Rebuilding After Divorce Part 1

What if the label “divorced” didn’t get the last word on your life? We open up about the shock of identity shifts, the ache of church missteps, and the fierce tenderness of a God who rescues. With guest voices shaped by ministry, widowhood, and fresh experience, we trace a path from survival to stability: naming harm, choosing safety, and rebuilding with scripture that feels like oxygen rather than noise.

We dig into the numbers without losing the humans behind them, and we talk candidly about faith’s real role in marriage stability. You’ll hear how small groups became lifelines, how mentors taught a richer theology of divorce that protects the vulnerable, and why Ezekiel’s Good Shepherd promises—“they shall no longer be prey”—can reframe the whole journey. We don’t romanticize trauma; we give you workable steps: therapy, community care, practical safety moves, and a simple litmus test for when you’re ready to date again. Expect nuance—owning your part without absorbing someone else’s sin, separating emotion from readiness, and choosing partners whose character proves out over time.

There’s hope here for the social whiplash too. We trade scripts for boundaries, awkward reveals for honest pacing, and we remember your marital status isn’t your most interesting trait. For parents, we talk about modeling healthy love so kids don’t inherit chaos as normal. And threaded through it all is the anchor image that steadies our hearts: being the bride of Christ, welcomed down the aisle week after week by a Groom who never breaks covenant and never threatens safety.

Transcript

Why Talk About Divorce Now

Renee Richel 0:04

Hello, welcome back. We are so excited to begin a very important topic that I think I always say it's good to know the things you told you before we get into relationships. So joining us today, we have Amanda West, which we're so excited to join us as she speaks to women in ministry and just near and dear to her heart. If you've listened to any of our other podcasts we've done, also going through the walks of not only divorce, but also widow and single and mom and all the things and relationships. So we have chosen her for this round table, minus the table part. So everybody's gonna have a creative mind here, right? Discussion of what people are asking us that have gone through some heartbreaks. So I'm so grateful you all are here to be vulnerable with us. And we have a beautiful addition, Kerena Marie, who has her master's degree in Bible and theology. And she also ministers to women out there. Um, and I love the name of your online, like, you know, platform that you have, which is called Disco Theo Online. So Kerena, tell us a little bit about what that is.

Kerena Marie 1:17

Yeah, Disco Theo is uh Disco Ball Theology. And so anyone who's had like a terrible thing happen in their life, I like to imagine it as like you're this sheet of mirror, and then you get smashed into a bunch bunch of bits. And then the Lord takes you gingerly and kind of hot glows you back onto this orb and hangs you up high, and his light shines on you first. And so his light and his love and his healing and that radiates off of you. And so it's not the broken things that you have to hide away or have not be seen. It's actually the broken things he can bring into something new and something beautiful and shimmery that he can shine his light on and that that can be shown on to others.

Disco Ball Theology Explained

Divorce Stats And Faith Factors

Renee Richel 1:57

I love it. That's a good stuff here. You're joining us. And okay, so we started off to pull reports because I like to know stats, right? And this is just obviously an average, not everybody fits into this category. So if you are listening to this and you are going through some tough decisions or just tough times, this particular topic is uh geared to divorce, right? People that are really starting to face the challenges that have either gone through it and then feel like, oh my gosh, how do I begin again? So I know this is not an easy topic, but I wanted to pull up stats that we got actually from modern family law. As of 2024, the US divorce rate remains between 40 to 60 percent for the first time marriage, which is still I mean, my mission and passion is to change a divorce rate. And how do I do that? By working not to be fixing them to the right person in the right purse out of the gate, right? And working in a relationship because what I think people forget about is they want marriage, but then they're only one side of the coin and they figure that the other person will be everything they want, but they don't really realize how much work it is. So, in any event, I digress, but then the likelihood of divorce increases on a second marriage, and that actually goes up to 60 to 70, 67 percent of second time, second-time marriages end in divorce. And if we're talking third-time marriages, the stats keep going up and it's more at like 70%. So if you're listening to this and you're like, I am not of that stat, great, and you're listening to this, share it to anybody else that you know, because we want to change those numbers, and it takes a village and a community to do that. The other thing that it goes on to say is um religion can significantly impact marriage stability. According to Pew research, individuals who regularly attend service are 14% less likely to divorce than those who do not. Um, so obviously, all of us that are women of faith also know that you have to have a partner that's equally immersed in that. And when we're picking and choosing our needs and wants or non-negotiables, these are things that sometimes people overlook. Now, I am gonna sit here and say I have many of our couples that are happily married today, and maybe one walked deeper rooted in their faith, and the other one, they had to be a little patient, but they also invited and now are stronger together as a team. So I also say don't discount somebody that's maybe not fully immersed, but yet has a thirst for it. Invite them in and grow your faith rooted together, is like the most important detail just in life outside of even then, you know, obviously then starting a marriage and relationship from there. So we're gonna dive in today, asking each one of us to answer, right? So here we go. We're gonna go on this vulnerability train that I think is also really gonna be so helpful and beneficial. I wish I had this knowledge way back then, is why I think this is a passionate and also important topic to talk about. So these are questions that our audience have written in that when we talk about this, they want to know. And we're doing this in a two-part series. Um, we're also bringing in a couple of um our team member with one to match two to discuss it kind of from the matchmaking perspective. But I wanted you ladies who are influenced other women to also hear it from your perspective too. So let's start off with the first question. How did divorce shift your identity?

