Family Disappeared

Somatic Healing for Parental Alienation: Rewiring Stress Response with Vivian Meraki Part 2 - Episode 116

• Lawrence Joss

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In this conversation, the speakers delve into the importance of emotional differentiation and somatic therapy in parenting, particularly in the context of co-parenting and parental alienation. They discuss how understanding one's emotions and boundaries can lead to healthier relationships with children and ex-partners. The conversation emphasizes the significance of self-trust, agency, and the need for repair in relationships, both with oneself and with others. The speakers also highlight practical resources and strategies for parents to navigate these challenges effectively.

Key Takeaways

  • Emotional differentiation helps in recognizing what emotions belong to us.
  • Somatic therapy reconnects individuals with their bodies for healing.
  • Creating safety in parent-child relationships is crucial for emotional health.
  • Boundaries teach others how we want to be treated.
  • Repairing relationships starts with self-awareness and self-trust.
  • Self-sacrifice in parenting should be intentional, not a default.
  • Children absorb the emotional dynamics of their parents' relationships.
  • Communication and consent are key in navigating co-parenting challenges.
  • Repair can happen within ourselves, not just through verbal communication.
  • Resources like workshops and books can support parents in their journey.


Chapters

00:00 - Understanding Emotional Differentiation
02:46 - The Importance of Somatic Therapy
05:47 - Navigating Parent-Child Relationships
08:58 - The Role of Boundaries in Co-Parenting
11:58 - Repairing Relationships: Self and Others
15:05 - The Power of Self-Trust and Agency
17:49 - Creating Safety in Parenting
21:04 - The Journey of Somatic Healing
23:52 - Resources for Parents
26:53 - Final Thoughts and Reflections

If you wish to connect with Lawrence Joss or any of the PA-A community members who have appeared as guests on the podcast:

Email - familydisappeared@gmail.com
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/lawrencejoss
(All links mentioned in the podcast are available in Linktree)

Vivian Meraki's Website: https://www.vivianmeraki.com/⁩

Please donate to support PAA programs:
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This podcast is made possible by the Family Disappeared Team:
Anna Johnson- Editor/Contributor/Activist/Co-host
Glaze Gonzales- Podcast Manager

Connect with Lawrence Joss:
Website: https://parentalalienationanonymous.com/
Email- familydisappeared@gmail.com

SPEAKER_00:

We're feeling stress. We're feeling maybe a bit less than. Maybe we feel blamed, like whatever that might be. Those are those moments where emotional differentiation in that moment means, okay, I'm gonna own my part, which is that my stress went up after that interaction with that person. But the part where they started to push their emotionality onto me, their stress, their insecurity, their anger, all that that is now in my body, I can actually differentiate and notice that's not mine.

SPEAKER_01:

