Vicki Dobbs Beck-When Magic Happens

Some careers read like a straight line. This one is a map of brave detours, timely breakthroughs, and the stubborn belief that story and technology belong together. Vicki Dobbs Beck—VP of Immersive Content at Lucasfilm and ILM—to unpack how a kid from Kirkland, Washington, rode a love of books and big ideas to help launch ILMxLAB and push real-time storytelling into the mainstream.

We trace the arc from a palm-tree dream of Stanford to an unlikely first win at ILM: drafting the company’s first business plan by interviewing senior creatives and stitching their wisdom into direction. From there, the conversation travels through Lucasfilm’s early experiments in location-based entertainment and the visionary but early Lucasfilm Learning, where a mystery about disappearing ducks introduced project-based, no-single-answer learning—an immersive idea before VR could carry it.  

When real-time rendering finally hit cinematic quality, the door opened for ILMxLAB. Vicki breaks down the creative-operational engine behind XR: align high-fidelity media with interactivity and give audiences agency without sacrificing story.  

If you’re building a creative career, rethinking education, or chasing the edge of immersive tech, this conversation will change how you plan and how you dare. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves story and innovation, and leave a review.  

www.slightlyprod.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Opening And Core Theme: Passion
• 0:27 Meet Host And Guest
• 1:31 Growing Up In Kirkland’s Tech Shift
• 4:08 Family In Medicine And Early Loss
• 6:36 Early Interests And Love Of Writing
• 8:40 Stanford Dreams And Proving Doubters Wrong
• 12:05 Finding Direction: IR To CIA Fantasies
• 13:52 Business School, Creative Pull, And Bad Fit Consulting
• 16:58 Breaking Into ILM And The Marathon Interview
• 20:16 Writing ILM’s First Business Plan
• 22:10 Lucasfilm’s Entrepreneurial Experiments
• 23:47 Lucasfilm Learning: Story, Tech, And Education
• 26:10 Why The School Market Failed
• 27:29 Transmedia Pitches And Nature Company IP
• 29:12 Consulting For Disney And IP Lessons
• 31:28 Returning To ILM And Strategy Roles
• 33:09 Real-Time Breakthroughs And Founding ILMxLAB
• 35:31 What It Takes: Resilience, Courage, Passion
• 38:15 Personal Creativity, Burnout, And Retirement Plans
• 40:05 Defining Creativity Beyond The Arts
• 42:26 Credits And Subscribe Reminder

Transcript

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 0:00

I think that passion is absolutely core to being successful in the creative space. You have to be passionate about what you do and what you aspire to do. And when you think about it, all of this creative work is really about people. And very specifically, it's about passionate people. And that's, I think, when when great things happen, when magic happens.

Jen Coronado: 0:27

Hi, welcome to everyone is. I'm your host, Jennifer Coronado. The intent of this show is to engage with all kinds of people and build the understanding that anyone who has any kind of success is successful because they're a creative thinker. So whether you're an artist or a cook or an award-winning journalist, everyone has something to contribute to the human conversation. Because everyone just is. I have known Vicki Dobbsbeck for a long time. She is currently the VP of Immersive Content for Lucasfilm and Industrial Line Magic, and has held various strategic planning roles with the company over the years, but I'm less interested in the jobs she's held over the years and more interested in how she processes information because I love Vicky's brain. And I want to talk about what led her to what she's doing today. And I'm going to ask you a very initial provocative question. Are you ready? I'm ready. Where did you grow up?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 1:23

I grew up in Kirkland, Washington, which was not well known when I grew up there, but it became the home of Costco.

Jen Coronado: 1:32

We talk a lot about Silicon Valley, but Seattle was also a hub for technical innovation right around that area. So what was it starting there when you were growing up there? Or was that even a thought? But like what was the main industry?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 1:45

Kirkland was actually an old town. And it was kind of a very basic middle class town. But and actually we had a drive-in theater about uh a mile from where I grew up. And that drive-in theater got torn down, and that's where the first Microsoft offices were. And then it just expanded from there. They expanded um into other buildings nearby, and then into Bellevue, and then eventually into Redmond. And of course, now they're global. Um, but that was happening when I was growing up. So it started that um that transition to a much more tech focus, I think probably while I was in high school, I would say. And then, you know, it became also the home, as I said, of Costco, as well as um, I think it was cost cellular. So for a pretty small town, it had a lot of very what became very big companies.

Jen Coronado: 2:49

Why do you think that is? What do what do you think about that environment made it ripe for that?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 2:54

I really have no idea other than the fact that it probably wasn't very expensive. Um, it wasn't very expensive real estate. It wasn't as expensive as, for example, Bellevue, which was next door, or you know, downtown Seattle. Um, it was a nice little town. And so I think people may have just, you know, decided that's where they were gonna set up their offices as a result.

