on the podcast:

Email - familydisappeared@gmail.com
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/lawrencejoss

(All links mentioned in the podcast are available in Linktree)

Please donate to support PAA programs:
https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=SDLTX8TBSZNXS

This podcast is made possible by the Family Disappeared Team:
Anna Johnson- Editor/Contributor/Activist/Co-host
Glaze Gonzales- Podcast Manager

Connect with Lawrence Joss:
Website: https://parentalalienationanonymous.com/
Email- familydisappeared@gmail.com

Speaker 1:

When something goes on where I think you know where someone has hurt me, I do know that it's all internal and that I can actually deal with it. I don't need that person to change in any way whatsoever, that I can look at what's going on internally and give myself freedom or peace.

Speaker 2:

There was a time in my life when I was overwhelmed and underwater. Those days are the inspiration for this podcast. This is by far the ultimate healing journey for all of us. Healing ourselves emotionally, spiritually and physically is paramount to this journey. From this place of grounding we can all go out into the world and change all our interactions and relationships. We can engage people from an integrated and resourced place. This is a journey of coming home to ourselves. In today's episode we'll start to explore some of these issues. Let's begin the healing journey today. Welcome to the Family Disappeared podcast. Hi, my name is Laurence Joss and welcome to the Family Disappeared podcast.

Speaker 2:

Today we have John on the show and he is talking about Byron Katie's the work, which is a phenomenal framework to work through some limiting beliefs.

Speaker 2:

And this is part two.

Speaker 2:

So if you haven't listened to part one, I really suggest going back and listening to part one, because it might be a little bit more difficult with this subject matter to jump directly into part two.

Speaker 2:

And these particular episodes are a different modality to be able to work with trauma, stress, emotional pain and other things like that, and we have a bunch of episodes in the can if you're looking for stuff specific around attorneys, therapists, panels of parents wanting to understand other people's experiences. So there's a lot of choices and the show is super great and I really appreciate John and it's really interesting thinking about all the things in my life that I thought were true and all these limiting beliefs that created so much pain and that have changed. You know I heard someone share at a meeting early on that time takes time and it took me a lot of time to see some of these thoughts change and as I started to work with modalities like the work now, I get to those changes and those opportunities and the understanding that my thoughts aren't real a lot of times and they're just framed in such a way that actually create more harm to myself and to everyone I'm around because I get stuck in them sometimes. So the work is transformational.

Speaker 2:

And that's a lot of words to start the show. Great resources in the show notes. We have a free 12-step program. Parental Alienation, anonymous, wonderful community, wonderful place to do some of the work. Not the specific work, but the work you do in the 12-step framework leads directly and folds into this kind of stuff. And yeah.

Speaker 2:

I think that's enough out of me Just reminding you familydisappeared at gmailcom. You can always email me with any questions, insights, please like, share, talk about this comment, let us know what's good, bad or indifferent, and with that let's jump into the show. I've done the work with several different people and the really neat thing about trying the work or having conversations even with different peoples every time you do it it's a little bit different. So my recommendation of this resonates with you is try having conversation or reading these questions with multiple different people. See where the conversations go, see what kind of relief you get. And there's a bunch of videos and stuff online around the work and we will hopefully be able to put some links in the show notes so you can actually see some other people running through this, and it must probably give you a little bit more information and a little bit better way to track some of the stuff we're discussing, because it does get a little bit dense and super interesting too. Let's see what happens and let's jump into the show. Enough out of me.

Speaker 1:

So my grandkids will never know who I am? Is it true?

Speaker 2:

I don't know enough information to know it's not true, but feeling it in my body and while talking to my middle daughter, it's definitely a thought that I have. But no, it's not true. I don't have enough information to tell you that it's 100% true.

Speaker 1:

And in that situation you're on the Zoom call. How do you react? What happens internally when you believe this thought? My grandchildren would never know who I am.

Speaker 2:

I feel sadness. I feel definitely some tension and some holding in my body and I also think that I will never know who I am. I feel sadness, I feel definitely some tension and some holding in my body and I also think that I will never know who they are. Like they're just a picture that I've seen a couple of times and, yeah, I think like they're not real is what happens as part of the conversation for me.

Speaker 1:

On the Zoom call. How do you treat your daughter when you believe this thought?

Speaker 2:

my grandchildren will never know who I am I don't think I treat her any differently because I've been dealing with it for so long and I have to compartmentalize it because I still want to have this conversation with my daughter, because it only happens every six years. So I don't think outwardly I treat her any differently.

