How Achievable is Perfection? with Aliya Cheyanne

Aliya Cheyanne came on the show to discuss her online consulting business and algorithms in social media! We also discussed the importance of self improvement, especially in the arts where it is extremely difficult to achieve perfection. 

Check her out here!
Website: https://www.aliyacheyanne.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theprolifichubpod?igsh=MTZxZzZpOWJzaWJtMw==
Podcast:  https://theprolifichubpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

Thank you all for listening! Follow me on Instagram at @dissectingdance for current updates on postings and more!

Transcript

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Hello, everybody, and welcome to today's podcast episode. Today we have a special guest. Special guest, say hi. Hi, everyone. I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much for coming. Would you like to introduce yourself before we get started? Yes, I'm happy to. So I'm so excited to be here today. My name is Aliyah Brown. I go by Aliyah Cheyenne online. I am a fellow podcaster. I have a podcast called the Prolific Hub podcast, which celebrates all things like self-improvement and creative entrepreneurship. And in addition to that, I'm an entrepreneur myself. I have a consulting business that works to support individuals and nonprofits to develop their communication strategies and brand identity. So I'm really excited to be here to chat more today. Yay. Awesome. Awesome. So as you know, this is a dance-based podcast. So we're going to pull from your experiences and blend it into the dance industry and how that can help the dance industry. And of course, talking more about your podcast, because this is also my very first collaboration with another podcaster. So very exciting. Yes, very exciting. Oh, yay. Look at that. Yes. That's so cool. Okay. So with every episode, I like to start with a fun fact. And this is kind of pertaining to the entrepreneurship, kind of. I tried to keep it related, but out of the kajillion people that dance as children, only Only about 10% of them go on to dance professionally. Wow. That's really, that's a really interesting statistic. Wow. I've never thought about that before. That's a small percentage, but shout out to all of the people that keep it going into adulthood. Exactly. Yeah. It's a big accomplishment to be able to continue dancing for as long as these people have. I think before social media, it was like down to like 2 to 5%. So I think social media is helping with that, keeping things going. Yeah, I think so too. We have so much exposure online and one thing I actually like about social media, I know everyone has different experiences online, but it's the fact that you can find, you know, people with similar interests, you can find community online. So I love the idea that maybe dancers are finding their community online, like maybe in local areas across the world and, you know, are feeling inspired and sharing their work with others. Like, I think that's really cool. Absolutely. I do know, I do know a couple people who have actually gotten opportunities just based on their social media. Like someone found their page, really liked their movement or their aesthetic or whatever it was, and they were able to get involved in like projects and stuff just based on social media alone. So especially nowadays, social media definitely plays a huge role in, you know, being a dancer. People want to see that dancers have a social media account in order to be noticed. Yeah. Yeah, so I would like to hear more about your consulting business. What could you provide for dancers or small businesses associated with dance, et cetera? Yeah, that's a great question. So my consulting work has largely supported small businesses and nonprofit organizations that typically don't have the capacity, as we like to call it, in this world to lead in-depth communication strategies. Like maybe it's a budgetary issue, why they can't maybe hire a full-time person to perform a role. Maybe it's a capacity issue, like maybe they have, I know particularly in nonprofits, there are a number of them where there are folks who come on board to perform a certain job, but they end up performing the jobs of other team members or the roles and responsibilities of other positions because sometimes some of those spaces are just under-resourced and they don't have a full team to really do what they need to do. And where my work comes in is that I'm kind of the middle person. I don't require the overhead and the salary that comes with hiring a person full-time to perform some of these tasks. I come on as a consultant to really take a look at the strategy that the organization has employed thus far. What sort of things have they put out there in the digital space, but also in traditional media? What is their branding look like and what sort of aesthetics should they have showing up online? I take an analysis, I take stock of all of those things and I put forth options and proposals that make it simpler for the business to implement strategies that can support them. Some small businesses and some nonprofits in particular, they may struggle with setting up basic things online so that they're easily discoverable online. Or I've worked with clients in the past who maybe they didn't set up their Google Business page and I've supported them to do that so that folks actually know, hey, this is a business that exists at this