Jen Coronado: 3:19

Yeah. Isn't that interesting how that happened stands and look what grows out of it, you know?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 3:24

Exactly. I mean, I I went to a high school that was in a district that included Mercer Island and uh Bellevue, Newport. All of these are very, very um high-end, you know, areas. And um our high school was just sort of like I said, it was very, very middle class. Um, but it was interesting to be in a district that had such a diverse um sort of uh really like socio um economic diversity.

Jen Coronado: 4:04

And what and what did your parents do when you were growing up?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 4:08

My my um parents were both in in medicine. Um my dad started out as uh a pediatrician and um my mom was a nurse, and then when I was in high school, I think, or just going into college, my dad decided that he wanted to make a big change, and so he he literally went um back into residency and became a cardiac anesthesiologist, and um that that kind of specialization has sort of since disappeared. People, you know, who are anesthesiologists now generally do lots of different kinds, but my dad very specifically did open heart surgery. Wow. And then my mom um got her master's in public health, so she had a lot of um, she wasn't just a practicing nurse, but she was also an administrator. Of course, I didn't go anywhere near medicine, um, nor did my siblings.

Jen Coronado: 5:11

Why not?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 5:13

Actually, it's a really, really hard um profession. And I hate the sight of blood or um or knives or anything like that. So it was it was a pretty easy decision. Well, tell me about your siblings too. How many, how many do you have? Um, well, I have a a brother um who's living, and then I had a sister who passed away um almost 30 years ago.

Jen Coronado: 5:42

Yeah.

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 5:43

Um and that was tough because you know, when you have two parents who are in the medical profession and then you lose one of your children, um, you know, she died from complications of childbirth. That's a really, really tough thing to to live with when you've dedicated your whole life to saving others and then you know, one of your own uh you're not able to save.

Jen Coronado: 6:09

Yeah, I know you're very close to your sister, so I'm very sorry about that. Yeah, what like what were the things for you for you did you don't like knives, you don't like blood. So no serial killing or medicine for you. So what like what were the things for you as a kid that were super interesting to you? Because you're such an intelligent and uh a pursuer of knowledge. What like what were the things that that really fascinated you?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 6:36

You know, I loved doing a lot of different things. I did ice skating, I did gymnastics, I did ballet, I did quite a bit of ballet. And I also loved to write. And so I would write creative stories and then I would hire a friend to do illustrations for me because I couldn't draw. Um and, you know, I really liked school. Actually, I was good in school and I I liked school, but um, I think my favorite class was English. Oh, yeah. What did you like about it? What appealed to you? I liked the writing and I liked the reading. Yeah um and I actually stayed in touch with my high school English teacher until he passed away, um which was probably 15 or so years ago now. But that was really interesting to stay in touch with somebody for probably 40 years.

Jen Coronado: 7:34

That's great. And I know that you you still on occasion write, but I wonder, Vicky, for you, like what were writers that were really influential to you?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 7:42

I think it was a combination of the writers and the genre that they wrote. Um, so I was a big C.S. Lewis fan. I've read all of his works, but I was initially captivated by Chronicles of Narnia. Yes. And I think I I heard them. Um, they were read to me uh for the first time, and then I've probably read all of them, you know, four or five times over the the many years. So that's kind of that's probably one of the most influential writers for me.

Jen Coronado: 8:18

I remember as a little kid, I I love I loved reading series. Like I read all the Nancy Drews, like every single of them, you know. But I agree with you, like the Chronicles of Narnia, like I would sit in my closet as a little kid and hope that some sort of wardrobe would open up and you'd end up, you know, in Narnia. So exactly. Oh boy, I dreamed I dreamt of that. Yeah. Turkish delight. What is it? I need it, you know. Yep. That kind of thing. So you went through high school, you were a good student, you um then where where from high school? What what happened after that?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 8:57

The irony is is uh so I went to Stanford, but um, I grew up in the Seattle area, and my both my parents went to University of Washington, and almost all the people I knew went to University of Washington. But when I was um younger, um I loved to watch college football with my dad. Now every once in a while I'd get to go to one of the games. Um but as a in that process, I had this huge crush on um Jim Plunkett, who was the uh he was the quarterback for um first Stanford team. And and and you know, so I would see like those those things they do at the um, you know, where they show this the campus, etc. And it had palm trees. And I was like, I really want to go to Stanford. And my dad said, well, if you want to go to Stanford, you've got to work really, really hard. And so I did. But I mean, uh the reason I chose Stanford was it had palm trees and Jim Plunkett, not necessarily that that's a very 18-year-old girl decision. Well, yeah, except I was like 12 at the time. Oh, wow.

