Coping with Rejection and the Word No in Sales

In this episode of the Luxury of Choice podcast, host Steve Vaughan, fellow sales trainer Jane Green and new colleague Debbie Airey discuss the challenges of facing rejection in sales, particularly the word 'no.' They explore the emotional impact of rejection, the different types of 'no' responses, and the importance of asking open questions to understand customer needs better. The conversation also delves into the sales process, the significance of effective prospecting, and strategies for resilience in the face of rejection. The episode concludes with practical tips for handling objections and maintaining a positive attitude after receiving a 'no.'

Takwaways:

• Rejection is a common part of the sales process.
• Understanding the emotional impact of 'no' is crucial for salespeople.
• There are different types of 'no' responses that can guide future actions.
• Asking open questions can uncover customer needs and objections.
• Effective prospecting requires a strategic approach and resilience.
• Sales is often a numbers game; persistence is key.
• Maintaining a positive attitude after rejection is essential.
• Building relationships with customers can reduce the frequency of 'no.'
• Sales training should include role-playing to prepare for objections.
• Understanding how customers prefer to communicate can improve engagement.

All views are the opinions of the individual trainers.

Music by artist.io

Steve Vaughan, Jonathan Cooper, Pru Layton, Christian Walter, Pascal le Floche, Jayne Green and Jonathan Slasinski are Sales Trainers from george james ltd. You can email the show at: Podcast@georgejames-training.com

The trainers on LinkedIn:

Steve Vaughan https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-vaughan-salestrainer/
Jonathan Cooper https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-cooper-18716b1/
Pru Layton https://www.linkedin.com/in/pru-layton-b46a3528/
Christian Walter https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-walter-a1857b1/
Jayne Green https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayne-green-salestrainer/
Pascal Le Floch-Riche https://www.linkedin.com/in/pascal-le-floch-220ba46/

Jonathan Slasinski https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-slasinski-449a655/

george james training website https://georgejames-training.com/

Transcript

Steve Vaughan (00:01)
Hello again and welcome to the Luxury of Choice, a B2B Sales and Business podcast brought to you by the training team of George James Limited. My name is Steve Vaughan. I'm a Senior Sales Trainer for George James and I'm also the host and producer of this podcast. This is another one of our shows where we're looking at particular aspects of the sales process, looking at the kind of things that salespeople face when working through the sales process. And today we're going to look at that word, no. How do we respond? How do we react? How do we cope with rejection?

and how do we move forward with it? And today I've got two colleagues with me from the training team at Jewish James, Jane Green, who's been on the podcast before, but also a new member of the team. So welcome to Debbie Airey Debbie, how are you?

Debbie Airey (00:44)
I'm fine thank you very much Steve thank you for that introduction.

Steve Vaughan (00:48)
So, Jane, how are you?

Jayne Green (00:50)
Yeah, great. I had a lovely weekend. Thank you very much. So ready to go for another week.

Steve Vaughan (00:54)
Good. Great. What do you get up to at the weekend?

Jayne Green (00:58)
Wow, so we just had a load of housework done. So actually that included an awful lot of de-junking the place and dust everywhere. but actually, yeah, new windows, they look fab. House still looks a tip, but yes, there we go. There you go.

Steve Vaughan (01:09)
Yeah. Good. Good. It'll get there, I'm sure. Yeah. And Debbie, you've been on the podcast before, but you were previously on as a customer because you were one of my customers. you've sort of, what was the phrase? You were so impressed you bought the company. What they used to say about shavers. No, seriously, welcome to the team. It's great to have you here. What were you up to at the weekend?

Debbie Airey (01:28)
Yes.

Thank you. It was Parkrun's 20th anniversary of the weekend, so of course I was at the local Parkrun this weekend and then I volunteered at the junior Parkrun on the Sunday morning as well as their warm-up lead, so no one escapes in a warm-up lead, even the parents have to join in when I'm doing that, so yeah, all good fun. So that's what I was doing the weekend. Thank you. What about yourself?

Steve Vaughan (01:46)
Wow.

