Ever wondered how to turn chitchat into a potent sales tool? That's where we take the conversation next. With riveting stories and hard-earned insights, Phillip and I dissect how savvy communication opens doors in sales, shaping outcomes one conversation at a time. We explore the finesse of small talk, how tuning into emotional cues can be a game-changer, and even bring Chris Voss into the mix to upgrade your negotiation playbook. For anyone who's ever doubted the link between skilled dialogue and sales success, prepare to have those doubts silenced.
We wrap things up by taking an introspective route, examining the very fabric of personal growth, mentorship, and the relentless pursuit of dreams. This is no run-of-the-mill chat; it's a candid look at the beauty and struggle of balancing life's demands while chasing what sets your soul on fire. Sharing personal stories, we navigate the often bumpy road from the safety of the familiar to the thrill of the unknown, all while nurturing the seeds of success on our own terms. If you've ever needed a sign to step boldly in the direction of your dreams, consider this your clarion call.
Connect with me!
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/js_shoez_/
X: https://twitter.com/Shoeinvestor2
TikTok: tiktok.com/@thewater_boy_official
Youtube: https://youtube.com/@justinshoemaker9582?si=DSsbCeNl1kgH3EKK
LinkedIn: Justin Shoemaker
Ever wondered how to turn chitchat into a potent sales tool? That's where we take the conversation next. With riveting stories and hard-earned insights, Phillip and I dissect how savvy communication opens doors in sales, shaping outcomes one conversation at a time. We explore the finesse of small talk, how tuning into emotional cues can be a game-changer, and even bring Chris Voss into the mix to upgrade your negotiation playbook. For anyone who's ever doubted the link between skilled dialogue and sales success, prepare to have those doubts silenced.
We wrap things up by taking an introspective route, examining the very fabric of personal growth, mentorship, and the relentless pursuit of dreams. This is no run-of-the-mill chat; it's a candid look at the beauty and struggle of balancing life's demands while chasing what sets your soul on fire. Sharing personal stories, we navigate the often bumpy road from the safety of the familiar to the thrill of the unknown, all while nurturing the seeds of success on our own terms. If you've ever needed a sign to step boldly in the direction of your dreams, consider this your clarion call.
Connect with me!
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/js_shoez_/
X: https://twitter.com/Shoeinvestor2
TikTok: tiktok.com/@thewater_boy_official
Youtube: https://youtube.com/@justinshoemaker9582?si=DSsbCeNl1kgH3EKK
LinkedIn: Justin Shoemaker
Well, here we go. Phillip, my man, how you doing, brother?
Speaker 2:Hey, I'm good how about you, justin Dude.
Speaker 1:I like this. I was on your podcast and I was like super competitive, like I gotta get you on mine now as fast as I could, because you asked me too many questions. I'm like I gotta get back on, gotta get Phillip back on so you find more about what he's doing. So thank you. Thanks for joining man. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm excited to be here, excited to be on your podcast now. That's a beautiful thing about podcasts, where you can do a swap and everything. You can get questions asked about yourself so people can learn about you on theirs and vice versa.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, man, I'm super excited. So how about you tell everybody what you're doing? I know, when we spoke offline I really enjoyed speaking with you. Gotta turn off the audio. Jesus Broke a mistake. I really enjoyed speaking with you on your last podcast. But tell everyone what you're doing. I know you're still working a nine to five job, but I see a post in about all kinds of different stuff online. What are your hustles? What are you getting after right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the biggest thing is just putting people on my virtual stage. It's probably my biggest push right now, so you're actually gonna be on it. This will probably air after, but I'm wanting to put 250 people on my virtual summit. So I'm called the Speaking Sessions Virtual Summit, speaking Sessions being the name of my podcast, my business, all of that good stuff, and so I want to give people an opportunity, even though it's for 10 minutes. Some people may say that's nothing. Other people may say wow, it's a lot.
Speaker 2:But I want to give people the opportunity to be able to speak, because for you to get on at stages to speak, more people need to see you, and so I want to give that opportunity for people to at least get some kind of exposure on there. And it's definitely not a pay-to-play thing. There's plenty of people at pay to go speak on a stage, which kind of blows my mind there. I can understand some of them, but there's that. I've got a digital course. I'm working on my book for speaking, so I've got my book here on Mindset, but my next book is going to be on public speaking and so going through my journey with that giving tactics to be able to help you with public speaking and then just doing webinars, newsletters on LinkedIn, email newsletter once a month. Do my email I can't even say the word right now my email list. There we go.
Speaker 2:So many different things, but, yeah, definitely working on a lot of stuff and working on some internal communications curriculum as well, because I've noticed with small business owners that, while speaking is a good thing, internal communications will help them as a company as a whole. So I want to really help holistically not just the business owner or the people wanting you on stage, but also the small businesses, because that's one thing that the larger corporations do well. That the small businesses don't do well is have that internal communication set up. This is how you handle these certain things a lot of times, and so I want to be able to give that structure to the small businesses. So those are just several other things that I'm working on right now.
Speaker 1:No, that's awesome. I mean it's funny because I think public speaking, out of all things that people do, is one of the most underutilized tools, especially if like business and sales. So what made you get into that? And actually, first of all, what are you doing right now for your nine to five Like? Is it related to speaking at all? Like, did that help you at all or did you just found a passion in it? Like, what was that segue?
Speaker 2:So when I first started doing it, I was doing more of an engineering role, doing programming Actually, I was in programming and then I got an opportunity to go to HR development department and then they stuck me with presentation skills development and that's where it kind of clicked for me Because I had been speaking, I was doing fitness coaching, decided I wanted something different. I was thinking of the leadership route, because I've been able to lead teams and lead people and everything and always been that leader by example and posture syndrome got in the way. And then when I got in that role, they put me in the speaking skills or presentation skills development. I thought, hmm, that makes a lot of sense. If this large company needs help with that and they want to create something like that, I could go create that for myself and help other people as well, because I want to get better at speaking, I want to get on stages and everything, and so this was probably about two and a half to three years ago I LLC'd my company February of 2022. So coming up on two years of starting that business and everything.
Speaker 2:And so I am now in a project management role within BMW, where I do deal with a lot of communications.
