Adventure Travel with Sara Kearns - Travels with Sara

Area/Topic
Africa, Safaris

Sara Kearns
Owner
Travels with Sara

I am a dedicated passionate seller of Africa.  My highly regarded private safaris are customized, tailored to the client.  I travel with them to give the very best safari experience.  Always looking for new adventures in the splendor of Africa.  I have also published a very successful guide book "Ultimate Sourcebook East Africa" and a memoir about me and my life.

https://sarassignaturesafaris.com/

summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Sara Kearns, a seasoned travel expert and owner of Travels with Sara. They discuss Sara's journey into the world of travel, her early influences, and her extensive experiences in Africa. The conversation delves into the importance of the journey over the destination, the misconceptions surrounding travel in Africa, and the joy of sharing travel experiences with family and friends. Sara shares insights on customizing travel experiences for clients and addresses common safety concerns about traveling in Africa. The episode is filled with personal anecdotes, travel tips, and a deep appreciation for the beauty of exploration.

takeaways

• Travel is about the journey, not just the destination.
• Early influences shape our passions and careers.
• Personal experiences in travel lead to growth and understanding.
• Africa offers diverse travel experiences and adventures.
• Safety concerns about Africa are often based on misconceptions.
• Traveling with family can create lasting memories.
• Customizing travel experiences enhances enjoyment and connection.
• The importance of connecting with locals while traveling.
• Traveling can be a transformative experience for individuals.
• Adventure travel can be tailored to individual preferences.

Learn more about Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Marketing and join our private community to get episode updates, special access to our guests, and exclusive adventure travel offers on our website.

Transcript

Jason Elkins (00:01.41)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. We have a true legend with us, a legend of African safaris and African stuff. And I'm just so happy to have her here. We've got Sara Kearns. She's the owner of Travels with Sara and Sara, so happy to have you here. This is a real treat for me. Thank you.

Sara Kearns (00:23.955)
Well, it's a treat for me too, so let's both enjoy!

Jason Elkins (00:27.786)
We will, I guarantee. And I had mentioned to you at one point, maybe I've never actually shared this with the listeners, but when we first came on before I hit the record button, I was explaining to you why I don't do a whole lot of research before the interview. And I wasn't sure if I was being lazy or if it was just because I like the spontaneity of it. And I do like the spontaneity of it. And I always feel like these conversations, the way I envision them,

is that you and I are just sitting at a table at some safari camp somewhere. We just met and you say, I've got travels with Sara. do African safari stuff. The questions that I would ask you are going to be the same questions we're going to discuss today. Those questions I know you've heard a hundred times or a thousand times. know, Sara, how did you get into this? What were you doing before this? Those types of questions. It's not always about your favorite destinations. This and that it's not about well.

Do I need to get yellow fever shots if I go here or there or whatever? It's more about you. So that's what we're gonna do today. If that's okay, how does that sound? All right.

Sara Kearns (01:32.171)
That's perfect and I think that will be a very good introduction to what I do, how long I've been in it. And so I am and I must have retired five times, mean, I've put a lot down. And this last event started in 2009, having just retired from an amazing job.

Jason Elkins (01:39.244)
Yeah, and who you are.

Jason Elkins (01:46.433)
You

Jason Elkins (01:56.898)
Well, I want to I don't want to interrupt you, but I want to go back a little further because usually I find that people are doing this stuff had something influenced them early on in their life. That kind. Yeah. So I don't know how far back we need to go. Maybe. What's your first memory, sir? Let's go back. No. OK. Yeah. So. wow.

Sara Kearns (02:08.207)
health care.

Sara Kearns (02:14.124)
Father, World War II, 1944, 1945, he would tell stories of Africa. He'd never been, but you would never have known it. He was like real, real, real. I mean, it was captivating. And I remember it then as being somewhere I wanted to go.

Jason Elkins (02:35.97)
Where did he get these stories from?

Sara Kearns (02:38.229)
Well, he was a traveler through reading. I mean, there wasn't any television then. He was a great historian, knew most things about most places. And I was just, it was like a walking encyclopedia. But in England, And so he sparked my interest first. And then, you know, I flew for BOAC. In fact,

Jason Elkins (02:41.582)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (02:54.474)
And you grew up in England, is that right? Mm-hmm. Okay.

Sara Kearns (03:07.755)
designed airplane undercarriages. I took him on his first adventure to Africa. I mean his eyes almost fell out of his head. It was so fun. He was there from Mump and it was the good old days when it was lots of vehicles packed with tents and staff and food and silver and it was like a big to do. And he did it from Mump and he had

Jason Elkins (03:10.9)
okay.

Jason Elkins (03:19.051)
Wow.

Jason Elkins (03:32.23)
wow.

Sara Kearns (03:36.395)
A friend of mine was the host and we had two amazing specialists or whatever you call them. One was a bird man, one was an animal man, and three, and one was a plant person. My father was interested in anything that grew, flew, people not so interesting. he was spoiled rotten. I mean, it wasn't commercial in those days. This was in 19...

Jason Elkins (03:49.102)
Mm-hmm.

Sara Kearns (04:04.459)
67?

Jason Elkins (04:07.746)
And you said you took him, right? So you were there with him the whole time.

Sara Kearns (04:11.124)
I was flying on BOAC and I asked him if he'd like to go and we arranged it and I arranged that he stay with a very good friend for a month and then I went and picked him up at the end of the month.

Jason Elkins (04:13.614)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (04:24.724)
Okay, so you weren't necessarily with him the whole time.

Sara Kearns (04:27.027)
No, I was working my little tail off as a trolley dolly.

Jason Elkins (04:32.31)
So help me out here. What is BOAC?

Sara Kearns (04:35.627)
British Airways now. The OAC, British Overseas Airways Corporation, better known as Better on a Camel.

Jason Elkins (04:38.731)
Okay, I was going to guess that.

Jason Elkins (04:44.494)
Mmm.

Nice. How long were you doing that?

Sara Kearns (04:51.147)
I flew that until 68, so 64 to 68. help me, I was sent away to school when I was 10 to France by myself, nobody with me. And no, I was an adventurer from the get-go. And I was at school in France, I was at school in Germany right after the war. I don't know how my mother had there, whatever.

Jason Elkins (04:57.74)
Had you traveled much before that?

Jason Elkins (05:03.68)
Okay. Wow.

Jason Elkins (05:17.326)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (05:20.738)
I think I'm picking up what you're, yeah, I gotcha.

Sara Kearns (05:21.099)
or something. And then I wanted to fly, but you had to be 21. So I answered an ad in the Times of London, and it was looking for an au pair for a family in New Jersey. I rode away and 18 years old, I was booked on a plane, but there was a terrible crash.

Jason Elkins (05:39.107)
Go.