Yeah.

fantastic. We should, well we should tell the listener that you're, you do a lot of running and you're very athletic unlike me. I was on, well I was kind of rehearsing. So I'm in a show at my right pole age. So I'm involved with Banbury Operatic. So, and I get involved, well they let me in because one I'm male and B I've got a pulse because they're really short of men. So we're rehearsing a show called Kings and Queens, which is just different songs from different shows. So we've got things like

The King and I, We Will Rock You, Spamalot, you know all kinds of different shows and I'm doing lots of little bits and I can sing actually and I can act but I definitely can't dance so as Meatloaf said I guess two out of three ain't bad but it's a lot of fun but I kind of also be glad when it's over because it's two nights a week at the moment for rehearsals. Anyway let's get on with the topic of what we said we'd talk about today and that's Facing No and I think it's inevitable in sales

that you will get the word no. You probably get the word no more often than when you get the word yes, let's be honest really, otherwise we wouldn't need salespeople really. So I'm going to start with you, Jane. So what are your thoughts about getting that initial reaction from the customer and how do you cope when the customer says, no, not for me? What are your thoughts on that?

Jayne Green (03:15)
think initially, so I go back a lot of years, a no from a customer was devastating, because I didn't quite know how to handle it. And so it was a very personal sense of, I guess, rejection or rejection is a big word, but of course we all take that on, don't we? And I just remember being absolutely floored by it and thinking, my goodness, and I took it as absolutely everything.

Steve Vaughan (03:23)
Mm.

Jayne Green (03:41)
course what I then learned I remember taking it back in those early early days of selling, taking it back to my boss being mortified and I just remember he asked me some questions what was he saying what was your customer saying no to you know and actually where did that come from you know what was the question that you were actually asking that you got this feeling that there was this sense of he was pushing back on what you wanted so yeah that was just the rejection part of it how I felt to do with that.

Steve Vaughan (03:56)
Great point.

Yeah, I think that's right. And it's when we get the no, isn't it, Debbie, really? We can get a no at any stage in the sales process. But I guess the first thing is, when do we get in the no, really? And what stage in the selling do we actually face that rejection, isn't it?

Debbie Airey (04:26)
Yeah, you're right. I echo Jane as well. It is an emotional reaction when you first start and it always is an emotional reaction as well because at end of the we're only human and we do put, most of us people put all of their energy into that particular sales process. So to receive a no can be devastating. It's exactly the word. And mortifying, I love that word that you use because when you're really passionate about something and it means so much to you, it is embarrassing if you don't.

Steve Vaughan (04:56)
Hmm.

Debbie Airey (04:57)
Don't get it quite over the line.

Steve Vaughan (05:01)
And I think it shows that we care really. We always say in sales training, it's not personal, it's business, but let's be honest, it is personal really. You're a strange person if you don't feel some kind of pushback. And it shows that you care and it shows that you're invested. But let's roll back to some basic principles on this really. So I guess to start with, Jenny, depends the answer no.

Debbie Airey (05:05)
Yeah.

Jayne Green (05:10)
It is,

Steve Vaughan (05:25)
how we face that word. It does depend on the question that we've asked the customer, guess, really, does it not?

Jayne Green (05:30)
Yeah, it does. know, because actually to know can have lots of sort of outcomes from it. But essentially we need to find out, don't we? Is it, is it no, not now? You know, is it, is it no, I'm actually busy? Or is it this, the one we don't really want? Is it no, no, never? You know, and how do we identify what that is? Of course, no is a great response because it gives us something to work.

Steve Vaughan (05:47)
Mm.

Jayne Green (05:58)
When we hear nothing from a customer then it's really difficult. But NO gives us a bit of opportunity to ask some more questions and find out about what that actually means. Particularly if it's NO NOT NOW then we've got a great way of discovering when would that be a good time? When would that be plausible for you?

Steve Vaughan (06:19)
So there's two forms of no then, Debbie, really. There's no not now and no not ever. And I guess we can work with both, really, can't we?

Debbie Airey (06:25)
Both are a learning curve as well and a good opportunity for as a person to go, OK, I'm going to take some learnings from that. And Jane, you mentioned before, before we come on the call about the questioning process, before that no happens, I think every opportunity is a good opportunity for a salesperson to learn when they hear that feedback from a customer or a client.

