EP #134: Epic Martial Arts with Daniel Paul and Joshua Norton

When Daniel Paul and Joshua Norton first stepped onto the mat at Epic Martial Arts, little did they know they were setting out on a transformative journey that would not only redefine their own lives but also inspire a thriving community. This episode peels back the layers of martial arts, revealing its power to sculpt confidence, spark teaching passions, and shape life philosophies. Our guests, the driving forces behind Epic Martial Arts, recount the evolution of their program from a small offering at Wow Fitness to a resilient beacon of strength amidst the trials of the pandemic. As they share their narratives, you'll be captivated by the depth and richness martial arts can add to one's existence.

The narrative then shifts to a vibrant canvas where the profound strokes of martial arts training paint a brighter future for children. Daniel and Joshua elaborate on how the discipline and respect fostered through martial arts seamlessly blend into the academic and personal lives of their young students. Listen to heartwarming success stories that go beyond kicks and punches, as we unveil how martial arts principles are tailored to enhance focus, impulse control, and even academic performance. And as if the journey within the dojo wasn't compelling enough, the episode also ventures into the nitty-gritty of running a martial arts business. Our guests shed light on the hurdles they've overcome and the victories that have shaped Epic Martial Arts into the thriving community it is today.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

This is the good neighbor podcast, the place where local businesses and neighbors come together. Here's your host, stacy Polar.

Speaker 2: 0:13

Hey there, everybody. Today we are going to be learning about epic martial arts. We are here with one of the owners, daniel Paul, and the head trainer or coach, joshua Norton. Welcome guys.

Speaker 3: 0:25

Hey, welcome, good to see you guys.

Speaker 2: 0:27

Yeah, we're excited to chat, so why don't you start off by telling us about the business?

Speaker 3: 0:32

well. We started out inside of Wow Fitness a little over 10 years ago just as a satellite program and we really focused on making sure that we ingrained ourselves with the community and growing slow. There were definitely opportunities that we could have tried to be bigger faster, but we really wanted to make sure we took our time, made a lot of decisions that that ended up working well for us. Especially. We were very prepared for COVID and and some of the things that happened there. That hit our industry in a in general really hard, but we were kind of ahead of the curve on it and We've been very grateful to the Woodstock community for being very supportive and and continuing to help us as we grow. And One of the things that you know we do camps, we do after school and we do evening classes and we're just very fortunate to be here and and to have the community that we have.

Speaker 2: 1:28

Awesome, awesome. Well, why don't we kind of hear from each of you a little bit about your journey and how you got into martial arts? You want to start off, joshua.

Speaker 4: 1:37

Yeah, I can. Um, actually, Typically, when people sign their kit up for karate, it's because maybe they have behavior issues or because they need daycare or some kind of aftercare. My experience was a lot different as a kid. When I was in elementary school, there was a really good competition team that visited my school and Every since that day, immediately when I got home, I was like, alright, mom, sign me up for karate Right now. You know it was. I didn't want to do anything else after that and it was to the point where I enjoyed it so much after I got my black belt. Um, I did it all the way up through high school and college. I did competitions and I kind of just wanted to live what I saw when I was a little kid, and I think that's what gave me that fire, and that fire still lit.

Speaker 2: 2:28

Awesome.

Speaker 3: 2:29

Now about you, daniel well, um, I grew up on the south side of Atlanta, a place called Clayton County, and there was definitely there were some parts of my childhood that I came across paths with some other kids that We'll just say. We were all a little rough around the edges and I didn't have a lot of confidence as a child. I was very shy, very shy, and Nobody thinks that these days. But my mom saw the the importance of building my confidence and so she put me in martial arts and, I'll be honest, as I was getting close to my black belt, I I really felt like, okay, I'm ready to do something else and I wasn't really putting my best effort in and I ended up failing a black belt test and it was like I thought after this test I was, you'll be done, and they only happened every six months and it really Made me say okay, well, I'm not gonna let this thing defeat me. And I really came back even stronger. I trained almost every day for six months and I ended up passing the next black belt test.

Speaker 3: 3:32

But a real big transformation happened in that six months. One of my instructors was like you're here all the time, why don't you come help me with this little kids class and I started being invited on the mat to help other kids and I actually found a passion for teaching. I never knew that was there and I had an instructor open that door and that pathway for me and after got my black belt, my mom was like, okay, you did it, are you done? And I was like, no, and it, this is it. And you know, I've been doing martial arts a little over 30 years now and the passion for teaching is really what? In seeing what I can do for others and help inspire them is what really drives what we do.

