What Happens When Grandparents Are Erased? | Parental Alienation

In this heartfelt panel, Lawrence Joss brings together grandparents to explore the emotional realities of maintaining connection in the context of parental alienation. Through lived experience, they reflect on the quiet grief of distance, the moments of unexpected contact, and the deep love that continues even in the absence of regular relationships. This conversation offers a rare window into the grandparent perspective, one often overlooked, yet deeply affected by family separation.

Together, the panel unpacks the complexity of holding both loss and hope at the same time. Themes of patience, resilience, identity, and intergenerational connection emerge, alongside the importance of community and shared understanding. This episode is a reminder that even when access is limited or uncertain, presence, love, and intention continue to matter in ways that may unfold over time.

Key Takeaways

• Differences between being a parent and grandparent in alienation
• Emotional impact of parental alienation on grandparents
• Strategies for maintaining connection with grandchildren
• The role of recovery and self-work in healing family relationships
• Generational trauma and breaking cycles

Chapters

00:00 - Introduction and Overview of Parental Alienation
03:56 - Grandparents' Experiences and Emotional Impact
09:27 - Communication and Connection Challenges
12:53 - Differences in Relationship Dynamics
17:37 - Handling Transitions and Moving Forward
20:15 - Using Technology to Bridge the Gap
23:38 - The Power of Small Changes and Responses
25:56 - Reflections on Connection and Hope
27:52 - Closing Thoughts and Resources

Support & Community:

Parental Alienation Anonymous (PAA): Join our free 12-step support group with 16 online meetings weekly for parents, grandparents, family members, and previously alienated individuals seeking healing and recovery.

PA-A.org: Parental Alienation Advocates is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to fostering education, advocacy, and support for individuals grappling with the distressing impact of parental alienation, estrangement, erasure, and family disconnection.

All our services are free and sustained by grants and community donations. Your support helps us continue offering these vital resources.
Donate here: https://pa-a.mykajabi.com/donations-for-the-12-step-program

Connect with Us:
Email your questions or insights: familydisappeared@gmail.com
Like, share, and comment to help us reach more families in need.

If you wish to connect with Lawrence Joss or any of the PA-A community members who have appeared as guests on the podcast:
 
 Email - familydisappeared@gmail.com
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(All links mentioned in the podcast are available in Linktree)

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This podcast is made possible by the Family Disappeared Team:
Anna Johnson- Editor/Contributor/Activist/Co-host
Glaze Gonzales- Podcast Manager

Connect with Lawrence Joss:
Website: https://parentalalienationanonymous.com/
Email-         familydisappeared@gmail.com

