The Subtle Warning Signs: How Complacency Can Capsize Success in Tech and Life with Rado Kotorov

Navigating the perils of complacency, we confront the silent threats that lurk in the shadows of success both on a personal and professional level. Our conversation takes a personal turn as Marc recounts a health scare, which serves as a cautionary tale reminding us all to never take our well-being for granted. Together with insights from our insightful guest Rado Kotorov, and a special appearance by Dr. Stephen Hess, we illustrate the importance of recognizing the winds of change before they become storms, emphasizing the need for swift action and the dangers of passivity.

The odyssey through the landscape of data technologies is as riveting as it is enlightening, tracing my own unexpected journey from philosophy student to tech innovator. We unravel the threads of serendipity that led Rado to programming, and the profound impact of mentorship and ethical leadership during his time at Information Builders. As he recounts the birth of Trendalyze and later, StoryData, we peel back the layers of complexity in understanding and communicating with the digital world, underscoring their vision to tame the information overload that defines today's business environment.

As we venture into the realm of data presentation, we explore the seismic shifts from paper to pixels, charting how generational preferences are molding the future of information consumption. We reflect on how businesses, big and small, are grappling with this transformation, noting the agility of startups in contrast to the cautious recalibration of established corporations. Rado highlights the empowerment that comes from accessible data, sparking innovation across journalism, government, and free enterprise.

About Rado:
Rado Kotorov is the Co-Founder and CEO of Storied Data Inc. and author of the book "Organizational Intelligence: How Smart Companies Use Information to Become More Competitive and Profitable."  He is an inventor, entrepreneur, and philosopher. Studied everything -- law, economics, design, tailoring, game theory. He has worked in start ups and big international companies. He was never hired for a particular job, but to create something new. He has written two books, many peer-reviewed articles, loves photography and cycling, and is a true road-warrior - travels 150 miles per year.

Website storieddata.com
LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/radokotorov

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Transcript

Announcer: 0:00

Entrepreneur, author and financial consultant, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing entrepreneurial business owners create a vision for the future and follow through on their goals and intentions. Ang Onorato is a business growth strategist who blends psychology and business together to create conscious leaders and business owners who impact the world. Founders Forum is a radio show podcast sharing the real stories behind entrepreneurship as founders discover more about themselves, while providing valuable lessons and some fun and entertainment for you. Now here's Marc and Ang.

Marc Bernstein: 0:35

Good morning America. Good morning New Jersey. Good morning Philadelphia. Good morning New York. Good morning Midwest. Good morning West Coast South. All of America and all of the world Happy to be with you today. And we have some special guests with us today. We have Rado he has a one-name person. We'll tell you more about him and maybe even his last name in a little bit. And we've got Dr Steve Hess, who was a guest on our last program. And, of course, we've got Ang Onorato, and Ang has something important to say about a subject that we can all relate to.

Ang Onorato: 1:10

Yeah, so we were, Marc. You and I were chatting on the way into the studio today and I've been complaining for the last well year, but last couple months that I have a need now you have been complaining.

Announcer: 1:21

I have been complaining because I am.

Ang Onorato: 1:24

I'm too young, but I need a new hip. And I need a new hip because I've known my entire life that I had enough scoliosis, that it was going to destroy my hips at some point, and I did absolutely nothing.

Marc Bernstein: 1:35

And, by the way, Ang is the corporate hippie, so if she doesn't have a good hip, how could?

Ang Onorato: 1:39

she Exactly, and I'm not taking my own advice in many ways, but it dawned on me about complacency because I've been very healthy, I'm very athletic, I didn't do the precautionary things throughout my life to make sure my spine was good and strong and straight. So here we are and I'm really cranky about it, but I only have myself to blame in many ways. So I relate this to business because I think it's easy when if you're, or life, if things are going along and you've got good brand and you've got good customers and you've got good revenue or whatever take your eye off the ball and be complacent. So, whether it's personal or business as a topic of our show, I'm just curious how that plays in with you, Marc, and maybe our guests as well, and because I'm pretty upset about my needing a hip.