location. You can be here during these hours. I see things like that as big as supporting nonprofit organizations who maybe didn't have a huge digital footprint online in the past, but over time have been able to grow accounts to thousands of followers to help to support and boost their mission and the advocacy work that they do. I think as it pertains to small businesses and dancers, it's really developing that brand identity. We hear a lot in the communications and marketing space that everyone is a brand, like individual people can be brands as much as actual entities or products can be brands. We're really living in a time now where putting forth a personal brand is important. You mentioned that you know dancers who have been discovered online because maybe someone reached out because they liked their account or their aesthetic or their way they move or their vibe, that is essentially developing a personal brand. So perhaps for dancers who are looking to start online profiles or accounts in ways that they haven't before, whether that be on TikTok or Instagram or YouTube, or maybe for folks who are looking to sort of rebrand the way that they've typically displayed their art, working with a consultant, someone who works in communications, who can support with that process, who can also be looking for avenues to get that dancer traction or that small business traction in not just digital media, but traditional media is really important. And that's sort of been the role that I have played as a consultant, largely working with nonprofits and small businesses. Great. Thank you for that. So basically like what you're talking about is just making sure that, I'm just going to reiterate everything that you just said. So you're a consultant who evaluates people's social media, whether it would be like a person who is looking to get themselves out there, or if it's like a small business or a nonprofit business, and overall providing feedback and ideas, is that correct? Yeah, I think that's a great way to summarize it. In short, I, you know, sometimes it depends on the organization, how large they are, like what big the footprint is, but ultimately it's assessing the situation and providing strategies to make it better. I just recently started working with a new nonprofit organization and have been in the throes of developing a new branding kit for them and revamping the way they show up online and building out an actual communication strategy for the organization, because they typically have not had that in the past. They've just kind of been throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks, and I've come in to say like, hey, we're not going to do that anymore, like let's actually map out some processes and procedures for how we can execute certain things on the communications front. And that's been really, it's been a challenge, but an exciting challenge and a fun one. It pushes the organization, it pushes me as well, so yeah, it's been good. That's good, and I definitely know that oftentimes when people do try to start out with their own brand or their own platform, that's oftentimes what happens is that you just kind of throw things out there and hope for the best, even though there actually does need to be strategy and more thought out ways of doing things. Yeah, absolutely. So with your expertise in consulting, do you know much about the algorithm of specific social media sites? Yeah, that's a good question. I think one thing that's been really interesting, and I can go maybe talk about a few platforms at a time, but one thing that's been really interesting about Instagram is that Instagram is always changing their algorithm. They're always introducing new features. They're always switching things around. I know one thing they did recently was instead of focusing on likes per se and shares per se, now the huge focus is on views, which has shifted a lot for smaller accounts, whether that be individuals or businesses that don't have huge followings, that has changed some things for them. We're in a place now as well on Instagram where historically for folks who have wanted to do aerosols, you have more room now to do longer, long form posts on a carousel instead of 10. You can do 20 now. You can get more information out there. You can share more images. I think one thing that I really love about Instagram is the fact that you can still go a long way with reels and videos and pushing new content out there. I'm learning that for myself, for my podcast, but I'm also seeing that play out in real time for some of the clients that I'm working with. And Instagram in a lot of ways, despite being its own platform, is trying to mimic platforms like TikTok. In other ways, they're introducing more aspects when it comes to music, like you can now add a song or a theme song to your profile and they're pushing music more now as well. So I think that's really interesting. For TikTok, TikTok is, well, depending on who you are, TikTok can be a really fun place or a place that kind of like swallows all of your time for hours at a time, depending on discipline and everything else. But one thing that I really like about TikTok is that at its core, it's a platform that allows people to discover new music and to discover new people pretty easily. So, you know, when you start following people, it's a kind of you might start seeing folks like still on your for you page. But a lot of times some of us have noticed when we follow folks, unless