Speaker 2: 4:11

Awesome, awesome. Why don't you guys share a little bit about me some of the misconceptions that are out there or the myths about martial arts? You know, I think everybody thinks about it, you know in terms of exercise and fighting, but you know it really does go beyond that and it would be great if you can share a little bit more with the audience about what.

Speaker 3: 4:33

Yeah, sorry, yeah, absolutely. I'll touch a little bit on this and I'm sure mr Norton has a couple of things to say on it. A lot of times I, I'll be honest I've had parents sitting here doing orientation and they're like we're looking for something to put between soccer and baseball and ultimately that conversation comes down to the point is, I don't think we're the right fit for that child, because the types of things we're trying to teach the kid, like you said, is going to be different for every child. But it could be focused, it could be discipline, it could be respect, it could be learning impulse control, it could be gross and fine motor skills, it could be on the physical side.

Speaker 3: 5:07

But some of the things that we do just take time and we have a very flexible schedule meant to allow kids to have that versatility of schedule so that when swimming comes up in the summer you don't have to say, oh well, karate's Monday and Wednesday and the swim team says Monday and Wednesday, well, karate can become Tuesday, thursday or Thursday, friday or Friday, saturday. We offer classes six days a week and it's designed to be flexible so that it can fit in around those other things. But it takes time to build the type of stuff we're talking about. We send home report cards where the kids get graded on how they're doing at home, where they get graded on how they're doing at school, and those things are important and a requirement for them to move to their next belt when the belt test comes.

Speaker 4: 5:45

I can say the same. For me it's discipline. It's a really big misconception. People believe that you come in and it's instant. Sometimes that's what people look for instant results. But that discipline can fall in all kinds of categories. You know, even when you start a job or you start college or you start any type of activity or hobby, you don't want to do it for six months and then be done. It's something where it teaches you to follow through and finish everything you start. That's why I like it for my kids, because sometimes my kids like to just pick up something and put it back down. I can relate it to them eating their dinner at night. I can relate it to anything, because you never want to be the person to start something and say, well, I could have finished, or what. If that's something that it just really ingrains in you or it teaches you, you know I've started it, I need to finish it and then I can move on. That's a really big misconception that a lot of people say.

Speaker 2: 6:48

And you know I'm sure, in addition to kind of working with the kids, you're sort of working alongside their parents and helping the parents to, you know, instill the types of skills and the kids that you know they want to see. Can you talk a little bit about that and about, like, the parenting side of martial arts?

Speaker 3: 7:06

Absolutely. I definitely think that you're very much onto a point that a lot of parents came here seeking help but not realizing exactly what all we had to offer. And it's always hard because every family is different. What each individual parent is looking for or the piece that they're missing is going to be unique to them. But I can tell you that I have parents every week especially new parents come up and go holy cow. I told my kid I was going to tell the coach how they were behaving and then, all of a sudden, I had leverage that I've never seen with my child before. All of a sudden, my child was motivated to do what I needed them to do and they didn't talk back and they were oh, you're not going to tell coach, like, I'm going to look, I'm listening, I'm falling directions, and that level of accountability comes from trust. As the kids learn to trust their coaches and know that their coaches are there to help them be better and to do things that they never saw or thought that they could do, they begin to trust the coach more and more. And as the kid trusts the coach, the parents also begin to trust our process, because the other thing is I'll give one quick example.

Speaker 3: 8:15

I had a parent walk in this a little over a year ago and they said I'm sorry, mr Paul, we're going to pull our son out. He's failing everything in school. And I said he's failing. Well, you guys haven't told us anything about what's going on. And this is a student who was in middle school. He was trying to adjust to the new homework load and he was just overwhelmed. I could tell he was swamped and I said, yeah, he spends five or six hours a day on homework. He just can't get it all done. It's getting, you know, getting in completes and doing bad test grades and he just he can't be motivated. I said, well, if I had to go to school and then I had to go and do five or six hours of homework every single day and didn't get a positive response and was told, hey, you're not doing enough, you're not doing good, I wouldn't be motivated either.