Sara Kearns (05:47.923)
Over Idlewild, I think they called it then. What is Kennedy Airport now? Transwild and Pan American collided.

Jason Elkins (05:55.625)
okay.

Sara Kearns (05:57.039)
big crash. Anyway, I suddenly had a bit of a panic and so I bought a boat ticket instead. saw it was when you could change your mind and whatever. So I went by sea. As a five-day voyage turned out to be nine, the weather was atrocious and everybody was sick, everybody was missing at the dining. I was at every meal, I was outside braving the wind. My father built boats in his spare time.

Jason Elkins (06:06.574)
seems seems like a reasonable thing to do.

Sara Kearns (06:26.943)
sort of like sailing. I got here slowly.

Jason Elkins (06:28.494)
Okay, you kind of, you're one of those people that enjoys the journey, not just the destination, it sounds like.

Sara Kearns (06:34.175)
Yes, absolutely and I want people to get that back in there. They're always complaining. It's, you know, the journey is so tiresome or the journey is so... You meet some interesting people. You share your own story with others. I don't know why it's always been nobody looks at each other. Everybody looks the other way. anyway.

Jason Elkins (06:56.758)
Yeah, yeah. I think that's why you I think that's why you and I connect so well, because I'm definitely a journey person. I like to have a destination which gives me an excuse to make the journey. You know, I sometimes I'll just go on them. You know, I'm spending a lot of time in Columbia, I'll just pull out my phone, look at the map and I'll find some little Pueblo somewhere and I don't even know what's in the Pueblo. But I'm like, I'm just going to go find out. which now requires me to go to the bus station figure out of

Sara Kearns (07:21.899)
There you go.

Jason Elkins (07:25.784)
get a ticket to there and get on the bus and have whatever experience I have on the bus. Maybe I have to change buses a couple of times. And even if I get there and there's absolutely nothing to see, I don't care. I wasn't about that.

Sara Kearns (07:37.323)
It's either, I can't wait to go back because it was very interesting or maybe they've done that. It was a great day.

Jason Elkins (07:43.32)
huh. Yeah. And I saw some I saw some stuff along the way or I, know, whatever. And it's and I've had enough conversations similar to this now that I am starting to realize not everybody is that way. And actually, I spoke with spoke with someone the other day whose works, you know, in this space, he's, you know, was a travel blogger and writer and photographer. And anybody that's listened to his episodes going to know who I'm talking about.

Sara Kearns (07:58.632)
hello.

Jason Elkins (08:12.84)
And I just assumed I made this assumption that he must've seen some really amazing things along the way. And somehow the conversation came up. It's like, is it about the journey or the destination? And he says, I don't, I don't care about the journey. I don't like the journey. I don't, just, I want to go there. I want to see what's there. And it's a pain in the butt to get there. And I was just, yeah.

Sara Kearns (08:34.139)
That's exactly how most people describe travel. It's like, can you do it? It takes so long. it's boring.

Jason Elkins (08:43.138)
Well, it's interesting because this guy, you he's been to, I don't know, 200 countries and all 50 states a couple of times in the U.S. and he's he's been everywhere, it sounds like. And but it's still, you know, his just his focus is different. I don't I don't understand it. It's not mine. But I, know, it's obviously he wants to go see things.

Sara Kearns (09:04.299)
It's great to see business of travel and find the actual traveling not much fun.

Jason Elkins (09:08.109)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (09:12.59)
He did say that given the choice, he'd rather take a train or something like that to be a little, yeah, to be a little, a little bit more flexibility. Cause you get on an airplane. It doesn't take as long, but you can't just, you don't just see something on this, on the side of the road and stop and go check out the street food or whatever, you know, you're kind of a little bit limited.

Sara Kearns (09:31.659)
Well, I think, you know, from all the things that I did, you know, I wanted to fly and I did, but I had to spend two years in America, 18, 19 and 20, nearly three, before I could go home at 21, I was able to fly. But I had a year and a bit here in New Jersey, and then I decided that why not go to California? It's the same business as going home almost, but I could go further.

Jason Elkins (09:53.624)
Sure, why not?

Jason Elkins (09:59.992)
How did you get from New Jersey to California based on our conversation we've been having?

Sara Kearns (10:02.641)
I went on a plane and it landed in so many places. It left Newark, I think it went to Cincinnati, then it went to Chicago, then it went to Kansas, then it went to Las Vegas, and then it got to Los Angeles. It was a long day. And I had no idea where to stay. Somebody had given me a phone number and just said, if you go to Los Angeles, give this person a call.

Jason Elkins (10:20.62)
Holy cow. Yeah, it's a little little different now.

Sara Kearns (10:31.963)
I don't even know if I asked the name of the person. I was like, OK, I doubt this is going to work, but you know, I'll put it in my purse. Anyway, it was Rory Calhoun. I don't know if you've ever heard of him. He was a cowboy in the 60s. Yes, or hide or something. Anyway, I ring the number and he says, who's this? I said, this is Sarah Kerns.

Jason Elkins (10:47.776)
Okay, like a television I take it movie or television cowboy. Okay, all right.

Sara Kearns (11:01.215)
no, it was Sarah Ginders, because I hadn't been married then, I was young. And he said, a friend of mine told me you might call. I went, And he said, Why don't you just jump in a cab and come over? Well, my luggage, got my cab. When I gave the cab, the driver asked me the address. He said, Are you sure this is right? And I went, Yes, it's 901 Bedford Drive in Beverly Hills.

Jason Elkins (11:07.694)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (11:23.31)
Mmm.

Sara Kearns (11:30.995)
And I guess he must have thought, you know, did I know where I was going?

Jason Elkins (11:33.454)
He probably thought a few different things there that we don't need to discuss.

Sara Kearns (11:39.019)
Anyway gets out of the car and gets my luggage I go push the doorbell and We wait and then this huge tall six foot six, you know black black hair gentlemen open the door and said welcome Sarah you made it blah blah blah the cab driver was like,

get the party to the right place. that was sort of, when a party's every night, I mean it was like landing in Disney World.

Jason Elkins (12:05.71)
Very, very cool.

Jason Elkins (12:13.398)
I can only imagine and as you were setting up that story and sharing that story, I thought we really need to discuss what your parents thought of you doing this, going to the US at 18 on a ship and...

Sara Kearns (12:26.705)
my wonderful parents, never stopped me, they tried to encourage me to do whatever I had in mind to do except for I had to finance it. They weren't going to finance it, they couldn't. So I found all kinds of ways to make the money to get there and I'd been in a convent for god knows 12 years and that was sort of tough so I was really wanting to get out there and have a good time.

Jason Elkins (12:36.066)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (12:39.64)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (12:54.136)
Go to Los Angeles, hang out with the movie stars. What's that?

