Ep 81 | When the stakes are high - What can investors learn from an Olympian?

Former Hockeyroo and Olympian Fiona Ryan joins David Andrew and Aden Wilkins to talk about the mindset behind high performance. Fiona shares her journey from elite hockey through a serious cancer diagnosis, a career in law, motherhood and building her own business, and the pair draw out what her story means for how we invest and make decisions under pressure.

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Chapters:

(0:00)  Welcome and Wins of the Week
(5:35)  Meet Olympian Fiona Ryan
(6:00)  From State Teams to a Shock Junior Squad Cut
(10:00)  Turning Rejection Into a Junior World Cup Spot
(14:50)  101 Games and a Commonwealth Gold Medal
(17:30)  A Broken Collarbone Six Weeks From London
(24:15)  Retiring at 25 for a Career in Law
(30:50)  A Hodgkin Lymphoma Diagnosis and Fighting Back
(33:30)  John's Stage Four Cancer and Staying Forward Focused
(41:40)  Fear of Failure and the Ego vs Character Mindset
(49:05)  Self Awareness and Getting Clear on Your Values
(54:35)  Ambition in Retirement and Building Mumsly

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Recorded and produced by Podwave Studios: https://podwavestudios.au/

The Purposeful Investor Podcast is a public service provided for Australian investors wanting to make smart decisions with their money, avoid costly mistakes, look after the people they care about, and, have a great life!

We draw on over 30 years of experience from David Andrew and the Capital Partners team.

For more information on Capital Partners' award winning team, visit capital-partners.com.au.

Have a question? Email us ask@capital-partners.com.au.

This episode provides general advice only. We do not consider your personal circumstances when we share this information. Always refer to your financial adviser for advice about your personal circumstances. 

Capital Partners Consulting Pty Ltd AFSL 227148 trading as Capital Partners Private Wealth Advisers ABN 27 086 670 788.

Transcript

What Success And Happiness Mean

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Happiness is the outcome of success and success is when our values align with our actions.

SPEAKER_03 0:06

Every positively focused podcast like this, there's about 30 that are telling you the world's going to come to an end and you should act in the way they are telling you to act.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Six and a half weeks out where I just crushed my collarbone, went for in for surgery the next day, five and a half hours surgery, completely dropped from that same squad. So that was probably my first really challenging moment.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

There's no second prize, especially for a sport like hockey, where it's not like you console yourself for saying, oh well, I didn't quite make it, but geez, I made a lot of money.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

It's definitely not that.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

I have a zoom in or zoom out mentality. Zoom in, how do I be really present in the moment right now and just bring my best self to this moment, but also zoom out and how do I see the bigger picture? How do I trust the bigger picture? How do I see the process to get to the outcome?

Aden 0:54

People are always fearful of what's the worst, the doomsday, what's gonna happen, how can I protect that? So, how do you go about having conversations with people to help them work

Welcome And Why This Podcast Exists

Aden 1:02

through that? Welcome to another episode of the Purposeful Investor Podcast. We're a podcast for successful families who want to make smart decisions with their money and avoid costly mistakes. We're here so that you and the people you care about are going to be okay no matter what. And we're also here to set you up to live a great life. Welcome back to another episode of the Purposeful Investor Podcast. Today we've got a very special episode in line for all of our listeners. We are joined by Olympian Fiona Ryan. Fiona, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Pleasure to be here, Aiden. Thanks for having me.

Aden 1:36

And on my other side, I've got Capital Partners Founder, David Andrew. David, welcome.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

I'm happy to be back, but I'm a bit boring compared to our guests. So I'm just going to call it for what it is.

Aden 1:45

So we've got a bit of a we've got something a little bit different in line for everyone today. So we're going to be talking a little bit about performance, success, resilience, handling high-pressure environments, and understanding a little bit of Fiona's perspective and how she deals with professional athletes, executives, people going through all of this, but then I guess overlaying a bit of our experience of what we've seen from the financial investing side of things of what people who've done really well on that side, how they handle that. And there's going to be a little bit of a nice dichotomy to see where it all ends up.

Wins Of The Week

Aden 2:18

As our listeners know, we like to start off with our little win of the week. So before we jump into the content, we want to reflect on what's something that's been a little win or a positive focus in the last week. So if you honest, since you're our guest, what was your little win?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

I was working with a team earlier this week and we're doing a session on opportunity versus pressure. And the team split up into several smaller groups, and they had to come up with a moment sometime in the next three to four months where they saw it as a perceived pressure moment. And how would their actions look if they approached that moment through a pressure lens versus an opportunity lens? And it was really interesting that every single one of the small groups came up with the exact same perceived pressure moment, and none of them had discussed it as a group or collectively. So it was a fantastic session where the athletes went away feeling relieved, a sense of connection, just by talking about that perceived pressure moment and how they want to go about it together. So that was a big win for me in terms of as a mindset consultant for them, but also for them as a team.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Love it.

Aden 3:20

What about you, Dave? What was your little win?

SPEAKER_03 3:23

Ours is a personal one. So our listeners, I think, I've talked about Walter, our grand dog. And um we've now made the decision that we're going to get a puppy, which we're very excited about. But it all happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going the little black labrador puppy again. But the funny story is clients, uh Andy and Jane, have got a beautiful black lab called um Bonnie. And Bonnie is from a kennel where we were thinking we would get our dog. Well, I just bumped in on the street around the corner from us the other day, Ernie. Ernie's a four-month-old black labrador, and he comes from the same kennel. So Ernie and I have got a bit of a thing going. It's so beautiful. And that's where that was the thing that tipped tipped Robin. She said, I think you're ready, aren't you? And I said, Yep.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

Even though she'll be doing all the work. I keep saying to her, it doesn't matter if I'm ready, it matters if you're ready. Yeah. Anyway, what about you, Aiden? Love it.