Kerena Marie 5:30

I think one of the things that shifted for me was I feel like I at first, like it was like the first thing people saw about me was that I was divorced. Like anyone who knew me saw my ring gone, and that was just who I was now. Like my identity was like big red letter D on my chest, divorced. Like that's who I am now. I'm that divorced friend that everyone saw on Facebook and everyone heard from a friend of a friend of a friend. And I was like, this is who I am now. And it totally shifted that. And it took a really long time for me to gain the confidence to realize I'm not actually the worst thing that's ever happened to me. Uh, that's like not who I am. But that really shifted, like when I was going through my divorce, and especially when I was freshly divorced, was uh everybody knows now, like everybody can see this. And that's my first identifier when people think about me or talk about me or talk or whatever is the divorced girl. And I was like, oh, is that who I am now to everyone? Is the divorced girl, which I'm not. I'm not the worst thing that's ever happened to me. And no one is the worst thing that's ever happened to him. But that really like shifted in me. Yeah, 100%.

Renee Richel 6:46

I can't agree more. What about you, Amanda?

Amanda West 6:48

So I would say I was married so young that I did not have time to build my identity in Christ before I was married, because coming out of that divorce was really it was that moment where I really had to lean in and start building that relationship with the Lord and knowing that my identity was not in a relationship. Yeah, it was in Christ. Sure. It was a really beautiful walk for me, to be honest. Even though it was hard and lonely at times, my relationship with the Lord grew exponentially, 100%.

Renee Richel 7:22

Yeah. And, you know, I mean, for our audience that doesn't know Kerena and know your full story yet, or even mine, right, in general too. Amanda and I have similar stories that, you know, I grew up in faith, but yet then when you go off to college, I was like, I don't have to do this every more on Sundays, every Sunday anymore. And and my life group of my age demographic was not necessarily who I wanted to hang out with. So I only went because my parents forced me to go, but I couldn't wait to be done. Like when that hour was over, I'm out. My sister, on the other hand, was a whole different experience because she loved the girl, like the her life group, right? Because they were friends in her school, like right, and just silly things you don't really think about, but it really does shape you. And obviously, Kerena, you've been walking your faith the entire your entire journey, right?

Kerena Marie 8:08

Yes, yeah. I've been Christian. I grew up in faith. So I was like really, you know, like the Lord had a grip on my heart and I loved him my whole childhood and into adulthood. And so that was a big identity switch for me too, is like grieving this, like, I don't know, I guess like good Christian girl thing where it was like, I did everything right. I like, you know, I loved God, I served in church, I served people in my neighborhood, I went to a Bible college, I went again to a Bible college. I like met a nice Christian guy and like had mentors and pastors and people involved all the way through. And my marriage still crumbled and I'm divorced now. And so then that was grieving like this identity of being, I'm this good Christian girl, which is like silly anyway, because the Lord reaches out to anybody, no matter who you are. And um, so I think that was a big identity switch for me too, is like letting go of like, oh no, that's like not who I am, is the things that I do that I believe or perceive as being good. It's actually like God's invitation towards me and my response of yes to him, even in the midst of tragedy and like devastation. But yeah, so faith has been a really big part of my life for my as much as I can remember.

Audience Questions And Format

How Divorce Shifts Identity

Renee Richel 9:32

And I would say my story is similar to you, that you you realize how much it does affect you, not only from what people then view you as, and when you take all those symbolizations that people look at, but also then when you have to start filling out all this paperwork and you know that you're single or you're married, now you have the big D in front of you and your label, right? And it's like that, you know, and I mean still today when you fill out forms, right? You know, oh yeah, to get married again, and then it's like, but where I'm going with that is you know, it it does shift because I too, I was like, when I got married, I was like, this is it forever, right? I have heard from other people, they say it's the worst day of your life. I was like, okay, yeah, but you did it, right? You got remarried. Like, how bad could it be until you experience it? Because go from completely in love with somebody, completely blind, to then honestly becoming enemies, right? I mean, to get to that point where you are getting and it's just such a psychological warfare that you're playing with yourself because everybody blames themselves, right? And it just is a huge moment in your life. You let down God, you let down his family, you've let down yourself. Um, but it really does shift your life until right, you also come out of the bubble of emotions to realize, you know, what God's plan is for you. And did this relationship, was it God's plan or was it more your own plan? Right. And how were you being fruitful and building the Lord's kingdom together? And I think for myself personally, um, and we'll get into the other questions, was it was like, okay, this was more, I guess I would say, our choice than seeking the Lord's permission in this marriage because of things we did not know or ask about each other, which that's why I always say I have the company I have today, because I did not have the foundation of the company when I got married to know the questions to ask. That would have been more than just the feelings in the beginning, the lust, but more um position to ask the questions of long-term involvement together in the Lord, too, which I'm hearing about say too going through that. So, how did the church um respond or engage with you before, during, and after divorce? I guess we're gonna just start with you, Green, each time.