Steve Vaughan (06:32)
Hmm.

And if it is a no, not now, then at least we do know. If it's no, not now, then yes, we can say, when? Can we reschedule something else? Or when would it be a good time to the conversation or whatever? But if it's a no, not ever, we can also work with that as well, because at least we know. At least we can say, all right, I'm probably never going to do any business for this particular customer and this particular account. I can at least put that into my business plan. can say, well, that one's...

for now off limits, what else have I got to work on? What can I progress? Where can I move? At least we know and we can move forward. And I guess also, as I think you said earlier, Jane, when we talking before we started recording, I guess it does depend where in the sales process we get that no as well in terms of how we move forward from it really. Is there something to think about there?

Jayne Green (07:27)
Yeah.

gaps.

Yeah, absolutely. If we're in the early stage of a process, it depends who we're talking to, of course, when we get that no. If it's very early on, we might be talking to an end user that's really excited about a piece of equipment that we've got. Actually, they may not have some of the decision-making power to be able to go with that. So, of course, people are busy and some people just want to push us away quite early, but they might be obviously intrigued.

Steve Vaughan (07:51)
That's a great point.

Jayne Green (08:12)
But of course, if it's further down the line in terms of the sale, we've been working for weeks or months, and dare I say it, sometimes years, because some of the bigger deals that we have worked with, I'm sure all of us have taken a long time to land. Of course, if it's further down that process, that's tougher to hear. So what are we doing? What questions are we actually asking to identify where we're at in that process?

Steve Vaughan (08:22)
Absolutely.

Jayne Green (08:40)
gone down a bit of a journey of understanding what commitments we've got already to suddenly receive a no now. Where are we actually at with that? The further down the process, obviously the tougher that seems, but of course that's, you know, that's other questions that we can use to answer. And I do wonder if sometimes we ask, I can be guilty of it, asking some very closed questions rather than being more exploratory with open questions to identify a lot more about what the customer really needs.

Steve Vaughan (09:10)
And just to recap on that Jane, in terms of what a closed question is versus an open question. Just clarify if anybody doesn't know that, listening to the show.

Jayne Green (09:15)
Yeah, yeah, so all of the lovely, you know, what, where, when, how, you know, why questions, you know, are really good. they promote, promote more of a, opportunity for the customer to tell us a little bit more about what they're doing. Tell me more about, you know, what's the prices? What is it that you're looking for? What do you like about, you know, this piece of equipment? What does this solve? All of a sudden our customers start thinking about.

some of the key points that could be valuable to them. But of course, if we're saying to somebody, you interested in this? They're probably going to go yes or no, you know, and if they're busy, they might actually just go, which I don't know. But we haven't really teased out and found out what they might be really interested about.

Steve Vaughan (09:53)
Close question, isn't it? Yeah.

We've closed the conversation down straight away, haven't we really? So Debbie, just thinking in terms of the sales process again, because we all have a sales process here at George James, we? It's in our DNA, it's embedded in everything we do in our training process. So I guess the further down the sales process we are, should we be getting less nos? Or is that perhaps just being a little bit wishful thinking on my part? thoughts on that one?

Jayne Green (10:05)
Yes, yeah.

Debbie Airey (10:14)
Mm-hmm.

I think if the...

If we can draw that back even further and go to the original qualification process at the start, because we'd all like yes, no, less nos, not yes nos, less nos. Really in the objection handling part that I find is missed is our fear of objection handling at the very beginning. And it's important to flush out any objections the customer's got at that stage and not just the customer you're talking to, but the spectrum of key

Steve Vaughan (10:35)
Hmm. Yeah.

Mm.

Debbie Airey (11:02)
key people that you should be talking to in that particular customer as well. So it's valuable to do the due diligence on the account or the customer to find out any possible objections that they might be facing. that you're bringing them out at the very very beginning, potentially before they've even asked them, it's important to address them and don't be afraid of it because that actually shows that you do care about the relationship that you're actually

building the foundations off with this customer because essentially that's what you are doing you're building the foundations of a relationship when you get this correct I believe historically that if that is done well you should get less knows the further down the process you get however you can't always no one's well maybe some of us are psychic I'm not sure but no one's fortune tellers if yeah it'd be wonderful was it that's that's my Friday job

Steve Vaughan (11:49)
I

Jayne Green (11:50)
Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (11:56)
It'd be great to go to Africa as a salesperson, wouldn't it? Mystic Debs.