Aden 4:18

Um I'm gonna go a professional win. So last week we had a client event. Um, we hosted a whole bunch of our clients, had a guest speaker there. And during the event, a few clients came up to me that I don't um directly work with, but they gave some really nice feedback about the podcast, saying they're enjoying it. And I guess for me and probably you, Dave, as well, it was enough. Sometimes we think, oh, we're we're trying pretty hard at this thing. Is it are people getting value? And it was nice to actually get um yeah, some good feedback that people are taking, getting a lot of benefit from it as well. So that was my little win.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Do you know what I get sometimes? I get people who aren't related to capital partners, like they're not clients say, Oh, is it working? I say, Well, what do you mean is it working? And they say, Oh like, like, is it working from a marketing point of view? And I it stops me and reminds me of why we do this podcast. And then it's not for us to be out doing marketing. This is our opportunity to speak directly to our clients on matters and topics that we think are useful for them. And um, if other people benefit from the love, then that's great. But it really is always a great reminder of why we're in the studio. We're here talking to our clients, which I think is really nice. And we've got a great conversation in store for them today. You bet.

Aden 5:33

So I do want to give you a little bit of an introduction, V. So not just the former Olympian, there's there's quite a bit that you've been through in your life, and we're going to go through your story. And I think what our listeners will get a lot of benefit from is I guess understanding how you think about and how you work with people to get into that right mindset to achieve success or perform at a really, really high level through whatever aspect of life it is. But so you're an Olympian, a lawyer, business owner, leadership coach, mother, and wife. So there's a lot that's gone through that.

Dropped From The Squad

Aden 6:06

But why don't we start off right back at the beginning and you tell us a little bit about your sporting background and how that all evolved?

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah, sure. I started off playing a lot of different sports um in high school, and that was really enjoyable and just probably a reflection of the fact that my family was sporty. I had three older brothers, so we were always running amuck in the backyard and on sporting fields. So I played a lot of different sports during high school, and then hockey really stole my heart, probably in late high school, um, when I started taking it a little bit more serious in terms of state teams, um, Aussie junior teams, um, being given the privilege of captaining a lot of those teams. And it all happened quite naturally until probably year 11 or 12. So year 11 got picked in the national junior squad, which was such a privilege and came quite out of the blue. And then year 12, one year older, wiser, better, you would assume, um, completely dropped from that same squad. So that was probably my first really challenging moment that a lot of growth came from.

Aden 7:08

When you when you reflect back on that, is that I guess the moment where you think, oh, this has helped to shape how I think about helping people going through similar situations?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Definitely. And I think a lot of the people I work with can relate to moments like that. So it was a huge opportunity for growth and often talk to athletes and corporates around when things don't go right and don't go your way, those moments actually give you the skills that you need in the future to perform at a better level so that it doesn't repeat.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

We see this in the workplace where a lot of young people um younger people come into the workforce expecting things to be pretty perfect. Like it's been pretty perfect through school, it's been pretty perfect through uni. There hasn't been a lot of if not perfect, there's not been a lot of challenges to the premise that everything's gonna be okay. And I like to tell them the story about well, the world wasn't made for you. Like the world just wasn't made for you. You have to fit into the world. You're gonna have to work it out. So when you get hit with a a challenge like that, being selected in the Australian junior team in 11, year eleven, and then being dropped in year twelve, that's pretty confronting. The world the but the hockey system wasn't made for you, Fiona. You're gonna have to work this out. And that's kind of what you did, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Spot on. Yeah. So I think it's quite easy during those times to play the blame game, to look external from you. You know, selectors don't rate me, the coaches don't rate me.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Um someone's got it in for me.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Yep. There was, you know, someone from Queensland who picked six or seven players because that was their background, or you know, it's giving control of the situation external to yourself. And I think it's really important in those moments to take the control back. What can I do? If I get to that point where the email comes out, which is how selection used to happen, and my name's on that list or it's not on that list, hand on heart, I can be really satisfied either way that I did as much as I could to um to do my best and be at my best at that point in time. And then there's nothing more you can do either way.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

So There's a really interesting parallel there too, Aiden, in what we see in retirement, where people who are um self-directed versus other directed. So people who are other directed, i.e., they're sort of waiting for the cues from others or the world as to what they do next versus those who are just out there and sort of self-directed. The latter group tend to be far more satisfied in retirement because they just get on and do things. They just get on and take control of what has to happen next. Yeah. Whereas if you're other directed and you're sort of blaming and you're not sure what you know, you're waiting for the world to give you a cue. The world doesn't always do that.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

It's up to you. Yeah, it's a really good point.

Aden 9:54

So because you did end up being Olympian. So how did it go after you had that initial setback? What was your mindset and what was the journey after that?

Plans Per Session And Control

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Yep. So there's a big gap between the two in terms of um I had to make a decision. So I finished year twelve, um, applied myself to my studies in in that point in time, and then I had about six months, and I actually got a neighbour who was really good at running to um train me twice a week. So I was training with WASE, the West Australian Institute of Sport at the time for hockey and doing club training, and then I did an extra two running sessions on top of that every week. So it was a pretty heavy load. But I knew the team for the junior World Cup that was being picked six months later from the squad that I was no longer in was going to Santiago in Chile and it was hot and they needed a really fit team. So that was something in my control that I could do to really put myself forward and get myself in a state where I was as fit and fast and strong as I I could possibly be. Also, every training I knew I had to have exponential growth during that time. I couldn't just plot along and just improve at a the rate that everyone else was, because I'd still be sitting, you know, 33rd instead of 32nd or 18th to get into that Junior World Cup team. So every single training I had a plan. What am I improving on? What's the focus here? Where's the growth coming from? And even if it was a really difficult training session where it just wasn't quite coming together, where's the resilience? Where's the grit? How do I just keep going and enjoy the challenge, even when it's really hard? So um that resulted in junior World Cup selection six months later. So that was just an absolute thrill. And I think that was the first time that all the pieces of the puzzle came together of I can do this. And it's actually all in my control here at this point in time. I I knew I had talent, but I also now knew that I had grit, and when it got hard, I could step up. And so I had an underlying belief of God, I'm really good at doing hard things. And that served me really well for the rest of my career.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

I find that really interesting that you said, you know, every training session I went into. We'll come back to this idea of having a plan when we talk a bit more about the linkages with investing. But most people think of a plan as a really big thing, like a big long-term plan. You're saying, no, no, no. I had I had a plan for every training session. You might some others might call that an intention. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 12:12

A dot point. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, spot on.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

You you've quite deliberately called it a plan.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Yeah, it it was to me. And it was just another little piece of the puzzle. And I think, and we might touch on it later, I think adaptability is a really incredible and essential skill for an elite athlete or an elite performer or high performer, which a lot of your clients are. Um so I think being adaptable within that plan, for me, it might have been a dot point. But if we weren't working on that dot point, that um intention, then how do I adapt quickly and change? Where's the growth coming from now? Or if I'm having a tough training session and it's just not quite coming together from for me. How do I stay present? How do I stay in the moment? How do I stay focused and still have a clear intention and still have growth come out of that training? But it looks a little differently to the initial plan going in.

