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Fellowship Around the Table
The Book of Judges: Deborah & Barak w/ Eric Johnson (Part 3 of 9)
Ever wondered how leadership and faith intertwine in the face of overwhelming odds? Join us for a riveting exploration of Judges 4 on Fellowship Around the Table, where Eric Johnson unravels the dynamic interplay between Deborah, the wise prophetess and judge, and Barak, the hesitant military leader. Their journey from doubt to victory is packed with lessons on faith, courage, and the power of divine guidance.
Witness the dramatic encounter between Sisera, the defeated general, and Jael, whose opportunistic and bold actions change the course of history. What drives Jael to take such a drastic step?
Finally, feel the resonance of ancient victory songs as we dissect the Song of Deborah and Barak, examining its cultural significance and the call for unity it embodies. Learn about the critical importance of immediate action when called by God, the value of humility, and the role of flawed individuals in divine plans. This episode is a treasure trove of biblical insights and practical life lessons that encourage us to step up and let God work through us, imperfections and all.
You are listening to Fellowship Around the Table. Welcome back to Fellowship Around the Table, where we endeavor to have great conversations about life, faith and the Bible. This is Heath Casey and we are on week three of the Book of Judges with Eric Johnson Howdy. Last week we finished up with Shamgar and your great little anecdote there. Today we are going to jump into Judges 4.
Speaker 2:All right, let's do it. So, probably unsurprisingly, at this point, judges 4 starts off again with and the people of Israel again did what was evil in the sight of the Lord. After Ehud died, the Lord sold them into the hand of Jabin, king of Canaan, who reigned in Hazor. The commander of his army was Sisera, who lived in Hashareth Hagoyim, or something along those lines. That's right, it's pretty good. Then the people of Israel cried out to the Lord for help, for he had 900 chariots of iron and he oppressed the people of Israel cruelly for 20 years. Wow, a little side note about chariots of iron, by the way. I looked into this when I was going to teach the class. My understanding is the entire chariot was not made of iron, just like the wheels and the shaft for the wheels would have been made of iron, because otherwise it would be too heavy to pull around.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But the wheels are the most important part. You break the wheels, the chariot is not going anywhere.
Speaker 1:Right, but you're seeing some technology here, for sure.
Speaker 2:Definitely yeah, all right, so if you'll hop into four and five there, Okay, judges four.
Speaker 1:Picking up in verse four. Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lippidoth, was judging Israel at that time. She used to sit under the palm tree of Deborah, between Ramah and Bethel and the hill country of Ephraim, and the sons of Israel came up to her for judgment.
Speaker 2:That's kind of unusual, very. You wouldn't necessarily expect a woman to be the leader of the people at that time, but she was, she was. She was also both the judge and a prophetess, which is a cool combination of roles To some extent.
Speaker 2:I would just say that if you're a prophet or prophetess in this case, and God is speaking directly to you, it makes sense for you to also be a judge, because you can connect, you can get word directly from God as needed. I mean, the prophets couldn't necessarily do that on demand, but there was a sense where God might speak through you to determine the outcome of something. Samuel will have those same two rules. Later on, moses had the same two rules as Israel's first judge. So it's not an uncommon combination, but it is cool when it comes up. Yeah, so it's not an uncommon combination, but it is cool when it comes up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think the previous judges you saw them rule with might. And here you see what appears to be wisdom and character, because people are voluntarily coming to her to help make decisions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the other judges we've seen kind of come up and do the delivering first, yes, and then they rule the people after that. So you've had. You've had Othniel and Ehud, who have saved the Israelites from being invaded, and then the Israelites follow them afterwards. And here we have Deborah, whose authority is already established in advance of events that we're going to talk about here. Okay, so we have starting in six.
Speaker 2:She sent in someone, barack, the son of Abinoam, from Kedesh, naphtali, and said to him has not the Lord, god of Israel, commanded you Go, gather your men at Mount Tabor, taking 10,000 from the people of Naphtali and the people of Zebulun, and I will draw out Sisera, the general of Jabin's army, to meet you by the river Kishon with his chariots and troops, and I will give him into your hand. And she said I will surely go with you. Nevertheless, the road on which you were going will not lead to your glory, for the Lord will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. Then Deborah arose and went with Barak to Kadesh, and Barak called out Zebulun and Naphtali to Kadesh, and 10,000 men went up at his heels and Deborah went up with him. What do you make of that exchange?
