Lorah's story - breastfeeding after a thyroid cancer diagnosis

This week’s guest is the amazing Lorah, from Leeds. Lorah is a mother of four, who found herself pregnant with her son, Luca, during her treatment for thyroid cancer. She shares her journey of breastfeeding her four children, who all had different challenges, and the emotional rollercoaster tied to her cancer treatment and weaning. She discusses her support systems and the difficult decision to delay treatment so that she could breastfeed Luca. Lorah highlights the emotional and physical struggles, the process of treatment, and the importance of support groups and communities for those going through similar experiences.

My picture book on how breastfeeding journeys end, The Story of Jessie’s Milkies, is available from Amazon here -  The Story of Jessie's Milkies. In the UK, you can also buy it from The Children’s Bookshop in Muswell Hill, London. Other book shops and libraries can source a copy from Ingram Spark publishing.

You can also get 10% off my books on supporting breastfeeding beyond six months and supporting the transition from breastfeeding at the Jessica Kingsley press website, that's uk.jkp.com using the code MMPE10 at checkout.

Follow me on Instagram  @emmapickettibclc or find out more on my website www.emmapickettbreastfeedingsupport.com

Resources mentioned - 

Macmillan Cancer Support https://www.macmillan.org.uk/

Maggie's, Yorkshire https://www.maggies.org/our-centres/maggies-yorkshire/

Mummy's Star https://www.mummysstar.org/

Leeds Bosom Buddies https://northleeds.mumbler.co.uk/leeds-bosom-buddies-support-groups/

This podcast is presented by Emma Pickett IBCLC, and produced by Emily Crosby Media.

Transcript

This transcript is AI generated.

[00:00:00] Emma Pickett: I am Emma Pickett, and I'm a lactation consultant from London. When I first started calling myself makes milk. That was my superpower at the time because I was breastfeeding my own two children, and now I'm helping families on their journey. I want your feeding journey to work for you from the very beginning to the very end, and I'm big on making sure parents get support at the end too.

Join me for conversations on how breastfeeding is amazing and also sometimes really, really hard. We'll look honestly and openly at that process of making milk, and of course, breastfeeding and chest feeding are a lot more than just making milk.

Thank you very much for joining me for today's episode. I'm going to be talking to Lorah from Leeds. And as you have seen from the title of the episode, we're gonna be talking about getting a cancer diagnosis in pregnancy and in motherhood. And if that's something that you are going through right now and you are experiencing, I want you to know that, that Lorah is here to share her story with you, which will hope bring, bring some comfort.

And we're also gonna share some resources with you as well that will give you some extra support. Thank you very much for joining me today, Lorah. Um, it's lovely to talk to you. Tell me about your family. Who have you got in terms of your kids? Who's everybody? 

[00:01:23] Lorah: Firstly, thanks for having me on. So, um, in my, quite a big family I would say, 'cause I have four kids now.

I have Heidi, who is my eldest. She's currently 14. Absolute nightmare being a teenager. But then I've got Sophia, she is 11 again, she's just started high school. Getting to that borderline of starting to find where your feet are. Then I've got a little Madison who's started primary school this year.

Always exciting when they start school. And then I've got Baby Luca. Uh, I would call him my miracle baby 'cause he was very much a surprise. Very much wanted since he was a boy after having three girls and he was just, he came out of nowhere unexpectedly. 

[00:02:11] Emma Pickett: Wow. So you are doing all the parenting stages simultaneously.

I'm kind of impressed whenever I hear anyone who's going through that experience. So three girls and along came Luca. Yep. And before we talk about your diagnosis and your experience with cancer, let's talk about your breastfeeding journeys with Heidi and Sophia and Madison. So. How old were you when you had Heidi?

What were you, what was your sort of family culture around breastfeeding? Did you know you wanted to breastfeed? Where were you before you had Heidi? 

[00:02:39] Lorah: So I was 20 very young. I was 21 when I had Heidi. Um, I was the second child in our family to have a baby. My sister was quite young when she had a baby, so she did not breastfeed and I didn't really know a lot about it.

'cause I didn't really see people do it or hear of it really. I was quite a young mom. I just knew what Google told me really. I didn't really have my baby thinking I am a hundred percent gonna breastfeed. I just sort of was gonna wing it and just see what would happen. And it just happened. I had a very good midwife, um, after I'd had Heidi, who was just like, oh, let's try, let's give it a go.

And I just, she just took to it like a duck to water. She was definitely my easiest baby, even though she was my first no problems. Just, it was amazing. I was surprised at how easy it was. Especially since I've had my babies after and had struggles with other children. How amazing. My first one. 

[00:03:41] Emma Pickett: Okay, good for Heidi.

That's what we need. We need those first babies to be the easy experience and, and nice to hear that the midwife had such a positive, um, influence. So Oh, definitely. Just in that moment, after a positive birth, in that moment, lots of oxytocin flying around and your midwife just said, let's give it a go.

Yeah. They just like, and you were open to that? Oh, 

[00:04:00] Lorah: definitely. Oh, I was very, I was a little bit scared because I was thinking, oh my God, once if I do it wrong or, and I was just really nervous. 'cause you, you read about things saying it's gonna hurt and, but no, it, so, I dunno. I feel like the midwife made me feel really relaxed and really comfortable and she was just like an expert at it and yeah, she just was very helpful.

[00:04:23] Emma Pickett: Yay. Well that's great. And then, and then Heidi knew what she was doing. So no particular problems or issues? Nope. And you didn't know anybody else who was breastfeeding at the same time, so your sister hadn't, it wasn't something that your friends were doing? Nope. My mom didn't. Wow. And how did it feel to be that kind of pioneer in your, in your family and in your, sort of, in your support group?

[00:04:43] Lorah: Oh, I dunno. I kind of felt like a massive sense of achievement that I've done something that they didn't do. So I feel like that's probably why they couldn't give me as much support as they would've wanted to because they can't tell me or help me on something I'd never done or they'd never done. Um, but yeah, I just felt really achieved and really happy with myself 'cause I was quite young as well.

[00:05:06] Emma Pickett: Yeah, absolutely. That is something to be really proud of. Well done. I'm sorry if you, I hope you don't mind me saying well done. Like I'm your mum or something, but that is, that is really special. So, so how did Heidi's breastfeeding Jenny, come to an end before we talk about Sophia? 

[00:05:17] Lorah: Oh, I'd say she self weaned at about.

18 ish months. It just started getting less and less from about 15 months. I was always sort of feed on demand, um, and she just got less and less. She was quite easy to wean from all of them actually. She was just very ready at that time. It's about the time she started nursery, so I dunno if come into it.

'cause she definitely had nothing during the day and it was just sort of the nighttime once she just stopped having 

[00:05:46] Emma Pickett: gradually. And at that point you were, obviously, we talked about you being a pioneer. So not only are you the only person breastfeeding, you're the only person breastfeeding beyond babyhood.

Yes. Was anyone giving you a hard time? Was, were you feeling like kind of a bit isolated or did you manage to kind of connect with people who were also breastfeeding? 

[00:06:03] Lorah: No, like at that time I'd never found anything like breastfeeding support groups or anything. I didn't know any friends that was breastfeeding.

I just tended not to do it out and about 'cause she'd get some judgy eyes when she was. Quite older, like when she was like a big baby. I just tended not to do it 'cause of judginess. But now, like with my fourth baby and even my third, I just did it anywhere. Yeah. I just, I didn't care about the judgments.

