Everyone Is...with Jennifer Coronado
The intent of this show is to engage with all types of people and build an understanding that anyone who has any kind of success has achieved that success because they are creative thinkers. So whether you are an artist, a cook, a bottle washer, or an award-winning journalist, everyone has something to contribute to the human conversation.
Everyone Is...with Jennifer Coronado
Eddie Baba: Goals not Plans
Eddie Baba's life journey has been a unique ride. His story unfolds from his early life experience as an Iranian refugee to his long-term path to becoming a law partner; Eddie offers up his life experience, which evolved based not on plans but on goals. Eddie's candid revelations about identity, cultural adaptation, and the power of embracing one's heritage and sexuality are extremely uplifting.
As we traverse the landscape of Eddie's life, we uncover the rich tapestry of his unique academic pursuits that meld science, art history, the law, and the fascinating career transitions that follow. His story emphasizes the importance of creativity and adaptability in life's journeys. Eddie's pragmatic yet goal-oriented approach to his profession reveals the myriad ways success can manifest.
www.slightlyprod.com
It's a funny thing. I never really planned to be where I am. I just did what I liked and I focused hard on what I was doing at the moment rather than having this grand plan, because every time I've had this very big plan. It doesn't really work that way. My name is Eddie Baba and I'm a patent attorney.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to Everyone Is. I am your host, jennifer Coronado. The intent of this show is to engage with all types of people and build an understanding that anyone who has any kind of success has achieved that success because they are a creative thinker. So, whether you are an artist or a cook or an award-winning journalist, everyone has something to contribute to the human conversation. And now, as they say on with the show, welcome to Everyone Is. I am talking to a friend of mine who's been a friend of mine for going over 30 years, which is a long time. I know you were like why do you want to talk to me? Because you have a really interesting story and I wonder if you could talk about that journey, because it was with your mother and your siblings.
Speaker 1:I was born about a month after my father passed away, so it was just my mom, me and my three siblings. And in 79, the revolution started. My brother was 15, going on 16, and I was about five, and so it was a real big focus for my mom to get him out of the country so he doesn't get pulled into the revolution. So middle of the night she just decided we're going to leave and go to Greece and file for a political asylum and come to the US, because at that point my mom's sister was living here in the US. And here we are I have a five-year-old, a 15-year-old. My mom, my sisters stayed behind to kind of sell off anything that they could sell off, and then they met us in Greece about a month later. We were in Greece for about a year until we got approval to come to the US under political asylum.
Speaker 1:It was a really rough time. We came right around the time the hostages were taken in the embassy in Iran, and to come to the US as a refugee from a country that was not at that time seen as very friendly to the US was not the easiest thing in the world. One of the main reasons we came was. You know, I grew up Christian and we loved Iran. Iran was great. There's a lot of Assyrian people that live in Iran and the revolution was the Islamic Revolution and it was taking it from a really secular country to a very overly religious country that was not friendly to not just Christians but Zoroastrians, hindi, anybody who was not Muslim, and it just was a really rough time. So a lot of people left and even a lot of Muslims left that didn't want to be living under an Islamic state.
Speaker 2:Where did your family relocate after Greece?
Speaker 1:Yeah well, Central Valley, Central Valley of California, Very conservative farming town, Turlock, just south of like, in between Sacramento and Fresno, A small town of 30,000 people, Not a lot of people, Very conservative, very just farming town, not a lot of exposure to people outside of the people around them. And I look back and it was a pretty diverse area because there was a lot of Hispanic, there was a lot of Armenian, Portuguese. Everyone came to the US at that time. It was a big influx of people. So it really was a variety of people. But some reason, like Iranians, were just new to that area and it took a while. And I think over the next 10 years, throughout the 80s, the population grew, More and more people left Iran and more and more people gathered into Turlock. So it definitely got better over the next 10 years. But when we first arrived in 1980, there weren't a lot of families like us.