we go directly to following, we don't always see those folks content as much because TikTok is pushing new accounts that may or may not have been familiar to you before on your for you page. And I think that's really cool, too. I think what I like most about that platform, and some people might find it creepy, but I don't, in that if I'm looking for certain things, it's so easy to find it. In some ways, TikTok is trying to be a similar, not completely similar, but a like search engine in the way that we've historically used YouTube. Like, it's so easy to search within TikTok and find very niche things in the same way that you can use YouTube like a search engine. So that's what I really like about TikTok. They have been pretty straightforward. There are times where certain content might be suppressed or pushed more than others, but it has historically remained a platform where you can discover new sounds, you can discover new accounts, some small, some big, some that are kind of tailored to your taste. The more you spend time on the app and the more you interact with certain types of content. And then what I love about YouTube is what I was mentioning before, that it works like a search engine. It is a part of Google. Like, they want you to get on that platform and search for very specific things that you're interested in. So the more you can, for lack of better words, because we hate these buzz terms, like optimize your title and use search engine optimization, like all of these things. Like, if you are very particular with the way that you title your videos and things that you post on YouTube, you're very specific with the types of hashtags that you use with your videos so that it can, you know, reach the audience that you're trying to reach. If you put time and effort into the thumbnails that you use for your videos, all of these things pull in to support you so that people who are looking for your stuff can find you that much easier. So I really love YouTube for that, and that can be accomplished in longer form videos as well as with shorts, like shorts can go a long way as well. So those are some things that I really like about those kinds of platforms. Right, yeah, those are all great things. I definitely think that like Instagram is great for both like discovering new people as well as still being able to see the people that you want to see on your feed for sure. Yeah, TikTok is questionable for me because it feels like for the algorithm on TikTok, it's like, now I, like, it's like the most random things go viral on TikTok, which is like, like, that's what that feels like is that you'll have like one thing go viral. And then unless it's some like gossip story, you probably won't expect any views from any other videos or depending on like what you put out there, of course. I did hear though, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I did hear on TikTok that the way to bring people in to like to get into the algorithm is that you have to be live for like two hours straight. I don't know if that's true. But I heard that somewhere. And then of course, like YouTube is my favorite. I love YouTube. Yeah, yeah. So I see certain creators, even creators that I like and I follow. I don't always tune into their lives, but I do. They go live quite often and I know that helps as well. I, you know, people go live for different reasons. Like there are a lot of folks who, I don't know, it's like one creator I follow, like she'll go live like just to talk and connect with her audience and update folks. And I like, I personally like those kinds of lives. She'll be on there for a while. I won't always stay for all of that. But a lot of other creators, you know, like they're doing battles and playing games and having people gift them and all kinds of stuff like that. Like people are making whole like, I don't know, professions out of this, I guess, for lack of better terms. And yeah, I think it's very interesting. I do know that, you know, for folks that you follow, if they are going live more frequently, unless you've turned those notifications off, you are more likely to get them and maybe be interested because they are people that you're following. It definitely supports them with their engagement and connecting with their audience because not only are they just going live to go live, but they're continuing to foster their community and build trust with them and engage with them and talk to them. So that absolutely helps particular creators. But there's a number of reasons why folks might do it. And, you know, the two hour thing is news to me, but I have seen people like, you know, I'll get a notification that they've gone live and like, I'll go on TikTok like hours later or something. And I'll see the person is still live or maybe they took a break back on it. I'm just like, really like, yeah, it's wild. Absolutely wild. Yeah. The one live that I've encountered is literally, there'll be like, there's like a TikToker who will like repost clips from TV shows. And this person like at like midnight every night will just have random like trivia cards for different TV shows and play trivia for hours on end with their fans. And let me just say it did work. It worked for me. I started following this account. You see, you're in that way because eventually you're interested in it. