Becoming a CIO

What does it really take to become a Chief Information Officer? In this episode of the No Ordinary Tech Podcast, Dr. Shini Somara sits down with Amit Thawani (CIO, Lloyds Banking Group) and Allan Cockriel (Chief Information and Data Officer, ASML). Discover their journeys to the top, how the CIO role has evolved, and the skills - both technical and human - that drive innovation and resilience in today’s digital world.

To explore career opportunities in technology and engineering, visit Careers – Lloyds Banking Group plc 

Transcript

Dr. Shini Somara: 00:00 Welcome back to the No Ordinary Tech podcast, where we’re exploring careers and the pathways shaping the future of technology and leadership. I’m your host, Dr. Shini Somara. Today we’re diving into what it really takes to become a Chief Information Officer. Joining me are Amit Thawani, Chief Information Officer at Lloyds Banking Group, and Allan Cockriel, Chief Information and Data Officer at ASML. Together we’ll explore how they’ve shaped enterprise technology strategy, navigated pivotal moments in their careers, and driven innovation and resilience in an era of rapid digital transformation. Amit, Allan, welcome. Dr. Shini Somara: 00:51 So Allan, let’s get straight into it. Did you always want to become a CIO? Allan Cockriel: 00:55 Did I always want to be a CIO? I always wanted to find places where I could add value, solve big problems, and help businesses unlock the best outcomes for their customers. I found that the intersection between technology, finance, people, and operations was a natural home for me. So it was only a matter of time until I got the opportunity to become a CIO, and it’s been one of the most rewarding roles in my career so far. Dr. Shini Somara: 01:14 And has the role changed? Allan Cockriel: 01:16 I’d say it’s changed significantly. When I was first starting out, it was key to be a technologist. Today, the CIO still needs to be a technologist, but also a business partner, a security expert, and ultimately someone who helps drive the business forward. Dr. Shini Somara: 01:29 Amit, has that been your experience? Amit Thawani: 01:32 Yes, I always wanted to become a CIO. That was a dream for a long time. I started my career with a start-up in India, building banking products. That gave me a strong foundation, both to enter the financial industry and to understand what it takes from an end-to-end perspective to become a CIO. The role has completely changed in the last 25 years. Traditionally, CIOs came from a project management or operations background. Fast forward to today, technology is shaping the business, helping it grow, and driving innovation. To be a commercially aware CIO, you need to understand not only total cost of ownership as a technologist, but also the P&L side. You need to help the business achieve its top-line ambitions while optimising the bottom line. The role has become far more holistic, and it’s a lot more fun, to be honest. Dr. Shini Somara: 02:27 Allan, has that been your experience? It’s not just about technology, but also about strategy. Allan Cockriel: 02:33 Absolutely. The technical aspects are the entry ticket. You need to be great at identifying the right platforms and technologies to build scalable, secure, and competitive systems. But the real opportunity now is to take that technical expertise and develop great products that deliver real value. Dr. Shini Somara: 02:52 And how do you create collaboration at the C-suite level, getting technology and business strategy aligned? Allan Cockriel: 03:02 It’s built on trust. The CIO, CTO, or CDO needs to be seen as a credible partner. Not just someone who leads a large team, but someone who can sit at the table and contribute strategically. That means understanding what’s coming next, but also ensuring the operation runs securely and efficiently. If you can speak the language of the business and demonstrate return on investment, you earn your seat at the table. Dr. Shini Somara: 03:40 Amit, how do you build that trust at Lloyds? Amit Thawani: 03:42 At Lloyds, this is part of our operating model. We have platform-based structures that are co-owned by business and technology. We share KPIs and OKRs. Technologists are responsible for P&L outcomes, while business leaders are responsible for ensuring technology stays fit for purpose. It’s no longer about technologists taking orders. It’s about bringing ideas to the table, exploring opportunities together, and identifying use cases that create value. Dr. Shini Somara: 04:27 What approaches have you found most effective in fostering collaboration? Allan Cockriel: 04:35 It comes down to storytelling. Helping the business understand how IT can unlock value. IT can often sit in the