There was a time in my life when I was overwhelmed and underwater. Those days are the inspiration for this podcast. This is by far the ultimate healing journey for all of us. Healing ourselves emotionally, spiritually, and physically is paramount to this journey. From this place of grounding, we can all go out into the world and change all our interactions and relationships. We can engage people from an integrated and resourced place. This is a journey of coming home to ourselves. In today's episode, we'll start to explore some of these issues. Let's begin the healing journey today. Welcome to the Family Disappeared Podcast. Hi, my name is Lawrence Joss and welcome to the Family Disappeared podcast. Today we have part two of the interview with Vivian Marocki. And if you haven't listened to part one, please, well, this is a suggestion. Do what you get to do what you want because that's what the show is about. But it would be really useful to go back and listen to the first part. We're talking about somatic therapy, somatic coaching, how to find the way back to our bodies, because so much of what we do is generally in the head. So we don't necessarily feel our bodies, which is 80 to 90 percent of what we're experiencing. And this kind of work will bring us back into our bodies and also help us show our kids, our parents, our other loved ones, ways that they can find ways back to their core, back to their body. And from that place, there's an opportunity for creativity. You know, if we're just stuck in our head and just stuck in our words and just trying to control our environment, the opportunity for creativity is really reduced, at least in my experience. And if you're new to the community, welcome. Again, we have a bunch of podcasts already taped. If you're looking for specific subjects, check them out. Each interview is a little bit different. This one we're talking about somatics, which is just finding your own body. And it's a place for healing, a place for repair, a place for supporting our other loved ones in some really, really profound ways. All Vivian's information will be in the show notes. We also have a free 12-step program, Parental Alienation Anonymous. It's a wonderful, loving community, and it's about doing interpersonal work, it's about finding our way back to ourselves. It super aligns with what we're talking with today because as we find ourselves, we're able to have relationships in a different way. So thanks for coming out for the second part of the episode. We are a 501c3 nonprofit. Any donations that you give are going to help the next person. A lot of times it's like I don't have anything to give, I don't know why to give. This is available to me. And it's about us offering more resources for more people. So if you have the ability, please do. If you don't, and you want to volunteer or do something like that instead, you can always email us at family disappeared at gmail.com and also questions, thoughts, maybe some stuff we covered on the show you'd like to hear more about. We'd love to hear from you. Please like, share, let folks know that this resource is out there for them. And yeah, let's jump into the second part of the show. I love this one thing that we touched briefly in the show. It's around people pleasing, it's around doing the right thing. It's this idea of like, we need to do this and we need to do that, and then everything will be okay, and people will like us and we'll make everything okay. We really touch on this just very briefly, and it's about everything that we're talking about in the show. And I know for me, like I used to do that all the time. And in doing that stuff, I gave away my power. I didn't really feel in my body. I was just moving through life, and I was actually creating some harm in my own inner personal ecosystem, but also in my children's life and in my parents' life, but not really knowing where my body was, what I was really feeling in my body. And was I doing something trying to get someone to do something else? Or was I coming from a place of, oh wow, I'm loving myself, I'm taking care of myself, I feel really grounded, and that's why I'm offering to do this, or this is why I'm saying no, I'm not gonna do that. Or my favorite part of the interview is the stinky sock analogy. Like, am I going to keep this that is not something I necessarily want? And everything inside of me is saying, Yeah, you're supposed to take this, you're supposed to act this way, you're supposed to be grateful for getting this stinky sock. But yeah, no, that's not mine. You can have your stinky sock back, and by far love that analogy and so incredibly useful. And with that, we are going to see what happens on the second part of the show. When you're talking about the children and talking to them and the sadness wheel and breaking that down. Like what I'm also hearing is at the same time, people are learning these skills to talk with their kids, they're actually repairing their own inner child because they're giving themselves these messages at the same time, they're talking to their children, and then they're starting to embody it. Co-regulation comes on board, and the kids start to see that oh wow, everyone's actually healing. Am I hearing that correctly? That as the parents healing with the child, the child's healing with the parent because it's symbiotic.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think that's the power of this, is something that I often will say is you can support your child without losing yourself. And this process helps to support you and the children. And that's exactly why. Like I think you articulated it so perfectly is you are healing yourself while you're helping to heal your child.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's super beautiful. And you're using the example of like a younger child. If you're working with someone that's going through a divorce and it's acrimonious and their kids are more like teenagers, 15, 14, 16, how do you help the parent as they're finding themselves work with their child more in that kind of age range? Or do you have to work directly with that child? Is that the only pathway?