Speaker 1:Boy. There's several things in there that piqued my interest. First of all, the way they talked to them. She's like has not the Lord commanded you? It's like did he already know this or is this her just saying it's a matter of fact that the Lord has said you need to go do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of interesting. We don't know for sure. Yeah it may. My tentative guess would be that she's just starting off saying hey, god is telling you to do this, so go do it Right. But, it may also be that he had heard something beforehand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and she's reinforcing it. First take is he lacked some faith. He needed her there. What's going on there?
Speaker 2:I think that's a fair assessment. Like he has a moment where he's like I'm not feeling great about this, so I want some extra reinforcements. Yeah, and you will see if you look at commentaries on this story, people are pretty hard on Barack for that.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And I think that's reasonable. He does have a moment of weakness or a little failure there, but I think it's also important to remember what happens next. So Deborah tells him all right, I'll go with you, but you're not going to get the glory for what's going to happen. Yeah, and how does Barack react to that?
Speaker 1:I don't remember.
Speaker 2:We don't see him say anything. But what does he do? I mean, he goes and does it.
Speaker 2:He goes and does it, yeah, so he doesn't throw a tantrum and go home. It's like, well, I'm not getting the glory, I'm not going to do anything yeah, supposed to do. He musters up the army and Deborah goes along with him and they go get to work. So I think it's fair to point out that Barak has the moment of weakness there. But it's also important to point out that he is told of the consequences for his moment of weakness, accepts them and goes and does what he needs to do anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.
Speaker 2:And then he raises up men from some tribes we haven't encountered. I mean, these are further my map to double check. Of course, you can find any number of different maps that conflict with each other. Israel during this period, because they're based on a lot of towns that don't exist anymore, that's right.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think the river Kishon is also up north. Okay, so we'll skip over verse 11 for the moment. We'll come back to that here in a bit. But in 12 through 16, you basically have an account of the battle. We're not going to go through it in full detail, but basically Barak and his men fight Sisera and his men and his chariots 900. 900 chariots. And then I don't think it tells us how many men he has specifically, but it's probably a pretty good chunk. Yeah, most of the account of the battle we get here is in verse 15, which is and the Lord routed Sisera and all his chariots and all his army before Barak by the edge of the sword and Sisera got down from his chariot and fled away on foot. In verse 16, it tells you that Barak wipes out the rest of Sisera's army, but Sisera escapes.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So Barak has done a good job. He's had God's help. It specifically credits God with the victory, but we don't get a ton of specifics apart from that, at least in chapter four. What you do get comes out actually in chapter five, which is the song of Deborah and Barack where they're celebrating the victory. So we have a couple of little nuggets in there. If you'll take five verses four and five.
Speaker 1:Lord, when you went out from Seir, when you marched from the field of Edom, the earth quaked. The heavens also dripped, even the clouds dripped water. The mountains quaked at the presence of the Lord, this Sinai, at the presence of the Lord, the God of Israel.
Speaker 2:And then in verses 20 and 21, you have from heaven the stars fought, from their courses. They fought against Sisera. The torrent Kaishon swept them away. The ancient torrent, the torrent Kaishon, march on my soul with might. So the general thought on what happened here basically, they're fighting next to a river With chariots. You want like a big, flat, open space, yeah, so there's probably a floodplain next to the river. That Sisera says all right, this is a good spot, we've got lots of open space for the chariots to maneuver in. So we're going to fight here and they fight there. And then during the battle, the river floods and suddenly the chariots are not quite as useful as they used to be. That's right, because they, you know, they would get stuck in mud, basically, or they just don't maneuver as well in you know six inches of water or whatever happens to be there.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so that is the general thought on how God manipulated events so that Israel was victorious in that battle With the weather. Going back to verse 11, we have a little introduction to Heber the Kenite, who had separated from the other Kenites. The Kenites were apparently the descendants of Jethro, or Hobab, the father-in-law of Moses, okay, and he has apparently made friends with Jabin and Sisera during this time. So, if you'll pick us up in verse 17 of chapter 4.
