Health Law Career Journeys: Reflections on Motherhood

In honor of Mother’s Day, Alé Dalton, Partner, Bradley Arant Boult Cummings LLP, speaks with Rachel Byrd, Partner, Bass Berry & Sims PLC, Kerri Zelensek, Associate General Counsel, Regent Surgical, and Katie Tarr, Shareholder, LBMC, about how motherhood has shaped their health law career journeys. They discuss navigating motherhood while building a successful and meaningful career, how to have full lives inside and outside the office, what they would tell their younger selves, and what they hope their children remember the most about them when they are grown. From AHLA’s Early Career Professionals Council.

Watch this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCr24wQkktw

Watch the Father's Day episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApkMiK79kFY

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

This episode of AHLA Speaking of Health Law is brought to you by AHLA members and donors like you. For more information, visit AmericanHealth Law.org.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Hey everyone, welcome back to AHLA Speaking of Health Law. I'm Allie Dalton, a partner in Bradley's Healthcare Practice Group here in Nashville, and I spend most of my days advising clients on transactions, regulatory matters, and day-to-day operations. I also have the privilege of serving as chair of HLA's Early Career Professionals Council. And today's episode is a really special one. In honor of Mother's Day, we're talking with three women I'm lucky enough to know personally. They are leaders in healthcare, thoughtful professionals, and incredible moms. They each have taught me so much about being a mom and a health thought professional. So we're going to chat a little bit about career growth, identity, leadership, trade-offs, support systems, seasons of life, and what it looks like to build something meaningful both inside and outside of work. I'm thrilled to be joined today by Carrie Zelensky of Regent Surgical, Katie Tarr of LBMC, and Rachel Bird of Bass Berry and Sins. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. So to start us off, I would love for each of you to share a little bit about your career journey, how you got to where you are today, what your season of life looks like professionally and personally. And Rachel, if you want to kick things off, I'll hand it off to you.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Sure. So I am a partner in the healthcare practice group at Fastberry Sims here in Nashville. My day-to-day looks very similar to Ali's. We have very kind of uh mirror practices. We actually work together at Broadley for a number of years. Um and uh personally, so I um I have four children. My my youngest is um under one, so I'm relatively recently back from maternity leave. My oldest is uh in second grade, so navigating, kind of entering between years, uh, which as Ali has heard me say, start sooner than I thought, um, and juggling kind of older kid activities and how uh how that looks different than the little kid season of life. You've heard me say this, Ali. Like, there's no right time, I think, to to have kids or to move firms or to make any decision. You just kind of as as as those moments come up, whether it's a professional decision or personal decision, um, I always just kind of lead with making the decision I want that makes sense for me and my family and trusting that we're gonna figure that out. Um and uh I think um we'll probably get into this pro every decision has a trade-off, but I also feel like you don't have to make them, right? Like you can make your make your decisions and be be happy with sort of the choices and that you're gonna figure out how to make make it work in a way that works for you.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Thanks, Rachel. Carrie, you want to share about you?

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Sure, yes. Um I'm Carrie Zelensky. Like Ali said, I work for Regent Surgical, which is an ASC management company. Um, so I am associate general counsel over here. I live in Chicago. And before I came to Regent, which was about four years ago, I worked at Rush University Medical Center for a little bit of time. And before that, I was at McGuire Woods in their healthcare practice group for a while. So I've kind of seen in-house and um, you know, large firm life as a mom. I had my two daughters when I was at Maguire Woods, and then I had my son when I was at Rush. So my kids are now four, yeah, four, six, and eight. My son's birthday is today. So um that caused me to pause today. Yeah, my baby's four. Um so yeah, like Rachel, like I'm sort of in this new phase with my oldest daughter where she's getting into activities and some independence. And so um constantly changing and sort of shifting what it's like to parent as um a working mom.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Thanks, Carrie. And last but not least, Katie.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