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think that situation is a little bit harder because we've got a lot more going on. They're older. There may be more patterns entrenched in that context. But I also say like it's never too late to create safety for your child. It's never too late to repair and to start rebuilding. And I kind of start from a place of trying to understand what the context might be, what's going on in the family, what the dynamics are in terms of the relationships. And the most important thing is that when you've got contact with your child in those moments, create the safety and bridging to create connection. Connection is something that we can't really force, but it is something that is built when the safety is there. And safety is that sensation that I'm not going to judge you. You can tell me anything. I'm here. Because sometimes children also try to protect their parents, especially in dynamics which are complex, like a parental alienation situation, where if they pick up on one parent not being okay with the other parent mentioned, for example, then they'll actually notice that and then say less as an example. And it goes both ways. Just being really aware of where we're at. And this is why like the self-awareness is so important. And it's okay to have the feelings that you have about your co-parent, but just recognizing that your child doesn't share those feelings. Your child loves them unconditionally and they're wired to, and it's part of their own safety that they need to preserve in order to survive, even as they, you know, enter the teenage years. And then, of course, we've got the developmental stage that they're in where they're looking to start building autonomy and their own self-identity and kind of pushing out. So that's something that's difficult to navigate. I do think that at that age, it's really helpful to have them in child therapy and have them have an outlet to talk to someone else who's trained, especially someone with more expertise in the context of trauma, you know, divorce, separations, things like that. Make sure that the therapist that you're working with is someone that you feel is a really good fit. You know, like ask them about their modalities, ask them about their approach on different things. It's okay to like a lot of parents will think, like, oh, I found this therapist and then I'm stuck with them, you know, or I have to because they look really good on paper. But have those conversations with them and really vet them and make sure that you feel really good and safe because this is someone that needs to create that safety for your child, for them to open up and talk to them in a way that is objective. We're human, there's going to be projection, but people in the healing space need to be so self-conscious so as to be careful not to project. So you want to be working with someone like that to support, you know, your child through what they're going through. So I think that with that age group, it's equipping them with more support and then you yourself being really aware of what you may or may not be projecting and make sure that you're creating safety for your child. And safety is not just, oh, my house is safe, but like what's that emotional psychological safety? And every interaction is an opportunity for that deepened connection. So if you notice things that are coming up for them, it's okay to say, you know, like, oh, I'm noticing that you're feeling like, you know, you can describe like what's that body language saying? What's the tone of voice? Like those things. And doing it in a way that's not judgmental, doing it in a way, and actually, even before I say that, is to ask first, right? So the consent piece is really important. It's like, oh, do you mind if I give you an observation? Like, do you mind if I share something that I noticed and then say it? And if they don't want it, then you have to respect that and it's part of the safety. But it can feel painful because it takes time because we just want to get in there. We just really want to build that connection. But it's actually only by step by step creating that safety and building in the consent and following things at their pace, even when it feels slow, that we allow the space for them to come closer again. And repair is really important in all of that too.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for that. And for anyone out there that's listening, like some of the ideas are a little bit sophisticated that we're talking about, and they take time to build up these languages around consent and checking in and reflection. And the somatic part's so important because we come in home to ourselves to do this to ourselves first, and then we go and practice it with the kids, in my experience. And you had a really poignant story with your son at 10 years old, goes out into the world, comes home, and says, Hey, mom, I had this interaction with an adult, and we tie that back into like this whole gaslighting thing. And it sounds like your son went out, had an experience, but still had a sense of himself that he could come back to himself and didn't take on this outside air pressure. And I bring that up because in parental alienation or estrangement, whatever anyone wants to call it, we're interacting with all these different stakeholders, and we continuously want to pick up what they're saying as real. And what I'm hearing you saying, the pathway to yourself, kind of helps a lot of that dissipate. I would presume that's a really big milestone or something that your clients can really track when they're working with you through the somatic lens, like, oh yeah, I didn't have to pick this up. I found the path back to myself that I'm creating with you.