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I don't like, I don't like watching their videos, but I do love their trivia nights. That's a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Way to like foster, you know, some sense of community or like, you know, interaction or engagement, like for folks who enjoy like various types of, you know, like things like that, or whether it's trivia or other kinds of lives, like it fosters a sense of community. It's a fun activity. You're kind of engaging with like minds. And I think that's pretty cool actually. So yeah. Yeah. Now we have to figure out how to get podcasters online for two hours straight. All right. Well, you know, there are some platforms that will let you like do it. It's just like building up the followings over there. Like, yeah, people use like Twitch for like game live streaming and other things, but you can technically do your pod, like do live podcasts over there, do like live podcasting on YouTube and things like that. But yeah, things to explore. That's true. But you still have to like build the algorithm and like the, all that. Yeah. So yeah, this is like all very insightful information. So I thank you for that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking. Take your time. But also thank you for asking great questions because, you know, that's how we pull these things out, you know? Of course. Yeah. I'm glad I can. I'm glad that you like the questions. Okay. Well, I guess more about you. So what got you into social media? Like what got you into the consulting, the social media business? Yeah, that's a great question. So when I graduated from undergrad, I was trying to figure a lot of things out. And I knew that personally, a lot of my passions were around various kinds of social justice issues, which is how I got into like, first working in government and then shifting over to nonprofits. So I have worked in organizations that supported affordable housing. I've worked in organizations that supported criminal justice reform. I've worked at organizations that supported food justice in communities that might not have access to healthy and affordable food. And the through line through all of those things has always been social justice. In those roles with those organizations, I've always served on the policy team and or the communications team because in a lot of organizations, but especially in nonprofits, policy and communications go hand in hand. One supports the other. They are intrinsically linked. So that has been sort of my professional training. I had continued working in those roles, and then I actually started doing consulting jobs on the side of that. So everything from training folks who were onboarding at a nonprofit and were new to their department, whether that be comms or policy, like training them, getting them up to speed, everything from training folks around project management, and then of course, supporting organizations that were looking to build communications and digital media strategies. I had just kind of been taking on those opportunities on the side of my regular job and then did that for a number of years starting. I want to say the first one I took on was in 2020. This is the first year, 2024, the time that we're recording this, that I've taken it on seriously and passionately to really be serious and intentional about bringing new clients on and doing it not just as a side thing, but doing it as my primary work. I stepped away from the job I was working at earlier this year to pursue this full time, and it's been really fruitful to free up space to be able to support other organizations in this capacity. In my consulting work, I typically take on contracts for a given period of time. It could be anything from three months, anything to up to a year at a time. In that regard, it's a little bit different than a traditional role when you can't necessarily predict how long you're going to be there, but you'll be there for a time. This way, I know I'm going to be working and supporting an organization or an individual for a set period of time, and we decide at the end if we would like to continue together, if there's additional work that needs to be done, or if they feel ready and prepared enough to take on what I've built out for them and keep moving it forward. That has been my primary function in consulting. It stems a lot from having done communications and policy work for over a decade and now stepping into a space where I am doing that for myself and supporting organizations and helping them to build out their own strategies. It's so cool how you came from an activist standpoint to a social media standpoint. That's a pipeline I did not even think about. It's really cool that you've come from the activist perspective into pushing people to get noticed. I don't know why it hasn't occurred to me that that pipeline exists. That's really cool. That just means you're more passionate about getting people to be seen, and I think that's amazing. Yeah. Thank you so much for that. I think it's really cool, too. I think what I love most is that it's typically work that I'm actually really passionate about in my own life. I know that it matters, and I know the value of it, and I know the impact that it brings to the communities that these organizations serve and the work that they're doing. Being a part of the journey and the process to help amplify their work and amplify their message, and when they're asked of advocacy and policy reform, being able to help educate people about certain legislative matters, too, is really exciting. It's really cool to be