The Wellness Rebel Podcast

Is Mold Triggering Your Anxiety & Depression? | A Holistic Psychiatrist's Guide To Mold Toxicity Recovery Ep. 21

• Annika Taylor • Season 2 • Episode 21

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Are you experiencing anxiety, racing pulse, brain fog, dizziness, low moods or even feeling some weird 'out of body' symptoms? Environmental mold toxins might be the problem! In this episode, Dr. Courtney Snyder shares her expertise on mold toxicity and the most common brain and mental symptoms it can cause. You'll learn if mold could be a factor in your own health, and practical strategies to guide your mold recovery journey, one step at a time. 

We cover everything you need to know about mold and your mood, including:

  • Sources of mold exposure in the environment
  • Testing methods for mold in the home and body
  • Symptoms of mold toxicity including mental health issues
  • Treatment options including binders and antifungals
  • Environmental remediation and prevention tips


Helpful links we mention in the episode:



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IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:
 This podcast episode is for educational and informational purposes only and solely as a self-help tool for your own use. I am not providing medical, psychological, or nutrition therapy advice. 

You should not use this information to diagnose or treat any health problems or illnesses without consulting your own medical practitioner. 

Always seek the advice of your own medical practitioner and/or mental health provider about your specific health situation. For my full Disclaimer, please go to https://www.nourishedbynature.co/disclaimer



Intro And Why Mold Matters

SPEAKER_02

Welcome back to the podcast. Today is a really special episode. We have Dr. Courtney Snyder on, who is a holistic, functional, and environmental psychiatrist. She brings a completely different perspective to modern mental health challenges. And she does that by bridging the gap between typical psychiatry and functional medicine. She's looking through the lens of nutrient deficiencies and environmental toxins and mold and gut issues and all the things that come together to create these mental health symptoms, these brain symptoms, anxiety, depression, fatigue, brain fog, OCD. I'm really passionate about bringing this forward because I've had friends, I've had family, I have clients who have experienced very profound mental health issues after being exposed to mold. At the end of the episode, we talk about the current top best testing for mold for your home, the best testing for mold in the body. So this episode is chalk block full of so much information, but I will have a lot of the links that we talk about in the show notes. I even have my amino acid guide there that you can download because as we're healing through mold, there can be a lot of anxiety and depression and mental symptoms that come up. This is going to be such a fun episode. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you so, so much for joining us today, Dr. Courtney. Um we have a really interesting topic today, which is mold, mold illness, mold toxicity. And I'm excited to hear your perspective on really the symptoms, the brain symptoms, the mental health symptoms of mold exposure. Um so thank you, thank you, and welcome, welcome back.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. Appreciate it. Glad

Mold Allergy Toxicity And Colonization

SPEAKER_01

to be here.

SPEAKER_02

So let's get started with can you kind of describe to us what is mold in the home and in our environment?

SPEAKER_01

So the way I think about it in terms of like mold-related illness, you know, is the three parts being people can have mold allergy, which most people are familiar with, but then there can be mold toxicity and mold colonization, which people are less familiar with. So mold allergy can be just from outdoor molds, but when we talk about mold toxicity, that's when the toxins are in the body. And it appears that about 25% of people can't mount an immune response. And so they can have those mold toxins persist, and that can create a number of symptoms, which I'm sure we'll we'll get to. And separately, people can have mold colonization where the mold spores appear to take hold in the sinuses and even see the GI tract. And so even if somebody is out of a mold exposure, they could potentially still have a source of toxicity within them. So within a household, certain family members could be getting ill and other people could be fine. There is a belief, though, that if people get enough exposure that anyone could become toxic, you know, because there's degrees of how much people would get.

SPEAKER_02

That's a really good point. Okay, fantastic. I'm just personally curious what got you into treating mold illness? And I mean, I imagine there's a story behind this because um, you know, not everybody really fully understands how mold illness works. And until it's happened to you and you've experienced the symptoms, it can kind of sound like, oh, you know, what's the big deal with mold? Why do we even need to worry about that? So could you maybe share your personal experience with mold illness?