Jen Coronado: 10:08

So you decided that early?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 10:10

Yeah. I hate it when people say I can't do something. And so I decided, you know, when I was 12 that I wanted to go to Stanford, and I went to my high school counselor, and he told me, I think you should, you know, set your sights somewhere else. No one from this high school gets into Stanford. And I just couldn't believe that he would say that to me. And the other irony is that year, three people from my class got into Stanford, um, which were we were probably some of the first kids to go to Stanford from our high school, but three in one year after, you know, the counselor trying to steer me away from that.

Jen Coronado: 10:53

Maybe he inspired all of them to go to Stanford because he said, no, no, nobody's gonna do that. Exactly. You can't do that.

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 10:58

Yeah. And and then I I I got to Stanford and I was pretty overwhelmed. I felt like I just wasn't as smart as everybody else. And the first thing that happened when I got there is, you know, I I met all these uh new people, several of whom are, you know, my lifelong friends now, but they had all come in with AP credits. And I never we didn't have we didn't have um AP programs at at high school. I didn't even know what they were. And so, you know, one of my really close friends who lived across the hall, you know, she came in, she was halfway through her freshman year uh giving her AP credits. It took me really my freshman year to kind of build up my confidence and believe that I could hold my own with uh all the students there. And I think that was a really that was a really pivotal moment.

Jen Coronado: 11:50

I want to go back to something you said earlier, which is I can't stand it when people tell me I can't do something. Why is that? Where does that come from?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 11:58

I really grew up believing that, you know, sort of where there's a will, there's a way, and that anything was possible. And so when people tell you can't do something, it's it's basically in direct conflict with that. That you know, the older I've gotten, obviously there are some things that are no longer possible or um or maybe never were, but I really believed when I was growing up that I could do anything if I put my mind to it.

Jen Coronado: 12:30

So funny you say that I have this tattoo on my arm and it says, I dream of things that uh never were, and to ask why not, which is you know, uh OG Bobby Kennedy quote, with uh uh drafting off a George Bernard Shaw quote. So it's it's great. You can't have things happen unless you believe in possibilities. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. You have to dream. Yeah. So you got you you built your confidence in in your in your freshman year. And what started to happen for you there after you felt like, oh, I finally belong in this place?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 13:05

I I think that, you know, one of the things that was really important is I made some very close friends who are still my friends today, um, my closest friends. And um I I didn't have a really good idea. I I majored in international relations. Um well, actually, I should go back. So I started my first idea was that I was gonna major in Egyptology. Okay, where did that come from, baby? Well, because I loved, I loved reading, you know, like like Indiana Jones-like stories. I just for me, it was, you know, definitely the romantic dream of discovery and um exploration. My parents are like, no, we're not sending you to Stanford to become an archaeologist. Um, so my next idea was art history. Then it went English. And they're like, you know, why don't you choose something where you can actually get a job? They were really afraid that I was going to go to this very expensive school and not be able to get a job. So I ended up choosing an international relations because it's essentially a liberal arts degree. You know, it's a mix of history, political science, uh, language. And so, in effect, I didn't really have to make much of a decision because it was sort of a little bit of everything. Well, there was a moment when I was graduating um where I thought I wanted to be in the CIA. Again, this sort of romanticized like three days of the condor. You were gonna be an analyst? Yeah, I wanted to be an analyst, and then, you know, and then I wanted to be caught up in a three days of the condor stuff, you know, type um adventure. Yeah. Uh but I didn't do that. I got a job. And um, I kind of like explored a couple of different things. I started out in retail, I really didn't like that. I did some real estate securities, I didn't really like that. So I decided to go back to business school. And the main reason for going back to business school is I feel like it's sort of like you get one shot, like one get out of jail free card, I always call it, where you can make an industry switch. And because I didn't I didn't love business school. Um I actually did everything I could to sort of try to find other things to do while I was at business school, which was also at Stanford. So I took creative writing, um, I took some some more Italian. Um, you know, I kind of did what I had to do to get my MBA and then supplement it with more creative kinds of classes and activities. Uh, I did some theater and my undergraduate was much more foundational, pivotal than my MBA, except for the fact that by getting my MBA, I I was able to make a pretty radical career shift.