Aden 13:02

Aaron Powell, I really liked how you mentioned as well, like focusing on what you can control. And there's a really another really good parallel to investing in that. But so many times people are worried about external noises or things that you can't actually directly impact. Like you said, the Queensland six players selected from that. You can't directly impact that. But what you could control was getting really fit because you knew they needed a fit squad. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

And proving that those selections wrong. Yeah. Or at least giving cause to question whether those six selections were right. Because you're feeding more performance data into the system.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yep. Yeah, absolutely.

Aden 13:38

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, if we look at that from like what we see with investing, a lot of the time there we'll get questions all the time around, oh, what about if the market does this or what if this happens? And they're things very much outside people's control. And it's really making sure that, yeah, we want to make sure we can protect you against these things. But what are the things we know that you can control? And a lot of it is how you actually react to things because it's a decision, one, to panic, but also then to react and say, no, actually, let's think about this. How can I react to that and make sure that it's actually serving me?

SPEAKER_00 14:10

It's a really good point. And often the people I work with, I have a zoom in or zoom out mentality. So zoom in, how do I be really present in the moment right now and just bring my best self to this moment, but also zoom out and how do I see the bigger picture? How do I trust the bigger picture? How do I see the process to get to the outcome rather than spend so much time obsessive over a potential or uncontrollable outcome that I'm actually losing all the time leading up to that and then not getting the outcome that I want as a result of that? Or deer in headlights doing nothing in an investment sense and not taking the opportunity that's right in front of me in the moment.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

So you're a um a successful athlete. I think you played over 150 games for the hockey roof.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

I'll take that, 101, but let's go to the 100s.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Oh, 101 is pretty good. Um So and I'm interested. You so you you won a Commonwealth Games gold medal, and the Commonwealth

Commonwealth Gold And Olympic Comeback

SPEAKER_03 15:07

Games is on now. Pretty cool. Yeah. Great competition. What meant more to you, winning the Commonwealth Games gold medal or being uh an Olympian in London?

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Very interesting question. Um both of them I nearly didn't get to. So can I do a quick story time on that? Because it's a really tough one to compare. Um leading into Com Games, the World Cup was before that, a couple of months before that, and actually missed World Cup selection. And after the World Cup team was selected, there was a two-week period before the team went away. And then the Commonwealth Games team was getting picked while the team was away. So all the selectors, majority of the team, all the coaches away at World Cup. So I had two weeks to basically show again, I'm good at doing hard things. When it gets tough, when I'm not selected, I bounce back, I'm resilient, I'm reliable, I'm here, I'm perform at my best even when it's tough. So I think still that first training session after the World Cup selection, when I wasn't selected, is one of my proudest moments as a hockey roo. And to everyone else, it was an innocuous training. No one would remember it but me. But I was so proud of the way that I trained the absolute house down and a time where it was expected that you pull back and it's a bit uncomfortable because 80% of the team are celebrating World Cup and then 20% are sort of underperforming during that week, usually, because um disappointed, yeah, which is really understandable. So I think in those moments when you're character-led rather than ego-led, and you really prioritise that. And one of my values is daring. So in that moment, how am I daring? How am I playful? How do I bring that in a moment where it's tough and it's hard and I feel sad? I want to go to a World Cup. So I think for Com Games, um, getting that selection because of that really challenging time and enjoying the challenge and being up for it. Um I was really proud of that. And it was wonderful to stand on that podium. You know, we played in 41 degree heat, they wouldn't allow it now, and max humidity. We're losing three kilos a game of fluid, even though we're drinking, hydrating, ice vests all game. So it was a really challenging tournament, playing at one o'clock in the day often. So that meant a lot to me, and having that medal, I have so many wonderful memories of that tournament. Um, my first village environment with other sports and other athletes that were just incredible. The Olympics, as you know, uh had a major collarbone incident six and a half weeks out where I just crushed my collarbone and we were in London playing on the Olympic turf. The team hadn't been picked yet, and um went for in for surgery the next day, five and a half hours surgery. Uh that six or seven weeks was spent on a bike with a little dumbbell, one kilo dumbbell in my hand. So to get to the Olympics too was um a really, a real unknown for the majority of that time. And I was lucky I was in form and they picked me if I got that green light before the first game, which I think.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Do you think many of your peers would have done that work if they were in the same circumstances?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

I think so.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

I think you just you're so locked in at that moment. You've worked so hard for so long to get to the Olympics.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

But I'm And there's no second prize, is there? Speci especially for a sport like hockey, where it's not like you can console yourself saying, Oh well, I didn't quite make it, but geez, I made a lot of money.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Yep. No.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

It's definitely not that you're sort of in povoland for the whole time. It's a calling. It's not exactly it's a passion.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