Uh hi, yes, I'm Katie Tar. Uh, I am a partner or shareholder at LBMC, which is an audit tax and advisory firm. I've been there for about 13 years in Nashville. Before that, I was at Ohio Health, which is a health system in Ohio. Imagine that. Um, I started my career there out of school. So I've only had two jobs, but I've worked um in-house, at a health system, in a financial consulting role, and now in a consulting role outside for LBMC. So I've seen both sides. I have um one son who is almost six. His birthday is in about a month, which I'm in vast into party planning. Um, and then I have assumed-to-be daughter who is about seven and a half. So I went through a very significant personal life event um in 2024 that drug well into 2025 when my divorce was final. And then I have now met and am planning to get married this fall. And so I am navigating going from one to two children and from um a single household to a blended family and a lot of personal and professional challenges that I have experienced over the past couple of years as well as currently.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Thanks, y'all. Um, so one of the first questions that I wanted to ask you is many professional environments, as we know, were designed around assumptions that don't always reflect the realities of caregiving responsibilities. And I think, Rachel, you sort of started us off on this conversation. But what has it been like navigating motherhood while building a successful and meaningful career? And any of you are welcome to start, and you can share either whether that's now or in your earlier years when you were, I know some of you were in different roles when you first started your families. Um you're welcome to to kick us off.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

So I would say like two sort of shifts that I've experienced over the course of you know eight years of being a mom. Um I have found that it's just constant readjustment. Um, so like when I was at the law firm, there was a lot of things that you didn't expect, right? Like you sort of had to drop everything. Um, and that was challenging from sort of like a balance standpoint. I I think there's this idea that being in-house, you don't work as much, or you know, it's like a little bit more of a lifestyle position. And um, that's not always the case, but I do feel like being sort of in the business, I have more visibility into timelines, like long-range what's going to happen, such that I can anticipate things more. So while I might not work less all the time, I do feel like it has helped me navigate because I have a little bit more predictability in terms of like what's going to be needed when, just because I'm sort of sitting within the business and can see the different things going on. Um and then Rachel, you alluded to this. Like I always had this idea in my head that as my kids got older and they could do more like physically, it would become easier. And that's just not the case at all. Um they just, you know, they need more attention and support as they develop as people, and then they're in all these activities. And I really like to sort of stay on the pulse of like who their friends are, get to know their families, things like that. So that was a total misconception on my part. And we're just constantly sort of juggling, navigating those things.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

Yeah, Allie will laugh at me because I feel like Ali reminds me of the more than I remember this quote, but we were just talking about recently. It's like little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems. Uh, and you I feel like I'm I'm still in medium kid, medium problem land, maybe, but you have one of you're in all the seasons, right? Yeah, yeah. Ideally, you're like sleeping when you navigate those those next stages. Uh so at least you're like physically in a different place, but they're so um they notice your absence, I think, more easily as they're older. And that's just something you have to factor into when you when you're juggling things. But I think Carrie, you kind of hit on this too. I think um as you as you progress in your career, you also have a little bit more autonomy for the most part to kind of decide when you're dealing with something or to delegate something. Like usually, not always, but like usually one hour isn't that like big of a deal if you need to do something, you know, at a different time or you have you've promised a kid you're gonna be at something and you need to be at it. Um I feel like at this stage of my career, it is usually pretty easy to manage those things, whereas as an associate, that tended to be more challenging. Um I think that's probably, I mean, that's kind of what your question I think in some ways is getting at, Allie. I think um if you don't figure out how to balance that, then you probably end up leaving some aspect of your career in a way you didn't you might you might decide, I'm not doing this, I'm not gonna pursue, you know, trying to move up the ranks in-house, I'm not gonna pursue partner because I'm making all these trade-offs. Like you have to find a way to create that balance. And like for me, I think sometimes it's almost hard to step back and think about what that looks like because I had my first kid as a junior associate. So I've like always been trying to thread that needle and protect time. And like it's in some ways become really easy to just be like, I I don't have unless it's an emergency, right? I'm not available for a call at 6 p.m. on a weekday. I will be if it's an emergency, but I'm not just gonna randomly say yes to that all the time. Because if you say yes to it all the time, one, people assume you're available, and two, you're constantly making that trade-off and it really affects your home life. Um, and nine times out of ten, that call could happen at three, or it could happen at like eight: thirty. I don't mind an 8:30 call in the evening if it's like after bedtime, right? I would rather do that. Um and I think you know, I hesitate to wade into this one, but I think that our generation of um professionals, like men tend to be more, there are less sort of when we look upstream and you have um a lot of partners, you know, 20, 30 years, my senior are men and have stay-at-home wives, and it's just a different balance. Whereas now I have a lot of peers, regardless of their gender or their family makeup, who are deciding um to make those same decisions. And so a lot of people are protecting that window, and it is not just me and the one other working mom on the team trying to protect that bedtime window. Kind of everybody wants to, and I think that's probably made my own career path a lot easier than someone in my shoes 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_04 10:55