Kerena Marie 12:12

Oh, sure. I'm happy to talk about that. Well, I think about the church in two different categories. I think about the church I was like locally a part of, and then I also think about the church globally. So anyone who professes with their mouth that Jesus is Lord, believes in their heart that he is their savior. And so the church that I was a part of locally responded very, very differently than the church at large, people who I knew who were Christians, who loved the Lord and loved me. And so when I was going through my divorce, um it was uh it was really, it was just really dark. And the things that happened at my church were like, I talk about it in the way of like the pastors that I had, I think that they were doing the best that they could with what they knew and what they had. And I was still the first person to go through a divorce in their community and congregation. And so they had absolutely no idea what to do with me. Um, because also for me, when I was married and then also going through divorce, there was never a sense of me and my spouse chose each other wrong. Like for me, it was never this sense of like, oh God, I went against you in this marriage. It was um this like watching my spouse turn away from God and um choose things that were really, really not okay continually. And so with abuse, abandonment, and infidelity, watching that go down and having my pastors and congregation step in, there was a lot of just like fear of the hurting sheep and forgiveness for the wolf. And that's how it really landed was um let's go and try to help this man who has treated his wife so horribly and meet him with God's forgiveness. And wow, this woman is just so angry and she's so hurt. We should just back off. And um, and that was really tragic, just to see, you know, the people who were shepherding me, calling them and being like, hey, my spouse just told me he's divorcing me. Um, and can you come to my house and pray? And they were like, it is late at night and you're a girl, we can't come. And I'm like, just come and bring someone with you. Like, I don't know, just be here. Like, you need to come and be here. I'm asking for like help and you're needing me as like this liability. Um, and so there was like that in the congregation. And then there was my small group at church. And my small group at church really stepped up, and they were the first people to be like, we need to get you safe. We need food for you, we need shelter for you, we need to like come over to your house and pray. We need to make sure all of your needs are met. And so they really stepped up in a big way. Um, and then outside of that, there were people who were a part of the church, but were not a part of my congregation. And those were the people who were like, you need somewhere to live right now. Come and move into my house right now, and we will just scoop you up and take care of you. And so, yeah, I think that like the way my church responded was pretty heartbreaking and pretty tragic. It was like big deer in the headlights of like, what do we do? And um, it was pretty clear pretty quickly that I was seen and perceived as this like liability of like, oh, we've got to be careful what we do and say around Kerena. And then we've got to bring all these witnesses around just to make sure that like there's people here. So she doesn't say we said something that we didn't say or do or whatever. And then it was just, whoo, sorry. Um, and then so I think that was pretty tragic for me is seeing like I was treated like a liability and not like a hurting broken sheep who just needs restoration and healing. Yeah. And then yeah, the larger like global church, I think they really scoot me up.

Renee Richel 16:21

The instructions are to not get divorced, right? So you're left in this island of what do we do with you, right? Yes. So like I'm so sorry that we had to go through that, but thanks. I mean, there's there's not a lot of things. I mean, yes, the churches that offer like divorced care, I highly recommend people to go through. But yeah, that you know, churches struggle. Like, what do we do with divorced people and what do we do with the singles, right? In that regard.

Faith, Guilt, And Self-Worth

Amanda West 16:54

So how about you, I mean? I felt the opposite of Kerena because I was so new in my walk and and fake that I wasn't really dialed in with the church family yet. Okay, I wasn't, I was more attending, taking me and having time on my own with award. And I think that in some reason I looked bad about it, I had such a great ninth of adult friends that surrounded me. So I felt like I had support. But from what I had walked from religion as a child and being under a miracle my whole life, I almost think that fine brain was a blessing, really, that the church wasn't involved in walking with the Lord. Right. And I needed that time to build the trust of God. And ultimately, even though in the back of my mind, and I can remember saying to the Lord many times, like, I know that you do not want me to get divorced. And the Bible says that you're against it, but over and over again, I still could see him blessing me just in ways to let me know I still love you.

Renee Richel 17:57

Right.

Amanda West 17:58

Still loved.

How Churches Responded

Renee Richel 17:59

Right, which I love that. I mean, so I would say my story is a little bit some more similar to yours, but I would say a combination. Going through all of that, I turned to the Lord first and foremost. I mean, I do remember asking the community of like a supper club group we were a part of, like a life group, right? And asking them to a point of after trying and reading and researching and all this stuff to make it work, I was like, okay, like now it's time to really ask for help. And I remember one gentleman coming and sitting with my husband at the time and having a conversation, but it really didn't lead to anything further. Um, super intelligent man, but lacked the ounce of belief because he has more of a science brain. Um dual pastors that are episcopal preachers. So I assume of all people, he knows this, right? But there was a lack of belief and trust, I guess, in the Lord. And I was just starting to just fuel my faith even more. So I mean, the good that came out of it, it strengthened my relationship with God and then trusting Him to now, you know, be aligned to others, how important that is, I would say. Um, you had mentioned earlier about like abuse and lies, like that was a big part of um, and not so much physical, but more of mental, right? Um, and um just lies from the very beginning that then surface that can't carry on, right? So I'll never forget when I sat with my um pastor at the time, um they were just basically sharing, like, right, you I want you to keep trying. I'm never gonna promote anybody getting divorced, of course, right? I'm your pastor. You know, sometimes people just also have Satan and the devil inside of them, right? And until they're able to understand that and seek that, like there's only so much you can do. And you're in in no way, shape, and form. I'm not telling you what to do, but you're enabling somebody that also doesn't get help because you can't change the way that they're thinking or their thoughts, right? And I'll just never forget that moment of being like, oh my gosh, like instead of being angry or feeling like I did something wrong, instead, I need to be very prayerful for him, right? And try any way that I can to not change him, but hope that, right, maybe in time that'll be a deeply rooted meeting. And you know, ultimately we all have our stories, we're all sitting here, right? Um, I think it's the reality of yes, the church was kind of there in our church. There was other divorces, right? So they were kind of used to that. They suggested the divorce care process of all of that. Um, but I do ultimately feel, like in your case too, it it helped me to fall even more deeply in love with Christ, like they say, and right, the church to say this is how a relationship should feel. And that love feels, and it will always feel better than any human love, right? But it should be a close second on earth that we should have and that caring, nurturing feeling that we have for our father that loves us deeply. What truths from the Lord did you cling to inside of the the basically the turmoil of the season that you might still be that might still be inside of you, which I feel like we kind of just shared that in some regards.