able to be in this sort of position and support organizations in that way, especially ones who are doing such incredible work. It's very, very cool. I think that also connects to your self-improvement concept. I don't want to word it as concept, but I know that that's a big part of your podcast, is improving upon yourself, and I think that's a great way of doing that. Yeah, that's a good point. Self-improvement is definitely one of the aspects of my podcast. You know it's really funny. It's not funny, but it's funny, and it also hurt my heart at the same time. I went to a podcasting conference, and I was listening to a couple of panelists talking about different shows and stuff like that. One of the panelists was talking about how they love shows that are more comedy, lighthearted, stuff like that, and then they were like, yeah, if it's about self-help, self-improvement, get it out of here. I don't want to hear any of that. I was just like, wow, my heart. But also, stuff like that, to take that completely personally would have also been nuts of me. I was just like, I am putting my work out there. I'm proud of it. It supports me. It supports my community, and those who are meant to find it will find it, but I love the journey of self-improvement. I think it's so important that we each aspire to grow and evolve and become the best versions of ourselves in every capacity, and I love being able to interview people who are walking that path on my show and sharing that vulnerability myself from my own experience on my show. The version of Aaliyah that's here now talking on this podcast is not the same version of Aaliyah that was here a year ago or 10 years ago. It's our life's journey to grow and evolve and become our best selves, and I love to uplift that on my show because we should be growing. We shouldn't be staying in one place forever. It's the nature of the human spirit to just find our mission, find our purpose, and be the best version of ourselves. I love to fold that into the larger podcast because it is about creative entrepreneurship, and there are so many things that come up professionally in this space, and I imagine it's pretty similar for dance too. You grow and you evolve as a dancer. You learn new techniques. You challenge yourself. You challenge your body, and you're constantly on a journey of improving and becoming a better dancer. I just also think that that also applies internally when we think about our minds and our hearts and our spirits. I love folding that common theme into the show because I think it's really important. Yeah, so I really like how you tied it back to dance. That was one of the big reasons I wanted to bring you on is because especially in the dance world, I think that speaking from experience, as you grow up, I grew up as a dancer. I've been dancing my whole life, essentially. That's the thing about dance that when you're a child, it's harder to comprehend, but once you're an adult, you realize there is absolutely no way to achieve perfection, not in dance, not in any art form, really. It's impossible. Unless you put a scoreboard on it, unless you put a score like they do in competitive dance, then whatever, but even then, that is super subjective. Even with a perfect score, there is still room to improve. That's one of my favorite things about art in general, not just dance, is that you will never be able to achieve perfection. That perfection, I say in air quotes, it looks different for everybody. Yeah, I agree with you 1,000%. I think the journey then becomes not striving for perfection, but just becoming the best version of yourself. That's how I like to put it because it takes the better off of perfection and perfectionism. The best version of me right now is absolutely not perfect, but in a lot of ways, it's better, and I'm better than I was before. I also like to think broadly about art. Art can be so many things, and of course, it is subjective in and of itself. I think dance is a form of art. Poetry is a form of art. Writing is a form of art. I even think podcasting is an art form, to be honest. You can tell me otherwise. I think it is. I think so too. I love to go on the journey of learning more and improving even my own show. Sometimes, I end up on Reddit learning things and reading things about what other folks are experiencing. It's so funny to me that recently, I've come across two threads on Reddit where some folks were kind of frustrated with the fact that they have been pouring a lot of time and energy into making videos. Those videos are not making much traction, but a couple of different people have had very silly videos that they've made with minimal effort. Some of them, even as far back as a year ago, that are all of a sudden trending and getting a lot of views and getting more attention. On the one hand, they think it's cool, but on the other hand, they're kind of frustrated that the things that they've poured into and tried to perfect are not getting the same attention as the things that they've put so little effort into. I think that is a huge testament to the fact that striving for perfection will ultimately lead you to disappointment. No one is ever perfect in anything. The best we can do is give ourselves a little bit of grace, try to do the best that we can, and move forward. Perfection is not something that is attainable for us, but striving to be our best and do what we can is. I think that's the great journey. Yeah, for sure. It's awesome that you