Rachel, I think that's a really good point. That was something as I was reflecting in preparation for today that I thought a lot about of like when I started and when I first had my son was um he was born in 2020 in May, right in the height of the pandemic, which actually was a great time to have a baby because everyone suddenly was working from home and that became super easy. Um, so some of it is just real great luck on timing. Um, but uh you know, prior to that, it would have been really challenging because a lot of the leaders um were did have stay-at-home wives and just a very different uh expectation, I guess, from a family perspective, from our roles and responsibilities. And now seeing that shift in the workplace that both parents are typically working and both parents are trying to juggle life and family. And so it's much more common to have those same challenges as opposed to being the only one, both male and female, to your point, regardless of gender. I have male colleagues who are often taking the day off to stay home with their kids while their wives are working. And so it's made it easier. Um, I will say navigating for me, one of the things has been around that idea of, and someone told this to me, and I wish I would have known it sooner, of that the time to work often can be when they're little, um, to which I think you all talked about, it's just they don't they don't notice your presence as much. They it's it's your absence is so missed to your point at the recitals or whatever it might be now. And um, and someone told me that. And so I I did. I worked a lot when my son was younger and really poured into my career and and did all the professional organizations and invested. And um, and then for me, that looked like having a nanny. I know not everyone can, but if you don't have a nanny, then you're probably looking at moving home to be a new family or creating some really strong support systems. Um, and then also I think you have a really good point about if you're if you're in an associate, or in my case, it's an analyst role, it can be really overwhelming to thinking thinking about having a family because you have such little control over your schedule for the most part. But as you progress in your career, you get more control um and it can be much easier to manage a family. And that is something to think about timing for me. Like I said, I had my son at the end of my first year as a partner, and that was really helpful because I was able to pour a lot into my career, make partner, and then start a family when I had a lot of autonomy and control over my schedule. I know not everyone can do that, but if you don't, then it's making sure you kind of have those strong support systems in place to help manage and navigate the the balance and um balance of the various demands if you have less control over your schedule. So those are a couple of things that have worked for me. I remember also someone asking me, you know, or saying to me, I don't want to be a partner because I look at what it takes and I don't want to do what you're doing. And one of the things that I've also always tried to tell people, that person that said that, or people that have said things like that, is you know, each generation, each time you're trying to make it better for the next. And so what I'm doing is not what you're gonna have to do. And hopefully what you have to do is not what the next generation does. And so there is some of that balance of looking at how other people have done it, but also knowing I think each year, each generation, it gets progressively easier. As we've talked about some of the ways it's gotten easier, even just in the last decade for us. Um, and so giving that kind of encouragement that, you know, just so it because it looks this way now, hopefully it gets better um each year as we progress.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Thanks, Katie. I totally agree with that. I am a mom post-2020 and the beneficiary of each of y'all's hard work to make it easier for even, I mean, we're all within the same generation, but even just the next sort of batch of moms. Um, I definitely, I mean, gosh, I have so much respect for all moms, but especially folks who did it before 2020. And um I remember Rachel being a junior associate because we were junior associates together and seeing her balance it and sort of having some of the same questions and just really, really glad that we've been able to, I guess, improve in some ways, and even though there's still a lot of work to be done. Um our early career professionals are always asking us about how to really focus in on that having the full family life and having your caregiving responsibilities. And I think a few of y'all have already sort of hinted at this, but what would you want them to know? And I know, Rachel, I mean, I think Katie, you you and Rachel both had really good perspectives of, you know, Katie, you had your son when you were sort of in a partner position and had a little bit more of that flexibility that Rachel was talking about. I had a similar experience, but I don't know, Carrie and Rachel, y'all had um kids while you were associates and kind of in a younger role. And so I'd just be curious to know what you might share with some of those early career professional folks. Um, what would you want them to know about how to navigate this, how to have full lives in and outside the office? And I, Rachel, I think I know what you're gonna kick off with. Carrie, you can kick us off, but I know you're gonna say there's no perfect time. So you're welcome to share more about that because I do think that's really encouraging, um, Carrie.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