background, keeping systems running. But leaders need to translate that technical understanding into opportunities that drive value across the business. Amit Thawani: 05:22 In my opinion, the biggest enemy of collaboration is bureaucracy. I recently came across the term BMI – Bureaucracy Mass Index. The goal is to reduce the BMI of the organisation. You do that through shared goals, shared ownership, and a single definition of success. It can’t be separate business success and tech success. It has to be one. Dr. Shini Somara: 06:08 Looking back, did you always know this was the path you were working towards? Allan Cockriel: 06:15 It’s definitely not a straight line. There are ups and downs, lateral moves, and difficult assignments. For me, it was about stepping into challenges, taking on tough roles, and learning from mentors. Over time, you develop both the technical and leadership skills needed. Dr. Shini Somara: 07:14 Amit, what experiences were pivotal for your development? Amit Thawani: 07:21 Early in my career, my mentor asked me what I wanted to do long-term. I said I wanted to become like him, a CIO. He explained that it’s not a straight path. You need a broad skill set: engineering, infrastructure, security, leadership, and people management. I realised I had gaps, and over time, through learning and mentoring, I worked to build those skills. It takes patience and practice. Allan Cockriel: 08:36 And there isn’t one path. You can come through technical roles or business functions. What matters is adaptability, continuous learning, and curiosity. Dr. Shini Somara: 09:15 Were there any barriers you faced? Allan Cockriel: 09:23 Not barriers, but challenges. Sometimes technologists get pigeonholed as just “IT support”. You have to prove value beyond that. That’s why I focus on “brilliant basics”. If the fundamentals don’t work, it’s hard to drive transformation. Amit Thawani: 10:09 You can become a CIO, but staying a CIO is the bigger challenge. You have to continuously deliver innovation, productivity, and business value. For me, one challenge was overcoming introversion and building confidence in leadership and communication. Dr. Shini Somara: 10:48 How do you balance innovation with operational continuity? Allan Cockriel: 11:05 You have to operate in both the present and the future. I often apply a 70-20-10 approach: 70% on core operations, 20% on transformation, and 10% on innovation. Amit Thawani: 11:59 It’s dynamic. Some days are 70-30, others 30-70. It depends on priorities. Allan Cockriel: 12:50 And if you play it too safe, you risk becoming irrelevant. You must always create space for innovation. Dr. Shini Somara: 13:12 What lessons have you learned from experience? Allan Cockriel: 13:25 Culture is everything. Without the right people, talent, and mindset, even the best strategy won’t work. Dr. Shini Somara: 13:59 How do you bounce back from decisions that don’t work? Allan Cockriel: 14:03 There’s a Churchill quote: success is moving from failure to failure without losing momentum. The key is making informed decisions, learning quickly, and having the discipline to pivot when needed. Dr. Shini Somara: 14:44 What advice would you give aspiring CIOs? Allan Cockriel: 14:59 Continuous learning is critical. Technology moves too fast to rely on past knowledge. Use available resources, stay curious, and build expertise. Dr. Shini Somara: 16:03 Amit, how important are soft skills? Amit Thawani: 16:09 Extremely important. As a CIO, you’re a people leader. Communication, trust, and clarity are essential to aligning teams and delivering strategy. Dr. Shini Somara: 17:27 Allan, how do you define soft skills? Allan Cockriel: 17:30 They’re about trust, communication, collaboration, and leadership. It’s a people game at the end of the day. Dr. Shini Somara: 18:25 Are you building future CIOs? Allan Cockriel: 18:34 You should always work to replace yourself. Build a pipeline of talent so the organisation continues to succeed beyond you. Dr. Shini Somara: 19:29 Amit, what do you look for in future CIOs? Amit Thawani: 20:37 Beyond technical skills, I look for authenticity, curiosity, willingness to learn, and problem-solving ability. Allan Cockriel: 21:41 I agree. Skills can be taught, but passion, curiosity, and mindset are what really matter. Dr. Shini Somara: 23:16 What are your final career toolkit contributions? Allan Cockriel: 23:24 Continuous learning, staying humble but driven, and building strong relationships. Amit Thawani: 24:10 Reflect, reassess, and seek feedback. Stay focused and keep learning. Dr. Shini Somara: 24:50 It’s clear that the role of CIO is interdisciplinary, requiring trust, influence, adaptability, and creativity. Thank you both for sharing your experiences and insights.