[00:06:31] Emma Pickett: Yeah. Well if, when you're a young mom, I think judgments feel different, don't they? Yeah. When you're in your, when you're in your twenties versus when you're in your thirties, I felt very vulnerable. Yeah. I think that's really natural. I think we're just getting used to our bodies and we're just getting used to how we feel about our self-confidence.

I think everyone on would understand where that comes from. Yeah. But honestly, Lorah, I bet there are some people listening to this thinking, wow, that is pretty bloody amazing that you didn't know anyone else at breastfed. You were completely on your own in terms of breastfeeding. You got to the point where she self weaned at 18 months, that is pretty damn amazing.

So, um, if I had a little medal, I would pass it over to you for you to put around your neck. Um, that is such an achievement. So Sophia came along then? Yes. When this three years between them about that. Yeah. And you knew that breastfeeding was gonna be happening again 'cause you'd had such a positive experience.

Oh, definitely. Last time with, with, with Heidi. How did it go with Sophia? Uh, 

[00:07:22] Lorah: a smooth ish. Like she took, she took to it quite well. Um, she was just a, Heidi used to feed for such a long time that when Sophia came along and she didn't feed for very long, I used to think, oh my God, is she not getting enough?

Am I doing it wrong? Somehow? Why is she so different to then find that every baby is different and some babies feed longer, some babies feel shorter. It just felt so different compared to how Heidi was, 'cause I could sit there for like 20, 30 minutes at a time feeding her. Whereas Sophia, she'd be done in five.

She was a fast baby. 

[00:07:58] Emma Pickett: So that makes life a bit easier when you've gotta be running around after Heidi as well, I'd imagine. Yes. Um, and then, and then, I don't mean to kind of rush through you, but you do have four kids. Lorah says we've gotta get, we've gotta get through them. So how did um, Sophia's breastfeeding Jenny end?

[00:08:11] Lorah: Oh, she was the longest. She was nearly three. Um, and I at only up to Wien her 'cause I was getting quite ill as a person 'cause I was still feeding her about 10 times a day when she was nearly three. 'cause she was not eating food, she was just being dead fussy. I was having loads of help and support from the doctors.

They was giving me like loads of vitamins to try and keep me up and try and keep her up 'cause I couldn't stop feeding her. 'cause everyone who said called Turkey, you know, she'll, she'll just eat food. She didn't. She was a very stubborn baby. Found out now, um, later on she's autistic and food thing must have been a massive sensory issue for her and it's hence why she didn't eat any food and hence why I was solely breastfeeding until she was about three.

And I had loads of support from the doctor nineteens team as to figure out why she was still feeding and why she wouldn't eat food. But I had to, I had to cut her off because it was just too much for my body and I obviously needed her to eat food as well. 

[00:09:15] Emma Pickett: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's good that, that you felt, you talked about having support several times from the team that were looking after you.

So that's, that's good that no one was sort of saying, oh no, stop her breastfeeding, you know, when she's 14 months, 15 months. And if you had done that, uh, that could have been pretty serious if she had issues around, around food. How is she today as an 11-year-old? I don't mean to imp pry on her privacy if you don't wanna give us any information, but does she, does she eat okay now?

Are you still worried about her eating? Well, she 

[00:09:40] Lorah: eats 

[00:09:40] Emma Pickett: about 10 

[00:09:40] Lorah: things in total 'cause she's been diagnosed with a acid. So like, she'll only have like 10 safe foods. She's very difficult if we take her out to go and eat somewhere. She has a very strict diet, the same things every day, the same meal at school, stuff like that.

But I guess that's how she's worked. That's how she always has been. That's how Sophia is. 

[00:10:01] Emma Pickett: Yeah. Yeah. And and you, you seem quite like, like you're okay about it. Yeah. You know what she needs, you know how to look after her. A hundred percent. You're, you're organized. You're looking relaxed. It sounds as though you've had a team around you that have helped you kind of work out the best way to help Sophia and Yes.

And that breastfeeding for three years. What a great way to start, start her off. 

[00:10:20] Lorah: That's certainly all she had for three 

[00:10:22] Emma Pickett: years. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's a little while ago now 'cause obviously she's, she's 11, but when you did have to breast end breastfeeding. And she was autistic. It might be interesting for some people to hear how you went about that, because I think when, when children are autistic, it can be a little bit more nerve wracking.

Imagining taking away the breastfeeding and how you're gonna help them sort of emotionally regulate and, and support them with sleep. How did you find that weaning process? Do you remember? Yes. 

[00:10:49] Lorah: It was terrible. It was like, Heidi was so easy. I felt like it was so much, so dramatic and difficult with Sophia, a lot of crying, a lot of like pleading with her and trying to distract her.

I, the thing that made it happen was, um, she fell in love with this teddy bear. She used to call it Ted, and I would give her that instead of breastfeeding and I'd be like, you can hold Ted then. But no booby, no booby. And I had to sort of replace breastfeeding with an object. And that somehow worked. But it was a long road.

It was many, many weeks of crying and pleading 

[00:11:27] Emma Pickett: and trying to distract. Yeah. That's, that's tough. That is hard. Especially when you're feeling a bit run down as well. And you started to feel a bit better and have a bit more energy and were able to support her with her eating. And, and, and then along came Madison.

How, how about Madison's breastfeeding Jenny? How did that go? 

[00:11:45] Lorah: Not so well in the beginning 'cause she had tongue tie. So after having two babies, I thought, oh, I'm gonna be amazing at this. My third's just gonna be the duck to water she's gonna take to amazing. I know exactly what I'm doing. I'm a pro now.

Did not work that well. Um, she got seen by the infant feeding team straight away. The day she were born, they instantly could see she was tongue tied. She couldn't attach at all. I was having to try and syringe milk into her mouth because she just could not latch. And she got it snipped on day three. That made a massive difference and she was able to latch pretty much straight away.

But then it took a little bit of time for her to getting used to it 'cause we'd been syringe and milk into her mouth for three days. 

[00:12:32] Emma Pickett: Yeah. Gosh that is number three for a tongue tie to come out of, out the blue. Must have been a bit of a shock. You have ticked all the boxes so far for different types of breastfeeding experiences.

Is Lorah, that's pretty, pretty good range you've got going there. So, so she was able to latch and that's a bit of an advert for having the tongue type procedure done. It's, you know, there are still some people out there who say, oh it's never needed and it's, you know, always, always, um, something that we should try and avoid.

But actually it's an example if she can't even latch at all, no, 

[00:13:00] Lorah: she couldn't get on where that 

[00:13:00] Emma Pickett: procedure re really made a difference. Oh, a 

[00:13:02] Lorah: hundred percent. Without it, I don't, we wouldn't have been able to breastfeed, could not have done it. 

[00:13:07] Emma Pickett: How did things carry on? So after the procedure, you said it took her a little bit of time to get up and running.

How long would you say before things were as you hoped them to be? 

[00:13:14] Lorah: Uh, under a week, definitely just like a few days of her learning how to attach really. Because she was quite a small baby as well. But once she'd got it, yeah, went great then. Didn't have any issues after that. And when 

[00:13:29] Emma Pickett: did she come to an 

[00:13:29] Lorah: end?

Oh, I'd say just before her second birthday. 

[00:13:33] Emma Pickett: And was she yourself wiener as well, or did you need to bring things to a close? 

[00:13:37] Lorah: I had to bring things to her close because I was having another, supposed to be having another operation and then. After that second operation would've took place, start radiation, which you cannot breastfeed when you need to be three months of stopped breastfeeding before you can start 

[00:13:53] Emma Pickett: radiation.