Speaker 2:So that's where it's a lot of that structure and this kind of internal communication thing comes in, because I realize how I can run my projects a lot smoother than a lot of other people and make sure that we are communicating it on the same page, based on the structure that I set up and so kind of putting that all together. I want to be able to help other people with that. So speaking does help me with my project management. It helps me with being able to get raises, it helps me in my personal life, it helps really everywhere, and I actually just preached last Sunday at church and everything, and this is my third time and people were just like, oh my gosh, you were so good. And it's because I've had that experience. I've been working on it and I guess it is tuning my own horn a little bit. I mean I'm better than a lot of the other guys there because I have been speaking outside of just the random time and just over time. Learning how to articulate a message has helped me in many areas of my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's. You know, people can be pretty dumb, but if they could speak really well, you're gonna think they're just way smarter than they are. And honestly, for like any industry like obviously sales has a drastic correlation to be able to speak well. It's one of the biggest things that I've been trying to improve myself on, because the better you can just say the same message in a better way, the more turns you get on a sale, the more smart people think you are. As I try to sound smart right now I'm saying words like smarter, so I'm not really working out too well, but no, I think that's amazing. I think, and it's funny because until you put that pressure on you and I know for a lot of people they don't actually get that opportunity until they get into a management position.
Speaker 1:I know for me, you know that's one thing that the Navy was kind of cool with is if you're a hard worker, you get elevated pretty quickly and pretty soon. You're giving directions and doing trainings in front of people, and I was a field training officer for every command I went to. So part of your job is getting in front of a small group, mind you, but you're still training and it's pretty nerve-wracking, at least for me and I think for most people it's pretty nerve-wracking and I think it's definitely a skill worth having, even if, like you said, even if you're like in a W-2 job and you're not in sales. The ability to articulate your words is so important and especially nowadays no one has that anymore, like it is dying off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'll say salespeople are ones that I find the hardest to really talk to and help them understand this, because they're good at just having a conversation, they're good at just talking, they're comfortable with talking, and that's a great thing. If you're not comfortable with talking, if you're not comfortable with having a random conversation with somebody, definitely a great first step. But what I see with a lot of salespeople is that they have this confidence which almost turns into ego, because like, well, I've got no problem talking to people, I've got no problem just talking about anything. But the problem is you're not very concise on what you're speaking about and then you're not speaking to the person how they want to speak. It's kind of like a love language. So if you are an acts of service, that's your love language. Yet I'm trying to spend quality time with you. You're like, well, what the crap, philip, why do you keep spending so much time with me? Like you're really annoying, leave me alone. But if I was to come in and start like, oh hey, here's this, here's this, here's this, you're like dude, philip's on point. I like this guy, I like having him around and everything. And so learning how to communicate with the person or people is so important, no matter what role really.
Speaker 2:But that's what I find where salespeople really end up lacking, because they just think, oh, I'm comfortable talking and having a conversation, but they don't think about how can I speak to this person in this way? And then, on top of that, when you get better at speaking, typically you get better at listening as well. It's how you're starting to hear things of what the person's saying. But you're seeing how they're looking, you're hearing how they articulate that word. Are they starting to get really irritated? Are they getting pissed off? Are they really excited? When you get those cues because you've gotten better at speaking and understand the different emotions and how to create those emotion and cues you can listen and see that and now your cells are gonna get better, your communication's gonna get better Because you're seeing it in other people, even if they're not trained.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. It's such a skill being able to even hold a conversation, so it might be a little different for outside sales but, like in-home sales especially, I have found after you've done it for a while, you tend to have the same conversations over and over and over again.
Speaker 1:Hey, nice house, oh you're. And the ability to be able to take a conversation and, to your point, chain it together and make it sound engaging and be able to listen is super important. Like that, small talk skill for an in-home sales is nice because you actually build a ton of rapport on autopilot, because I can't tell you how many times it'll just be, someone says something and it's like oh, you have a dog, oh, ask about this dog. And really comes down to simple things. Just ask good questions and then follow up. Don't be like a dead fish when, if you ever had like a bad day before, you're like hey, how's your meal? Good, ah, sweet, all right, cool.
Speaker 2:I guess I wanna see. Yeah, I guess I'll just sit here. Then yeah, yeah, yeah. Damn, those are tough. I've had when I was in the dating world. That's how it was for me with some girls. I'm like man, maybe it's just texting, maybe it'll be better on the date, and then it's the same or worse on the date, like how do they even have, how do they function in life? Like we can't even have a conversation at all.
Speaker 2:So I'm kind of curious if you have that, let's go down this route real quick. What do you do to help spark that conversation, because obviously you don't wanna go through and just ask like 20 random questions until they finally start actually opening up. But what kind of tactics do you use to try and make sure you pinpoint something that will get them to open up?
Speaker 1:Like if I'm dating or if I'm gonna help.
Speaker 2:I would say like in sales.
Speaker 1:Let's go with, like you, and you're in doing it in-home sales conversation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't ask you about date.
Speaker 1:I've been married for too long.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, we're all the guys talk to you about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no way I'm off that train, yeah, so sales is funny. I think most homeowners they like to talk about themselves. Most humans have some sort of ego, so it can be tough. I mean, it depends on the person. But if you go in, I always like to start like really up in the clouds, then go into the dirt. So I wanna find something that I and I hope.
Speaker 1:Every time I'm like, please have something that I actually care about, something I'm interested in. But I'll start with the typical oh my gosh, your home is so beautiful, even if it's not. Oh my gosh, your home is so beautiful. Oh, when'd you move in here? Oh, that's great. Where'd you move from? Oh, well, I've never been there. Oh, I have been there. Oh, that's awesome. Oh, wow, what a beautiful, whatever. And then, like, if I see like photos on the walls like, oh, are you in the military? And that's what I go for the most, if I can find something in the military, it's perfect, cause if they're in a Navy I can talk to them about that. If they're in the army, I can talk shit to them, like there's a whole gambit of stuff that we can do. So it really depends. And then if there's actually a nugget of something that I can engage on. That's great.
