RWP Episode #176: Rules vs ritual with Reiki Women Podcast

In this episode of the Reiki Women Podcast, hosts Bronwen Logan, Michaela Daystar, and Carrie Varela engage in a deep conversation about the roles of rules and rituals within the practice of Reiki. 

They explore personal perspectives on rules—both helpful and restrictive—and draw distinctions between the principles that guide their practices and the rituals that enrich them. 

Whether you question the value of rules or see them as essential, this episode examines how rituals and rules can create meaningful and ethically sound Reiki experiences. 

Join the conversation and discover how to balance structure and flexibility in your Reiki practice.

00:53 Welcome to the Reiki Women Podcast
02:20 Exploring Rituals and Rules in Reiki Practice
05:40 The Role of Rituals in Reiki
07:24 Personal Experiences and Ethical Guidelines
20:12 Teaching and Spontaneous Rituals
33:37 Creating Sacred Spaces in Business
38:50 Closing Thoughts

Hosts
Bronwen Logan: https://ReikiwithBronwen.com
Carrie Varela: https://www.reikihealingsociety.com
Michaela Daystar: http://HeartscapesInsight.com

Our email: reikiwomenpodcasts@gmail.com

Our own RWP Group discussion: Embodying Reiki
   / 1564135767437136

Transcript

0:04

I don't like to do rules and it's probably a personality trait. Whenever I come across rules, I'm like, well, that's a human created rule and I question it. There are some rules that are really helpful actually. So maybe we've got good rules and bad rules. if you go completely rogue every time and your class is completely different every time. It, it attracts maybe a certain kind of client, but it doesn't always bring that sense of groundness and a dropping into a shared experience. I never have really thought of it in terms of rules. I've put different words on it. So I, I think I would more commonly refer to those as values, like governing values, and then processes and procedures that help me to enact those values. Welcome friends to the Reiki Women Podcast, an exploration into the profound depths of the system of Reiki. From a Japanese spiritual perspective and how that relates to our modern lives, we are keeping it real to Reikis origins, challenging the new age stereotype that things like. Crystals, chakras and angels are authentic aspects of the system. I'm Bronwyn Logan, and when I'm not writing best selling books about the Japanese system of Reiki, 75,000 readers and counting, I'm here debunking, outmoded reiki myths and coaching individuals and groups. Through my website, Reiki with Bronwyn. And I'm Mikayla de star, lead teacher and Weaver of Hardscapes Reiki connecting the dots between reiki and environmental and social justice because our individual healing cannot be extracted from healing relationship with the collective and with the land. And I'm Carrie Rela from the Reiki Healing Society here to help you transform your reiki practice into a thriving, prosperous business. 'cause while passion fuels your purpose, it's time to make it sustainable, authentic, and beautifully used. We're three women diving into the heart of Japanese Reiki. We're building a community that centers women's voices and inspires wellbeing. We're not just for women, we're for everybody. Come join the conversation. hello friends. Welcome back to the Reiki Women podcast. I am really excited about the, uh, topic that Bronwyn pitched for us today, uh, because it's something that comes up a lot in my teaching, in my practice, in terms of how I think, how I organize things. It's a topic that is just personally very interesting and compelling to me. And so I'm really looking forward to the conversation that it generates. And it's focusing on the roles that ritual and rules play in our reiki practice. Teasing out the distinctions, the differences between those two things. Uh, they're perhaps more similar and more different, paradoxically than we might think about. Uh, so what is the role and what is the difference between rituals and rules within our Reiki practices? And I am gonna pass it over to you, Broman, because this was your brilliant idea. What comes up for you when you think about them? So the difference between rules and ritual, and I was thinking, I don't like to do rules and, it's probably a, a personality trait. Uh, but, but apart from that, also within the system of reiki, whenever I come across rules, I'm like, well, that's a human created rule and I question it. Right? But then in my head I was thinking, uh, there are some rules that are really helpful actually. So maybe we've got. Good rules and bad rules. And, normally I don't even like using those words either. See, I'm just not a, I don't like to tie myself down to these things, but I'm thinking what would be a good rule within the system of reiki and a good rule is, to follow ethical, guidelines. Right. That's a good rule. So there are ethics, about, creating boundaries between yourself and students. We did a whole podcast on don't sleep with your students, for example. Or, you know, something like medical care. If a client is coming to you and saying, I'm taking all these pills, or I'm having chemo, or whatever, that is their experience and their business and their life, and it's not for us to, interfere with that. Yep. There's a lot of different sorts of ethical rules that I think are really helpful. And so rules are probably there for safety. And, uh, I, I