SPEAKER_01

I think

How Mold Changed Her Health

SPEAKER_01

like many people, you know, I was on a journey trying to find answers to health problems that eventually led to discovering mold toxicity, but after many years. So I was diagnosed uh 2016, 2017, so you know, close to 10 years ago. And it wasn't on the forefront yet in functional medicine. And I was dealing with symptoms of chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, a lot of unusual, like low-grade neurologic type symptoms that were kind of triggering because didn't know where that was coming from. And then at the same time, my daughter was dealing with health issues, and she was three and started to regress into like what looked like a developmental disorder. And so I was on those quests to find answers and actually stopped practicing um to be home with her, but also to figure out what was going on with us. And I wasn't, you know, physically well and started with the microbiome, like a lot of people do, you know, and then a few learned about the Walsh Research Institute and that piece and integrated some of that. But I still had symptoms, like many people with chronic complex illness, and wasn't finding my answers until mold toxicity kind of came across my radar and did the visual contrast test, which we can talk about. I don't do that in my practice necessarily, but that was my first step, and then did testing, had someone come out to my home, found that we had mold toxicity and and went from there. And so that was a big shift in our health journey with discovering that and addressing it.

SPEAKER_02

When you found out that you had mold in your home, did you feel, did you feel a sense of relief and like, oh, we figured out a big piece to our problems, our symptoms, or did it feel like, oh my gosh, now I'm I feel scared to live in my home? I'm just curious, kind of like what what was coming up for you when you found out that there was mold.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so that's such a good question. Because my reaction at the time, um, I actually subsequently ended up getting being in another environment later and got exposure again. And how I thought about it and um went about even addressing things environmentally. Do you know what I mean? Was it more relaxed? You know, it's just absolutely. I mean, not that I didn't do what I needed to do, but in the beginning, um there was a sense of urgency after all this time, finally finding the answers, and also which we can talk about being kind of limbic, do you know, as far as um having high anxiety being triggered by mold toxicity. Um and some of it too, it's that borderline between like what's instinct, but also I mean, because I felt like if something bad happened as a result of staying in it longer for myself or my daughter, that I didn't want to, do you know what I mean? I didn't want to have regret not addressing it wholeheartedly. So do you know that's why I say how much of that is limbic and how much of it is, okay, this is a serious issue, we've had serious problems, and we need to do something about it. And like many, you know, with spouses, it can be a challenge. Um getting on the same page as to what so I was fortunate that my husband at the time um was agreeable because I was quite, you know, like I'm not staying in his house. Um, and in our case, we were able to get some insurance coverage and we were able to be in an extended stay um, you know, hotel kind of situation. For a lot of families, that's a big obstacle if their partner or their spouse isn't on the same page. It's why a lot of people don't end up getting out of mold. And I don't think it can be overstated how many people, but you know, even people pursue treatment, how that becomes an obstacle, whether it's brought up or not. Um, but I I was very lucky in that regard. And um it took, you know, my own education, my own sharing of information, and um our as a family are getting informed from that consultant consultant. But it I just mention it because it's not something people would think about, but it comes up pretty regularly because even now there's still a lot of people that don't sort of buy into that this is real.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right, which is why I think it's so important to talk about. And I absolutely have had um clients who they had very supportive partners. And that was really the key because you're you are doing this, you know. If you're living with a family, you are doing this together. And so to, you know, take all the steps that we're gonna talk about at the end of the episode. Um, and sometimes it's all of them, sometimes it's some of them, but it's really wonderful to have that.

SPEAKER_01

Um they're affected, they're they're gonna be affected by the treatment because part of the treatment is addressing the environment.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely, absolutely.

Where Mold Exposure Usually Comes From

SPEAKER_02

Um, so since we've been talking about mold, I think it'd be good to kind of rewind and let's go back to what are um, I mean, we mentioned it, but what are some common sources of mold exposure? Like, would it only be from the home, from the shower, like food? Could you walk us through maybe where mold is even getting into our bodies or into our environment?

SPEAKER_01

So for the most part, when people are becoming toxic, it appears that it's environmental. I mean, someone would have to be eating a lot of a toxic, a lot of a moldy food on a regular basis to be acquiring that. So when we do testing, you know, the belief is that most of it seems to be from environments and within people's homes, within their workspaces, it could be within a car. I've seen children with developmental issues who had wet their bed and they were sleeping on a moldy mattress every night, and that was causing their um developmental problems. So, you know, and within a house, it could be um a leak under the sink, it could be problems around windows, it could be a leak in the roof, it could be flashing around a chimney, a damp basement. You know, there's endless ways. And they used to say 50% of homes and buildings, then it was 75%, 80%, and now some of the consultants will say it's just to a degree in every building, you know. That's probably edible. Um, but there's just a lot of potential, even just high humidity. So I'm in Kentucky, and when I was in Florida, you know, without dehumidifiers running, the humidity would be high enough for all of the roads.

