Gender•ish with Kemi & Nnedi
Ever wonder how stereotypes can be limiting? Join hosts Kemi and Nnedi on this podcast as they explore the impact of stereotypes In our quest for a fair and balanced society. Through engaging discussions inspired by real-life experiences, expert insights, and observations from our ever-evolving world, Kemi and Nnedi will challenge prevailing gender stereotypes, one episode at a time.
Founder & Creator: Kemi Gbadamosi - 2023
Gender•ish with Kemi & Nnedi
11. We Are Back! Reflections and Shifts
We’re back, and we’ve missed you! We've experienced significant shifts in our lives these past months, and as we kick off this season, we’ll reflect on them along with some key moments from Season 2. For example, what if the phrases meant to “toughen up” men are causing more harm than good? How do gender expectations shape our finances, family dynamics, and experiences with gender-based violence? This season, we’ll dive into gender stereotypes, complex relationships—like the often tricky dynamic between mothers-in-law and daughters-in-law—and evolving roles in marriage. Expect insights from special guests, perspectives from our community, and candid conversations that matter.
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To join the conversation, pose a question, or share your experience with negative gender stereotypes, please write to us at genderishp@gmail.com. Follow us on social media at genderishp on Instagram and @genderishp on X .
Remember, a just and equitable world is possible if we all play our part without discrimination or bias.
This podcast is produced by Crown City Studios.
Creator: Oluwakemi Gbadamosi
so in three, two, one, hello everyone. The genderish crew is back for season three, and I know this is we've been away for some time, but it's never late. They say better late than never, right? Yes, there's. There's just been a lot happening, uh, between neddy and I and just our lives in general, but then again, it's a good thing to be back. We've been moving and shifting, but the good thing is we are back, and so this is the podcast that is designed to challenge harmful gender stereotypes, one conversation at a time. And it's your girl, kemi, and I'm joined by Nnedi Welcome back guys.
Speaker 1:Yes, season three. And thank you for everyone who has continued to download and listen to our podcast despite the fact that we've been away for so long, but we promise that is the longest that we will ever be away again, Right, Nelly?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, guys, we promise not to stay away too long. It was just due to a lot of life updates.
Speaker 1:Yes, our lives have updated very significantly.
Speaker 2:Yes, and positively, if we might add that bit Exactly Very positively too.
Speaker 1:So, nnedi, now that this is our first episode for season three, I think it's just tradition for us. We tend to look back at the previous season and just analyze some of our high points, and a lot has happened since season two wrapped in the wall. So much going on and we'll get into that, but what were some of your key highlights from season two?
Speaker 2:Oh, my God Off the top of my head immediately. Why Can't Men Cry?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I love that one too. Yes, why Can't Men Cry? That was a good episode with Will Obi and KC was a good. That was a good episode with obi and casey.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was a beautiful episode because it was really, it was interesting and it was eye-opening hearing men, yeah, his emotions from their own perspective. One thing, if I remember correctly, when casey was saying something about why is this one like this? It's like an egg, yeah, and it got me thinking. You know, I actually thought women were the ones who were prone to having such. I know people would think, you know they were, you know, ascribing something delicate to the women, but these names are also somewhat derogatory, you know.
Speaker 1:And yes, yes, very derogatory, because they're never said in a positive light. Exactly, they're never said in a positive light, so it has a negative undertone to it.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then it goes along to affect, you know, the personality of the child. In this case it is the boy child. You know it chips away at who they are at, who you know they have the potential to. You know. It chips away at who they are at, who you know they have the potential to be. You know, and if care is not taken they become something else. You know, something they never dreamt of being, and I'm glad that Casey said he eventually took the lessons in that and transformed himself and owned.