Speaker 3: 8:58

So we took a change and the parents really the trust that we had, they'd been training over a year, they really trusted me on it. And I told him look, let's figure out what's hard. And I said for him his focus is a very finite amount of focus. What do you say is an appropriate amount of time for homework. And they said well, we think he should be done in less than two hours. I said, great, two hours is the only amount of time that he gets to spend on homework. And then, regardless of where he's at, he's done. And I put him on a timer.

Speaker 3: 9:30

We took a little bit of trial and error but we found out between five and seven minutes was his golden point. So he'd spend five to seven minutes on math and then take math and set it down, pick up social studies, spend five to seven minutes on social studies. And he only had one prerogative. It wasn't finished the homework, it was if you answer a question, it has to be right. And he just focused on getting questions right and then turning in incomplete homework. I said don't worry about what the teacher says. They tell you it's not enough, you're already failing. You can't. You hit the bottom. There's nowhere else to go but up. Just focus on getting the information right.

Speaker 3: 10:00

And by the end of this they decided to keep training. We kept doing these weekly checkups with him and by the end of the first semester he went from failing grades to being a C student. By the end of the second semester he was on AB, and so he had some classes were A, some were B, and all of a sudden he started knowing the answers to the test because he was focused on getting it right and not worried about finishing it. And so it was that misconception. The parents thought it all had to be done. Well, by the time that he got caught up with the rest of the class, all the homework was getting done, and it was getting done inside two hours.

Speaker 3: 10:30

But he was past the point of exhaustion and they were expecting a result. But they weren't getting a result, and so they were just upset with him. And so we changed that dynamic with that family and he ended up thriving in school after that. But it was, they just couldn't see that solution. And that's where us, as coaches, you know that had nothing to do with a punch, a kick or a self-defense move. It had to do with the trust. And that's just one of my most recent stories that I can tell you about how we've helped families, but it happens every week here.

Speaker 4: 11:01

I tell families all the time we're very different than a school teacher, because you know you typically see your school teacher for a year and then you go, move on to another teacher and you move on to another teacher. You know you only remember a few of those school teachers, but a karate teacher is a lifetime. It's a real mentor, it's a family member, it's someone who you can actually, you know, get build a real bond with. And I tell them all the time I've known families for years you know we go out and you know we might do take the kids to the zoo or you know we might all meet up at a bowling alley and you know that's just not what you get in any other sport, I believe.

Speaker 2: 11:45

It sounds like you guys really kind of you know, put your heart into what you do and it's more than a job for you both, it's a lifestyle. What do you do for fun when you're not there?

Speaker 3: 12:00

Well, one of my hobbies is now soon becoming one of Mr Norton's hobbies. I do believe in the creative process and I believe in being able to be productive and make things, and so I like an outlet for my creativity. So I've recently I say recently, probably the last three or four years got into 3D printing and I 3D print things for the kids and everything else. My friend, I've got a student who's he's five, but he's struggling with using proper language while on the bus and I told him if he can get two weeks without using language, that he shouldn't and using potty words, that he would have something really cool. So I printed him this cool dragon and this is gonna be sitting on the bus this week as a reminder so that his bus driver will be like, hey, remember two weeks and you get that.

Speaker 3: 12:46

And we're doing different things to try and encourage the kids and it's just for me it's just fun. I used to do rock climbing. My body doesn't let me do that as much anymore. Still work out of the gym, do a little bit of yoga on top of what we do with martial arts, but really the 3D print is the one I enjoy the most.

Speaker 4: 13:03

Fine fine All the same. He's got me caught up in this 3D printing thing and now I just can't get away from it. And it's a good thing because you know it keeps me at the house with my kids and it's something that we all can learn from. And what was a good thing was right after I purchased my 3D printer. My daughter came home and said dad, my class just got a 3D printer, so now I get to kind of share what we do at home and she can be very knowledgeable with this stuff at school and help her teacher and all of her classmates.

Speaker 2: 13:34

What are some of the things that you guys have printed at home?

Speaker 4: 13:39

Definitely printed tons of phone holders and iPad holders for my kids, I think. I did a you did a phone case, I did a phone case, oh, and I printed a super giant Spider-Man like action figure for my sister.

Speaker 2: 13:54

Wow, wow.