Okay. Right. So we've jumped into the middle of your, your cancer story there, um, and, and your medical story. Let's, let's take a little step back. What's the beginning of your journey with your medical issues and, and what part of the body are we talking about? First of all? 

[00:14:11] Lorah: So I have cancer in my thyroid, which is in your neck.

It's sort of like, um, an organ that helps all your just quite a lot actually. I feel like I took it for granted. It helps like regulate your hormones. It helps. I can't think from, I've made so much stuff that you wouldn't even realize. Yeah. Metabolism. That's 

[00:14:32] Emma Pickett: part of lactation as well. It's a hormone that's needed for lactation, produ.

Um, so yeah. Yeah. I'm not a doctor so I'm not gonna be able to answer anyone's questions about this, but we know it definitely has an impact on lots of different body, body systems. A lot that don't think about how, how old were you when you started to have issues with, with your thyroid? 

[00:14:50] Lorah: I didn't really have any thyroid issues per se.

Um, like nothing red flag for them to think of. There might be an issue, let's run some blood work. Um, it was only because I had found, I had a lump in my neck, which triggered the whole ball rolling to get things done. So this was after Madison was born? Yes, sir. You found the lump? It was in December of 22.

So Madison would've been running a bit when I found it. Okay. So you felt that lump in 

[00:15:22] Emma Pickett: your neck and you had no clue what that might be. Obviously we tend to think lumps can be a scary thing, but we don't really understand what we, we would talk a lot about lumps in breasts, don't we? Yeah. But we don't talk a lot about lumps in other places.

You went to your gp? 

[00:15:38] Lorah: Yeah, no, just like, um, I was having an asthma attack. I was feeling my neck. 'cause when you're having attacks you do the most craziest things. And I thought, oh, if I pull my neck, I'll be able to breathe well. And that's when I felt the lump. They had a feel there was like, oh, it's probably just a cyst.

Um, have you been unwell lately? Well, it didn't feel like I was unwell, but they were just like, oh, well we'll just have a scan. I had, um, an ultrasound on my neck in the January. Um, and it flagged, um, sort of like, it had blood vessels run into it, which was a little bit concerning. So there was like, oh, let's look in depth at this.

And they sent me for a biopsy in, okay. February, um, wasn't too bad, just sort of like a needle in your neck. Then the results came back, but it came back inconclusive. So there was 

[00:16:31] Emma Pickett: like uming and erring. Oh, that must have been so frustrating. Well, the way you're describing this, Lorah, you're coming across in a, you seem really calm when you're talking about this.

Yeah. And you're, and you're talking about this journey is, yeah. Had a lump, had a biopsy, inconclusive. You seem really calm, and obviously you've had time to process this, and other things have happened to you since then. But I'm just trying to go back to a world where you had three little girls, you know, two.

Not super old, no. Madison, obviously very little and, and you've got all this uncertainty happening. How, how are you feeling em emotionally? What was your mental health like during this period 

[00:17:06] Lorah: while it was all going on? It was all very scary. I remember spending a lot of time crying, thinking, you know, if it is terrible news, you know, I couldn't, it'd be so awful to leave my kids.

I would, I wouldn't even know how I would've had to explain it to him. 'cause there was quite young Madison being too young and just being, it was very just scary. But I did feel supported because I had my family, I had my friends, I had the hospital just being like, oh, it's, you know, it's gonna be okay.

Regardless of what the outcome was, there was gonna help and support me and help me fight through anything. I did feel supported as, as well as being scared, but I guess anybody's gonna feel scared. Yeah, no, absolutely. 

[00:17:53] Emma Pickett: Absolutely. And you talked about getting those inconclusive results and, and how, what happened next?

Did you have to have another biopsy? 

[00:17:59] Lorah: Yep. I had another two after that. 'cause the second one came back inconclusive and then the third one came back inconclusive. Oh golly. Lord, I, what a nightmare. Such bad looks. Even the people, the, the endocrinologist, they're the people that give you the results. 'cause the endocrine team is what you are under for your thyroid.

That's just what it falls under. They said it was just like such bad luck to get three in a row that was inconclusive, but they had to remove it anyway because it was. Eight centimeters and it was blocking my airway. So the thing that I wasn't having, um, asthma attacks, I was slowly being cut off. That's what I kept feeling.

That feeling was, that's why they had to chop it out. 

[00:18:48] Emma Pickett: So they thought it wasn't asthma, it was actually this, so this growth that was a tumor that at this point, you dunno whether it's cancerous or benign, there's tumor growing. So yikes. That, that's super scary. So you just, you went f forward for the operation, did you say eight centimeters?

Eight 

[00:19:03] Lorah: centimeters, yeah. It was quite big and I couldn't see it myself 'cause I'm not a doctor, but every doctor I saw after I had my biopsies, before I had the operation, we'd be like, oh yeah, we can see it. And it's like, just from looking at me, you can see the lump. It was crazy. 

[00:19:21] Emma Pickett: What, just on the front, on the front of your neck?

Yeah. People could, could see it, could see it clear as there. So when you went to the operation at this point. Did you say that you hadn't weaned Madison yet? No. Still feeding her? 

[00:19:32] Lorah: Yeah. 

[00:19:33] Emma Pickett: So you were feeding her through the biopsy, through all these test results? Through the operation? Yeah. Yeah. And how, how did you get on with the operation leaving her?

What, what happened with the, how, how long were you away from her and, and did you breastfeed in the hospital? Did she come and visit you? How long were you away? So I was only 

[00:19:50] Lorah: away for one day and one night I had expressed, 'cause I knew that she would need feeding. Uh, I think Tony brought her to me the next day as we came to pick me up from the hospital and she had a quick feed.

Then I just had to wait, I think he said six hours after the anesthetic had worn off because they knew I was breastfeeding. So I, I had anesthetic that you would have if you was having a C-section. So it's not. Yeah, I'm trying to, how he explained it to me, it was you, you come round from it faster and it's safer or something.

Okay. For me to breastfeed. 

[00:20:26] Emma Pickett: So I'm gonna say something a bit that might be a bit annoying for you to hear, but that six hours recommendation, I think we need to challenge that because when people have C-sections they breastfeed straight away. 

[00:20:36] Lorah: I know, right? That's what I thought. 

[00:20:38] Emma Pickett: They breastfeed literally while they're being stitched up.

Stitched up. Some people are breastfeeding, um, and you can breastfeed as soon as you come round. And some people aren't necessarily completely knocked under when they're having a C-section. So maybe that's a little bit different. But if you look at the information provided by the drugs in breast milk service and provided by UK dials.

Really a general anesthetic clears your system very quickly, and once you are awake and alert and able to breastfeed, it should be safe to breastfeed. Especially when you have a, you know, 1-year-old, it's not even a tiny wee baby. So there isn't really a reason why anybody should be told to wait six hours or 12 hours or 24 hours.

There are sometimes other drugs involved Yeah. In, in medical procedures that can make a difference. But I don't think the general anesthetic itself should have been a barrier. 

[00:21:24] Lorah: No, I don't think so. But I was like, oh, those things seem to know best, so I'll just wait. 

[00:21:32] Emma Pickett: Yeah. Well anyway, we don't wanna go back.

And luckily I'd pumped so she had enough. Yeah. You had enough going on without looking back and being frustrated about that, but luckily, as you say, she was old enough, you'd pumped. Um, that that was all good. All good news. Yeah. And then did they presumably have a look at what they'd taken out and examine that a bit more closely?