Speaker 1:You know his softness, exactly, so yeah, yeah, that was a very powerful point from that sharing. It was the fact that there's nothing wrong with being soft and delicate. Everybody can be hard right, regardless of what gender they have, and it's okay to embrace people. It's okay to acknowledge that people are going to be different. And another thing that came out from that episode also was the role that families played and just how, even when Obi was sharing, how he engages, tries to engage with communities to change the stereotypes, because when you label people or label children, even from the family, and the need for men to also recognize that women can also be assertive, they can be tough and it's okay. It's not supposed to be a strike against the woman if she's assertive, if she's tough. Neither is it a strike against the man if he chooses to be soft and delicate I think at the end of this, having a good balance, a good mix of individualities, of personalities, that allows the world to be wholesome and not just a situation where people are boxed into certain roles or boxed into certain stereotypes. And even in that conversation as well, there was the discussion about it's okay for men to show emotions and the talk about suicide rates amongst men, men not having safe spaces and having to bottle up so much. And that's because, right from when they are young, they are told that you have to be hard, you have to man up, and we've seen that phrases such as man up have gone on to make life so difficult for a lot of men. So it becomes counterproductive to tell a man to man up, but rather to encourage men to share, encourage men to find safe spaces and, even when men do cry, to not shame them for it but celebrate it as a form of strength, because it's an emotion that should be expressed. It shouldn't be suppressed at all. So, yeah, I liked that conversation it reminded me of.
Speaker 1:I recently attended some series of summits and sessions, and one of the sessions I attended a video was shown about like a girl. I think it's a video on YouTube about like a girl. I think it's a it's a video on youtube something like a girl, and they were asking men and boys what does it mean to cry like a girl or fight like a girl? And they were all being so animated, almost like weak making. The gestures were like weak gestures. What does it mean to run like a girl? And they were running like they couldn't run. And in my head I'm thinking okay, we have the likes of Simone Biles and we have the likes of Serena Williams, sha'carri Richardson, who don't look like they don't do. They're not softy like that, they take no prisoners Right.
Speaker 1:And then the other side of the video, they asked the girl like what does it mean to run? How? What does it mean to run like a girl? And the girls were running, they were sprinting almost the same way a man would sprint, exactly as a man would sprint. And then they asked another one what does it, what does it mean to run like a girl? And she said it means to run as fast as I can and like yeah, that's how it should be. It should never be seen as weak, because most times when people say like a girl, the men.
Speaker 1:They later interviewed them again and they said you know what the young boy said. I can say that to another girl, but I don't want that to be said about my sister. So of course, it means that it's not an opposite. Yes, it's not a positive. So the thing about why can't men cry I'll encourage our listeners to go back and listen to it. There's nuggets that came out of there and the lessons and things that every young boy needs to hear and even girls to need to listen to, and hopefully our world can create safer spaces where men are able to share very safely and men don't hold on to toxic masculinity traits and ideologies of what they think a man should be a man can be anything and everything.
Speaker 1:So yes, yes, okay, so what was the next one we talked about? Um?
Speaker 2:gender, gender roles, gender equality in business and finance. I believe that was with a belly and and jack.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I like that. They did put a positive outlook and spin on the fact that we are making progress, especially for a place like Nigeria. We've had, even more recently, more female CEOs of banks named, so that's a good thing, but I think for me, the takeaway there was it's good that we're trying to focus're focusing a lot on parity, but we need to ensure that the quality really trickles down. When it barely talked about how a lot of women don't enroll you, don't have accounts and she tries to encourage them. You should know your, your books, you should know your accounts.
Speaker 1:You should know your money, because that's a way that you get financially literate and empowered to help us even the playing field. I thought that was that was really good, that there's someone out there who is also passionate as much as every other person.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of, there's a lot of conversation now around you know, like the likes of high economy harvest, focusing on women and trying to get women to invest more, to be financially literate, to take on more, take up space in the financial sector, in fintech groups. We're seeing women come up. I think that's good, but yeah, like we always say, there's still so much work to be done. But those are really good insights. I'm glad that they helped us realize that we're making so much progress.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were honestly. And I think the greatest takeaway for me was I think it kind of ties in with when we had Shema on the.
Speaker 2:World on the Street episode and she was like oh, when there are opportunities, it's. It's sad that women just don't apply. So it was the same thing that Ebenezer was trying to say. Like, when it comes to economics, we find out that women all we think that we're good for are the small businesses, the micro enterprises, and we were so limited in our thinking that we don't even think to standardize these businesses. We don't register them, we don't keep books, we don't. You know we don't. We don't keep accounts. You know it's. In most households the woman's business is seen as the business that feeds the family. You know the money if they're in the petty cash, the petty cash, yeah, or the family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or they deal with like what we call provision stores in Nigeria.
Speaker 1:Yes, informal sector as well, they love women in the informal sector.
Speaker 2:Informal sectors and it turns they kind of turn these businesses into the pantry for families, where you're hungry, you just go grab from mommy's business and yeah then, just so it's, it's eye opening. Some will say, oh the, the feminists said the women have to be served, they have to know because, god forbid, something happens yeah what becomes of the woman.