Jen Coronado: 16:11

Yeah, it opens doors for sure. But I hear I hear so much in like what you're talking about, Vicky. You you tried English, you tried art history, you tried other things, and then you go to your MBA and you're like, I'm doing Italian and I'm doing theater, and you feel like it feels like you're always supplementing yourself with something creative to like keep keep whatever your job target or your education target is going. Do you think that's an accurate assessment?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 16:34

I think it's very accurate. And what what happened at business school is um at that time it was almost everyone either went into investment banking or management consulting. And I had a bunch of close friends who were management consultants. You know, there there was the summer job, and all, you know, all the management consulting companies and investment banks came to campus to interview. I was interviewing with McKinsey, and when they interview you, they give you a you know spontaneous case that you're supposed to sort of talk them through how you would approach it. They gave me a case about an auto manufacturer, and it was very specifically about carburetors, and I didn't even know what a carburetor was or what it did, and I didn't really care for cars. So I started to try to talk my way through this, and I finally, it was so miserable. I s I just finally said, you know, I think I should just save both of us um the uh frustration of trying to uh you know sort of bullshit my way through this. And and so I left the interview early. And then my next interview was with Bain and Company, and that's where I had a lot of really close friends. And and in fact, the person who interviewed me was someone that I knew quite well. And he said, I gotta be honest with you. I you really strike me as a very creative person and a person that gravitates toward things that are much more creative. Um my advice to you is to get a summer job that's somewhere in the creative space. And if after that job, that summer, you still feel convinced that management consulting is what you want to do, then we can talk about a full-time job after you graduate. It was the absolute best advice I ever got because I did I did end up working for San Francisco Ballet for the summer after actually volunteering to work at ILM for free and being turned down.

Jen Coronado: 19:01

Let me just tell you really quickly. I creative people always do that. They always do that. They're like, let me give this away for free. So continue. Yeah, but then they turn you down. And you're like, wait, I'm offering my free services.

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 19:17

I I did feel honestly at San Francisco Ballet, I did decide that I didn't want to work for in nonprofit arts management. Um, there's just so many different groups that um are always vying for control and lots of you know different constituencies. So it was, but that said, I loved being around dancers. I loved being um in a in a performance sort of setting. I loved the um creative aspects. And so it was it was kind of a rough, rough road to get there, but it was it was definitely well all worth it.

Jen Coronado: 19:58

Yeah. And the thing uh non-for-profits are uh at least as far as arts, you talk about the constituencies, it's actually so political because you're you're constantly kind of hustling to keep the organization going, and you don't really and your revenue plan is please let me ask all these people for money for money to keep us going. Exactly. Which makes it harder to balance as opposed to having a business plan that you're targeting and you're gonna have revenue, you know. Yep. So you offered to work for free at ILM, but you ultimately ended up working there with a paid gig. What did that look like? How did that come about?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 20:32

You know, I stayed in touch with them periodically through my second year in business school, and I it looked like I was gonna graduate without a job, um, which was terrifying. But about a week and a half or so before I was gonna graduate, they called and said, Would you like to interview? We have a marketing assistant position. And I said, Sure. I, you know, I would obviously love to. And um they said, then then your interview will be on this day at this time. And I said, Um, I really, really want to be there. Is there any other time we can do that? Because um I have a a group class project presentation that I have to give. And they said, No, we're really sorry. It's sort of then or none. And so I talked to my group and they're like, you gotta do it. And so they basically, they basically covered for me, um, did the presentation uh between just the three of them. And I had to figure out how to get up to ILM because I was down in Palo Alto, I didn't have a car or anything. It was I think it was like took me like two and a half or three hours. I mean, because I had to take buses and you know everything. So I get there. Keep in mind that this is a very, very entry-level position. And I get there and they didn't, they didn't really tell me it didn't say ILM or industrial light magic on the door. I was sort of wandering around a little bit because I wasn't quite sure if I was in the right place. But when I finally get there in San Rafael, uh there were like 15 people um interviewing me at once, including the president, all of the senior executives. And and it and I was just like, oh my gosh. I mean, of course, I just got, you know, was graduating from business school. I'm like, can you imagine how much this is costing um uh in time for them to be all interviewing me at once? Uh it is something that's a little bit a part of the um ILM culture, though I will say I've seen it over, you know, all these years, is that there is they like want a kind of consensus point of view before bringing someone in. And so the, you know, you often see lots of people interviewing one person.