Speaker 3: 13:57

Yeah, one of the ones I did. My son is a little ADD and I printed a chart that is like a chore chart but it has toggle buttons that flip whether green check mark I did it X, I haven't done it, and we can change out the tags, my wife and I, and be able to put different tasks on there. And she was like, hey, we need a list for the morning and evening, remember to train the dog and do different things. And so I said I'm sure there's something online. I went and found somebody's file, printed it out and it's been working great for us.

Speaker 2: 14:28

Awesome. It seems like there's endless possibilities with that. Very fun. I'm kind of looking back and you know and both of you thinking about you know everything that's led you up to this point. Can you think about maybe some challenges or obstacles that you had to work through and maybe share with us a little bit about how you overcame those hardships?

Speaker 4: 14:52

Definitely. Before I came along here a few years ago where I think it was seven, six or seven years ago, I was a. I owned my own martial arts school and it was. You know, my fire is still lit. So right after college, I took all the money I had and I said, hey, I'm going to open up this karate school.

Speaker 4: 15:12

The thing is I had no, I didn't have the proper training, the guidance. I didn't even work in a martial arts school Well, maybe like as an assistant coach or something like that, but not really administrative work and all of that. And I thought, you know, I told my wife, I said, hey, I could just do it all by myself. And that was the issue. You have to have a strong team, you have to have people you can rely on and people who you can get advice from. I think that's very important, especially when you know you're you're working with children and you know you're teaching more than just karate. And I think that was one of my, you know, downfalls. I didn't have the support that I needed. But once I came along here, it it was. It was a big game changer.

Speaker 2: 15:57

Awesome.

Speaker 3: 16:00

Well, earlier I said, you know, we took the time to be able to build slow, and there's there's lots of ways that you can build a business a lot faster. You can borrow money, you can do things like that. And ultimately, one of the biggest challenges is, you know, we got a lease in our first space and we went very slim on our build out. It finishes weren't super nice and we just, you know, we were getting by, we were growing the school and we had, we had, an option we could have. We could have opened a second location or we could have decided to expand our current location. And you know, the build out that was, that was, taking over twice as much space and and making that choice. And then we had another space, we had a small taining bed place next to us and they went out of business and we had an opportunity to take their lease and took over a third space. And each time you do that, it's, you know, you got to take a leap of faith. We had to make the decision that, hey, we're going to, we're going to buy a second, you know, after school vehicle, we're going to buy a bus. And, you know, spend, you know, 20 to $30,000 on a bus and spend twice that building out an additional side of the building and and doing it in a way that that we don't incur that debt was meant that we waited until we had the ability to show you know, hey, we can make that growth. And we took care of it.

Speaker 3: 17:27

And I think that fact is what made us able to survive COVID, had we been overextended in something like COVID hit and we lost probably half of our students over the span of 24 hours, with everybody saying everything's locked down, we're canceling. And I had the other half, probably a little less than half of our families. They still supported us through that time. They it was. We were very fortunate to have some families that said, hey, you know. We said, look, we're going to get a little bit of credit. We said, look, we're going to give you back in credit everything that you spend on your regular monthly tuition for after school when at one school's back, and we're going to give you half again that credit. And so we made a really good deal. Those families didn't end up having to cover any other summer camp expenses because they had enough credit built up and they ended up with a great opportunity, but again it was. We've done right by so many families that they trusted that we would be there, and they did right by us.

Speaker 3: 18:20

And I think that the way that we structure our business to be community driven is really why we're still here today, because COVID, I mean over. Most people don't realize this in our industry. Over 20% of all martial arts businesses went out of business when COVID hit. It was a. It's probably higher than that, but some of them reopened, so they kind of say that it's between 20 and 25% were gone. And we're still here today because our community supported us.

Speaker 3: 18:51

And I think that our community that we build in the how we get involved with the kids at their schools.

Speaker 3: 18:59

We go and be PE coach for the week where we'll go and talk to the school teachers when they're having trouble with one of our kids and come up with a game plan to work hand in hand with teachers to help them be able to see some of the tools that we have success with and just focusing on the kids and putting the kids first.

Speaker 3: 19:17

Yeah, we're a business, we had to keep the lights on, we had to pay the staff, but ultimately it's putting the kids first. That has really been the key to our success, and also the decision to put the kids first, even when it may not be the most business sense decision. There are certain things that we've done that have definitely been on the customer's value and more about their experience than it was about being good business sense and about the dollar, and I think that that's that. Making those decisions are hard, especially when you do make a decision that you know you're losing money on right. How is this gonna be sustainable? Is this gonna work for our community? And the community has been there for us every time and I just can't be thankful enough for what they've done for us.