Speaker 1:I was five or six At that point. After living in Greece for a year, I had learned how to speak Greek pretty fluently. My brother was in high school and he pretty much told me don't tell anyone you're from Iran, just tell them you're from Greece, you speak Greek, because it's going to be a lot easier for you. You tell a five-year-old going to school don't tell them what you are, tell them something else. Is it great, it sticks with you for a very long time. So you're closeting that portion of yourself and then it turns out I'm gay. But then you have another closet you have to form. So you end up very, you know, isolated and learning to compartmentalize very early on wasn't easy. And there's a lot of others you know, Assyrians, people from around the area, and it was okay. But still I never really talked about it. I never really talked about it with anyone until I went to college.
Speaker 2:So when I met you in college, we knew you were Assyrian. You seemed comfortable at that point. But was that the like you were saying? Was that the jumping off point where you were finally like all right, this is who I am?
Speaker 1:culturally, yeah, and it kind of happened around the same time I came out. Freshman year in college, I finally came out and told people I was gay and at the same time I was like and I'm also from Iran and I'm a Syrian, and for some reason that was less of a problem and I was surrounded by people all my friends that were just so accepting, so warm, that realized like, oh, it's not an issue and, if anything, it makes me different and unique and everyone is different and unique in their ways. And it was easy at that point, it was great, it was the best environment to be in.
Speaker 2:It's interesting that you talk about the compartmentalization, because as an individual, you are very specific about how you approach things, and we're sitting in your office right now, surrounded by Star Wars toys, but walls are full of post-it notes that are very specifically color-coded and very specifically focused on how you want to approach things.
Speaker 1:It's a Japanese method of keeping tasks in order, called a Kanban board, and everything is color-coded in post-its and you move them from box to box as tasks kind of get completed. Organization gives me comfort. Compartmentalizing, putting things in boxes, keeping things neat and tidy in a physical space as well as a mental space, for sure give me comfort and give me a way to control a situation. Now there's compartmentalization where you know in a positive way is great. Compartmentalization in a negative way is tough, like bubbling up emotions. You know it's in a positive way is great. Compartmentalization in a negative way is tough, like bubbling up emotions, hiding yourself. Those things are negative and I luckily, over 30 years I've gotten better at not doing that. And the compartmentalizing and cleaning, keeping things tidy in a physical space or where it's positive, is the key.
Speaker 2:So when we were in college, you studied science and art history. Why science and why art history? Why were those things of most interest to you?
Speaker 1:The science. It's twofold One. It was just incredibly interesting to me, was just easy for me to pick up. And the second part of it was we came to the US with zero money. I grew up very poor, and in order to advance in life I had to have money. I grew up where my mom was like, if you're not a lawyer, doctor, engineer in Iran, you're just a failure. And it was pushed upon me that, like you know, my dad was a chemical engineer and so I had to be that too and I had to get my PhD. It only made sense. Anything short of that was a failure. And so, and science, I actually did like it. It wasn't like I was pushed into it. I really, really, really enjoyed it and so I did it. It was easy.
Speaker 1:I started off with just regular biological sciences and quickly made it on to molecular genetics and that's what I studied in undergrad.
Speaker 1:And then the art history was just another thing that was so interesting to me.
Speaker 1:It was just history in the context of art and how society moves around, and it was one of those things that I just I really enjoyed the art history classes and I just in undergrad you know you have to take all these courses in all the various areas of your electives, and I kept picking the art history classes as I was going through, just because I thought they were interesting in each category the art history classes as I was going through, just because I thought they were interesting in each category. And two years in I realized, wow, I've like fulfilled most of the requirements for getting a bachelor's of art in art history. And so I just continued it, thinking like well, I'm already here doing my bachelor's of science in genetic engineering, let me just get it for art history as well. It felt like a really good balance. That was the most important thing for me. I really enjoyed the science and that challenged one part of my brain and the art history was just helped and challenged the other part of the brain.
Speaker 2:When you were in college, you didn't really talk a lot about what you wanted to do. You talk about things that you do every day or things you had to study, but you never really talked about like, here are the things that I want to do. And you had this path in your head about PhD, which I don't recall you articulating that that much. But then you went, you graduated, you got your two degrees and then you were at Stanford and what were you studying there?
Speaker 1:I was in the PhD program to get my PhD in genetics. It's a funny thing. I never really planned to be where I am. I just did what I liked and I focused hard on what I was doing at the moment rather than having this grand plan, because every time I've had this very big plan. It doesn't really work that way.