You're doing doing it for the love of the game. And I mean, you're travelling the world with some of your best mates, so that is wonderful, but yeah, you're definitely not doing it for the money. But yeah, to get that green light the day before the Olympics and go and get there and um have that experience was wonderful. The outcome was really disappointing at the time coming fifth. Um even though it was in alignment with our world ranking, we played beyond that and just didn't score one goal, so missed the finals.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Yeah, amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a parallel there for investing too, you know. Sometimes I look at what Aidan and his colleagues do, I guess what we do at Capital Partners. And sometimes I think there's more psychology than there is actually investing knowledge. Like we yes, we have a lot of investing knowledge, and I think anyone who walks through the doors of our office knows that. Like it's a ticket to the game almost that we know our tax and we know our structuring and we know our how trusts work and all of those sorts of things. But I'm hearing your journey of the struggle to get there. And it's so true for our client. I mean, it's not all, but some of our clients have struggled and really worked so hard professionally during their lifetimes. And then when they get to the end, we actually have to give them a nudge to actually enjoy the moment. To really, really go and enjoy the moment. And what I'm hearing from you is, okay, you didn't perform in London as a team. Yes. But there's still a lot of gratitude for having having got there and having enjoyed the experience.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Yeah, absolutely. And I completely agree with you in that most of your clients are high performers and they're excellent at what they do. And when you put yourself out there and you perform at a high level, there are big challenges that come with that along the way. And you have to learn to deal with that and perform through it and learn learn through those moments. So there's definitely a a parallel between the two. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

I think some of our clients would consider themselves high performers, but I don't think a lot would. I think they're very humble, by and large. But that's not taking away from the assumption you're making, because the things that underlie your assumption are that they've worked incredibly hard, they're smart and compassionate, they care about others, they, you know, haven't climbed the ladder and ridden roughshod every over everyone. They're entitled they they've earned the success that they've had, you know, professionally and and financially and in their own private businesses and so on. But I'm I'm really interested in I I find

Humility Values And Self Worth

SPEAKER_03 21:17

most of our clients tell their stories very humbly, just as you are today. You know, some incredibly successful business stories and the like. I'm really interested in your take on the idea of humility and performance holding hands.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

I think the challenges that you go through give you the humility. So like we spoke about before, every higher performer has usually written a lot of challenges to get to that point. And I think you can either be in an ego mindset or a character mindset during that time, and you can all of us switch between the two. But I think if you're character driven, if you really know yourself as a person, you know your values, you know your character. You know what you stand for. I think the humility walks hand in hand with the high performance when you get to that upper level. If you're external to internal, so ego-minded rather than internal to external, character-minded, you bring your best self to whatever you're doing. If you're in that ego mindset where you always need the external validation, you always need the limelight, you always need something outside of you to feel like a high performer or to feel a sense of self-worth, then at times the humility is a few layers down and it's not showing you you're wearing armour all the time, you're wearing a facade that you show others. And um, the amount, the depth of conversation I get to have in my job, the humility is still there for those people. It's just covered by a bit of armour. And once you actually get to the depth, they they're usually the ones that just cry and just let it all out and are genuinely humble, good people underneath it. But for one way or another, they've had to put this armour on and it comes across as a lack of humility.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

Got to dig through the hubris.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

So interesting.

Aden 23:03

I think that aligns, and I know you do this with lots of people you work with about being really clear on your values. And one of the first discussions we have with people when they come to initially meet with us is actually understanding like what's important to you, what are your values, because that then dictates what you want to do with your life and what motivates your decision making. And I think if you were externally minded, you might be thinking, well, I need to buy the place down south because Sally down the road and her family have a place down there, rather than taking it back to, okay, well, what's important for my little unit and me and why is that important? I think it's such an important starting point for both your financial decisions, but also just broader life as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah, I I love the holistic approach that Capital Partners takes in that way. It's not just about the investment, it's holistically and wholeheartedly about the person behind the investing and the family behind that person and really getting to know who are they and why do they do what they do and why do they want what they want. And I think it's such a crucial part of being your best self. And um in both of our professions, we have the privilege of opening opening that door and letting them see their best selves and how to align with it.

Retiring Young And New Identity

Aden 24:11

So I would like to move on a little bit. And you professional sport is very unique in the sense that you ha you know going into it, you have a fine art career. So you almost know you've got a retirement coming at one point, and then you've got to make a decision saying, well, what next? What does this look like? Um, because it's going to be very different to what you did in all the years preceding. So what did that look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Yeah, it's a really good question. Um it was a tough decision for me because I actually retired when I was 25 years old. So when I told people, they genuinely thought I was joking. So when I was telling my teammates. A few people have said that without the dollar bills attached. Oops. Yeah. But they genuinely genuinely thought I was joking because I was so young and I was in the absolute prime of my career. But for me, um meeting John was a really big turning point in that you're living the life, you're traveling the world with a lot of your best mates, but I wanted to be home spending a lot more time with him. So that was a big lever that was pulled. Um I also wanted a family fairly young and a career before I had a family. So that was probably a value that my parents and particularly my mum has always really encouraged that sense of family. And so um I wanted to have a family younger and then and have a legal career before that. And then my health um was a big decision in that. I was I didn't know it at the time, but I think I definitely had Hodgkin's lymphoma when I retired. Even when I was at the Olympics, um I was absolutely exhausted. So I think that was probably an underlying reason as well to retire. Um, in that my collarbone was only 50% healed at that point in time from the surgery um nine months later. And it was a pretty wild ride uh getting to the Olympics and then still pretty exhausted.

SPEAKER_03 26:04

If not physically, emotionally. Both mentally would have just been extraordinary.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yes, it was. And I was really looking forward to that next step too. Like dipping my toe in the corporate world and what does that look like and what does that feel like, and how does that compare to being an elite athlete? And I was really looking forward to that almost normality of life.

Aden 26:24

And then so so how did you actually navigate that transition? So things stop.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yes.

Aden 26:29

You're used to being known as Fiona Ryan, the Olympian.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yeah.

Aden 26:33

And then you've almost got to not shed your identity, but you've got to forge that again. So how did you go about doing that?

SPEAKER_00 26:38

I was really fortunate. I know a lot of elite athletes struggle struggle with that transition, but I was really fortunate in that I wanted it. I was ready for it. And hockey was never my identity, it was never who I was. It was just something that I did and that what I was quite good at. But it was never the person that I was. And I I think I was really fortunate in that I knew myself as a person and was able to bring that to whatever I did. So at the start of the Olympic year, uh Herbert Smith Rehills actually had offered me a full-time contract, which I deferred for a year, and then I was meant to take it up part-time, but walked into the partner's office and said, Can we flick that switch and go full-time? And he was really happy to do that. So I think that transitioned with the hockey roos were going to a bit more day training, and it didn't feel right to me to sort of be sitting in an office all day, then get up and train and then back sitting in an office all day. I didn't think that was the right thing for my body and for the team. And I like to be able to give all of myself to whatever I'm doing, and it didn't make sense in that way. So a lot of stars aligned for me to move on, and I was I was really happy to do that.