Jen Coronado: 23:02

Yeah, I refer to it as the hippie mentality, like, hey man, we gotta all collaborate, you know? Yeah, that sort of DNA from the the origins of the company, right? Exactly. So you had 15 people interviewing you. How did that interview look?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 23:18

Like on top of everything else, a couple of other things were happening. First of all, they had uh one job, which I eventually discovered they had two people they really wanted to hire. Um, so they took the one job and split the salary in two, which was already low. Um, but the other thing that were a couple things that were happening is the then president of Lucasfilm, whose name was Doug Norby, he had decided that he thought that they needed some professional management in the uh organization, which I also thought was kind of funny because it's like I had just graduated from business school. It wasn't like I had a whole bunch of um expertise, but that that turned out to be helpful. And the second thing was this was at a time when investment banks were investing in Hollywood, and everybody thought it was well, it was terrible, actually. You know, these were not creative people who were trying to run very creative organizations, and most of those people had MBAs. So, on the one hand, you know, Doug Norby wanted people with professional management. On the other hand, I really didn't want to tell anybody that I had an MBA because it was just like the worst thing you could possibly say within a creative organization. So that was all kind of going on. So they were kind of curious about like, why do you want to do this? You know, why did you get your MBA, that sort of thing. And and what I had decided um after the disastrous management consulting episode the year before, that I wanted to work for a company whose product was inherently creative. That was my criteria. I didn't really set out to be in media and entertainment per se. I mean, I looked at, you know, um, you know, the arts, wine, fashion. I looked at a whole bunch of things. Yeah. But I just kind of my path eventually led to ILM.

Jen Coronado: 25:24

And you you got that job that was split in two where the salary was tiny tiny. And this is the secret about the film business that most people don't know. The people who get paid the most are Brad Pitt. And everyone else gets paid, you know, just a living wage.

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 25:39

So you don't you don't go into this business to make money. No, I mean a few people do, but um, but I always tell people like you you make different choices, and every choice has a price. And um I have loved, I've loved my career, but you know, I definitely it's not a get rich career.

Jen Coronado: 26:05

No, for sure. And I know, I know when you were you got into this role, they also they they were asking you to develop help develop a marketing plan and a business plan as a marketing assistant. So uh what and now Vicky has jumped all over and tried these different things, and it sounds like you're like, Well, I you can't tell me I can't do this. So how did you go about doing that?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 26:28

Well, this is where I do think like I have been throughout my whole career, I've been very opportunistic just trying to figure out a path forward. You know, so um my boss at the time, who was Rose Degnan, she asked me if I do anything about developing a marketing plan. And I said, Well, I I do because I just graduated from business school, but I don't really know anything about the industry. Do you have a business plan? And she kind of looks at me with, you know, sort of blankly, and I said, you know, something that just like summarizes who the competition is, you know, five years of financial projections, trends, you know, strategic initiatives, et cetera. Well, nothing, nothing existed. So I said, I'll tell you what, you tell me who to interview, and I will interview them and I will write a first draft of a business plan. And even if I'm a hundred percent wrong, at least it's something tangible for for people to respond to. So that's what I did. And um, so I apparently wrote the first official ILM business plan.

Jen Coronado: 27:36

How did you process doing that, Vicky? Like someone, you're you're basically a kid, you know what I mean? Um and you're like, I'll do this, fine. Like, where does uh that come from? Where does that small how does small town Vicky get there? You know?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 27:52

Well, one of the things I've learned over these many, many years is the way my mind works. And my mind is I'm a very big picture person, and I I like to understand how things fit together, but I also tend to live in the future. Like I'm always thinking like five or 10 years out. And that's both a strength and a weakness. Um, the weakness is is when you're, you know, when you're in like a management role or an operational role or something like that, it's hard for me to live in the present. And it's really necessary, um, I think to do a good job in in certain roles to be able to live in the present. So that was just an interesting learning about myself. But anyway, because I like to understand how they fit, things fit together. I like things to make sense. I like to have a sense of vision, like where we're trying to go, why we're trying to go there, is it worth going there? Um and so I just I by talking to, I don't remember how many people I talked to, but I I want to say it was probably eight to ten people. And you know, it it was an unbelievable opportunity when you think about it. Because I'm I'm talking to eight to ten of the uh most senior people at ILM and just learning from them, just sort of like absorbing all of this um knowledge that they had gained over many, many years, and then trying to to fit all the pieces together. So it's like I was very lucky.

Jen Coronado: 29:38

It's like you went from getting your MBA to getting your MFA. Because you know, you're talking to all these creative people. Yeah. Yeah. I know you bounced around within in the company. Can and you ended up um how did you drift between the different different companies within within the Lucasfilm organization?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 29:57