SPEAKER_02

That's right. Okay. Yeah, that's an important thing to talk about. Maybe we can talk a little bit about ideal humidity in the home at the end.

SPEAKER_01

Sure.

SPEAKER_02

But yeah, yeah. Okay. That's interesting because a lot of times we think about um, I know that coffee, unless it's tested for mycotoxins, that can have a lot of mold in it too. Um, I kind of like that you're saying when we're doing testing, the high amounts of mold that's causing issues is generally speaking going to be in the environment just because there's so many mold spores continuously getting into the body. Um, I'm not saying that m mold and coffee isn't an issue, but I I think that's an important thing to bring up is the environment is the biggest probably exposure.

SPEAKER_01

And it can be that if someone's dealing with mold toxicity, that they're gonna be more reactive to many mold toxins within food. So when we give dietary recommendations, there's things that don't feed mold, which we can talk about, but also things that have trace amounts of mold we do recommend people avoid. One to not add to to the mix, but also to not be triggering their immune system and causing symptoms that way.

SPEAKER_02

Precisely. Okay, that's really helpful to understand.

Physical Symptoms That Point To Mold

SPEAKER_02

Um, so let's get into what are some of the top physical symptoms. Let's just dive into this and take our time, kind of explain to our listeners what are maybe some of the first, like most common symptoms, and then we can dive into more of the brain and mental health symptoms. So maybe just start us off with yeah, what are some some of the first things that someone might tell you that would make you suspect mold?

SPEAKER_01

So there's the common, I mean, some of these will cross over into other areas, but like fatigue and brain fog are extremely common. So even though they fall on the brain health down, um, and that was the case for me, those were big symptoms. But other or physical symptoms would be sinus issues, especially if there's colonization. There's a lot of people that have mold toxicity have mast cell activation, and so that creates an exaggerated immune response. And mast cell activation has a whole slew of physical symptoms associated with it. It involves the skin, the respiratory tract, the GI tract, even the bladder. I mean, mast cells are everywhere, but they're especially in the parts of the body that kind of interface with the outside world. You know, even our GI tract does. So there's a lot of overlap, but things that are more sort of specific to mold could be sinus infections, could be asthma. And young children, it could be ear infections. It doesn't have to be, but they might have croup and ear infections that could point to that. Oh, did you say croup? Just again, part of that exaggerated immune reactivity of the rest.

SPEAKER_02

That is so fascinating because my two little brothers were born at home in a home that I know for a fact there was like what what I thought it was was like black um mildew on their window. But now that I'm thinking back, it was probably like black mold. And they were the two of the family. And I have six siblings that from a very, very young age, like maybe one year old, they started getting croup every single time that they would get sick. And one had asthma. And I always thought in the back of my head, I wondered if that set them up to, you know, have that histamine immune response. So it's interesting that you said croup.

SPEAKER_01

And we do, you know, for anyone, myself included, you know, once you know you have mold toxicity, you start to look back and think, oh, when did this actually, do you know, when did it actually start? Was it a tipping point when I started to really get sick? But when I was a child, we had a there was a it was Hurricane Agnes and our house was flooded along with everyone else where we lived. And do you know what I mean? It was kind of a dress, but we moved back into the home and you know, there's only so much to be done. You can imagine how many people are affected.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um so looking back, if someone's susceptible, they were likely always susceptible. And so they can look back at potential exposures. And sometimes we don't know. You know, I mean we just know what's tested for in that time. So other I mean, there's some interesting neurologic symptoms that can point to that, like an electrical type feeling, and some of these too overlap with like EMF sensitivity, and a lot of people with EMF sensitivity have mold, or it could be um a jolting, almost electric feeling in the body, like a shock, not like a little historical shock, but like a big jolt. Um, numbness and tingling. There can be other again, some of these, there's likely a mast cell component, but there can be racing heart, so uh numbness and tingling, headaches, um, light sensitivity, um sensitivity to EMF, as I mentioned, but with mast cell activation, people can have a whole range of sensitivities. We see a lot of um temperature dysregulation issue, you know, feeling cold when it's not cold. There can be shortness of breath, air hunger, like a need to take a deep breath even when there's not, you know, just uh so it sounds like as you're saying this, um it it does it, it's tricky because it sounds like you could be describing Lyme.