Speaker 1:However, I will say have you read the book by Chris Voss? Never split the difference, yeah. So one thing I took away from that book and this is, I think, something that sales. Every sales person should read that I think for this one reason is learning the archetypes of different buyers, because I have found, like you know, if you do have that person that you can't start a conversation with, if they fall inside that informational archetype like someone that just wants information, they want details and numbers I have found if you try to be too rapport-centered with them, you'll actually blow the sale. So a lot of times if someone's giving me nothing back like if I'm trying to do my cause, I'm pretty high energy.
Speaker 1:If I'm doing my little fun stuff in the home and I'm just getting uh-huh, yeah, huh, cool, okay, I was like all right. So what do you wanna get done today? I'll just go right to it, like what information do you want today? What do you wanna get out of this appointment? And I'll just get straight to what they want, and then I'll just focus heavily on stats and figures and things like that, and usually that will convert better. So to your point. I think knowing your audience is super important, so learning how to speak is huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly. And one of the techniques I like to use, what we just did here, where we had a conversation and then I said, you know, I turned it into okay, this question. So I thought of what you said and then picked out a little piece in there and, oh, let's talk about this, and dove into that. So I like to go into the rabbit holes a little bit. So that's on normal conversations where people are actually saying something and when they're not saying anything, I try and look around, like their house, or look at what they're wearing or something, and try and find some conversation. So when you're in the house, like you said, like oh, beautiful house, you might look for some pictures, stuff like that, good ones to ask like, hey, are you married, do you have kids? What are your hobbies? Just common things that most people will say, and then you should be able to start having a conversation around that.
Speaker 1:I can't do the kid one man, because they start talking about kids. I'm like I don't care about your damn kids. Yeah, I don't care about kids. I'm like, oh, you got kids. I'm like, ah, cool, you must have a stress you out, huh, yeah.
Speaker 2:So for me it works. I got one one on the way and everything, so I like doing that. So it definitely depends, yeah, but that's a great point right there. Make sure that whatever you talk about, it's something that you can at least look interested in. So for you you avoid the kids one because you're like I just could care less about talking about that.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Like art may be one for me, let's just go with art Like I don't want to talk about art Like oh, I'm not going to say oh, wow, that's some really cool art that you have there, because I don't want to have that conversation. Plus, I don't know anything about art so I can't even sound intelligent about that at all.
Speaker 1:So have you ever found that because you've worked with salespeople before, I'm assuming have you ever felt like dealt with the and this is something I've tried to trade on too where you'll have those guys that will just try to agree with the client on everything, like they might not even be, like they might not be a bowler, but that guy is a bowler and they go into the oh, I love bowling. And then they're like, oh, let's talk about it. And then they're like, oh crap, and they start asking questions Like sports is huge. For that. I have had a couple of my sales guys who aren't sports people. And then they go into homes like a sports fan and if you want to get ripped apart, try to talk sports and sales encounter to a sports fan. If you don't know what you're talking about, it's become so awkward. I tried it a few times on sports I didn't know about. It's like I'm never doing this, ever again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely have at least some kind of knowledge with it. Like, don't, that's the tough thing. You want to acknowledge something that makes sense. It's going to get them to start talking. But, yeah, if it's something that you really don't know a lot about, definitely don't do it.
Speaker 2:When I was doing some training a long while back with it was more my programming days one of the instructor that I was learning under until I could go and do the training on my own, he was telling me that he's like, hey, you know, talk about sports or something. I'm like, dude, I don't watch sports. I can talk about it a little bit, I can get the guys talking. We're here in the Clemson Gamecock area, so everybody is a Clemson or Gamecock fan, so I could bring that up. But I'm like, dude, I don't watch the games. Be like, oh, did you see the game last weekend, right? Nope, I'm like I'm going to say that and I'm like, oh, yeah, no, no, no, no. I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, that's cool. Like I've got nothing to talk about, so I've got to try and talk about something different. But it's funny because he tried to push that on me. So you have to figure out what you're comfortable talking about, that you know something about and try and relate with him. So that's a great point that you brought up there.
Speaker 1:So you work, obviously you're doing a lot of entrepreneur stuff right now and obviously I, from what we spoke about before, it seems like you're also trying to go on your own, have your own thing going on. I don't know about you, but when you get into this world, for me at least it consumes everything. And, like you just talked about, I don't talk. He's like I don't watch sports, right, and I'm sure you probably talk a lot about business, like your brain is probably always thinking, speaking things like that. So I, you're married, right, yeah, married, yeah, wife, kids. Do you struggle at all trying to communicate what you're doing with other people outside of? Like your family group, like I can't keep, like circle gets smaller, you don't have, like the amount of people to talk to, because I think a lot of people struggle with that. I'm wondering if that's something you've ever experienced. Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2:And it's funny because right now I'm also taking German with with BMW. They offer those classes for free. So I'm like, hey, why not? I know a few times a year.
Speaker 2:I might as well, learn the language a little bit. But that's one of the things that they're we go through, like trying to speak the language a little bit, and they talk about hobbies and I'm like podcasting, talking to people on the phone talking about business, that's kind of my hobbies. I mean I just love it. I enjoy it. I love talking about speaking. I love getting on a podcast like this whether it's you on mine or me on somebody else's and just having a good conversation, hop on a call, networking and everything Like that's a lot of fun to me and really enjoying that process. That was one thing. That was a struggle for me at first was enjoying the process of like going after the sale, like trying to get the next client and prospect to land them as a client and everything and so. But yeah, like you said, I that kind of becomes my consuming thing. It's really hard to pull out of the business and not talk about business.
Speaker 1:Right, but you're doing it. You're doing it smart. I mean a lot of people, especially because, like social media these days, they see, oh, you have to just be an entrepreneur and do nothing else to make the dreams happen, and sure, the thing will happen faster if you do that. That was the route I took, but I kind of was forced into it, right, I didn't start there, right, I was building a different startup making a ton of money before I had to make this leap. It was kind of forced upon me, right.