[00:21:50] Lorah: Yeah. She said when they took it out, they thought, you know, let's have a look. And that's when they discovered, actually it was cancer. And I was just like, oh, thank God. I mean, thank God they took it out. What? Thank God I found it. Thank God. Um, I had, what I say was the asthma attack. 'cause if I wanted to know, that would've just kept on growing.

'cause I had no other symptoms 

[00:22:11] Emma Pickett: at all. Okay. And then you talked about radiation. For someone who doesn't know what that means, so we've got two, you know, we, people hear about chemotherapy, they hear about radiation. What, what, how does radiation work? Tell us, talk us through the process of having it. 

[00:22:25] Lorah: So it was really cool actually, and I really wish they, they let me, um, film it.

I wanted to do like a video for TikTok, which told me it wasn't allowed to. It was a like a capsule that you had to swallow, you couldn't touch. It came in like a tube. They were all suited and booted. When they were passing me, I was thinking as I was about to swallow it, like wow, this is crazy. I'm putting this in my body and she's all suited and booted and I've got to swallow it.

Um, and yeah, as you swallow it, you have to be on this very strict diet before you have that, which it's called the low iodine diet. And then that makes the tablet all make all the badness to just where your neck is. So she said when they do your scan on day seven, your neck should like light up with all the radiation just there and 'cause that's where it's wanting to fight the cancer and eat the cancer from just where it is there in your neck.

[00:23:20] Emma Pickett: Okay. So it kind of puts like a marker where Yeah. Where they need to focus the treatment. Yeah. And, and when you take, when you eat this thing that's so radioactive that everyone else is suited and booted, does that, does, does that affect your breastfeeding? Did they give you any, is it okay to go home and hug your kids?

I'm guessing it must be 'cause they didn't tell you you couldn't. 

[00:23:40] Lorah: Um, no. I had to be away. So I had to be in hospital for five days away from everybody. Even like staff nurse. There was like, um, like a, a line on the floor, which I couldn't pass there, couldn't pass. I had to stand right in the back wall when anybody entered the room.

And then when I did come home on day five, I had to be away from my kids for another five days. 'cause they test your levels every three days and then on when you go home, they average it out of what you are gonna drop over the next so many days to when it's safe to. Hug people, touch people. Golly, 

[00:24:16] Emma Pickett: I can't, I, okay.

I'll talk in a minute about how on earth you manage that with the girls. Difficult, I can't imagine how you did that, but, but ob I'm guessing your breastfeeding has ended now. Yep. That you can't, you, you, none of that breast milk can be given to medicine. And that's, so did you have to end the breastfeeding quite abruptly?

Like as soon as you found out this treatment was needed? 

[00:24:33] Lorah: Yeah, after I had that operation and then they'd biopsy it after it was out and then they said, actually it's cancer. We need to go back in, take the rest of your thyroid out. 'cause it's spread into it. And then as soon as you've had that operation, you need to have radiation, but you need to have stopped breastfeeding for three months.

So on, I'm trying to think what month. It was like August time of 23, they told me I had to stop pretty much within days. Because I need to have those three months so that I can start as soon as possible. 

[00:25:07] Emma Pickett: Okay. So had about 

[00:25:08] Lorah: three days to cut her off. 

[00:25:11] Emma Pickett: Golly. I'm gonna ask you a bit more about that in a minute, but I'm just trying to get my head around the timeline.

So when you took this pill that that meant you had to stay away from people, you'd had to have already not been breastfeeding for three months. Is that what Yes. Or were you, or you were you taking, okay, I understand why three months was chosen. Did anyone ever give you a reason as to why it was three months?

[00:25:30] Lorah: Um, something about, um, your milk production and the treatment itself, if you are, it's still is like active as in like you are producing milk, that the treatment would go there and it can cause breast cancer. So that's why I had to have stopped breastfeeding. 

[00:25:46] Emma Pickett: Okay. So your BloodStream's not going around all your milk producing cells and, and spreading everything around.

Okay. Okay, that makes sense. So you said that you had to end ma breastfeeding medicine Yeah. Within three days. Um, how on earth did you do that? When you were already going through this huge emotional journey and, and going through this absolutely horrible, horrible, life-changing experience to have to end breastfeeding right in the middle of that and support her emotionally.

I can't imagine how you do that. How did you go around doing that? It was 

[00:26:14] Lorah: difficult. I was, I remember being very sad because I just felt very pressured, but I knew I had to do it 'cause we're talking about my life and I didn't wanna leave my kids. And so it was like sad. But, you know, I had to do it. She was kind of ready, so it wasn't as bad, you know, a few cries.

A you know, I, I remember buying her a special bottle. We went to the shop, I said, we, you know, you're a big girl now. You're gonna have big girl milk and you could let her choose the bottle. I, I had a stash in the freezer, so I would give her little bits here and there, but we just started like slowly introducing more and more and more cows milk to the point where she would just have the bottle on and then I wouldn't just give her any booby at all.

Well, it felt like a very long three days. 

[00:27:05] Emma Pickett: I mean, and you've just come back from an operation, so she must sense that something's up. She must know that mommy's, you know, mommy's needing a rest and mommy's body isn't quite, um, operating at, at full speed. Was that part of the story with her, that mommy's body stopped making milk?

Or, or how did you talk to her about it? 

[00:27:22] Lorah: No, I just sort of was like, you are a big girl now. You, you don't need mommy's milk anymore. Or we would call it booby. Um. No, just, she was just too young for her to really understand all me, to try and tell her about it. So I just thought if I'd go down the, the thing of you are, you're a big girl now.

[00:27:43] Emma Pickett: Yeah. Oh yeah. And then, um, it's good that she wasn't too distressed. It sounds like, as you say, she was pretty close to being ready and anyway. Yes, definitely. And then tell me about this bit. When you come home and you can't hug the girls for five days, how do you even do that? I mean, are you, I can't even imagine how you talk about it with them and how you keep Madison away from you.

How did you do that? So I 

[00:28:02] Lorah: had to put, um, the safety gate on the bedroom door 'cause I was confined to just the bedroom. And then them locked would be downstairs or in their bedroom. It was very difficult. She would come to the gate and be like, shouting Mommy. And I could talk to her and I'd just be like, no, you can't come in.

You know, mommy, you'll see you soon. I, Tony just found it easier to just take them out pretty much all day and go do fun things rather than them being here one hounding me and two trying to come in to see me. 'cause it's obviously upsetting for everybody. 

[00:28:35] Emma Pickett: Yeah, I can imagine. And, and, and you too as well, and you had to go out to use the bathroom and just make sure everyone was staying away from you.

Yeah, I would text, I'd be like, I'm gonna go to the 

[00:28:44] Lorah: loo. No one come up them the stairs for like a minute or something while I just go to the toilet. And then you've got to like clean the toilet down, double flush it, and then Yeah. Go away. You've got to be three meters away from anybody any one time. 

[00:28:58] Emma Pickett: Yeah.

And this is, and you've mentioned Tony, your partner a couple of times. Tough, tough for him, too. Worried about you. Having to care for all the girls and keep them feeling secure and safe. And, and Heidi was old enough now to realize that something's going on. Oh, definitely. Did you explain to her what was happening and, and what was going on with you?