SPEAKER_02

You could just be describing EMF sensitivity, you could be describing so many things. And that's where I think this is tricky. Is it like it's sneaky because it's it's very similar to so many other things that can trigger the immune system.

SPEAKER_01

Right, right. And with Lyme, you know, you might see migrating joint pain with mold. You can have muscle pain and aches and wake with morning stiffness. A lot of people have cramping in their feet. Um, but yes, there's a lot of overlap. And many of us would argue if it's possible to get at the mold as soon as possible, because that'll dysregulate the immune system and make you more vulnerable to things like Lyme, Candida, SIVO. Do you know what I mean? Lyme co-infections, like it'll even pans pandas. Like if it's not gotten to, it makes addressing all those other things much more difficult.

SPEAKER_02

Right. So it kind of opens the door to all of those because it suppresses the immune system. And so then, therefore, all of these things can kind of come in.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. It does both. It both, and that's why I say dysregulates, because it makes people sort of more susceptible to other things, but at the same time, there can be this exaggerated immune response. So it's like both ends of the spectrum at the same time.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, okay, very interesting.

Mental Health Symptoms From Mold

SPEAKER_02

So someone might be having a lot of brain fog, a lot of fatigue. Um, and then let's kind of go into what are the brain symptoms? What are the mental health issues? Because this is what I feel that I'm most excited about. Um having clients, having family members, having friends who have had very overwhelming mental health issues that were linked directly to mold. Um, I had someone I knew who actually had symptoms of psychosis. I had someone who had like um just randomly as an adult, suddenly depression, really bad depression, and then come to find out that this person had a lot of mold and that that was really upsetting their neurotransmitters. So I would love to dive into how does mold, when it is affecting us, how does that manifest maybe mentally?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so as you're kind of pointing to, it can, I mean, I don't know what psychiatric can do symptom it can't cause. So but brain fog and fatigue are really common. Anxiety is very common. And not everyone becomes psychotic, but people can have psychosis, people can have mood swings, and um, it could be a big player in bipolar disorder. But I see it as something that's aligning with someone's genetic vulnerabilities and even nutrient imbalances that affect neurotransmitter functioning. So I mean in children it can look like ADHD, it can look like anxiety, um, just as in adults. For some people it can be activating, and for some people it can be, you know, really flattening that reading comprehension and retaining information is very common. Like it's seems sort of subtle, but a lot of people will say they used to read and they don't read anymore because they can't remember when they've read. Um will see cognitive issues in terms of early cognitive decline, and it is a player in dementia. Most people I see that have severe mental health conditions, whether it's schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, OCD, you know, severe OCD, have mold toxicity at play. That doesn't mean everyone, but most. And it doesn't mean it's the only thing. It's aligning with other factors. And just as it can raise a vulnerability to those different microbial issues that we talked about, it can also make Pyrols go up, which then causes a depletion and zinc and B6. It can cause the um copper zinc imbalances, both of these by oxidative stress, it can affect methylation secondarily by just that oxidative stress. And then those cause neurotransmitter problems. Someone might have a susceptibility copper zinc imbalances, and then they develop mold toxicity and it amplifies those types of symptoms for them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's what I've seen, honestly. Um, for the friend that I'm thinking about, they did have copper imbalance. There was a methylation issue, and then this person was living in mold without knowing it because when we helped them moved out, it was uh behind the washing machine. I about cried because I was like, oh, now I understand. And this was years ago, maybe seven, eight, nine years ago. But like when we moved their washing machine, there was just black mold because there had been water damage, and this person had been suffering so much with I would say when they lived at this house, it was OCD was really impacted, really bad, um, debilitating at this point. And then there were some like feelings of derealization and kind of out of body, which we can see with candida and fungus and yeast, because correct me if I'm wrong, I think it has a lot to do with the um ammonia that's being produced and that can create the neuroinflammation. I know there's a lot that goes at play with the histamine too. Um so anyway, it was just the perfect storm for this sweet person and getting them out of that was really important. But that was for me um the first thing that really made me most interested in mold and understanding it was this whole experience with this friend and seeing how how badly it impacted their mental health.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's it can be quite dramatic. I didn't mention too that it can be a big player in autoimmune conditions.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I'm hands and pandas, but for someone else it could be MS. But the whole range of you know, autoimmune conditions. And you mentioned derealization, derealization and depersonalization, both of those we see with mold, and Bartonella is another thing that can cause that. But this sort of detached feeling that people have, like they're kind of watching their life or things don't feel real, that makes me think, oh.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so yeah, so high anxiety, high panic, and a lot of that is coming from yeah, just the mycotoxins from the mold spores, right? And then a lot of neuroinflammation can be causing that brain fog and that fatigue. Um, and not again, not to to bring this whole podcast is not to bring fear into the equation. It's really to empower people because fear is not the frequency of healing. And I don't want people to go away from this podcast and be like, oh my gosh, now I'm scared of every corner of my house might have molded in. No, no, no, no, no, no. But we are bringing to your attention because maybe, you know, listeners have never made the connection between this brain, the brain symptoms.