Speaker 2:so it's important when we talk about gender I think this is a good point to reiterate again what our goal for this podcast is parity. It's not because we are fighting to be of equal physical strength with men. That's not what we mean.
Speaker 1:We're talking about opportunities access.
Speaker 2:We're talking about opportunities access, leveling the playing field so that, at every point in time, one person can step into the other's shoes and, yeah, they'll take the reins and there is no gap felt. That's true. That's why we're doing this, that's why we're spreading this message, that's why we're, you know, exploring, looking into different sectors of our lives, different areas of our society, but highlight how gender parity could help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, and another thing I liked about that episode was the fact that it did also highlight ways in which gender stereotypes and roles right from the home, the society also influences the financial and the business sector, and how much women take up, or how much men take up. And when Jack talked about the fact that women are, they're considered for certain roles because the belief is that they are the ones that are better organizers, and that's the thing. It's the thing at home, it's women who are the notchers, the women who puts everything together, cleans up after everybody else, but we see that at the same time, they're also men who can do the same thing who are?
Speaker 1:equally organized, who are meticulous about how they want things to be, and it's just showing that the more we continue to put people in boxes, the harder it is for them to leave their full potential.
Speaker 1:I I liked the, the exploration of business and finance and the fact that, yes, we've done well, we were getting more CEOs. That's good, but how does that translate on the ground? Because usually that's where there's a lot of the challenge. But even within the workforce, even if you have a female CEO, is she accorded the same respect as a male CEO is accorded? Is she also regarded within her rights of her intelligence, her knowledge, her experience, her expertise? Or do people look at her and say, oh, that's another woman, we're just trying to make more women get into the space? Exactly, does she get the same support and just without the bias of her gender? Is she giving that same regard as a male CEO would be given? So that's also another thing. Like when you share about the mission behind the podcast is to say that we need to also change the biases. The biases, the perceptions that we have the stereotypes that we have.
Speaker 1:That makes it impossible for certain people to be to thrive in certain roles. Because you could have a female ceo of a bank but you will see that she probably struggles way harder than a man would, because she's also trying to, you know she's been conditioned as well and, you know, get respect.
Speaker 1:There's also the conditioning of oh, a woman shouldn't be too tough, you shouldn't be, shouldn't be assertive, you should. You know you should always play nice, but we know that you can't always play nice. So uh, in, in the sense that you have to get the job done based on what you bring to the table in terms of your skills and your expertise. People are not. I don't see people question men oh, what did you accomplish for you to be able to get to this position?
Speaker 1:So, on one hand, there's a lot of good happening, but we also know that the work is never done, at least not yet, so we'll keep at it. Another episode that I liked I think all the episodes were good for season two. They were great. I like the beats on gender-based violence with. Gladys.
Speaker 2:The men's health, HIV AIDS.
Speaker 1:Yes, Gosh, the statistics were mind-boggling, my God, I know, I know, and just GBV, how also gender-based violence is accommodated and tolerated within our societies and people make excuses for them. And it just brings me to the whole conversation that's been happening the past months on femicide. Whether Nigeria likes it or not, we have a crisis of femicide, yes, and it's not just Nigeria, even Africa. The case of the, the Ugandan athlete who was um set on fire by, yeah, but her boyfriend was his set of fire.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that one. And then there was also the case in Nigeria the young lady who was killed by a friend of hers who she had known for a while, and he buried her somewhere in the house. In the case of femicide and women just crying out and saying that we are not safe, yes, I don't think a lot of men understand the mental gymnastics a woman has to do if she has to go out at night right, or go out in the evening.
Speaker 2:Before we even get to the night part, the daytime, women are getting snatched off the streets during the day. I know the catcalling, all those things. At workplaces. A lot of women are not safe because people just come. You know when I say people, men, you know, come in and make some overtures. Yeah, yeah, over the decades, over the centuries, where acceptable norms but they're no longer acceptable, you know, and people need to understand these things. You know, just because you see a woman in a certain position, in a certain whatever, it doesn't give you the right to make crass jokes. It doesn't give you the right to ask her or just suspect her of what she did to get there, you know. So, no, these things are not right. I don't think a lot of our men understand how. No, these things are not right a lot. I don't think a lot of our men understand how difficult these things are, how, how, you know, women are literally fighting every day for their lives, just for some. Take them seriously absolutely I.