Speaker 1:Now Sisera fled away on foot to the tent of Jael, the wife of Heber the Kenite, for there was peace between Jabin, the king of Hazor, and the house of Heber the Kenite. Jael went to meet Sisera and said to him turn aside, my master, turn aside to me, do not be afraid. And he turned aside to her into the tent and she covered him with a rug and he said to her please give me a little water to drink, for I am thirsty. So she opened a bottle of milk and gave him a drink and then she covered him. He said to her stand in the doorway of the tent, and it shall be. If anyone comes and inquires of you and says, is there anyone here, that you shall say no.
Speaker 2:So think about this from Cicero's perspective. Okay, what kind of day is he having? The worst, he's probably literally having the worst day of his life. Yeah, his army has been wiped out. That army probably includes officers and people he's known for decades, if not more. Yeah, his own chariot has been ditched. He ran off on foot. He's having just the worst day, literally, that he has ever had. If you're coming back to your king with the only guy left the army's been wiped out how do you think the king is going to react to that? It's not going to be good. It's not going to be great. We've talked before about how the Canaanites were not especially friendly and caring people.
Speaker 1:No, he's probably harsh people.
Speaker 2:His life is probably forfeit at this point.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:How much of that do you think Jael knows seeing him approach.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't, wouldn't think she would know much but so it says in here.
Speaker 2:There was peace between Jabin, the king of Hazor, and the house of Heber, the Kenite Right. So I read that as she is familiar with them, as like with Jabin and Sisera, possibly as people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he would be a well-known figure.
Speaker 2:He'd be a well-known figure and when she's seen him before he's had the chariot, he's been in charge, he's had guys following around doing stuff for him, and she sees him now running up on foot completely exhausted, possibly covered in mud or blood or something else. Yeah, Disheveled for sure for sure, I think she can tell that things have not worked out well for him. Okay, and she makes sense.
Speaker 1:It seems fairly clear also that she knows who he is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he straight up tells her there might be people looking for me, like, if anyone comes, tell them to go somewhere else. And so we'll see how jail handles that, starting in verse 21, as he has been basically put down for a nap. But jail, the wife of Hebrew, took a tent peg and took a hammer in her hand. Then she went softly to him and drove the peg into his temple until it went down into the ground while he was lying fast asleep from weariness. So he died. And behold, as Barak was pursuing Sisera, jael went out to meet him and said to him Come and I will show you the man whom you are seeking. So he went into her tent and their sister laid dead with the tent peg in his temple.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what do you make of JL? That seems like a very courageous, brave act. That seems like a really risky thing to attempt.
Speaker 2:It's a bold move. Bold move, there you go. But I think, at the same time, knowing what she knows about the situation, seeing this guy who used to be, you know, in charge of a whole lot of people and in military finery and a very powerful person, and he comes up and looks awful, looks like he's had the worst day of his life because he has had the worst day of his life and shows up looking completely disheveled and basically trying to hide from people who are chasing him disheveled and basically trying to hide from people who were chasing him. My thought, to some extent and this took me a few readings and some conversations to fully crystallize, but my thought is she sees an opportunity here.
Speaker 2:It may be that her husband and his family have kind of tied themselves to this guy and he's going to be. He's clearly out of favor at this point and so she's taking the opportunity to reposition herself favor at this point, and so she's taking the opportunity to reposition herself. It may just be that she says, all right, well, this guy is down on his luck, to put it very gently, and the people who are chasing him are probably going to be in a better position to help us out than he is. When I first read it I just assumed that she was trying to help out the Israelites. My thought at this point is that she was trying to help out herself and her family more than she was trying to help out the Israelites, like I don't think she was trying to do God's work here. I think she was trying to. She was acting opportunistically, from not selfishness necessarily, but from like, personal like, from concern for her family or interest in improving the situation of her family.
Speaker 1:It does seem clear that she picked up and he said as much, or he let on as much, that somebody's going to show up Right, Somebody's pursuing him.
Speaker 2:Someone's looking for me, yeah, and I don't want them to find me. And that's not a situation he would have been in before, right, like who would have been able to chase Cicero when he has 900 charioteers following him? You don't chase that guy. He chases you If he's in the spot where he's the one being chased. Something has taken a dramatic turn, that's right, and JO, I think, is trying to reposition herself and her family in the new circumstances, and she does it very successfully, yeah.
Speaker 1:There's some wild choices of weapons and tools in the book of judges right.