SPEAKER_01

I think of it as like an internal threat in the body. So systems that get activated are the immune system, the limbic system, and that's what has us in a vigilant state looking for our answers. And some people, those answers land on OCD. Do you know what I mean? If I do this around cleanliness, which sort of paradoxically, you know, it kind of makes sense, even though they don't know they have mold toxicity, but the body has a sense something's not right, and and they're trying to they're trying to make things right, and that comes out in different ways for people. But that's what I would say is kind of limbic when people are in a vigilant state. It could be having health anxiety, um, OCD, or um, you know, just not right and not really knowing why, and so putting that somewhere. And then the third system would be the autonomic nervous system. And that can be in that fight or flight mode or sh or shutdown instead of the rest and digest. So those systems activated the neurotransmitter and nutrient imbalances that we talked about, those can be affected aside from just other microbial issues, all of which can contribute to those brain symptoms.

SPEAKER_02

Gotcha. Okay. So

Home Testing That Actually Helps

SPEAKER_02

we talked about what mold is, what mold toxicity is. Can we talk a little bit about maybe maybe we should get into let's talk about first steps. If you're like, I'm listening to this episode, gosh, I've got all these symptoms. I'm really curious. Like, where could someone maybe take the first baby step to start identifying if mold is in their environment? And then we can kind of talk about mold in the body.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so there is ways to test your environment. And oftentimes many people are getting tested for themselves first. Do you know what I mean? Before then trying to hunt it down in their environment, unless if you like see it, or if you know there's water damage, like where there's water damage, there will be mold. Right. So if you see it, a lot of testing may not be necessary as much as how can it be properly contained and removed, not just removed and have it, you know, unleashed throughout the house. Um, but if people don't know if they have an issue in their home, um test and they want to do testing, um, there's the ERMI test, which is what I would use, and I happen to use micrometrics, and that will give you basically water damage type spores in one column, you know, counts, and on the other column outdoor spores that are coming in, and then they'll do a calculation based on those numbers of what the likelihood is that there's water damage. And okay, and that's just taking a Swiffer cloth that they send you, and you take dust samples basically.

SPEAKER_02

It's a pretty easy test to do from yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And in fact, a lot of if you don't know and you have a mold inspector come in, the likelihood, unless it's a good mold inspector, but many will just come in and do air sampling, which by itself is not terribly reliable. And I've met many people and myself personally who have been in homes with negative air sampling when there was a mold issue. So it's helpful in combination with surface testing. But a starting place would be people doing their own ERMing.

SPEAKER_02

That's what I think is really, really important to take away from today's episode is there's all kinds of testing out there, but it's really important to make sure you do the ERMI test. I believe that the dust test is an ERMI test as well, but you're saying the one that you like is the Mycometric. So I can link that in the description as well.

SPEAKER_01

That's I think there's other companies that do it. That's the one I've always used. That's just the one that you use. Yeah. So it's called dust samples. And then there's uh petri dishes that can be put in different rooms. And I use immunolytics for that. It doesn't pick up on uh there's a couple of important uh molds that it doesn't pick up on. Okay, but sometimes it can be helpful in honing in on where the do you know what I mean? The location which room?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, absolutely. So immunolytics. Yeah, I've heard that's a good one. Okay. All right, so that's for the environment. And then I think we should get into testing for ourselves because that's where I have absolutely made mistakes with my clients, where I suspected that they had mold. In fact, I would do energy testing and muscle testing, and mold would keep coming up as this is an issue for this person, a really big issue. So then I ran, this was a few years ago, I ran the, I want to say it was Mosaic Labs. The mold test is not great because it came back as completely, there's no mold, no issue. So then I, getting that false negative, was like, okay, I guess mold's not the issue, continued on for a few years, and this person had continuous mold exposure in the home. But I

Body Testing Plus Ideal Humidity

SPEAKER_02

think that that can really mislead people for years and not get treatment properly if we do the wrong type of testing. So maybe explain to us which tests you like for the body.