Jayne Green (11:59)
I wish.

Debbie Airey (12:01)
so when I'm doing the lottery numbers I miss tic tacs or yeah

Jayne Green (12:07)
You

Debbie Airey (12:10)
Funnily enough, no one's asked me any advice on that. but I think, I think, you know, I think the things you can't see the future of are, you know, industry issues, COVID, for example, stuff, you know, things like that, that are absolutely going to, you know, take, take the bottom out of it really, but you should effectively receive less no's if you've done the found, if you've built the foundations correctly.

Steve Vaughan (12:13)
Ha

Jayne Green (12:13)
You

Steve Vaughan (12:24)
Of course,

Yeah. And we've qualified well. So I guess, Jane, if we've got all the way down the sales process to a stage where we think the customer's ready to buy from us and we say, would you like to buy it from me? And if the customer just says no, what does that say to us in terms of what we've done in terms of sales process, do you think?

Debbie Airey (12:38)
in my experience. Yeah.

Jayne Green (13:01)
think we've missed something really big. If we've got right down to the very end, you know, and we've got to know, we've not done a thorough qualification, you know, or something drastic has happened, like Deb's mentioned, you know, some major incidents have happened, something big in that company that we are, you know, building relationship with, something big's happened, but I think we've missed something out. We've missed something crucial.

Steve Vaughan (13:03)
Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, could be.

Yeah, or soon as it's come left field, as you say. Yeah, so know that that neither of us can anticipate, yeah.

Jayne Green (13:31)
Yes, yeah, and maybe we're just asking the wrong person, you know, that actually can make the decision. You know, are we asking the end user who's been super excited, the scientist that's been working with it, but actually we need to get that, you know, are you ready to place the order with me? They might go, well, no, because I can't actually sign any orders off, you know, but we might hear no and we don't explore it anymore. If I hear a no, I like to say, tell me a little bit more about that.

Steve Vaughan (13:37)
That's a super point. That's a super point.

Hmm. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Jayne Green (14:02)
you know, and let's open that back up again, try and pull it back and explore again.

Debbie Airey (14:02)
Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (14:07)
And I think to go back to what you were saying, Deb, is that there's a likelihood, there's an objection or a concern that we haven't uncovered. You know, if the customer says, no, I'm still concerned about something, there's something in the back of the customer's mind that we've either missed or in our excitement and eagerness, we've gone steamroller through. And we think the customer's right, they're ready to place the order. actually still evaluating opportunities and scenarios. Yeah, good point. Yeah.

Debbie Airey (14:08)
I agree.

Hmm.

I agree, Steve. think sometimes often, especially, and actually I think we're all guilty of it as well. No matter how long you've been doing this for, we get what I like to call sales fever and it just gets a little bit excited. We're about to do something and then it doesn't quite happen. And I think there's two other important areas that I feel quite passionate about and that is understanding what the original customer's need was.

Steve Vaughan (14:48)
sales fever. Love it.

Debbie Airey (15:04)
going back from my sector with safety and industry, a lot of it comes from an incident that might have happened, for example, that calls aren't a safety requirement.

sometimes that's not going to be the longevity of that conversation that you need to have, you need to explore a lot more with that. But then also going into the sales process itself, are we obtaining agreement and confirmation from the key stakeholders along that journey as well, just to make sure we're not missing that huge issue that we might have missed. So it's always nice to have those conversations with the customer, because we shouldn't be leaving them on their own anyway during that process, but use that time.

to be checking in with them, just to check our understanding of what... are we doing the right thing? Are we on the right track basically?