Sara Kearns (12:56.011)
I came home by sea. I thought, why not? It'll take a month to go home. I went from Los Angeles down to Acapulco, Acapulco to Panama, through the canal, Jamaica, Bermuda, Laos and France, and then I finally got home.

Jason Elkins (13:09.934)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (13:14.637)
Holy cow.

So I heard you say your parents were wonderful. They were supportive of all this as long as you could finance it. Was it, do you feel like it?

Sara Kearns (13:25.481)
They sent me with ten pounds.

Jason Elkins (13:28.888)
Well, look at you.

Sara Kearns (13:31.783)
And I thought, that's a lot of money. I'm getting across the street now. But anyway, no, and I came home after two years away and I gave them back the 10 pounds.

Jason Elkins (13:34.574)
You

Jason Elkins (13:43.266)
There you go. Do you feel like they let you go because they're just supportive parents? I mean, I'm wondering.

Sara Kearns (13:48.511)
They were very supportive. They wanted me to learn languages I speak for and get as much experience as I could before deciding what to actually do. Because I certainly want somebody who wants to go to university.

Jason Elkins (14:00.64)
Okay, so.

So it wasn't just a, fine. If you want to go do it, you go do it. We'll, sign off on it. It was, sounds like it was more like, yeah, this is great. You should do this and you're going to learn all this stuff and experience all these things.

Sara Kearns (14:16.308)
Imagine no cell phones, had to sort of dial up or you have to have a reverse charge call or whatever. Wrote letters and put stamps on.

Jason Elkins (14:22.19)
huh.

Wow, wow, okay, that's a...

Sara Kearns (14:27.371)
I've lived through a lot of adventure before I even started thinking it being my sort of destiny.

Jason Elkins (14:36.078)
It kind of sounds like, mean, based on what you've said just so far, I'm starting to kind of see why you're where you are and still doing those things. So I'm happy we went back that far and had that conversation. So I guess what's...

Sara Kearns (14:40.052)
You

Sara Kearns (14:50.845)
It was what set me off early, very early in my life. But anyway, fast forward, I flew, I met a wonderful gentleman on one of my flights. I think it was out of Persia, out of Iran, out of Tehran. And he was flying back to London and he was the best thing you ever saw. But I didn't take any messages or anything. And he found me and I flew to Bermuda. He was on holiday. I was on a flight.

Jason Elkins (14:54.872)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (15:10.414)
You

Sara Kearns (15:20.811)
working it and we met up in Bermuda and I said you are a very good detective.

Jason Elkins (15:29.568)
So you were both living in London at the time. But that's a big place. And we didn't have cell phones and it wasn't that easy to track people down.

Sara Kearns (15:32.165)
I both living in London. It's a big place and I was fairly close to where he was living, but I didn't realize that. He was moving. No sooner had I met him in Bermuda, he was moving to Rome. So I said, fine, let's meet in Rome. Next trip I do to Rome, I'll give you a call. And sure enough, I had a flight to Rome. I requested one.

Jason Elkins (15:44.151)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (15:54.382)
Because you're pretty good at making things happen, I can tell.

Sara Kearns (15:59.067)
Right and I never took no for an answer I always thought it's possible and if you don't try you can't have it so and he said well would you like to come and see my apartment and I said why not guess where that was overlooking trevy fountain the address 100 yards of trevy I went anyway we had dinner at the fountain in Rome

Jason Elkins (16:03.342)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jason Elkins (16:18.026)
OK, I'm not from I'm.

Jason Elkins (16:24.194)
That was the place and that was the place in Rome or are we speaking London? I'm lost. Okay.

Sara Kearns (16:28.509)
No, no, he left London after he was in Bermuda. So I him in Rome. Then I went to Israel several times. He was covering the Six Day War, so 67. He was a journalist. was, listen to this, he was chief African correspondent for CBS News.

Jason Elkins (16:31.182)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (16:40.354)
Was he a journalist? Okay.

Jason Elkins (16:48.519)
Okay, I'm connecting all the dots here. I I suspect you've manifested that I don't know if you believe in manifestation, but it sounds like you manifested that one.

Sara Kearns (16:51.049)
feel like, how did I pick that one?

So you won't hear all of it, but I think you can enjoy that.

Sara Kearns (17:03.675)
I manifested it. they got me going and Frank certainly encouraged it. And so there we go. We get married.

Jason Elkins (17:12.728)
Did your dad? Did your dad have opportunities to get to know him? Is that okay? Because I can imagine if he was the, you know, the reader that he was, he probably they would, it just seems like they would have really

Sara Kearns (17:17.649)
Yes, just. Not very long.

for another. Jim, I had to really worry about her.

Jason Elkins (17:29.708)
Sara Kearns (17:31.211)
He was older than I was. very nice young man. Anyway, it worked out. He finally quit CBS and he went back to his alma mater in West Virginia, University of West Virginia, in Morgantown, where we spent 13 years. Talk about crazy. You just left Rome, wine, beautiful food.

Jason Elkins (17:33.645)
Ha ha ha.

huh, yeah.

Jason Elkins (17:47.982)
Okay.

Sara Kearns (17:58.495)
Fabulous people and then you get to West Virginia is dry for a start really boring and no coffee It's all Folgers or Maxwell house and I just said wine. Where do we buy wine? So we'd be in the car every weekend going to either Pittsburgh or Washington DC to load up 13 years. I ran a business the interior design he taught journalism and I played tennis won everything in sight

Jason Elkins (18:17.357)
Mm-hmm.

Sara Kearns (18:27.847)
And then I think, you he said, I'm fed up with teaching. You know, they're all boring students. There's only one every blue moon. There's any good let's retire and go to Italy. So I'd retired from BOAC. I had retired from, Morgantown and the teaching and my business got to Italy. He got sick. And three years in, I lost him.

Jason Elkins (18:36.846)
Mm-hmm.

Sara Kearns (18:54.603)
I came back and I opened up a bed and breakfast in New York City, the first one to be registered legally, long before Airbnb, and did that for eight years. Then I was headhunted by an amazing gentleman who had his own private Gulfstream. And he was a private chef, no strings, no family, you know, 24-7 year on call. And I did that for 11 years.

Jason Elkins (19:01.432)
Hmm.

Jason Elkins (19:12.417)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (19:21.069)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (19:25.166)
Was that out of New York as well or?

Sara Kearns (19:26.987)
That was out of Newark. He lived in Brooklyn. The plane was in Newark. And we went all over the world. It was fantastic.

Jason Elkins (19:29.39)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (19:34.7)
So were you only working for him when you were traveling or was this a...

Sara Kearns (19:38.655)
Yes, only when he was on the plane. I was his chef on the plane.

Jason Elkins (19:42.744)
That's OK.

