Health Care Contracts: Strategies for Success

Kristin Riviello, Account Relationship Manager, CobbleStone, and Michael Donnelly, Sales Enablement Specialist, CobbleStone, discuss health care contract management and best practices for dealing with the challenges that occur in this area. They cover the health care contract lifecycle, negotiation strategies, and the role of artificial intelligence. Sponsored by CobbleStone.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hello, everybody.

SPEAKER_02: 0:18

Thank you so much for joining our podcast today. My name is Kristin Riviello. I am the Account Relationship Manager at Cobblestone Software.

SPEAKER_01: 0:28

And hello, everyone. Thanks again for joining. My name is Mike Donnelly. I am a part of the sales management team here at Cobblestone. And to give you a quick little background about Cobblestone in general, we are a contract management software provider as well as e-procurement. And that's going to be related to a lot of the things that we're going to be talking about today regarding just general challenges in the healthcare world when it comes to contract management. And if you're not too familiar with software as either of ourselves or elsewhere, we're Hopefully, this podcast today is going to give you some insight on exactly what's out on the market.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01

All right. So we thought to kick it off today before we jump into our podcast topic, which is really just going to be a general discussion around contract management in the healthcare space. We thought it might be a little fun to kind of break the ice a bit. So since we are in the heat of summer at the moment, we thought it might be nice to just kind of kick it off by talking about a favorite summer memory. So I guess, Mike, I'll throw it to you first. Do you have a favorite summer memory?

SPEAKER_01: 1:33

Favorite summer memory. I mean, I would say, you know, as a kid and now in my adulthood, I do often go down the shore. I go to the beach every other or every summer. I used to go every summer. Now it's like sporadic other than like little day trips. As far as a specific memory, I don't think I have too much of a specific one. I just, I guess I can call back to my childhood when I had my summers off. So I That's about it. I'll be honest. That in itself is a memory. I haven't had one of those in about a decade, a little bit more than a decade. I think that was my fondest memory is just the free time. I

SPEAKER_02: 2:15

think that's what every kid, like why every kid loves summer. That summer off is just so nice. It's like no school, it's the best. For me, as somebody that actually lives at the shore or at the beach, for anyone that's not from New Jersey, yeah, I don't tend to go to the beach a lot in the summer. And Mike will probably like laugh a bit at my summer memory because my summer memory, my favorite summer memory actually happened happened last summer because I'm a big music fan. And I went to see one of my favorite artists, Bruce Springsteen, and I got to be front row at the show. It was General Mission. I put in my time. They sang with him. So that was just like, it'll never get better than that for a summer memory. So that's it for me. I

SPEAKER_01: 3:06

mean, that's up there. I don't know if it was any colder than the beach now. I'm sure it was a little warm there, but... Hey, that sounds like a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02: 3:16

It certainly was. It was a good time. But yeah, so that was just our little icebreaker that we thought might be good to kind of kick things off at the top here before we got into the nitty gritty of today's discussion. So like I said, Mike and I are going to talk about just kind of overall, you know, contract lifecycle management in healthcare. And I think we would be remiss if we didn't kind of kick it off by talking about just the overall contract lifecycle as it relates to healthcare and healthcare contracts in general. So I guess I'll kind of start it off by I think so many things kick off by that initial request coming in, you know, and sometimes it might not be requests for contracts, but it can be requests for amendments or requests for renewals or, you know, even unrelated to contracts overall, but it can all kind of filter in through that initial request. So I think that stage kind of sets the tone overall for the whole contract lifecycle in general is having that, you know, a good foundation to what your initial request is and what your needs are going to be. to be. And then the always fun kind of, you know, authoring and generating the contracts just in general. I know a lot of times, and we'll talk about this a little bit more in depth as we go, but I think it's really important to have templates that are, you know, use templates as your best friend. No one should be authoring, you know, a hundred page healthcare document on their own.

SPEAKER_01: 4:56

And to talk a little bit further about that, I mean, what we've seen definitely is just, I mean, we speak with a lot of other people, and I'm sure the people listening to this is going to be falling into the same category, but no one organization is the same. I mean, this person's intake form is an email. This person's intake form is an Excel spreadsheet. And, you know, as far as success and just kind of tackling the life cycle, I do think, I mean, if you agree, Chris, and I feel like uniformity is really important, you know, just keeping everything standard. Same with the authoring side of things. It's just... You don't want to be put in a position where just one department is doing this, another department is doing that. Just too many variables, I guess.