Kerena Marie 21:25

But yeah, I would love to talk about this. There's a few. One is, you know, that passage that says like the steadfast love of the Lord never ceases, his mercies never come to an end. They are new every morning, great is your faithfulness. Okay, so when I was going through divorce, there were people who were like, Don't you feel so close to God? Um, and I was like, No. And then there were people who were like, Are you pissed and do you hate him? And I was like, No, neither. Like, I am just trying to survive and learn how to eat, sleep, sleep, breathe, and like. exists in my body. I don't hate him and I don't like feel, I don't romanticize trauma. So no, neither. Um and this verse really helped me a lot. Lamentations three, 22, and 23 helped me so much because I was so like, I was like, I don't know how to pray anything other than like help me, oh help me, help, help, help, God help, literally for a year. But one of the things that really helped was every night, I would not do this in the morning ever. But like, you know, it's like his mercies are no remote. I never did that in the morning. But at night there was always this sense to me and the only grateful thing I had to say that day for so many days was thank you, God, that I never have to live that day ever again, ever again. I never have to live it any ever again because, and then tomorrow your mercies will be new. So it was just like thank you that this day never has to exist again. I never have to file this paperwork ever again. I never have to hear the words that I've heard that are heinous and terrible ever again. I never have to, you know, every terrible day I never have to live it again. And so I just clung to that every day of like thank you, God. And then there was this feeling of like I know we're going to talk about later, but God is my safe groom. And we can talk about that later. But that was like another thing that I really clung to. And then the other really big one was um like God is going to rescue me because he's my good shepherd because I was totally not shepherded well whatsoever. But in Ezekiel 34, we hear about the bad shepherds and then we hear about the good shepherd God I myself will search for my sheep. I'll seek them out. I will rescue them from all places. I will feed them with good pasture. I will seek the lost I will find up the injured I will strengthen the weak. And then this part was a really big one for me. I will rescue my flock. They shall no longer be prey. And that was huge. And I think for the girls who are listening to this, if you're walking through abuse, I want you to know that the Lord rescues his flock. So he's gonna he can come and rescue you and that you being prey will be no more because he can come and rescue you. So that those were things that I like really clung to for sure.

Renee Richel 24:21

Yeah such a good message and I think that's the one thing instead of you know being like I can't believe I failed or all the feelings you feel it's also like no turn to the Lord more than anything is like the deepest time you are doing this trust ball exercise truly because he is wanting you to be in the best light of who he designed you to be as well too and remembering that right so um I I love that message.

Amanda West 24:52

Anything else you want to add to that I love that you're putting on the point about women who are in abusive relationships. If you are in abusive scenario don't stand it. Right. Yeah run run yes I think that was one of the I probably think of it a little bit differently than the two of you is that it was a moment for me to like break the chains of what generationally a lot of the women in my family have gone through. So when I walked out of divorce it was it there was a moment where I threw my shoulders back as far as it was and I was like there's there is nothing wrong of with being proud of that and don't feel like God's looking down on you. He will hold you and he will carry you through in whatever you have to face to get out of that scenario.

Renee Richel 25:49

Yeah that's true and not that I will ever say it was a proud moment in any anybody's walk right I'm also grateful that then God gave me this message inside to then inspire and help others right so that they don't make the same mistake that I did which was really the reason I started the Love Starts with you course because I'm like we don't love ourselves the way God loves us first and foremost. We are just putting ourselves back out there to repeat the same pattern and have ultimately same result. And I'm like how do I change that? How do we shift that and that's what led to the mission we have now today with obviously one true match is knowing ourselves knowing what's most valuable and important paralleling that with somebody that's a compliment of match right how have you been encouraged um specifically by friends and family in the church really wants to go with that.

Amanda West 26:46

It's probably more you because I really didn't help that support system.