Transcript

The Grandparent Perspective On Loss

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I think all three of us can relate. Like, we have a lot of great ideas and we practice a lot of great ideas when we just look at the intent of the idea. Like, oh yeah, thumbs up. We go to everyone, everyone gives us a thumbs up. But I didn't know to follow the intent to the impact. I've never met my grandkids. Has that ever crossed your mind I'm gonna die before I'm ever gonna meet my grandkids? I don't even know what my grandkids sound like, how they play. Are those things that come up for you? You know, are you a grandparent? Are you a parent? Are you a child of alienation? Are those things you struggle with? You know, as even as a child, like, hey, my kids don't know my grandparents, my kids don't know what they sound like. You know what I mean? This is such a complex issue. And and today on the show, we're gonna talk about the grandparents' perspective. You know, what it's like being a grandparent navigating parental alienation, estranger, erasure with your child that has a child's, you know, what that looks like, what the complexities are, also what we've learned over the years going through this. Combined, we must probably got 50, 60 years of being in the realm of parental alienation, estrangement, whatever you want to call it. And this is a really profound, emotional, powerful conversation. And I think you're gonna get a lot out of this. And if you're new to the show, welcome. My name's Lawrence Joss. This is the Family Disappeared Podcast. We have over 130 episodes. There's a bunch of great stuff out there. If you're looking for stuff with therapists, if you're looking for stuff with attorneys, other panels, there's all kinds of subjects. So find what you like. This is specifically around grandparenting, but it applies to every single aspect of parental alienation, how it affects our lives, our decision-making process, how we take care of ourselves. It covers a plethora of everything. And there's such an intersectionality that I don't know, super powerful show. Love the conversation. It's a panel of folks from Parental Alienation Anonymous, which is a free 12-step program. That's where we all met and we do service work by showing up on panels and talking about the reality of some of our relationships and our reactions and our behaviors and our good behaviors and our not good behaviors. And as we're talking about this, we're trying our best and we're doing this imperfectly. And sometimes we're making good decisions and we're learning along the way. So you might make some decisions that aren't great, and you hear something that, oh wow, that wasn't great. Have grace for yourself. Like this isn't about perfection. This is about showing up for our own lives. This is about being in our own lives and being alive and hopefully having relationships with our kids and grandkids. So other great resources in the show notes. There's a link for our 501c3 nonprofit. Everything that we do is free. The only reason you're watching and have access to this today is because someone else paid for it. You know what I mean? Like they paid ahead of time so the next person coming through the door would have access, and we're asking you the same thing. Please donate so the next person can find these resources, and we can bring you more stuff. There's so much stuff to bring you, but with a lack of resources as a grassroots organization, this is the best that we can do. So like, share, donate, always email me at family disappeared at gmail.com. Let me know different topics. We've got some really great topics coming up that people have reached out and said, hey, no one's talking about this, no one's talking about that. So if there's something we're not talking about or a nuance or something you feel like no one ever talks about, let us know. Certain guests might be really proficient at talking about some of these things. Let us know. You know, without your participation, we do the best we can and bring you what we can. And lots and lots of words out of me, as usual. And with that, let's see what everyone on the panel has to say. Oh my God, I'm so excited to be hanging out with some of my friends from program. And today we're going to be touching on a really tender subject that we don't get to talk about a lot, and it's being grandparents. So I'm going to ask you two to qualify a little bit differently, if you can qualify in the standard way, and then how many grandkids you have and what kind of contact. And it might be I have no contact now, but I had contact at one point, or I still have contact, or whatever it is, just to give a little bit of contextualization, and then we'll get into the arc of what that might look like as a grandparent. So I'm gonna start with you first, Stephen.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Okay, thanks, Lawrence. Glad to be here today with you and Renee. Love being here for these podcasts. So my name is Steven. I am a dad to five children. I have a 28-year-old full contact son who's high-functioning autistic and lives close to me. Then I am alienated from a 26-year-old married daughter and with some increasing contact, and then mildly alienated from a 20-half-year-old son with increasing contact up until about December of this year, and then there was some decrease in that. And then I have two stepdaughters who I have full contact with. So I became a grandparent for the first time at the end of September this year. I had not seen my daughter in person for two years since her wedding in 2023. And since my granddaughter has been born, I have seen my daughter three times in person. The most recent was last weekend at a baptism. And those have been really exciting events to be part of with a whole bunch of mix of emotions and all that kind of stuff. So we'll, I'm sure we'll talk about some of that later on here.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Thank you so much, Stephen. And Renee, if you could introduce yourself and qualify, please.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

I'm Renee. I'm the alienated mom of two adult boys, ages 38, and my oldest will be 40 this week. I have four, really five grandchildren, four blood-related, one by a remarriage. I have met all of my grandchildren at or shortly after their birth. However, very extremely limited contact with both my boys and my grandchildren. And as Stephen said, I'm sure we'll get into the logistics in a little bit.