Marc Bernstein: 2:25

Well, first of all, I observed something from what you said your ability to recognize personal responsibility, which I think is kind of related, but it's, you know, I, I you don't see a lot of that and it's something I know I've worked really hard on because I really feel like I manifest my own destiny. You know it's up to me what happens with whatever comes at me. You know you can't control what comes at you, but you can control how you respond to it. Also, on the subject of complacency, I know in business I had a mentor years ago who said you know, everyone says if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But he used to say if it's broke, fix it with a sense of urgency, if it ain't broke, make it better, which I think is something we can all think about. And I like to say you know, with our forward focus stuff, that if you don't move forward you move backwards. So it's another way of saying the same thing, and that's certainly true on a personal level and business, I think.

Marc Bernstein: 3:22

What do our guests have to say about this, steve or Rado? Whoever first has a thought? Steve?

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 3:27

Yeah, I agree with that. I think that you know, when there are challenges, it's easy to you know to have to fix a problem or to make it better. But I think the problem is when things are going well. You know we get complacent and then you get left behind. And so I agree with that. I think when the business is going well, when things are going well, that's when you have to fight that urge to be complacent. So I agree with everything you just said.

Marc Bernstein: 3:50

Rado, I'm sure you have thoughts on this as well.

Rado Kotorov: 3:53

I think I'm seeing something else that many things are broken and actually people kind of be even more complacent when things are broken, and that's a new trend. I think it's part of the distraction of too much information getting on various other things. But I'm really worried about that and I speak to a lot of people in business that say, well, we can make this more efficient because it's broken or we're bleeding costs here, but no one at the moment is looking seriously at it and we can put it up. In fact, I had many discussions in the last three years that rational arguments about cost cutting are not the most important, and that, to me, is a form of complacency If you're bleeding, you're bleeding.

Marc Bernstein: 4:39

I also the expression kicking the can down the road. I've been using that a lot because I think we do that. I think our government obviously does that. Governments do that, entities do that. I've used that expression in our business.

Marc Bernstein: 4:51

Sometimes we let issues get away from us and say we'll deal with that later, I'll think about it tomorrow. That's a Scarlett O'Hara, I think, from Gone with the Wind, but I agree with you. I think complacency is also like just letting things hang out there and not dealing with things you're aware of. Complacency can also be not being aware as well, I think, is the other aspect of it not looking hard enough to see what could be possibly broken that you could be fixing or moving ahead on. So with that, let's introduce our guest. This is Rado Kotorov, but like Prince Madonna and others, he just likes to be called Rado. It's easier to remember and it's a great name. It's unusual and you'll find out where he got the name Rado soon, but he's co-founder and CEO of Story Data Inc.

Marc Bernstein: 5:40

And author of the book Organizational Intelligence how Smart Companies Use Information to Become More Competitive and Profitable. Data Inc. And author of the book organizational intelligence how smart companies use information to become more competitive and profitable. He's in person with us in the studio today and he is an inventor, entrepreneur and philosopher. He has studied pretty much everything law, economics, design, tailoring and game theory. He's worked in startups, big international companies and he never gets hired for a particular job, but otherwise to create something new. He's written two books. He's written many peer-reviewed articles. He loves photography and cycling. A true road warrior who travels 150,000 miles plus a year, and he's here with us today. Good morning, rado. Good morning.

Rado Kotorov: 6:25

Thankado, good morning. Thank you for having me.

Marc Bernstein: 6:27

Sure, so tell us. You have a very interesting story about how you came to America, how you you know your educational background, and then you came to do what you do today. So I'll let you carry that and tell us the story.

Rado Kotorov: 6:40

Well, I grew up in communist Bulgaria and I went to school there. High school I did my first degree in law in Bulgaria, and then the world of communism crumbled and new opportunities opened and I came to study in the United States. I fell in love, got married and I stayed in the States.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 7:02

And.