Speaker 1:And you know you have a good job where you're getting income, but yet you're actually putting in the effort to do, to do an actual, like what I call a side hustle, to make it your main hustle. And how do you like structure your time? Because I think a lot of people think like, oh, I work at nine to five, I really don't have time to pursue my entrepreneurial jobs. Like, how have you been able to crack it? Because I've been watching you and you're growing very exponentially right now and I think people that don't know you you know as of this podcast pretty soon will and then eventually, you know they're just going to see you at your peak and they're like oh must be nice, right, but they don't know the sacrifice that's involved with having that W2 job and still trying to make what you're doing now happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, first of all, I appreciate the recognition there. Definitely it feels a lot of times like nobody's recognizing that and of course, being on this side like man, I'm not getting the likes, the follows, all this stuff, and the business isn't growing like I want. But it is nice to get that recognition. So I do appreciate that and I want to put something in here real quick. That in this is another thing that I like that you said this like you admire that. There's a lot of people that I talk to and they're like when are you going to leave? When are you going to leave? When are you going to leave? Dude, I'm not ready. I've got. I've got one daughter, I've got another daughter on the way. I'm married, I've got responsibilities Right. So when I signed that paper saying I am going to marry my wife, it was to take care of her, to provide for her. I mean, I can go be scrappy, you're going to get canceled.
Speaker 1:You're doing gender identity roles there. Phillip, watch out. Yeah right, but mom's going to cancel you, how dare you take care of your wife.
Speaker 2:How dare you? Yeah, but but I'm there to do that, to take care of that, and luckily there is some flexibility in my role. I will say that I'm blessed with the role that I have, that I can create some of the flexibility that I have. But when it comes to the actual work, like I'm really setting aside time for first my family, you know, figure out what the family needs and then figure out, obviously the nine to five. What do I need there? What are those hours? And then a church is another important thing for me. So putting time for that. So usually Sunday and then Wednesday evening are those times that you know that are actual structured, go to the church, building kind of thing, and then from there what time do I have left? And I'm really trying to be intentional with that to put in that time for the business. So a lot of times that's from like 730 to nine o'clock at night and then I'm usually up about 330 in the morning five or six days a week. So from like 330 to five o'clock I'm working on me reading a book, reading the Bible, sending some emails, trying to make connection calls so I can get those set up in my calendar, just being very intentional with that and then setting a target too, because that's something that is really newer for me. This year it's kind of been like, oh, you know, I'm going to do this, going to do that, and it kind of happens but I don't really have a basis of what. Was this good or was this not good? So now my objective is to get like on 12 networking calls every single week, because if I can do that, week in and week out, business is going to come and I looked at like how many hours I can realistically do and everything. So that's how I set that up. So even like during lunch, like I have like an hour for lunch that I'm trying to get on networking calls, I'm trying to do things on the ride home for work, because nobody's going to talk to me, because I'm leaving the house at 5am to go into work, so nobody's going to talk to me then. But when I'm leaving work I'm going to try and get on a call and if I don't have one scheduled, I'm going to call somebody up, I'm going to send messages, and so my objective right now is to do 10 outreaches a day.
Speaker 2:Just it's whether it's a follow up, whether it's trying to reach somebody new, whatever. I've set targets for myself every single day and I even use the sauna to say, hey, here's and you know this from apex my dream 25. So I've got a list of them and about every five days I'm supposed to be touching base with them in some way, shape or form. So I have a little checkmark that says, okay, I've touched base with them. Okay, they're up today. Here's the groups that I need to post in on Facebook. Here's the groups that I need to connect with here. Here's what I need to do.
Speaker 2:I have a CRM that one I haven't gotten as systematic on yet, but I do put stuff in there. I make sure I put follow ups in there and everything. But when I put it down, when I put a target down, when I put down that, here's when I need to follow up and put a system for myself. Now and it sucks doing it now down the road. It's a lot easier because I can follow these people, because I know in my system I've got to do this today and that's just part of my daily thing and and it's added up over time and this does sound like a lot and it is a lot if you're starting out, so just start with one thing. But that's really how I've done it. I've really just figured out you know what are my times that I have to do, the non-negotiables being my nine to five being my family time being church, and then I can fill in the rest of the time with good productive things on the business, and that means cutting out other things that don't have to do with family, church, business or work and my full time job and everything. That's really a long way of saying it of how I've been able to structure that time.
Speaker 2:And then that includes Saturdays, and I take off every other Saturday. I mean, I'm DMing and stuff like that for somewhat, but I don't do podcast recordings, I don't do calls with people on Saturdays, because every other Saturday is family time, because I give that to my family, because I know my wife. She works a full time job as well and if I'm taking every Saturday, that sucks for her, because now she's got to take care of one daughter and she can be a handful. So I try and make sure that I communicate with her as well on that, which goes back to what we were talking about as well. Like, hey, I've got these things coming up. Here's what's on the calendar, and we really talk through a lot of that, and then I make sure to plan out that time for her, rather than her telling me, hey, I need this time, I just start planning it out, because when I need to do something, I say, hey, I have this time over here for us.
Speaker 2:This is what I need to do here, and women don't necessarily express that or say that they're noticing it, but they notice that stuff, man. So you need to set that intention and you need to stick with what you say and your intentions, as they notice it and you will slowly start losing disrespect for them and credibility. So you've got to set the intention, you've got to set that time up, and it's not to say that you are better than them or you're the one that's supposed to, you know, control their life completely, but by you creating that structure and this could be for women too you create that structure and people will fall into line and yourself will fall into that line. So that's what I've done. It just create the structure so I can move the business forward. Otherwise, it's just kind of going somewhere and who knows where it is.
Speaker 1:No, it's awesome, and I mean you're you're. What's really cool is you're doing it on your, your own terms, and I say things a lot of times. You, I mean you see my posts on Facebook and there's a lot of times like I'll post something people will love it, but also I'll say stuff that you know is not meant to be triggering, but it triggers a ton of people. Usually people are pretty lazy, but you know, what I've learned is people, for some reason, like the way you do something, you can get. We can all get to the same place doing it in a different way. I think the only thing that needs to happen is you have to have one, consistency, and then two, you need to have the ability to continually do the same thing over and over again to to hit that goal Right, and whether you work a nine to five, and because everyone's life is different, and I think one, people judge themselves too much on the way they're doing it, because they see all these other gurus, and those are people that do it a certain way and they feel like they have to do it that way, and then, at the same token, there's other people that think you can only get it by doing it their way, which I just don't think makes sense. And the fact that you're able to have the confidence to just stick with your own plan, I think, is why you'll get there, because then eventually, when it is right, you won't have that stress, because Success really is dependent on what you define it Well, what is successful.
