Adventure Travel with Julie Fishman - Adventures Overland

Guest Bio

Julie Fishman is the Partner and General Manager for the U.S. at Adventures Overland, where she is leading the expansion of guided driving expeditions for American travelers. With more than 25 years of experience in corporate leadership, Julie built her career around delivering exceptional customer experiences—an approach she now brings to the world of adventure travel.

Her passion for exploration began early, shaped by immersive international travel and a lifelong curiosity about the world. Today, she combines that global perspective with hands-on experience as an off-road enthusiast and active member of a 4×4 community. Through her work, she helps travelers experience remote destinations in a unique way—behind the wheel, in small groups, and fully supported by expert logistics.

Julie is driven by the moments that surprise and delight her guests, constantly striving to exceed expectations and create meaningful, shared experiences. By introducing Adventures Overland to the U.S. market, she is opening the door for more travelers to discover the joy of the journey—not just the destination.

Show Summary

In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Julie about her journey from corporate executive to adventure travel leader—and how she’s helping bring a completely new style of travel to the U.S. market.

Julie shares how Adventures Overland creates fully supported, small-group driving expeditions across some of the most remote and culturally rich regions in the world. From navigating the deserts of Morocco to crossing the Mongolian steppe, these trips allow travelers to take the wheel while leaving the logistics to a highly experienced team. The result is a stress-free road trip that blends adventure, culture, and connection.

The conversation also dives into Julie’s personal story—from early life-changing travel experiences to building a career in tech and marketing, and ultimately finding her way back to travel in a meaningful way. Along the way, she reflects on leadership, mindset, and the power of choosing a path that aligns with both passion and purpose.

Big World Made Small guest features are invitation-only and selected based on story, experience, and fit with the show. Some guests support the show through paid production features, cross-promotion, referrals, or other partnerships. This helps keep the show free of third-party ads and interruptions while keeping the focus on real, story-driven conversations.

Learn more about the Big World Made Small Podcast and join our private community to get episode updates, special access to our guests, and exclusive adventure travel offers on our website.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the Adventure Traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back here today and excited to have our guest. We've got Julie Fishman. Julie is partner and general manager for the USA. Now here's where I want to make sure I say this right of Adventures Overland. So correct me, Julie. Is it partner and general manager USA Adventures Overland or some variation of the You can say the partner and general manager for the US for Adventures Overland. For the US. That's so much smoother. See, you should have a podcast because you're pretty good at this. Hey Julie, so so excited to have you here. We're gonna dig into your story. I want to kind of figure out, you know, what makes you tick, how you got from where you were to where you are now. But before we do that, let's tell everybody what Adventures Overland is.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

I am very excited to be bringing this new kind of adventure travel to the United States traveler. So what it is is guided driving expeditions across the globe. And that means that the travelers that come with us, let's say you arrive in Morocco, you're given the keys to a car, and you're placed in a caravan that's guided by a guide and an expert driver. Drive through all of the desert and remote areas that you wouldn't want to go to alone, all your hotel, food, accommodation, everything is taken care of, all your experiences. And the goal is to arrive and drive and have a good time all over the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Very well said. And very, very cool. Because I've, you know, there's I've got a bunch of questions. So I'm going to start with one is when you say you're given the keys to the car, let's say I'm a individual going on a group trip, because presumably these are group trips, right? With set departure type thing. So I show up and I'm a single, do I get my own car? Do I am I mixed with three or four other people? We take turns driving. What does that look like?

SPEAKER_02 1:52

So the trips are designed to have double occupancy. So either people who come with a partner, spouse, a few friends that come together. And then if somebody is a solo traveler, we do our best to ensure that there's either if they want to be paired up with another solo traveler, but still have separate hotel rooms, and we can make accommodations for individuals. So the goal is that there's typically two or four people in a car if people come in a group. And then that caravan then travels together, and people, yes, in the car can then share the driving if they want to.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Because I imagine myself, I would probably want to be paired with somebody. If I'm going to go on a driving adventure, I don't. If I wanted to go on a driving adventure by myself, I'd go on a driving adventure by myself. If I if I signed up for some sort of group trip, I'd probably want to have somebody to feel like I'm sharing the experience with, I guess. So I imagine that's kind of the case.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Yeah, sharing the car is one part of it. And it's also remembering that this the whole point of this kind of group travel is also that people are having experiences together. So it can be the cultural experiences along the way on the road. It can be the meals and the snacks and things that you stop and have, sitting around the fire and having a whiskey in the evening. So it's those experiences where strangers become friends through the whole process. So you're really with a group and a new little family versus just traveling on your own.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Do you envision or do you guys see people kind of mixing and matching as the week goes along? I imagine, especially like if you're traveling with your teenagers. You hope they you hope they find someone else they might want to ride with for a few hours or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

No, typically people stay in the cars that they're designated in, but they definitely see after by the second or third day, this gelling happens of the group and it happens every time. And either you um you find someone that has a like-minded hobby or you start to have conversations about your lives and find commonalities that there just seems to be these wonderful threads that people find with each other in these very small groups because it's usually a maximum of 16 people. So you kind of switch around where you're sitting in the meals or in the excursions together and suddenly the conversations just roll.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Are these people that generally would consider themselves car enthusiasts, auto enthusiasts, is that part of the draw? So, for example, in your marketing, do you go after people that are really into cars? Or is that kind of irrelevant? Because I mean, what I'm hearing you say is it's a road trip with other people. It's like a Yes. You're right.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