Steve Vaughan (15:55)
Absolutely. as Proust said in a previous podcast, know, have we got our happy years on, you know, are we hearing what we want to hear rather than actually what the customer is really saying to us? I want to go back and write up the sales process. So we've been right at the sharp end, you know, closing the sale, but let's go right back up to the very start again. Prospecting my favorite topic in sales, as you know, it's something very close to my heart, really. What are our thoughts about getting nos in terms of prospecting activity, Jane, and how we should

Debbie Airey (16:00)
Ha.

Jayne Green (16:04)
yeah.

Debbie Airey (16:04)
Yeah.

Yep.

Steve Vaughan (16:23)
you know, how we should view that in terms of keeping going with our prospecting.

Jayne Green (16:29)
I mean that's a great question because prospecting takes quite a lot of time. We have to be prepared to put some significant time in our calendar to put aside time for that and of course I'd go even one step before the actual part of prospecting but part of it is preparing. Who are we actually wanting to, who do we believe would our ideal customer would be?

Steve Vaughan (16:37)
Hmm.

Yeah, completely.

Jayne Green (16:57)
who are we actually reaching out to? So if we start to, and we've done our research and we start to reach out, then we have got a greater opportunity of getting somebody that might actually want to talk to us. But if I was contacting a whole load of customers and I get a couple of yeses on a day after a whole day of prospecting, I'm often quite delighted because it can take a lot of times, you do get a lot of nos.

people often don't have the time and it may not be that actually our products aren't the right fit for them, but it may just be that the timelines that they're looking at, know, with projects that they've got on, again, you don't necessarily hear that not now very often, but you have to tease that out. Let's find out. So I can think of customers even now that I know really want some training.

Steve Vaughan (17:26)
Yeah, you do.

Yeah, you do,

Jayne Green (17:53)
but I know that their agendas are so busy to actually try and fit that in. So just making sure that we're keeping at the right time, you know, but we expect a lot of no's. We expect a lot of no's often when we're prospecting, but let's make that easier by at least making sure we're going to some people that we think, okay, these will be my ideal customer. And if we're not so sure, practice on some of the people that aren't our ideals while we get our...

Steve Vaughan (17:59)
Yeah, no, completely.

That's a great idea. Yeah.

Jayne Green (18:21)
was sounding right where we get our questions right. And you know, for me, emails tend to get a lot of non-response and that can be kind of like, wow, I've sent a million emails out, I've heard nothing back. But actually, picking up the phone, getting an opportunity to speak to somebody gives you more inroads, but that's my personal preference.

Steve Vaughan (18:29)
Yeah.

No, me too. These supercomputers that we walk around in our pockets or our purses that can control our life and take photos of everything. They should actually still make phone calls, don't they? I think sometimes we forget that. So it's bouncing back from rejection, resilience, thick skin, all that kind of stuff. Deb, is that what we're saying here? When we're prospecting?

Jayne Green (18:53)
And they do, surprisingly.

Debbie Airey (19:04)
It is, well, mean prospecting is a...

is something that is close to my heart actually because it goes into the strategy of the business as well and it's fundamental actually. I think sometimes we think it is just a numbers game essentially but actually it's not. There's a lot more science to it than that in my experience, very much so and I think if the strategy is correct then the prospecting will be a lot more fruitful because from my experience,

Steve Vaughan (19:14)
completely.

Yeah, completely.

Jayne Green (19:26)
Hmm.

Yes.

Debbie Airey (19:39)
The strategy has got to look at the appropriate verticals that that business is going after. The industries, the current trends are those people that are actually going to be interested right now. As you said, time, right place. Is it the right customers that the business is going for at that moment in time? Have the people got time to do the prospecting? What language should be reviewed in the strategy? And also the personas that we're going after.

if we're going to do some proper, yeah, that's it. The personas are so important because that helps us understand how we're going to communicate and on which platforms we're going to use. So you touched on there with the phone versus the email, but there's also things like LinkedIn, there's various different social media platforms, attending exhibitions, do walk around, actually standing up and doing a seminar yourself. There's so many different platforms available for a salesperson to showcase as a person of knowledge.

Steve Vaughan (20:09)
Good point.

Jayne Green (20:16)
to.