Speaker 2:Explain that to me, give me an example.
Speaker 1:Explain that to me. Give me an example From when I was a kid. We were supposed to be in Iran. Well, that plan didn't work. We had to come here. We were in Turlock. We didn't have money Anytime. You had this grand plan of 10, 15 years. It was just hard.
Speaker 1:So I learned very early on it was more goal-oriented than having a specific plan. So it was a goal, a goal of I enjoy science, I want to have a career in science. Let me just do what I'm doing at the moment really well and let it lead to the way it's going to go. And I let things just lead one after another, based on what interested me at the moment, where things went. Actually, when I was started off college I was going to be a doctor and then quickly I realized no, I'm not going to work because I couldn't even stand being in an emergency room. I was so grossed out by everything. And then I found genetic molecular genetics was like wow, the lab work is so cool, it's so interesting, and I quickly switched to that so that made more sense. So that's kind of like that's what I mean Like I started off with a goal and having some form of science and then letting kind of as my interests evolved, moving towards it.
Speaker 2:You let it breathe yeah.
Speaker 1:And rather than sticking with a particular plan whether or not it worked or not, but that was the plan I'm not going to change from this plan. That's where I found it didn't work Like you got to, you got to ad lib, I think, being goal oriented and, I guess, being creative in that goal. You always talk about creativity being important, but knowing that it's not a singular line, it weaves and being open to experiences and being creative in those experiences and how you respond to those experiences, that's the key. I mean, if you want to talk about creativity and that and being goal oriented rather than plan oriented, I just kind of went with the flow.
Speaker 2:Which is funny, because you don't appear like a flow. I'm not a flow person.
Speaker 1:I pivoted in ways that to me don't seem like pivots. But other people are like what are you doing? But to me it didn't feel like such a big pivot.
Speaker 2:Are you similar to your siblings in that way, or are they planners?
Speaker 1:No, they are planners. They are planners, they don't diverge from the plan and I think because I was so young and we were forced to kind of ad lib, forced to leave Iran, come to the US, so there's like a 10, 12 and 13 year gap between me and my other siblings, so they were all out of the house by the time. I was like eight years old and I was just me and my other siblings, so they were all out of the house by the time. I was like eight years old and I was just me and my mom and I just had to kind of ad lib to a certain extent and that was okay and you kind of learn strength in that. So have a goal, but be open to edits and changes.
Speaker 2:So Stanford PhD you're approaching the PhD program and you pivot and you get your master's and then you decide, oh, I'm going to go to law school. Where did that come from?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was in my PhD program and kind of not jiving here I was. I really enjoyed it, but then I didn't really see myself becoming a professor. That didn't do it for me and then just doing the research. While I enjoyed it, I couldn't see myself in a whole life of it.
Speaker 1:And then the genetics department at Stanford is right above the medical school, and so there was a medical school cafe right underneath that. We would always go to lunch and I went down there and there was this poster that said what to do with your PhD, a panel discussion. So I'm like, well, I'll go to that. I went to it and there was a bunch of different kind of people post-science careers, like there was a person who worked in the corporate world, there was a person who worked in licensing and there was a patent attorney, and so they all talked about alternative paths for people who are in science and being. You know me, I was like, oh, that sounds really cool, really interesting. I want to learn more about patent law.
Speaker 1:And so, while still continuing grad school, I took a paralegal course at Berkeley to get my paralegal certificate because I wanted to see whether I liked it and it was like had nothing to do with factual law patent law but I wanted to see what it was and then I took a few courses at Stanford Law School trying to understand what it. And that's what helped them the most, because I realized, wow, this is really neat, it's a new application of science. So I talked to my advisor and was like I'm not going to continue with my PhD. She was great in helping me at least get a master's degree from Stanford and I applied for law school and ended up going to law school at Syracuse because they gave me a pretty hefty scholarship to go there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. One of the things you've talked to me about before is when you went to law school, it changed your brain and how you approach things and how you think about things. So how did that change your thought processes? What was there?