SPEAKER_02: 5:36

Yeah, I think most people listening that do this day to day will probably agree that the more things can be streamlined and uniform, it's like this is the process. It always goes through this process. It's tried and true for us. I think it's always going to benefit and make for a more successful lifecycle management, no matter what industry, obviously specific to healthcare today. I

SPEAKER_01: 6:02

mean, even for us, it's... constant change of process and we can feel the challenge there.

SPEAKER_02: 6:09

Yeah, we understand the struggle can be real sometimes. And speaking of that, I think maybe the area in the contract life cycle, at least in the early stages, that can be the most tedious and sometimes tiresome and sometimes frustrating, I would say that negotiation phase, because that's where you're not only dealing with internal and like what your own internal, you know, policies are, and hey, we can accept these provisions, we can accept these provisions. But you're also dealing with third party a lot of the time. So that volleying back and forth can be a very delicate balance. And, you know, if it really kind of is initiating the whole relationship, right? Like if you have a really poor, a really laborsome negotiations with a partner, sometimes you get to the end of that finish line and you're just like, okay, well, what we got here and getting here feels like the win and not necessarily what was contracted. Do you agree?

SPEAKER_01: 7:18

Yeah. Sometimes I feel like that. Sometimes it's just, it's like, oh, finally it's done. It's just like, sometimes it is literally the beginning. So yeah. It's an uphill battle. It's

SPEAKER_02: 7:30

so true. I feel like sometimes, like I said, it's the start of things. And then even, you know, once we've negotiated, we've been redlining, like, again, getting everyone to agree and getting those approvals kind of, like, set in stone. Sometimes that can take a long time, especially if you have, like, very... for, just very nuanced processes overall. Maybe you need a lot of levels. Maybe things need to go to a board to approve things. It's not just as simple as, hey, everybody agreed on the language in here. Now it's, hey, we need to get buy-in from a larger group of stakeholders. And that's all before the contract even gets signed. So that's kind of like the start, I think, think of the life cycle, but Mike, what do you think? Like once you get those approvals, what other steps are in the overall life cycle?

SPEAKER_01: 8:27

Well, I mean, I guess the end goal of approvals is of course signature. And even that in itself can be a challenge, kind of similar to approvals. It's just constant. Who's got it right now? Where's it at? I don't know the status. I got to talk to this person who needs to talk to that person. It's just kind of, it can be kind of a little bit of a cluster and, you know, but obviously signatures are is the end all be all, at least for the first stage, for the birth of a contract, if you will. But yeah, I mean, even signatures is a challenge because you're still having to chase down the same people. So anything that help kind of guide visibility on that and again, automation standard. I mean, as we can, I mean, we're listening to a podcast. We're kind of in the... I mean, it's a little, it's probably like 25, two years late to be saying, Oh, we're in the new age, but it just, I, we, you know, you hear people that are still getting their pen out, printing it out a document. And it's just like, I can't even imagine what life was like 30 years ago, let alone, you know, 15 years ago with this kind of thing. So, you know, people getting signatures now, I mean, they're really, they, I'm just saying, if you're not using something like an e-signature tool, there is something to improve on. And again, like even then it's just not even the signature anymore. And, you know, you move on once it's signed. That's just the beginning of things. Now we got deliverables. Now we got obligations. And these things results are, I mean, it's just constant tracking this, that, and the other thing. I mean, I'm sure Kristen, you can probably agree that it's just, it's, it almost like, you know, you strive for this standardness. You strive for the uniform uniformity. And even then it's just like, once this thing's signed, it's still like a mixed bag. What's going to happen right afterwards, how it's going to be happening, how well it's going to be happening.