SPEAKER_00:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I talk about these concepts, these are deeper concepts of emotional differentiation and then emotional purging. So emotional differentiation is this idea that what's mine is mine, what's yours is yours. So the emotion that I feel, I can own that. But I also recognize what emotion maybe I'm picking up and those threads, as you say, that are not mine. It's hard. Like it's really hard to differentiate. And I think a good example is like we've all had those situations where we have an interaction with someone, maybe it got a bit heated, maybe they're taking out some of their frustration or stress on us. And then we walk away feeling awful. We're feeling stress, we're feeling maybe a bit less than, maybe we feel blamed, like whatever that might be. And those are those moments where emotional differentiation in that moment means, okay, like I'm gonna own my part, which is that my stress went up after that interaction with that person. Maybe there's a part of me that feels insecure, maybe I feel rejected, maybe I feel worried about being judged. Like I can own all those pieces. But the part where they started to push their emotionality onto me, their stress, their insecurity, their anger, all that that is now in my body, I can actually differentiate and notice that's not mine. I don't need to be stressed about the stuff they're stressed about. It's not mine. So, like I have practices that help people kind of like, you know, recognize that, but then purge. So the purge part is also the other, which is like, how do we like get rid of that? How do we like kind of basically just give it back to them? And you know, in a simple way that I used to explain to my son, he's an empath, and so he's emotionally just very advanced for his age. So he was only six, but he can now do it, he can do this no problem now. It's taken years. I said, like, so if someone gives you as a present, they're like, Oh, you know, here's a stinky sock for your present, right? Like, what do you think? Do you want that stinky sock? And he's like, I don't want a sneaky sock as a present. Like, yeah, me too. Right? So, what do you do with that? Do you take it? Do you just take it home? Like, what do you do with that stinky sock? And he's like, I don't want it. Yeah, so you know what you can do, you can give it back to the person and be like, Oh no, thank you. We go, no, thank you. We can say no, thank you. It's like that with feelings too. We go, no, thank you. Not my feeling. You know, I know I'm over I'm really simplifying this, but that's the basis of it, and then doing this with our children. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't think you're uh you're simplifying anything. I think the idea of a stinky sock as a metaphor is just is so tangible and real, and anyone can relate to that, even as an adult. I think it's a wonderful analogy. If we can all just remember the stinky sock analogy, I think we might be 80% better in the world. So we're talking about this whole idea we got the stinky sock, what's mine and not mine. And I want to go just kind of like jump to like boundaries. We're trying to set a boundary with someone. We don't know where we begin, where they end, what a boundary is, what a wall is. Like, can you just talk from your perspective a little bit around boundaries? Because this intersects every single conversation we have through divorce, through alienation, through estrangement, anything. And I think so many people are so confused about what that even means to them.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's a big one, especially because when we were married, the boundaries are really different, and you're willing to do a lot more for the other person. And then in divorce, it can be really hard to start to separate that out. So the way that I think about boundaries is that it's our way of teaching the other person how we want to be interacted with and treated. So I actually don't think of boundaries like a wall or a fence or something to guard ourselves, but rather it's almost like a permeable membrane. And we allow what we want through, and the stuff that we don't want through, we don't want through. But it also has so much to do with what we want and asking for what we want. So it's not so much about, oh, I want you to do this, but it's more like this is what's gonna happen and this is what I need to do as a result of this. And then they make their choices. And sometimes we can ask them too, like, you know, are you able to adjust this? But at the end of the day, it's a choice. And so taking from parental alienation and estrangement, one of the most common ones is probably how to interact with the children and those points of interaction, like drop-offs, pickups. Like that's a really common one as an example. So I hear a lot, you know, my co-parent is always late and they don't seem to respect my time and this and this and this, or like they're supposed to drop the kids off, or I'm supposed to be there to pick up the children, but then they're not ready. Like those are really common things. So I'll use that as the foundation of boundary. So boundary might be, you know, coming in and saying, and I think the way you say it too is like, it matters a lot to me. My time matters a lot to me. And so, like, we committed to this time, and can they be ready on time next time? Now, there are circumstances, like I said, we can't force them, like the other parent, we can't force them. Sometimes there's almost an inclination, like, we're gonna start getting in there, we're gonna try to manage the situation and try to move it along towards where we need it to be. So maybe we're texting in advance, maybe we're confirming more, maybe we're getting in there. From my perspective, I actually think like that person shows themselves and they make the decisions accordingly. Your children are always watching, like your children are always absorbing what's going on around them. They notice the stress that happens in one house before a transition happens, and vice versa, right? And so it's a situation where it's almost like, and I also talk a little bit about radical acceptance, and that's kind of a bit of a balance between the two, which is fortunate or unfortunate, which is, you know, you can set the boundary and say, I really need you to be on time for these reasons, and this is what's going on, right? Like what's going to happen for me. And hopefully that's enough to kind of reset or to prompt them or or whatnot. Sometimes it isn't. And in those cases, it's kind of part and parcel of the situation and how the other person is. Then the most important thing there is for yourself. Like, what are you going to do as a result of that? And what happens with the children as a result of that? Is it that it needs, I mean, in some cases, people actually need to go back and revisit their separation agreements. They need to bring the legal back in. They actually need to go back to court. Like, there's actually things that happen because there's such consistency in terms of the erosion of the agreement. And in other cases, it's an adjustment on the day. It's like, well, this is clearly not working at this time. So we're adjusting, you know, in terms of the agreement on when these drop-offs and things are happening on a consistent basis.