think that might be, that I can come up with at the moment. The only place that I think rules have within the system of reiki, because, other rules like, you must do this, you must do, that tend to be, things that, as I said, a human created and they will actually get in the way of something which is an experiential practice. So there are guidelines, for example, the precepts. They're guidelines, but they're not rules. There's guidelines on how you might do a practice, so how you might, do joshing coho. But as we know, there are possible different thoughts and ways and of doing that. So fixing to something too hard is not going to allow, the freedom of experience to, flourish. That's my feeling. If we were to look then at, ritual. Yeah. ritual as the alternative to rules. So sometimes I think we, we do need to define what we're doing and why we're doing it, and ritual can be really helpful. So for example, if I were to go into a Reiki treatment and, I have a certain ritual that I might need to do beforehand to actually ground myself, make myself feel prepared and ready. It might be a meditation, it might be kujo, dry bathing. Yeah. Uh, it might be, that I say an affirmation to myself, whatever it is. These are things that are quite personal. And, they're not about the safety of the client, but they are there to prepare me, to help me move into a space that will actually create a fantastic treatment for myself and the client. I'm just using treatment as an example, but you could use it for your own practice teaching any aspect of the system of reiki. So ritual is there to support us, and ritual might be something that we can move on from or shift or change. So it isn't a fixed thing. Oh, I can think of other rituals which are really helpful. Things like maybe music, candles, things like that. And they're things that you don't have to have, but they's nice to have, right? So just setting up nice little things and they're not rules, they're not something that's fixed. There are differences between the two. And, um, I'd love to hear what you carry. Might have to think about all of this subject. I think I really, uh, it's a fascinating topic, right? And I, I probably share that same mindset as you probably, as I'm not usually a big fan of rules. I'll question them. I have this kind of subconscious rebel and she, she just doesn't really like listening to rules, you know, rule-based logic and thinking that doesn't really come from a very conscious place is, is typically something that I will immediately snuff out and immediately walk and really immediately, like, you know, not want to do something like that. But, you know, there are rules that are common sense, right? And in society, I think we need rules of what, what you were saying, you know, Bronwyn, Socher, like, you know, ethical boundaries with clients. That's super important. It's kind of like the rules at a four-way stop sign, you know, we need rules to keep the flow of traffic going. And um, you know, and I, it actually got me thinking a little bit about spiritual laws that maybe we're working with 'cause we're working with spiritual energy that we, you know, like maybe there's like a threeway stop sign, our client, our energy, the universal energy, and we're all kind of coming together in a session organ in a treatment or in training, um, and other circumstances. And so there's that harmonizing that needs to happen. And I think that that's kind of what we're trying to actualize when we talk about, you know, setting your ego aside or, um, you know, is, is trying to be in touch with that bigger picture. Right? Um, and this kind of non-hierarchical, hierarchical way of working with somebody. Um, yeah, so I think it's a healthy question of, you know, what rules really support, you know, the process with reiki and then, but what, what you were leaning into Bronwyn is, is this like a much more nuanced and free way of thinking about a ritual, you know, has something different than rules. And, um, you know, I think, um, it's helpful to question rules and, you know, sometimes they might come back in as important or essential, you know, when we, we kind of see that from a bigger perspective. Um, but for our students and for those, you know, all of us on the path with reiki, you know, it's good to question those. And I think, you know, Reiki is really a practice that is, is coming out of maybe a. A revolution in society where we're moving away from religious dogma and trying to not, you know, not live from a place of rules like, you know, don't have sex before you're married or, um, you know, don't get divorced or you're going to hell. Like those kinds of rules, you know, obviously have really impacted people's lives, their happiness, um, you know, what society tells us and expects from us. Um, so it's it in a spiritual practice, actually, I've had to rework those so many times, right? Like so many times where actually what me being true to my way is, is, is, is to not hold self-limiting beliefs or self judgmental beliefs about certain things that may have happened to me or certain things. Choices that I've made. Um, but to really accept myself for, you know, my imperfections, um, my strengths, my weaknesses, my vulnerabilities, and so forth. So, um, you know, but I think there's, this is benefit of a ritual too, and I've been, uh, struggling with this in one aspect of my practice lately is, uh, well, I, I attend, uh, your