Speaker 1:It gives you a level of critical thinking and question asking that I just hadn't experienced before, and looking at one, spotting issues and then doing the critical analysis from both angles. That's what you learn in law school. I mean, you can take a bunch of classes, but it really boils down to those two things issue spotting and the critical analysis from both sides. And I think that was a new level of thinking for me, because in science you have a theory, you have a question and you do research trying to answer it. Either you answer it in a positive or negative way. It's a singular straight path. Lawyering is a little different. You have facts in front of you, you identify an issue and then you try to figure it out. So it's kind of like backwards forwards, backwards, forwards and understanding. And I feel like that, in addition to scientific thinking, was combining those two was really fascinating for me, and which is what I do today.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm a patent attorney. I help inventors get patents on their inventions, mostly in biotech, chemical and medical device inventions. They do the research, they have an invention, or they identify something they've answered and they come to me and they're like well, this is great, we've identified this, and I work with them trying to understand okay, how does this translate into a invention and how does it translate into, like a commercial embodiment, so what? You've identified this link between this protein and this receptor. What does that mean? Oh well, it helps reduce cancer cell growth.
Speaker 1:So once somebody has identified a link between those two things, it can lead on to a whole series of inventions. Like you can screen for a compound and see does that compound block that communication and therefore blocking the cancer cell growth. So that's a very simplified one example. But like trying to find a situation like that where an inventor has found something and I work with them trying to pull out what the invention is, trying to find out how does this help you start a company or a licensee, how they can take that and commercialize it. So it's that they've done the linear thinking. I come in after the fact. Look at it, spot issues, try to develop a story all the way around that item.
Speaker 2:So do you think that the improvisation stuff that you had to do as a kid helped you be a scientist but also see outside of the science? Because scientists you know people who are very focused in their careers can get very in the weeds and they can't look up and see anything else. Do you think that helped you? In addition, Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was. That was exactly it. I'm still in science. I may not be doing the science, but I'm still heavily involved in science. I work with scientists every day, researchers and just to go back to that, a little bit like when I told my mother I wasn't going to continue my PhD and I was going to become a lawyer, she was just not too thrilled about that. She was just like, why would you just change? Again? Going back to my siblings and my mom you know they're very singular path and have a plan and don't deviate from that plan. And for me it was more like the goal is to be in science, the goal is to be with scientists. Now, I don't want to do the research, but I do want to help researchers. If they've already done the research, I feel like I'm working with them. It's a different way of looking at it, rather than just the singular path and goal of like I'm going to be in science and that's it. Even if I don't like it, I'm going to still do it because that's the plan.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the path of like an immigrant mother, isn't it? You've gone through such an unstable period.
Speaker 1:You want stability, stability, stability for your children Right, and you know, a lot of my friends were like so your mom doesn't want you to be a lawyer. I, jen, I remember you were like my dad would love it if I would be. It's true, yeah, it's weird, isn't it? But it wasn't just that not being a lawyer, it's that like I had a plan in place. Why was I not sticking to that plan? I'm going to totally derail everything. I'm going to pick this new area. I'm going to backtrack. It's going to slow me down. Why not stick with the plan I already have? Well, but I am sticking to the goal. It's not the same plan. The path might be different, but I'm going to enjoy it more, and you know I do. I really enjoy my work. I really, really enjoy it. I don't know if I could say the same if I was doing like bench research.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally. You know. The moment I knew you became a lawyer is when you came home and we were in a parking garage and you looked at the thing on the wall where it says we're not responsible for the stolen items in your vehicle and you said that's not a negotiated contract, so that's not valid. And I said okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what every law student they get that point.
Speaker 2:They get annoying. So you came out of law school. I mean, how do you go about finding a job as a lawyer?
Speaker 1:My career. There's a lot of people wanting what I know and at the time and you know this was 22 years ago there were not many people who had a law degree and a science background. So patent attorneys were highly coveted. Getting a job was not that difficult. The key was finding a place that I liked, that felt like it was a bunch of ex-scientists that are attorneys and that's kind of how I always saw myself. Not that I was an attorney first, I was a scientist. Not that I was an attorney first, I was a scientist first. That is now an attorney working with scientists. And I wanted to find a place that had that same kind of vibe, not a big law firm that is only focused on attorneys. So that's why I'm at. You know I've been at the same boutique firm since 2001. I'm a partner now. I've been at the same boutique firm since 2001. I'm a partner now. It's great. It's the same mentality, same vibe. Everyone is the same type of perspective on what they do and what they are.