[00:29:16] Lorah: Yeah, Heidi was really helpful. Like as much as she could help, like, help with the little ones. 'cause when I had all this treatment going on, Luca was alive. He was quite young, um, when I had radiation. So yeah, she helped as much as possible. She understood it the most. Definitely. I didn't really talk about it in depth, just, you know, the bare minimum not to scare her per se, not to tell her like too much where she would worry.

[00:29:47] Emma Pickett: Yeah. It's difficult to get that balance right, isn't it? Because if we don't say anything often their imagination, we'll fill the gaps anyway. Yeah. So we just have to get that, about that balance. Right. I had love to tell you about my four most recent books. So we've got the story of Jesse's Milky, which is a picture book from two to six year olds that really tells the story of little Jesse and how his breastfeeding journey may come to an end in one of three different ways.

Maybe there'll be a new baby sister. Maybe his mom will need to practice parenthood weaning. Maybe he'll have a self weaning ending. It's a book that helps your little people understand that there are lots of different ways breastfeeding journeys might end, that we are there to support them through all of them.

And also we sometimes have needs to also want endings. We have supporting the transition from breastfeeding, which is a guide to weaning that really talks through how to bring breastfeeding to a close in a way that protects your emotional connection with your child. There are also chapters on different individual situations like weaning an older child when there's still a baby, feeding, weaning in an emergency, weaning in a special needs situation.

Then we have supporting breastfeeding past the first six months and beyond. That's really a companion to sit alongside you as you carry on breastfeeding through babyhood and beyond. What are the common challenges and how can we overcome them? And let's hear some stories about other people who've had a natural term breastfeeding gym.

Me. Then we have the breast book, which is a puberty guide for nine to 14 year olds. It talks about how breasts grow. It answers common questions. It talks about what breastfeeding is. I talk about bras. I really want to leave a little person feeling confident and well-informed as breasts enter their lives.

So if you want to buy any of those books, I am eternally grateful. If you want to buy one of the supporting books, you can go to the Jessica Kingsley Press website. That's uk.jkp.com. Use the code mm PE 10 to get 10% off. And if you have read one of those books and you can take a moment to do an online review, I would be incredibly grateful.

It really, really makes a difference. And as you can tell from the fact I'm making this advert, I have no publicity budget. Thank you.

Okay. Help me out with the timeframe. So. You've had Madison, you notice the lump, you have the operation, you have all the inconclusive results, you have the thyroid removed, they realize it's cancer. You're given this, this special pill that, that lights up the areas. And then those are the areas that have your first round of radiation treatment.

Or is the pill itself the treatment? Because when I think of radiation, I think of people lying down on a bed and with a, there's a little, you know, marker where all the radiation's being directed. That's not what we're talking about. The pill itself is the treat? No, that, that's radio 

[00:32:35] Lorah: radiotherapy. Um, nothing like that.

Okay. Thank you. That's the, that's the kind of information I need from you. Okay. Yes, because there's lots of different, you've got chemo, you've got radiotherapy, you have radiation. Every cancer is so different and every method is so different. Um, so my cancer reacts to radiation, which is the tablet that you swallow.

It wouldn't have reacted to the radiotherapy. Okay. 

[00:33:00] Emma Pickett: So when people say radiation treatment, sometimes it means the, the rays being directed, sometimes it means the pill for thyroid, it's very likely that it's gonna be this pill treatment. Yes. Um, so when you take the pill, that in itself is attacking the cells, the actual pill itself.

Yeah. And you only have, and you just had the one, the one pill, and that's a round of radiation treatment. 

[00:33:21] Lorah: Yep. 

[00:33:21] Emma Pickett: Okay. So we had that first one when Madison was little. No, 

[00:33:25] Lorah: no, I did, I didn't have that then. Um, so I had the first operation in April of, uh, July of 23. And they took it out, um, because it was cut my airway off.

Then they found out that it was cancer. So I was scheduled to have the rest of it out in the October of the same year in 2023. Medicine would've been 18 ish months about then. But when I went to my pre-op for that operation, they found out I was pregnant and that would've been Luca. Okay. 

[00:34:02] Emma Pickett: Right. Okay. So here comes Luca right at a moment when you were just about to get stuck into treatment.

Yeah. And someone's told you you've got lots of cells in your body and Yikes. Yeah, that is, that must have been a, a day that was amazing. And a day that was scary. All at the same time. So what did you feel when you found out you were pregnant, while you were in, literally in that sort of pre-op space? 

[00:34:23] Lorah: I was shocked to say the least, because I never forget to take my pill.

But the thing, because when I'd have got pregnant would've been, um, about two weeks after I'd had that first operation. So the, the think that because my body had been through a lot, I'd had loads of antibiotics because of the operation, that my pill obviously didn't work, and that's how I accidentally 

[00:34:47] Emma Pickett: got pregnant.

Yeah, that's good for people to know actually. 'cause antibiotics can interfere with, with a contraceptive pill, which I don't think everybody realizes it. I did not know. 

[00:34:56] Lorah: I would definitely recommend anybody taking antibiotics to double up on protection if you're not wanting to have another baby, that's for sure.

[00:35:05] Emma Pickett: Yeah. So you find out you're pregnant and your doctors say, oh, so we've gotta pause the treatment. We, we can't keep going. Well, 

[00:35:13] Lorah: I had a choice. It was to terminate and proceed with the operation and radiation straight away or to have the baby and to pause things. And it was a lot to take in on, a lot to think about.

'cause we had obviously information at that time. Once they told me I had cancer, I had a lot of support from Macmillan and they do like support groups and stuff. So it was talking to other people that had been in my situation. 'cause there's a lot of people that have been in my situation where I've got diagnosed with cancer and then.

Accidentally or somehow got pregnant and then had to make decisions whether they was going to keep the baby or not. And it was weighing up all the odds of, if I keep the baby, am I gonna risk my life? You know, if I'd terminate, would I then think about that for the rest of my life? Would I be able to forgive myself?

So it was a lot to 

[00:36:08] Emma Pickett: process. Yeah. Gosh, that is the understatement of the century. That what a huge decision to make. Especially when you've got, you've got three little girls as well. That's, that's intense. So we've got, spoiler alert, we've got Baby Lucas. So we know which way you decided to go. And that meant you had to delay treatment for a long time.

[00:36:28] Lorah: Yeah, at least a year. Well, I had to wait until Luca was six weeks old before I could have the operation, because you need to have your body to like settle after having a baby and been pregnant and given birth. So the very earliest they could have done it would've been at six weeks. But they did monitor me throughout the entire pregnancy.

So I had lots of scans and blood tests and they said at any point if it was growing again dramatically, that I would have to have the baby earlier to have the operation. That there was lots of talks about that. Luckily it didn't come to that. Thyroid cancer is a slow growing cancer luckily, so it grows slowly.

So that gave me time to be able to have Luca. Okay. 

[00:37:12] Emma Pickett: And in terms of your symptoms, are you feeling anything? Are you feeling tired? Are you, well obviously you're pregnant, so I guess you dunno what's, what's the symptom and what's, not a symptom, but were there any symptoms that you were feeling that were down to having the cancer?

[00:37:24] Lorah: No. I would say, yeah, I probably felt more tired, but again, that could be, 'cause I was an older mom, I already had three kids to look after and this was the fourth baby, or who knows, it could have been a bit of everything. Having cancer and being pregnant and had I at the time only had half a thyroid 'cause it'd already removed half.

[00:37:43] Emma Pickett: So you're taking medication Yes. To, to replace what your thyroid would've been doing Le oxide. Yeah. And I guess the, the monitoring. Yeah. It's good old levothyroxine. So your, um, blood tests are probably monitoring to make sure the levels of that are right as well. So you give birth and then you start breastfeeding.