Sara Kearns (19:44.267)
I mean sometimes it was just him and the crew so that was easy. Sometimes he'd have 13 guests and a lot of food and some flights were hours long.

Jason Elkins (19:52.364)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (19:57.888)
And would you typically stay over? I don't know if you call layover when it's a private plane like that,

Sara Kearns (20:01.285)
I can be away for three weeks. The trips changed every time, you he, he, it was his own plane. He didn't charter it or rent it or his, he had a lot of business on it. A lot.

Jason Elkins (20:12.834)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (20:17.752)
Do you, I'm just curious, have you kept track of all the places you went? I like the number, not that this is about counting countries. There's only four you said. Wow. All right. When are we going? Let's go. Okay. I can understand why you might not be on your list.

Sara Kearns (20:24.171)
There's only four countries I've not been to.

Mm-hmm North Korea has won

Sara Kearns (20:40.061)
Albania was one, but I could go now. It was so close to Italy, but it was completely shot shot. And Antarctica. Now it's a bit cold. I really want to see the penguins. And the other is Mongolia. And I'd like to go. So that's not one that I've written off. I'd like to.

Jason Elkins (20:57.966)
All right, so you're still open to the idea that you visit a few of those places.

Sara Kearns (21:02.091)
Yeah, if I can make the list shorter.

Jason Elkins (21:04.526)
If you go to Antarctica, I interviewed somebody who we were discussing that and he was talking about the, I don't remember if they just called the cold plunge, whatever where it's tradition to jump off the boat into the water for a few seconds.

Sara Kearns (21:17.523)
no, I mean it's cold and I'm getting to not like the cold at all. I think maybe I missed my boat there, as they say. You can fly there. There's planes that land on, in at Murdozsar. But, anyways. I have been to many, places and my heart, to begin with, I fell in love, hard to say, actually I've always loved.

Jason Elkins (21:25.004)
You

Jason Elkins (21:28.782)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (21:32.396)
And I've yeah.

Sara Kearns (21:44.423)
Australia's fascinating. I have a lot of Australian paintings. This one, I have 19 pieces that I bought over the years. And I love Australia. I love Argentina. I could live Hong Kong. Used to be a lot of fun. I'm not sure it's the same. Tahiti, not the big island, but the little ones, gorgeous, beautiful water.

Jason Elkins (21:52.941)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (22:06.412)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (22:12.49)
Mm-hmm. And where are you living? I think you mentioned New Jersey, right?

Sara Kearns (22:17.051)
I live in New York State, very close to the Jersey line. I'm an hour from the city, which means most of my clients are there, so I have to go into the city.

Jason Elkins (22:20.928)
Okay, all right.

Jason Elkins (22:29.034)
I'm curious because you've been so many places. What is it about New York that really draws you to actually still live there?

Sara Kearns (22:35.635)
Well, I met someone while I got this job flying and I wanted to live out of the city because I saw cities all the time. And I'm on a horse farm with 18 horses. And I've got an apartment that is like two stalls put together. And I've got a bit more room. But it's beautiful. You walk out the door, you're on the ground, you know, you're up and down stairs or elevators or doorman.

Jason Elkins (22:42.958)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (22:46.637)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (22:53.656)
Okay.

That's cool.

Jason Elkins (23:04.204)
Yeah, I haven't had a lot of experience living in cities. And I've always thought I I really like New York City a lot. And we lived in Vermont for quite a while and we'd come down to the very pretty, very rural, beautiful. I probably won't live there again. I'm pretty, pretty sure I won't ever live there again.

Sara Kearns (23:15.241)
Now the moon's pretty, very pretty.

Sara Kearns (23:23.787)
And the reason I can live here is because I usually go to Africa four or five times a year. So I don't sort of get stuck here.

Jason Elkins (23:31.682)
Mm-hmm.

Well, that was when, when we went to Vermont, it was actually for me to take a travel job, to run a travel business where I had the opportunity to go pretty much anywhere I wanted when I wanted for business, for work to, to do that thing. And so I kind of looked at it like, yeah, I can live in Vermont. If I can go, you know, to, to Argentina or to Africa or to New Zealand. was like, I don't care how I'm not going to say.

Sara Kearns (23:53.828)
I always have to one or two tickets in my inbox.

Jason Elkins (24:03.096)
Vermont is boring. Because I have some friends that still live there that might be listening to this. But yeah, so I get it. So it's nice. It's kind of nice to have the option to go to the city or those things, but not, you know, I think I always thought I'd love to live in Manhattan. And then I realized, probably for a year or two, maybe.

Sara Kearns (24:05.171)
I'm just kidding.

These are lunches.

Sara Kearns (24:23.691)
It was plenty plenty very much it's very busy very hard work It's everything's a struggle people walking like that parking the car very hard You pay as much to part the car as you do to live in the apartment is crazy crazy Like you're in the bush you're far away from

Jason Elkins (24:32.556)
Yeah, people what's that?

parking the car.

Jason Elkins (24:45.666)
Yeah, yep, I get that.

Sara Kearns (24:52.799)
big roads and red lights and signs. It's, I guess it's become part of my, I really love it. And when I take people, they get it, but they don't get it before they go.

Jason Elkins (24:57.226)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (25:06.252)
Yeah, it's one of those places that I, you know, tell me about Africa. How do I do that? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, and

Sara Kearns (25:08.936)
You

Sara Kearns (25:12.764)
They don't believe me that it's going to be that nice. They just think she's talking a lot. When they get there it's like, you're right, my goodness, the people are so nice.

Jason Elkins (25:25.538)
That was actually that was my first thought when I went there. I've only been a couple of times and the first time I was there. That was the first thing that blew me away was just how super friendly and that was

Sara Kearns (25:35.253)
to, but if you're willing to do whatever, never, that's not my job, type of line, which I get here all the time. I really do, it's like, you ask someone to do, I don't do that, that's not my job.

Jason Elkins (25:43.007)
No.

Jason Elkins (25:48.108)
Yeah, it's the union. It's in the union contract. I can't do that. Is there, have you ever actually lived in Africa? I mean, I know you've spent a tremendous amount of time. It's almost like you've lived there.

Sara Kearns (25:54.539)
like, good, this.

Sara Kearns (26:00.715)
I think maybe the longest time was three months in Nairobi.

Jason Elkins (26:05.134)
Okay, do think you could live there?

Do think you could live in Africa? And if so, where?

Sara Kearns (26:10.355)
I don't know how strange you should ask that because I was contemplating this last year thinking I really missed it. Maybe I should go stay there for a couple of years.

Jason Elkins (26:20.835)
Mm-hmm.

Sara Kearns (26:23.061)
But I don't know that I really, I'm so settled here.

Jason Elkins (26:27.982)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (26:31.776)
If you were, I'm just curious where you were, what were you considering? What's that?