Debbie Airey (20:39)
rather than just sort of doing the numbers game. And I think it's really important that in this day and age we review all of those different aspects when we're prospecting because our customers hear in different ways and our customers learn in different ways. I I'm a little bit old fashioned. I like pictures rather than words. Yeah, give me a picture any day rather.

Steve Vaughan (20:56)
Yeah.

Yeah, me too. Yeah. Yeah. Because I can't read my own writing. That's why

Jayne Green (21:00)
Yeah, yeah.

Debbie Airey (21:05)
It's not exactly the same as me. I mean I'm looking at my notes here and I'm like I should have been a doctor so it's a mess but I think I think it's really important to understand how the customers learn and listen and you know I draw back to an engineer I worked with at my Linda gas days and I met him and he was the most amazing mechanical engineer and he said how do you learn and I said what you want about and he went It's my standard response

Jayne Green (21:07)
Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (21:10)
you

Debbie Airey (21:34)
about and he said no how do you learn are you written pictorial or do your hands on and I said I'm definitely pictorial definitely hands on I've got to break something to fix it but it was a really interesting question and I think sometimes you know we think about that when we're talking to our customers how do they want to hear from us how are we going to make that process simple for them yeah

Steve Vaughan (21:46)
Yeah, me too.

think that's a super point, yeah. Because we tend to default to what is simplest for us, which is usually banging off an email, really, isn't it? Let's be honest. And then we don't get a response, so we just assume it's no. But it might not be a no, it might be you haven't communicated in a way it's better for me. And let's be honest, most of our customers aren't sitting there waiting for an email to come in and think, good, an email. They're probably syncing in emails like the rest of us, really. So we do default to what's often the easiest way for us.

Debbie Airey (22:03)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Jayne Green (22:12)
3

Debbie Airey (22:13)
Yeah.

You

Jayne Green (22:21)
Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (22:26)
I just want to come back to this numbers game thing though, because I you know, I think the more analytical we can be in terms of who we target in prospecting, I think the less notes we would get. And I love the point you made, Jane, about the ideal customer, recognizing that, you know, what is the ideal customer? They don't exist, but you know, what is the nearest thing to an ideal customer? But I still think there is some degree where it is a numbers game and whatever the numbers are.

And my favorite example of this really was way back now, going back to 2001 when my wife and I were living in the States at the time. And we were living in New York, this was just before 9-11. And I went on tour to these sort of one day sales conference things. And it was very, you know, very glitzy and the guide speaking, we've got a lot of charisma and personality and all these kinds of things, you know. And he started telling about his personal sales journey and his first sales job.

was selling door-to-door insurance in New York in the late 70s. And it was a pretty violent place from memory, watching the news at the time. And he'd bang on the door and somebody would put a gun on him or give him some choice words or whatever. Imagine trying to do that for a living, really. But his boss at the start of week would give him a card and on the card there was a word no written 100 times. And he was told, every time somebody tells you to...

Jayne Green (23:37)
Wow.

Steve Vaughan (23:50)
off or to go away or you know literally slams a door in his face cross and no off and if you come back to me at the end of the week with a hundred no's I'll give you a thousand dollars for the hundred no's and I often use this example when I'm talking about prospecting in sales training because what his boss knew was that of course out of those hundred no's he'd get at least two or three yes's now you know please dear listener we're not trying to make into insurance sales people but I use that example just as a

Jayne Green (23:51)
haha

Steve Vaughan (24:17)
as an indication that it is a numbers game. Hopefully it's not one in a hundred for you guys, but there is some degree of recognizing that there is a need to be resilient. You will have a day or a morning when we're prospecting where you just get no, no, no, no, no. And you think I'm ever going to make a successful call, but just recognizing you want call closer to the customer that says, yes, come and see me. So a favorite story in mind anyway, I thought and I just share that. So.

Jayne Green (24:42)
Yeah, and do think many people are about to give a thousand dollars out to the people that get 100 no's? For our listeners. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (24:48)
Exactly. And that was a lot of money then as well. It's a of money now, but in the late seventies, a super lot of money really. So, but please sales managers for listening, don't give yourselves people cards with a hundred no's on please. I'm not suggesting that we do that really. So, facing rejection, facing the word no, it's not personal. It's part of business, recognising we move forward. Just going back to what we spoke about on the previous podcast about ghosting. And I want to come back to this no.