SPEAKER_03 27:46

Aaron Ross Powell So law Especially at a place like Herbert Smith Free Hills, one of the top-tier law firms, they would claim the top-tier law thing. Um that can be an extraordinarily challenging environment to work in as well, intellectually challenging, extraordinarily hardworking, very competitive. How did you how did you find that? Like, did you just thrive on that? Or did that just sort of come naturally to you? Or is that not your experience?

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Aaron Powell I think I'd had the ultimate apprenticeship in terms of elite sport. Um and what I actually found in that transition was elite sport at that point in time. I think it's moved on now, but you were never good enough. It was always what do you need to do better? What what can you do better? You're not good enough at this. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

You you trained under a sp particular coach too. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Yeah, I did. Whose entire trademark is you're not good enough. Like what have what else have you got for me? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Yeah. Yeah. So that was and it was a really big transition when I went to the legal career and went to Herbert Smith Free Hills. I had a partner that was incredibly supportive. And not to say that I was perfect or, you know, I got it all right, but it was incredibly supportive when I got it all right and when I got it all wrong and everything in between. And it was actually just a brilliant feeling to for someone to say, you're doing really well, and it's all going, you know, great. And I hadn't actually had that messaging for quite a number of years. And so that was very much appreciated.

Great Feedback And Supportive Leadership

unknown 29:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 29:20

So we do these cultural check-ins or career check-ins with our team, and um feedback is one of seven dimensions that you know will result in someone being really happy or not at work. And that's so interesting because feedback is often cited as I need more feedback. I need more feedback. Particularly for younger people, you you'd have gone into Free Hills as an associate. So it's useful for our listeners who are still in the workplace, but also those with grandchildren. You know, feedback is important. And holding it in a positive frame rather than you've done the wrong thing is is your message. That's an incredibly powerful motivator for a young person.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Yeah, definitely. I I think the biggest feedback that my boss at the time, Frank Poeta, that he gave me was his door was always open in a literal and figurative sense, in that I could go into his office as the most junior person in that team, and no matter what he was doing, he would turn around and say, come in, take a seat. And that just felt I felt a huge sense of valued and worth and that he would give me that time, even though he had so many other things to do that were far more important than sitting with me. But just the feedback of you're welcome here and you're valued and you're here to learn and you're worth my time was um given through his actions, not his words.

Aden 30:48

So nice. So I wouldn't mind touching a little bit on mindset and if you're comfortable talking a little bit about some of the health events that you've

Cancer Journeys And Forward Focus

Aden 30:55

been through with the family house. Because I from mind to say, that's shaped a lot of how you approach mindset and you help people think about that. But would you mind telling us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yeah, sure. So when I retired from the hockey ruse, I was 25 and had started my corporate career at um HSF. And three months in I started to feel really unwell and textbook Hodgkin's lymphoma. I had lumps in my neck, bed sweats, just complete exhaustion, just ticked every box. Um, and as you know, the nail in the coffin was went for a run with John and he used to be able to have a lot of banter about how I was in third gear and he was in fifth. And he overtook me and and um reached the top of the hill before me, and that was when I was like, right, I'm booking a doctor's appointment, we're done here. But yeah, that was a huge change in lifestyle again, in that I was 26 when I got diagnosed. I was young, I was fit, I was healthy, I was eating well, I was, you know, doing all the right things, and it came out of the blue. So I went through six months of gruelling chemotherapy because I was so young. Um, I was told before my first chemo session that I'd lose all of my hair. And that was really confronting. Went wig shopping with mum and I just walked out. And I I know wigs are brilliant, they help so many people, but for me, I felt like an imposter in my own body. It just wasn't something for me. So I used a lot of visualization during that time. I'm a big believer of beliefs become your thoughts, your thoughts become your feelings, and your feelings become your end actions. And so I just worked really hard on that belief of I don't I don't want to feel like a cancer patient, I don't want to look like a cancer patient. Do I need to lose all my hair? No, I'm not gonna lose all of my hair. And so every hour I lay on the couch at home during treatment, sorry, every day for an hour and just visualised my scalp gripping onto every hair follicle and every hair follicle burrowing into that scalp and holding on. Um and that was just a daily ritual that I did uh for at least an hour, and I think it can't have done any harm. And if anything, I I only lost, I still lost 50 or 60% of my hair. But if you saw me in the street, I didn't look like a cancer patient. And that was really important to me that I could go about my everyday life um as as I wanted to, and then just go in for treatment once a fortnight. So a lot of learnings during that time, that's one of them, a lot of self-reflection and a lot of growth came out of it. Yeah, and same with John. Um, as you know, I I got into remission and we tag team, so he I just encouraged him to go for a blood test because he hadn't had one for five or six years, and it came back low iron. And for a um Caucasian man who eats meat, which he did at the time, um, that was a really unusual test result. Um, and then when he went in for a colonoscopy because of that, um, I looked into his eyes and I saw something that I'd never seen before, and that was just deep fear, and sort of wrote it down to um worried about the medical procedure, which wasn't really like him, and then went to pick him up with a three-year-old and 18-month-old in tow, and was told to drop the kids off and come back, and we found out over a period of a month or two that he had stage four bowel cancer that had spread to his liver, his gallbladder, his lymph nodes. So that was a really big journey for us as a family of four at the time. Um, mindset was very important in that every single day I'd go into hospital, check where he's at, let out any emotion. But then how are we forward-focused here? How are we keeping his brain knowing that he will live through this against the odds and that there is a future ahead of him and us and our family together? Um, so we would write list after list after list what's ten things you love about each family member, what's ten things you want to do with them after this, where are ten places you want on holiday, what are ten cars you want to drive, which was you know painstakingly helpful. Um, but just always keeping that forward focused vision to rewrite his subconscious thought when he's getting the medical view, which is very valid of the odds are slim, but telling his brain there is a huge future ahead for you. Um and then also what are you mentally digesting during the time when you're in a lot of pain? Um, we watched a lot of comedies, uh, comedians on stage just to have a laugh and to keep things light. I'd read books to him that were inspiring, motivational, happy stories, and just making sure for as much of that time as we could, we kept his brain in a joyful light state and forward-focused.