Speaker 1:

I think and where do you feel it in your body when you believe this thought?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, definitely feel some pressure in my chest. When I believe that my grandkids will never know who I am, I feel tightening in my throat. I feel some emotion in my eyes, definitely kind of like a suffocating feeling in my throat, like it feels a little bit harder to breathe. I think is the main place that I'm feeling something.

Speaker 1:

And so, in this situation, you're there on the Zoom call.

Speaker 2:

Who would you be without this thought? My grandchildren will never know who I am. I'm still my middle daughter's father. I'm still Lawrence. I'm okay. Life is okay. Nothing really has changed. The thought is definitely creating some anxiety and fear and emotions and stuff like that, but I'm still the same person.

Speaker 1:

And so turn the thought around my grandchildren will never know who I am.

Speaker 2:

My grandchildren will never know who I am. I will never know who my grandchildren are.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, just as you're talking to your daughter, I will never know who my grandchildren are.

Speaker 2:

One example would be you know, it's like if it's their birthday or something. I'm not seeing how they react, how they talk. I'm never, ever going to see my grandson being born or my grandson being one year old.

Speaker 1:

It feels super real and let's look at another turnaround. How about if you put yourself on all of it?

Speaker 2:

I will never know who I am. Okay, I will never know who I am, but it's super, not true? I'm learning about myself and loving myself and finding out all different components of myself and in the context of in the telephone call.

Speaker 1:

Can you find any example of I will never know who I am?

Speaker 2:

not really. I'm feel super embodied. I feel like I really showed up on the call, that I let the call unfold and didn't really need to control it or change it. So I fully actually felt like I showed up knowing who I was. I didn't create any additional harm or do anything that I would have done in the past and have done in the past.

Speaker 1:

Good, and so you're not finding any truth in that turnaround, which is fine.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, In the turnaround, and I've done so much work to get to that point. But if I would have been doing the same turnaround two years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago, there would have been so much stuff that I would have found that I would have created just in that conversation. You know Good. And are there any other sub-questions, anything else that would be useful in contextualizing that or working with that that maybe we didn't touch on?

Speaker 1:

Most of the sub-quest questions are in question number three. That's where. How do I react? What happens internally when I believe this thought, the images of the past and future we didn't do that this time when it's in my body? What's in it for me to have this thought? In other words, what am I getting by having this thought?

Speaker 2:

Okay, so there's a lot of little nuances. We didn't necessarily get into that we could get into. Okay, cool.

Speaker 1:

One thing that I do is if I'm, you know, looking at, I think I'm the worst parent in the world. I go back to that question of how do I react when I think that she thinks I'm the worst parent in the world. Well, you know how did I treat her? I shut down. You know, that's where I'm the worst parent in the world internally, right. Or I think I'm the worst parent because I'm shutting down, et cetera.

Speaker 2:

Got it. So, yeah, when we're thinking that they think that I'm the worst parent and I'm thinking that the shutdown, the being unavailable emotionally to them and to others you know what I mean Even though the thoughts with them, it affects every single relationship in my life. Yes, that's super useful when I look at that, because the other relationships I have in my life suffer a lot when I believe that thought, yeah, so one turnaround is I'm the worst parent in the whole world. When I believe that my daughter thinks I'm the worst parent, and what would be another turnaround with that?

Speaker 2:

I think she's the worst daughter in the whole world. Well, yes, yeah, like I think she's the worst daughter in the whole world and, with a turnaround, also being like I think she's the most narcissistic person in the whole world, or does it need to be specific to the question? Keep it the wording the same okay, okay, I think she's the worst daughter in the whole world, wording the same okay, okay, I think she's the worst daughter in the whole world.

Speaker 1:

And I I don't believe that, but I do feel it coming up as part of a regurgitation or a reaction, definitely and just looking in that context, you know how do I look at her, how do I see her when I think she's thinking I'm because of course you don't think she's the worst daughter in the world. And in that context, do you see what I'm saying In the context of where you're thinking?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because she has this negative thought about me, then I'm having this negative thought about her.

Speaker 1:

Right, exactly, you were finding it, it was fine. I was just trying to keep it in the context of this thought. When I'm having this thought and I'm seeing these images of her and how she's walking away from me, or I'm seeing those image, that's where I think she's the worst daughter in the world okay.

Speaker 2:

So then once I have this turnaround and I'm thinking she's the worst daughter in the whole world within that context then what's the next step on the process?

Speaker 1:

move to the next thought okay.

Speaker 2:

So once I can see my projection about her being this really bad person in this situation because she has these thoughts about me, then I'm going to feel some kind of relief. I'm going to feel some kind of freedom. I can see like it's just a thought that doesn't really have anything to do with reality.