UNKNOWN: 10:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 10:09

Yeah, it's

SPEAKER_02: 10:11

true. And like, I feel like even if like, I feel like the perfect world is the uniformity, right? Everyone wishes that every contract could be exactly the same. You know, the obligations are exactly the same, you know, payment terms, like all this stuff is the same, but we all know that's not the reality. So I think tracking those obligations is, I mean, that's keeping your contract in compliance, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01: 10:54

has hundreds and hundreds or thousands and thousands of contracts. As Kristen just mentioned, this is all stemming from the approval, from the negotiation. One small change can mean a world of a difference for a contract. Kristen and I see it every day. It's just, oh, all of a sudden, we need to learn this whole new process. We need to take care of this whole new thing. Having something that really just helps out with just making sense of all of that is really the... the solution. It's just keeping everything in the same spot, making everything easy to understand, easy to access. Accessibility is always nice in a world where we're going digital. So I mean, making sure that we're delivering things on time. If we're not getting things delivered to us on time, we want to make sure that we're getting compensated for that kind of thing. But again, it's just from one net 30, one net 45, that small difference could mean a breach of a contract. So it's kind of, it's tough. Yeah. but even, you know, complying with renewals. I mean, even in my, I mean, I'm sure you can imagine like in my personal life, right? Like I have subscriptions to streaming services for music, for internet. And I don't use these things every day. I don't renew. I renew when I don't even know about it until I'm$150 in the hole. Right. Could you imagine just, I mean, again, I'm not, I'm just a person, but I mean, I'm not a lawyer by any means, but. I mean, basically we can call like an organization, a company, a person with 80,000 Netflix subscriptions. How easy is that to forget? Like, so getting the heads up on that.

SPEAKER_02: 12:30

In my house right now, there's three Netflix subscriptions. Like having something that's just like, sometimes it's like in my day to day life, I'm like, I need something that tells me, hey, this is coming up for renewal this month. Oh, like you said, like your$150 Spotify or streaming service. It's like, I forgot about that. I forgot that it was this day. And that's like you said, that's just like in a personal life. So I would say probably a lot lower stakes, right? Like a streaming service is lower stakes than like, hey, we need to manage this. this multi-million dollar contract. But yeah, renewals, it's big. It's important to be able to manage those items.

SPEAKER_01: 13:21

Yeah. And I'm sure, I hope nobody listening to this has ever been hit with the auto renewal of a million dollars where you could not afford that. I'm sure that was a really fun day to learn that. So being on top of that is also really important in general.

UNKNOWN: 13:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 13:40

It's very true. And you know what's funny? So like we talk about the life cycle, right? I kind of want to circle back, if you'll indulge me, to the negotiation phase. Because like I mentioned, like when it comes to negotiating, that is such a... it's such a minefield, right? Like you're just trying to like make sure you're trying to balance everything. And we talked about uniformity, right? Talked about, you know, things like templates and all that stuff. What sort of stuff do you think is really beneficial for organizations to make sure that they're focusing on to make that negotiation phase go as seamlessly as it possibly can? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 14:28

Right. I mean, I'm going to just call back to standardization. I think that is the name of the game, especially when it comes to internal agreements. It's just that's the only way to make sense of everything. If everything is kind of similar, at least to a degree, maybe not until red lines occur and negotiations occur. But having a common starting block is really the way to go. And I mean, there are tools out there that allow you to keep everything out there, keep everything in there, really, I should say, and keep that that standardization going. And I mean, really, it's just if you don't have that, no one's going to make sense of anything. I mean, even again, I don't want to keep bringing in my personal life, but like I'm sure you to you to Chris and you have certain regimens where you follow. Right. And it's just how I wake up and I make my coffee. Right. It's just that's just my standard. Right. And I mean, I think we could treat contracts like that as well. It's just sticking to the regimen. That's what works. I go to the gym after work. I do this, that, and the other thing. And that's just how it works. That's the way I stay sane. You know what I mean? Just keeping it on this regimen. I don't know if you feel the same way, but that's how I operate.

SPEAKER_02: 15:35

No, it's true. And especially like the world we live in right now, there's so much coming at you all the time, right? It's like you're just There's always, I feel like, an oversaturation. So if you have those, it's like, hey, this is tried and true. This always works. But I also think, like, I do want to kind of call out because, I mean, Mike, you and I know we work with tons of clients that will say to us, like, I'm going to level with you here. Our process ain't working. Like, we need to talk about, like, how we can make the process better. Right. what are like the best practices that you can tell us from like what you've seen, right? So I think it's important to just kind of mention on this podcast that obviously the uniformity and the, you know, the regimen that you follow when it comes to contract management and like your procedures and processes, that's the ideal and it's great. But also not, you know, you're not alone if you're listening to this podcast and you think, we've never had a uniform contract negotiation in the entire time that I've been with this organization, right? Like it's, I think it's, but I think at that point too, it's good to at least identify where the pitfalls are. So you can kind of point to it and say, okay, maybe if we did this moving forward, like let's maybe just incorporate this, one new thing that might benefit the process overall and taking those small wins i think is is also important what are your thoughts

