My Apologies
Prayer to the Saints - Is it in Origen? | My Apologies Response
With all the back and forth on the subject, I decided to read Origen On Prayer for myself. I have a ton of respect for both Gavin Ortlund and Joe Heschmeyer. I really enjoy listening to their content and I hope that this can be a helpful contribution to this discussion!
This video essentially makes the following two arguments in regards to On Prayer:
1) Origen does not primarily use the word "Saint" to mean either Saints in Heaven or both Saints on Earth and in Heaven. When he intends Saints in Heaven he is specific with his language.
2) When Origen has the clear opportunity to clarify that Saints in Heaven can be prayed to - that is, when the context is such that Saints in Heaven are clearly being discussed - he communicates that they may pray on our behalf but not that we should contact them directly.
Of course, just because Origen does not teach prayer to the Saints does not mean that it did not exist in the early Church. That question is outside the scope of this video. But for my part, at least I do not think that Origen can be rightly used to prove that they did.
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With all the back and forth on the subject, I decided to read Origen On Prayer for myself. I have a ton of respect for both Gavin Ortlund and Joe Heschmeyer. I really enjoy listening to their content and I hope that this can be a helpful contribution to this discussion!
This video essentially makes the following two arguments in regards to On Prayer:
1) Origen does not primarily use the word "Saint" to mean either Saints in Heaven or both Saints on Earth and in Heaven. When he intends Saints in Heaven he is specific with his language.
2) When Origen has the clear opportunity to clarify that Saints in Heaven can be prayed to - that is, when the context is such that Saints in Heaven are clearly being discussed - he communicates that they may pray on our behalf but not that we should contact them directly.
Of course, just because Origen does not teach prayer to the Saints does not mean that it did not exist in the early Church. That question is outside the scope of this video. But for my part, at least I do not think that Origen can be rightly used to prove that they did.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
To support and join our community sign up on Locals: https://myapologies.locals.com/
Connect with me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MyApologiesPod