Speaker 1:

I don't know how internally it's going to work for you. For me sometimes it's like oh wow, you know it was me creating this whole reality. She's just walking away, I'm putting it back in the street, but in my mind I'm creating this whole thing, that she thinks I'm the worst parent in the world and I created this whole world and she's just walking away. So that for me there's a freedom in that, Because it's internal, it's not her.

Speaker 2:

Right, so she's working away. She's having a boundary, she's just moving's not her right? So she's working away, she's having a boundary, she's just moving on with her day. And I'm going on with all these thoughts and projections. I'm the worst parent in the whole world and as I work through this, I get to see that, oh, this is just my inner ecosystem. I'm creating this. I'm creating this pain and suffering for myself and as I work through the process, it gives me some space and some relief from this particular limiting thought. Right?

Speaker 1:

Exactly.

Speaker 2:

This doesn't seem like it's linear, like sometimes I can work with the thought and I can find some relief, and then that thought comes back again in the same exact way or in a different form, and then I just go back to the worksheet and continue to work with it.

Speaker 1:

Or write a new worksheet I mean, I've done 100 worksheets at least on my former wife and what it does for me personally, and the reason why I keep going back to it is it brings me back to the possibility of now. Because if I'm in my mind thinking about how she wronged me, my mind thinking about how she wronged me, how she dumped me, how she rejected me, I'm back in that past life and I'm internally jumping into a future life where no one's ever going to love me. And when I do the work, I come back to oh, I'm right here. This is the moment. What's life got to offer me? Life is this amazing thing that right now is full of immense possibility and, without my brain jumping in the past or the future, I have the possibility. I'm open right.

Speaker 2:

And if we just stay with like you thought, hey, my wife rejected me, my wife left me, my partner left me, whatever it is, and guessing like I'm unlovable, no one's ever going to love me again, I'm always going to be alone. I would think those are some thoughts that would come up with that. And then, like the turnaround is oh, I love myself.

Speaker 1:

Again, I would invite you not to do those thoughts on myself. I'm unlovable. What I would do, however, is my wife leaving me means I'm unlovable.

Speaker 2:

So, as my wife leaving me means I'm unlovable, do you come back to the place like, oh, I am lovable, but that's still making it about yourself. Or when my wife leaves me, I am lovable. I don't understand that transition.

Speaker 1:

For me. If I can ground myself in a moment, then it's a lot easier for me to look at how I react, how I look at her. If I can go to a moment where she rejected me. I mean, I can remember a time we were in therapy and the therapist asked her if two people work on their stuff together, you know it's amazing what can happen. And he asked her you know, are you willing to work on your stuff with him? And she said no, in my mind at least. And for me to go back to there that she rejected me right then. And there I can see how I collapsed. I can see how I looked at her and how I looked at myself. If I can go back to that moment, you know, after asking the questions, how I react, and you know who would I be without it? I can see oh, she didn't reject me, she was just just saying I can't do this. It's just. You know, it wasn't about me.

Speaker 2:

So you were able to see that it wasn't a personal attack on you. She was just at capacity and that's where she was in her life and that's the best that she could do. And that's really yeah, those are acting on her own behalf and it didn't have anything to do with you.

Speaker 1:

Right. So you said you know you'd have these thoughts that I'm not lovable, which certainly I have had a lot of times. So for me to go back to that moment and to say her rejecting me means I'm not lovable, it helps me have enough distance to question it without getting involved in my little ego trying to make myself lovable, or you know. It just does that make sense? I don't know if I'm explaining it well enough it makes sense.

Speaker 2:

I think it's a little bit hard to grasp for people that are just listening. It's a little bit complicated. So what can we offer folks that are listening? Because we're trying to do the interview and we're going in some different directions and some of it might be digestible and some of it might be confusing. But is there stuff on you said the workcom? Is that what you said? The website?

Speaker 1:

was yeah the workcom.

Speaker 2:

Are there videos out there? Are there recordings of people doing the work? Where do people find that kind of stuff so they can really understand what's happening and be able to probably track it in a little bit more concise way.

Speaker 1:

On the work. There are also videos. I mean if you go to YouTube, if you search for Byron Katie, you'll find tons of videos.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I think that'd be useful and in your personal life, like you've been doing this, you said, for 27 to 28 years, like what have been the rewards that you can actually track in your life, that you relate back to doing this kind of work?