SPEAKER_01:

And then, like, I'm trying to set a boundary with my ex-partner and I'm saying, hey, you know, I'd really appreciate you being on time. I have to get back to work. It's super important. They don't respond like, how am I finding my way back to myself instead of getting stuck in their story or their projection or where they are from the somatic perspective and taking care of myself? And also, like you're saying, role modeling to the kids that are actually watching. How do I not get lost in this whole boundary escapade? And how do I just give the stinky sock back within the boundary? Like, what would that look like?

SPEAKER_00:

So I think in that situation, understanding what's coming up for you, how are you feeling about it? Doing that work and recognizing is like and validating like I'm feeling stressed about this and for good reason. This is so frustrating. And it is, you know. And then just letting that feeling be there within you. Because a lot of times we'll try to push it away or with like, oh, I'm not trying to be petty. I don't want to do this and that. Like, actually, just let's just sit in it for a little bit. And it's okay. It's okay to be upset, it's okay to be frustrated and just let it be there. And then at a certain point, it's like, okay, what are we gonna do about it? What does honoring ourselves look like? Because that is clearly not working. So it might be, okay, well, I need more of a buffer then. The evidence is that you've demonstrated that you are not able to meet that time. Well, then I guess it's gonna be earlier. So I guess the drop-off is gonna have to be an hour early, whatever that is, right? Like it might be different things for different people, might be a different day. This is complicated because it does start getting into agreements, things like what's been agreed upon in the separation agreement, court, sometimes it's even litigation. Like it's complicated. But at the end of the day, it's what feels right for you and what is going to feel honoring to yourself. Sometimes for some people, okay, this one I'm gonna let go of because it feels like a one-off. But then what happens if it's not a one-off and it's consistent? What does that look like and what feels right for me?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and just to kind of like bring it down back to something really basic that you said before is when you were talking about your daughter and the sadness wheel on something, and just really reflecting, oh, you're feeling sad, you're feeling frustrated. And this practice is for us as an apparent, as an adult, but it's super basic, like coming back to those feelings, getting back into our body, and then from that resource place, I'm hearing, then deciding if it's more complex or what needs to happen from that place, exactly. Right. As you're also talking about this conversation and setting a boundary, the other piece that goes along with the boundaries, like, is there any kind of repair that needs to get made? Is there anything that needs to get said? And is this repair for me? Is this repair in a different direction? I know it's a big question, but in relating to boundaries, because so many of us are having these issues, how do we make a personal repair for ourselves and potentially an outward repair? What would that look like for you from a somatic perspective?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, repair is such a critical aspect. Some dynamics in relationships are very difficult to repair and may not even be possible. So I actually look at repair first as ours. So we're doing it for us. To me, there's actually probably three types of repair in these dynamics. One is the one with ourselves, where we start to trust ourselves again, where we start to embody more of our decisions, where we feel aligned with ourselves and what's coming up in our body and honoring, where we're not self-sacrificing all the time. There's nothing wrong with self-sacrifice when it's intentional and a choice and it feels good. It's self-abandonment when it doesn't feel good. And when we do that regularly, then that becomes almost an expectation. And we're actually eroding the trust within ourselves. And that's where it starts to get into situations where we feel more and more disempowered. We feel like we're losing ourselves more, maybe we're disappearing, and we're only just the person that the narrative where I'm just a mom, I'm just a dad, right? Like some of that. And this idea that for me to show love, I have to self-abandon or I have to sacrifice. Love means sacrifice. Like that one is so common. And I'm here to say, no, it's not. Love starts with you. So start to do the repair with yourself. And the repair looks like actually, probably something similar to what I was sharing earlier, which is it's like, I'm gonna do better. Like saying to myself, I'm sorry that I made that choice and I abandoned our more basic needs, and I'm gonna do better. I'm gonna get more rest and then I'm gonna do it. So making those commitments with ourselves and doing it in a way that is honoring to what we