How Grandchild Alienation Feels Different

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Thank you, Renee. And just for me to qualify, I am Lawrence and I have three daughters. I have a 31-year-old. It's been about eight or nine years of no contact. I have a 28-year-old that I am having some contact with for the last year and a half. And I have a 25-year-old that I have regular contact with, and I have a couple grandkids that I have never met. So I I guess the question that we're gonna start with, which is most probably a relatively provocative question, is how is being alienated from a grandchild different than being alienated from your own child? Like, can you quantify some different feelings or some different things that you might not have experienced with your child that seem a little bit confusing, maybe a little tender, a little vulnerable to share? Like what comes up for you when I ask what the difference is? And Renee, we'll start with you first.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Thanks, Lawrence. I would say for me, I was extremely excited when my grandchildren were born, and I was notified of that occurrence. I was allowed to go to the hospital for the one that was local, and it was an amazing experience. My children's father was there, his new wife was there, we took pictures together, and I really thought everything is going to be different. And that was 12 years ago. I was notified or found out, I guess, on Facebook about my other son's childborn exactly one week later. So I went from zero grandchildren to two within a seven-day span, which was kind of cool. But moving forward, really very little contact. I mean, it's been different with both my kids and my grandchildren. One child, my oldest son, I uh got to babysit my grandson and his newborn sister for a few months, and then we were relocated for my husband's job, and I think that was very painful for my son that he had just moved close to us, and we had started what we thought was going to be this great relationship, and it didn't happen. It's been a lot of off and on over the years, mostly off. And most recently, my oldest son and I and my entire extended family and my grandchildren all met for dinner about eight months ago. Again, I thought, oh, this is gonna change everything. And you know, joking with my 12-year-old grandson, and it was just such a great experience. Yet, one month later, I asked to reach out to my granddaughter on a video call for her birthday, and my son said yes, but then they didn't call, and uh I tried to call and there was no answer. So just a lot of confusing messages, really a lot of false starts, and I have found that in order to deal with that, I stay in the present moment. So when I did not hear from my son and my call wasn't picked up on my granddaughter's birthday, I had to process and move on. Compartmentalization has been extremely important because in the past, when I've hung on to my angry feelings, my disappointment, my hurt feelings, I would usually say something that can't be taken back. And then it was years literally of having any opportunity to reconnect.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Thank you for that, Renan. I just want to ask you a clarifying question. It sounds like the first grandchild that was born, you were told when your son was pregnant, and then you were invited in. And like, what does it look like on the other grandchilds? Have you been told each time someone's pregnant? Have you been told each time when the birth is actually happening? Like, what did that look like with the different grandkids?

SPEAKER_00 9:35

I knew my son was expecting the first time, my oldest son. The second time, I probably read about it on Facebook that they were expecting again. I was not invited to that birth, but I met her shortly after when I started babysitting. With my youngest son, I found out about everything on Facebook: the marriage, the kids, everything.

Pregnancy Contact And The Next Generation

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Thank you, Renee. Okay. Stephen, same question for you. Did you know about the birth? Were you told about the birth? And what's the differences that you're you're able to articulate between uh being a grandparent and uh being a parent in the alienation structure?

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Yeah, so I I was called pretty quickly when my daughter found out she was pregnant. I got a call. We were I was actually on vacation with my wife and got a call. I remember I remember exactly where I was. I was on a treadmill in in Mexico on vacation, and I mean I remember it, you know, I'm I remember exactly what treadmill I was on, where I was it was so exciting. You know, it was kind of somewhat silent again until you know it got closer to uh the due date, and then I got a contact after the baby was born, and it was around the idea of well, it was telling me the baby had been born, but it was also around the idea of when were my parents, so that would be my daughter's grandparents and the great-grandparents of the little baby, when are they next coming down? And it happened that my parents were where I was living at that time. And I said, Well, as a matter of fact, they're here right now, they're not in town, they've gone to another city, but they're coming back here. And my daughter said, Is there any possibility that you know grandma and grandpa would want to get together and see the baby? And I was like, Oh my gosh, of course, you know, we made that plan. And I mean, my parents got to see their first great grandbaby too. And then I've seen the baby a couple of times since then, once around Thanksgiving with my oldest son, who I have full contact with. And then this past weekend at a baptism, and actually, my that was the first event that my current wife was invited to. There were some interesting text comments before that invite actually happened that were definitely could have been big places to step into a not so good thing, but thankfully program saved me there, which is great. So for me, I think that what's been the biggest difference for me is that the contact with my daughter returned related to having a grandchild. Uh, because I hadn't seen her for two years and had had very limited contact since her wedding. And then before that, I, you know, the alienation's been going on for 13 years. So I think for me, the hard thing is to not let my mind go to, I know some of the stat right, like not the statistics, but I I was watching uh something uh like a psychologist was talking about the fact that children that are alienated from their parents often experience alienation from their own children. And so I'm sitting here as now that there's a grandbaby, my thoughts go to why can't we stop this for the next generation? Like, let's not keep doing this, right? But I don't get to control that. But my thinking is like, why are we gonna do another generation of this? Like, we don't need to, and it's gonna be damaging potentially for that grandbaby and for my daughter and her husband, potentially, you know, that's what my mind goes to.