So the car enthusiast part is not required in the sense that what you do need to have is the desire to drive, because there's lots of people who just love road tripping and kind of getting out in the world, but you don't have to necessarily be a gearhead and someone who likes to fix their car on the weekends. But there are those who are the supercar enthusiasts. And we have trips that go up into the Alps or into Spain or in Dubai where you actually get a supercar like a Ferrari or Lamborghini to get to drive in the convoy. And so those are usually people who have like a passion for a particular brand or experience they want to have. So we have a mixture, but in general, you don't need to be in a driving enthusiast, but you do have to love driving. You have to want to be in a car and drive every day during the trip.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Well, of course, if you're traveling passenger. Yeah, exactly. If you're traveling with somebody, because I think you and I both know there's couples out there that have very clear, not rules, but it's just agreements, yes, pattern that one of them does the majority of the driving. I've I've been in a few relationships, and I'm usually the one that's driving because uh the people with me don't want to hear my comments when they're driving.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Yeah. It's just yes, and and I think that's actually such an important point because you can't have like a husband that gets his wife to go on this trip, and then the wife gets on the trip and she's like, What do you mean we're driving around every day? Like everyone has to be on the same page and understand how they're gonna handle things in the car. And not only that, it's it can be stressing because let's say you go to India or New Zealand and the driving's on the left side of the road, and the steering wheel's on the right side, and you have to be comfortable with that. And now going on these crazy mountain roads. So it may be only one person in your couple is willing to do that or interested, and then everybody goes together and learns how to do that.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

You know, I also just realized I remember back before everybody had GPS on their phones, people were starting to get those like little tom-toms and the you'd mount the GPS on the dashboard. And before that, when it was the maps, and there were a lot of fights in my in my relationships. I don't want to speak for anybody else, but I suspect someone's gonna relate to this. I remember like going into Manhattan, driving into Manhattan, and before we had the GPS, and and you know, I was the designated driver, and my wife at the time was the navigator. She's an amazing person. She was not a great navigator. And and she would say I was not a great driver, so I think we're both on the same page.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

But it was, you know, I'd like, I'm, you know, driving around in Manhattan. I'm like, I gotta figure out where the next turn is, and she's over there looking at the map upside down.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

And well, no, we take care of all that's the fun of our trips. All you have to do is have the radio on in your car, and somebody in the lead car is gonna go turn left. And everybody's gonna wait for each other, turn left. Or there's a big truck coming. Pull over to the side and take your turn, wait, and they'll pass, and then we'll go. And you don't have to think at all. No more maps.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

That's yeah, and that's what got me excited when you were describing. I was like, oh, because there's a lot of couples. The idea of road trip kind of sucks.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

Yeah, this takes that whole part of the equation out, yes, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

And and probably you guys have like regularly scheduled pit stops, so nobody absolutely has to sit there with their legs crossed and saying and you just get on the radio and saying, Hey, car number five needs a little break here. So that is so cool.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Uh that is and also there's really one of the fun things too about the maps thing is that you go out in a place called the Mongolian steep where it's just the grasslands and there's no roads. And so without the guide, how do you know you're if you just follow the sunset? Like, you know, so they they're gonna take you through these open wild spaces and you totally have a safety net and just get to drive and enjoy and look at the landscape.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

It's a road trip without stress.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Yeah, I mean, there's a hundred percent stress-free road trip.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Yeah, it's I I personally really like road trips, but I recognize other people in my life do not always enjoy road trips with me. And because of maybe I'm driving too fast or whatever, but you guys have you kind of removed all that stress, right? I love it.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

That's yeah, even the driving too fast because you can only go as fast as the guide car on the front.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Why are you passing the lead car?

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Right, exactly. Okay, this would be problematic.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

I forgot, we're in a group. This is not just me.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Also, we were in the Indian Himalayas, and all of a sudden there was this giant water past a puddle. Like the the the water the road was a bit underwater, and each car got to go as fast as they could through the water and make as big a splash as they could, and we had photography and videography of it, so everybody got a taste of them driving through this giant splashy puddle. So there's always fun to be had along the road, too.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

That's very, very cool. I I was in the military for a while and we did some convoys and long trips and and the Humbees driving you know 45 miles an hour sound on those knobby tires, and it was it was not it was not as much fun as what you're describing. Do you you mentioned that on specific trips you might have a Lamborghini or something really cool? Um on do guests have any choices? Do they like when you go rent a car, you get the you know, you get to the counter and they do the upgrade, and be you know, you thought you were getting a little yeah, I don't know, a small Honda or something, and you end up with in a pickup truck. Do does do all the participants basically have the same cars, same type of car, or are there upgrade options if somebody wants a car that's a little sportier? How does that work?

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Yeah, we've talked about that. That's something we're considering for the off-roading cars, if people want something more aggressive and if that's a fun thing to do. But for right now, other than the supercar drives where you get to select the car you want, we have chosen the right car for the environment and what's the best available in each country. So for instance, in India, we use the Mahindra Tar, which is like the their version of a Jeep Wrangler. And they're all four by four vehicles where we go. And then you would go to Morocco or Mongolia or Costa Rica, and you'd most likely have a Land Cruiser Prado, a four by four that has capable tires and and features on the car. So the goal is to be road ready and off-road ready wherever we go.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Right. And, you know, if one person's like, I want a really fast car, well, that's kind of irrelevant if you're a convoy. Well, you don't need to go any faster than anybody else.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

But it may be that somebody says, I want a Land Rover or I want something a little bit more fancy. And then, you know, sometimes those things can be accommodated, but it's not usual. Like it's typically we have picked the right car for the the purpose.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Aaron Powell So this is a logistic question because I can imagine if you had said the groups are what's the maximum group size?

SPEAKER_02 11:08

16. 16 people, so eight car.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Okay, so I imagine if you line up a fleet of cars that are all basically the same, you want them different colors. Like, how do you think about it?