SPEAKER_01

So I happen to use the real time, and I don't have any affiliate whatever. You know, I don't think that's just what I use. And um it will give five toxin families and give ranges, but it's worth noting it is possible, it's rare, to have mold toxicity and not have something show on the test. It's really not mobilizing toxins well. Um, we try to do a provocation where we have people either do sauna the night before, if possible, or glutathione for the week leading up to it to kind of push things a little bit. But some people can't tolerate, you know, any pushing. Um and we don't want anyone necessarily to have worsening of symptoms, but it is to not have something show, but it's rare. For those individuals who aren't detoxifying, who have the timeline and everything that really points to this is mold, that when we start presumptively treating that, then when we retest, they're the toxins, you know, like it shows up ourselves. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Gotcha. Okay, great. So ERMI test to test for the home, for mold in the home or the environment. And then we like the real-time test for those mycotoxins that can show up in the body, and that's a urine test, correct? A home urine test.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Easy to do. Um urine tests are easy to do at home. You just take the sample and send it off. So, real time, and I will link to that in the show notes so that people have it because I just think it's that important to have access to the right testing. Okay, so that's testing. And then I know you mentioned the moisture and humidif humidity in the environment. So, what's the ideal humidity to prevent mold from actually growing in the home?

SPEAKER_01

So I would say low 50s or below. So on Amazon, you can get a little hygrometer for under $10 to measure the humidity.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, easy. Great. Okay. Um, and so the suggestion there would that be if if your home is is much more humid, you could, in theory, get a dehumidifier for the bedroom or something like that, or for the the office.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, really for I mean in your home, you want the humidity because you really want it low anywhere mold growth. So there's a lot of and then and then there can be whole system dehumidification where you don't have to even mess with dehumidifiers.

SPEAKER_02

So we talked about identifying molds in the home and the body, the best lab test, which I think is so important, humidity. And now maybe let's walk people through just simple treatment options, maybe an example or examples of what you might do with a patient who had had mold, mold exposure, mold ill illness.

SPEAKER_01

So

Remediation Detox Steps And Food Triggers

SPEAKER_01

we have the result and it shows that they have mold toxicity. And maybe they've tested, or maybe they know of a water damage source. And the direction just that I try to give people on that is ideally if they can have a consultant give a remediation plan to a remediation company, as opposed to having those be one person. Do you know? So there's not a conflict of interest, or they don't know where this problem is and have an old inspector come in. Um, it's ideal if those can be separate where the consultant is giving a remediation plan, which should include barriers so that I've met with people who, when they did the remediation, they do you know what I mean, opened up a wall and everyone got a big hit with more exposure.

SPEAKER_02

Like you could have someone that just does this um quote unquote mold remediation, but they come in and do it all wrong and they actually could make a bigger problem because they're just spreading the spores everywhere. Is that is that kind of what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_01

Right, right. And so you can have, you know, you can have more than one company come in and say what they would do. But if you have a consultant saying, This is what I'm recommending, you can pick your remediation company after they do the work, I'll retest. And if there's still, do you know what I mean? If things aren't clean, then they have to keep going until things are at their cost, not at your cost. Do you know? Okay, that's okay. Oh, of course.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, everyone's in a different situation. Okay. Is there, I mean, this is just a question I have just off the top of my head. Is there a way to kind of vet home like mold remediation companies? Do you know what I mean? Like, is there maybe a website that you trust or resources you trust that could to vet these people?

SPEAKER_01

That's my that's my question. I mean, in terms of um not remediation companies, there are the ICI um I sea, um it's an environmental medical group, they have a list of inspectors on there. It's not a very long list, but these are environmental consultants that have an association with this organization. Perfect. So the first steps based on their mold test would be working in binders one at a time based on what is the high the highest toxin. Um and then for most people they have more than one toxin present in a toxic range, it's more likely to be three, even is fairly common. And then once on binders, and I tend to see a lot of sensitive patients, so I would have them I have anyone start low and slow. Some people think they're supposed to push through something, and it's really about meeting the body where it's at and have it be pretty seamless. If things are getting worse, that means holding it and letting things resolve and backing up. But it sneaks people, just the mobilization of the toxins can worse. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Um starting with binders like bentonite clay, perhaps, activated charcoal, perhaps, chlorella, things like that come to mind for binding.