Safety First And Pastoral Care Gaps

Kerena Marie 26:49

Oh yeah I would love to speak to that I mean I think that really right out the gate one of my best friends is mom who's like theologian to the max she knows her Greek and Hebrew I remember she sat me down and she told me really early on she was like Prina I don't think you know that God actually like regulates divorce in scripture. Did you know that? And I was like no I thought he hates it. And she sat down and walked with me through the passages in Deuteronomy and Matthew and um in First Corinthians and in Malachi and she just laid it all out for me of how God actually regulates divorce. And so it's not just like you can divorce anyone so flippant but it's also like for those who've been abandoned who walk through abuse and infidelity and all of this you know nuances that come with that, the Lord has actually provided you freedom and that's something you get to take. Is it his design from the beginning? No, but because of the hardness of heart and because of unrepentant sin and all of these things, the Lord has actually regulated divorce for you. And it was actually just this huge thing that no one had ever told me before it was just this like well I'm not divorced so I don't have to think deeply theologically about what divorce is so everyone kind of just backed off. But this woman just really pressed in and that was so encouraging. Oh and then people who like took safety as the most important thing people who were not like oh your spouse told you about his homicidal ideation stay and pray that he changes they were like homie's gonna kill you. Let's get you to another place you know what I mean um they were not like let's like ponder on like what God would have you do. They were like let's run away um so people who really prioritize that and then people who just saw like my wholeness people who were like hey let's get you into therapy let's get you like some other pastors from other churches who really care about you. Let's actually teach you what communion is and let's actually like encourage you if you don't want to go to that church to go to a different church. And so those were really encouraging things were people who took safety seriously and people who just constantly told me what was true. And then the other last thing that was really big for me is I did not like when people spouted verses at me. That did nothing for my heart. In past seasons it's been so helpful. But when I was going through divorce I was like don't tell me this random verse but what really helped was when people told me stories of women who had terrible things happen to them in the Bible and God kept them and they kept God. And that changed everything. So people would just come open scripture and just straight read me stories of women and I was like it was just this like bomb for my heart of just hearing other terrible stories and how God kept them. So I'd say that was like what was most encouraging.

Renee Richel 29:48

And so I love that you're bringing up some of those scriptures of just reminding us that every day God does forgive us right. And I'm not going to sit there and say you know the day that you realize you're getting divorced which is more or less when somebody serves somebody which I hate to even use those words it's the worst day right but then you also have to go through the emotional time of how long that could take which could be a year it could be two it could be three depending on how complicated things are right is in that season then is your time to actually rebirth yourself. And I remember when somebody had mentioned that to me and I was like okay so every day I'm gonna focus more on my love for Christ than I am anything else that I'm gonna surround myself around a community that's also going to encourage me instead of discourage me. And it's so hard we beat up ourselves right but it does take a village to have that support is so huge. So I love that I'll add some of the uh the the scripture that you also mentioned that others have shared with you. Okay, what lessons learned would you share with another person in the thick of divorce and what message brings hope that you've you're keen to share?

Kerena Marie 31:02

I don't know what the Lord is going to do with you and I don't know the end of your story, but I know that he'll remain with you in the same way he remains with Mary, mother of Jesus when Mary says yes to God she is Jesus inside of her and then her betrothed resolved to divorce her. And isn't it so cool that even when Jesus came to earth divorce is a part of that story. And of course we know Joseph didn't do it and he changes his mind but Mary knows what that's like before she knows the outcome and the resolve. So yeah I don't know what God is going to do but I do know that he's gonna remain with you and in you with his Holy Spirit as all of these things are happening.

Scriptures To Hold In The Storm

Renee Richel 31:43

I love that that was such a good message for sure for encouragement. Okay so for the heart that is longing for romantic love is there a guide post to knowing that are that are ready basically for dating and a new relationship again so I would say that walk for everyone is so different right I think if you're the one that's wanting the divorce and leaving the divorce you've had time to grieve you come out probably a little more ready.

Amanda West 32:18

Yeah that's a good point and if you're the one that doesn't want it in that brief time period it takes time to process all of that and get your feet back underneath you and feel old again. But I will say I think one of the biggest things that I would suggest after my lock and all of it is that you really take time to look back and to see where your thoughts were because it does not matter if the other person was 99.9% in the wrong there's still that point that you have something that you could have changed or done a little differently. So how will you take that lesson and apply it in the next relationship and are you really ready to step up and make changes so that the next relationship can be successful? What are you willing to do for success in a relationship? And I think those are things to think about. It's not just about jumping in and dating again right are you really ready to take on now you've experienced what marriage is and what it is to truly be with someone right and to be in a relationship full time and what the sacrificing yourself that it takes. Right? Yeah so are you truly ready to sacrifice that again and give someone everything that they need and putting them first for what is fully going to make a relationship successful.

Renee Richel 33:46

Which that right there is huge because I think so many times like we get into a relationship and we don't think about it from both sides, right? And then to own the mistakes I mean all of us could probably share things right that maybe we could have done differently or we could have been a better version of ourselves and wisdom always helps right with knowledge and things like that. But to also you know self-love which begins with just admitting that to somebody whether it be like therapy or whatever it is and seeking guidance is really important that you find something that also either yourself like you say reflection of saying okay what did I not do about Tony So I love that you say that because I know when we're interviewing people left and right and I'm like all right now let's get to the relationship history question right like and I wait to hear when I say now why did it lead to divorce when we have to ask that question right because three sides of the story there's theirs yours and guns right that witnessed it all and so that's a moment that I'm also wanting to hear their version of it. Are they emotionally ready or are they still struggling? Are they an idiot to not be that it was all the other person's fault because can they own things? So I think you know going through that and thinking about love again it's like I always say you know I don't diminish what I don't want people to share but like also what's your highlight reel is I also say and how well are you able to walk through that without crying without getting emotional but also complete forgiveness so that you're completely ready to open the door to somebody else because nobody needs your emotional baggage I hate to say it right or or lack of maturity of knowing yourself and what your worth is to stand up for what you don't want to repeat either.