Speaker 1:And those have been some of my most triggered posts, because I define success in a certain way and people get upset when you talk about things like that, and a lot of times I think it's because you challenge where they're at and you make them feel small and they shouldn't feel that way. And it's kind of frustrating because it's like listen, if you're happy, being average, good for you, like I wouldn't want to be there. I probably wouldn't have you in my circle, probably wouldn't hang out with you, because I don't like that mindset. But if you're happy you know who am I to say Same thing for you if you're working at 9 to 5 and people are like oh dude, when are you going to do this? Well, bro, I'm good, yeah, and I just see where they're at.
Speaker 1:And I don't know who said this, but I definitely take it to heart that anyone who is below me, like if I'm doing better than somebody and they give me advice, I'm immediately not listening to it, at least as far as, like, my professional goals go. I just won't because and not to sound rude but if I'm doing better than you, what can you actually tell me? Like you know, as far as my profession goes, maybe there's some personal stuff that you're doing better than me that I would listen to, but professionally, like if you're at my level or below, I'm probably not going to listen to you. Now, if you're above me and I'm looking for advice, then I will, because you've been there, yeah, and I think I think too and I see this so many times like, especially for you know, let's say, you wanted to make the switch, like you're kind of doing the opposite, where you're like you actually, you know you got the family, you're sticking it in, but there's also, you know, people like who might be in college or you know they might, you know, be a little bit older and they want to make a drastic career change, and families telling them no, and you know girlfriends are telling them no and they just don't do it, and then they live the rest of their lives in this quiet desperation where they never reach their full potential. And, to be honest, I've always just gotten that mindset now where if you fail, who cares? Like, at least you'll know you tried, because I have found that secure jobs. If you have a skill set and you're actually good at what you do, you'll always be able to find something if you take that leap. But if you don't take the leap, you're going to regret it forever and not again. That's not harsh.
Speaker 1:But if your family and loved ones are telling you to do, not to do something, but they haven't achieved stuff professionally, like, let's say, you really want to be an entrepreneur. You, you want to build a business that influences millions of people and that's your vision, right, big ass vision. But the people around you none of them have achieved that. If they're telling you not to do it, would you really listen to them? Because obviously you don't have the same mindset as you and that could be a tough conversation, which, unfortunately, is why I think when you pick a partner, you need to have someone that does support your crazy visions. Right? I can't imagine doing what I do if I didn't have the support of you know, my wife and my loved ones. Yeah, because it makes it harder. And I'm and I trust me, I'm sympathetic. I know plenty of people are like, oh, my home life is making this really difficult. And then it's like, well, you know what? Do you want to give up, do you want to resent them, or do you want to go for your dreams? And then have a little uncomfortability and you know, me and my wife did have that at one point.
Speaker 1:So I was in the Navy for 10 and a half years and you know it was a pretty prestigious job. I was protecting the secretary of Navy, secretary of defense, got out, was going to keep doing that, but COVID hit, so there weren't any jobs opening. So a buddy of mine hooked me up with doing water treatment sales, which is how I got into the industry in the first place. And I remember I was talking to my wife about it and she was like Justin, I don't want to be married to a freaking salesperson, right, it's funny because, like, even at the time, you know, I thought the same thing.
Speaker 1:Like, oh, being in sales it's like that's what, and don't get offended people. But at the time I was like, man, that's what dummies do, that's people who aren't intelligent do, that's what you know lazy people do Like, and I was obviously I was completely off basis of it. I was like you know, that's how it's kind of sold to the public. We're not in sales. You, you look at sales as kind of a sleazy profession. One, because you don't wait for that in it, you don't know you're actually trying to help people. And then, two, the terrible, shitty salespeople out there ruin it for everybody, right. So once I realized I was like oh, wow, and I met some of the best people in the industry and obviously made a lot of money in the process.
Speaker 1:Like this changed my life and but there was that uncomfortable moment where it was like a sticking point. But I was like, dude, let me just try it. If it doesn't work, I can always go back to the federal government, right. And that was kind of the conversation. And it was not a fun conversation, like I was doubting myself and I was and it.
Speaker 1:But it actually kind of fueled me because and I think Andy Elliott talks about this where he's like you got to put your back against the wall, and that is so true because at that point I had no money coming in and she didn't want me to do this thing. So I was like I got to make this work, I got to figure out a way to make it work. So I got really good really quickly and started making a ton of money. And I do think for some people that is where that conversation comes in of. Sometimes you do have to put yourself in a stressful situation To get your dreams, to get your goals, because if you don't, you don't really know what you're made of until, like that fear and stress comes in. So yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:And I would just to give an analogy here with that, because we think, man, well, if I just decided to make this decision and you've got to figure this out for yourself, not to not giving you this advice here and obviously I haven't quite taken this advice yet myself, because I need to get in a certain spot on a financial perspective because of other commitments I've made but when you decide to make a decision and you go for that, it's very similar to if your, if your income got cut in half immediately today. It would really sting for a bit, but eventually you'll get used to it, right, but it just takes time. So when you decide to go make that leap, your spouse is on board. If they're not on board with you, if they're on board with you, it's a little bit different. Obviously, there it's a lot easier, maybe a little bit easier, maybe a lot easier. But if they're not on board with you, they're not going to like it at first, but they will eventually realize this is the norm now. This is just how things are, and then it just that's how it is.
Speaker 2:So you have to give it time, but you have to make that decision and commit with it. When you do commit. Now you have other obligations or whatever you have to figure out for yourself. But yeah, when you make that jump, it's going to take time but they will get used to it and hopefully you can find that wild success very quickly. But you just have to put yourself out there and as an engineer towards salespeople, I kind of felt that same way, like, oh, salespeople, you know they're not smart, they're lazy, they don't do anything. The more I've gotten into sales, the more I realize dude, salespeople do a lot and they have to put themselves out there and be rejected all the time. They deserve the additional funding that they get through a salary or commission, whatever that looks like within their pay structure that other people don't get because they are going out there and actually making the business make money, like getting their projects to be able to work on to pay for everybody else.