Sara Kearns (26:32.395)
I think I love it because I don't live there. think I'm involved with what goes on behind the scenes or what goes on under the... I don't really want to know that.

Jason Elkins (26:39.886)
Jason Elkins (26:48.994)
Yeah, I don't want to know that about the US, to be honest with you.

Sara Kearns (26:55.947)
I said yes but I'm selling and the holidays are very expensive.

Jason Elkins (27:02.77)
Mm Yeah. Yeah. Do you is there a particular place or in Africa that you were considering or that anybody that's listening to this that's like, I want to live there.

Sara Kearns (27:11.787)
Well, this book, this is my latest East Africa one, and it's got 81 pages.

Jason Elkins (27:18.368)
Okay, read the title of that too, of that for our listeners, because they can't see it. I can see it kind of.

Sara Kearns (27:25.745)
All the time, so, Afaris, ultimate source book, East Africa edition. So, this comes Kenya, Tanzania, Rwanda, and Uganda. A lot of chimpanzees and gorillas are in that area, plus the big five, plus all the other, the migration, Zanzibar, Tanzania, the coast. And the next book is very similar looking, but it's the Southern Africa edition.

Jason Elkins (27:45.698)
Mm-hmm.

Sara Kearns (27:54.729)
That has 11 countries.

Jason Elkins (27:57.23)
So you brought up the book right when I asked you where in Africa you might consider living. I want to get back. No, Roby. OK.

Sara Kearns (28:03.275)
Well, I think it would be Nairobi, I think. I'd have to really think about why would I live there? Would I be doing what I do now?

Jason Elkins (28:12.323)
Okay.

Hmm on the other side of it, maybe a little bit

Sara Kearns (28:16.483)
And I get the best of both worlds because I get to choose a lot of the places to go to because nobody has a clue.

Jason Elkins (28:25.58)
Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's

Sara Kearns (28:27.851)
So if they want me to go along, think, well, where have I not been recently, or where's the best place, or what's going to suit them? I like that smorgasbord of choice. I don't want to be stuck with, I've come to live here. No.

Jason Elkins (28:44.084)
Okay. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And I'm curious, because one of the things that's unique about Africa is just the sheer volume of options. It's a huge place.

Sara Kearns (28:54.895)
it's huge. And that's what most people ask them for a wish list. That's my first opening question. You know, what what do you think you want to see? And out comes this long, long list. Cairo, Egypt, pyramids, Nairobi, migration, Kenya, Kilimanjaro, the beach, Zanzibar. how about gorillas in Rwanda? How about Botswana, Zambia, Zimbabwe?

And then it's, Namibia sounds good. South Africa. yes, I'd like to do Cape Town. I said, how big is your pockets and how much time? Usually the people with the time don't have the money. The people with the money don't have the time. So I mean, unless you're just dealing with old folks, they've all got those. It's hard to slow people down and say, look,

Jason Elkins (29:32.968)
How much time do you have?

Sara Kearns (29:52.447)
you want a really good adventure, need to go to one place, maybe two, and not race around and changing underwear, changing bedclothes, changing airports. You're dizzy.

Jason Elkins (30:05.186)
Yeah, it can get exhausting. I've been traveling full time for the last few years and it can get

Sara Kearns (30:10.109)
It can be tiring. You have to pace yourself. And you need to... I always say if you like it on the first visit, maybe you can consider a second. But usually the first thing out of their mouth is, this is a trip of a lifetime. I'll never go again. I want to see it all. So I have to sort of unknit the sweater and tell them, I honestly think you shouldn't do.

Jason Elkins (30:13.602)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Jason Elkins (30:29.506)
But how does that usually work out?

Jason Elkins (30:34.966)
Yeah, yeah.

Sara Kearns (30:39.275)
or you can't do all. So you have to choose out of the 10 things you wanted to do, how about five and then out of the five or maybe do three. Sometimes you can do a lot of things in a lot of places, but if you want to see Vic Falls, you have to go to Zimbabwe.

Jason Elkins (30:49.023)
Two or three.

Jason Elkins (30:59.89)
So I'm curious, like, what I you say is a lot of people like, this is triple lifetime. We're only going to go once. We're not going to go back. We got to do it all over there. And then you talk some sense into it. We're help them see the errors of their ways. But I also suspect that an awful lot of those people that told you, I'm never going back this triple lifetime. I suspect you've got a pretty good repeat and return clientele, don't you?

Sara Kearns (31:11.627)
I tried.

Sara Kearns (31:25.033)
Yes, exactly. Because when they get there, it's not what they expected. It's way better. People and the trouble is trying to get them to go, you know, they'll agree, let's do it again. But they want to go back to the same place because they like the people. That's the feeding the object, you know, that there's many more nice people in different places.

Jason Elkins (31:30.232)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (31:41.142)
You

Jason Elkins (31:48.94)
Yeah, so I would think doing a continent as big as Africa as a tour operator and offering so many different options is great because you've got a lot of different options. It's challenging because you've got a lot of different options.

Sara Kearns (32:04.171)
Winning them out. Some win themselves out because the cost of going is never cheap. But the top end has got very top end. It used to be a thousand a day was good. 1500 was like way good. It's now three and four thousand a day per person. So that would, you know, take some choices off the list.

Jason Elkins (32:15.959)
Hmm.

Jason Elkins (32:30.764)
And usually when the prices go up like that, it's because of there's just a lot of demand or the supply goes down. I'm assuming the supply hasn't gone down much.

Sara Kearns (32:38.123)
The supply hasn't gone down. In fact, it's coming up. I think people have finally got over COVID. You the ones who were scared to travel. And there's a lot of money out there. There really is. You remember the days? Well, you're too young. Used to be able to go to Europe on like $10 a day.

Jason Elkins (32:56.782)
I don't remember that. I'm sorry. I would like to.

Sara Kearns (33:00.469)
Well, that's, know, in 50s and 60s, that was, and you could do it all on $10 a day. it's, know, yeah.

Jason Elkins (33:06.53)
Yeah, well I remember there were travel books out. There were Europe for, you know, 10 bucks a day or whatever it was. So yeah, and I would like to find a place I can do that.

Sara Kearns (33:12.415)
Yeah.

Sara Kearns (33:15.839)
But those days are long gone. There are still some bargains, but the bargains aren't really bargains because the park fees are the same whether you're in a thousand dollar a day or a twenty dollar a day. So you still have to pay two hundred dollars a day just to go in the park.

Jason Elkins (33:32.278)
Right. I'm curious for someone that wants to go spend some time in Africa. That's not in the maybe they've one of those people that have the time but no money and was just going to go kind of travel around. So I'm a digital nomad. You where should I where should I go as somebody that really doesn't have any money? I'm not expecting to stay at the game camps. I know that those are expensive. But if there were one country that would just be an interesting place to go hang out and could get inexpensive accommodations and just have a nice time.