brought that up, because now I'm just thinking about previous experiences where I've had professors, for example, expect perfection or else you're not working hard enough, stuff like that. Obviously, when a professor strives for perfection all the time every day, they're asking for something that's completely unrealistic, because what we're talking about, perfection is impossible. I like to say that specifically in the dance world, people who are considered in quotes perfect are usually pretty alienated from other dancers. I know this because it's happened to someone I know, and it's not great. It's not good. The person who is perceived as perfect got alienated from the majority of everybody else, and that just automatically takes away the concept of, oh, they're perfect. This is all amazing stuff. I think that in the dance world, we also have to really collectively evaluate perfection. Like you said, take away from the perfection and really think about it from a self-improvement perspective. It's great that we're talking about this now. Yeah, I think so too. I think there's also an important distinction between striving from perfectionism and perfection and actually challenging ourselves to do better, because it's not always easy to do better. I remember I had a professor in undergrad, and I thought the effort I was putting in was good enough. It's a very old phrase, the bee's knees. I thought I was doing a good job, everything. I had that professor come back to me and say, you're better than this. I'm actually a little bit disappointed. That struck a nerve in a way that I really wanted to prove them wrong. After that, the next paper I did in that class was probably the best I ever did in that class, and I got an even better grade. I think it, on the one hand, activated my competitiveness, which I know dancers might be familiar with. Oh, very familiar. We know that very well. Yes, but on the other hand, it challenged me to go a little bit beyond what I thought I could do. It challenged me to improve upon the work that I had already thought was good enough, because ultimately I could do better. I think it's also important to set that distinction between striving for perfection and actually recognizing when maybe a challenge is coming up for us, and we do have the capacity to do a bit better than we might have done before. Especially for dances, it's a great mindset to have, and it makes me want to rethink. How, speaking from someone who is currently long-term subbing right now for a bunch of children, what can be done to take away the competitiveness from each other and really turn it towards self-reflection? I think that's extremely important, especially for children to grow up understanding that mindset of self-improvement instead of achieving perfection or competing with each other too much in a negative way. I think on the one hand, there's certainly healthy competition, but ultimately, and it's going to sound really cliché, but many of us have heard it before that our only competition should really be us. I understand that doesn't apply, and that's maybe not realistic in an actual dance competition or something like that, but I think in the grand scheme of our lives when it comes to self-improving and growing and evolving, our only competition in that regard is us. We should be competing against the virgins of ourselves that we want to evolve from and improve from. I think you make a great point around that. Thanks. Don't even get me started on competition dance. I'm a proud hater of competition dance, so we're not going to go down that rabbit hole right now. I'm still that phrase. I'm a proud hater of something. I'm going to find my thing and be like, I'm a proud hater. I just love that phrase, but I totally hear you on that. Now I'm going to trademark it. I'm a proud hater. That is so funny. I'm trying to think if there's anything else that we haven't covered on. One more question. Have you ever had a question that's actively being put together in your head, but it's not together enough for it to come out? Oh yeah, all the time. As a podcast host, yes. All the time. You understand what it's like to just have any questions. You understand the questions in your head, and it's not quite out. I'm going to ask this question, and you are under no obligation to answer it if you don't want to. I'm curious to know how you got to this point of being able to understand the concept of self-improvement. Oh yeah, that's a great question. I have early memories of just wanting to be a better version of the person I was before. I've had things happen in school when I was younger, maybe how I was treated, maybe how I treated someone else, or just not being able to manage my feelings and things the best at home. From an early age, wanting to make amends with people, or wanting to asserting myself and wanting apology for things, or seeking additional support for certain things that I was struggling with. I feel like from a young age, that's just been my state as a quality that I probably was born with that has just evolved over time as I've gotten older. I have also spent many years on and off in therapy for a number of things, light things as silly as, not silly, but as minor in the grand scheme of things as breakups to bigger things like healing some relationships with parents or things like that. I've always been striving to just be a better version of myself. I can also be critical of myself too, maybe if I'm showing up in