Rado Kotorov: 7:03

I must say when people ask me what's the biggest difference between the communist country that I grew up in and the United States, I said color, because when you went to a shop anywhere at that time, you had black and gray suits. And you came to the States and you were stunned about how much color is there and your eyes are just delighted and inundated with the color. But that also reflects choice of ideas and other things like that. And your eyes are just delighted and inundated with the color, but that also reflects choice of ideas and other things like that.

Rado Kotorov: 7:28

And so life is not a straight line. I didn't plan it like that. I never thought that it was going to be possible this to happen, but it happened in this way and so it happened. With my educational background From law it went into economics and ultimately in decision and game theory in the philosophy department of Bowling Green.

Marc Bernstein: 7:48

I love your story about how, in graduate school, they made you take a second language. Tell us about that.

Rado Kotorov: 7:55

Well, there is graduate. Schools have a requirement for a second language, to broaden your worldview, so to say. And they came to me and said well, this, because I kind of skipped that, they thought I was bilingual so I didn't have to take it. But it turns out I had to take it. And they said well, this semester, the only course we offer is Russian. And I said I'm not ever going to go and study Russian. I've been forced to study Russian for 11 years in Bulgaria and I didn't learn it successfully. And I came to the United States to study Russian, of all things. It's never going to happen. So they said we understand that, so you can take Java. And that's where my story with computers started.

Marc Bernstein: 8:38

Interesting, and you didn't really have background in computers up till then.

Rado Kotorov: 8:44

No, I had some background, but this was my formal big introduction to programming in serious computer languages.

Marc Bernstein: 8:52

And then you had a job at Information Builders and a mentor there. Let's talk about that and how that led to where you are today.

Rado Kotorov: 8:59

Big mentor and great experience. Again, it happened serendipitously. I was interviewing for a job. Somebody called him and said you should interview this guy and he said I don't have a job for you, but you're very smart and we have to figure out what you do. And we became.

Rado Kotorov: 9:16

Jerry Cohen was the founder of pretty much the software industry in the United States. It was the first big and largest software company in New York City. He never wanted to go anywhere else the first you know program for actually doing reporting and helping managers making decisions against large, unique systems. And he managed this company. It became quite big. He managed it for like a big family. I always admired that. He knew 2,500 employees around the world by name. He was the guy that managed by walking and he believed that he's the first one that has to check the product. He would be the first one in the office and go and basically run tests and QA the product. And he said when I talk to customers that this product works, I have to personally know that it works. So he had an incredible ethics in terms of what it meant to do a service to customers and largely in society too, because he contributed to a lot of causes in society.

Marc Bernstein: 10:21

Amazing story and personally I didn't know that Jerry Cohen was basically the founder of the software industry. That's a pretty amazing story and I don't know that either of you know that.

Ang Onorato: 10:34

Just from the work that I do in executive recruiting I know very much about information, builders and stuff back in the day, but not some of the ins and outs of that story. So that's really amazing.

Marc Bernstein: 10:43

So I think we can jump to builders and stuff back in the day, but not some of the ins and outs of that story. So that's really amazing. So I think we can jump to because of time, we could jump to the founding of Trendalyze, which was in 2014. So let's talk about that.

Rado Kotorov: 10:57

It's a big research project was, at the time, the idea we were for the first time getting the notions of IoT and how IoT can change everything. Iot was a very different technology than anything else, because you're suddenly getting data that's coming on milliseconds and nanoseconds and intervals that the human brain cannot even imagine. We didn't know what we'll do with this data. I kind of got very fascinated looking at the data because it had strange patterns. And then I talked to cardiologists and they said you know that all we do is we look at data and we see patterns and we diagnose you on that. And so I said well, what does that mean? They said, well, it's basically when you look at the line that has patterns. It's like a dictionary.

Rado Kotorov: 11:43

We learned cardiology's 250 patterns and we diagnose every heart disease based on recognizing these in the data. And then we looked at that and we found the same patterns in car engines, in electricity production and whatnot, and we realized that the time series data was like a DNA production and whatnot. And we realized that the time series data was like a DNA and if you actually recognize the patterns and name the patterns in this data, you can communicate with machines, and so that's how we started. How can we make you know the conversation intelligent conversation with machines, given that their language is time series data. And now that chat GTP came, people started understanding it. So they say, oh, it's just like chatGTP, but for machines.