need. So that's kind of the first case. Second one is with our children. So many parents they want the best for the children, but they don't realize how ruptures happen. Rupture is something that breaks trust in a relationship. So it might be that moment where, you know, you're rushing home and your child's wanting to tell you something and you're like, I don't have time right now, or like you kind of brush them off without meaning to. That can be a rupture. Like that for your child, from their perspective, is like, oh, that kind of hurt a little bit, right? Like I'm using a really benign situation that happens a lot. Let's say that happens all the time. And let's say that never gets addressed, and let's say that that's the norm. And then what happens to your child is that they probably start to come to you with stuff less and less and less because you're so busy, they don't want to interrupt, or they feel shut down often, or that you're just not gonna have time to listen to the wide try anymore. That is something that the repair looks like going back and addressing it with them. So in the moment, it can be I was really busy earlier. You wanted to tell me something. I'm sorry that I wasn't able to listen, but I wanna make time to listen now. Can you tell me what you're gonna tell me? Right. And then listening and really carving out the time. And I don't mean like 30 seconds, a few minutes, like you know, in between putting the dishes in the dishwasher and finishing dinner kind of thing. It's like, no, like just carve out that time and really pay attention and give them the time and the attention, like it matters to you. Your objective is to understand them more, get to know them because that's why they're telling you. They want you to know because it matters to them. That's one repair, like it might be in the moment, or the repair that if when it's been over a long time, it's the same thing, but it's on a much bigger scale. It's like so growing up, I was in such a hurry all the time. I didn't take the time to really listen to you. And I look back and I feel really bad about that, and I'm sorry. But I want to change the dynamic going forward and I want to make time for you now. So, what do you think you need from me to repair this? What do you need from me to support you now? What can I do to support you now? And it takes time, and that's the conversation, but it starts from there. And then the last one, as difficult as it is, is actually the repair with your co-parent. If it's possible, it's not always possible, but in many of these situations, and I know this is tricky because within the context of parental alienation, sometimes we're dealing with very complex and extreme cases where there may be abuse. And I'm not talking about those. I'm not talking about situations of abuse, I'm not talking about, you know, where there's been extreme toxicity, one-sided toxicity in a relationship. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about in the context where, aside from those, because trying to do repair in those contexts can actually do a lot more harm to yourself. So that's not really something I recommend. But in the context of the ones where a repair is possible, it may be in the moment, but it's similar to what I talked about with the children around, you know, like when I did this thing and I got the impression that maybe it caused a disruption for you or that you were activated, or actually activate is probably not a good word to use. It depends on your audience. The other person probably would feel even worse about it. It's like, but like I upset you. I got the sense that maybe I upset you and open the floor. It's like, I want to talk to you about that. Are you open to talking about this? And hopefully it creates a space for a vice versa. And what this is not, is it is not becoming a doormat yourself. It is not you saying, like, I'm sorry for everything and therefore, but it's more about catching these things in the moment. I'm also not talking about necessarily like we're not excavating your whole past marriage and why it didn't work and all the things. We're actually talking about in those moments when there's been rupture and things that you feel have really caused harm and that disconnect to try to create enough bridging. And this is again, like it's it's not like you're like you're getting divorced and separating, but you do have to co-parent with this person probably for the rest of your life. Because even before, you know, like when your kids grow up, just because they turn 18, that's not necessarily mean you stop co-parenting. It means the hardest part is probably over. But there's going to be babies, there's going to be weddings, there's going to be big events and graduations and milestones, right? So you do kind of almost have to be in each other's circle for a while. So how are we addressing those moments so that you can be as civilized or civil to each other as possible? And that's as peaceful as possible. And again, it's situations where it's possible, and not every situation is possible, but having those conversations.