weekly reju, often Bronwyn, and I just absolutely love it. I love stopping my day for 15 minutes and sitting with Reju as a ritual, as a part of my spiritual practice. Just this notion of like tuning in and harmonizing myself with reiki. Like that's something that carries me through the week and I absolutely love it. So I've been kind of adopting Reju in my prerecorded courses and it, it. It's a struggle. I'm not, I'm not really sure because there's a lot of intersections here, right? There's a place where other people, other practitioners of reiki might feel like, oh, totally against doing a prerecorded ratio. Um, you know, and have some, some issue with that. And, and maybe there is, um, a space for that, I'm not sure. But I, I've also just been loving it because I feel like when you invest in a course, there's, there's this energy, especially with the reiki course, right? There's this energy of. That choice and that, that coming together. And so I felt like, you know, doing a ratio ritual, prerecorded ritual was just a way of really welcoming people into that energy of the course, whatever it has for them. I know it's a, it's a, it's a nuance and maybe a little avantgarde with, of, of, of a, applying that ritual, right? Because of course Resu, you know, some traditionals might say you'd only do it in person. Um, you wouldn't do it online, you wouldn't do it in a prerecorded way. Um, and yeah, so, you know, it's, it's interesting how, you know, our own rituals, you know, we have this freedom inside of our own practice, you know, in my own business of how I choose to represent reiki. And, but it's also part of a whole too, right? Like, is that going to be a positive thing, a positive contribution to reiki or a negative contribution? I've really questioned that. And um, I'm not sure if I know the answers yet, but, um, I do, I really do think, uh, you know, that's a question that I have. But one other comment I'll say before I pass it over to you and Mikayla is that, you know, a little ritual goes a long way. And I know for myself, it's not so much when I'm, um, you know, leading, uh, or, uh, guiding a reiki session or providing a reiki session, but when I'm guiding a yoga class and sometimes with a Reiki training too, it's really helpful to have a ritual before I step into that role because I get a little nervous and my tendency is to go into this place where I feel responsible for everybody else in the room and their experience. And, um. You know, I, I mean, I can get really stuck in my head about that and, and it, you know, it might take me a while to kind of, or because of the nervousness of the situation, you know, I, I'm not able to really drop in into that facilitated role, but like a little ritual with that helps me so much like a, a mantra that I can tell myself, um, a, you know, a mindful moment of just being grateful for the group that's gathered. Um, you know, trying to align myself so that, you know, I can, um, be in a good place to, to give them a good experience, a quality experience. Um, and I know for myself, I love a little ritual before a reiki session too. So I've been taking to using a singing bowl and just having a moment with a singing bowl, a Kenya co lighting a candle, you know, um, some time in Gacho giving a reiki to this space and. Thinking about my client coming, you know, all of those things, like, I just think really help us and enhance the session. Um, and what's what's surprising for me when I find that is that, you know, Reiki Hass been there, reikis been like gathering, you know, all the pits and pieces and all the intentions of the client myself. And, and then when, when the client is there, the energy's there. And it's not like this poorly thought out. It's like spirit's there. Guiding the session is such a beautiful thing to feel into. So, okay, I was blabbering on it. Isn't that what we're here to do? Just flab on about whatever thoughts come into our mind. Oh man. You know, it's funny that you, um, that we landed on this topic 'cause I, uh, one of my just kind of. Mindless entertainment, um, outlets is to listen to, uh, trial coverage and legal analysis on YouTube. Um, and it's, it's, it's more entertaining than it sounds. A couple of lawyers who are just hilarious, snarky, ridiculous people who also educate us about the law. And, uh, one of them, my favorite one, um, who's very A DHD brained like me, and she's super quirky and funny and snarky and weird. Um, and she also, I self identifies as an adamant rule follower. Which in my mind kind of is in contrast to those other qualities. And so that kind of caught my intention and she said it again today. And I, and I got to thinking, am I a rule follower? Like do I relate to that idea of being a rule follower or a rule breaker? You know, like where am I on the spectrum of following rules? Um, so I was having those thoughts today. Um, and you know, I, I found myself feeling a little bit neutral on the topic. Like, I'm not a rule follower, as in, I'm like anxious about knowing the rules and following the rules, but I'm also not like, you know, resistant to the rules. So when this topic came up, I, I was like, let me come back to like, what do we mean when we say rules, right? Because I think that's like many things with language, one of those things that we can mean a lot of different things. So I just went to the Oxford English dictionary 'cause why not? And the, you