Rado Kotorov: 12:28

Right, yes in a way it is.

Marc Bernstein: 12:30

Gotcha and Trendalyze still exists, correct? Yeah, it still exists yeah, and then you created the company StoryData, so tell us about that.

Rado Kotorov: 12:38

Well, storydata is an entirely different thing we were concerned about and we were looking. It came through. People demand, people were asking how they present data and distribute data and information in general. We are getting more and more data and we have to present more and we have to send more and more things of these and we've become so complacent about how inefficient this process is that we stop looking at it. The cost, the time it takes us to do things so three things. If we look at that space, basically, we produce annually humans about 10 trillion documents. That's more than the Oreo cookies, pepsi and Coke produced and consumed a year. And these 4 trillion documents take about 50% of our productivity time in meaningless tasks. This is like copy and paste and format and et cetera, and then we also think about them.

Marc Bernstein: 13:36

Too much paper. It's not only paper.

Rado Kotorov: 13:39

They can be digital too but it's too much production of information, and then we have different tools for each one of them. So if you're making a presentation, you have PowerPoint. If you're making data, you have Excel.

Rado Kotorov: 13:53

And if you're doing Word textual documents. You have Word and then you add systems to them business intelligence systems and et cetera, so the cost goes around, and business intelligence systems and et cetera, so the cost goes around, but at the end, all a person wants to do is to produce a piece of information that conveys some information to someone else and be able to publish it on the web and do it somewhere else. And so the magic in this? Because we're complacent about that. We don't see the cost, the time and everything.

Rado Kotorov: 14:21

There is a magical thing in technology that saves us from this, and it's called convergence, and the technology that did this very successfully is the iPhone. They converge communication, location and content, and the savings are incredible. And so we did the same thing. We converged into the design, the data and the no-code automation of these documents so you can produce them very efficiently at low cost and distribute them in one tool without too much manual tasks. And if you're going to update documents, you automate, and you can think about that in bank statements, financial statements, annual reports and whatnot. Dashboards, web pages Tremend tremendous waste now is just consolidated into something.

Marc Bernstein: 15:06

You had shown me a great example of how that works and sort of the replacement for a PowerPoint, and how that can work and how efficient that can be. We do have to take a break right now. We'll come back and talk more about that in a minute.

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Marc Bernstein: 16:20

We're back on Founders Forum with our guest Rado Kotorov, and we've got Dr Stephen Hess in the studio along with Ang Onorato and myself, and we were just talking about story data and how it can make gathering and reading information much more efficient, and you showed me an example of a PowerPoint. That's one way that the PowerPoint can be changed so it's much more efficient. And you showed me an example of a PowerPoint. That's one way that can be. The PowerPoint can be changed. It's much more efficient. It works with annual reports and board reports. Why don't we use that as an example of how the efficiency of that works?

Rado Kotorov: 16:53

Yeah, so these were traditionally different documents PowerPoints to annual reports or boardroom reports, and typically, or if they are collapsed, the boardroom report gets copied and pasted from somewhere into a PowerPoint. But let's look at the PowerPoint process and everything in it. First of all, powerpoint is still linear-based, page-based. We are still thinking in terms of paging, which we inherited from the Gutenberg press right, and actually, when you move to the web, you realize that there is no more the concept of pages in the web, because it's either scrollable or tabbed or different navigation. That's nonlinear. So you organize your content differently.

Rado Kotorov: 17:31

But the important things come when it comes to data.

Rado Kotorov: 17:34

Now why you should have a chart spanning 100 pages, which make it difficult, because if somebody wants to compare a chart on page 40 and a page 89, you have to click back 40 times, but instead of that you can put interactive dashboards directly into the presentation.