Kerena Marie 35:41

Being a girl who walked abuse and abandonment and infidelity I um I'd say for those girlies out there who have walked that road um I think one of the things because I think it's so nuanced, right? Everyone's story is so different. And to me, I think about what makes you ready for dating again is I don't know. I think it's different for everybody of course like you guys had mentioned as well. But I think one of the things is knowing that the bad things that happened that you didn't choose are things that you didn't choose. So just because you were abused in your marriage it's not your fault because you got married to someone who abused you. Just because you got cheated on in your marriage, that doesn't mean it's actually your fault because you married someone who cheated on you. The Lord's real clear in scripture about you know testing people's hearts and seeing what choices each person are making. And so in this mystery and unity of you are now bound in one, you are also still separate humans made in God's image. And so I just want to give that message to the girls out there who walk abandonment and abuse and infidelity is just because you chose someone who chose those no good bad things doesn't mean that you chose those no good bad things. Those are separate choices. So I think like once you kind of release yourself also from the fault of oh well it's just all my fault because I chose an abuser. And I just like don't think that that's true. And so that's one thing. And then the other I'm such a squishy and emotional and tenderhearted lady that for me like I don't know if I'm ever going to not cry and become super soft and emotional. And so I just want to add to what you were saying as well Renee of um you and your people and God know where your heart is and where wholeness is and where you are in that journey. You don't need to be completely whole to enter a relationship that's never going to be real for anyone single, married divorced remarried whatever um that's going to be a lifelong journey of becoming whole um and uh you can be very expressive in your emotions and the Lord knows exactly and you know you can get help to know um where that's really healthy and where you need healing and where that's really helpful for vulnerability and where there needs to be growth. So I just want to add in that nuance too to the conversation.

Community, Care, And Practical Help

Renee Richel 38:10

Yeah I mean and I think everybody and I don't know if I mean anybody feels comfortable sharing but how long it's been too because I think as you're saying too the further you've moved from that right I'm now remarried myself right so it's like you know and not that that whatever makes the difference but I also think the amount of time it depends.

Kerena Marie 38:33

So like how long ago was your divorce Korean yeah my divorce was in 2023. So it's been three three years now.

Renee Richel 38:40

Okay. Yeah mine's been about six and a half years right and I'm four years of healing just because I had also attracted the same type just almost a different relationship and I'm a huge advocate about against domestic violence. But I also never healed before then I jumped into the next relationship but then I married because I was still not ready so I attracted the same type because it was better than at least the other one right and I and so I look at that as like I'm so blessed that I had four years to completely get to know myself completely heal and um that I was then putting myself out there ready to date right so it was like a it was like about six and a half years ago right so I right when I get into that next relationship I was long far past any of the patterns that we're still carrying in too. And then you obviously had gotten married then right since right to fall in love again. So the encouragement stories right as we we do um you know build back up right our our strength in in that too and then of course in the other house and the other trial of tribulation of of widowness right too which was a really tough time too. So okay so I appreciate you all sharing that and you know I I do say whether it's figuring out because really the question was is to know if you're ready like I know they say this and it sounds so cliche but you'll just know when you know I remember somebody saying that to me before I got married and there was a part of me that's like well I think I know but yet my fault was is we were only together knew each other for nine months. That is not long enough right it's just not so like take your time don't ever have the pressures like I remember when I got married I was like 20 I was what 31 so I was also like oh my gosh okay marry your best friend as a tiny was hardly we didn't know each other long. It's also like you're supposed to get married, be fruitful have a family your biological flock is taking all these bad reasons behind what then pushes you kind of down the aisle of the right decision right yeah that is that to then you know realize oh my goodness like God has a plan for you if you have children trying to figure out like when people come to us and I think they're naming their children already and like family like the right one first and for because the kids are among us and God could give you an orphanage of children that you will be a part of your community too right so um just focus on what the most important thing is your wholeness and who God has planned for you first. Does being the bride of Christ mean more to you now than it did prior to marriage in what way I think it definitely does funny.

Amanda West 41:41

Yeah it's a different understanding of what it is to have that wholeness and to have that intimate relationship and the royalty it is a completely you think that you understand it but it's it's like having a child experience once you have experience marriage and the relationship and and that commitment to one another and what it's like for all sorts of and then you realize that God is ultimately the only person on earth you're ever gonna have this 100% it's so complicated so many levels.