know, first definition of the word rule under noun is one of a set of explicit or understood regulations or principles governing conduct within a particular activity or sphere. So I've applied that to my reiki practice, both doing sessions with folks and in teaching and, you know, do I, do I have that? Yeah, I absolutely have sometimes explicit, sometimes implicitly understood regulations or principles that govern my activity inside of those spaces. Um, I think the difference is that I never have really thought of it in terms of rules. I've put different words on it. So I, I think I would more commonly refer to those as values, like governing values, and then processes and procedures that help me to enact those values, you know, put them into practice inside of those spaces. Um. You know, the, the Reiki community, I think, does tend to have a rural resistant streak. Uh, I think that's part of why the conversations around regulation are so charged. Um, we have talked about regulation within Reiki, um, on past episodes, you know how to think about it, you know, what might make sense as far as putting some regulations in, in place within the reiki industry. Where would those be? You know, where, where does it become too confining? Where does it make sense? And in the absence of formalized rules, which essentially we have a almost total absence of formalized rules within the Reiki community. Aside from what comes to us through our, our teachers and our, our, you know, individual smaller communities, right? We like individual practitioners or groups might have their own governing rules, but as a, you know, industry, you know, as it were, um, you know, the, the, the only real rules are the ones that govern business, right? So people who are in business, of course, have to follow the rules of paying taxes, of having insurance, of, you know, all of these things that are kind of imposed from the government. Um, but nevermind those. If we think about, you know, that that idea of having governing principles and processes that help to dictate how we conduct our practice, um, I would suspect that we all have some version of that. And again, we might think about it in different terms. And so. You know, I have a set of values that are very strongly present and, and governing of my reiki business. And then those get enacted through processes and procedures and policies that are self imply, you know, self-imposed. They're not being imposed by anyone else that help me to know how to operate the spaces that I am in charge of. And then we bring ritual alongside, which is such an interesting thing to, to bring alongside, because I think prior to this conversation I would've thought of those as kind of separate things. But as I worked with it in my mind I was like, no, they really do come alongside each other and they, they work together. The rituals within my practice are the ways in which those values and procedures and guidelines get enacted in my practice in a way that is imbued with sacred. Energy and with significance and meaning. So for me, you know, ritual, which is something that I've studied quite a bit about, I've taught classes around kind of the art of spontaneous ritual, how to weave spontaneous ritual into one's classes, you know, teaching spaces, community spaces. Um, that one leads. Um, you know, for me a ritual is a, a series of actions, whether they are kind of set and repeated, you know, it's done more or less the same way each time. Or spontaneous and fluid that confer significance, that kind of create a space, an opening in the flow of what's happening that says, let's take a pause. Let's bring our attention to what's happening. What's happening has some significance. It matters and it is connected to the wider web of life or to spirit, or to the energy that we are here to do. And that's true, whether it's happening in the kitchen while I'm cooking something or in a reiki class or in the garden or in a conversation with a friend, um, just about any context one can apply this principle that it's possible to kind of bring a, a, a bubble into that space that puts, that slows down the action, that brings our attention to something that has significance, that imbues it with some form of energy that's beyond the logistics of what's happening. And, um, kind of creates some, some importance around that moment. So I was trying to think of examples of how, how that looks in practice. Right. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna try two examples. So when it comes to both teaching and. Working with clients in Reiki sessions, I'll focus on Reiki sessions. One of my strong values is to conduct those spaces in a way that's trauma informed and ethical. And I think Bronwyn, you really nailed it when you said like, the place that we really, where rules are really important. And, and really the only place that I would really wanna see regulation come into our industry is in the realm of ethics, safety, um, you know, trauma informed care, things like that. I don't really wanna see like, regulation come into like, what is your, um, curriculum supposed to look like in a reiki class, right? But, um, when it comes to safety, ethics, um, you know, ethical conduct, I, I actually do think that our industry should regulate some of that. Separate conversation, but that's part of the rules or the values, the principles, guidelines that I hold for my practice. And so how