Yep. And you, you are knowing that this operation is going to be coming and this treatment's going to be coming. Did that change how you felt about that breastfeeding and, and Lucas's early days? 

[00:38:11] Lorah: I felt like my last breastfeeding journey was like a, I just cherished every moment of it because I knew he'd been my last baby for sure.

For is a lot four, isn't it? But, 'cause I knew I was on a time limit 'cause I knew I absolutely could not do it for any more than one year. So I just cherished and loved every moment of my breastfeeding journey, knowing that every day was a day I'd never get back. And it was a day counting onto when I would have radiation.

[00:38:41] Emma Pickett: Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine that felt really special. And especially when you've had, you know, you've fed a 3-year-old, you know the difference to then being told you've only got a year. I wonder how we'd all feel if we were told you're only allowed to breastfeed for a year. Take the, make the most of it.

It's a lot of pressure. It makes it, it's a lot of pressure, but maybe there's also something to be cherished in that as well. So you are breastfeeding for one year after baby, after Luca's born. So you're being monitored all the way through the pregnancy. Yeah, you're monitored all the way through that first year.

And is anyone saying to you. Lorah, are you bananas? What are you doing? Stop breastfeeding. Freaking start the treatment. What are you, are you crazy? What, what, what? I mean, you obviously made a choice to breastfeed for a year and that meant f further delay to the treatment. If you'd hadn't breastfed for a week, um, you know, you'd have been able to start the treatment straight away, but you, you wanted to have that year of breastfeeding that really mattered to you.

How, how did you make that decision? Just 'cause I just, 

[00:39:38] Lorah: I watched people bottle feed and I just saw the struggle of like counting the scoops and boiling water and sterilizing things. And I just thought, it's so stressful. I have enough stress in my life. I don't want to be doing that. I've breastfed three.

I don't want him to be my last and to have not breastfed. And I just, I, I just, my relationship with breastfeeding, it's just the best thing I've ever done. And I will forever be grateful to my body that it did it and I miss it even now. And it, it has not been that long since I've stopped feeding. Just, I, I needed to do it.

I, I felt like I would, a part of me would've been missing if I wouldn't have done it. 

[00:40:17] Emma Pickett: Yeah, no, you described that that very beautifully. So, so obviously, you know, nothing had happened with your, your cancer. It was, as you say, being kept under control, still slow growing. So you had that time, you carry on doing the monitoring all the way through that year.

And so during that year when Luca was still breastfeeding, you didn't have any treatment, no further operations during that year? 

[00:40:37] Lorah: Yeah. When he was six weeks old, I had, um, the last operation when he was six weeks old to remove the rest of the tumor, the rest of my thyroid, and get everything that could possibly get out.

[00:40:48] Emma Pickett: Okay. So that's, so they were able to the operation but not the radiation while you were still breastfeeding? Yeah. Going to have an operation when you've got a six week old baby. That's, that's pretty tough. And you're right, right in the middle of breastfeeding those early days of breastfeeding. Yep. So I, I mean, you expressed again, did you, and, and left milk for Tony.

How did that, how did that go? Yeah, 

[00:41:09] Lorah: I expressed again, but this time when it came to breastfeeding, 'cause again, the knew I had a newborn baby. As soon as I came around from surgery, Tony was waiting there for with me, for the baby. Um, and I fed straight away the, it was only a year difference pretty much.

And from when I had the other operation to this one and the first one, they set out to wait for six hours. This one, they just said, no feed baby. As soon as you wake up. 

[00:41:34] Emma Pickett: Okay, well that's a bit of a clue that maybe the first time around wasn't quite accurate. Well, good. Someone's obviously educated someone That's good news.

Yeah. I'm glad that you didn't have to do that again, because leaving a six week hold for six hours is a long time. Um. Okay. So you breastfed straight away. Yeah. And when you, you're just coming around from an operation, you know, you've got quite a big incision around your neck. You are not feeling great.

Oh. So, yeah. Uh, when was, were you able to hold him? How did that, what did kind of position did you use for that first feed? 

[00:42:01] Lorah: I had my pillow, so he was just sort of like laid on my pillow. Tony was at the side of me, just in case, like to hold him. 'cause I, even though it's your neck and you don't really have a lot on muscles in your neck, just moving your body or talking like anything hurt your neck dramatically.

It was the worst pain I've ever felt, but I did it a soldier through. 

[00:42:22] Emma Pickett: Yeah. Well you soldier is a good word. So, so the rest of the tumor's removed, it's, it's all gone. But to be on the safe side, we then want to have this radiation treatment, um, after you've ended breastfeeding, when that year is coming to a close.

How did you wrap things up? 'cause it's obviously very different. Weaning a 1-year-old than it is weaning a 3-year-old. 

[00:42:44] Lorah: Definitely. 

[00:42:45] Emma Pickett: How, how did you bring things to a close? 

[00:42:47] Lorah: Well, 'cause I always knew I only had the 12 months. I did a lot of time expressing, so I had quite a big stash of milk. I feel like I've always been an over producer as well.

I could always get a lot of milk off. I could have potentially before cancer with my other babies, could have donated milk. I feel at this point. Luca always had a bottle once a day, every day, so that when it came close to the time I could introduce milk faster because I'd just put it in the bottle. Okay.

And just sort of like, we did like 90% breast milk, 10% milk, and then 8% breast milk, 20% milk. And then just slowly did it that way. So he slowly introduced a milk. 

[00:43:28] Emma Pickett: So more and more. Um, and that was formula, presumably, or, or cow's milk. If he's 12 months. I'm trying to, what did milk, 

[00:43:35] Lorah: I did it till, I think it was about 11 months.

I slowly started putting cows milk in like little tiny bits until, 'cause I had four weeks to till. It was at the point where it was on just a bottle of cow's milk. 

[00:43:48] Emma Pickett: Okay. And, and emotionally, how did that feel? I guess you'd always prepared yourself for that moment. You knew it was coming. So did that sort of protect you from feelings of sadness or did that not make a difference?

It still felt really rough. 

[00:43:59] Lorah: No, still felt rough. Even though I knew I had 12 months and every day it got closer to it. You would like to think I was prepared. I was still sad. And the last feed I cried knowing that this would be the last one I took. I feel like I took extra pictures and videos of my experience just to look back on.

But yeah, I guess you can't really prepare yourself for something, something that you don't want to stop until they want to stop. 'cause he loved booby. They all did. They 

[00:44:27] Emma Pickett: all loved it. It was such a comfort to them. Yeah. And a comfort to you too, I'm guessing so. So that was the end of Luca's breastfeeding journey.

You go and get the magic pill. Yep. Three months left. Gosh, it must be so hard when you've got three months and thinking, oh, I could just sneak in one feed. But I guess you'd said, Nope, no, I'm inventing breastfeeding. They, these guys know what they're talking about. I don't want to, you know, if, if I don't want my breasts to have this stuff in, that's not good for them.

So there's a very logical reason why you need to breastfeeding. Yep. And then when you're home from the hospital, teeny weenie baby Luca. I mean, you know, he's what, 13, 14, 15 months old at this point. Yeah. You cannot say to a 15 month old, why is mommy hiding in the bedroom? Don't, there's no ability to explain that.

That's, that's tough on everyone who's looking after the kids to explain why. Mommy's away. Hence why I took 'em out. Yeah, I, I bet. And then at the end of those, those five days you are leaping downstairs. I mean, does an alarm go off? I mean, do you have to have a test? How do you know it's the day you're allowed to hug them?