I completely agree that there's like no good time, honestly. There's trade-offs, you know, no matter where you are in your career. But like one thing that really has did not resonate with me at the time, but now is something that I sort of have to remind myself and take to heart is like, you are the one that gets to decide what it means to have a meaningful career and like be the mom that you want to be, not like my mom who was a stay-at-home mom, not other people in the firm that have had different aspirations. Like it's it's me, it's for me to determine what that looks like. Um, and so, you know, for me, that looked like really thinking hard about whether I wanted to go up for a partner or make some sort of an adjustment. Um looking thinking hard about like what are those things that I am lucky enough to be in a position to delegate or pay for someone to help me with, but I don't want to. Like I want to do those things myself, period. I don't want my mom to do it, even though I have a great family support system or my husband, like I want to do it and like protecting those at all costs and just communicating around those, like you know, putting up like walls where I need to put up walls, communicating, and I'm not I'm not good at this or perfect at it, but these are the things that I'm constantly encouraging myself to do. Um, so just to sort of take a step back and remind yourself like you'll never feel ready. There's no good time. So when you feel a little bit ready, you should dive in and just like navigate the path that you want to take um and ask for support around it.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

I look by Karen, I remember when I met you, we were across the table on a deal and you were, I think, getting ready to go on maternity leave. Um, and I remember that being one of other than Rachel, one of the first times that I had interacted with someone who was in that position. And I just remember, I mean, you were amazing at your job. So I just remember it was it was a good moment for me to sort of be like, okay, this is being modeled in a way that seems attainable and encouraging. So I certainly um appreciate appreciate all that.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

I think that was before I had any kids. So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

One of the things she just said, Carrie, is such a good point. I mean, both like that you get to decide what what is meaningful on both pieces for you, but also like figuring out what are the things that are non-negotiables for you, I think on the family side is so helpful because it also means like you can kind of let go of some of the other things and like delegate and and delegate within your own family balance. And like I think probably anybody carefully listening to this conversation or or anybody on this call probably has um sometimes has a hard time letting go of things and like letting somebody else manage things. And I think like that that helps so much for me. Other than the things that are the things that are mine and that I want to be in charge of, I'm I'm not in charge of it. I'm not in charge of like scheduling soccer practice, like making the decision of what soccer team my daughter can be. Like we have figured out in our family the things that are things my husband manages, and that we just let those be sticky and I don't try to like type A my way into controlling things that I've decided are not as important to me to like be my decision and own everything. And I think insane, like I have delegated out laundry, I find it to be incredibly time consuming and not worth it. I want to spend my time with my kids. I'd rather talk through math homework and make sure I'm understanding what is confusing about subtraction to someone than folding laundry. Like I value one task more than the other, right? And so figuring out those things and just going with your decision and finding a way to not let everything be your problem, I think is like so key to not kind of burning out on both those plates filling too full.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Thanks, Rachel. And Katie, anything to add on this? From what would you share with? I know that you've you've held a lot of leadership roles within AHLA and you were um with the Women's Leadership Council when I first met you. So I'm sure that you have uh lots of thoughts on this piece that we always ask you about for early career professionals.