Speaker 2:It tends to just be whatever is handy.
Speaker 1:Ox code tent peg. What else have we seen?
Speaker 2:It's just, it's wild to me that's most of what we've seen so far, but we will have at least one other obvious example later on.
Speaker 1:One other weird one right. A sword is pretty normal, but just the detail of Ehud's dagger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the shorter one that's stored on the wrong thigh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 2:Um, that's wild, but yeah. So from there we have uh. Barack catches up, as we've, as we've said, he finds Cicero dead and J Been, the king of Canaan, is is destroyed and the Israelites are freed again.
Speaker 1:There's another implication there to me, that maybe why jail does what she does. If Cicero has been defeated, that King ain't going to stand either.
Speaker 2:That was his only. His army is gone. His army.
Speaker 1:That's all he had.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, so after that we have a song. Uh, deborah and Barack get together and sing a song celebrating their victory, so we'll pull out a few little chunks from that. We've already looked a couple times at little nuggets that kind of suggest how the battle itself played out.
Speaker 1:On a bigger note, is this a cultural thing to write a song after an event? Is this a way to spread the news?
Speaker 2:It seems to be, because it's not uncommon, as you go through the Bible to see the Israelites sing a song celebrating something. You have it in Exodus after the crossing of the Red Sea, yeah, something. You have it in Exodus after the crossing of the Red Sea. You have the famous Saul is slain as thousands and David is tens of thousands after the death of Goliath. Yeah, it's scattered throughout the Old Testament. I mean songs are written to celebrate things all the time even today.
Speaker 2:I think the ones we write today may not be written down and re-read 3,000 years later, right? But yeah, it's still definitely a factor in our culture as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it just seems like an easy way to spread information. Definitely In that day and time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially when maybe not everyone could read, when writing implements weren't easy to come by, you certainly couldn't just email someone and let them know what happened, but a song is a good way to put things in a form that is going to be more memorable. Yeah, that'll stick with the person you're sending it out with and then the people you send it to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you take it the way it reads that Deborah and Barack wrote this song, or? I don't just saying it's about them.
Speaker 2:It says they sang it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It doesn't say for sure that they wrote it.
Speaker 1:So maybe, maybe it was a spontaneous outpouring.
Speaker 2:Maybe they got together and had someone write something for them that put the elements in there that they wanted, right, it's not a hundred percent clear. We had a big day.
Speaker 1:Bring forth the songwriters. Get the bards in here, that's right.
Speaker 2:We'll put some songs together celebrating what's going on. Excellent. As we go through that, we'll start off in verse 6. In the days of Shamgar, son of Anath. In the days of Jael, the highways were abandoned and travelers kept to the byways. The villagers ceased in Israel, they ceased to be until I arose. I, deborah, arose as a mother in Israel when new gods were chosen. Then war was in the gates. Was shield or spear to be seen among 40,000 in Israel? So what was the situation?
Speaker 1:before this. They're reminding the previous judge's success. Right, but it had fallen away, right, yeah. So my read on that is.
Speaker 2:Shamgar is essentially a contemporary of Deborah. Okay, he was kind of doing his operations in the southwest and Deborah's working up north.
Speaker 1:They're pretty far apart regionally, but okay, gotcha.
Speaker 2:But the situation before the battle was not great. Like you, have abandoned highways travelers sticking to the back roads so that they wouldn't possibly get ambushed by the army.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so even the villagers ceased like just things have shut down. You also have a little nugget in verse eight when new gods were chosen, then war was in the gates. So there's the reminder. You guys wandered away from God and then bad things happened to you.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:All right, if you'll take 13 through 18.
Speaker 1:Then, survivors came down to the nobles. The people of the Lord came down to me as warriors. Down to the nobles. The people of the Lord came down to me as warriors. From Ephraim, those whose root is Amalek, came down Following you, benjamin, with your peoples. From Machir, commanders came down, and from Zebulon, those who willed, the staff of office and the princes of Issachar were with Deborah, as was Issachar, so was Barak Into the valley, they rushed at his heels. Among the divisions of Reuben, there were great resolves of heart. Why did you sit among the sheepfolds to hear the piping for the flocks? Among the divisions of Reuben, there were great searchings of the heart. Jordan, and why did Dan stay in ships? Asher sat at the seashore and remained by its landings. Zebulon was a people who despised their lives, even to death, and Naphtali also, on the high places of the field.