Speaker 1:You went to a bigger firm for a little bit. I did and I quickly realized, yeah, this isn't for me. I went to a very large multinational firm with a lot of offices and a lot of people and realized, yeah, this isn't what I want to be. I want to be with other scientists.
Speaker 2:When it comes to, I mean, you got the law job, you went to the boutique firm, you went to the bigger firm, you went back. How do you become a partner?
Speaker 1:If you had told me in like undergrad, oh, you're going to be a partner at a law firm one day, I would have laughed there's no way, that's not me. I'm not that type of person. I had a very fixed image of what that type of person would be from movies. I was not going to be that person and it's just kind of one thing led to another. I became successful. I have very good clients, I'm good at what I do. My client base grew significantly and then I just continued on with what I was just in front of me. The option to become a partner came up and I became a partner and I became an equity partner and co-owner of the firm and I manage people. I would have never thought I'd be in this place at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, didn't you go to the Hague at one point?
Speaker 1:I did so. I work a lot with European patent attorneys, and so in Europe there's a process called opposition practice, so once a patent issues, somebody can come out and say, no, that shouldn't have issued, it's invalid. And so I've had several patents for my clients where I've had to go to the Hague and argue against that, and in Europe in Munich. So the European Patent Office is headquartered in Munich and in the Hague, and so, depending on what cases you get, go to different organizations.
Speaker 2:So now you're successful.
Speaker 1:You have a wonderful husband, you have beautiful homes, you're a successful attorney. So what do you do now? I know there's no plan, but what are the things that you really like that really feed you? For the longest time we lived in San Francisco and we're very focused on an urban life and during COVID that kind of really changed Working from home, being remote and really enjoying not going into the office physically but being at home and so we ended up getting a place up in wine country up here in Sonoma County, and now it's like I work.
Speaker 1:But there's so much gardening to do, there's so much outdoors work to do. There's fun things that blow my mom's brain, like that. I'm canning tomatoes and making tomato paste and she just kind of looks at me like we left Iran so you didn't have to do this. Why are you doing this? You can buy all the stuff in the store. Why are you in God's name making tomato paste? But it's it's a whole new challenge. It's like this new thing for me to to kind of explore that I feel like I've conquered what I do with with my career, my patent law not that I want to stop doing it. I love it, I'm really enjoying it. But the new challenge for me is kind of this whole lifestyle of being a homesteader, gardening, just being outdoors with nature. It's a whole different thing than in the urban kind of city 10 years ago. If you would have said you're going to move to the country, I would again laugh in your face.
Speaker 2:If you could give anybody advice. Let's just say there's a young kid, there's a young any young gay kid from the Middle East. What advice would you give them? Oh, boy.
Speaker 1:I, you know it's. The world is so in one. In some ways it's better, a lot better. In some ways it's not that great right now. What's what's better is that the access to information and access to find your people that we have now is great. Go out, find people who are kind of similar, who have experienced similar things, and reach out. Stay goal oriented, not plan oriented, and just this is cheesy, but just know it always gets better, it just does and surround yourself with people who love you and who accept you in exactly the way you are.
Speaker 1:That's what did it for me. Going to college and meeting my core group of friends freshman year you included. There was maybe like what 10 of us, 10, 12 of us that are still my close friends today. If it wasn't for those people, I would. I don't know what would happen. I would not be where I am. There's a level of comfort I achieved by having those people around me that allowed me to be who I am, and without them I couldn't have done it. Well, I love you and thank you for doing this with me today.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it. Well, I love you and thank you for doing this with me today. I appreciate it. Thank you, and I am Jen Coronado. Everyone Is is a slightly disappointed productions production Dropping every other Thursday. Wherever podcasts are available, make sure to rate and review, and maybe even like and subscribe. Thank you for listening.