The Ethereal Void And Compartmentalizing

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Thank you, Stephen. And I would say for me, I didn't know that either of my grandchildren were getting born. I didn't know when my daughter got pregnant. I didn't see any pictures, none of that existed. And somehow I found out that she went into labor and it was like a premature labor, so you know, you you get scared and you want some kind of contact or understanding that she was safe. And I think I texted her husband and at some point he responded that she's safe. And I want to articulate these little bit of differences, and then maybe you two will have a couple of other comments on it. Like I have this sense, like I raised my daughter, I saw her every single day. I really got to know her, and my grandkids, because I've never physically seen them in person, I've seen some videos, I've seen some pictures, is it's very ethereal, and it's kind of like buying a picture frame at a market with a placeholder in it, and you could really put in any placeholder in it because I don't really have an emotional and physical connection to these kids. So that that's a huge difference between being a grandparent and being a parent and having no contact. There's like this huge void that you don't know how they walk, how they talk, how they have a tantrum, how they laugh, how they play. For me, and I have like kind of like a cutoff. And like you said, Renee, like compartmentalization is a survival technique. And early on, it was also a way that I shut down my whole body and my whole life. But now with program and with working on myself internally, spiritually and emotionally, I can compartmentalize that and still have a rich and full, meaningful life. And we always talk about that. I think everyone is living a really rich life, and these things are going on. So even compartmentalization with recovery and time, if you're new to this, it shifts. You don't lose your whole life. And there were two interesting things that you both said. So I'm gonna start with URNA, ask you a question, and then if you want to comment on this kind of like ethereal thing, if that's alive for you too, I'd love to hear that. So you mentioned that you were getting close with your older child, and then your husband got a job out of state or out of the area, and then you had to move, which you know, yeah, you had to be with your family and and have an income and live and everything like that, is what I'm presuming were the influences. But as a parent, in that moment looking back, how do you feel like you handled that transition? And would you like to share something about that transition with people out there that might be feeling something similar?

The Ostrich Reflex And Missed Chances

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Thanks, Lawrence. You know, there was so much going on at that time. I really didn't want to leave the state that we lived in. We lived in a beautiful mountain community, and I thought I was devastated about that. But now, in looking back, I think a big part of that grief was devastation that I had just six months earlier kind of gotten a connection with my son and my grandchildren. But I could not even look at it at that point because there were such interesting dynamics. My current husband at the time really had a lot of feelings around how my children had treated me at that time, and I think was very frustrated, and I didn't feel that I could talk with him about that. So I really just kind of shut that part of my brain down. You know, I have to move. There's no choice here. And, you know, a lot of my journey in this fellowship and another fellowship has been that I love to put my head in the sand and I love to just pretend like la la la, that's not happening over there. And that has come back to bite me more times than I can tell you. So, how would I handle it differently today? I would have contacted my son, and while I did tell him that we were moving, I would have really, I think, tried harder to have a conversation about, you know, I will fly out, I would love to spend a weekend with the kids and you guys take off together, but I didn't do any of that. I kind of went back into that head in the sand place that I'd gotten so good at, frankly, over the prior 20 plus years of alienation. And that was the behavior that had protected me, and I was gonna stick with that.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Thank you for that, Renee. And I call it the ostrich type mentality. And for me, I'd something would happen. I pop my head out of the sand, I'd tend to it, and then I pop my head back in the sand, just hoping everything would snap back to the place that it was before, like this make-believe place that I thought the world was, and then I pop my head out. I'm like, oh no. And then there's something else that kind of like I cut off and I miss something, and then this other thing happens because I wasn't able to be present in my own life. It sounds like a similar experience that you're talking to. Thank you for sharing that. That's super vulnerable. That's a big thing. I feel that in my body. And then, like the ethereal part about connection with your grandkids, do you feel super connected to them? Do you feel like maybe they're make-believe? Like, how does that feel in your body and your thought process?