SPEAKER_01:

That's some super great information. And the idea of the repair like that you were talking about with the child is the identical repair that we're making with ourselves. Like each time that something comes up, and you'd mentioned around like people pleasing and always wanting to take care of other people and how that actually erodes our own agency and self-confidence. And now we don't have anything left except I identify as this. And making that repair with ourselves over and over again is the exact same repair and same muscle that we do with our child and potentially with an ex-partner, you know, and it's super, super important. And in the context of parental alienation and strangers and doing this repair and having these boundaries, how do people weave in and out and know when it's okay to have contact or when it's okay maybe sometimes to not have contact within the same context of some of these relationships and trying to titrate between taking care of ourselves and finding our home and also living in the world?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a really tough one and common. And I would say it goes actually back to the work, which is when you start to practice being more and more in tune with yourself and what you need, because the other aspect of it in therapy, we talk about the window of tolerance. So the window of tolerance is, and just kind of mentioned, like I'm not a therapist, but this is something we talk about in a therapeutic lens, is that the window of tolerance is how much are you able to tolerate? How much is your nervous system able to tolerate based on what's going on, just very simply. And that window might stretch open wider and sometimes it's smaller, depending on what's going on, stressors, how you're feeling, you know, body stress, et cetera. So your capacity for what you're dealing with on any given day is going to be different day to day. Just because you had high capacity one day does not mean that the next week is going to be the same. And I think just recognizing that and giving yourself grace in knowing that that's the case is paramount. And then in the context of that, it's understanding what do I need today? Where am I at? And maybe if I'm a little bit lower threshold, then I can honor that. And it's okay too. And so the work is actually being so aware of yourself that you notice, oh, you know, like maybe after a certain interaction, maybe I felt more tired, maybe I felt kind of weakened or I felt smaller or less good about myself. Well, that's a clue for future interactions, is maybe then I reduce them because maybe then I don't need as many of those. And how essential is it? What can be very helpful for a lot of people who are co-parenting is to use apps where, you know, they keep the communication in the app and then it's a lot simpler, and then it's through the text, you know, with others, they like the fluidity and a little bit more of the flexibility of text and things like that. That's fine. Your situation is going to be dependent on you, and you make the choices that are best for you and your family and what's working. But if you feel like it's not working because it's too much, then there's ways to reduce that communication down. And I think that's the part is it feels like a constant titration. You know, sometimes you titrate up and then oh, okay, that was a little too much. All right, okay, pair it back a little bit. It's almost like a constant experimentation, depending on where you're at. And that's absolutely normal and it's absolutely okay. But I think the key thing is respecting yourself and saying it's okay if I want less.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And as you've been saying the whole time, is coming back to your body, checking in with your body. Am I tight? Are my shoulders tight? Am I getting laryngitis? Am I lying down? And then actually from that place, you can come to like some kind of cognitive conclusion. And also talking about repair and talking about the body and titrating and stuff like that. Like all repairs, when I first started going through the process, felt like they had to be verbal. Like, if I don't work this out, if I don't say this, if they don't say that, if this that doesn't happen, then nothing's going to ever happen. But the repair is not necessarily verbal. The repair can happen in the body as well, correct?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's the whole point. That's the whole point of switching to the somatic framework is oh, this repair is within me. I have volition, I have agency, I can take care of myself. And from that place, I can have a more supportive relationship with my children, with the ex-partner, with any of these other stakeholders that we might bump into.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, it starts with us. Yeah, and that's I think one last thing that I'll mention, even though I did talk about repair if it's possible with the other co parent, there's situations where it's not, but that doesn't mean repair can't happen because the repair then happens with ourselves and it happens within ourselves and our nervous system and our relationship with that dynamic of what we're doing. Going on. And they don't need to be participants in that, that we can claim that back for ourselves as well.

SPEAKER_01:

That's very beautiful. And as we're starting to wind down over here, I know that you mentioned your book a little bit. Could you talk a little bit more about that and anything else you might have that would be useful for folks out there? And we're going to have all your information in the show notes and links and everything like that. But just give us a little bit more yumminess that you'd like to share with the community and what you might be offering.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So the book that I have out is called Parenting Through Divorce: The Three Keys to Building Unshakable Bonds with Your Children. And it's my approach from a somatic perspective, but also a coaching perspective, on how to build those bonds with your children. The stance that I take is that, you know, a lot of these things is body first. So I talk about how you build self-trust with your children. How do you help support them through difficult decisions, you know, from the body? How do you help support them through difficult interactions with toxic or very difficult adults and people? But all from this foundation that I was talking about. One is everything I talked about here, which is about creating safety. How do you create safety? So I talked about the principles of how to create safety in a very practical way. How do you help to normalize center, you know, what we talked about, and how what are some practices and how to help support your kids in conversations in doing that? How to redefine resilience. And then a lot of the frameworks and conversations and exercises and practices that you can do with your children, like some of the ones I mentioned before and other ones as well. So that book is really meant to be a supportive guide for parents. That was the lifeline I didn't have, but that I created for myself. And one that a lot of people, upon reading it, have said it's been a lifeline or like a hug for them to help them through their divorces. And I think the beautiful thing about it is it's not really written from the perspective that you have to be a certain kind of parent or collaborative or working together with your other co-parent, but rather it's actually designed in a way to support you wherever you're at, take whichever principles you want to, and you can, you know, apply the ones that feel like they fit and leave the ones that don't. But it's really tailored around as a solo parent, how do you parent your children in your house in a way that solidifies them, that they can go outside into the world regardless of what the other household is doing in a way that anchors them back to them, their body, their nervous systems, and what's true for them. So that's the book. The funny thing is actually, I'm just I'm re-releasing the book because I actually added a self-assessment in there. It's only like it's gonna have a new cover on it. So that's coming out very, very soon, like in the next few days. I think the original book is out there. So Amazon, Barnes and Noble, but in the next few days to a week, I think it takes some time for the distributors to update. But that one with a self-assessment around what is your survival mode with a little bit of guidance around here's the chapters to focus on, if this is more of your survival mode, to help people tune in, knowing that parents are really busy and they don't have time to read a whole book cover to cover sometimes. So, you know, which chapters are the highlights for you? I also am designing workshops and I'm working with child therapy clinics in Toronto. So in person, it'll be in Toronto. There'll likely be other workshops that I'll be bringing in other places, but I'm also designing a virtual workshop for parents based on some of these topics that I talk about, and also an online course and how to reset your nervous system that will also be available later this fall. But I also have an email program, which is a five-day mini email course, which is what I call the divorce reset, also to help support parents with a lot of these principles that I talk about, at least in getting started. So, how to get, you know, more in tune with your body and awareness and some practices and interactions with your children. So there's a lot of different resources out there for sure. And of course, I work with clients one-on-one if that's the level of support that they need. I'm everywhere, so also on a lot of social media and creating content and everything all the time. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