SPEAKER_02 11:18

No, every every car. The cars get labeled and numbered. So everybody's assigned their number and they stay in that that order for the whole thing unless they get frustrated, like it's too much dust in the front, I gotta go in the back. We'll let people rotate. But typically the idea is you line up every morning and everybody's in there, they know how to get in line and get together, and then the convoy's ready to roll. So everybody has their place and they know what car number they are, so they can call out and say, Oh, we have a flat tire, something's going on, and they get help.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Because I was imagining the lunch stop. And after lunch, you get in, wait, wait, so that's not my this isn't my car.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

Hopefully the car doesn't start without your key. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

I've I've gotten into the wrong car a few times.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

So Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

All right. Interest interesting. Sounds, yeah, sounds a lot of is there anyway.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

The other thing that's really important. Yeah, what's really important about these trips is beyond just the driving in the cars, is the whole point is to get to immersive experiences and to be places that you wouldn't go otherwise. So that if you're in Morocco driving through the desert, you know, and on a convoy, you're gonna get to see um the mountains, the city, the ocean, the desert. You're gonna have to drive through the Sahara sand dunes. And it's things that you get to have tea with a family that lives in a cave up in a certain like hidden village that the guide knows about. So the goal is to get as close to the culture and the food and the place as you can. And doing that in these small groups and these small experiences is the whole goal is to get off the, you know, past the road as well. It's just a fun way to get around.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

You know, I completely get the concept of small groups, it makes it much easier. But I'm gonna ask you this because if I take 14 people and put in an 18-passenger van, or if I take 14 people and put them in eight cars, what's going through my head is finding parking and and just coordinating eight cars and stuff like that. It's almost, I would think, oh, well, if I just have one van, one bus, we can get into the same types of places, or maybe not. I don't know. You tell me.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

No, I it's absolutely something that's one of the magical skills of our operations and logistics team. And something about this company that is just fascinating is that well, so for they plan all of that. They know precisely where we're gonna go hour by hour, and they know where we're gonna park, and they won't go to a restaurant because they'll say, No, no, no, we know there's no parking at that one. We have to go to this one instead. And if somebody needs to stay out and watch the cars or make sure everything's okay, like all that's taken care of and it's predetermined, it's already known. So Adventures Overland has a trip that goes from Delhi to London every year. They have sell out every year and take 20 to 25 people for 65 days on the road. They cross 20 borders. And imagine for 65 days, all these people are going to need breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, bathrooms, hotels, cultural experiences, fuel in their car, and they do it like it's smooth as butter. Like it is unbelievable. These people are we are just a logistics machine. So all of that is is pre-thought of. You won't have to worry about it.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

It's pretty cool. When I think of like Mongolia, I'm imagining camping yurts, stuff like that. Are some of these trips or a lot of these trips involve? I don't know if I want to call it camping, glamping.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

It's glamping. Yeah. Think more like, you know, safari tent kind of thing, where it's that kind of a you have a private tent to yourself, the uh bathroom accommodations are all included and inside, and you have, you know, whatever you would need, a proper bed with sheets and pillows, and it's it's a it's a I would consider it glamping, but still in the desert. So if you went outside, you will heal the silence of the night and see the stars and just feel the warmth of the air and the sand.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Here's a just mostly a logistics question. Are these movable camps typically? I mean, I'm I know there are probably some or set camps, but do you have a team that like picks up packs up the camp and moves it to the next spot?

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Or No, no, no, that's not us. We definitely are going to places that are like a permanent glamping site in the desert and that we have arrangements there and they're known like in our itinerary. You can even look them up on the internet yourself and see the places so you can feel confident that they're like a real establishment.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Okay. Well, I'm not sure. Yeah, no, that's a that's a different trip.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

No, no, no, that that's just a different trip than ours, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Are there give me kind of you mentioned quite a few places? I'm not gonna try and repeat what you said because I'll I'll get it wrong, but are we talk just maybe say it again or just I want to get real clear on like what's the right thing? Well, we can talk about the general where all do you go?

SPEAKER_02 16:02

So if Adventures Overland is a 12-year-old company and they have logistics and have done trips in 50 countries on six continents. And so every year we rotate the different countries that we've chosen for that particular season. So for the US, we're just getting rolling. The global trips are all running now, and they have like 20 destinations for 26-27. Since we're new to the US market, September will be our first trips, and we'll have the Indian Himalayas and a supercar drive, and then in September, October, we'll have Morocco. And so then later in the year we'll have Iceland coming, and we're going to be adding uh Costa Rica, a desert trip in Argentina, and then 2027 Mongolia. So every year we'll keep adding trips and places in Spain or Croatia and all over the world.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

I suspect some of our listeners have picked up on it. You've mentioned the company in a way, in a way differently than somebody that founded the company mentioned.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Well, yeah, thank you for bringing that up. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

So, and you and I had a previous conversation, so I know a little bit, a little bit of the backstory. But um so it my understanding is you came on board to help develop the US portion. We mentioned that earlier, partner and general manager for the US. So let's touch on that a little bit. I don't know how to how to approach this, but I want to touch on that a little bit, like you know, how the company expanded in the US, how they connect with you. But then I want to go right back into the past, your childhood traumas, things like that, that caused you to we can avoid the traumas, but you're happy to talk about it. No, no, we cannot avoid the traumas. We all know that that's why we do the things.

SPEAKER_04 17:43

Well, I got some interesting stuff back there. Pull those skeletons out. All right.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Well, before we get to that, yeah, I just want to clarify that you were brought on board to help build the US, um, the US business. And why did they do the US and what makes what makes that market different than Mongolia or India or all these different places?

SPEAKER_02 18:03

So the company Adventures Overland is an India-based company, and it's has the two co-founders, Sanjay Madan and Tushar Agarwal, and also the chief operating officer, Prachur Tayal. The three of them are really the heart of the company, and they've planned and done all of the trips that the company offers. And so they have achieved, and I think this is a massive achievement. There is a billion people in India. They are the number one tour operator five years running in India. So this says something about the level of hospitality and achievement that they have in the country. So they've done so well there that they were ready to say, you know, how could we break into the US market? And we met by happenstance and started a conversation. And I raised my hand and said, Hey, I really think I could open the US market for you. And what that turned into was me partnering with them to, as a partner and also to redesign the trips in a way that was just changed enough that Americans would like it differently than other countries. Because we know that each culture has a different way of traveling or a different needs that need to be met. And so I know Americans like a slightly slower pace. They do not want to be rushed from one place to another. They want to be able to enjoy and immerse where they are and do a shorter distance and get more out of it than a longer distance chasing just driving all day.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

I also know I gotta ask you this because I want to be able to track what you're saying. Because I in my mind, there's two different things. There's selling trips to people that are from the US, and then there's offering trips inside the US. So I guess the question is who were the customers before? Who's going to Mongolia? Who's going to India? Who's going to be on these trips?