does that get enacted? Well, a lot of ways, but you know, one of those ways is, um, careful, uh, disclosure to clients about what they can expect, where they have choice. Um, you know, just laying out what they're gonna experience and giving them opportunities to ask questions and to consent to what they're going to experience. Then during the session, um, you know, using, um, you know, specific, uh, guidelines around the hand placements that I use, or certain par parts of the body that I just am not going to touch because that, you know, is not going to be part of the ethical framework and a procedure or a policy of paying close attention to where my hands are on the body. So that's just one kind of focused example. Um, so I'm working with a, with a client. I'm in that zone. My eyes are closed. I'm, I'm working, you know, through it. And every time I move to a different placement, my, my, my process, which then becomes a ritual via the way that I focus on it, is to pause, to look at my client, to pay attention to where my hands are gonna land in the next hand placement and then come back into my practice. So that's both a response to a rule that I have. It is a procedure that is consistent in my practice, and for the most part becomes a ritual in the way that I enact it. Because I am conferring significance on the values and that moment, the interaction I'm having, I am in my reiki practice, so I'm in a sacred place and the process of looking at my client is not it, it's, it is procedural and transactional in that I'm making sure my hand is in the right place and that I'm not overstepping anywhere. But it's also part of the connection with that client, right? I'm reminding myself that I'm not just separate in my own world and them in their own world. We're here together in this connected space. And so reconnecting with them through the sense of sight is a way to ritualize that for me. So hopefully that was clear the way that kind of flowed. So that's a ritual that responds to a, a procedure that responds to a set of values that govern how I operate my Reiki sessions. And I think it's fair to say that that is a set of rules. That I have, if we look at teaching, um, well in both spaces, but I'll shift over to teaching. Um, there are certainly equivalents of, of that kind of direct linear connection between values, procedures, rules, and ritual. Um, but there's also spontaneous ritual and I love spontaneous ritual. And this is, you know, again, connected to a value that I have in my teaching, which is that, um, I'm there to facilitate direct experience with and for my students or the community members who have gathered, if it's more of a community ritual. So facilitating a direct experience, a sacred experience, a learning experience, right? An experience where they get to learn, but that learning is embedded inside of sacred experience. That's a value that I have. So how do we operationalize that, right? So there's procedures that that operationalize that. We always begin with a bit of practice before we go into talking about logistics or speaking, right? So we put ritual at the front of every class session. That becomes something students can rely on. They can count on it. They know that they're gonna have an opportunity to drop in and relax and get centered before we talk about whatever the subject is for the day. But then there's those moments of spontaneous ritual, because another value that I have when working with clients and students is that what they bring into the space. Things that they're working with, things that matter to them, things that are bothering them, things that come up spontaneously, emotions, thoughts, ideas, insights, um, traumas even in the moment in response to the practice. Um, that all of that is just as important as whatever it is that I have prepared for the day. And I call that the implicit curriculum in the rule, excuse me, the implicit curriculum in the room, the, the curriculum that I didn't prepare. But it's there and it's important. And the way that we leverage that is by noticing these moments when the energy shifts because of something that's happening with somebody and taking a pause, putting space around that moment and dropping into a spontaneous ritual that might, you know, it's often quite short. Right? Something kind of quick. But that has all of those elements of conferring significance on that moment, acknowledging what's happening that's separate from what we were in the middle of doing, that it matters, that it has significance and it deserves space, and then being fluid and creative in responding to that. Just a quick example of that, if all of that seemed confusing, um, we had, uh, a student who in the midst of some teaching, um, was talking about their cat who had died recently and talking about the cat had come kind of anecdotally through whatever, whatever we were talking about in that moment, and unplanned to them, they were overwhelmed with the emotion of losing their cat. They weren't talking about the cat to be emotional about the cat. It was just an example. But in referencing this cat, they had just lost, they got overwhelmed with the emotion of it. And those moments can be awkward in teaching, right? Somebody's overcome with emotion. Maybe they're crying, maybe their, you know, their voice is stunted, they can't keep talking about it. Those moments are pure magic inside of a, of a class because that's