Speaker 1:And what people don't realize too. In sales a lot of these industries they're really trying to help you and a lot of times you think they're trying to get over on you. But once you're in a sales environment and you're in a good organization, you're in a sales team, you actually see like how much these companies do go to try to help people. I just you know there's just a couple of bad actors out there, that kind of ruin it for everybody. But to me I think it's the most honorable profession and if you are someone and I will die on the sword now that I've been into it I think everyone should join the military for four years to learn discipline and to learn how to endure hard things. And then I also believe someone should go into sales for two years. I feel like your first six years at high school should be dedicated to that, because you'll get the foundation to be a good human being through the military. You'll be able to handle stress, you'll actually grow up a little bit, and then the two years of sales will teach you how to communicate, talk with strangers and actually see how terrible people can be, but also and give you like that perspective. So throughout the rest of your life. You have a better worldly view of what you know, one how to communicate, how to negotiate, which is amazing for any part of business, any type of business you go into, and I think those are some life skills you get to learn and I wish you could make that required if I was a. I'll do it, I'll make it required, but I think that's a huge thing. Yeah, and one thing you were talking about too, and I think this is for most people, what normally seems like a step back is normally just putting you into a vehicle. That's can propulsive even further from what I found every time, because you don't lose the skills you learn through life. So you know everything you've learned from Morgan at BMW. You know the moment you leave there there's going to be a pay gap, it's just going to happen. But all those skills you learned into your new endeavor are obviously going to prop up, propulsive further.
Speaker 1:I mean, for me, I thought I wasted. Seeing you know these young closers and seeing kids 23, 24, 25, making a lot more money than I could imagine at that time in sales was kind of crazy to me. But having that 10 years of military experience actually when I got into sales, had a pulse of me Way faster than I thought it would be, you know into owning my own business and I still feel like I'm behind. I mean I'm 31. I just started a company last year. I feel like that's slow, but in the grand scheme, you know, I looked at the average business owners. Most people start their business in the forties. So I feel like my experience helped with that and now I had to take it off.
Speaker 1:So we started business. You take a big step back and pay, which, if you are going to be an entrepreneur guys I know this is probably the most common thing said and I heard it, but I didn't really feel it until I was in the business you don't get paid that much until it really becomes a big thing. We did 400 K and eight months and in my brain I was like, oh, if I get to 400, if I get to a million a year, I'll make a ton of money. But then when I calculate the reinvestment structure into the business, all the payroll, everything else, I was like, all right, a million dollars is not a lot of money, you know. Oh, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's funny and for me as like a side hustle. I remember talking to my buddy last year. I'm like, dude, once I get to like a thousand a month, like that'll be awesome, like that'll get really good, and then I start doing that, I'm like where'd the money go? Hmm, what happened? Oh my gosh. So you as a side hustle, like a side hustle, it's a little bit easier. Like a thousand, two thousand, ten thousand a month on the side, yeah, that's that is a decent chunk of change, but it's still.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not as much as you really think. It is especially the way inflation is going and everything.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, yeah, it's. It's crazy man. And so, like, if you're an employee working as a 1099 and you're in like a mini startup or you're just in like a medium sized business, there is more stress that that business owner is going under than you could possibly imagine. And I'm going to give you a hack right now. If you got, if you're in an organization and you want to grow quickly in that organization, get promoted. Go to the CEO, go to the manager, say, hey, I appreciate what you're doing, you're doing a great job. I know no one tells you that. What can I do to take some stuff off your plate? Hmm, and I can promise you it doesn't matter how high up they are, even if they don't give you something right, then and there they will love that initiative and it will send you to the top of the ranks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, organization, that is what you should do. Go to the top guys. And what can I do to take off your plate? Because in the you know you're going to, you're taking an issue of outside your normal job to learn a skill that and they're probably going to give you some stupid tasks that you don't want to do. That's going to be busy work, but I promise you, if you're trying to advance, take some stuff off that owner's plate. Do you want to recon for your business?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and even if you don't want to go all the way to the top level, go to the person above you, or two rungs above you or something, and figure out what their objective is, what they're trying to do and how you can help them, and they'll bring you with them. They're not going to bring just whoever. They're going to bring the people that are there helping them out. So you scratch their back, they'll scratch your back. That's a solid piece of advice right there and it goes across any industry, any size, business and everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny because, like when sales you teach, when you learn to sell somebody or learn to sell a product, the biggest thing is how can I provide it as much value to the customer? But we often forget, like, when you're in like an organization or a team, do the same thing in the team. How can I provide more value to my team, how can I provide more value to the organization? And then the organization will appreciate that, like, we often forget that these organizations are still made of people and they may seem soulless, but there is someone in the organization that's feeling some. Whatever level you're at, I promise you if you're stressed, the person above you is probably just the stressed or if not more. So if you can identify those things and you're trying to go up the corporate ladder, that is the best way to do. It is just add that value to them. Like, what can I do for you? What do you need help with? What busy work do you not want to do? And if you jump to that, it'll change the game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, I agree. And then the more you can be proactive and figure that out before even going and asking them is going to be even more impressive to them. They'll like that even more. But if you ask, it's not a bad thing either If you just need to ask, but if you can figure out what that is, that's an impressive thing too.
Speaker 1:Exactly, so question for you if you had to give, like let's say you had five minutes to give the like your top 10 tips to somebody to I don't know, in like the next 30 days, they could drastically improve their speaking. What would be, like, the things that you'd tell that person? If they're like terrible speaking and they're listening to this like I need to get better speaking, what would you tell them, Like, what are some things they could actually do to improve quickly, Literally?
Speaker 2:start taking action. So, whether that be doing a real or just a very short video on social media, going live on social media, if you want to invest the small amount of cost to get into podcasting, doing podcasting, but essentially you creating some kind of message, it could even you could literally start out with hey. So today I ate chicken and rice for lunch. It was pretty good. It was a little dry today because it's the third day having chicken, just something stupid like that.
Speaker 2:But doing the repetition is what's going to get you better, and trying to, and just at first, literally just I don't know what I'm going to talk about, but I'm just going to start talking to. Okay, let me think about this. I want to talk about my lunch today. Okay, I want to talk about what happened in my day. I want to talk about relationships. I want to talk about business and start having actual things to talk about. That's literally what you should start doing to get better at speaking, cause you're not going to get better at something until you start doing it and you're not going to know how to get better or what you need to actually improve on until you start doing it.