Sara Kearns (33:34.943)
Thanks for watching.

Sara Kearns (33:45.131)
Thank

Sara Kearns (34:00.555)
Zimbabwe has definitely got more to sell. Zambia a little bit. I'm sure if you wander around Kenya out of the main parks there's plenty to places to stay that are reasonable. But yeah, there are ways you can take the bus. Most countries have buses.

Jason Elkins (34:04.141)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (34:19.383)
OK.

Jason Elkins (34:23.054)
Mm-hmm.

Sara Kearns (34:25.695)
that go to all those little villages where everybody, all the guys, very few of them live very close to the camp. So when they go home for the days off, they work six weeks on, seven days a week, and then they have four or five days off and they get on a bus and they'll spend all day going back to their village. We're all very spoiled. People say, I only travel business class. I said, really?

Jason Elkins (34:46.573)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (34:56.367)
I love taking buses. I mean, I just here in Colombia, it's I have no desire to have a car. Sometimes I think I might like to get a motorcycle. Yeah, yeah, you could. But I like the buses. I mean, I really like the buses. just like a I don't know. No, I'm just kind of doing my solo thing and move it around. So, you know, if I've got a friend, we're going somewhere. I just I like to get on the bus because.

Sara Kearns (35:05.129)
We could rent one. If you needed.

Sara Kearns (35:12.779)
Is there a loan? Do you have family with you?

Okay.

Jason Elkins (35:23.406)
I don't know. It's just now. Now when I meet Colombians.

Sara Kearns (35:25.419)
It's great and you have great trains. Peru has lovely trains. don't know about Colombia.

Jason Elkins (35:30.968)
Well, we've got a, example, like a Metro system here in Medellin. That's, you know, the nicest, the nicest Metro system I've ever been on. mean, it is spotless. You cannot even open a bottle of water while you're on the train because they will, everybody will look at you and Hey, you're breaking the rules. so, which means it's completely spotless. It's well taken care of, but I talk about how much I love the Metro. I like the buses. I like the taxis. I like all that stuff.

Sara Kearns (35:34.677)
Looks.

Sara Kearns (35:48.041)
like a lot of it.

Sara Kearns (36:00.196)
Because you've got people on them.

Jason Elkins (36:02.446)
I, you can tell that about me, can't you? And what's interesting though, is when I meet Colombians, especially, you know, I'm a single guy. I, I date sometimes and I meet people and, and I've, I've learned that for me to suggest that we go get on a bus and go to one of the pueblos in the hills and, and eat empanadas to me, that's a fascinating date. And I've learned that it's kind of the, the, the,

Sara Kearns (36:29.675)
You

Jason Elkins (36:32.63)
equivalent of if I'm in the US, you know, I take a girl to McDonald's or something. She's not going to be oppressed. You know, she's like, I ride the bus six days a week, you know, 45 minutes to work, 45 minutes to get home every day. And it's crowded. And I don't like the buses. The last thing I want to do is go get on a bus on date night. So it's.

Sara Kearns (36:58.933)
think it all comes back to work has become something nobody really likes doing anymore. It's a chore.

Jason Elkins (37:05.144)
Yeah. Yeah. And they associate certain things with their tours, which makes sense. I get that.

Sara Kearns (37:10.697)
Right. And I have been fortunate, touch wood, to have always enjoyed what I've done. And I think that is, you know, the secret to a long, happy life and long may it last because I'm not ready to give up.

Jason Elkins (37:17.595)
Mm hmm. I can, I can tell.

Jason Elkins (37:29.464)
Yeah, I can tell. I do want to touch on one thing that I had thought about earlier is these preconceived ideas. I'm speaking to you from Columbia, we're talking about Africa, we're speaking about Africa. And I think you and I, what's that? It is very cool. And I also recognize that

Sara Kearns (37:43.039)
that's the beauty of the world these days. The beauty of the world, you know, you can be in two different places and live in the same at the same time.

Jason Elkins (37:53.364)
When I told people I was going to start traveling and I was going to start off going to Columbia by myself as a middle-aged guy, all kinds of stereotypes and all kinds of stuff came up with my family and friends. I know that when you speak about, you know, to potential clients, maybe if you're already speaking to them, maybe they've already kind of accepted the idea that they want to go to Africa. But I'm sure that when you speak to other people and tell them what you do, you get a lot of

Sara Kearns (38:06.443)
haha

Jason Elkins (38:21.014)
stereotypes, a lot of questions about safety, viruses, health stuff, whatever, whatever. So I wanted to just take a moment for you to kind of address some of those common concerns that people have expressed to you. phobias Yeah.

Sara Kearns (38:22.322)
yeah. They're terrified.

Sara Kearns (38:35.069)
Yes, phobias. No, going to Africa is easier than going most places. But, you know, they're slowly deciding that maybe yellow fever is something one should have to cross borders. Now, if you just go to one country, it's not so necessary. But if you're going to be traveling through Africa, they do seem to think that yellow fever is necessary, but none of the others. So it's really simple.

Jason Elkins (39:04.778)
And a yellow fever shot is pretty easy to get,

Sara Kearns (39:05.4)
It's that way. Bites and insects, they're terrifying. They're more in my garden in the summer than I see in Africa.

Jason Elkins (39:16.302)
Well, and also you look at the size of the continent, if any, it's kind of the same thing here and are in the US or in the whole world really is one thing happens that gets a lot of attention. And if you've never been to Africa and the headline is mulch mulch shooting in Africa, it's like they think, man, I'm not going to Africa. There's mulch shootings in Africa, but let's let's seriously think.

Sara Kearns (39:29.227)
and it blows up out of.

Sara Kearns (39:34.033)
Africa's had a lot. They think it's everyone.

Sara Kearns (39:42.965)
That's how you see it.

Jason Elkins (39:44.63)
Yeah, let's think about what happens in the US.

Sara Kearns (39:47.561)
Which school do your child go to?

Jason Elkins (39:51.15)
Right. Yeah. And I'm not.

Sara Kearns (39:52.639)
And we have a lousy record of shooting people. Terrible.

Jason Elkins (39:59.244)
Yeah, and I mean, obviously there's places and times in Africa and everywhere in the world where it's like, okay, maybe this is not the right place to be right now for you. But if you've never if

Sara Kearns (40:10.687)
But you can actually be there and not know anything is happening. And it's maybe 100 miles away where something's happening. you say, people say it's Africa. The whole of Africa suddenly gets a tar brush.

Jason Elkins (40:21.442)
Yeah, which, you know, anybody just look at the map. Look how big it is.

Sara Kearns (40:29.645)
Where it is what countries they've flown over But once they get there meet the people they're overwhelmed with How nice how polite how this how that I'm well, I've been trying to tell you for a while Really haven't listened because you have a preconceived idea That they're all criminals and crooks. What does Trump call everybody, you know?