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Yeah. It's been Indians and Europeans going on these trips. And now we're saying, okay, we want to offer this to the US market. And so that means that Americans can travel abroad to these other locations, but still with the same footprint of logistics magic that they already have. So if I'm going to Mongolia or the Supercar Alps trip, I know that they already have the hotel relationships. They have all the operations nailed down, and we're just going to alter it slightly for the U.S. palette, but it's the same locations that others might go.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

I think I was lost.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

Thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Clarify that.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Thank you for bringing me because honestly, what I thought we were doing was setting up trips in the Western US. And we're going only abroad. So when you say opening up the US market, you literally is get Americans exposed to what you guys do and get them to go have these adventures with you where you're already doing adventures.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Yes. So if you went on your website, you'd see these international destinations. And those are the places that we want to take Americans on those trips.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

It it makes perfect sense because I'm thinking you want to sell trips to the American West to people that live in the US. And they kind of just do that on their own typically.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

Yeah, and they have their own cars, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Yeah. So thank you. So I I I'm always happy to ask the dumb questions so our listeners don't. All right. Now I'm tracking with you. All right. That's that's very, very cool. All right. So that makes sense. So they brought you on to get get these experiences in front of the U.S. audience, but also work with them to make sure that the experiences match the expectations. Because you're absolutely right. You know, different people that grow up in Europe or Southeast Asia or anywhere, they just they expect different things.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

So that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Interesting. Okay. Now let's go to the childhood trauma. So what I've what I've learned from having quite a few conversations now on this show and just in life in general, is that most people that work in tourism, but especially something a little different like what you guys are doing, usually there's there's a weird path or something that they took to get to that. Point. And usually I say, well, tell us where did it all start? And they'll go back, well, if you, you know, they go back to COVID. And I'm like, no, it started before COVID. I can go back to age 10 for sure. All right. Let's let's go to age 10. What were you doing at age 10? And um, what were you doing at age 10?

SPEAKER_02 22:16

So I consider myself a very lucky human being for this. The what happened to me when I was 10. That my uh it's a cute story, too. So my dad had an opportunity to invest in some, he he got some like he went to a talk and they they were offering an investment in gold. And he really believed this was a good investment. And he begged my grandfather to invest too, and my uncle convinced my grandfather not to do it. Yada, yada, yada. Six months goes by, and my dad ends up with uh like $25,000 in his pocket, and he decides that he's gonna use this money to take our whole family.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

So wait, wait, wait, wait. He invested and he ended up with $25,000 in his pocket. How much did he invest?

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Whatever happened with this gold investment, grandpa didn't get the $25,000. Yes. So the investment went well, and he ended up with the five.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

It wasn't well, well crap, I lost everything. I only have $25,000 left. We should go on vacation.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

The opposite. Yeah, he made all this money. And so my parents were crazy, and they had three girls, eight, ten, and twelve. So it was five of us plus my mom's best friend, Nancy. And we all went to Europe for three months together. And we arrived in uh Luxembourg and went to the Volkswagen dealership and picked up uh Volkswagen Vanigan. And uh six of us traveled around 14 countries for three months and saw everything. And this was when there was a book called Europe on $15 a day, and there was like, you know, something that was still feasible. And they got they went to this um travel agent in Beverly Hills that created a play-by-play book, like turn left at the tree kind of thing. And everywhere we were gonna go for the next three months was in these two booklets, and we stayed in pensions and we camped a little bit, and we got to see Europe through, you know, as a little kid, I was 10 years old. And you think taking a 10-year-old, what a ways, taking him to the Louvre in front of the Mona Lisa. Well, we grew up on Tom and Jerry, Mona Lisa was in the Tom and Jerry cartoons and all this classical music. And I remember my sister and I standing there in front of the Mona Lisa at eight and 10 years old, going, wow, you know. So we we got, I got definitely got the travel bug from that experience. And then when I was 12, I also my mom encouraged me to go on an Australian equestrian exchange. And so I got to go to live on a farm with another group, with a group of riders, and we were in Australia for for 12 days riding around.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

What is wrong with your parents? They sound fascinating, they sound super cool and a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

They are interesting people, yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

But do you know the term hippie?

SPEAKER_02 24:52

What's what's so funny is when my parents met, so my my they both grew up in Gary, Indiana.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

And my dad was still so straight-laced when they met that he wore black pants and a white shirt every day. Like it was just as simple as could be. And he had gone to a master's degree at USC and then went back to Gary and then was so sick of the winters. My mom's family had already started to migrate to California, and he's like, that's it. We're going to California. I'm going back there. That's it. And boy, did they get into all the nuts and fruits and berries that you could possibly get into in California? So they were not like the rest of their family for sure. How did I know that?

SPEAKER_03 25:30

I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

I think it was the van. Too much sunshine. When you said the Volkswagen Van again or whatever, and three months traveled around in Europe. That's so, so, so cool. Did who was responsible for the holding the playbook and saying, okay, turn left, turn right? Because we were talking about the city.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

So my dad did most of the driving, and I think my mom was a pretty good navigator. And there were a few hairy situations where, like, you're in somewhere in Rome or Italy and Florence, and the street my dad ended up on was not meant to have a vanigan on it, and like you pull the wind, the mirrors in, and everybody's freaking out and screaming at him as he's trying to get through the street. Yeah. There were a few moments.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Were your were your parents pretty good natured? Like, did do you remember like fights between them?