Aden 35:48

I like how you've said there as well. A lot of times we can't control what happens to us, but you can control how you react to them. And it sounds like through both your journey and John's, that was such an important part of the process around being really deliberate and intentional around how you were going to think about moving forward. And do you do you think having got through those periods, that was like one of the key drivers?

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's spot on. It's really, really important part of how you perceive everyday life. And every single second of every day we have a choice. Do we choose to control the controllables or do we choose to focus on things that are out of our control and that we can't change? And whichever direction we take changes our actions and what we do in that moment. Do we play it safe? Do we pull back? Do we go and have an unhelpful conversation? Or do we do something that serves us, that serves the people we work around, that serves our family, um, that's purposeful. So every moment of every day we're making the choices, and is it one that serves us or one that limits us?

SPEAKER_03 36:55

It's an extraordinary story. The health the two health chapters, yours and John's, and we obviously lived John's from a very short distance away, and it was quite challenging hearing it again, to be honest. Um But it's an extraordinary it is an extraordinary story about positivity and and outlook and focus and where you spend your mental energy. So well done.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 37:30

Well done for for doing that for him.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Thank you, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

Today we've we've got him and he's healthy and and and a wonderful human being.

Emotional Composure In Market Crises

SPEAKER_03 37:39

And it really feels as though we're trivially trivialising, I feel as though it's almost trivial, um to draw a parallel between some of the stuff you've talked about there back to the subject matter of the podcast, which is what are the similarities between the character traits of successful people and successful um investors. So my apologies. I I do feel as though I'm trivialising that.

SPEAKER_04 38:05

Yeah, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

But it is really really so interesting, you know, the whole idea that people who are successful in just about any form of life, any any area of life are purposeful. They're acting on some sort of plan. You know, it's just so compelling, isn't it? That you know, if you we see this, people come in to our office and they want to talk about oh, what's happening in you know the Middle East and what's happening here and what's happening there. And honestly, we don't know. Similarly, if people you're coaching, whether they're elite athletes, are focused on, oh yeah, the coach just doesn't like me. I'm never going to get selected, then you're never gonna get selected, right? So it's that whole idea of being self self-motivated rather than self-focused and having a having a plan. And we've said many times on this podcast just about all the successful people we work with are acting on a plan. It's never random. They're always acting on a plan.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Yeah, spot on.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

Um they also have the the the emotional composure to be able to process really bad news weekly. Like if you'd fallen in a heap for John, that would have been of no good to him. If if Janet had fallen in a heap for you, that would have been no good for you, right? So having the emotional composure to look at a situation, the investment parallel, really poor investment conditions, which will happen once every eight to ten years. Do you panic? Or do you say, okay, what are the controllables? Have I dealt with have I dealt adequately with all of the controllables? Yes, I probably have. Then okay, I'm gonna have to take a long-term view.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

And that's that's the way it works.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

And like you said, it's expected. Like it will happen at some point in time. You know, again, like you said, every eight to ten years. So you know it's there. And it's not saying that you can plan every little step of how you go about it, but you can stick to the controllables. It's a repeated action that's happened, you know, every eight to ten years. So you know it happens, you know that we come out the other side of it, and often how that looks.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

That's head over heart, though, for you, because um in you can intellectualize that.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:24

And you can create an intellectual framework and a plan for all of that. But when you actually feel it, that's a different thing. That's where the that's where it really gets gritty. And you've got to hold on tight and say, okay, intellectually I know this I knew this was possible. Now that it's arrived, it's really, really hard. Now what? And it's how you respond in the crisis that becomes critical to the outcome you get.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

And also finding a way to release that emotion, too. It's like, you know, like you said, I don't want to trivial trivialise it, but going into the hospital and John's just had major surgery and on on heavy pain killers release the emotion. That's okay. And then come back to the plan. So it same as you know when those investment events happen. It's okay to say, oh, this feels uncomfortable and I feel sad about this, or this hurts. But what's the plan? What's the process that we follow when this happens? And to have trust in that process that we know it, we know it, we believe in it, we're adaptable within it where we need to be, but we also can confidently predict how we come out the other side of it. And that feels good.

SPEAKER_03 41:37

So true.

Fear Of Failure And Ego Traps

Aden 41:38

I'd love to chat a little bit about some of the work that you do now and what's led to that. I know when you so you came and did a session with our team, I think, last year. And one of the parts I loved is how you you help people deal with this idea of the feel-a-fear of failure or rejection, which is just would be rampant across all athletes, all high performers. And if we put our investment lens on it, people are always fearful of what's the worst, the doom say, what's gonna happen, how can I protect that? So, how do you go about having conversations with people to help them work through that?

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Yeah, and you're right, it's really common in elite sport, and and I assume also in in the investment landscape.

