Harmony of Hustle
Jump into the World of Justin Shoemaker aka "The Waterboy" . From Business, to music, this is the inside look of the world of the hyper-driven and their Harmony of Hustle.
Harmony of Hustle
WhatNot x Harmony of Hustle
In this episode I did my first live stream podcast on whatnot and talk about the card business and veefriends as a whole.
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This podcast. For those of you who don't know, it's one I started about two years ago and basically it started as a way to document the journey of me building a company. So if you want to listen to the full thing, definitely check it out on Spotify. And I want to start bringing it to whatnot, because I know there's a lot of people on here who have businesses or like business and obviously, as a part of the podcast, I'll be giving away some VFriends cards because that's obviously we're on a VFriends stream, right. And today I just wanted to talk about it's been a while since I've done an episode, so today what I'm going to be talking about is kind of what you don't know until you get to three or four years in. One of the things that took me the longest thing to learn and I learned this painfully was, for any of you who are trying to start a business or you do start a business the decision making. The stakes are way higher because obviously your money's into it. One of the things that I made the mistake of very early on was the appearance of success and wanting to go super quickly to actually make money, because obviously when I started my water treatment company. It was all the money I had from building another company and I think, as a business owner, what can really mess you up is previous success is not indicative of future success and different industries are completely have different obstacles you have to you have to overcome, and I remember at my height of my business, we had 25 people working and I, you know my ego was getting stroked to that point because I was like holy shit, when I started this, this company, um, you know, I I was thinking that it had to run like the last company I helped build, which was really big. And unfortunately, the more people you guys have, especially you're looking at starting a business, a lot of times you're going to have more bloat. We were doing so. Right now, the company we do about 1.1 to 1.2 million a year in top line. Previously we were doing about the same, but I had 20 more people and, as a small business owner, you always think you need more people to make the business function and that's actually not the case. What you need is to have more A players than anything else and unfortunately, you don't really think, you don't really know what an A player is until you actually get to experience them and I thought at the time I had a bunch of A players and I didn't. So last year we actually completely slashed the workforce and now my company is me and two other people. Yet we have made more money than we ever did and we're actually way more efficient than we were previously, which is freaking crazy because it forced us to grow into a different model. So now we do virtual appointments instead of in-home appointments and I didn't realize how much money I was burning. So, even though we were doing 1.2 million in top line, once I actually got a bookkeeper brought in and I didn't realize how much money I was burning. So, even though we were doing 1.2 million in top line, once I actually got a bookkeeper brought in and I looked at the revenue we were doing, we were actually losing anywhere from 5 to 10K a month.
Speaker 1:Fucking insane right. So there's a quote I love and it's the fastest way to 5 million is not the fastest way to 20 million. And that is so true because I think whenever you start a new adventure and if any of you guys here are looking at starting a new business, there's a lot of inherent fear in that. I was. I was actually talking. I think I was talking to if Joel's in the chat.
Speaker 1:Um, we had a long conversation and one of the biggest things about starting a business is that inherent fear of what if I fail? What if I don't make enough money? How do I do all these things? I don't know how to do, and what I made the mistake of doing is I tried to outsource that fear very early on and if you actually listen to some of the earlier episodes of this podcast, you'll actually notice that I kind of talk about this. I was like oh, I got all these really good guys I got bringing on who are going to handle operations, handle product development, handle all these different parts of the business. What's funny is if I had just done it myself because these people ended up not being good, they ended up stealing money from the business and they ended up, you know, being let go regardless. So at the end of the day, I had to figure it out anyway up being let go regardless. So at the end of the day, I had to figure it out anyway.
Speaker 1:If I had just accepted the fear at the beginning, I would have saved the business a shitload of money, and I think at the beginning it's being okay being afraid and understanding that you kind of have to be and instead of trying to find people to quickly solve those problems, or because, let's say, you don't want to learn how to build a website, as like a small example, or you don't want to learn how to build the operations of an organization, like how to hire HR or how to get payroll taxes sent in, or how to do your annual filings with the state these like really annoying dumb things that you have to have in a business. If I just learned those that have hired in for that, I would have been way further along and the business would be in a much better place. Um, because then you also build you as the asset who has to learn all those skills to then implement and find a players who you know can actually execute. Um, funny enough, I now have actual eight players on the team and it's a night and day difference because the? A players take things off your plate and if you work for a company right now and you're looking, hey, how do I become the top person in in my industry, best way is take things off the leaders plates.