So so what happened is after I had Apparently, did the first ILM business plan. They decided to sort of pluck me out of ILM and drop me into all of these different areas of activity. The way that Lucasfilm at the time used to figure out like new business opportunities is they just started doing it. And then they were trying to figure out if it actually made sense. So I literally was kind of running around after all these little pockets of entrepreneurial activity to figure out whether they were sustainable. We did some really early, there was location-based entertainment that was using the um Evan Sutherland, you know, simulation platforms for entertainment. I mean, this would have been in like very early 90s. It was pretty technically advanced for that time period. Very. And so the location-based entertainment stuff that we were doing was super, super cool. It was way ahead of its time. Similarly, you know, the last stop on my journey to all these different little pockets of activity was Lucasfilm Learning. And Lucasfilm Learning was trying to do educational multimedia for the school market. I was not a, you know, not a technologist, not an educator. I had no experience. But I was completely taken with the vision and what they were trying to do. And it was really sort of living at that intersection of storytelling, interactivity, high-fidelity media, such that it was at the time, um, with a with an education lens. But it was really project-based learning and story was quite important there. So we did a a prototype that was called Paul Parkranger and the mystery of the disappearing ducks. See that title again? Paul Park Ranger and the Mystery of the Disappearing Ducks. Got it. Okay. But what was super cool about that is that the way this prototype came together is they worked with, they took a professional design team, obviously, on the Lucasfilm learning side, and partnered each of those team members with a high school student. And then together they were developing a prototype for middle grade kids. So the high school kids had just come through middle grade. They were the ones that decided that a mystery format was a good one. And they created the character of Paul Park Ranger. And so, you know, basically what happens is you this is back in the point and click era, too. Right, right. Macintosh point and click. So you go into Paul's cabin. Paul is gone. He has left to go solve some other environmental mysteries, and there's a message for you. You know, so you click on the recorder, and you know, he tells you that he needs your help because um the ducks are disappearing. Every year, fewer and fewer ducks are coming back. And why? Why? What is wrong? So, anyway, there was no, there was no right or wrong answer. It was the whole goal was critical thinking and creative problem solving. You're supposed to develop a theory for why this was happening and then support that theory with all of the information that was available in Paul's cabin. I just it it was it was absolutely a turning point in my career. I I became obsessed with the combination, you know, being able to bring these kinds of technologies together. But as has been the case in many times in my in my career, timing is everything, and that was not the right timing. Um we were about 30 years ahead of our time because what was just slightly. I mean, what was so interesting is the the the sort of interface of Paul's cabin and the way you clicked on things is like absolutely perfect for VR, right? You're now you're in the cabin, you can um literally access all this information dynamically, but it just made me think, you know, like none of that was possible back then.

Jen Coronado: 34:30

Well, I have to ask the question because I know Lucas Learning, you ended up having to to shutter it. How there's not a lot of money in schools. Is that is that something that was the problem?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 34:40

Yeah. That was the problem. And it was uh not only is there not a lot of money, but there is a tremendous amount of bureaucracy. Uh now I don't know if it's still the same today, but but back in like 90 to 92, if you got adopted, which was the only place there was money, um you had to do updates and be relevant for seven years. And if you think about how fast, you know, our understanding of the world changes, especially now, but even then, it was just really, really hard to compete. And and then you're working obviously with these um, you know, huge textbook publishers. So we we were working more in, I can't remember what they call it, but it it's it's the little pool of money that doesn't go to textbooks. And then on top of everything else, quite frankly, the the technology required to do these experiences was fairly complicated to set up. It was a computer-driven laser displayer. And so even though we managed to figure out how to get grants and other things to get the technology into the schools, uh, there often wasn't enough training or there was turnover. And so that equipment sat in closets. And um, yeah, it was really, really sad. But but one thing that was interesting about it, because as I said, I wasn't a technologist, I was an educator, etc. But I I was on the cusp of groundbreaking work. And as a result, I became an expert just by being in the right place at the right time.

Jen Coronado: 36:21

Yeah, sounds it sounds like you've had a ton of that. I mean, so so um looks learning, you had to you had to close it. And that's a terrible feeling, uh, particularly for people who are on the doing something really valuable because you're helping children as well, right? So what happened next for you? What was the next how did Vicky go, oh well, what do I do now? You know?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 36:46

Well, I was really, um, as I said, I was very, very interested in what is now called immersive entertainment, but it could have been called that then, you know, if if we had even known such was the term. I was really interested in the sort of the high-fidelity media coupled with storytelling and interactivity. I was also really intrigued with transmedia, so cross-platform storytelling. I put together a business proposal for an edutainment group. So it would have been cross-platform, but but the you know, the company is organized in verticals, just like Disney is. Yeah. And what I was proposing was this little sliver of horizontal. And it's really hard to do something that is, you know, literally at odds with the um organizational structure. So I tried that, uh, it it didn't go anywhere, but I actually pitched a similar kind of idea to the Nature Company, um, which was a specialty retailer. And I remember them, yeah. Yeah, the idea was to develop a world um and characters and stories that we would sort of introduce kids through comic book format. Um, but then we'd do a whole product line that that supported that. So, you know, some character-based product and world-based product and that kind of thing. And I had the chance to work with um probably one of the most innovative thinkers that I have met. He was definitely um one of the people that really, really inspired me. Unfortunately, again, timing is everything. Uh the, you know, the they call them big box stores or something, you know, the Home Depots, et cetera, yeah, were were just coming online and it really sort of crushed the specialty retail space. Eventually they went out of business. And um the the work that I was doing, you know, they they essentially shut all of that stuff down. And I um then did independent consulting, my biggest client being well, Disney Company.