Jason Elkins (40:33.806)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (40:55.899)
All right. Tell us how you really feel.

Sara Kearns (40:59.275)
I'm getting very excited because I'm going back. haven't been back since last February because I was doing these books.

Jason Elkins (41:09.964)
So we're so we're in November 2024 right now. But the thing with podcasts is somebody could be listening to this a couple years from now. But I'm curious on this next trip. Where are you going? What's

Sara Kearns (41:16.926)
Right?

Sara Kearns (41:21.545)
The next one, this one, I'm coming up, I'm going to Nairobi, I'm going to Aseili, I'm going to the Meru Park, coming back to Nairobi, and going to the Mara. Looking at new properties, there's always something new, and whether they want to be in the book or not, I'll ask them. And then February, I'm taking my grand nieces, four and six, and they are so excited. They're going with their grandfather, my niece and husband.

Jason Elkins (41:25.774)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (41:39.624)
okay.

Jason Elkins (41:46.604)
Really? Ooh.

Sara Kearns (41:51.773)
and they are, it's Auntie Sarah, Auntie Sarah, will I see an elephant? I want to see an elephant! Four and six. But the excitement level is amazing. I love it.

Jason Elkins (42:04.45)
That is very cool, especially considering the conversation we were just having, know, people that have concerns about traveling and usually when safety concerns come up, it's all what about kids and this and that.

Sara Kearns (42:17.457)
they love it. And the best deal there is a lot of the counts, the children are free until they're sometimes up to 15, but definitely 11 or 12.

Jason Elkins (42:26.734)
I'm not going to make any jokes about bringing your kids for free and feeding the wildlife or anything like that. I'm not going even touch on that.

Sara Kearns (42:33.567)
think the lion's going to jump in the truck. said the lion has no interest in you whatsoever. Zero. Whatever you see on TV is somebody's fault.

Jason Elkins (42:43.276)
Yeah, yeah. there's, I mean, obviously, these are wild animals, you got to treat them with respect. But we see that the Western United States, you know, and these people that have never left the US, these are animals that are native to the US and people do the stupidest thing. That's exactly what I was thinking about.

Sara Kearns (42:48.403)
I want them. You treat them with respect.

Sara Kearns (42:59.187)
Yellowstone Park, you know, they'll have to buy some, hello.

Jason Elkins (43:06.562)
I used to live, I lived, grew up in Wyoming and I lived just north of Yellowstone. I was a fly fishing guide and I used to take people into that, into Yellowstone park for fishing. And, but the point is every summer, somebody does something, puts a baby buffalo in their car or because they think it's abandoned and you know, or put tries to put their kid on the top on the back of a moose so they can take a photo and yeah.

Sara Kearns (43:09.812)
Nice.

Sara Kearns (43:25.387)
It's lost.

Jason Elkins (43:36.886)
And there's it's not for lack of education. And like you go into the park, there's signs everywhere. They give you.

Sara Kearns (43:41.259)
There's a bit of rule for it. Read the signs. Do not get out of your car. Do not pet the animals.

Jason Elkins (43:49.186)
And then they give you a flyer that says the exact same thing. I should not share this story, but I guess I can. My brother, my brother is, you know, grew up the same area I did. And his wife was from back East and her parents came to visit when they were in, you know, they were living in Montana. Her parents came to visit and they thought, we'll take them. We'll take them to Yellowstone Park. And you really hope nobody's listening to this that knows. Anyway, they go in the park.

Sara Kearns (43:56.139)
you

Sara Kearns (44:15.595)
You

Jason Elkins (44:18.44)
And there's all the signs and then they've got the radio on a loop that park information radio because there's no other radio stations there. So you you listen to that and then they've got the brochures, everything. Don't do this. Stay on the trail. Don't touch the water. You know, the hot springs are toxic. You know, they're acidic. All the stuff about all the stuff they're driving in the park. His mother-in-law is in the backseat reading, reading all this stuff out loud to the group.

Sara Kearns (44:44.031)
Ha ha ha ha!

Jason Elkins (44:45.004)
And then they go to the geyser area and they're out walking on the trail and Justin, you know, I guess they're behind him and he hears her say, wow. The water is hot. And he turns around and she's laying up. She's laying on the boardwalk with her hand in one of the hot springs. And he said, I just, I just looked at her. I turned around and just kept walking. Like I, I don't know who this person is.

Sara Kearns (44:58.827)
boiling.

Sara Kearns (45:12.682)
This road.

Jason Elkins (45:14.072)
She's not with me. You know, so anyway.

Sara Kearns (45:19.035)
Human behaviour can be somewhat strange.

Jason Elkins (45:23.19)
Yeah, yeah, but you know, we're all animals and we all have our weird little things that we do.

Sara Kearns (45:26.891)
We like to think we're the biggest and the best. They don't seem to realise that elephants weigh two tonnes.

Jason Elkins (45:30.542)
boy, so

Sara Kearns (45:36.775)
It is always fun to see it through other people's eyes. It is. That's part of my attraction, I think, for me.

Jason Elkins (45:42.84)
There it is.

I agree with you completely. For me, travel and this stuff is about the shared experiences. Whether it's with somebody that I already have a family member or another person on a group trip or a guide or just really anybody. It's just I want that connection. I crave that connection. And sometimes along with that, people do things that you think is weird. But you're like, okay, they're having their experience.

Some people can read that the hot spring that don't touch the springs, it's hot and acidic. Other people need to actually feel it to really believe it. And that's fine.

Sara Kearns (46:23.819)
You don't want to believe what the truth is sometimes.

Jason Elkins (46:27.182)
I'm sure you've had some some client stories and I'm not asking you for names and if I don't want you to reveal anything, but I

Sara Kearns (46:35.025)
one crazy lady, the guide had been telling them all along, you know, don't get out of the car until I tell you. And he pulls up and he's looking for a sundowner spot where the sun's going down. Wonderful. The guy will choose a spot where the sun is going down. And it's usually there's a body of water because that's where animals come to drink. And he sets up a bar and

Jason Elkins (46:47.513)
Yeah. Tell us about the sundowner tradition as well.

Sara Kearns (47:03.039)
You know, everybody has their gin and tonics and the ice and the lemon and the whole thing. It's all very beautiful. But if we had literally pulled up to a spot that he thought would be suitable and the woman jumped out of the car, save as a lion in the bushes. And I thought, get back in the car, you stupid twit.

Jason Elkins (47:23.352)
Wait, she jumped out and said there's a lion in the bushes?

Sara Kearns (47:26.898)
Oof.