SPEAKER_01

Right, based on so there's certain binders that bind certain toxins, preferably. So that can be based on the test. And then there's one that's I mean, okra toxin tends to bind particularly well to cholesterolamine, which is a prescription, but otherwise most of them are over the counter. And then once in binders, um, if someone's really feeling great and it's having a strong response, that could suggest that they're not colonized. And then it could be retesting and seeing where things are at, assuming they're not living in mold. Um, you know, and then if things are really clearing, they may not need to go on to antifungals. Okay. People may be having some benefit, but maybe they've had mold exposure for such a long time and they've seemed to develop colonization. Um, then it might be starting with treating candida, or it might be in the gut, or it might be starting with treating mold in the sinuses using nasal antifungals. And then there's different ones depending on someone's level of sensitivity. And then some people benefit from systemic antifungals for yeast and for mold. Many people have yeast that have mold hot sissy.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it just goes hand in hand, doesn't it? I mean, it's yeah, if the body's an environment for yeast, is a type of fungus, so it makes sense that mold would be able to hold on as well. So, what are some things in diet that we could avoid? And we'll just kind of close on close on that. Things in the diet that we should maybe be avoiding if if we've got mold or adding in to benefit.

SPEAKER_01

So the biggest, especially when it comes to colonization, which most I would say most adults seem to be, unless it's a real short, discrete, do you know what I mean? They're sometimes started right with the exposure. Um, and because candida is so common, carbs are the really the biggest issue. So if someone's getting sugar or a lot of carbs, that can hold them back. So they could be feeding the colonization that can be making more toxins, even if their environment's perfect, they could be still becoming toxic because they're feeding colonization. So that's you know, it's akin to a candida type diet. Um there's then foods that are higher in trace amounts of

Where To Find Dr Snyder

SPEAKER_01

mold, things like corn, peanuts, um, aged fruit, aged meats, um even just nuts and seeds that aren't. Do you know what I mean? Unless they haven't been shelled and you shell them yourself. Coffee, as you mentioned. Um and then because so many people react to histamine, not everybody, but sometimes the higher histamine foods can be problematic. And there's a lot of overlap with high histamine foods and foods that have trace mold, like anything aged.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Um extremely challenging for people, just as with Candida, to, you know, avoid sugar and limit carbs. Oh, because you're craving it. Because you're craving it.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And, you know, people vary, like some people can have, you know, do a treat once a week and it doesn't throw them off. And then other people, do you know what I mean? They feel horrible and they don't want to do that. So there's in that way, there's not, do you know what I mean? These hard and fast, everyone has to do the same thing. Um, but generally what holds people back is the shooter and carbs. So then once once they start cutting that back, those microbes aren't communicating to be fed. So it does cost. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

It absolutely does. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, that's really encouraging. Um, that's wonderful. So I feel like we could talk for literally another two hours on this. We did a really good summary of, you know, the symptoms and how to address this and solutions. Um, and I just want to thank you so much for taking the time to, you know, walk us through this. Um, because I do feel like it's really important not, again, not to be scared of things because that's not how life works. Like there's exposures all the time. It's really about strengthening the immune system, allowing our immune system to be healthy and strong and just in being empowered with this, with this knowledge and with this wisdom. Um, because I really believe that's the first step. And so would you mind maybe just in closing, where can people find you? Walk us through how can people reach you? Yeah, and if they wanted to do a consult with you, perhaps. What is your website? Sure, it's CourtneySnydermd.com. Perfect. And that's gonna go in the show notes. Also, you guys, um, Dr. Courtney has some really good blogs on mold. And actually, she has one that is all about what we talked about today. It's called How Mold Toxicity Impacts the Brain. There's a full article. She has a substack. Um, she's a wealth of information, and so you guys go check out her website. I just want to say thank you so much, Dr. Courtney.

SPEAKER_01

Delight, and I'm glad you're getting this information out there. So I guess it's impacting a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much, and we'll talk to you next time.

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