SPEAKER_03 42:13

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: I would say for every positively focused podcast like this, there's about 30 that are telling you the world's gonna come to an end and you should act in the way they are telling you you should act. You're very commercially motivated, of course. But yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Yeah, so in a sporting sense, I mean there's lots of causes for it, but the main one is usually being in that ego mindset. So really caring deeply too much weight on what other people think and believe, and external expectation, expectation of outcome, expectation of others. So bringing the athletes back to that character mindset versus the ego mindset. So what's in your control, internal to external, what are my values, what are my character traits, what do I stand for? And how do I bring that version of me into the actions and how I perform? Because that's within my control. And tying in a sense of self-worth to those values and actions and sorry, values and character. Whereas if we're in that fear of failure mindset where we're really externally driven, we're in that ego space, then we always need a lot of external feedback just to feel a sense of worth because we're putting so much weight on external value, external um opinion and outcomes. So we do a lot of um character work, values, um, linking beliefs, thoughts, feelings, actions, like I said earlier. So if I'm daring and I have an underlying belief of I'm daring, I'm good at doing hard things, my thoughts are then I love a challenge. I like it when things get a bit tough because I know that I can stand up in that time. My feelings for a hard training or a hard game or a big match are always a bit of nerves. That's normal. I care about it, but I'm also excited, I'm also determined, I'm energized. This is what I play for, this is what I want. And my end actions then are proactive. I'm taking the game on. I'm being daring in a way that I'm breaking through lines. And in acting in that way, I then build confidence, which feeds that underlying belief of I'm really good at doing hard things. I'm daring. If I'm in that ego mindset, I've got that fear of failure. My underlying belief might be I'm not sure I'm good enough in those big moments because I haven't had all this external validation and feedback to tell me right then and there. So my thoughts are then, what if I stuff up? What if I don't get this right? What if I make a mistake? My feelings are then high nerves, high anxiety, almost not wanting the moment.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

Frozen.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

Frozen. Well, that's the action, the end action is frozen, reactive. And then the confidence diminishes because of that, which again feeds that underlying belief.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

That's so interesting. Sounds a lot like the four C's, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Does it?

SPEAKER_03 44:54

Everyone's in search of confidence. But confidence is actually a process. So the first is you've got to make a commitment to do something different. The second is you've actually got to find the courage to act on that commitment. And it's only once you're acting on the commitment that you're going to build any capability. And it's when you demonstrate capability that the world tells you you're good at things. And it's the world telling you you're good at things that gives you the confidence to do some more. So it's the same cycle of using different words. It's fascinating. So many young people we work with are looking in search of confidence. And the problem is that actually lacking commitment and courage. And if you find the commitment and the courage, which is the belief and the you know, yeah, that's that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Yeah.

Aden 45:42

It's mentioned a few times as well, like the the proving to yourself that you can do hard things. And I sort of think of it because that's something that I'd like to think through as well, is there's almost beauty in the struggle. Do you find that that's the hardest step to get people to into terms of the actual committing to doing the hard things and then flowing through from there?

SPEAKER_00 46:01

Yes, absolutely. Um it absolutely is, and it needs almost a pack mentality if that core belief isn't there. So if you don't have that core belief and the proof, the evidence that builds the confidence of I'm really good at doing hard things, I love those moments because that's when I actually step up and I'm consistent and I'm reliable.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

Huge competitive advantage.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Huge competitive advantage. But you almost need the PAC mentality to maintain and drive elite standards so that anything below that sticks out like a sore thumb. So you have to be pushed up and you have to maintain and drive the standards. Um, otherwise you're going to drop off and not be in that squad anymore. So it's a power of the connection between a playing group, a leadership group, and a coaching staff, and the three all working together to maintain and drive the standards so that people can see the actions and sit get the evidence to then feel the confidence of, oh, I am actually quite good at this.

SPEAKER_03 46:59

Got another little parallel. Go for it. You know, an investor client of ours who will arrive and just say, Look, um, I don't trust myself.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

I'm really good at a bunch of stuff, but this the stakes are too high for me now. I don't trust myself to do this work. They find an advisor who takes them through a process and sets them on a course that's logical. Intellectually it makes sense to them. And they say, Yep, okay, I feel as though I can trust this person. But then that's backed up by all of the infrastructure and support that comes from what we as a firm provide. You know, the whole the whole shooting match. I've never thought about it in that way, but the parallel's huge in terms of the confidence that comes in isolation. None of those things work. The advisor alone is a one-man band or a one-person, you know, orchestra.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

But if you've got the entire orchestra sitting behind you, then you can create a beautiful symphony, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Yeah, spot on.

SPEAKER_03 48:08

So interesting.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Yeah, it is. And you do need every one of those components on the same level in terms of maintaining and driving the standards to build the confidence and trust. So if we have a young playing group who are quite motivated, but then a leadership group who are having ten beers the night before and going out for hungry jacks together after the game.

SPEAKER_03 48:27

Especially if the kids see it.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Kids are seeing it, and so that's the standard that's being set, and then the coaching staff are turning a blind eye. If you have the playing majority of the playing group sort of doing the standards but the other two aren't, or if you only have the leadership group and they're on a pedestal and then their younger athletes in the team are feeling a disconnect, and so they're not wanting to align with the standards. Or if the coaching staff are not prepared and don't have the drills and the training environment to really drive the standards, then none of it works. So it has to be every component really aligned in that messaging and and in their actions.

SPEAKER_03 49:04

So

Self Awareness And Choosing Values

SPEAKER_03 49:05

good.

Aden 49:05

So where do you get people to start with? So we might have some listeners out there who might be ambitious around they want to achieve such and such, or they would like to get better at this, or they would like to help someone. And quite often it's really hard for people to start starting or ripping the band-aid can be difficult. So how do you get people to start or start thinking about it?

SPEAKER_00 49:22

The starting point is self-awareness. So watch, like reflect on your own actions. And we often say, like, look at yourself from the stands or from the finishing line, whatever you want of a race. And when do I act in a way that serves me? And why? What was I feeling at that time? What was I believing and thinking? Why did my actions end up that way? When did I act did I act in a way where I was like, oh, that wasn't me at my best. That didn't feel good. What was I actually feeling? And what was the belief and thought? Was it shame? Was it jealousy? Why? And just unpacking through your actions, they tell you so much about what's going on in your head. They tell you everything you need to know. So having the self self-awareness around sitting back just for five minutes a day, that felt really good. I was in flow mode, it just was so natural. Or, oof, that felt harsh and uncomfortable, but not in a good way. Why did I act in that way? What was underneath it in my head? And that self-awareness piece just links that chain for you. So I think using your actions, but then also driving your beliefs and thoughts. Write down, you can chuck in Chat GPT or you know, back in our day Google or whatever, you can chuck it in, give me 50 values and just circle three or four, or go into capital partners if you're already a client and you already do that process. You already do it. And what jumps at you when I'm at my best, what three or four words describe me, or if you're not able to do that, some people find that difficult. How would my best friend describe me at my best? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