Rado Kotorov: 17:50

So the point is when we abstract from all that and say well, all you want is to present information and if you do it on the web, which is the modern medium of content, you can combine an incredible design, an incredible functional narrative through navigation and tabs and other organizational elements, and put interactive data that doesn't require you, the person, to switch between different perspectives and she can relate to me as a psychologist about that that, as you actually are switching slides to show different data, it's like the reset button on a computer for the brain. So we perceive interactive data in a much faster way. So the point here is, instead of spending so much time to put it together across hundreds of pages, you can make it as a web presentation and automatically update the data with the push of a button on the frequency that you want, saving yourself all these slide updates.

Marc Bernstein: 18:50

On the example. I mean just to turn it into like an everyday experience. What you showed me is you can one screen, so you're one screen it's one page.

Rado Kotorov: 18:59

It all operates from one page and that was NASA's dream, if you actually look.

Marc Bernstein: 19:03

I said screen because I was trying to get away from Gutenberg. But yeah, but it's one page, one screen, which is amazing. It changed my mind about how we can absorb information. I thought about that too, because I'm on a couple of boards One, we have all these documents and a table of contents and you got to go to this and back to that. And it's hard, it's. You know, I have a pretty good brain, but it's not. Doesn't make it simple to absorb what you're trying to, what you're trying to learn.

Rado Kotorov: 19:31

So Interactivity helps the brain absorb information faster rather than the linear page-based approach. And you mentioned boards. This is a hot topic today. We just finished the board reportings for Veolia, the largest utility water and electricity utility in the world, and they were having the same problem with hundreds of pages of boardroom reports. How do they go quickly through them and how do they tie the information between the different pages? And it's interesting that this is becoming a big problem, recognized now, because there is Edward Norton who just announced that he wants to redo the boardroom reports too, because nobody reads a 90-page PDF, and so that helps. We see that in the market there is a general understanding that the time has come to move, to change the information presentation paradigm. We've been with the page-based approach and the printed paradigm of it, but now, after 30, 40 years of web development and usage, that's changing, and so it's time to upgrade those means of presenting.

Marc Bernstein: 20:40

So you've changed the paradigm and you've changed the use of technology in a way to have people think differently. How is that going in terms of acceptance in the marketplace?

Rado Kotorov: 20:50

It's very interesting, it's really generational, I would say. So I go and say, if we look at a person below 30, they go and say, oh, I never need to have Microsoft Office, why do I need five tools? I can just use one tool. Because all my information should be on the web, or because our format allows you to email it. You can also email it, but you can publish it on the web or on mobile. So they don't see anymore the need of different tools. They also don't see the difference between data and other type of content.

Rado Kotorov: 21:23

So we were used to think data is one thing, and then narrative and pictures as that, they think of this as all in the same thing, very different. Then, on the other hand, when we jump to people over 30, between 30 and 40, they're more interested as a consumer, that the information is interactive, easily accessible. They don't want to read anything that's pages. They say we want to move away from page flips to page clicks to clicks, from page flips to clicks. And then, strange enough, when we get into people over 50, they say I want my report printed. We were actually at the ESG conference in Europe and somebody said but I want my 700-page report printed and on my desk every day. And the young people in the room said aren't we at an ESG report saving trees and stuff like that, talking about that? So it's very interestingly, I say we see here clearly how the habits have been formed, although, from a consumer point of view, people want definitely an easier access and a more readable presentation of the information.

Marc Bernstein: 22:33

So that's from the consumer point of view, you're basically a B2B business, correct, and a B2C and a B2C, how are people buying the product? I guess is the question. How is it being accepted from a?

Rado Kotorov: 22:48

okay, let's do this kind of point of view, I'll say that our largest adoption is among publishers of statistical data. These are many financial organizations that publish deals in structured finance. They see tremendous savings. They've been wanting to do that in a nice form. Their users want it and it was incredibly expensive. So they do with us things in one day that otherwise take them custom development of 9 to 12 months, and these are typically companies that are up to 100 people very rapidly adopting it and their staff learning very quickly about how to do it themselves. Because that was our goal. We need to empower people to create content. The large organizations we see a different picture. Oh, I invested so much in this, why can't I do it there? So the mindset there is a little bit of a. I'm going to try it. You know, we were taught not to throw good money after some cost A bit of complacency.