Speaker 2:So what do you make of that?
Speaker 1:To me there's still not national unity. Definitely there's still some infighting and some resentment between the tribes.
Speaker 2:100% Okay, I mean, it's interesting to me that you have this song of celebration You've won a great victory and you take a good chunk of that song to call out the people who didn't show up. Yeah, it's like hey, Reuben, where were you? We were out fighting for our lives out here. What were you doing? Sitting at home in your sheepfolds? Hey, Asher, get off your boats and get over here.
Speaker 1:You think about a culture and a time and place and what is of great value. What are the virtues? And I'm seeing a theme here where if you don't come and help the family when you're called boy, that's a major violation.
Speaker 2:Definitely. We saw it again in chapter 21 with the Levite and his concubine, the town that didn't show up to help out. They went back and wiped those guys out at the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oof.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so show up when you're called. That was a big deal at the time. Yeah, jumping ahead to verse 24. You have most blessed of women be Jael, the wife of Heber, the Kenite of tent-dwelling women, most blessed. He asked for water and she gave him milk. She brought him curds and a noble's bowl. She set her hand to the tent peg and her right hand to the workman's mallet. She struck Sisera. She crushed his head. She shattered and pierced his temple Between her feet. He sank, he fell. He lay still Between her feet. He sank, he fell. When he sank there, he fell dead.
Speaker 1:Hmm, I see a prophecy fulfilled. Yeah On Deborah. Told Barack you're not going to get the glory, it's going to be a woman, absolutely, and boom.
Speaker 2:I do wonder if Deborah, when she said that, thought it meant her.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I wonder, cause it's not stated clearly, she doesn't say it's going to be.
Speaker 2:She doesn't say it's going to be me. She says it's going to be a woman, but we don't know how much of the outcome she was actually aware of and that would have been a natural assumption. Like I'm the one who's going down with you. Therefore I'm going to be considered the leader. But it wasn't her, it was jail, which we kind of talked about her actions earlier.
Speaker 2:But if you think about it just kind of from, I guess, a cultural perspective, if you invited someone into your house at that point you were responsible for what happened to them. Basically, like hospitality was a huge deal, huge deal. You invite someone into your house and then you murder them. Usually that's going to be frowned on and that's essentially what JL does here. She's not like we understand why she did it. Yeah, but certainly if things had gone the other way in the battle, like that would have gone terribly for her terribly. And even with that, like there may have been an inclination to say, all right, yeah, it helped us out, but she murdered this guy. Like she just brought him into her house and then she murdered him while he was asleep. Yeah, that's not what they say. Like she gets the credit.
Speaker 1:Most blessed, as we said beforehand. Yeah, most blessed, as we said beforehand. Yeah, yeah, this is most blessed. Is she of woman in the tent she's lauded in this song?
Speaker 2:absolutely, yeah it also goes into almost an alarming amount of detail about the, the mechanics of cicero's death. It does, yeah, this would definitely fit into that hbo special as well. I think it's right okay all right, and then if you'll take 28 through 31 to finish the chapter, Out of the window she looked and lamented the mother of Cicera through the lattice.
Speaker 1:Why does his chariot delay in coming? Why did the hoof beats of his chariots, terry? Her wise princesses would answer her. Indeed, she repeats her words to herself. Her wise princesses would answer her. Indeed, she repeats her words to herself. Are they not finding, are they not dividing the spoil? A maiden, two maidens for every warrior To Sisera, a spoil of dyed work. A spoil of dyed work, embroidered Dyed work of double embroidery on the neck of the spoiler. Thus, let all your enemies perish, o Lord, but let those who love him be like the rising of the sun in its might, and the land was undisturbed for 40 years.
Speaker 2:Another 40 years of peace after this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So what do you get kind of at the end of the song there, not the last verse, but the three verses before that.
Speaker 1:There's this idea that of course Sisera would win, and he hasn't made it back, but it must be because he's collecting all the spoils.