SPEAKER_02 26:15

I mean, I don't ever remember my parents fighting ever. Like that was it. I'll be honest with you. You asked about childhood traumas. They never fought until they divorced when I was 24. Then all of a sudden that was that.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

So your childhood your childhood dramas all came at 24.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Yeah. And I wish. And then, but but that was actually the the happiest memories I have of having time with my sisters. That we fought a lot as little kids, but that three months, I just remember the most peaceful of our whole family experience. Yeah. And it was very nice.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

She's on my side of the seat, or so she crossed the line. And because I remember that. I remember family members, usually my grandparents. Don't make me stop this car. Yeah, right. You know, if I have to stop this car, if I have to tell you one more time, I will stop this car. And it's like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

There was just enough room in the van to not have to touch each other.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

And all the soft-sided bags were in the back part, and we were all little girls enough that we could actually lay on top of the bags and take a nap. So we were able to find space in the van.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

That is that's a big life-changing event. I get that, you know, and um that's part of what's so much fun of having this podcast is I get to hear stories like that all the time. It's really cool. We all have our own. Yep. I spent my summers traveling the US with my dad, you know, and my brother in a pickup truck, and we didn't have as much space as you did. There were three of us and the dog, and if it was really cold, me and my brother had to go in the back because the dog had to stay up front because the dog couldn't dress up in warm clothes, and we could, whatever. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Yeah, you know, you know, we all know where the dogs are in the pecking order of life. Way up here.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Yeah, yep. So all right, very, very cool. So tell me more a little bit about Australia. You went by yourself, they shipped you off.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Yeah, so it was a group, I think there were like 10 or 16 of us teenagers, and you're I was almost a teenager, and we each got placed on a farm in just it was like uh quite far in New South Wales, far outside of Sydney, and we were all in these pony club expeditions, and you we got to show and we got to ride motorcycles and have experiences in Australian school and stuff, and it was it was very cool.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Do you remember the name of the town or the community that you stayed in?

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Yeah, it was Ningen was the area, and the homody was the little teeny town, and I've tried to look it up again, but it's like such a small place, like I can't quite find that. And there was like these people had like 27,000 acres of wheat. I mean, they had massive space there, it was incredible.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

That's cool. I was in house I was in Australia at the age of 12. I'm a little old for you, so it wasn't the same time. But yeah, in New South Wales, we were in a small town named Canoundra. And it was uh kind of a ballooning uh, you know, my dad was a balloon pilot, that's why we would travel in the summers with him. But yeah, he got a job flying balloons for a company there, so I was you know at 12. So I I can relate to what you're saying. Yeah, you know, we were there for maybe about a month or so and just interacting with the locals. It's probably my life-changing event. I had a lot of weird stuff happen, but I but I remember honestly, my brother and I got there. I was 12, he was 11, and the local girls really like to talk to us because our accents. Yeah, and these girls were just like, say my name. Okay, say my name. Now it's my it's my turn, say my name. And I think that was the moment in my my previous little boy brain. Little boy brain was these uh these women that don't live in the US are kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Yeah, that's right. I like being interesting, being interesting.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

So it's it's you know, it's like so. Several of my first girlfriends were the exchange students, you know, back when I was in the US, I was like, oh, there's an exchange student, she'll like me. Yeah, so yeah. That's awesome. Those those things leave a mark, don't they? So all right, so what else? What else was what did at that point in time did you kind of did you have ideas? Like if I'd asked you what do you want to do when you grow up? Do you have do you have any records?

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Well, probably like you know, normal thing, like I want to be a vet. Like I I didn't have any idea what I wanted to do. And then it will, and my travel life got more interesting from there. If you want to go next.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Tell me more.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

So I was I'm Jewish, and part of being Jewish, usually if you're in a youth group or something, and at the age of 17, I chose to go. Is there's a trip where you can go to Israel for a summer for six weeks and you travel around and see the country. And what I chose to do was go the first week to Poland and see the concentration camps and then go to Israel afterwards. And that again was another very formative as a human being being abroad and the history that we were studying of both places and just the experience that it really um it had a very profound effect on me. And that was at 17. And then by the time I was 23, 19 and 23, I spent more summers in Israel. And then by the time I was 24, I actually emigrated to Israel and met my husband there and lived there for seven years. So being there is part of my travel journey, and then the work I did there, I worked in tech companies and got to travel all over Europe for my work too. So it was this constantly ready to leave. And I was born with my passport in my back pocket, apparently.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Very cool. What did you have formal education after high school or or because there's so many different ways to get education, so I gotta say formal.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

Yes. So I was I was an odd human being that I did not, I did not like high school. I did not socialize there. My social life was elsewhere. And I took the GED after 11th grade and then went straight into community college and eventually got a bachelor's degree, struck just had to fight through it, struggling with uh city college and then on to a cow state, and eventually got my bachelor's degree in political science. And then a couple years ago, I actually got my master's degree. I have an MBA as well.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

So I'm a much better student now than I was in my education and life education because exactly. I'm a lot smarter now, I think. Yeah, right. That's uh it's it's I don't know if it's surprising, but I can tell you after having a lot of conversations with people that work in this business, there's a lot of them didn't really enjoy school.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Yeah. Oh, I'm a scrapper for sure.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

I can think of a a a handful of names right off the bat that never even finished high school and are very, very successful working in the tourism business. Yeah, it's it's an interesting, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

I like that.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Okay, so you said you were working for the tech companies in Israel. Well, I want to dig into a little bit about like when you first really moved there. You had traveled quite a bit more than a lot of people at that age.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

But what was your takeaways from moving to a new place? What were the challenges, the struggles, and the things that you might want to share with somebody that's thinking about doing something like that? And every country's different, I get that.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

But there's a lot of similarities. There's some yeah. The first thing is the why. I'm not a soft, delicate flower. And so going to Israel, there's a lot more of their wildly humorous, they're assertive and upfront, and everything's like, let's just get to brass tacks. And it just suited me. Like I just felt like I could be myself there. And maybe I've softened since then because I had enough of it. But it was like for me at that age, like I was really happy to be in that like really forward environment. It really suited me. And so the challenges though were definitely language. Being on a bus, and a man kept saying me the same over and over and over again, such any, such and it, such any. And he just was trying to say the other side, like I needed to be on the bus on the other side of the street. And I'm like, I have no idea what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

You're just you're just smiling at him.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

Oh, thank you. Please help me. What are you saying?