I know the thing about values is they're actually really focused. Because we we often ask clients to pick three or four words. And by the time we get to the fourth word, we're actually looping back to the first three. So the the the the the story. So you can I can you pick my words. Um authenticity, leadership, love, and adventure are my my values. But those words mean something comp those same words would mean completely something else to someone else. So it's the story that sits behind the values that really matter. So adventure for me is just my life. Like I see the time, but this is this for me as an adventure. I get excited by the possibility of getting in here because there's a bit of nerves. Like you sort of think, well, this is going to be challenging. Um I always think no one's gonna want to listen to us. Wow, why would they bother? Um, but really getting clear on the values story just is such a powerful start to everything, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Absolutely. So I think your actions speak, and that's a reactive part, but the proactive part is defining those values and coming up with the three or four words that feel really good to you. That's me at my best, and I know the stories behind that, like you said, and I know why that feels good. Yeah. And then creating a belief from them. So for me, I'm daring, I'm playful, I'm loving. And then what thoughts flow from each of those? When I'm in a daring state, what am I thinking? What are every thought that's going through my head? I love a challenge. I love it when things get a little bit hard. I love stepping out of my comfort zone. It feels uncomfortable and I feel nervous, but I really like how that makes me feel during and after it. And then what's the actual feeling? Excited, determined, energized, alive. And what are my end actions because of that? I grow a business, um, push out of my comfort zone, feel proud of that. So every single value, just map it out. Beliefs, thoughts, feelings, actions. Nice. And then how do those actions build your confidence to reinstate that belief?

SPEAKER_03 52:52

And may I have one last question?

Ambition After Achievement

SPEAKER_03 52:54

I am fascinated by the idea of ambition. Um because as a as a student of retirement economics and retirement psychology, um I'm always asking my qu myself the question, you know, what does ambition look like for someone who's retiring? So you've achieved so much. And it would be easy to think you've achieved so much that there's nothing left. How do you think about ambition today?

SPEAKER_00 53:24

That's a really good question. I I think ambition and success are similar. And I think happiness is the outcome of success, and success is when our values align with our actions. So ambition is a really interesting concept, but I think it's mainly when you follow a passion, you follow a purpose, when your actions are aligned to your values. So I don't think that needs to stop at any point in your life. I don't think you retire and all of that falls off a cliff. I think throughout your whole life until the day you pass, um that ambition should be strong in every facet of your life. You should be doing what you feel passionate about. You should be aligning your actions to your values as often as you can. And we're all human, we all fall away from that. We all fall into ego mindset at times.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

Indeed.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

But coming back to when do my actions align with my values and what are my values? And when I'm doing things that I feel passionately about in that way, ambition just naturally flows. So that never has to stop.

unknown 54:30

Beautiful.

Building Mumsley For Mothers

Aden 54:31

On that ambition and things that you're passionate about, why don't you tell us a little bit about Mumsley and what that is and how that's evolved?

SPEAKER_00 54:38

I'd love to. Um Mumsley evolved through really through a number of ways. Umfuku was getting really, really busy. And why not add to it? Get more busy. Um I wanted something on the side that wasn't a direct trade of time and money. So um something on the side that could just sit there is something I felt really passionately about, passionately about, but also something that just genuinely helped people at a time where I felt they needed help. So I think in that first year of motherhood, um, there's a lot of resources for the baby, but there's not much for the mum. I think when the mum's in a good headspace, when the mum feels calm and confident in her ability as a mother, then everyone around her benefits, um, including herself. So Mumsley is a bit like a mental day spar. Um, it's a an app that we created a year and a bit ago now, and it's all around helping the mum to feel healthy, happy, and the best version of herself.

Aden 55:38

And how how how did you actually go about thinking and doing that? You've got so much going on in life. But if you think back of you loving to do hard things, do you think that was one of the things that pushed you to go and say, why not add another thing into the mixture?

SPEAKER_00 55:52

Definitely. I love a challenge. Like I genuinely love it. Um this is going off on a tangent a little bit, but someone asked me this week about my family, so my three brothers and and me growing up, and they said, What are the levels of competitiveness of each of you? And it really made me think in that I could never actually compete with them growing up. I was the youngest. I was I hate to say it, but I was a female. They're all stronger and bigger at that point in time. Um, and so I could never compete with them. So I'd say to Steve, who's the closest in age to me, I'd say, grab a hockey stick and bull and try and get around me ten times. And it would be like someone had pushed fast forward. I couldn't even move my stick by the time he was around the other side of me. I genuinely couldn't. And so for me, it wasn't winning and losing. It was I love the challenge, like go do it again, and I'll see if I can move my stick. And so I think from a young age, I had that love of a challenge and it manifests in so many different ways. And I think I agree with you. I think Mumsley was just another way of that manifesting in that I I wanted the challenge and I enjoy being challenged. And why not do something that could potentially help a lot of people? And even though it was hard, it was really enjoyable creating it.

SPEAKER_03 57:02

We'll make sure the links to Mumsley go in the show notes so that people can spread it far and wide.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

Thank you. Much appreciated.

Success Leaves Subtle Clues

Aden 57:09

Um so that's probably all that we have time for today. But I will close by saying uh a phrase that you often say, Dave, which is that success leaves subtle clues. So I think it was really important to go through some of the framework, some of the thinking, some of the work that you help people with, but you've also experienced in your life, because I think everyone's always looking for a silver bullet, but quite often there's there's a framework, there's a process, there's a mindset that needs to sit behind something. And I think it's been nice to look at what are some of the successful traits that people have in a sporting career or a professional life, and how can that actually play out in a financial or investment landscape because success does leave subtle clues. Fiona, thank you so much for joining us. David, thank you for joining me as well.

SPEAKER_03 57:51

It's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 57:52

Absolute pleasure.

Aden 57:53

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Purposeful Investor Podcast. Make sure that you share it with a friend, someone in your network who you think would benefit from having a listen. Both David Andrew and myself, Aidan Wilkins, are authorised representatives of Capital Partners Consulting Proprietary Limited, and we operate under the Australian Financial Services Licence 227148.