Speaker 1:The, the people at the top, generally don't get any support because, especially as a small business, everyone thinks small business owners are making a ton of money and that is not. Not how that works, especially in the first I'd say, one to five years, unless you're coming in just incredibly capitalized, like you did, some good financing rounds Maybe you guys had some investors or things like that that came in Then, yeah, then you know you absolutely. You absolutely then could be making money, but most of the time you're not being able to take things off. The leader's plate will propel you, and that's what my two people do. Now I have a lead installer who's an absolute savage, and I have Michelle who runs now my back office, who literally does everything, and that took three years to cultivate and about 50K in stolen revenue to get to that point.
Speaker 1:So for those of you trying to start a business, don't make the same mistakes that I made. All right, um, it's not, it is super, not glamorous. And uh, I will tell you, if your goal is to make money, um, starting a business is not the the best way, believe me, and that kind of leads into like whatnot right? Everyone here that does collective VFriends has seen just how insane this community is, and me, being a business guy. Even with my own company, I have now branched off because I want to start building the ClearWave brand into the whatnot VFriends brand. Any kind of business you want to run using those same business principles is super fundamental. So, with this, learning what I learned from the water business, where I went super, super quickly, brought a lot of people in now we're doing it super slow and building the foundation the right way, and I'm bringing that into the whatnot streams. So that started by setting money aside to buy into breaks and then buying into bulk cards, so that way, we have inventory for these streams and we're doing it at a very slow level. Um, it can be easy.
Speaker 1:So, especially for you guys who are interested in maybe, uh, becoming more invested in online shopping and starting to pursue that as a career path which, guys, you absolutely should If you are, uh, if you're at all interested in, you know business and you love trading cards this is an insane opportunity for you to get involved in it and, especially with the VFriends community, they are incredibly, incredibly supportive. Doing it the right way is super important. So, let's say you don't have a ton of money to invest. Well, where can you get the best bang for your buck. Well, right now, a bunch of the supply has been ripped. Well, right now, a bunch of the supply has been ripped. So there's a ton of people with a bunch of inventory who aren't sellers or just collectors, who would love to make you know 30 to 40 cents on a dollar on their VFriends collection. So if you want to get into the business, say, okay, I got $300. Find someone that has and Discord is a great place for this find someone that has a bunch of bulk, buy it and then start doing single streams.
Speaker 1:For any of you who follow, or in or plugged in to some of the biggest streamers out here, what? What is one of the most fun shows right now? It's the AM show, right, am sports cards and his show is so fun because he has so many breaks. He's put a ton of money into, into uh, oh, mine, I appreciate, I appreciate that um, but he's put a ton of time buying. You know breaks and cards and cases and you know to have this amazingly big stream. But me and uh, me and him had a conversation and, for those of you who don't know, he's been doing this for the past five to six years just in the sports card world and it started off super small. So for anyone here that wants to start that is the name of the game Find some money that you can invest into the business, whether it's 300, 500, a thousand, get your spreadsheet built out and basically all you're going to do is say, okay, I'm going to try to find collectors I want to offload if they're at between 40 to 70 cents a card, get those cards in and then you sell them as singles on a show and you make anywhere from 15 to 20 cents a card. Right, and it's not going to be a ton of money. You're not going to get rich overnight doing this by any means, but you start to build that base, you start to build that community, and that's the same thing that I've had to do now with the water company. You know we're going to get real, real on this podcast.
Speaker 1:Um, like I said, if you want to see the journey and see all my mistakes I've made, go to episode one. I've documented it from day one, um now till year three, so you can see the growth in even my own mindset, as I've grown as an entrepreneur over the last three years running a legit home service company, and you know there's so many things that I've done differently. Now, like even in my marketing, I am trying to keep things super lean and I'm trying to go slower. I'm not trying to beat my competition into submission right now, and that was something that was so important to me when I started my water company was I just wanted to absolutely annihilate my competition. I wanted, you know, I just I'm a competitor so I wanted to just rip their throats out, and it basically put the company in a position where we had to keep selling and do better each month because we were overextending our marketing spend. And then, when the van broke, we didn't have enough money for that, so we had to take loans out. And then I had people that stole money, so then I take loans out for that. And so that was a symptom of just trying to grow so fast to hit these stupid arbitrary numbers. A symptom of just trying to grow so fast to hit these stupid arbitrary numbers. But that was indicative of a really bad problem where my last, my last success almost ruined this one.