Kerena Marie 42:27

Yeah and to find somebody that believes and feels that same way is what I feel like we miss which is the foundation that roots that marriage in that regard uh yeah I would say for me my mom always told me growing up like Jesus is your bride which was super like awkward and weird and or Jesus is your groom and I was like that is so weird mom but now as a divorced girl I'm like yeah he is my groom and I am going to go to church and I'm gonna walk down that aisle every week because God is inviting me and saying my beloved bride I'm here take and receive me I'm not gonna force you to I'm not gonna be violent towards you I'm not gonna break my covenant with you no matter what and it's always an invitation and so I just I think of being the bride of Christ every time I'm like ascending down this aisle and receiving communion every week is Jesus is the bride or Jesus is the groom and I am his bride. And no matter my marital status literally forever I always get to be a bride and that's true of everybody everyone who walks singleness, marriage, divorce, remarriage everyone who walks this you always get to be a bride of Christ and that doesn't change based off of your marital status and he stays he doesn't threaten safety he keeps his vows So yeah, that's why I go to church is because I'm literally get to be the bride of Christ and that will never change and no one can take that from you.

Renee Richel 44:06

I love that. And that's such a good message because divorced or not, it's we're all the same, right?

Kerena Marie 44:12

Exactly.

Renee Richel 44:14

So I love, love that. Okay. What is the answer to prayer that's come to fruition since you first walked through the early days of divorce?

Healing Before Dating Again

Kerena Marie 44:24

Oh my gosh. I mean, the first one that jumps at me is help me. Like that's all I wrote down is help me. Because that's all I prayed. That's all I prayed for a year and a half was help me, help me, help me, help me. And now, you know, three years out, I look back and I'm like, oh my gosh, the Lord helped me. Like whether I saw it, whether I knew it, whether I felt it, whether I believed it, the Lord helped me. He rescued me. He kept me close to him. He brought me people who were gonna, you know, teach me again how to sleep again, how to eat again, how to read scripture again, and how to not, you know, have all these panic attacks all the time. And so I think that's the big thing that he answered is I just prayed help me. And he did. And it not perfectly, and everything's not fixed. And there's so much I still plead that question of help me, God. Um, but he did and he does and he will.

Amanda West 45:17

So often I had such a hard time thinking like the Bible says divorce is wrong. So how am I ever gonna be blessed again? There's this thing that's hearing in my prayers to the Lord help me to see that you do so long for me, that you're not disappointed in me. And we continue to do that over and over again. And I realized in time that just as we are with our children, are we happy sometimes when they never, not sometimes, but we're never happy when they make a decision that's not a good decision, right? Because we ultimately have those consequences that go with our choices, right? Right. Yes. And what do we do? We help them to learn from the mistake that they made so that they can mold and become a mature rounded person so that they can grow up into the light that God has for them. And ultimately, that's what God does with the mistakes and the sins that we make. If we are willing to ask for forgiveness and to move forward with it, he's gonna help mold us and he's gonna love us through it and take the sin and grow it into something that we can have a lesson learned from and turn it into something beautiful for his glory.

Renee Richel 46:36

100%. And I love that you use an example of children, right? Because we were all once children and loved us when we did wrongful things or didn't know or whatever, and they created and they loved us again. And so almost looking at that as you know, not the label of the big D that I always say, you know, nobody it's just that word in general everybody hates, but also looking at as like the correction to give us another opportunity. And with every sunrise and every sunset, day, like you were saying early when you're a green eyed. And so they also say if I didn't walk through every stuff that God knew I would take the three and areas he was like, okay, this is gonna take you a little bit longer now, or that this or that, then he also gave all three of us, right? A voice to uh inspire others that turned this into something more. So whether you're going through it and you're in the thick of it, like Kerena was mentioning, or you're kind of on the inside and you're navigating what to do, the truth of it is God will bring something from that interface. And I think I'm better in the marriage I have today, because of the things that I've also had to walk through and know, and you know, your worth and all these other things that you just don't even really think about when you're you're going through, you know, navigating somebody you don't maybe know their behaviors and things like that too, or vice versa, your own, right? So I love that. Um, okay, for those that feel awkward in social settings, going from being coupled up to single, what advice would you offer? Which I feel like we started this whole conversation around this. Um, so let's kind of circle it back around for anybody that's obviously in the very beginning of like, oh my gosh, if I take this ring off, here comes the floodgates of people.

Kerena Marie 48:34

Yes. I just think of like the jump scare of telling people, like just the absolute, you say anything and people either they're like they gasp, or you just see them like bug-eyed and you're like, and then you're like comforting them. You're like, no, like it's okay. But it's like you said a bad word, and everyone's like, ah. So um just you know, the jump scare goes away. If you're in the beginning, no one is thinking about it more more than you are. I promise. You are the person who's thinking about this the most. In one week, they're gonna see something sensational on Facebook and think about that and share that with their cousin. This is not gonna be sensational forever. So it's gonna be a jump scare sometimes, and then people are not gonna think about it. You don't owe anybody your story. You get to decide, like you didn't get to decide all the things that went down in your divorce, but you get to decide how you tell your story. So you get to choose like who you tell what and how much. And do you say it in a like playful way that just like, you know, can move the conversation along? Or do you pull someone aside and like deeply tell them what happened? And you get to decide, and that's totally your choice how to interact with that. Um, and then also your marital status is not the coolest thing about you, I promise. Like you have way other cool things like your hobbies, what God has called you to, and the ministries he's laid out for you. Um, so yeah, your marital status is actually not the coolest thing about you. Um, and it's a very cool thing, and also it's not the coolest thing about you. Um, yeah, and then I think the other thing is like have places where you can play and have joy. So, like for me, one of those was I made an Excel document of like really dumb, weird things people would say to me because it was like so sad and scary and terrible. But I made this Excel document and then I would go and have like debrief hangouts with my girlfriends and we would drink wine and be like, okay, guys, get this. I was at this place and this person said the same. And we could turn this like sad, awkward moment into something we could like, you know, have a little like laugh about, and so, you know, find ways to experience joy even amidst the like deeply, deeply awkwardness about it.