[00:45:26] Lorah: No, just like on the last day of it, um, they wrote a date on a card that you have to carry around for three months. Um, I guess that's it in case you're like, found unconscious, something people need to know that you're still really active for a certain amount of time. Um, I just like, shut up out of bed, ev get everyone up ready for school.

'cause like even things like not being able to get them ready for school and. Make dinner like as much as a mum. You're like, oh, I can't wait for a break. And I was looking forward to my treatment just to have a little bit of a time of, but it was boring and it was really isolating. Oh no, I 

[00:46:03] Emma Pickett: forgot to ask you about that.

Actually, it was lovely. I was been focusing on the negatives, but actually mum of four, that's a chance for a little spa break potentially. But obviously I'm not dismissing how awful it must've been to be told you can't touch the kids. But it could have actually been a moment, as you say, the one time in your life when you actually get to, to do some reading and watch some telly and, but that, that got boring really fast.

It did. 

[00:46:25] Lorah: After I'd say it two days, I was like, I'm over this. I'm, I'm rested. I can't sleep anymore. I can't watch anything more, can't read anything more. I just, I wanna spend time with my kids. I wanna go out and do something. And it was just, it was, it was boring and isolating and lonely. 

[00:46:41] Emma Pickett: Yeah. Gosh. Yeah, I can imagine.

So I. You wake up, it's the day you're allowed to hug them. You leap out the room lots and lots of hugs. That must have been super special. 

[00:46:52] Lorah: Yes. Especially for Madison. Like Luca, yes, he was excited to see me, but he was just like, didn't really care as much as what Madison did. She would just like, oh mommy.

And then she's like, can I come in your room and can you come to school? It's like, yes, I can take her to school today. And 

[00:47:10] Emma Pickett: she was just very excited. Oh, bless. And then what happens next with your monitoring? So they presumably then have to test to make sure that the pill's done its magic work. 

[00:47:21] Lorah: Yeah. I had a scan like um, a body scan on day seven and then I received my results about six weeks ago now.

And it says currently there is no active cancer cells that they can see, but I just need to have a another scan next year. And I get three monthly blood tests. And if that scan next year stays the same results, I would be classed as in remission. 'cause you have to have two or more of the same result before they can say that it's worked and you're going forward.

[00:47:58] Emma Pickett: Okay. Brilliant. Gosh. Okay. So you're right in the middle of it. Six weeks ago is is not long. Um, so I'm very honored that you, that you wanted to come on and talk to me today. You still, you seem like you're a pretty calm, levelheaded sorted person and people who are going through this journey are allowed to be very wobbly and very scared.

Oh yeah, a hundred percent. Are you, are you, that's, is that all still in there? Yeah. And you are just really good at putting on a face. 

[00:48:23] Lorah: Oh no. Like, yeah, you have good days and you have bad days and there's still days that I will like cry about it. And I just think I've been through so much in the last, like two and a bit years and so much has happened.

And then I just have days where I just think, no, I've done it. I've, I've done this amazing thing. And even though it's hard, you've pushed through it and, but yeah, you do, you, you get good and you get bad days and I feel like those days of crying, it helps you just to like regulate yourself and just take a bit of pressure off.

[00:48:53] Emma Pickett: Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine. And I think lots of people listen, who will listen to your story will be really struck by the fact that you delayed treatment for a year to breastfeed and how needed to do it, how important that was. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't a choice for you. In some ways it doesn't sound like that was something you had to debate because you just knew you had to, that it just, you didn't want to look back and regret having made that decision in a way that didn't feel right.

Yeah. I remember 

[00:49:17] Lorah: saying to Tony that even if the worst was to happen and, and I'd left it too late and I would die regardless. I would know that I gave him the best start in life and that he had that year. And I had that year because I said I could not feed, have this treatment and still die, and then I would've died and not done something I really wanted to do.

So I thought, this is important to me. I want to do it regardless of the risks. And I'm glad I did 

[00:49:44] Emma Pickett: it. Super glad. Gosh, Lorah, that is a pretty amazing last two minutes of what you just said. That is, I'm gonna weep, which is really wimpy, so forgive me. But that is powerful stuff. That is really powerful stuff.

You know yourself, I can tell. I can tell you, you know, what matters to you and you know, what's important to you. Well, it's 

[00:50:02] Lorah: very 

[00:50:02] Emma Pickett: important to me. Yeah, I I can definitely see that. Gosh, I'm so impressed. You talked a bit about Macmillan. Yep. And the Macmillan community. Tell me a bit more about how that support worked.

Is that, are you assigned a nurse? Is it about online support? Did you meet people going through what you're going through? What form did that support take? 

[00:50:22] Lorah: So, yeah, you, well, I was, um, assigned a nurse. My nurse was Kathy. She was very good. She was always at the end of an email. I guess I could have called her as well.

She put me in touch with Maggie's, the hospital where I was, which was, um, leads oncology. Um, at the back of the building, there's a little building there, which is Maggie's, which supports everyone going through any sort of cancer treatment, whether that be chemo, radiation, radiotherapy. They do support groups, they do chat groups.

They even do like little, um, makeup classes. I remember seeing on one of the things. And then there's a community 

[00:50:59] Emma Pickett: on Facebook that I joined. And, and though in that community, there are people going through what you're going through, people who are pregnant, people who are post pregnant. And, and did you, did you meet someone who, who you're still in touch with now and do you think what you'll be in touch with in the long term?

Or is it just kinda like a, a message board in, in the moment? 

[00:51:15] Lorah: Yeah, just sort of like in the moment really. I just read other people's experiences. Um, and my nurse was very, she told me like stories of people who she knew went through pretty much why I went through where they'd got pregnant and stuff, and then the delayed treatment, and then even one lady delayed treatment to have one baby and then had another baby and breastfed that baby and then started treatment like three years later.

And she, she just, she survived and she did a treatment and she's still well to this day. 

[00:51:50] Emma Pickett: Wow. Well that's, that's good to hear. And there's a, there's another charity called Mommy Star. Have you come across them? Oh, no. So, so Mommy star.org um, is a charity that supports people who have cancer diagnoses during pregnancy.

And in the first year after baby. It sounds like you had lots of support from Maggie's and from Macmillan, so maybe you didn't need another charity, but, but Mommy star, I'll put that link in the show notes as well, because they're particularly specialized on people getting a diagnosis in this part of their lives.

Oh, where there are so many other considerations and things to think about. That's amazing. Lorah, you are bloody amazing. Can I please say that? Thank you. I'm just you. You really are. I'm just so impressed by your ability to know yourself and know what matters to you and know what your family need and, and I can imagine that makes you a brilliant mom because you're just somebody who just is really just, just in touch with your instincts, which is such a, a powerful gift.

How are you feeling physically today? How are you feeling in terms of, um, your recovery from everything? 

[00:52:50] Lorah: Great. I just feel more like I'm myself. 'cause I feel like it was the, the end to it after such a long time to process it all and go through it all that I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now and I just feel like I'm getting my life back on track.

And it's just in the past now, 

[00:53:09] Emma Pickett: hopefully. Yeah. We haven't talked through any of this about your work. Do you, do you work? What's your working life? 

[00:53:15] Lorah: Oh, um, I did have a job. I used to work at Withers Spoons and I'm just currently on sick leave and I will be going back, um, hopefully, probably in the new year, to be honest.