SPEAKER_04 20:35

Yeah, I mean, I thought Carrie and Rachel had some really, really good points. So uh I won't go into some of the things um that they said because I echo everything that they have already said, but uh just for for me and even more so now, like as a single mom and now working on you know, combining a family, just being really thoughtful and intentional about when you want to build and grow and when you're maybe in a sustain and maintain. And I think um, you know, we talked about it earlier that um, you know, it's not necessarily balance, but seasons. And so thinking about this is a season where I'm in more of an investment in my family and more of a maintaining my work. And that means saying no to some things or shedding some responsibilities. For me, I've just gone through that with the with the divorce. I wanted to really make it a priority to pick my son up from school when I do have him because I don't have him all the time. Um, and I got a comment of why don't you just sign up for aftercare? Why can't you just do that? And I just said, you know, just in my head, that person's expectation is not gonna affect me. Like I know this is the right thing to do. And it's a season, like I I'm sure he'll go to aftercare or have sports or other things after school in the future. But this is a really important pivotal transitional year, and maybe two, maybe three years that I'm like, I'm gonna hold this line. And this boundary really firm because I know that it's really important to him. And being like, I think now that I'm older, I realize seasons are not, you know, spring, summer, fall. Seasons are a year, two years, five years, maybe ten years. I mean, you know, it can be much longer than you think. You have a very long life ahead of you. Um, and seasons, I mean, you don't want to just sit and let life happen, but I think also being content and being really present and engaged where you are. Um, I remember thinking at one point, you know, I just have to show up as best as I can. And if it's not enough, it's not enough. Like, and I I can't really worry about what other people think or how I'm I'm being judged or compared, but just this is this is what I'm able to do. And then also thinking about all of the investments I've made. So I could it could be scary because I've done so many leadership roles and been involved in so many organizations. This June is the first year I'm not going to be in any external or internal leadership role within my firm or the industry in probably 12 years. Um after board board after board and committee after committee. And that's a little scary because that is something I love is something I'm good at, and it's something that is important probably for my job or have been important for my job, but also knowing like I've been doing that for 10 years and making all of that investment, that I can take a season where I step back because there's a lot of transition going on, as I said, with with the wedding and with blink combining the family and moving and all of the things that we're gonna do. Like I'm trying to create margin and capacity for myself to show up best for my family. Um, and being being able to do that and being okay and being really intentional that like this this is a priority this year, but it's gonna look very different next year once things are are settled and established and being okay with that. Um, but you know, taking kind of a constant pulse check on where things are at and are you content with where you're at um or do you need a to make a change?

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Thanks, Katie. And yeah, Carrie, I think your point is so valid about just re really setting up what you what success means to you and making sure that that's sort of your north star throughout your career and as you make your choices. Um one of the questions that we wanted to ask y'all um is if you could share an encouragement with your younger self, what would you tell her? I think I'm sure it will echo a lot of what you guys are saying. And I love that even though we have a different amount of kids, our families look different. I feel like we all share the same thread and the same sentiment. So if there's anything that you would share with your younger self, um, what would you tell her? Katie, do you want to kick us off?

SPEAKER_04 24:46

You know, I could think of a lot of different things, but the thing that would be have been helpful for me to know is probably that my life is going to look very different than I ever imagined for myself, but it's very joyful. And that would be something that would have been really helpful to know.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

Um I feel like probably so somewhat similarly echoing that, Katie, just like a believe in yourself and bet on yourself and and trust the decisions you want to make because you will figure it out. And um I think I'm actually forgetting now if it was Katie or Terry that said this, that reminded me of this. Um I think this is a conversation you and I have had before, Allie, where like just as we're kind of straddling all these things, right? Like I think um there is it's it's hard, right? Like the years in which you're trying to progress forward in your career at the outset are also kind of in line with like the years in which you might be, you know, figuring out what your family life looks like and those overlap, and it's hard. And like I know we've had that conversation, Ellie, of like a year or two years right now can feel so long and so monumental, and like particularly in the context of like a law firm lawyer, and like when are you making partner or when are you elevating to equity and like what do those things look like? And realizing that like right now it all feels so relevant and and like each year matters, and like ideally you're finding a way to do this for like your career is really long, and and the vast majority of the years in it are on the other side of whatever that professional line is. And so, like take the path that works for you to get there and like trust that that will work out. I don't think my career looks anything like I thought it would look like when I was like a first-year associate in terms of like moving firms or like what ways in which my practice has changed, but like my family life does look like what I think I had hoped it looked like. And so, like, I at the end, like I got to where, you know, places that I'm really happy with uh uh on both sides. And like I think I I wouldn't have been able to map this path out 10 years ago, and and that's probably for the best. Like you just gotta make your decisions and bet on yourself.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

I love that. I feel like we we're naturally drawn to be very um in control of things. I mean, that's part of the reason why we're in the careers that we're in. So it's always a good reminder to, you know, sometimes letting go and trusting the process is the most helpful. Carrie, what about you? What would you tell a younger Carrie?