when the whole point of why we're here to be in sacred response to life is really at the surface. And we don't wanna hijack the whole rest of the class to deal with whatever that is, right? And so a short, spontaneous ritual can help to hold all of that. So in this case, we just, you know, I acknowledged that the emotion was coming up. I just invited us all to take a breath together. To just drop into our hara together. Um, and I kind of paid attention to the circle and I, I noticed somebody was also kind of activated by the emotion and I invited them to find something in the room that called their attention. They went and found something, they put it in front of the other student and a song came to my mind and I shared that song and, um, somebody else did something else. You know, there was just like, people started contributing spontaneously and the person got to have a good cry for a minute and then feel really grateful for being held in this space. And then we moved on with no other fanfare and the whole thing took maybe four or five minutes. And so, you know, again, you could say that I have a rule for my classes that says. What the students are experiencing, what comes up for them in the moment, the material that matters to them is just as important as what I've prepared for class. But how do you make room for that? The way that I make room for that is through ritual. And, and so I'm really, I'm appreciating this conversation for giving me a chance to really notice that connection, right? The direct link between those two things that I might have previously thought were separate from each other. Um, and the ways in which rules that we often think of as being rigid, being, you know, dogmatic. And Carrie, you talked about the ways in which rules that are held very rigidly that are held with ill intent or that are left unexamined for long periods of time, um, can absolutely be harmful to us. And I think we need to examine the rules that govern our behavior. Absolutely. But do we need to not have rules? I don't think so. I think we need them, right? We can put different words on them. Values, processes, guidelines, right? As you pointed about Bronwyn, the, the precepts are a form of rules with flexibility. So we could say guidelines, right? Um, or precepts, actually just call 'em what they are. So yeah, so that's, that's what came up, um, for me. And the ways in which balancing and leveraging and being in dynamic relationship with the guidelines, the rules that govern that help to create structure for what we're doing and then operationalizing them through ritual, I think is part of what distinguishes what we're up to, right? Like the way that we operate as. Reiki practitioners and one of my favorite things in the world is to go into places that are very different from that. To go into government offices, to go into nonprofits, to go into businesses, into schools that don't consider themselves a spiritual space, and to bring ritual into those spaces and to show them this same connection between the way that ritual can enliven and, and, you know, oxygenate the rules that govern how we operate and to bring them to life and allow us to be responsive and nimble inside of them. And at that, I wanna invite us to share some of the ways in which we're creating sacred spaces. In our businesses because this podcast is sponsored by us, the three of us, uh, make this work possible and bring it to you through the endeavors of our three, uh, very beautiful businesses. And so I'd love to just pause here and give the, the three of us a chance to just share what's coming up, uh, Bronwyn, what's coming up through Ricky with Bronwyn. Yeah. Well, I think Carrie's already mentioned something that I do, which is I do a weekly radio and that is 15 minutes out of your day on a Friday in Australia, Thursday afternoon in most of the rest of the world. And, uh, all, all very late in the evening in the UK and Europe. And, uh, just depends on the season. 'cause these times they just keep a changing. So, uh, we do need to keep an eye on that. Maybe I should just say, come and join us and see, and you'll actually see what the experience is for yourself rather than it being something that I try to tie down for you. I can tell you it's all about life and living, an aware life. So, um, come join me. You'll find the link on my website, Reiki with Bronwyn. How about you, Carrie? Oh, I love, I love me a good Reiki with Bronwyn. I raised you with Bronwyn. Um. So, um, yeah, so I mean, you know, what's really up for me right now is the GoPro with Reiki mentorship program. I'm, uh, inviting in a new class for a 12 month journey together to, um, receive support and mentorship in the process of building your Reiki business. And it's been so awesome. I, the early bird discount is actually ending this Friday. And, um, so having some new folks flow into the program, which is just super exciting and, um, really, uh, wonderful for us to like be in community in the process of building a reiki business because I know I did it so much alone, kind of pulling up you myself up by my own bootstraps and it was a painful and boring way to build a business. And what I'm so loving in my current group of the GoPro with Reiki mentorship program's, just people are so, um. Yeah, just getting so much out of it, you know, getting so much out of the hour long support that we have for each other, the different packets