SPEAKER_02 34:02

So the littlest thing, like just trying to get on the bus going in the right direction, is challenging. Um, and then not finding the foods you want, not finding the housing that you need, and then just the the it takes such grit and tenacity to get through the cultural humps and those kind of stages in in any kind of move to another country, unless you go with a company and they get you all set up. In general, it it definitely takes some grit and tenacity, and you find people eventually.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Had you already met your husband when you moved there?

SPEAKER_02 34:36

No, I got very lucky that because of the immigration process to go to Israel, that you're if you're Jewish, you can get set up ahead before you go. So you do a bunch of paperwork here in the US. And I stayed at a place to study Hebrew for five months called an Ulpan. And you get a room and board, three meals a day, and five hours a day of study. And it was with all like-minded people of like 21 to 31 who'd had some or all of college. So it was like, I think 110 of us, and there were nine couples got married, so it's a little bit of a breeding ground. They kind of know what they're doing. And then my husband had emigrated from Argentina and was in the same place studying. So that's where we met, and and we've been together ever since.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Did this would you call it a school? I can't remember the term you used.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Yeah, like yeah, yeah, so it's like an intensive study, a Hebrew study.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

And did they like have like looking back at it? You you kind of joked that they knew what they were doing, and all these married all these couples came out of it. But when you look back at it, do you did you did they actually like hold social events? Was it? Oh, totally.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

There were dances with beer, yeah. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

All right.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Interesting. Well, that's cool. I wish I could go back in time and find a place like that. That sounds actually pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

It was, it was a really it was another amazing experience, yeah. And I still have friends from that period living together.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

All right. That's uh all right, very, very cool. So, what was the next step?

SPEAKER_02 36:00

So the the next thing after living there was being able to travel for work. And that was an outlet for me to see the world. And the kind of people I got to work with were these very bright engineers doing some of the most cutting-edge work. The first company I worked for was a DSL company, the first company to ever put DSL out into the world. So, all those young folks who are like, Well, we have cable and uh fiber optics today. Well, DSL was a form of vast internet, the first one actually. And it was very exciting to work for a company that had such a broad reach. And I was responsible for putting together some of the most complex trade show booths that you could imagine. That I was sitting in Israel taking out 10 hard drives, shipping all the computers and everything to a show in Germany, putting them back in and delivering them to 10 different companies that were physically wired to our booth from across like Deutsche Telekom and these big companies, wired straight back to our booth. And we were acting like there was actually internet happening live through the show. And so then having guests and customers come through the booth, and I was responsible for building the booth and all of the everyone having hotel rooms. So it was a um, I was marketing was was my background. So that was one big job. And those engineers had mostly come from the army and were communications experts. And so I learned how much I loved working in engineering environments and that it was something I could learn quickly, that I had an aptitude for it. And I didn't know that because math and I were not friends and I wasn't a great student, but it turned out that this stuff made sense to me. These people made sense to me.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

That's kind of the problem. I don't have a solution necessarily, but with education, you know, a formal education is so often everybody kind of does the same thing and the same goals, and you're all kind of headed in the same direction, and you can think, oh, I'm not very smart because I'm having a hard time keeping up. But then you find that thing, and it's like, holy cow, I'm I'm really good at this. And I really, really like it. And that's definitely been my situation. Um, all right.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

So you so that that started a big career for me in marketing. Yeah. So the next company in Israel was called M Systems, and they basically invented the thumb drive that we all know today. They also invented a chip that is in every one of our phones, and they were bought by Sand Disk eventually. And they that was also like working for a company that was growing. There were never enough desks and enough space because we were growing so fast. And that was just a also a very thrilling experience to travel for them and do their trade shows and all kinds of stuff all over Europe and write data books and just be involved with the engineers there as well.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

You're one of those people, I take it, I think, that really needs to have stuff going on around her.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

If there's not, I'll make stuff happen.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

I'm not gonna say ADHD or ADD, I have no idea about you.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

No, no, it's just the power of energy. Like, I just gotta go. Like there's gotta be stuff going on.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

I love that. I love and that's something else I notice in this business. It's like it's hard for some people to just kind of sit still a little bit, and that's awesome. That's very cool. Um, all right, so walk me through going from working, doing marketing tech stuff with all these engineers, and now we're having conversations about road tripping, which seems very appropriate. I see the connection.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

I think it happens to most of us, especially if you have a sea change of career in your life, that all of it makes sense. So, my career then coming after Israel came back to the United States, built a career working for either I invented a gardening product, I worked for major brands like FLEAR and Deckers, who makes Ug, and I worked for the UG team. And all of it starts to coalesce into this body of experience that you get to decide how you want to apply it. And so when travel came up on accident, that my husband and I went, I I had worked at a tech company called Ship, um, excuse me, Edge Impulse, and they had a buyout. They were bought by Qualcomm. And my pick my time ended with them, and we had an exit. And I was able to think to myself, like, what do I what do I want to do now? And so we were in Argentina and went on a four-wheel drive one-day trip. And we are in a four-wheel drive club here in Santa Barbara and go all over the state and just driving around and camping. So I said, you know, I really think I could make trips where we could take people to Argentina and do off-road adventures. Well, let's try to see if I can put it together. So put back on my marketing cap, let's do some market validation. Who else is doing this? What's going on? And that's how I found Adventures Overland. And I called them to maybe partner with them and see how we could maybe do something together. And eventually it turned into the conversation of, oh, well, we are thinking about opening the US market. And I raised my hand going, wait a minute, I can do that.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

That is so much easier than both opening the market and providing the actual experiences, the on-the-ground stuff. Yeah, it sounds like a great partnership.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

And so the it got to use all of my skills. The MBA I had just gotten, it takes care of all of my marketing skills and all of the personal skills and the loving to do hospitality and take care of people, that it all just coalesces beautifully together. And then having them as these partners in my, you know, like they're so capable and so wonderful as human beings that I kept looking, you know, you go into a partnership with people and I was digging for red flags. I was like, there's gotta be a red flag here somewhere. And I just never found one. And to this day, smooth sailing, they're amazing human beings. I feel lucky. Like I'm so lucky that our paths crossed.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

How long, how long ago was that?