Speaker 2:Too many people want to learn like, hey, okay, let me go read all these books. I mean, I've got plenty of books back here on marketing, sales, business but until I actually start taking action on that, I don't really know what information is valid for me right now and what information isn't. And so you, just you're in this consumption mindset. Until you start outputting, you can't figure out what you need. So do videos, put the output in and figure out what it is and go back and study it somewhere and then continue to output again. So that's, I guess we can say three right there Cool.
Speaker 2:Number four would be figure out a message that you want to share. So what is this message that you want to talk about? And just start talking about that. I've noticed for a lot of business owners it takes about three years. Andy Frazella talks about a thousand days. You have to do something for a thousand days before you can get there, which is about 2.7 years. I just did the sermon on that, so that's how.
Speaker 1:I know it's 27 years which quick, quick, I didn't go to.
Speaker 2:I didn't go to months there, but yeah, so it's almost three years of doing something before people identify you with a certain thing. So start talking about that now and I think it's like you spend 20 hours learning something and you know like 90% more, or you know more than 90% of the people on that subject. All it takes is like 20 hours, but then I think it takes like another, like 8,000 hours or some other number in order to know more than, or to be the expert on that then, but it takes very little to become more knowledgeable than somebody. So spend that time learning that knowledge.
Speaker 1:So I guess that I'm just put out a bunch of things here, yeah, good. So like what would you say if it was something less like business, right? So you know, a lot of people talk about business but really any subject now is probably quote unquote, are oversaturated. I don't know if that's, I don't know if it's really, if it really is, I don't believe anything is. But let's say you had someone to just start now like, oh man, I really want to talk about business. But then they go on to business and they look and they see Alex Hermosi and they see Andy Frazella and they see these Titans. What would be your advice to them of like getting going and sticking with it when they're like, well, I'm not these guys, what would you say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, people call me a motivational speaker, but I'm not Tony Robbins. So same thing there. It doesn't matter what you teach on, what you speak on, it's about who you are. You as an individual can help somebody, just like you mentioned earlier, justin. Like I'm not going to talk with somebody who's are learned from somebody who's on my same level or below me, but there's other people that aren't Justin, that are beneath your level. They haven't gotten as far in life or business, whatever you're teaching on, and you can teach those people and so that's your audience.
Speaker 2:So you should share where you're at, because I've I've never ran a million dollar business. I've never or sorry, well, I've never ran a million dollar business either, but I've never ran a billion dollar business. I've never had a billion dollars. So if I try to get mentorship from somebody like Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk, they're so far beyond me right now. Could they help me? Yes, but they are so far beyond me right now that they can't break down a business enough for me to be able to understand and be able to actually take some actionable steps Right.
Speaker 2:So I need somebody that's ran, let's say, a million dollar business to help my hundred thousand dollar business get to a million. I don't need that billion dollar business owner to help me get to a million dollar business. So so I say that to say whatever you're teaching on, you can help somebody. That's just one step behind you. So start talking with your experience and what you know to those people that were where you were at a month ago, three months ago, three years ago, and those are the people that you could help. So that's my advice Talk to the people that you used to be.
Speaker 1:That's, that's gold, especially what you just said about being a hundred K business taking advice for a million dollar business owner. I have fallen to this mistake myself and I think a lot of people do the same thing. Where you want to be, let's say, you have a billion dollar mindset, so you want to like look at what they're doing. Unfortunately, a lot of those people have not documented what they did to actually get there, and those small steps a hundred percent are are skills and there's traits and there's mindsets and things you have to develop to even get to that point. So, yeah, I think you're a hundred percent right, I understand. Right.
Speaker 1:If you are Less, like if you're at a million, go to the person that's like at five or ten. Yeah, you're at a hundred K. Go to the guys at 500 K, a hundred or a mill right, because that's a lot closer to where you are they. Actually they probably more recently also been where you were. Yeah, I noticed too, like timeline definitely matters, right. I'm sure things that Bezos did back in the 90s Probably wouldn't be the same tactics he would do if he was trying to build Amazon today.
Speaker 1:Yeah with social media and everything that's been going on. So I think that is why also having mentors are so important that are near your level, and then you should, instead of trying to chase this super high goal, maybe just chase your mentor. Just chase that person is right above you, and then the next level up and this is something that's helped me out recently is Even with that. And I think about stuff a lot because I'm always trying to improve my own mental, my own performance. And what I've found is even with my you know my mentor right now. He runs a water treatment company I've known for a long time. There are multiple states they're crushing it. I mean, they probably do. Oh my god, I even know 800 K a mill a month or more. So they're crushing it and you know he's been really helping me out with the frameworks and the lessons and things like that. But what I found is, because I'm communicating them so much especially you know they've been around for so much longer I still look at their numbers and I look at my numbers and I'll feel bad. Right, and you shouldn't. It's a stupid like why do you feel sad? Like there's no reason to right? Yeah, instead, one thing that I've really been trying to do and if this helps somebody try, this is I Just say, okay, justin, if, if you fast-forward 10 years, if everything I do works out, and I could picture that the perfect me, like where the business would be, what I would look like, what I'd be doing if I just fast-forward 10 years, what does that look like? And so that, picture that person. And then I just say, okay, every day that you feel like shit or whatever, just imagine that Justin, looking back at you, would he be happy and proud of where you're at? Would you be on the right path? If the answer is yes, then chill out. If the answer is no, then you need to work a little bit harder, and that just helped me maintain my mindset of you don't need to improve the world, or you, sorry, you don't need to impress the world, you just need to impress yourself. And if you can get okay, just being okay with your own timeline, your own schedule, kind of what you're doing, right you're, you're ignoring the outside noise of hey, you should probably just jump into this thing.