certain spaces a certain way. I had an experience recently where as much as I put myself out there to go to a conference and connect with people and network, and I did, I was still critical of myself afterward because I was like, oh, you could have done more, you could have met more people, just that constant critic in the back of my head. I have always been just dispositioned toward trying to be better and striving to be better. I like sharing that journey vulnerably for myself on my own show, but I also like learning from people who are walking similar walks where they are also trying to be the best version of themselves or maybe they're learning life lessons that I haven't experienced or I haven't gone through yet, but because of their experience and their wisdom, they're able to plant seeds. In me, that if I do come across those challenges or things, I'll have some known, some ingrained wisdom to help support me through it. So I like to be wise. I like to be in tune with myself. I like to assess situations and come out with some sense of understanding of things, and I think that has always helped me and made me want to be on this journey of just improving myself. I'm not where I want to be yet in a lot of ways, but there are moments now in my present life where I can be very grateful for the things I put in place months ago or years ago that's even gotten me here now, and I know that if I can continue on this journey and this path of being honest with myself, striving to just grow and improve as a person, I know that I will eventually get to the place that I want to be. Not a perfect place, but a place that I would like to be, and I think that's just a large driving factor for me, and something that I kind of, I don't want to use the word require, but that's the one that's coming to my mind, unfortunately, so I will say require. I've just kind of required it of myself to just not stay stuck and to constantly be learning and growing and using my experiences to not just help me to move through things, but maybe in being vulnerable, maybe in sharing with others, inspire them to be on their own journey as well and learn something as well. So I feel like that was very wordy and roundabout, but that's the way to explain it. We got it. Would you say that you're a proud hater of perfectionism? Yes. That's yours. I will say that one of my dear friends and my mentor, her name is Ashante Renee, and she leads an organization called the Axon Group, and one of her campaigns is recovering, like the recovering perfectionist. She's doing a whole thing around that because she has been someone who, like many of us, has struggled with perfectionism. So I consider myself one of the people she's talking about when she talks about recovering perfectionist, but I'm also a proud hater of perfectionism. I mean, the biggest haters of anything is the people who have to deal with it. Yeah, like I'm the biggest hater of like, anyways, some things I have and I hate them the most. Yeah, I'm glad we're on the same page with that. Okay. Yeah. So unfortunately, we are reaching the end of the show, sadly. Luckily, though, if you want to hear more of us talking, yeah, go on the prolific hub. We're collabing. Yes, I am so excited about this. So I will have Raven on to talk more about dance and why dance is important, and some of the, you know, just like, mental, emotional, physical benefits of dancing, and also how we can sort of pull like from the lessons and practices of dance to support people who might be creative entrepreneurs, because there is some overlap. I'm sure there are many creative entrepreneurs, and maybe if people are creative entrepreneurs, but they're not dancers, I'm sure there's absolutely things that they can learn from dancers. So I'm really excited for our collab, and definitely stay tuned for that episode. I'm so excited to have you on. Me too. This will be fun. This will be fun, for sure. Before we go, though, I'm going to put all of your like, social media down in like the description of the podcast of this episode, so people can find you. But would you like to tell everyone where to find you? Yeah, that's so great. Thank you so much. So for any consulting work, if you're someone who is looking to grow your communication strategy and your digital footprint, you can head to aliashyann.com, A-L-I-Y-A-C-H-E-Y-A-N-N-E.com, and I can support you there. If you're interested in the podcast, you can look up the Prolific Hub podcast on any of your favorite podcast platforms, ideally where you're listening to this show on right now. And you can tune into that show there. Yeah. Awesome. So thank you for coming on. This was a lot of fun. I can't wait to jump onto your show and infiltrate it. Over there. Yeah. So yeah, so for all of you in the audience who loved this interaction and want to hear more from us, A-L-I-A will be posting the episode with me on the Prolific Hub podcast. And we're still figuring out days, but they'll probably be up at around the same time. Yeah. So already, it's been amazing having you. Yeah, this is so great. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you for your great questions. Thank you for just vibing and laughing and talking through all the things. This was really great. I really enjoyed this. So thank you. I'm glad. All righty. Audience, goodbye. I will see you on the next or not. I'm not going to see you, but you're going to hear me on the next one because it's an audio podcast anyways. Bye.