SPEAKER_02 41:40

A bit over a year now. So like uh about uh 15, 16 months now. And we have like, you know, the partnership was solidified and all the bank accounts open and all that by December last year. So since December, we've been, you know, hitting the hitting the road.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Okay, very cool. What did your husband was he supportive? Is he still your husband? How's it working out?

SPEAKER_02 42:02

No, I am the the luckiest woman in the world that my husband is beyond supportive. And and not only that, I couldn't I couldn't be where I am without him. That we are definitely the the kind of couple that each one of us takes our turn swinging one direction and helping each other. And and I I definitely couldn't be where I am without his uh support and agreement. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

This is the same guy you met in school back in Israel.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've been at yeah, this the in in July, I think we'll be married 29 years. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Yeah. So is he I heard you say he's supportive, and it sounds like he's into off-roading and went to Argentina with you on this trip. And is is he well? I'm just gonna go to the city.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

So he's he's yeah, he's he's Argentinian. So we and and we go and visit his family in Argentina every year. That's one of our things we try to do. And he is he has a degree in chemical engineering and he has a master's in physics for semiconductors, and he works in a company here called Teledyne FLEAR. People know of FLEAR cameras, thermal cameras, and he is responsible for a line of production for some of the most complex thermal cameras in the world. And so he has a team that he supports to to manufacture portions of that device. So you have to also very engineery.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

Yeah, I know. So you've got somebody that you can get your your geek on with.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Yes. Oh my God, here's a great story. So we were at this steakhouse, and the two of us are having this like really ridiculously technical conversation over dinner, and both of us are so immersed in it, we're looking at each other, and this older couple is next to us, and they go, Excuse me, are you two married? And we're like, Yeah, and they're like, and this is what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_03 43:44

We just geek out all the time.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Well, at least we have something to talk about. Because there's a lot of married couples that sit at a restaurant and don't even talk about such nerds. That's pretty cool, actually. Um And that's that stimulation I was kind of touching on earlier is having stimulation. Yeah. You know, whether that's experiences or having conversations. And so I'm I'm not surprised. You mentioned earlier you liked the engineer stuff and you're hanging around engineers and yeah, okay. That makes makes perfect sense. Now he's gonna listen to this. Does he have the personality where the two of you can lead a trip to somewhere and he would actually want to be around guests in the in the field and and having those conversations, or is he more like, you know what, Julie, I think uh you should just go lead this trip. I'll stay home.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

So he he definitely is more of a homebody, but he's definitely happy to go. We've talked about a couple of trips that would be fun for him, maybe to go on. Like he's definitely going to the Iceland in 2027, that's already decided, and an Argentina trip would be great to have him as part of the trip. But uh he's also got an incredible sense of humor, and wherever he goes, he just keeps everybody laughing. Yes, and so that's a really fun part of he just like keeps things light and silly, you know, and he's always telling me, like, seriously, just like chill, but it's gonna be all right.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

And engineers, as well, in my experience, you have more experience with engineers, but engineers don't always bring that skill set to the table as well. You know, with uh you know, the I think they have great personalities generally, but yeah, no, no, no, yeah, he's not the rigid type.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

All right, that's that's super cool. And what about other other family around you? Anybody in any of this stuff?

SPEAKER_02 45:32

So I I have a sister here in Santa Barbara, and she and her husband have a business that they do take people on trips around the world for like teaching mosaic and teaching art classes. So they kind of have their own thing going on. And then my younger sister, she would be miserable in a car on the side of a cliff in the Himalayas. Like she would not like that at all. No. Her husband would like it, but she would not. So no. So my and and my kids are I have two boys that are 23 and 25, and they're just kind of in their own worlds right now, that that's just not on their radars.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Did they presumably they spent some time overseas? I haven't done all the math, and I'm not gonna ask any math questions because you already said you don't like math. But did they so they grew up being exposed to different cultures and and some travel, presumably, right?

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Yeah, they got to go to a few places. They've been to Mexico, Argentina, they've been to Israel. So a little bit, not quite as much as like what I went through growing up, but uh, we I definitely think that they have like enough exposure that they can decide what they like or don't like or want to, you know, experience. And one of them is more of the a homebody, and the other one is really influenced by just being around his close friends and comfort. So neither one of them is like looking to go globe hopping.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

Interesting. Yeah, it's it's always interesting how if it's they're very different. Personality. Yeah, exactly. I mean, the personality is a really, really, really big part of 100%. Yeah, of course it is, right? So what are you excited about? I mean, obviously you've got the things going with the business, uh, you know, expanding in the US and all that stuff. What other kind of stuff has got you excited right now?