Speaker 1:So for those who don't know the backstory, I got out of the military after 10 and a half years, got into our treatment, started making about 20 K a month in commissions. Um got recruited to help build a solar company as a startup, like a straight startup, and obviously the last company I was at I was making good money but it was such a large company I had no growth. So I went to the solar startup and in 12 months I grew that sales team to where they were doing about 600K in top line revenue and then after that 11 months we did $25 million in top line revenue. I think I made about 350k that year was roughly what my, my, my bring home was. So it's completely changed my life and unfortunately, uh, the ownership at that time was doing some stuff that was out of control.
Speaker 1:So I made the decision to leave and go out on my own. Why? Because I just spent the last year building this other company. I felt very confident that I could do it again. Fun fact, sales skills and business skills don't translate as well as you'd hope they would, and I learned that the hard way.
Speaker 1:But because I had this huge success and I was leaving a team that was already big and cranking, I tried to implement that within my own business my new startup business. That was mine, and because I had just done 25 million in someone else's business, I was like, okay, these are the numbers I need to hit in my company and it conflated what I thought was possible. Just because I was able to do 625 million in a year in that business had no bearing. That I could do it in my business and, to be honest, I wasn't capitalized enough to do it in my business. Right, I had to buy inventory equipment this and, to be honest, I wasn't capitalized enough to do it in my business. Right, I had to buy inventory equipment, salaries, marketing, all these other costs that I just didn't quite understand fully. So I rushed which is funny because Gary V just talked about this on his stream, so this is actually pretty funny I, uh, I rushed to try to get those arbitrary revenue numbers.
Speaker 1:And here's what's funny, here's what's really funny that first year I hit one of those arbitrary revenue numbers. I, we did 950 K the first year. That was the goal. The goal is 500 K the first year, a million the second year and then, guess what? The second year we hit 1.1 million in top line revenue. But I was chasing the wrong thing, because guess how much money I made on all that revenue. But I was chasing the wrong thing, because guess how much money I made on all that? Zero literally made nothing. Um, in fact, we were losing money.
Speaker 1:Uh, because we were spending so much just to hit these numbers, we were overextending our, our service area, we were wasting money on gas, you know, we were rushing to get talent in because I had to fill the demand and I had to fill the install schedule, and all these things were happening at once and I had to still pay back, you know, the money that I had put into the business at the beginning and we had cars end up breaking. So this, all this stuff started happening and I was like, well, shit, what was the point of even going for these revenue numbers if I didn't make it? And that was a hard lesson. That revenue does not matter, profit matters. And there's an amazing book for any of my business owners out there which is called Profit First and it is basically how to be profitable from day one. And you would think like, oh yeah, justin, you know, as you start a business, profit should always be top of the mind, but it's not a lot of times.
Speaker 1:Revenue is because it feels good to say you did a lot of sales, it feels sexy to say, oh, my company did a million in the first year. That feels good, cool, it doesn't actually matter. Like now, with the gift of hindsight, I would much rather do $500,000 a year, but I keep 40% of it or 30% of it and build it that way, um, but the slower you build it, to be honest, the bigger the thing can actually go. And here's what's hilarious. I'm sure a lot of you are hearing this and you're like I have heard this before, I have. I know you got to build slow. Oh, I know you shouldn't trust partners right away. Oh, all these things, yeah, I did too.
Speaker 1:But the problem is when you actually are in it, you always think you're the special snowflake. I don't know what it is and I've seen, I know so many other small business owners have had the same dilemma where you've worked with somebody who you think is an A player and you have this, this good relationship with him, so you're like, oh, he'll be good, this will be the exception. Or you're a hard worker, so like, oh, the reason why other people can't keep up with this type of pace is because they're not hard workers. And you insert all these reasons why you think you're going to be the exception to the rule and you always see your circumstances different. I know I did and uh, yeah, it ended up just biting me in the ass the same way it bites every other entrepreneur.