That's fantastic, and you seem super excited. I'm super excited for the new book cover and adding the self-assessment. And I love the idea of these chapters or what can get you a little bit of information right now, like actually giving folks the direction and then powering them to have a little bit quicker process or efficient process during the day. That's all super beautiful.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01:

And I just want to finish with this one thing. For me, my somatic training is the single best thing that I've ever done in my entire life. And it started with switching from talk therapy to somatic therapy, and especially with all the complexities of just being a human being. And it sounds like that is the pillar of everything that you're talking about, all started with you finding yourself through your first initial somatic contact.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I would agree with that. It's completely changed my life. I considered myself a really mindful person before, but now I move and I act with so much even more confidence and self-trust than before because I'm just so anchored now in my body. Like I just know what's right and what isn't. Like I've actually not gotten on flights. I know this might sound extreme to some folks, but there's been planes that I had such a horrible, rotten feeling about. And I just said, I'm just not getting on. And then it turned out there's a really bad storm on the other side. So, you know, like it's pretty incredible how this stuff works sometimes.

SPEAKER_01:

I couldn't agree with you more. And it's so wonderful to sit having this conversation with you. And you're so in your body, and you keep coming back to your body, and you keep talking about the stuff and role modeling and what it looks like to be super present and advocating and talking about yourself and your feelings. And I think what a wonderful healing service you're providing to so many people and accessible through so many different channels. So I just wanted to acknowledge that and say thank you for that. And thanks for taking the time to come in out to having a little bit of a chat with us.

SPEAKER_00:

It's been my pleasure. Thank you. And the work that you do in supporting parents because I think parental alienation is one of the most difficult. Like divorce is hard, really hard, but parental alienation is just heartbreaking. So the work that you're doing in helping support parents through that is really profound. So thank you as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you. Wow, what a great show. That was super fun. And I like to see someone else, and I'm gonna use the word geeking out, geek out as much on the somatic world as I do, and seems to really incorporate it in their life in such a beautiful way. So, yeah, what a great conversation. And again, all Vivian's information is gonna be in the show notes, and she has some wonderful stuff available. And you know, I I love the idea of the short course, the emailing course, just for people to kind of get like a reset. Like, not enough can be sane for building inner resources and having a real simple reset, like Vivian is offering, sounds wonderful, and her book sounds really cool. And I love an idea of a self-assessment. Like, I need a self-assessment like every day. So I will be checking that out. And thanks for coming out to listen today. We have a bunch of great podcasts coming up that will be touching basis with some really cool, unique people that are doing some wonderful service work out there for our community and other communities. And I hope you have all have a beautiful day. Great stuff in the show notes. Email us at family disappeared at gmail.com. Please like, share, let people know that the resources are out there. And in case anyone hasn't told you yet today, I love you. And you know what I forgot? I forget a couple wows. So wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, what a great show! And gotta get that in there. And with that, I am going to go and have some breakfast, and I hope you have a beautiful day. Thanks for taking the time to join me on this episode of Family Disappeared Podcast. Do you know someone who can benefit from what we're discussing on today's episode? If so, please share this podcast with them and anyone else in your community that might be interested in changing their lives. Together we'll continue the exploring growing and healing journey. I will see you on our next episode. Until then, happy days to all.