SPEAKER_01: 17:13

on that for some reason i'm thinking about like food how to make an analogy with food like i go to a like a chain restaurant right there's a item on the menu that i love the most right that's my template right and then one day i don't feel like uh you know maybe you go to the order the same thing and you swap out ketchup for mustard Right. I mean, just having that swap in and out option is always good. And, you know, no one likes a restaurant where they say, oh, sorry, you can't do substitutions. We kind of got to treat that the same way with our contracts. As silly as that sounds, it's just not not all of our provisions are going to be perfect. We have to understand exactly what I'm going to keep using the food analogy. Allergies are what preferences are. And we could just consider that as an organization. Right. They don't like this certain provision. And we have to accommodate if we want something. As a business owner or whoever, if we want to deliver this product, if we want to benefit from this product, we sometimes have to take sacrifices here and there. That doesn't mean just... Just during redlining, that's everything. I mean, hey, I'm working with a company in another country. I have to make sure that I accommodate for this country in XYZ provision. I have to just make sure that the amount of time that I'll be spending with this company is the right amount of time. I can't over-promise or under-deliver or anything like that. I have to make sure that the template I'm given, the template I'm potentially tweaking a little bit, fits the bill. Really, I mean, I don't know. I feel like that's just crucial to a negotiation is just making sure that your starting point's nice, but once they actually unveil what you got going for them, it also makes sense to them and to you. You're just setting an example of a good business relationship. I mean, I'm sure with the clients that you've worked with, Kristen, you have a different approach for every single client that you speak with, right?

SPEAKER_02: 19:04

Yeah. They're like snowflakes. No two clients are the same.

SPEAKER_01: 19:08

And no two contracts are the same too.

SPEAKER_02: 19:12

Very true.

SPEAKER_01: 19:14

Yeah. So, I mean, eventually you have to come to the– you're at a crossroads. I have to– you have to– something's got to give basically. We have to combine the two. All right. What does this person want? What does this organization want? What do we want? What's our standard? And that's really what a negotiation is. It's kind of that mutual– understanding of everything. And I mean, it's a critical step, you know, making sure that everything melds together correctly. No, nothing's over like bulldozing a certain clause, for example. And, and honestly, speaking of clauses, I mean, even that itself, I mean, I think these are the ingredients essentially that I'm talking about. And the clauses are just, they can be a Mitch, a mishmash. They could, this clause for me is great for me, but it's horrible for this organization. I not only just being a match, being appropriate. It's just, again, that whole example of I'm working with a company out of the country. I have to make sure I have the right provisions in place for that. And I mean, there are tools out there, especially in healthcare. I mean, I see this all the time in healthcare when it comes to certain clauses need to be brought in based on the provider I'm working with. I need to bring in some addenda based on the provider, like what state that they're eligible to work in and all of that. And I've seen it. It's just... It's outrageous how much time is being spent just picking the template's brain and just, oh, it's like a la carte. I'm picking this, I'm picking that. I mean, I don't know. It's just sometimes it amazes me how time-consuming things can be and just being able to have a tool that does a lot of the heavy lifting for you is super-duper important. I mean, that's just all automatic, really.

SPEAKER_02: 20:58

It's true, and like– I want to shout out, it's crazy if we don't have this, right? Clause libraries. Something where this is where all of my clauses live. This is where all of my legal team who are the ones that are working away on these contracts, these are the things that they've said, hey, These are terms that we've gone through, we've vetted, we think are maybe, you know, obviously in our best interest, but also benefit the third parties we're going to be working with. It's so important to have a repository of those things because, like you said, if you're going through and you are piecemealing everything one by one and you're changing stuff up every contract, that is just not the best use of time. And I think, I mean, Mike, I know you will– I probably agree with this. Probably people listening will agree with this. There's not enough time in the day to just not have things made easier for us where maybe we automatically include certain clauses and things. Anytime you can kind of cut a corner in a good way, not in a bad way. Anytime you can cut a corner and say, hey, this is going to make my life a bit easier and give me some more time in my day. is such a win for anyone that's managing contracts,

SPEAKER_01: 22:27

I think. Yeah, and I mean, I hope no one listening can relate to what I'm about to say, but I mean, we've spoken with companies who, you know, one department has their own clause library and the other department has another one, and clearly they didn't communicate. So there's just no connection. And then all of a sudden, you need to go to internal approval, right? Oh, this department is two months behind. Yeah. This isn't the most up-to-date clause, and we don't want to be in that embarrassing situation where we're prepping together for internal approvals before anything that gets negotiated, and all of a sudden it's just we kind of are calling our pants down. I'll be honest. It's just, oh, I guess I missed that email, and we don't want to be that person. But I guess I've only run into that a few times. I don't know. What about how you feel about that, Kristen, if you've run into that?