Debbie Airey (24:51)
Mmm.

Jayne Green (24:53)
Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (25:17)
not now as opposed to no not ever Jane and what are things we need to think about if the customer says no not now what do we need to think about in terms of moving forward do think?

Jayne Green (25:30)
Well, clearly there's some discussion to have to say, if not now, when? But we then need to display, why is now not the right time for them? Could that be money? Could that be, you know, it might not even be money related. I think we often think it is. Sometimes we think that every now might be about a price and of course it might not be. But is that the practicalities of something?

Steve Vaughan (25:49)
No, completely.

Jayne Green (25:56)
you know, happening, there may be an awful lot of other investment that needs to happen, you know, within some of the areas that we're selling into. So there is a priority list in terms of an order of what comes in. But then exploring, if not now, when would be a good time to take this up again? What else can we to look at to help you, you know, with that, when that time becomes available? And again, making sure that we've got all of the potential people that would want to be involved.

or that we would need and the customer would need to be involved in a process to take that forwards.

Steve Vaughan (26:33)
Yeah, super point. I think also, Debbie, I think it's a great opportunity to say to the customer, okay, when is it coming? Get some in that diary is now, you know, can we get an appointment set up? And I guess if you get pushed back on that, that's telling you something else, perhaps, Debbie. Yeah.

Jayne Green (26:42)
Yep.

Debbie Airey (26:48)
Definitely, because also it relates to the value of what you're discussing to the customer, ignoring the value of it to us as a business, but if they've already established that what you're discussing with them is of high value, high stakes to them, whether it be value, financial risk, anything like that, why would not now be the right answer? There must be something quite fundamental behind it.

Steve Vaughan (26:53)
Mm. Yeah.

Debbie Airey (27:17)
it's worth potentially exploring that with them just to remind them but obviously not pushing them over the edge but I think you know it's understanding what was the original value of it to them as well.

Jayne Green (27:29)
Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (27:29)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Why do we have the conversation in the first place really? what's changed?

Jayne Green (27:34)
Yeah.

Debbie Airey (27:34)
Yeah, because that could shorten that. and during that call if we can then re-establish the value of it to them and you are putting another date in the diary it should shorten that gap a little just by putting a bit of a flag on it.

Jayne Green (27:46)
Absolutely. Yeah, and I think that dating the diary is key, isn't it? You know, that's the bit that I think we can walk away from at times and agree that we'll speak later, but we haven't actually, you know, put something in and secured some sort of timeline to be able to know what that next action point is, that we've got a commitment to actually speak at a specific time.

Steve Vaughan (27:48)
Yeah, yeah, completely.

Hmm.

And I think it's also, it's a classic way that people use to get rid of salespeople really. no, I'm not in the market right now. Or I've got no money right now. And I think just to not sort of completely give up at the first pushback, if we are just have the confidence to say, okay, so understand that, when would be a good time to get together then? And can we get something agreed in our schedules right now? And I think that would just be a good response rather than just giving up at the first get go when we do get that rejection. So I think customers have learned.

Jayne Green (28:25)
Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (28:40)
most salespeople give up at that stage really. And the ones who succeed in this business are the ones that know the difference between being persistent but not being a nuisance. Yeah, and I can't tell you, if you listen to us on the podcast, I can't tell you what the difference is for you. Everybody's different, but it's knowing that just giving up at the first pushback, we probably need to be a little bit more persistent than that really. But not so much that we're, you know,

becoming a complete nuisance and a pest to the customer. There's a balance there clearly. But I think common sense applies there on that one really.

Debbie Airey (29:16)
Definitely Steve. I mean no one wants to have restraining orders on them at the end of our working week.

Steve Vaughan (29:20)
Okay, yes, that's probably not a good idea. So, no, probably going to be the end of your sales career if that happens really. So, yeah, there is, you know, no difference between being, you know, being persistent and not being a complete pain in the backside really. Final thoughts from you both, lady. Go on, Jane. Sorry, I interrupted you. that again. Pepper spray.