Renee Richel 50:53

I I love that because community is everything. Yeah.

Readiness, Responsibility, And Nuance

Amanda West 50:58

So I think as far as the awkwardness going from being a couple to being single, and then what friendships look like and what your social circle looks like, just like it changed when you became married, like you went from being single to going into couples, like it just naturally changes, right? And unfortunately, when you go from being a couple to single, again, it naturally changes. But I think at that point you've developed friendships too that some are going to stick for the long haul that are couples. And think of it this way: when you're the one that's the couple, is it awkward to have a single person around? No, I mean you you love that person, that's your friend, right? So stop critiquing it and being in your own head in every level because everyone's probably not thinking all the things you think they're thinking. They love you and they want to support you and just be around you. They're happy you're out and being social. And as we go back to being the comment about being God's bride, remember that you're never alone. And honestly, even worse and more after losing my husband, I had to remind myself when I would walk into family scenarios, not family scenarios, that I was not alone and that God was righteous. I was not the on ball out. Right. So just remember that God is with you, even in the most uncomfortable of circumstances. You're not alone.

Renee Richel 52:33

Right. And the only one that you want to impress is the Lord, right? Because he will carry you through all of it. So just trust in him with all your mind, and he will take away that awkwardness or whatever it is, or whatever feelings. And I know myself personally, I didn't want to share with anybody. I was so I was embarrassed, right? So I was every day. I would have like I didn't have a prayer room necessarily, but I would always every day when I would pray, I was like, I'm gonna talk to the Lord every day. Like I'm talking to my best friend because I loved I was starting your in your friend group does change, and now you're finding you're talking to other people that are divorced, which a whole different group of people, right? But um, you really do start to know who the ones that are gonna be there for not because you were a couple, but also for yourself. So you're just gonna hang on to those relationships. And I always felt like because you don't, you know, sometimes when your community is too big and they're not for you, then they're too opinionated, which then are gonna get in your head so many things that are not true. And I always felt myself personally by sharing less, and of course, being in the role in the light of what I do for a living as well. I also felt like the Lord was giving me the strength, and there was nobody better than him having safety that could get me there, right? And so, you know, everybody has a little bit of different way of obviously how they they walk through it. But I do love that you said because if there's people out there that have children, because I remember like, oh my gosh, my poor child. And to me, I was more like, how do I think this through for in 15, 10 years from now that's gonna be best for my kid that's not for us, right? And how do we, you know, I mean, there's certain things you pick and choose, like, okay, this isn't worth it or it is or whatever, but also it's important that you navigate this maturely, right? So the feelings behind things for the sake of a child that goes through it. And I'll never forget that day when I actually went through the divorce and I had to give one minute of my moment up with my precious little one. I wrote her a letter and I started an email chain. And I write on these little love letters that when she graduates someday from college, I'll give to her. Honestly, someday you'll understand I'm doing stuff for you and that other person, because you'll have a chance of what true love looks like instead of staying in a marriage that's not healthy. So I can't tell you how these stories people I have witnessed and heard thousands of people that have gone through this. And I think they will wait and they will wait and they will like, and like you are also scarring your child to witness this abuse that when we work with younger and younger kids today that are in their 20s that have gone through these toxic scenarios, they don't know because they've never witnessed healthy love. Yeah. There comes a moment where you're like, especially when you have a child involved in this, like this is not healthy to have to witness this unconditional love, right? Um, so you also have to remember like it's not about just yourself. Safety is number one, I agree with you, relationship, but you also have to do what's right in the future for when you do have a kid involved in the conversation. Although today, we are going to continue this conversation. I wish we could have everybody together, but I feel like we wouldn't have an we had seven of us or about three of six of us grow together, we would never be able to get through everybody's questions. So we're so blessed, Kerena, that you've done the conversations. We always tell our audience, please write in if you want to know anything more. We will obviously include, you know, your information obviously in our notes as well. Um, to continue and go into part two of this. And we'll be uh meeting with some people from One True Match as well that have also walked through this and kind of talking about what it's like in the dating age and era of going through this too. So I'm so grateful for both of you sharing your story and inspiring women every day that I also do feel it's so important, you know, that we have that community of love and support because you're never alone and somebody through it at some point. So like find them, seek them, become your best version of yourself. So you're setting yourself up to be the best version for your future mate. Uh, and vice versa, pray for him that he is going through maybe not the same exact place as you or scenario, but yet that he is preparing himself for you as well. So and we are grateful. We hope you have a blessed week and can't wait for our next chat next week.

Kerena Marie 57:25

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Renee Richel 57:34

It's been another great talk on this episode of 1 True Talks by Renee Richel. I look forward to our next chat. Please write in your questions and comments so I can be sure to talk about whatever it is you want to discuss in our next upcoming episode. Lots of love. God Bless. XOXO