SPEAKER_02: 23:18

Yeah. Yeah. It's always interesting because I found that sometimes it's almost like the clauses in the different departments almost contradict each other. So it's like it's just very it's very interesting. How did this happen? Sometimes it's like, OK. Yeah. It's like, I feel like we could be working together because we're all working for the same organization and really be helping one another and not like working against one another so much. But I think too, like going back to what you were saying too, with like that internal approval, maybe you do have that department that's like two months behind. I think that's another thing. Like when you're moving into negotiation, I think that's where transparency and like visibility plays such a key role because like, you might be working with an organization and they're like, no, we need something yesterday. Like whatever service we're signing a contract for, we needed that yesterday. So you kind of need to kind of gauge what's the timeline. What does our internal like bandwidth and workload look like? And how are we going to make sure that, again, this is successful? We kind of need to make sure that everyone's on the same page, which again, cross-departmentally. I mean, you know this. Sometimes it's really hard, but it's like we need to make it work.

SPEAKER_01: 24:41

I mean, we can relate sometimes too, but I don't think it's ever going to be perfect in any organization, but we can only try, right? I don't want to keep going back to standardization, but it's just so common, a challenge that we see in our day-to-day where this person has no idea what this other team member or this other department is up to ever. And that just all stems down to it's not standardized. It is decentralized. And tools out there offer that. It's just a one-stop shop. And I love a one-stop shop. Everyone likes a convenience store, right? I mean, that's the whole point is I don't got to go anywhere else. I'm going to one store. And I mean, just having that is just super strong, really. It's just an asset to an organization just to not just make yourself not fall in hot water at any point during the negotiation.

SPEAKER_02: 25:32

I feel like that's the ideal is like, okay, if everything can be in that, under that one umbrella and that way we can be as prepared as possible. If we need certain things, we know where to go for it. If we need to reference back to previous terms, conditions, provisions, obligations that we've accepted, it's there for us. It's easy to identify. It's easy to see.

SPEAKER_01: 25:54

And something else that's really important in tools like, like you know, CLM tools in general is, you know, I know that people are probably thinking who's listening. It's like, Oh, everything can't be under one umbrella. I mean, this person, this person's day to day is so much different than that person's day to day. And I mean, there are tools out there that allow you to really almost compartmentalize these types of ideas where one per I can be sitting right next to Kristen, right? She has no idea what I'm doing or in my day to day. I like, we have different processes, different jobs. There are systems out there that you can log into the same spot. I, you know, her and I could race into the system. We log in at the same time. Right. And it looks completely different. My side's all catered to me. Her side's all catered to her. So that achieves that standardization, but also doesn't overwhelm an end user. Cause we all know growing pains is huge. And talking about CLM tools is the definition of growing pains. I feel sometimes. So I think that's pretty important to mention too.

SPEAKER_02: 26:51

Yeah, I agree. And even like kind of building off of that a bit. I know we're not going to dive too deep into this particular topic that I'm about to bring up, but I want to mention it because when we talk about that, you know, having people cross, you know, departments utilizing one software. I think when we talk about things like integration. with other softwares. I also think that's huge too. Like, Hey, maybe we, there's one department where they are never going to abandon this one tool that they always use. So, okay. How do we then work with that? Can it integrate with our system that we're working on day to day? Again, Mike and I are in the CLM space. So we see integrations coming up as a, requirement so much more often i mean i don't know about you mike but i feel like even since i kind of started in this world like six years ago like as a daily conversation now that we're having with clients do you feel the same