Jen Coronado: 39:12

Well, let me ask you, independent consulting. What does that mean? What does that mean? And how do you like that there's a hustle that has to happen when you're an independent consultant, right?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 39:20

I there is, and and I it's not something that I loved. I'll tell you, there are there are pluses to being a consultant, which is it is easier to distance yourself from things that you don't believe. You know, like like the company's gonna do what the company's gonna do. You can try to guide them in a direction, but if they don't listen to you, then it's easier to, like I say, distance yourself as opposed to being in inside. And so thankfully, I got a big, big job, which was Disney.

Jen Coronado: 39:55

How do you do that? How do you get that big job?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 39:57

What's the what's the pitch? It was lucky. Um it's a little complicated, but when I left the nature company, I was able to take all the IP that we had developed with me. I I paid a nominal um sum in order to have it, but I owned all the IP, which was a um which was a concept called Teratopia, Tales of Teratopia. Um and it was an eco-fantasy adventure and it had characters and everything. So I actually somehow met someone at Disney who they were setting up an educational um publishing group, and they were potentially interested in acquiring Teratopia. And it got all the way up to senior executive level. And over the course of, I remember it was like close to Christmas, and I used to tell people, like, if they were interested in teratopia, I said, if you have any kids around that are between the ages of six and twelve, let them read this and see what they, you know, what they think. And the senior executives did that, and the kids that he shared it with loved it. I think it was ABC actually at the time. And Disney acquired ABC. That's what it was. And so Disney is like, we have plenty of IP, we don't need any new IP. And so, but because of that, that sort of pitching process, etc., I made the connections inside of ABC slash Disney. And then they decided when they were doing the educational publishing that they wanted to develop original IP that and so they brought me in as a consultant instead of acquiring Teratopia. Right. But it was uh and I did that for about two years, and what happened is what Disney Educational Publishing was trying to do was almost identical to what I had pitched at Lucasfilm, where it's this little sliver across a company that is organized in verticals. And I could see the not invented here, you know, like we don't want your creative, we're doing our own over here. And so I I saw the writing on the wall. I knew the same thing was gonna happen and that had happened at at Lucasfilm. And so I ended up um going back to ILM and taking a full-time job. And then, you know, I was doing all kinds of strategic initiatives, et cetera, uh, until I sort of landed in the immersive entertainment space.

Jen Coronado: 42:49

So, like I remember you were you were working on the CG side, you were working um planning there, and then you moved over to in what was the president's office at that time and working on strategy there. And then the idea of immersive came around. And suddenly I'm like, well, Vicki's over here, and now she's over here. Like she's shifted into a new spot. How did that shift happen? And were you like, wow, this, I feel like my life has led to this moment based on what you've explored? How'd that feel?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 43:21

I I did. I I will say that um I was talking to somebody the other day, um, a student, and I said, one thing that's interesting about my career is out of you know the the 34 years with um with Lucasfilm, only two of those jobs actually had job descriptions and titles. It was the first one, the marketing assistant, and it was the first one after I came back after having you know working with Disney, it was an operations manager. Every other role that I've had has been more um more opportunistic and where I saw an opportunity and um created and and a role was created in most cases specifically for me, meaning that if I was to move from point A to point B or role A to role B, it's not like they were gonna backfill that role because usually it's because whatever the problem that we were trying to address or the opportunity we were trying to explore, it either, you know, it either got resolved or it got underway, and then somebody else could could take it from there. So I had been waiting since the Lucasfilm Learning Days to the point where I thought that um, because in order to do the interactivity, it had to be real-time. And based on the work that was being done by the advanced development group, where they were combining the you know talent from the games group with the talent from ILM, they created real-time content at a quality level that hadn't been achievable before. And I was like, I was like, now this is the time, this is the time to do that. And so initially I was sort of supporting it almost more, almost in a more ad hoc way by virtue of my role, you know, leading strategic planning and initiatives. But um eventually, you know, we decided to go ahead and establish a division because we were so convinced of the compelling nature of what ADG had done that we felt that we could actually create a studio on top. And so I was I was um a core part of that uh launching the new division.