Speaker 1:You know something you said here. Good thing is, as we go into season three, we're going to be exploring, yes, a lot of issues, and we'll go into that very soon just what the listeners should look forward to. But what you were talking about, even in the workplace, and how setting and how women sometimes are seen as you've only achieved this because you have to do something unethical to get there, or you had to do something that, or you basically had to sleep with a man to get there.
Speaker 2:You never hear that about men when men promoted at work, nobody ever says, oh, you got to the top because you sleep with a man to get there. You never hear that about men. When men get, promoted at work.
Speaker 1:Nobody ever says, oh, you got to the top because you slept with a woman. But it goes back to even the conversations we've had on the podcast, even in season two, about the stereotypes. Women were never raised for a long time to aspire to much and it's also tying the successes, the need for patriarchy to constantly tie the successes of women to men. So people don't want to acknowledge women for their own work and their hard work and their intelligence and intellect and expertise. They always want to tie to a man. Oh, you couldn't have made it that far if you didn't have a man.
Speaker 1:But a lot of women are defying that to say, I actually worked to get to this point. And that also tells us that even as we raise young men, it is to raise young men who understand that this is not 1936 or 1925. In this era women are working hard. So you need to recognize that it is possible for a woman to be a governor, to be a mayor, to be a president, it is possible for a woman to be a CEO and that her only responsibility is not just tied to the home front. And that's why the learning on learning and relearning, starting from the family, is very important because it would also raise men to be comfortable with women who are successful and vice versa, and it it would also make women we don't have to defend no our qualifications or or attainment whether in the workplace.
Speaker 2:You know we don't have to, yes, or our goals, we don't. We don't have to, um, second guess ourselves. Thank you you Every time, you know. But we need to boldly start reaching for things and know that we're capable of whatever it is that we set our minds to without having to, you know, have this fear somewhere at the back of our minds or second guess ourselves every step of the way.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and it's not every woman who's at the top that had to sleep away there. Many had working women, many had working women doing good stuff who are actually very smart.
Speaker 1:So I think people need to recognize that, and it starts from the home.
Speaker 1:So I like how all the topics tend to interconnect and intertwine, because the discussion on GBV is something that we need to keep talking about. We're now in a time of our lives where there is a shift in how things used to be. We now have women who are more aware of the possibilities that are available to them. They are reaching for that, they are aspiring for that. They are aspiring for that, but we seem to have men who are still stuck not all men, but a lot of men who are still stuck in the stone age idea of a woman's role and a man's role. I'm very excited because I was reading the book Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg and they did do a lot of research on how gender roles and gender stereotypes even impact men and men's output and also women. I think we'll talk about it as we go on, but it's it's just saying that we need to continue to do the work in educating and informing people and also ourselves, because sometimes we get caught in our own biases.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's the power of socialization and conditioning, because sometimes you think, oh, my mind is so progressive.
Speaker 2:But then again you get caught realize yeah, when you're faced with a cross, when you come to a fork in the road, a cross, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, okay but the difference is that you now recognize that, oh, that's a, that's a that's a bias I have, and it shouldn't be anyway season two was good it was. It was really great, just great about this whole thing, and and season three is even going to be better if we say so ourselves so yes, neddy. Do you want to let our listeners know what to expect for season three? Some of the topics we'll be exploring, but still how they intersect with stereotypes oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So this season three is going to focus heavily on the family dynamics. So we're going to start with relationships in the family, gender roles, particularly exploring the topic of in-laws. Yeah, mother-in-laws, daughter in-laws is it always, you know, the the bad stories? Are there good experiences? Are there great experiences? What role should be assigned to everyone? You know, when it comes to marriages, when it comes to families, how do we make this work? How do we reduce, you know, the ratios of the horrible stories that we hear, of the horrible experiences? How do we make these things better? Because, whether we like it or yes, we're not putting this world to, to, to the islands to exist by ourselves.
Speaker 1:No, relationships no relationships are.
Speaker 2:You know, they are the foundation of everything that we do in life. So how do we make these relationships better? Because when we build strong, beautiful relationships in the family circle, it affects the society, affects workplaces, it affects how, affects the economies. That's why we're starting with this, that with this topic, yeah absolutely nanny the the issue of mothers-in-law and daughters-in-law.
Speaker 1:It's also because we've seen a lot of feedback and people reaching out as well to explore that, because what a lot of people don't know is that a lot of the and people reaching out as well to explore that, because what a lot of people don't know is that a lot of the challenges we have in the relationships between mothers-in-law and daughters-in-law stems from the stereotypes.