Speaker 1:

I see my former wife quite a bit because of our son. We have a grown son and she can still trigger me and I have found in doing the work that I can find that love for her that I've always had and the piece of still knowing that love for a person after all of what we've gone through is priceless and I don't think I would have found that without the work. And certainly there are times where she comes and again my buttons are pushed and I need to look at it again. The other thing I love about the work is agency. When something goes on where I think you know where someone has hurt me, I do know that it's all internal and that I can actually deal with it. I don't need that person to change in any way whatsoever, that I can look at what's going on internally and give myself freedom or peace.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's a super profound statement that you don't need them to change or be any kind of different and the suffering that you are feeling or perceiving before you do the work changes because, as you're saying, you have agency to actually take care of yourself, to show up for yourself, to work with whatever those limiting beliefs are and as you're working through them, like you come back to some kind of homeostasis that you couldn't necessarily find in a different way at that particular time, correct?

Speaker 1:

Right, it's not like every time. You know, everything's roses. There are times where I'll do the work and I'll go, hmm, and then later things shift. You know, it's how I react when someone cuts me off while I'm driving. Suddenly it's like, oh, I'm not taking the world personally, they're not doing it to me, I am doing it to me, and how my mind is thinking.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's super cool. It's a wonderful tool for the community, and we're going to put all this information and links in the show notes, and we'll see if we can find some videos on YouTube to actually put the links in the show notes as well, so people can actually see the process live in motion, be able to track, and maybe that would be really useful if someone's actually working on a worksheet by themselves. Is that what you'd suggest?

Speaker 1:

Certainly when my son was young I would give him the four questions and ask him to ask me the four questions and you know that's all I needed. Of course there are people who have experience in the work and there are connections you can get through theworkcom and Katie's written books. She's got a wonderful book called Loving what Is, which is a great introduction into the work.

Speaker 2:

I love that. It's as simple as you can ask a friend or a relative or a stranger to read you the questions and you're able to write, work with it. Yeah, I love that. It's an empowerment model and it doesn't necessarily have a fee associated with it, that everyone can work on this for free if they choose. That is super cool. And we are getting to the end of the interview, john. Is there anything else you'd like to say about the work, how it's changed your life, or what you would just like to share, or nugget or two that we haven't touched on so far?

Speaker 1:

I've literally seen people's lives radically alter in doing the work. You know there's a friend of mine. She was estranged from her brother for many years, brother for many years, and in doing the work I watched her internal change and eventually there was reconciliation, but primarily it was a reconciliation inside herself and it happened to manifest outwardly eventually as well, but it was the internal manifestation that was radical, and I've seen people do that with their body.

Speaker 1:

I've seen people do it with relationships, with people dying. It's, you know, and I would say it's not for everyone. I don't think it's the be all and end all. There are many different modalities in this universe, in this world, and for me it just allowed me to continually, every day, go oh, aren't working. I have a place where I can go and sometimes I ignore that.

Speaker 2:

you know, I still have that denial self where I push it down and I ignore it and then finally it's like okay, it's time to take a look that's beautiful and I think that's a wonderful place to wrap up the interview and just with you reflecting back on, you know your friend with going through the estrangement and actually the agency was within her, was never somewhere outside of her, and once she reconciled that it created space for her to have a relationship with her brother. And I love talking about death, talking about our relationships to our body or any other emotional thing, that all these things can get transformed and this is an accessible and affordable access point. So that's a beautiful place to wrap up and, john, thanks for taking a couple minutes and coming out to say hi and sharing some of your experience and wisdom with the community and thank you you're very welcome.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for having me super cool.

Speaker 2:

yeah, I love some of the stuff that john got into. I love the idea, like right at the end, john brings up the idea that, hey, my daughter's never going to talk to me again, and then she asks another question or says something else. And it's just so interesting how I had these ideas that are finite, that this is how it's going to be and this is how it's going to end, instead of this infinite idea that there's an expansiveness and there's other opportunities that I'm going to have.

Speaker 2:

And I say this for parents, grandparents, children that are struggling that they're never going to talk to their parents or grandparents or parents ever again that this is limiting and it does change and it does take a lot of work, and the work by Byron Katie is another access point. So I hope this was useful. I'd love to hear if it was or wasn't useful, because I want to bring more modalities on here to share with folks so you have more resources. And thanks for coming out to play today. A bunch of great stuff in the show notes. Just reminding you, everything that john spoke about will be in the show notes today and we have other great resources in there. We're also a 501c3 non-profit. Would love to have your support in continuing to bring all this programming to you for free.

Speaker 2:

And thanks for coming out out to play today. And, in case no one's told you yet, today I love you. I love you and yeah, I'm super curious if the show translates and with that, I will see you around the neighborhood. Peace. Thanks for taking the time to join me on this episode of Family Disappeared Podcast. Do you know someone who can benefit from what we're discussing on today's episode? If so, please share this podcast with them and anyone else in your community that might be interested in changing their lives. Together we'll continue the exploring, growing and healing journey. I will see you on our next episode. Until then, happy days to all.