Speaker 1:So you know if I could have gone back three years from now and just said, hey, justin, let's just keep the. Don't even build a big team from the beginning. Just do whatever you can do until you literally can't do it anymore. Do what you can do, sell, sell everything until you literally can't sell anymore, and then hire sales people on and then hire back operations guys on and then, you know, stay in your little market for as long as you can, um, or if you didn't like the market, just move to a whole new market and just build there first. That would have if I had just done that from the beginning and again, you can never, you can never go back, right, um, this company would be insanely big, way bigger than we were now. We'd be profiting. We'd be profiting, profiting probably 50k a month in cash flow, um, and we're not, and that is indicative of decisions that were made. Um, you know, we had a.
Speaker 1:One thing I did I spent. I spent 20 grand on uh building a partnership with a big box chain. I'm not going to mention who the chain is, enough to say that you guys would know you would know the chain if we said it. And I thought that would be a huge money grab because I saw other companies that had that partnership who were doing it. The problem was they were bigger, they were more established, they had bigger service areas they could cover. More established, they had bigger service areas they could cover and because that initial investment, because they were bigger, they were able to actually survive that hit and that blow and continue to restock the stores.
Speaker 1:I didn't so very quickly, I couldn't afford to stay there and because of that partnership they took a huge amount of the actual revenue. Huge amount of the actual revenue. So if I sold a deal, that store got about 20% of that deal. So, also being smaller, I had the unfortunate disadvantage of not having good enough you know, good enough margins on my equipment. I was spending way more on equipment. That was, you know, some of the biggest lessons I've learned. And now the good news is the business is in a better spot. We're building slowly. I have completely converted the company into a virtual model which is going to significantly help our margins and it's actually worked out way better. It turns out a lot of people enjoy not having people come into their homes, so that's been a huge, huge win into their homes. So that's been a that's been a huge, huge win, huge, huge win.
Speaker 1:Um, but, yeah, guys, that that kind of wraps up this show. Obviously, I have the um. I have you know. If you guys aren't collecting V friends, definitely get in there. If you guys want to get into some single streams, I'm going to be hosting a single stream later on today. Um, definitely make sure you guys bookmark that. If you guys have business questions, I do home service, okay, and I, like I said before, I am building up my whatnot business um as well. My hope is to have a really cranking um whatnot business here in in the next two to three years.
Speaker 1:What discord are you in um are you talking about? For the v friends cards in particular, like how to how to source those? Yeah, so, for the V friends cards in particular, like how to how to source those? Yeah, so, for the V friends cards, I'm just in the V friends, the main V friends discord, so there's a channel. If you go check out the V friends channel, you can actually say, hey, I'm looking to purchase these types of cards in bulk. But, like I was saying, so, if you go into that discord, you can actually put a. That's what I do.
Speaker 1:I put messages in there, uh, in the marketplace, and just say, hey guys, I'm looking to collect, uh, a bunch of bundled uh base cards or refracted cards or manga cards, because there's a ton of people in there who just don't want to sell them on eBay or they have a huge collection. Um, I probably have 1300 cards coming and I got really good deals on them, and then again we'll auction them off, on, on, on my whatnot streams, and you know you're not going to make a huge margin on it, which is why you need to get them for cheap, because, at the same same time, you can't auction these things off for an absorbent price on here, right, and then you buy them, yeah, exactly yeah, or you give them away, right, you give these away. And here and here's the thing, right, especially at this stage, right, if you guys are are new, new to this um, and you guys are looking at um at at starting, at starting like a whatnot? Business, uh, or live selling, which I I think is such a great idea. Um, yeah, it grows. Coach just killed it.
Speaker 1:Right, community awareness is, is, is the key key. It's not even so much about making money, especially early on. All right, making money should be the second to last thing that you're thinking of. You want to just try to give away as much as you can and then get to a point where your community is so big that in year two, year three, you know you have a ton of people coming to your shows. Um, sorry, I'm gonna reset the camera guys. Um, you have people coming to your shows. You have, um, built that trust.
Speaker 1:But here's the thing. There's also really good opportunities If you guys want to do like a AM streams a good example of this. So there are breakers who have not a lot of followers in them and you can get spots for super cheap. So the way I look at it is, the breaks are, are is gambling, like, especially now, cause a lot of these hits are already out there. If you're going to do, if you're going to do the breaks, you're definitely gambling. So you want to make sure that your, your risk is low, especially if you don't have a big bank roll to cover it. The benefit is, on these low breaks you can get some big hits right. I've got some of my biggest hits from low stream breaks where I got in for super cheap so that's the name of the game there.