He hadn't seen it. He was busy looking for a spot and it was pretty well hidden, have to say. was lying down asleep, so it wasn't sort of up there. And you know, it woke him up, I tell you, when she, you know, the car door, they hear everything. you have to keep your eyes and ears open as to idiots that might do something silly. But we were all right. We got in the car. We moved a spot to where, well, there was no lion lying around and we all got out.

Jason Elkins (47:34.094)
Mm-hmm.

Sara Kearns (47:59.111)
It's... You have to be aware.

Jason Elkins (48:02.69)
I used to joke that, you know, when I was guiding more, I would joke that the number one rule in the guide handbook or in the guide rule book is you gotta, the number one rule is you gotta come back with the same number of people you left with. And it's kind of a joke, but, when you see some of the things that people do.

Sara Kearns (48:12.117)
Run.

Sara Kearns (48:17.291)
Well that is sort of number one rule. I need... I need to investigate something that's missing. Hello, where's that one?

Jason Elkins (48:28.174)
So anyway, crazy. I think I think you and I could share stories all day long. I wish we had a lot more time. I think I need you need to come back and and visit with me again and we can cover some more stuff.

Sara Kearns (48:41.673)
Yes, we'll have an adventure. We'll have another one, you know, for 80 years. Like, fast forward is for many of them.

Jason Elkins (48:45.55)
Let's do it in Africa. Let's yeah, let's do it in Africa. So what I'd like to do though is I want to make sure, are there any questions I should have asked, forgot to ask or anything that you want to make sure our listeners hear before we wrap it up?

Sara Kearns (49:01.929)
No, I think we've covered quite a lot of ground. It's an amazing holiday vacation. And as long as they know how to get hold of me, it's pretty simple.

Jason Elkins (49:13.038)
We're going to have your link link right to your website. It's going to be in the show notes. and then if they go there, they can figure out how to buy your books, right?

Sara Kearns (49:16.063)
Right. Right.

Sara Kearns (49:21.981)
Right, there's a book for sale online. You can email me at travelswithsara at gmail.com. Very easy.

Jason Elkins (49:24.814)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (49:29.582)
All right. So when people if somebody does want to book a safari with you, sounds like go to the website, you're obviously your contact information is on there. I noticed that you don't, you know, different companies do things differently. Some companies have these are our trips and choose which one you want. But I want to give you an opportunity to share with your with potential clients how you work.

Sara Kearns (49:37.759)
that right?

Sara Kearns (49:52.53)
No, it's basically I custom make my trips because most of them I go on. So obviously I want something that I know will work. I don't want page 22. yes, try that one. So you can go by yourself if you're feeling brave enough. It's always very safe. And I have people on the ground who take very good care of you. So you're not abandoned. You know, you get off the plane, you're

Jason Elkins (50:04.236)
Yeah, okay. So it's really customized.

Jason Elkins (50:20.248)
So when you say you should go on him, it sounds like you, so you're leading a group.

Sara Kearns (50:24.031)
Yes, and I'll take one, two or three people. I don't take ten. Very private. It's customized, it's special, it gives you the best possible experience rather than having fifteen people you don't know all wanting to sit in the same seat or...

Jason Elkins (50:28.11)
Okay. All right. All right.

Jason Elkins (50:40.28)
Are these, are these groups only private groups? Or, mean, if, one person wanted to go to Africa.

Sara Kearns (50:44.843)
Yeah, my thing is, one person, two people, a couple, it can be family. I've done quite a few grandparents, parents, and children. So that's a sort of five, six, seven people.

Jason Elkins (50:56.6)
But will you do a mixed group? I mean, if if somebody wanted that type of thing,

Sara Kearns (50:59.34)
I probably could if they knew each other.

Jason Elkins (51:03.668)
Okay, all right. So in that sense, it's not really mixed group, because they're probably just booking it together.

Sara Kearns (51:10.205)
Yeah, I think it's not a group travel type of trip because it's very personal. The guide that you have is an expert and it's hard for him to tell the same story to 15 different people. And if you're on

Jason Elkins (51:14.733)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (51:26.274)
Yeah. Yeah. That's, or you've got a large group and you've got more than one or two vehicles and it becomes people are having different experiences and yeah. All right.

Sara Kearns (51:32.287)
Yeah, it's chaos. There you go. not everyone's in want. we wanted to see what you saw. well, sorry.

Jason Elkins (51:41.164)
Yeah, it's actually much easier. It's much easier for the guides and the clients to have a better experience sometimes when you've got that small group that's not necessarily going to be comparing notes and sharing notes.

Sara Kearns (51:56.181)
Well, most vehicles will take six people, two, four, six in the back and I'll sit in the front with the guide. So a total of seven in the group is a full group for me.

Jason Elkins (52:02.51)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (52:06.464)
Okay. Yeah. And that's a, that's a nice experience. So, okay. Very cool. Well, at this point, at this point, anybody that's listening is, as I'm convinced as feels a connection with you. And if they want to go to

Sara Kearns (52:08.959)
But I do a lot of them with two and three people, myself.

Sara Kearns (52:20.945)
and get right online.

Jason Elkins (52:24.726)
Yep. They're going to be calling you as soon as they're done listening to this. If you are listening to this and you're going to reach out to Sarah, please mention that you heard her episode on the Big World Made Small podcast. We don't have any sort of commission agreement or anything like that. I don't get paid a dime.

Sara Kearns (52:39.647)
because you can make the world very small. Well, I say you can make the world very small, exposing the best places to go.

Jason Elkins (52:43.373)
What's that?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yep. That's, that's, that's the mission, create more connections, make the world feel a bit smaller. So Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the show and helping me with that mission. And I think we've, we've accomplished it today. So thank you so much. And I'll look forward to chatting with you again soon.

Sara Kearns (52:58.815)
Yes.

Sara Kearns (53:03.453)
and I look forward to another episode.

Jason Elkins (53:07.394)
We're going to do a whole series of interviews about Africa. We've already, what the audience, the audience doesn't know. We've already discussed that. So we'll see.

Sara Kearns (53:15.211)
As soon as I get back from this one, I'll give you a buzz. I've got one in February, I've got three, I've got March, I'm going to Southern Africa, and the quarter falls, and I've got people now wanting to go, knows where, I have to work it out before I go away. But it keeps me out of some trouble. Thank you.

Jason Elkins (53:17.578)
All right.

Jason Elkins (53:23.512)
You're busy.

Jason Elkins (53:31.598)
All right. Well, travels and we'll chat with you when you get back. I'm sitting here listening. It's like a thunderstorm going on outside and I'm pretty sure we're going to lose our connection any moment. So I better say goodbye now before we have to come back and record 14 seconds of goodbyes. Thank you, Sarah. Appreciate you. Talk to you soon. Bye.

Sara Kearns (53:37.205)
Yes.

Sara Kearns (53:45.909)
weather.

Bye.