I'm feeling great. I don't feel as tired anymore. Every day that goes on, I feel more remind myself. So 

[00:53:33] Emma Pickett: Good. And presumably you'll be on your thyroxine treatment forever. For your, for the rest of your life. For life. For three chi three, cheers for thyroxine and love thyroxine. So you will carry on having blood tests.

Yep. You're carry on being monitored. And um, you know, when you are get, get that news about being in remission, um, you know, the, the, your carry on having those monitoring tests for your thyroid. Yeah. 

[00:53:54] Lorah: Forever. Thank God for that drug. It just, it's so amazing what it does. It's such a tiny little tablet, but it does all these amazing things.

'cause without it, my THS and T four level was skyrocketing. 

[00:54:09] Emma Pickett: Yeah. So. One final question that, and you can tell me to get stuffed if this feels a bit rubbish, but, but did you ever think about lactating? Did you ever think after all the treatment I could restart breastfeeding again? Or did you bring yourself to a close around breastfeeding and say goodbye to it and that didn't feel right?

[00:54:26] Lorah: I did, I did actually ask that after I had had my radiation treatment, if I, 'cause I know you can get, um, a tablet that starts you to produce milk because I know, um, a friend, a lesbian couple who they take it and turns to breastfeed their baby and the one who wasn't pregnant was given the tablet and that's how she managed to breastfeed.

So I know it was a possibility, but I was gonna give it a go. But after like. Half, I dunno, about three months. Luca had just completely forgot about breastfeeding and he doesn't try and latch anymore and he's just not interested and he loves his bottles. I feel like if I tried to do it now, he wouldn't be interested.

[00:55:11] Emma Pickett: Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. I guess if he'd been a lot younger Yeah. And that would've been a different story, but if, if he'd naturally got to a point of saying goodbye anyway, it's not like he was desperately showing a need. Yeah. Yeah. So people do sometimes lactate and, and the, the tablet that you are talking about, I'm guessing you're talking about donperidone.

Yeah. It is possible to switch your milk back on just with stimulation. You don't necessarily even have to take a tablet, but that's for anyone who's listening who might be in that space. Um, but I totally understand why it wasn't something that, that Luca needed. 

[00:55:39] Lorah: No. Yeah. Sadly. But. I feel like I continue my breastfeeding journey through supporting other people.

'cause I just trained to be a bosom buddy, which is, um, a breastfeeding peer support worker. 'cause breastfeeding means so much to me and I couldn't imagine not having it in my life. That I enjoy going to breastfeeding group and giving people support that I can through my journey of having four kids, two at untie, one autistic.

[00:56:08] Emma Pickett: Yeah, you have, you must be a fantastic peer supporter 'cause you've got all these different experiences to share and all these different breastfeeding journeys mm-hmm. And all these different weaning journeys. Those and buddies sounds like a brilliant organization. I know you've been doing the, uh, the Saturday's older breastfeeding session, um, which I think is fantastic as well.

Yes. And it's just really lovely to hear about a breastfeeding support group acknowledging that people breastfeeding toddlers and older children need that support too. Oh, hundred percent. Um, so you, you tr you trained as a peer supporter. Yeah. And are you going to be able to support in groups once you've gone back to work as well?

[00:56:40] Lorah: Well, I could, um, support in groups now if I wanted to. Um, I tend to go on a Wednesday to the one close to me. Um, I'm probably gonna try and go back next week. I'm so excited in my little t-shirt and with my little certificate. 

[00:56:54] Emma Pickett: Oh, fantastic. So you, so Ellie is also a, uh, local. Yes. Ellie on the podcast. I 

[00:57:00] Lorah: met Ellie at the breastfeeding group.

[00:57:02] Emma Pickett: Um, oh, fantastic. I'm so pleased that you've, you've taken that into, I wonder whether there's a, there's actually a, a niche for moms that are, you know, pregnant and breastfeeding and, and also have cancer stories, whether that's something you can be supportive of. Do you ever go back on the forums? Um, I'm just thinking you must be a real, real champion of breastfeeding.

'cause there must be people who want to know about, you know, how breastfeeding can work out while they're going through treatment. And, and you've got, you've got that experience to share as well. 

[00:57:30] Lorah: Definitely. Ellie was the reason why I wanted to do the podcast. 'cause she said like, it's just such a, an interesting and fascinating story and like, just to get it out there so other people that are going through it know like that they can do it and that there is support out there and that it is gonna be difficult and you can be said about it and you can also be happy about it.

I'm really glad that I did it. 

[00:57:57] Emma Pickett: Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things I've, I've been struck by is, is you talking about Yeah. I was sad. Yeah. Yep. I was sad that I weaned doesn't mean it wasn't, didn't bring great joy as well. But, but you, you are allowed to be sad a hundred percent. And even though you're gonna start treatment and that's great and, you know, moving forward with that, you can still have that huge sense of loss and, and, and thinking about your final breastfeeding journey.

Definitely. Yeah. Thank you so much for your time today, Lorah. Thank you for having me. I'm grateful. You are inspiring, you are amazing, and um, I'm really glad that people can hear your story. And so we've talked about Maggie's, we've talked about Bo and Buddies, we've talked about macmillan, I've mentioned Mommy star.

Is there anything else in terms of resources or places to get information that you think people need to know about? 

[00:58:40] Lorah: Hmm. No, just to like, well, for my cancer, specifically the thyroid cancer, again, I joined a Facebook group. There's so many communities out there for all sorts of cancer and it's just nice to join those groups and know that you're not alone and you, there is other people going through it because as much as it's easy to vent to like family and friends, it's better and just more comforting to vent to somebody who's going through what you are going through because they really do understand what it's like.

And I feel like they can be more supportive than people that haven't or aren't going through it. 

[00:59:19] Emma Pickett: Yeah. And I'm guessing with your family and loved ones, you want to kind of protect them Yes. A little bit and not necessarily share with them, you know, your darkest thoughts and whereas people going through it can absolutely un unhear that from you and, and feel okay about that.

Yeah. Three cheers for social media. Social media gets lots of a rough, lots of rough comments, but actually in this particular world, what a difference that must have made. Oh yes. Massive. Can you imagine doing this 40, 40 years ago and you know, you might possibly be able to drive to some support group.

Probably Kathy would've phoned you, but there'd been none of the online information. None of the online support community would've been different. Yeah, it would've been 

[00:59:54] Lorah: very isolating then and feeling like you don't really have anyone to talk to. 'cause it does affect your family. And some days you don't wanna talk about it with them because you just wanna have a day where you're not talking about cancer or talking about being sick.

'cause it affects them too. Even though it's me going through it, it mentally affects other people and you just want to just have a, a good day. Of, 

[01:00:17] Emma Pickett: of what your life used to be like. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Thank you so much for your time today, Lorah. You've been very vivid and very descriptive and very open, and I'm, I'm really grateful.

And, and yeah, I look forward to hearing about your results in a year's time and, and you being all, all clear. Um, yeah. And, uh, yeah, fingers crossed. Thanks so much for your time. Yeah. Crossing everything. Um, thank you very much for your time today. Perfect. Thank you so much for having me up.

Thank you for joining me today. You can find me on Instagram at Emma Pickett Ibclc and on Twitter at Makes milk. It would be lovely if you subscribed because that helps other people to know I exist and leaving a review would be great as well. Get in touch if you would like to join me to share your feeding or weaning journey, or if you have any ideas for topics to include in the podcast.

This podcast is produced by the lovely Emily Crosby Media.