SPEAKER_01: 27:56

i think it's growing i think it's more and more common i feel like people are again afraid to change i mean i think that's very normal just in general like in personal and professionalized afraid of changes and they are kind of apprehensive to move forward with something that would solve their problems just because they think somebody else who, like you said, Kristen, probably not even going to be touching this thing. It's going to have a conniption about it. So being able to kind of make sure that you approach it with, if you approach things with integration in mind, it's like for the other person that we might be thinking is going to get a little, have a little bit of an uproar. If we make this monumental change with our, with our processes, I think that, you know, that gives them a little bit more peace of mind. You know, you could just stick with your process. It's working for you. It's working great, but I need someone to help me out. And if we can have a little tie in and, you know, that way you can keep your peace of mind and I can revamp my processes, I think it's a win-win. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 28:51

And I think like it kind of goes back to what we've been talking about throughout today to like almost putting a bow on it where like we talk about like being prepared. We talk about standardization. We talked about with your food analogy, almost like knowing what ingredients need to go in. Right. Like all that stuff is so important. Like before you even dive into these, you know, negotiations are ready. Like, hey, talking about that request where we kind of started off like. what stuff needs to be involved in this, like what we're requesting. If we're out there looking for software, what are the requirements? Like having that kind of battened down is gonna be so helpful no matter, again, like what organization, we talked about every organization being different. I think that's probably a universal truth. The more prepared you are and know exactly what you need and kind of carve those items out prior to going into, you know, initiating this whole contract life cycle that we're talking about, I think just benefits the organization overall and you'll have a much more successful relationship with that vendor, that software, those services, like whatever it is that you're kind of contracting services

SPEAKER_01: 30:03

for. Right. And I mean, it's funny just because I know that my side, I feel like we all can agree. We all have experience with a nightmare negotiation and it's almost to the, it can be the point where it's just like, all right we get it signed it's like geez do I even want to work with these people anymore like what is going on but I mean in general like being prepared like you're saying it's just like be prepared for everything I mean people aren't just doing it to be annoying people aren't doing it to be to be obnoxious and get under your skin I mean at the end of the day the goal is a partnership right it's just and you got to be prepared for anything that goes your way whether it's about the specific product you're having in mind, about the certain warranties or what have you, or just the payment terms. You got to be prepared for really anything and keep an open mind, really. I don't know if you feel the same way, but I've been there.

SPEAKER_02: 30:56

Yeah. I feel like if you go into a negotiation with a closed mind or preconceived ideas, again, I feel like it just is setting you up for failure. Yeah. And it's funny too, because I know we're kind of, you know, we're kind of winding down towards the end of our discussion here, but I want to pivot a little bit talking about being prepared for anything, right? Let's talk a little bit about AI. I feel like we have to, right? Like we talk about it all day, every day. Talking about being prepared. I don't know about you. Sometimes, when talking about AI, I feel like there's no way I can be prepared for how fast that sphere is moving. There's always stuff coming out day to day. What are your thoughts on that? How to keep up with AI, how to utilize it, best practices, tips and tricks. Is it going to replace me? What's going on? I

SPEAKER_01: 32:05

hope it doesn't replace us, but I think that's a valid... That's a valid piece of intimidation, I guess, if I'm just being honest. But I mean, like you said, I mean, it is rapidly expanding. I mean, even just I'm sure you and many people who are listening have seen an AI generated photo. And I mean, just a year ago, right, it looked like an abstract painting. Now it's like photorealistic. And that's only going to happen further with everything. But Replacing, I don't know about replacing. And I think it's safe to say that when it comes to my, in the CLM space especially, I think it'd be very foolish for a business owner or decision maker to just take whatever AI says as the word of law. And of course, I don't care how many language modelers are going through this AI. They did not pass the bar. It is a chat bot on a screen. It's like smarter child back in the day, but a little bit smarter than that. Throwback. Yeah, seriously. That was pretty impressive back then. But what can it do? I mean, I think it can give you a different perspective, right? Especially just you and I, Kristen, I'm sure we've had conversations about our company, right? And They could definitely dive into a little bit of an echo chamber a little bit. You know, we're just talking about us. Oh, this is, this is, this is this, and we do this and we do this and we do that. Right. So having this kind of, I think more, it's almost like a, like a non-biased perspective of things. It's just, let's just say on in a vacuum, what does this mean to me? What does this mean to the company? What does this mean to the provider? Like just having this vacuum kind of just shout from, The ether can definitely give you some insight just because, you know, you probably never thought of it that way. And probably the provider that you're negotiating with probably never thought of it that way either. I mean, that's my biggest take. I mean, my biggest interpretation of how people are using it, especially in the world of law and just contracts in general. I mean, do you feel like you have different perspective or different take on it?