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Um, probably what I said before that like I get to define what success as a mom and a professional looks like for me. Um and to just like speak up. I I when I was at the firm, I went on reduced hours for a period of time. I asked to work remote pre-COVID, which was not as common. So, you know, like I would have never been able to make it the, you know, seven or so years that I did without sort of asking for some of these things myself. And, you know, you build up that goodwill during those early years so that people value you enough to give you the flexibility that they can. Obviously, there are parameters. So um, you know, if you got sort of the trust behind yourself and the trust from other people, then you can do the best you can to navigate towards that North Star that you're setting for yourself by advocating for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

I love that reminder. Okay, well, we are gonna start wrapping up with one more question, but thank you all so much for taking the time. Um, I know that um you guys are busy professionals, busy at home and at work, and we're just really excited to celebrate Mother's Day by showcasing some of our best and brightest in HLA and getting your wisdom, um, which I continue to appreciate and love the reminders of, especially as someone navigating the early years. It's really nice to see sort of what life will look like and some of the new challenges that it'll bring and some of the great things it'll bring. Um, so our closing question for this group is when your children are grown and thinking about you someday, what do you hope they remember the most about you?

SPEAKER_01 28:58

I just hope they like remember that the house was full of laughter and joy. And I know that sounds so simple, but sometimes it is hard to like walk down the stairs because I work from home and smile and like you know, dance to whatever song is on because there's so much going on on my phone, or like a lot happened that day, and I'm not perfect at it, but I try so hard to like leave that to the side for three hours and then pick it back up when I need to. So um constantly working on separating that from them, but that's my goal every day.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Thanks, Carrie. Rachel.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Like very similar. I mean, I think that I I hope that they that their sort of memory of their childhoods in the home that like mom was present. Um, and you know, I grew up with a stay-at-home mom, so it's a very different recollection of my childhood than I think theirs will be. But I also feel like I want them to, you know, remember that even though like like mom worked and she did these really cool things, and mom was proud of her career and and they understand, well, they think my job is um that I help people do deals with each other, which when you really drill it down is the deal. So it's very applicable to to navigating sibling disputes as well. Um You're always working on deals. Well, mom did that and and was present, and that they uh that that's the memory and not some memory of absence. Mom missed this big thing, or mom always missed these things. And I think maybe that's part of why that has become something that's important to me as they grow up to be at all the things I can.

SPEAKER_04 30:41

Katie. Yeah, very similar. I had had definitely written down, you know, a household with joy and laughter. Um, and then also that we were always together or together a lot. I think other big things that I care about is wanting them to feel safe and loved, um, encouraged to try new and challenge new and new things and new experiences and do hard things, that they were challenged. So, like we did hard things, but we made it and we tried new things. Um, so those are some things I really want. Another big part of my life that I focus on is surrounding my kids with other adults, like I that that love them and care about them. And so, yes, I know I'm very important in their life and I want to be present, but a lot of that time that looks like going over and doing something with friends and with other adults and then those parents being as invested in my kiddos as as I am. And I think about that because I had a really full day yesterday. We were at one friend's house and then another friend. We just stopped by and learned my son learned how to ride a bike last night at this friend's house with the dad made us dinner, and then we met my fiance and his daughter, and we played outside and you know, just a lot of adults um all together, not the kids are over here and the adults are over here, but we're all together. And it's not just mom, but mom had all of these friends who really cared about me and loved me and um and took care of me too.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

I love that. That's really special. Thank you guys so much. I think one of the gifts of hearing from women like each of you is a reminder that there's no single blueprint to doing this correctly. Um, careers evolve, your families evolve, and the priorities evolve, and success can obviously look deeply meaningful while also looking really different in different seasons. So thank you to our guests and to everyone listening, whether you're a mom, hope to be one someday, you love a mom, or you work with one. We hope that this conversation encouraged you. Thanks so much for joining us for AHLA Speaking of Health Law. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share with a colleague. Until next time.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to AHLA Speaking of Health Law wherever you get your podcast. For more information about AHLA and the educational resources available to the Health Law community, visit AmericanHealth Law.org.