and windows that the, the program provides. So, um, you're interested in the GoPro with Reiki mentorship program? My current class, um, I'm opening, or, you know, it's open for registration through the end of September. Um, the early bird discount expiring this Friday. And, um, yeah, love to see some of our friends from the Reiki Women podcast in the program. What about you, miss Mikayla? Yes. And I know you're speaking on some of the content in that program in the Reiki business summit that's coming up in September. You and I both are speaking there, so, um, that enrollment is also going on. Um, speaking of enrollment going on, uh, I think by the time this podcast is out, but at any rate, August 1st is the open enrollment for my nine month reiki program, which is one of my favorite things that I get to do. Um, I'm so proud of this program. It was in development for about three years and, uh, really, um. Has reached its, its stride in the last year. Um, and this is basically a, a nine month deep dive through the whole system of reiki from Reiki one, Odin through den. Lots of, um, individual support, group support, uh, supplementary material, um, other types of classes, practice spaces, one-on-one sessions, um, with me and my co-teachers and student assistants. Um, and just a really beautiful, spacious, okay, there's slamming going on in my house. I wanna say that again. Just a beautiful, spacious, uh, and very responsive, uh, way to learn the system of reiki in a, uh, profound, deep, comprehensive way from the perspective of its Japanese origins. Um, and so. If you have, uh, taken reiki in a Western format and want to dive into its Japanese origins, or you just wanna reengage, um, in that process, or you're brand new to Reiki, uh, this, this program has got something for you and enrollment is now open and we begin in October. So that is what is coming up over here at Hardscapes Reiki, and I'm gonna pass it back to you Wyn, with, uh, with, with maybe some closing words on this really engaging topic of rules and ritual. Yeah. Well, thank you for defining things there, Mikayla. The word that came to mind for me was the word routine, I guess. For me, that was, would be the word that I take away from what you were saying, Mikayla. So this idea that, with everything that we are doing, it's routine and, and routine is made up of different elements. And I would say that my routine is made up of rules, which are, as we were saying, for safety, for ethics, and also made up with rituals. So things that I enjoy doing or I feel in that moment that I need to do that, that is appropriate to help bring me into that specific space. So the other thing I was thinking about that is that I'm sure, even though I say I don't do rules, I'm sure I do do rules to some degree. And, however, they're probably my own rules. Because this is my own understanding of the world and what that world is. I think I would try not to put rules on other people. Because it's their own experience, their own world, and what's happening for them. And I can't have insight totally into what that is. So I guess I probably do create my own rules and, and, I do love, creating routine to support me. And I think that if we really look at our lives, we are creating routine all the time in our everyday lives with everything that we do. How we make a cup of tea, to how we might interact with different people in our lives. We are routine beings and, that supports us in, creating a life that works for us and makes us feel comfortable and safe. Yeah, so I think routine can also make us feel safe as much as rules, helping us be safe so we can come at it from a lot of different angles. And so thinking about this as life because I think the system of reiki is, yes, it's a whole bunch of different things, but ultimately it's just about living our lives and, bringing things into our lives that help us feel that connection more that we have with everything in life. Ray. Yeah, spiritual energy, the basis foundation of everything that flow and movement and us being a part of it. And how do we do that? We do it through both, I would say probably rules and ritual routine. We were talking about doing, radio for example. I think that that is about life. That's just about living life. And if we can find moments in our time that can bring us, draw us into experiencing life. For what it is right now. That is perfection, that is wholeness, that is completeness. So those are the things that I would really, like to bring more into my own life. Ways of connecting into who I am right now in my universe, in my world, what I understand, and how I am. So, yeah, possibly both can be there for me to support me in that. How about you, Carrie? Well, I just, I'm really enjoying where this conversation has taked us and, um, I appreciate Mikayla, what you had to say. And I just really wanna acknowledge you for how thoughtfully you've put your values and weave them into your business that it's really admirable and it's really cool that you're like, no, this is my core value and I am going to express it in this myriad of different ways. Um, I can't say that I feel like I've put that much thought and, uh, you know, intention in that, in my own reiki business, but it's really cool to see how you have done that. And, um, and it's, it's just such an example of how, you know, when we have outlined what our values are, we can really use them as a compass