SPEAKER_02: 34:15

No, I mean, I feel like I am aligned with you. What I will say, and this is a term I've been hearing more and more frequently, is people using AI as like a sidekick, like a little buddy that like goes to work with them and like helps them out in a time of need, right?

SPEAKER_01: 34:35

Right. I think that's the best way to use it.

SPEAKER_02: 34:37

Yeah, I think that's the healthiest way to look at AI. It's there to assist you when needed. We've talked about clauses a bunch today, right? We've gone through 10 passes of this one clause, and we cannot agree on it. Let me see what a chat bot would say. Let me see how AI would tweak this based on what we've kind of gone back and forth with already. And utilizing that, like you said, as an unbiased third party. And then if you choose, it might spit out the worst clause you've ever seen in your life. And you say, thanks, but no thanks. But it could pull something out where, hey, like you said, we weren't thinking of it from that angle. Let's maybe change this, update this, alter this. All right, let's send this out. It's just that healthy suggestion.

SPEAKER_01: 35:35

Yeah, I think your thanks but no thanks comment really does resonate just because you have to speak with a lot of people about this. I just feel like as far as being prepared and just kind of understanding what's out there, I do think that's a very good point. Thanks but no thanks. The reason I'm saying that is just because A lot of people do– I mean, you've got to get two ends of the spectrum, right? You have people who are afraid of the AI. That's understandable in a certain way. But you have some people who think they're going to click a button and then just be able to kick up their feet and go to the beach, and their job is going to be done for them. But I think the whole sidekick idea, thanks but no thanks, it's really just another way to get an idea. But I'm just imagining someone who's– pushing to retirement, right? They've been doing this for 40 years, right? Oh, I know. I know that this is the way to go with this clause. I mean, sometimes that's just going to fall flat on its face, right? It's just I'm stuck in my ways. I know better. And I do think just even a mindset like that can benefit from this sidekick. Hey, I just want to give you a little suggestion. That's

SPEAKER_02: 36:45

all. It's true. And I mean– Why not? Sometimes like we talked about, there's not enough hours in the day. If AI can kind of help you and take some things off the plate that allow your brain to focus somewhere else for a couple seconds, those are all precious. And, you know, I would love to say, you know, the eight hour day that we all work, but I'm sure some people are listening to this and would laugh and say, I would love an eight hour day. But, you know, just have it there with you, you know, to take when you need it. and reach out to it when you need it. And if you don't, that's absolutely fine. Even things as simple as even extraction, like AI extracting data out so you don't have to manually key in a bunch of data about a contract. Maybe the AI can do it for you. But yeah, like I said, I feel like this is just a rapidly growing world with AI. I mean, in two weeks... We might even be remiss even including this in this podcast because in two weeks there might be some revolutionary AI that's been introduced and everything we just talked about is obsolete. I think it's an exciting place to be. Scary, yeah, for sure. But I think there's a lot of excitement in it and I'm excited to see where AI goes and how we continue to improve it and make it work for us, at least in the kind of the contract management, you know, life cycle of things.

SPEAKER_01: 38:21

Definitely. I think, like Kristen said, it's just it's rapid. Next two weeks, we have something like the Terminator on our hands. Who knows? Or could have some sort of lawyer bot that solves all of our problems. But, you know, that all comes back to keeping an open mind, whether it's you're negotiating manually, negotiating with the assistance with A.I., stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02: 38:46

So, I don't know. Well, I think AI is a good place to leave it. We've talked about today, right? We've talked about contract life cycle, kind of breaking down like what we see working with, you know, organizations regularly, things that'll make you succeed, things you might want to think about. Talked about, you know, negotiations, things where you could have, you know, Where could there be pitfalls? Where could you really soar and succeed when it comes to negotiations? And then just the always ever present AI. So hopefully those that are listening found some good nuggets in here. Mike and I could continue to talk for probably another like three hours, but we'll spare you. We'll do that offline. But we just want to thank everybody again for listening to the podcast, for listening to us just kind of banter back and forth with our thoughts about, you know, the contract life cycle in the healthcare space. And yeah, hopefully you'll be hearing more from us soon. But thank you all so much. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_01: 39:52

Thanks so much, everyone.

SPEAKER_00: 39:58

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UNKNOWN: 40:28

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