Marc Bernstein: 23:47

it sounds like.

Rado Kotorov: 23:48

Yeah, and they kind of. You see how they wait and wait until there is a significant traction in the smaller players and then they're like, oh, I'm going to go now because it's safe they're kicking the can down the road right. And I'm reading a lot about that. Some CEO complained that he's not seeing too much innovation coming or risk-taking. We definitely see that.

Marc Bernstein: 24:12

Did you, Ang, I know, did you want to talk about? We talked about who, not how a little earlier, having the right people, how important are your people to your, to the development of your product and to getting it out there? Incredibly important.

Rado Kotorov: 24:26

This is a very complex technology. What we built I mean one of our things is that when people see it, they say that's so easy, it's a toy. But the iPhone is a toy, but behind it is a serious technology. So I would say that we have developers that have worked together for 20 years that are rock stars in terms of that.

Rado Kotorov: 24:44

And I'm a firm believer, because software is like writing books. The maintenance of it, after that the marketing involves a lot of people, but building the core thing requires a few people that are really, really talented and know how to work. Product management, for us, is the same. We're now building marketing and sales culture.

Ang Onorato: 25:04

Yeah, so I know we only have a few minutes left, but I've been so quiet in this because my mind is just blown, having worked with technology companies and leaders, and I just wanted to point out, rado, that you hear the words innovation and visionary all the time, especially when I'm looking at resumes of leaders, but what you're describing and the interaction of all the different disciplines this isn't even just visionary. In my book, this is almost. You're blazing a whole new trail. This is a whole new Wild West in terms of how you're bringing exactly what users I think really need, and this is fascinating, and I think we need a whole second show because I have so many thoughts and questions for you, but we're running out of time, so I'll leave it at that for now.

Marc Bernstein: 25:42

If I could keep up with all Ang's second shows, we'd be booked out. I know, yes, which we should do. But last question, and it probably will have to be our last. Usually we go further, but if this were three years from today, may of 2027, and, I'm sorry, may, if this were 10 years from today, may of what?

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 26:02

year is that 2034.

Marc Bernstein: 26:05

And you were looking back on the last 10 years. What would have happened in your business life, your professional life, anything else you want to include to make that have been the successful 10-year period that you desire?

Rado Kotorov: 26:19

For us, there are two things. One is from a product perspective. We would like to see the product widely adopted, so I would like to see PDF disappear from the market for many reasons not consumable, but also the trees that are being killed because of it and the printing struggling with adoption among the users and content creators, who are struggling with the ability to create from presentations and things like that out. And specifically, what I probably most want to see and where we put the emphasis is because we work with data, to see an increase of data literacy and data transparency, because that's important for free markets, it's important for democracy, it's important for many causes, and we see so many people collecting data and not being able to share it and to publish it in a consumable format.

Rado Kotorov: 27:13

You see when the government is distributing data and you get the data set in CSV and then you have to spend five hours manipulating it to understand what it is. People don't need data dumps. They need, like good journalism, with data when it's presented to them in the way that they can understand what this data tells, what story it tells. And that's what I call, if we achieve this, to see the journalists, the people who collect this data, the governments that have this data, putting it in the hands of the people who can do it, then you're going to see a tremendous proliferation of ideas and fact-based decision-making, because right now we see a lot of hype and other things, but facts are facts at the end of the day and we have the data in many areas to prove facts.

Marc Bernstein: 28:01

So our listeners are primarily entrepreneurs. We are obviously big promoters of free enterprise and capitalism when used right, and you are going to change the landscape of all of that with what you're doing, arata. So it's really great to have you here, and I think, unfortunately, we're out of time and I think we do have to discuss a part two down the road at some point. And thank you all for being here on Founders Forum today and we'll see you next week.