Speaker 1:Then in the second place for really rare cards is look on eBay. Ebay like there's auctions on eBay guys. I got a 25 manga the other day for 50 bucks Okay, 50 bucks. I got a V friends manga off an eBay auction and I just had to take the time to scroll. A lot of people don't want to take that time to scroll. That I did. I went and found it, so I'll run that on stream and that's going to be a huge hit right for for the stream. So that's another way AM streams right, these big streamers so singles and auctions are a great place to do it.
Speaker 1:I'm going to tell you a funny story and this is the economics of how au I think this was probably two weeks ago. Am was running stream and I was literally just getting a shit ton of cards off AM right and he ran a Bethany Frankel of 10, which I ended up purchasing. All right, I bought the Bethany Frankel of 10. I think I bought it for 70 bucks, came on my stream. I ran it at a dollar, right, yeah, coach, yes, coach, remember this. So I bought this of 10 for 70 bucks. I ran a mine for a dollar. It sold for about 180 bucks. I almost doubled my money there, which then allows me to buy more cards.
Speaker 1:Right, because, again, community building, right, especially the start of this, it's all community building. So if you're trying to make money the first couple of years, don't do it. You got to build a community first. You got to build the trust. Right. And I've also ran yeah, am runs good deals and guess what? We get killed all the time and in that example I didn't get killed and the main difference was there was someone in my stream that wasn't in AM stream that really wanted that entrepreneurial card. Right, there was more demand for that one card. So in that instance I made out. I also ran a Y2K that got sold for 50% less on my stream. So it all equals out anyway.
Speaker 1:The point is, as long as you and I again treat it like a business track your numbers, track your spreadsheets, I highly recommend you start out doing the bulk buy strategy. That's what I did, you can also. One thing that I'm doing as well I'll give you some inside baseball is, now that VFriends has been out for a little while. People have base sets they've just completed. So I just bought a base set for super cheap off eBay. That base set's going to come in and guess what I'm going to do on stream when it gets in? I'm going to run a base set auction so someone can just buy an entire base set Because have the time to do it, do it. A lot of people don't have the time. They only have a couple hours maybe to go on your, your auction, your stream, and if you can offer that service to them, they'll jump right in.
Speaker 1:Breaks will break you. I'm new. The kids get, yes, breaks. Yes, breaks will break can break you for sure. Um, but breaks can also get you out your name out there into the community, right? That's actually how I kind of got started and whatnot is.
Speaker 1:I was in so many breaks and I was always buying the skeleton spot for exorbitant amounts of money. Um, you know, people start to to to learn. You know who I was. So I write that off as a marketing cost, right, it is what it is. Um, you know I was. I'm in almost every stream, right. Why? Because I want to be a part of the community and I want to give back. And now that I have more inventory and I've started to build my own momentum, now I'll do things like last night on. You know I didn't have a lot of time last night but I went into AM stream, bought a card and gave it away. Why? Because it builds brand trust and loyalty. I have a ton of cards I'm going to be selling anyway. You know there's a lot of right. Give as much as you can for free. It's typical and I'll quote Gary on this one Jab, jab, jab, jab, right, hook, right, give, give, give, give, give, give, ask, right. And that's why these $1 auctions are great.
Speaker 1:As a small streamer, I know I'm gonna get killed and you can ask anyone that's in this stream. Who's watched me for a while knows most of my streams. I get murdered because I don't have very rarely do I have more than 50 people viewers in my streams, but then every now and again I get more and then, you know, it goes up. Um, but I do want to try to list these on whatnot, or at least do the purchasing through whatnot Um. The reason why is selfishly, um, I want to be, I need to get to premier shop status, um, as a business, um, the, the, and especially if you whoever here wants to start a whatnot business or start building it, the thing that's going to just murder you is the payback times.
Speaker 1:So, cashflow business, one-on-one Um. If you have a low cashflow business, it's hard to grow the business and when you start on whatnot your cash, you're not a good cashflow business. Um, it takes me, uh, anything I make on whatnot, if I do a stream and I sell it, it takes me at least 10 to 15 days normally to get paid, because we don't get paid until the equipment arrives at the destination Um, and then it's a few hours after that and depending even, and I send out next day, um, but depending where people are located, it might take longer for packages to get there, which usually takes four to five days, um, and then it takes about another day for whatnot sometimes to register it. So building up to where you can get instant payouts is huge, which is where I'm at right now. So this, hopefully, for you guys who want to do a whatnot business, this is kind of a nice, nice, live way for you to see it being built in real time.