Speaker 2:It is an odd choice to go kind of like to the perspective of Cicero's mother there Right, but I think within that it serves as a reminder of what would have happened if Cicero had won.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:In particular the maiden or two for every man like, or the. In ESV it says a womb or two for every man which is an odd word to choose there from our modern perspective, but it's like. This is what would have happened if we had lost Like they would have carried off our women, our wives and daughters to just serve as what that kind of person would normally serve as after you lose the battle, basically.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, that's interesting way to state that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is what we were saved from. And then the land was undisturbed for 40 years. That's already half the time of the last time that was stated 40 years is still a long time. It's still a generation.
Speaker 2:It's the same amount of time that Othniel got after his victory.
Speaker 1:So the 80 years after Ehud was the outlier, okay.
Speaker 2:Got it. So it's still a long time, it's just not as long as the last one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a generation Mm-hmm. Peace Okay.
Speaker 2:We kind of touched on how Deborah and Barack were thinking about things at the beginning of the story and we circle back to it here at the end. So what do you take away from the story of Deborah and Barack as a lesson?
Speaker 1:Hmm, I mean the one basic one is when the Lord tells you to go do something, go do it.
Speaker 2:Definitely yeah, like even if you have that moment of hesitation at the beginning, yeah, go do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a wonderful thing to be led by somebody with wisdom and character. Mm-hmm, that would be nice.
Speaker 2:It is nice in the, in the seemingly rare opportunities that we get, that these days.
Speaker 1:That's right yeah.
Speaker 2:The thing that sticks out to me is so we have the exchange early on with Barack and Deborah, and again we talked about how Barack hesitates at first and then goes and does it after being told you're not going to get the glory for what happens, and at the end you see Deborah and Barack willingly giving the credit for what happened to JL, who was just someone who happened to be in the right place at the right time and invited a guy into her house and then murdered him. And that, I think, is a helpful perspective for us to have, not necessarily the part about the murdering someone who comes into your house, but the part about being willing to not worry about getting the credit for things you accomplish, especially things you accomplish when you're doing God's work. Yeah, that reminds me of let me go to this passage, if I can remember where it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, while you're digging for that, that was something my dad impressed upon me and that I'm thankful for, and he would often say if you don't care who gets the credit, you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It reminds me of first Corinthians and I find myself going to first and second Corinthians all the time when reading judges, because partly just there's there are a lot of verses in there that jump out to me but partly also the Corinthian church was in some ways similar to Israel during the time of the judges and that they did not have any idea what they were doing and Paul yells at them a lot.
Speaker 2:Yes, so we get one of those instances of Paul yelling at them in 1 Corinthians 3, where Paul says, starting in verse 3, for while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? For when one says I follow Paul and another says I follow Apollos, are you not merely being human? What then is Apollos? What is Paul Servants, through whom you believed as the Lord assigned to each? I planted, apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything but only God who gives the growth.
Speaker 2:So it's the same sense of these guys were arguing about who the better teacher was, whether it was Paul or Apollos, or which person are we following? Which person are we giving the credit for what's going on? And Paul says no, don't give it to either of us. Give it to God. We were just God's instruments, and that's. That's the same thing I see with Deborah and Barack. They were both willing to serve as God's instruments and not worry about whether they got the credit at the end of the day, and they accomplished great things through that.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate that perspective. Very often in this book, and especially if you read or listen to people teach on this book or read commentaries there seems to be almost an obsession with finding and pointing out everybody's faults, like they're rarely obvious. You know it doesn't need a lot of help, but I think sometimes we forget about the good things that they've done and the character exhibited.
Speaker 2:And here I've never seen that part of the story, so I really appreciate you drawing that out. Yeah, and that's the main theme of the book for me is not just that all these people are flawed, it's that they're flawed, but God works through them anyway. Yeah, I love that. Of course they're flawed. They're human beings, you, god works through them anyway. Yeah, I love that, of course they're flawed, they're human beings.
Speaker 2:You know who else is flawed? Almost every other human being that's ever existed. I can think of one exception to that, one exception. And yet God chooses to work through them. Yeah, and even though we are flawed, he can do the same thing through us if we give him the chance to.
Speaker 1:Well said, I love it All right that if we give them the chance to, well said, I love it All right. That wraps up this week. Next week we will jump into Judges 6 and continue on Looking forward to it. All right, we'll see you all next week. Thanks for joining Fellowship Around the Table. If you would like to learn more, go to fbctulsaorg. That's another, you know, implication.