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Well, as far as the business, the thing that I like the most about this is it's the happiest I've ever been at work. Well, and that for me is just such a pleasure that there's just been some difficult bosses or situations or being laid off. You know, life happens when you're in corporate America. And it is just so happy the situation I'm in. So that joy like goes with me everywhere in my life. And I think the the ability to take time and go out to Death Valley or go off-roading and those kind of things are really big things that are important to me, and we're bringing other friends with us and dragging people around, you know, that the those kind of joyful things are good.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

That's that's very, very cool. We discussed quite a bit. We definitely got a fascinating story about you, learned a lot about um Adventures Overland and just and stuff. But I'm curious, like, what do you think I forgot to ask you? What do you think, what do you wish I would have asked you, or what do you want to share with our listeners, either about you, life in general, yeah, road trips, whatever, before we wrap up.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

I think life in general a thing about me that I've it took me a long time to get to and develop, and is really a prevalent part of my life is the idea of manifesting or deciding what our own destiny is, and meaning that energy flows where attention goes and and our thoughts, you know. And if I want to say negative things, guess what I'm gonna get? And I'm no one's gonna be as mean to me as I am, you know. So why not be nice to myself? And I think that at the age I'm at and the experiences I've had and where I'm at right now wouldn't have happened if I hadn't decided that positive thinking was one of the most important tools that I needed to hone in my life. And that that applies to everything in the end. It's how I treat my children, it's it's how I am with my husband, it's how I am with my family, or it's how I am out in the world and how I look at like traveling, you meet people with some different life experiences, and I'm a highly empathetic person. So, how do I see people in poverty and not look at them like I'm supposed to fix them, but just share my light with them and appreciate them and say, wow, that's what that person's going through, and I'm gonna be kind to them and I'm gonna listen and see what their experience is. I don't have to fix anything, but I can be kind out in the world. And so I think it's that kind of light and energy that each of us has inside. And I I I just encourage everybody to like find find that way to that part of themselves the best they can. And we all have our own journey if we can get there or not, because it's not I don't judge anyone who never gets there. Some people are just angry for the rest of their life because it was just so hard, you know.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

Sometimes life is really hard, and I I totally appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 49:55

Was was there a moment that you can recall that got you thinking this way, or is you have you always been like that? It sounds like you've kind of just you mentioned at this age, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

Was there something that shifted that it was so I think it was a estrangement that my younger son started to have some real trouble with me and we were like coming to a head, and he was young, he was like 17, and it was really a problem. And I had to decide at that point if my past and my life history and my frustrations were going to be so important to me that I was gonna hold on to those, that I was gonna lose him, and that wasn't gonna be it. And I think that was the beginning of the journey of turning over a different side and deciding that there must be another way. And he and I are much closer and finding our way together and can can have nice conversations. And I'm so grateful for my willingness. He did nothing wrong, and that like, you know, he really didn't do anything wrong. And so I can only say my willingness to show up as a better person and a better parent and being willing to go down that path and let go of some old nonsense or story I was telling myself has been life-changing, you know, really.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I I I get that. I, you know, I feel that the chills I've, you know, similar story with my son. You know, and it's yeah, it it really caused me to I gotta figure my stuff out because these stories and these these approaches to parenting that I'm carrying with me because I learned them from somewhere else.

SPEAKER_03 51:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

And it's like turns out and and I'm not knocking my parents, uh, you know, I mean it's it's every parent is an amateur by definition. There are no professional parents. We're all amateurs. And if we figure it out, it's usually too late by the time we figure this out.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

But it but but it's not too late, period. It's too late for the parenting part, but it's not too late, period.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

But you know, so like now my son's 19, we've got the best relationship I've ever had with him. And you know, six, seven years ago, I was I have to be right all the time, and I will bend this child to my will.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

Yeah, right, and and and then the the the fixations that we get into is just so silly.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

Just food. You know, I had so many fights about food, about whether he would eat all of his food on his plate or or how he ate or what he ate. And it was just like we had so many fights over food, you know. And you know, I remember I was in, I was, I was getting much better, but I we were in Malaysia, Penang Island, Malaysia. Incredible food, like some of the best food in the world. And this kid's like, I I don't want to eat that anymore, I just want to go to McDonald's. So this was the last like real struggle I had with him. Like, no, we're not going to McDonald's. We didn't come all the way here to go to McDonald's. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, fall with him over that. And he's like, Well, if I can't go to McDonald's, I'm not going. So you're gonna have to go without me. So I'm like, okay, fine. So I went to McDonald's. I was like, I'm going to McDonald's. Screw him, he's not in charge. And as I'm sitting at McDonald's, I'm thinking, this is so dumb. Why am I fighting with him over not going to McDonald's when clearly I'm willing to go to McDonald's? Because I'm at McDonald's, and the only difference is I'm at McDonald's alone. And he's back in the room. And this is a moment we could be sharing, you know. Why am I so damn stubborn sometimes?

SPEAKER_01 53:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

And I think that was the last. Okay, no more food fights. No, we're not gonna fight about food. I have an opportunity to travel in Southeast Asia with my son, and I'm gonna get in a fight over what we're gonna eat for lunch. It's just crazy.

SPEAKER_04 53:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

No, I totally feel you, and then it's that that willingness to have that moment and be like, all right.

SPEAKER_03 53:38

All right, I'm being silly here, I'm not doing this anymore.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

But you know, it goes back to you know, growing up with a father that you did not order anything to drink at a restaurant. If you it was water, it was and oh really, you know, and no real reason other than that's just kind of the way he was raised. And so like, you know, and my son still to this day sits down. The first thing he orders is a you know, a soft drink or something, and I just I I you know just like, okay, whatever. You know, I'm not gonna fight with him over that. But anyway, um, yeah, life life is good. I love your love your take on it and um happy you shared that.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

All right, Julie, we need to uh collaborate on some stuff in the future. We need to go on a road trip somewhere. Oh right. That's me trying to get myself invited.

SPEAKER_03 54:22

I hear ya.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

I'm a pretty good driver. Just ask my ex wife. All right, you're on my list. Julie, this was so much fun and look forward to seeing you again soon.

SPEAKER_02 54:35

No, thank you for letting me share the story about Adventures Overland and and sharing my my journey. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

It was it was a lot of fun. We'll chat again soon. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Good talking.