Speaker 1:Because you know my goal is in the next two years is when, you know, I'm thinking, when v friends tops chrome 3 comes out. That's where my head, my head is right now. I want to be at that point when chrome 3 comes out that I can absolutely buy a bajillion cases, break them all and be one of the top v friends uh streamers on here. So you see this collection back here, right, I have the entire Skelly collection, almost I got the sketch cards, I have the black. I have no five manga come and all this stuff Right, um, yeah, everyone, yeah, everyone starts somewhere.
Speaker 1:But all these right here, like here's the, here's the reality, guys, there's going to be a point where I'm going to want to make a make a big bet, right, once my community is big enough and people trust me enough and they start coming to my streams and you know I I do have that reputation in the space I'm gonna want to make a big bet and I'm gonna want to have like a big, rememberable stream, something like am, or you know, last sunday when they ran, was it like 10 cases or something I'm going to want to need to do something like that, but it's going to take time, so that entire collection at some point is going to get sold. Why? Because I'm going to try to grade it, hold its value, but at a certain point that entire collection back there is going to be incredibly valuable and it's going to make more sense for me to sell it so that way I can pursue the bigger goal of building a bigger and bigger brand within the Whatnot community and within the VFriends community. Obviously, it's going to suck to lose a collection, but you always got to remember what your priorities are and what your goal is. Right. I want to provide as much value to the community and have a massive, massive stream and continue to grow the business, because I am super passionate about business and it'd be kind of fun for everyone here to watch it happen in real time. Yeah, big bets are fun.
Speaker 1:I've made a few on breaks that have not worked out, and then I've seen some where I've chickened out and then they would have hit big right and that's again. It's the same thing with my real business and I have an open collection. Everything's always for sale for the right price and I'm always buying new things Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, and everyone has different ways they want to collect. Some people Um same thing for mine, um, it'd be. It would take an exorbitant amount of money for me to sell my Scully collection right now, but it could happen, um, but you know, I've been documenting my journey in my water treatment company for the last three years and I'm going to be documenting the whatnot journey as well and that should, hopefully, you know, you guys should see it happen in real time and, honestly, if you guys like that and you guys want to do it, you should just copy it.
Speaker 1:I am successful in the singles auctions because I copied AM's format. He was one of the biggest singles guys on there. I knew I couldn't get his inventory, but I knew I could at least do the format. And his format is so good for new collectors because, yeah, some of the stuff goes for more than it's worth, but a lot of that stuff goes underpriced, which builds a lot of inherent trust. And in the sports card world the singles are huge and in VFriends it hasn't really been a thing yet. So think about this If you can become the first in something, then you will have that market cap and you'll be known for it. Am is obviously at the peak of that.
Speaker 1:My vision, my goal, is to hopefully one day catch up with that and do the same things, um, and so that way there's multiple streams that people can go to at different times, um, and can still get the same value, which I'm super excited for. And who knows, it may not work out, but the nice thing is I do have a current business, so I'm able to cross pollinate per se, uh, the water company and this, and that's exciting. I'm excited to see where it goes. I can tell you this I definitely enjoy whatnot and doing whatnot streams 10,000 times more than my water treatment company. Dealing with homeowners and doing home service is so frustrating, I couldn't even tell you being able to open cards and trade cards and sell cards, even though right now we're below break-even. It's so fun, I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to be consistent, man. You got to have a long time horizon. The truth is, any business will succeed on a long enough time horizon. The thing that screws businesses is either you run out of money or you just give up too soon. But every company, if you take it to its natural extreme, will be successful, like if you could have enough money to do anything for the next 50 years, it would succeed. The biggest thing is people and what's great about this and again, if you guys are just tuning in and you can listen to all my other podcasts about me building the water company the biggest detriment to big business is the people.
Speaker 1:The nice thing about this is, realistically, for everyone here who wants to get into like a whatnot, live selling. You don't need it, you don't need people, you just need you right, and it's going to take a long time for you to get to the point where you need to hire a team, right. That's when you're at the point where it's like, look at what Gary and his team does, where they're running streams 24-7. That is the difference. We're going to end it here. We got real work calling. I love you guys. We'll talk to you soon. You, you, you.