Speaker 1:I Think that is the recipe to actually get you going forward. I think it stops you from copying other people. I think that'll, you know, make you a one-of-one in whatever industry you're in, because you'll be able to build a brand and build a presence around who you actually are, instead of Taking in too much stuff from everybody else trying to replicate that, and I think that will get you further Faster or I should say I think it'll get you further. I think it'll take longer. I think if you can copy someone else I especially if it's hot in the moment, like I know an Andy Elliot was blowing up I'm sure if there's another fitness influencer that was doing that same kind of vibe, they'd probably be able to go a certain way. But then eventually they'd be like, dude, you're just copying this guy and then you'll get stalled. So I think the only way to avoid that is to just really be okay, saying, alright, I got to do it myself, I got to do it my own way. Take inspiration from people that are above me, but don't judge the results on that. Just judge the work that you're doing, and that's been the biggest takeaway for me.
Speaker 1:Is I just like? What is my like we? You're talking about outputs. That's what I focus on now they, what were my outputs today? I did, did I max out my outputs. Today. I did okay, good, no matter what the result of today was, no matter what happens if, if clients cancel, if deals fall through, it doesn't matter. If I Did with the right everything I did right today, did the right actions that took the right step, that's a win. Yeah. If I didn't, it's a loss, no matter what happens. So if I sit around all day and I don't, you know, check on my team or I don't do what I'm supposed to do and we get four or five sales, I lost the day.
Speaker 1:And I think having that mindset, that mindset shift, has made me more productive. It's gotten me more sales. It's actually propelled the business faster. Because, at the end of the day, you can't control an outcome. You can only control the actions that you take. You take enough of the right actions over a long period of time, you're gonna get more better outcomes, which is how I think we should define luck. Everyone talks about getting lucky. I don't think I'm sure you can't get lucky. I think there is an element of luck sometimes. But I also think just logically, if you just do the the right outputs for a long period of time, you're bound to have something fall into place just by sure volume. Yeah, you know, you knock a hundred thousand doors. If you suck and you get five percent of those to close, that's like what 500 in my industry equals 500 deals a month, you're making like a million dollars a year. Yeah right, so really Knowing that if you knock a hundred thousand doors or have a hundred thousand conversations, you're good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, it becomes a number game and this is something that I struggled with for a while figure out, well, what is the right output. You have to kind of play with this and figure out what that thing is. So, for me, a lot of times it was posting on social media. I still do that, but I realized I needed to be actually having conversations with people about what I do in some way, shape or form, whether it's just to get the recognition that they know I do that. And then eventually, when they're ready that, they'll be like oh, I need to talk to Philip about speaking, coaching, or right. When I talked to him, then they're like oh, actually I could use that help, but if I never talked to them, they're not gonna talk to me. Most of the time people will not come and talk to you. So I would say the number one thing is talking to people about what you do, and it's not necessarily selling them. It's about hopping on a call, having a conversation hey, what you got going on business, what do you do? Hey, what are you doing Like, what are you got going on, and stuff. Oh, and then you might make a connection with somebody else or give them Somebody that they could talk to that might have the need for that, or know somebody that has a need and stuff like that, and that's what that is. That's the thing that you can focus on is Trying to just talk to people about what you do. Not sell them right. Just talk to them about what you do and that's the Right thing to do. And there's gonna be other things that come up that you need to do as well.
Speaker 2:But enjoying the process is a big thing that I've found as well. I was so miserable when all I thought about is I have this goal, I want to get to this goal, I want to get out out of the nine to five, I want to make a hundred thousand dollars a year, I want to be a millionaire, I want all these things. And they wouldn't come that day or the next day or the next day and it always sucked and it started tearing me down and made me not want to work. But when I started enjoying the process of I did ten outreaches today, I posted on social media, I talked about this. I did these things when I started focusing on the process in my actionable steps that I could actually control. Yes, that's when I started feeling better and I knew, like you said, as long as I do these things that are moving that needle forward, even if it's just a slight bit, eventually the goals that I'm trying to get to you are gonna happen, the outcomes are gonna finally happen.
Speaker 2:And the thing that's so sad and we often focus on the outcome, what our goal, what we want, but when we get there so I want to be a millionaire, well, I'll see me become a millionaire. Oh, well, now I want to have, you know, be worth eight figures. Now I want to have right, ten million dollars in that worth and your goal Immediately changes, or you start getting to that million dollar mark. You're at $990,000. You know what? I'm pretty close. Let me go ahead, bump it up to ten million, what you need to reach it, so you even get to celebrate it. Oh, yeah, that's what we do too often with our goals, so we just keep moving it or like, oh, good job. On to the next thing. Yeah, focus on the output, focus on the process and enjoy the process, because you're gonna be in the process a lot longer throughout life than you ever will be in achieving that goal and being at that goal.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, dude, and then you protect yourself from depression when you get there, because my whole thing was I was. I remember I wanted to make like a hundred grand, like that was my thing. And when I got, when I finally blew past that as a sales guy, I remember when I first had like that money in cash, I will say that was the best I ever felt. However, once I got past that, it just became the same because all my needs were met. And, yeah, that's when I actually started hating the industry. I was in because like, oh my god, I'm making this money. But now I just don't, like I really hate the industry I'm in.
Speaker 1:I was in solar at the time. So sorry, solar people, I couldn't stand it and I think that's a good lesson is like, if you can build around something you actually generally enjoy and then you make the money, you get best of both worlds. But yeah, falling in love with the process is such it's it's easy to say hard to do. It's so it's easy to say it's hard to do because obviously when you're hurting and you're broke, it's like, how do I make money? So I get it? Trust me, yeah, I understand, yeah, hey, hey, man, I love talking to you. It's always amazing.
Speaker 2:Tell my peoples where they can find, and just the best places are to go to my website speaking sessions calm you go to Facebook at the real Philip sessions or over on LinkedIn at Philip sessions. That's gonna be the three best places to find me, especially the website. You'll be able to see all the things I'm working on webinars, virtual summits, my coaching, the whole gamut there. You'll be able to see all that stuff there. Well, reach out to me, send me a DM, happy to hop on a call or have a conversation.
Speaker 1:I love it. And, guys, if you're trying to level up your speaking game, I don't know if you could tell from this conversation, but he speaks better than I do by a long shot. So if you're trying to level up, definitely hit him up. It's the number one skill and this guy's a legend. So if you're not following him, give him a follow, please. I guarantee you that he's put so much free content out that will help all of you out there. Check out his podcast. You know. If you're just trying to hear from other people that he interviews and learning, I'm telling you it is Someone you're gonna want to put your rotation All right. Thank you, guys.