Speaker 2:The gender stereotypes that are set in the families that's what a lot of people don't know that.
Speaker 1:Yes, why is it that fathers-in-law and sons-in-law get along so well? Beautiful relationships they go drink beer together, but when you hear challenges, it's mostly mothers-in-law and daughters-in-law at at loggerheads all the time.
Speaker 1:Why, why, why can't we have such beautiful relationships? But, like netty said, there are actually really beautiful relationships. But, like Nettie said, there are actually really beautiful relationships between mothers-in-law and daughters-in-law, and we would be exploring those relationships and the things that you can learn from there, because we want families to be whole. We want people to feel joy and feel love. Marriage is a beautiful thing. It should bring families together, so what better way than to also have holistic, wholesome, respectful relationships, even within the family units? All right, so, and the next thing we'll be talking- about neri.
Speaker 2:Well, we'll delve into femicides because it's it's. It's sad that in 2024, almost 25.
Speaker 2:We're still having these issues, yeah, but we're still having people who are so threatened by their fears Fears that are born from horrible and harmful stereotypes and then they allow these fears to heighten to a point where it bursts into anger, and then the anger becomes an uncontrollable fire and then they do damage. That is why we're having femicides up and down. So we will delve into these topics, we will address, you know, the emotions behind this. We will address the harmful stereotypes. We'll question this when on earth do people get these ideas from? What drives them into committing such atrocious acts? So we'll explore, we'll do justice to the uh, to the subject of femicides, and hopefully we can, you know, change the dynamics and get yeah, make- our world safer yeah, where women are safe, where men are safe in their masculinity, they don't harm any woman.
Speaker 1:Just to prove a point absolutely and we'll also be exploring marriage yeah, the constant discussions around marriage and just marital dynamics in terms of the roles the stereotypes can play, yes, with we'll be looking at special guests who'll be joining us.
Speaker 1:We don't want you to miss any episode, because there are a lot of myths and just wrong ideologies about how marriages should be, especially when it comes to the relationships between men and women in a marriage, or husband and wife gender roles in marriage, and especially in a time where the world is evolving, a time where there is such change in the economic landscape, the social landscape of our societies and of our world, how can families also evolve and without feeling like there is a threat to either masculinity or femininity? What does it mean to be truly partners? What does that really mean? And what does it really mean to support each other within marriages, disrupting the status quo in a way that is healthy and empowering for families? What does that mean? So we're going to be exploring that as well. You see, gender stereotypes feeds into everything, everything.
Speaker 1:Everything, and everything.
Speaker 1:So those are some of the things we'll be talking about, and not forgetting our word on the street yes, yes, I saw something, uh that apropos doctor had put and he said we don't want a bro code that encourages violence and you know, we want a bro code that holds men accountable. Yes, so we're going to be looking at some interesting comments and feedback that have come out from the streets. We'll be hearing from people, and neddy and I will be just analyzing them and also sharing our perspectives, backing them up as well with some thoughts around how we can contribute to make our world a safer world, more equitable, what that?
Speaker 1:no it's filled with justice, because everybody deserves that, regardless of who they are yes, yes, can we?
Speaker 2:yes, all right, so invite you all to stay tuned in. Please go back to our prior episodes just to refresh your minds about what this whole podcast is all about, and hopefully we like to think that we've managed to sway you from a handful of stereotypes that you held in the past, and we hope that you come along with us on this journey for this new season. Tell a friend to tell a friend to tell a friend, tell your family, tell everyone. Share our episodes. We promise you a very exciting time, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And on that note, we have come to the end of episode one of season three.
Speaker 2:We really need to buy that bell.
Speaker 1:Yes we have to. All right everyone. We really need to buy that bell. Yes, we have to. All right everyone. So thank you for joining neddy and I on today's episode and we look forward to the next episode, where we will be talking about their mother-in-law. And don't forget to follow us on. You can follow us on instagram, at genderishp, as well as on xspace formerly known as Twitter genderishpodcast on there as well, and please send us an email on genderishp at gmailcom If you have comments, questions, feedback or need certain areas of clarity, or even have questions for some of our guests that have been on the show, and we'll make sure to get it across to them Until we come your way again. Remember that a just and equitable world is possible if we all need our life. Bye, Thank you guys. Bye-bye.