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Kind of the same thing, you know. When I had tried repeatedly and my children just weren't able to respond, I did the ostrich my head in the sand again, you know. And so I don't feel particularly connected to them. The most connected I felt was at that family dinner last year, and it was amazing. And to be able to joke with my grandson about some things, and I texted him a picture to share with him, and I felt the most connected I've ever felt, but honestly, anytime that we get together, it feels like I'm meeting someone that I barely know, you know, distant cousin or distant relative that I've only seen once or twice in my life, because that's really been my experience. So as you I thought you put it very well, Lawrence, when you said, you know, I was present with my children that for as long as they were with me, I did everything with them. I had fun with them, I stayed home with them part of the time, but I don't have that experience with my grandchildren. One thing I will say at this point, I just don't want to forget to share it, that because of my recovery work, my son, I'm gonna say about two years ago, started with his family, his new wife and my grandchildren and his new wife's son making videos for me. So I get videos on my birthday, on Christmas, of them just saying, hi, you know, we just wanted to say hello, and we miss you, and we, you know, even though we don't really have a relationship, there are attempts. And I can tell you by them making those videos, I have started to feel more connected because I get to see them in action, I get to hear their voices, and that has been an absolute blessing for me.

Breaking Cycles Through Better Texting

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Thank you for sharing that, Renee. And I and I love the way that we have this idea of how we're gonna reconnect, what it's gonna look like. And then our children have different technologies, sharing a video, taking a safety test, sticking a toe in the water, starting with something like that, and I'm thinking for a different generation and then different trauma than we have. This is massive, massive putting themselves in that position to share something like that where we're like, hey, no video, come hug me. You know, it's the same thing, the same behavior I'd have with my children. So I appreciate you sharing that. And I'm gonna ask you the ethereal question, Stephen, but I want to ask you one question about your share before. You said something to the degree of uh this generational trauma, and why don't we stop this generational trauma instead of going on down to the next row? And I'm curious from your perspective and your healing journey, isn't that exactly what you're doing by doing the recovery work? And then everyone else's work is really none of your business as long as you're showing up from this new integrated spot.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yeah, absolutely, Lauren. So I am changing that generationally for me and the people who in my family who witnessed those changes through recovery work and coming into the PA community and being a part of these rooms for four years now. So, yes, I was more kind of in a bigger sense, like just to the universe, like everybody. We don't have to do this another generation, you know, just kind of putting it out there, not necessarily with the idea of there's any way that I can change my two alienated children's reality or where they are or what they choose to do, what my daughter chooses to do with my granddaughter as it relates to the relationship with me. Yeah, absolutely. That's out of my control for sure.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

And I also just want to reflect back when you're sharing your story about going to the baptism and your wife was invited, and there were some texts that were a little bit challenging. You changed the generational cycle by not responding in a way that is habitual to the family system. Like just that tiny bit that you shared gave me goosebumps. And I don't know if people out there listening understand how significant that is response. In a different way in your communication, as simple as through a text and not perpetuating that cycle. So I just want to say, yay, community, yay, you, yay 12. That's profound stuff.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

There's one thing if I can share what happened. I won't share the actual text, but just the text in general was like, I didn't think your wife liked me. And uh the response was in a very kind and gentle way, my wife has no ill will or animosity towards you at all. The next response was I need to discuss whether or not she would be invited with my husband. Thankfully, my son-in-law, who I've met, I think I've met him three or four times, was the one who actually responded to my daughter and said they're both invited.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

And I just want to comment on this too for everyone that's listening. Like we're talking about this generational thing and why doesn't it change? And it did change. There's new influences in the system. Your daughter, instead of making a decision in a closed system, the system is now shifted and it's opened to include more people. And she went to her most trusted person and shifted the whole generational conversation herself. And you didn't have to do that. And I don't have to do that with my kids or my grandkids. It happened. No one can deny that happened.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

That's right. I didn't, I didn't have to, I didn't say, why don't you go ask your husband? Right? Now, I'm sure unrecovered me could have done that, but recovered me did not do that, thank goodness.

Wanting More Time With The Baby

SPEAKER_02 23:34

And then this nuance, your story is a little bit different with being connected to your grandchild from the beginning, pretty much, but this ethereal feeling, I'm not sure if you have that or if you don't experience that kind of thing. What do you want to say about that?