Speaker 2: 20:08

That's amazing. Yeah, it sounds like you know you're pouring into the community and that obviously takes time and energy, and now you've kind of seen it be able to come back to you, which is really nice. Absolutely Anything else you guys wanna share about the business that you haven't had a chance to say.

Speaker 3: 20:29

Well, one thing I really think that makes us stand out is our approach, like when it comes to things like our summer camp. Matter of fact, there's some things that we're doing that are so I don't really wanna call it cutting edge, because it's not like it's never been done in camp before, but when you combine it with martial arts and you combine it with all the other things that we bring to the table, it's definitely a different approach, and so much so that Mr Norton and myself and some members of our team actually coach other karate schools all across the nation on how to do some of these things. So there are things that we're doing that are very much industry leading and like, for example, when we run our camps, we like a model that is called a dynamic model, whereas most of the time you think about camp, you think about you have a teenage camp counselor and 10 kids and they go around and do little activities, but what happens when one of those kids is having a bad day? They're just having a meltdown, they're like I don't wanna be here. Then every kid in that group feels like they had a bad day because they didn't get to do all the activities or this kid was dragging them down. Those emotions run high in groups and a lot of times those groups are all just the same age group kids In a dynamic model. We take our best trained staff, our chief instructors, our lead instructors. We take them and they run big activities, the things like obstacle courses and everything else. So you have a variety of different age group kids all together, because for an obstacle course it's not competitive, it's not tug of war, it's not dodge ball.

Speaker 3: 22:00

I'm not worried about having a six year old and a nine year old in the same group because they're not doing anything that's gonna potentially hurt each other and it allows for the older kids to learn those leadership qualities. And it also means that when I have that same kid that's having a bad day, instead of having a teen helper try and jungle group activity and be able to help the kid that's upset, I can say, hey, that kid's having a bad day, go help them, have a great day. And they can go make that kid turn their attitude around or give them the time they need or let them go get water whatever that child needs and I can put a teen helper on that, while I know that I have one of my lead instructors running the big activities and by giving the kids that freedom or they say, hey, my friend's over in that group, you're not locked by age. Hey, okay, if you wanna go be with a younger group, go be with a younger group. Some kids play better with younger kids. Some kids played better when they have older kids around them and we're able to really find what's best for each camper.

Speaker 3: 22:54

And I really think that some of the things that we do with our summer camp and our camps are really unique. Not a lot of places do it and I think that if somebody were looking at, hey, maybe this is what we're looking for for our child, I'm gonna do a special for just any of your listeners. So if somebody says, hey, I heard about you guys on the Good Neighbor podcast, normally we do two classes in a uniform for about $49. If they mention your podcast, they're gonna get it for $25. That's less than my cost on the uniform. And if they say, hey, we just wanna try it out, we wanna come see you guys and see what it's about, they just have to mention the podcast and they'll get two classes in a uniform for $25. And if they wanna try camp. We have our summer camp stuff dropping on February 1st.

Speaker 2: 23:40

Cool, cool. So just to repeat anybody who's out there listening they can bring their child and they can do two classes and also get a uniform for $25.

Speaker 3: 23:51

That's it. Yes, ma'am, All they gotta do is bring up the podcast.

Speaker 2: 23:55

Awesome and can you share kind of your contact info where you're located, social media where folks can find you?

Speaker 3: 24:01

Absolutely so. If you look for us on Facebook, you just have to type in Epic Woodstock, that'll pull up our page. Same thing we are located off of Townlake Parkway, beside Orange Theory Fitness, in Nature's Corner Market, and then if you just type in Epic Martial Arts Woodstock, it will pull up our web page. In Google, it'll pull up our web link and our website. If you plug in your info, usually you'll get a phone call directly from me sometime that day.

Speaker 2: 24:29

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you sharing with us today, daniel and Josh.

Speaker 3: 24:33

Absolutely, Ms Fuller. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 24:34

All right. Well, you guys have a great day.

Speaker 3: 24:37

All right, you too. Bye-bye, See ya.

Speaker 1: 24:39

Thank you for listening to the Good Neighbor podcast Milton and Moore. To nominate your favorite local businesses to be featured on the show, go to GNPMiltoncom. That's GNPMiltoncom, or call 470-664-4930.