Debbie Airey (29:28)
I wouldn't recommend it.

Jayne Green (29:33)
Yeah, whoops.

Debbie Airey (29:40)
Yeah.

Jayne Green (29:41)
yeah not being a pest where they they prevent yeah pest spray pest spray for the the sales rep coming in if you see that on the side you know you know you've crossed a line

Steve Vaughan (29:50)
Like the like the old Batman cartoon where you'd have repellent spray, salesperson repellent spray. If only that worked. So back to the topic at hand. So final thoughts on both of you. Any final thoughts from each of you as to a final tip or anything that worked well for you in your ongoing sales career? I was going to say in your sales job, but your salespeople still. But anything that you would

Debbie Airey (29:58)
repellent a revenge that's like the shark repellent Shreya

Jayne Green (29:59)
Yes.

Debbie Airey (30:23)
For me, going back to strategy, as I'm a bit of a strategist and I get so excited about it, I'm probably a bit weird like that, but I get so excited about a good strategy. But also if you're in the team or you're managing the team, it's also about allowing the individuals, as I call it, an area to graze their knees, safe spaces to learn and practice these type of things. Especially if you're prospecting, lots of role plays.

Steve Vaughan (30:48)
Love that.

Debbie Airey (30:53)
the team meetings and allow individuals to talk about problem childs as well instead of going through all of their accounts in their presentations. It's nice, I always used to ask mine to pick up three particular customers to talk about, know, one that's going well, one that's not going so well and one that they actually need help from so that the whole team can then share best practice and then yeah and in that environment it's about talking about the strategy, making sure it's

Steve Vaughan (31:17)
super.

Debbie Airey (31:23)
you know, the customers that we're going after are actually aligning with the business strategy so that the team are part of the overall business strategy. And that makes prospecting a lot, not easier, but more understandable. It gives it value of what we're doing.

Steve Vaughan (31:37)
Hmm. Completely. I love that. Some great points there, Debbie. And final point from you, Jane.

Jayne Green (31:44)
So I'd say two things, make sure you are asking lots of open questions and actively listening, you know, all the time. And you know, when you get a no, I think sometimes, and our attitude, what is our attitude at that moment, particularly in front of the customer if we're face to face, or you're on a Teams or you're on a telephone call, we smile. If it's a no, never, we smile and we say thank you very much.

Steve Vaughan (31:52)
Yeah, great point.

Jayne Green (32:12)
and we walk out with a good attitude and we deal with ourselves in the car, which means dusting ourselves off. But smile and say thank you even after a no.

Steve Vaughan (32:18)
I love that. I love that. Yeah.

Debbie Airey (32:20)
You

Steve Vaughan (32:24)
Brilliant, yeah, that's a great point. You always leave on good terms, you never know. People can move, people change jobs, single senses do change. yeah, leaving in a huff would never be a good move, it? So yeah. Ladies, it's been great chatting with you both. For the listener, if you want to know more about both Jane and Debbie, the best place is to find them on LinkedIn. The LinkedIn addresses will be in the show notes. They're both very active on LinkedIn. Debbie will be putting lots of things on LinkedIn as she's joining us, I know.

Jayne Green (32:28)
Yeah, you never know.

It's true.

Steve Vaughan (32:52)
Jane and I regularly do LinkedIn lives. And we've got a new one coming up, I think on the 25th, is it Jane? The next one, 25th of October. And that's about prospecting. There you go, prospecting for gold, we're gonna call it. So if you wanna find out how to join that LinkedIn live session, which is free, just go to the George James LinkedIn page and the signup details will be there soon. I'll be back in again in a couple of weeks time, looking at another topic more geared towards sales managers, but of course.

Debbie Airey (32:53)
Yes.

Jayne Green (32:58)
It is, yeah, 1 p.m.

Steve Vaughan (33:20)
Feel free to listen whether you're a salesperson, sales manager, sales trainer even. We'd welcome the feedback. If you do enjoy the podcast, then please don't forget to leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. does help us in lots of weird and mysterious ways. I'll be back again in a couple of weeks time. In the meantime, happy selling out there and we'll talk soon.

Debbie Airey (33:40)
Bye.