A Letter That Backfired And Closing

SPEAKER_01 23:46

It's funny, I was thinking about that as Renee was talking, and you know, just knowing your situation. And what's ethereal sort of seems ethereal for me is that I've been so disconnected from my daughter for so long. You know, up until 13, like you said, you know, I was close, we did things together, I was an involved dad. I know her until she was 13. And then high school is a blank, college is a blank, graduate school is a blank, even though I went to events that I was able to go to. But as far as that relationship, it's that part of the relationship, that second half, so from 13 to 26, which is where we are now, that feels ethereal. And then actually my relationship with the grandbaby feels less ethereal than that. But I guess what feels I don't know if it's ethereal, is that I want more, right? So I've seen the baby in October, I saw the baby in November, then I didn't see the baby again for December, January, and almost the end of February. So, you know, two and a half, three months. And while I feel like I'm connecting with the baby, uh, you know, I'm having these thoughts of like, if she sees me every three months, is she gonna even remember me? And I get to hold her, and she's uh she smells like, you know, there's nothing better than new baby smell. I wish I could show a picture here because I have a picture of myself with my daughter at the baptism. And if you looked at that picture, you would go, There's no alienation anywhere in the world in this picture. You know, my mind goes to the what ifs, you know, like what if I only get to see her every three or four months. And I did ask for a little bit more, and those responses have been currently met with sort of a soft no. Doesn't mean it's a permanent no, but a soft no. So to Renee's point, I get beautiful pictures every week. I don't get I get a video once in a while, but I get beautiful pictures and text communication about babies starting to scoot backwards and she's all over the place. And I get these beautiful pictures every week, sometimes without any text communication with it, just the pictures, which I know is, you know, my daughter feeling safe, you know, where that is right now, and I can be okay with that, even though I would like more. Thank you, Stephen.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

And I'm gonna share something that I don't think I've ever shared before is uh I don't know how I found out that my daughter was pregnant, but my strategy at that point with a lot of recovery was like, I know I'm not gonna have a relationship with my daughter, I'm not gonna be involved in the birth, I'm not gonna know anything about it. Let me reach out to the other grandparent that I've never met. So I wrote a letter, you know, and my communication's super strong. So I go through it and it seemed like it's nonviolent communication, it's not intrusive, anything like that. And I do some kind of Google search and I find her address and I mail her a letter, and then I get a response from my son-in-law. Hey, don't communicate with my mom. She's got nothing to do with this. And naturally, I need to acknowledge that and you know, take responsibility for it. And you know, I think it's those strategies that we keep coming up with, and we come up with them when we have more recovery, so there's less violence involved in them, but they're still super violent. Like that was that was a lot. And I was hoping that I, you know, I was like, hey, I'm a grandparent, you're a grandparent, I don't have contact. I'd love to hear about the grandchild once in a while, something like that. And it wasn't a great strategy. Like the intent, and I'd like to say this to everyone out there like, what would be the impact on someone else's nervous system to get a random letter? Someone found your address. What would be the impact if it wasn't great? And I have a lot to say about that, but I'm not gonna do that. Wow. I got kind of like a tired wow. You know, as we're talking about this stuff, it's really interesting. Like you're listening for the first time. And for us, this is our first time as grandparents having this conversation at this depth with anyone that's in recovery or that is also a grandparent that's struggling with these dynamics. I feel a little bit drained and a little bit tired and emotional and super grateful that I get to have these conversations. I didn't even know it was possible. So if you're hearing this and you're like, who talks about this stuff? It's like hells to the bells, we do. We get to talk about it, we get to uncover what's going on, we get to discover new ways of doing stuff, and we get to discard stuff that doesn't necessarily work. That comes out of 12-step. Uncover, discover, discard. Thanks for coming out to play in the sandbox today. Great resources in the show notes, free 12-step program. Donate, we're a 501c3 nonprofit. If you got a lot of money, you don't know what to do with it. I'm giving you an option. It's supposed to be funny, but also true. Like, share, comment, let us know what you'd like us to chat about if we're not chatting about it. And I need a nap. And with that being said, and in case no one said it yet to the day, I love you. I love you, Steven. I love you, Renee, I love you, Nana. I love you, no, no, and I love I love me. I love the opa and me too. So I love you, have a beautiful day, and we'll see you around the neighborhood.