when we are working with clients, when we're in those real life experiences, um, sharing reiki. So I love that. And, um, I love too, what you were saying, Bronwyn, it's like. I agree. I think that there's like this, this balance right between rules and ritual or, you know, I, it's so interesting because I feel like, you know, some people will really gravitate towards ritual or rules, like, like in a yoga class. I mean, there's so many different styles of yoga, right? But there's styles of yoga that are very rigid and just, you know, you do the same practice every time and this is what the practice is. And, and it's kind of like, it, it's bolstered both by the teacher but also the people in the room because we're all we're aware of like, that's the ritual, or you do this pose after that pose, et cetera. Right? Um, I tend to not teach that, but I find that, you know, if you go completely rogue every time and your class is completely different every time. That, that also doesn't really, really all it, it attracts maybe a certain kind of client, but it doesn't always bring that sense of groundness and, and a dropping into a shared experience. Um, and so I think that's really important too. And I'm just, I'm just thinking about just the balance between that, right? Like how when we're sharing a community based practice or sharing a practice with more than ones ourselves, how do we, um, create just like these guidelines and these kind of structures that just help people step more fully into, um, you know, a generous experience of reiki and or whatever we're leading in that moment. The dog's ready for his walk. So I'm gonna pass it over to you, Mikayla, and have, uh, let hear your final thoughts. Yeah, I love it. The animals have entered the chat here. They're, they're like, we have something to say. Excuse us. Um, yeah, I mean, you know what, what it really comes down to is in what ways do we create the container of our practice, right? What is the structure, what is the bones of how we un, you know, create a space within which to do our practice? Um, and it's beautiful that we have so much flexibility in how we can do that. Um, and you know, with that flexibility, we also have a great deal of responsibility because again, there isn't an external force telling us exactly how we're supposed to structure things and what the rules are about how we're supposed to conduct a session and so on. And so we have this beautiful balance between, you know, needing structure, needing to be able to, uh, create some form of consistency for the people who step into our space and for ourselves. Some form of predictability, but also to hold that sense of flexibility, that sense of mystery, uh, that sense of spontaneity, of creativity, um, so that our spaces can be alive and they can be responsive and they can be generative, which is, you know, certainly how I wanna live my life and do my practice. Um, and I wanna really model that for other spaces, you know, as I say, working in. Other types of industries, uh, bringing ritual into those spaces where you wouldn't necessarily think that ritual belongs. But I'm here to tell you, it belongs everywhere. Anywhere that we have structure, anywhere that we have people gathering anywhere, that we have a person going through their day, we have the opportunity for ritual, and ritual can enhance that experience. As long as we don't allow it to become rigid, we don't allow it to just be rote. We're just doing it just because as long as we don't allow it to be unexamined and that goes for rules and ritual and values and guidelines and procedures and processes and precepts and all of these words that we've been using, I think we can, we can really. Boil it down, Elise, I, I'm boiling it down to how do we create structure and what we're doing. How do we confer significance onto that structure and how do we remain, um, self-reflective and continue to examine that structure so that it remains alive and relevant and doesn't just become something rigid that we do just because, um, I think that's where rituals and rules can both, you know, cause harm if they remain unexamined. And so, yeah, that's, that's where I land, um, in this, I'm really grateful for. The structures that, that I've been able to create in my business and in our community. Um, and I'm really, uh, you know, I think it's something that's worth continuing to talk about. And so thank you Bronwyn, for bringing this topic up. Friends, we would love to hear from you. Um, what is your response to this? Are you a rule follower? Are you a person who rejects the rules, who wants to, to, you know, feel uninhibited? And if so, how do you create structure? What, what are the, the concepts that you use to help yourself feel? Um. Contained and responsive, um, in the way that you go about your riki practice and your daily life. Uh, what are the rituals that you incorporate into those spaces and, um, how do you relate to them? We would love to know. We'd love to have that conversation with you down in the chat. So please do comment below, um, like this video, share it with your friends who you wanna have this conversation with, and do subscribe to this channel so that you can be notified as soon as we come with you on another topic, another conversation of Ricky Women Podcast. Alright, friends, that'll do it for us today. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll be with you next time. Bye.