Jen Coronado: 45:46

I've seen you you you get interviewed constantly because of who you are and what you contribute to the industry. And again, going back to who you are, because that's such a valuable part of everything. Um, and you've been at South by Southwest, and I saw you were interviewed uh recently from educational facility in in Texas related to immersive stuff. What are the questions that you're like, I really want to answer this question, but nobody ever asks me that question?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 46:16

Well, sometimes people have actually asked that question of what I the way I respond is um is what do I think it takes to be successful in a um or or what has been required to be successful and to sort of chart the course that I have. I actually did a talk on this, you know, like what are the top 10, what's required in order to be successful? But what ultimately what I realized is it kind of gets down to three things in my mind, um, which are more personal qualities than they are anything to do with the industry itself. Yeah. And the first was resilience, being really like open to change, not being afraid of things that are unknown or unproven. In fact, quite the opposite. You need to sort of um embrace that. But in that kind of space, when you're pioneering, etc., it's always shifting, and you have to be extremely open to adapting your point of view as you learn more and as more becomes clear. So resilience, courage. I think that in the last 10 years, I I've had many, many, many sleepless nights. Um because we were trying to do things that had never been done before. That was at the that was kind of like the core foundational principle of ILMX Lab was to keep pushing the boundaries. But every time you push, you know, there are moments when you just have doubts and um you wonder if it's gonna work. And, you know, am I gonna be able to make this business make sense? Is this gonna be, you know, uh, is what we're creating going to have an audience, etc. Um, and then the last one is passion. And I think that passion is is is absolutely core to being successful in the creative space. You have to be passionate about what you do and what you aspire to do. And, you know, when you think about it, all of this creative work is really about people. And very specifically, it's about passionate people. And um, and that's I think when when great things happen, when magic happens. I think that passion is is is absolutely core to being successful in the creative space. You have to be passionate about what you do and what you aspire to do. And you know, when you think about it, all of this creative work is really about people. And very specifically, it's about passionate people. And um, and that's I think when when great things happen, when magic happens.

Jen Coronado: 49:25

I also think you have to for creative people have to do things for themselves in order to bring their full self to work, right? Yeah. What do you do for yourself? Not much.

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 49:38

Um, just kidding. But um, you know, you were talking about writing, and I used to write quite a lot. I really loved fiction writing. Um, I was especially, you know, interested in sort of the thriller slash suspense genre. And um ever since I started um helped start ILM Max Lab, I really haven't written at all. So that's been 10 years of not writing. That's what I used to do to inspire myself creatively. I think these days, um, well, of course, I'm I'm I'm going to be retiring soon. So I'm looking forward to getting back to some of um that, you know, creative writing and really just giving myself the time and the freedom to try stuff in so many ways. I feel like giving birth to ILMX Lab was like my child. You know, it was like um, and it it requires all of yourself, you know, and what little I had left, you know, obviously I, you know, I try to invest in my family and my husband and you know, doing things that um that keep me connected to the present and to everything that's important to me there. But um yeah, it's been an amazing and exhausting and inspiring all at once 10 years.

Jen Coronado: 51:14

Yeah, well, I look forward to you doing stuff for yourself because you are an impressive individual who gives so much to others that uh it's vacing time. So thank you. Um, my last question for you, and we ask this of a lot of people uh on the podcast, is what does creativity mean to you?

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 51:37

It's a good question because there are creative results from things that you do, you know, films, books, television, etc. But there's also creative thinking and creative problem solving. And these are things that it's it's it's really been very core to me. That's probably been my most um successful creative endeavors have been because of creatively thinking about what the opportunities are and figuring out how to put the pieces together. And um, you and I have talked about this. I I think that a lot of times people um are a little too narrow in the way that they um describe what it is to be creative. And I think all of us have the potential to be creative, and it doesn't necessarily mean you can draw or sing or write or all those things. It might just be how you approach problems and opportunities.

Jen Coronado: 52:42

Yeah. Great. Well, Vicki, thank you so much for spending time with us today. We know you're you're very busy, so we appreciate that.

Vicki Dobbs Beck: 52:50

Thank you. It's very fun. It's great to talk to you as always, as it always has been over the years.

Jen Coronado: 52:55

Oh, thanks, Vicky. Thank you for listening to Everyone Is. Everyone Is is produced and edited by Chris Hawkinson. Executive producer is Aaron Dusseau. Music by Doug Infinite. Our logo and graphic design is by Harrison Parker, and I'm Jen Coronado. Everyone Is is a slightly disappointed productions production dropping every other Thursday. So make sure to rate and review and like and subscribe. Thanks for listening.