RWP Episode #180: Is Reiki a Gateway to Psychedelic Experiences with Reiki Women Podcast

In this episode of the Reiki Women podcast, the hosts discuss the misconception that the aim of Reiki is to achieve intense, ecstatic spiritual experiences. 
They explore the true purpose of Reiki practice, emphasizing personal growth, emotional regulation, and a deeper connection to one's true self. 
The conversation touches on cultural influences, the difference between thrill-seeking and meaningful practice, and the importance of intention and expectation in spiritual work. 
Join the discussion on the balance between seeking profound experiences and finding everyday calm and clarity through Reiki.

00:00 Introduction: Measuring Success in Reiki
02:10 Welcome to the Reiki Women Podcast
02:16 Is Reiki a Gateway to Spiritual Experiences?
03:08 Personal Experiences and Cultural Context
04:45 The True Purpose of Reiki
06:21 Reiki and Personal Growth
08:05 Balancing Expectations and Reality
12:32 Emotional Regulation and Reiki
14:42 Daily Life and Spiritual Practices
19:46 Integrating Reiki into Everyday Life
32:33 Conclusion: Finding Balance and Calm

Hosts
Bronwen Logan: https://ReikiwithBronwen.com
Carrie Varela: https://www.reikihealingsociety.com
Michaela Daystar: http://HeartscapesInsight.com

Our email: reikiwomenpodcasts@gmail.com

Our own RWP Facebook Group discussion: Embodying Reiki
   / 1564135767437136

Transcript

0:05

There can be a tendency for some people to want to measure the success or the power of a practice based on having some form of ecstatic experience or intense experience. I always feel like people don't like talking about this in a critical way, but it feels to me competitive to a large degree that it's like, well, I had these experiences and then someone else, that sort of like stirs that little ego person in there and it's like, oh, I wanna, I wanna be like that. this is your time actually for you to figure yourself out, for you to make that sacred connection to your true self and really form that stronger connection. Welcome back, everyone to the Reiki Women podcast. It's so joyful to have you here today. Today we're gonna be talking about, is the aim or purpose of Reiki to have strong or overwhelming spiritual experiences, visions, insights, downloads. Almost akin to having, a spirit medicine journey, including some, some form of psychedelic. So is, is Reiki a gateway to those kinds of experiences? Is that what we should be aiming for inside of our Reiki practice. and so we thought that there might be a lot of, different threads of discussion here that we wanted to share with you on the Reiki podcast today. So I'm gonna pass it over to you, Michaela. What do you think are, is Reiki a gateway to, out of body spiritual experiences and journeys? Well, I will say that in my experience, no. I think that, I think I, well, I think this is a layered conversation. I'm really curious to see what comes up for each of us. it's the sort of topic that has come up at a number of times over the years in conversations with clients, with other students, with folks who are in different traditions and that intersects, I think, with our cultural context of living in a world that is, that tends to be kind of thrill seeking, western modern culture with technology being what it is and. All of the ways in which we can get kind of numbed out in our life and the way in which we get disconnected from life, from nature, from, kind of senses of awe and and wonder that come to us naturally. There's so many things that get in the way of that for us in our daily life that there can tend to be this kind of thrill seeking backlash that comes from that. And I see that in a lot of ways in our Reiki community and other spiritual communities where. There can be a, a tendency for some people to want to kind of measure the success or the power of a practice based on having some form of ecstatic experience or intense experience. something that really, blows your mind or gives you physical or mental emotional sensations that are off the charts or at least kind of beyond our daily experience. And while it's, certainly common to experience some form of kind of hyper-awareness when we're in a Reiki session. Generally speaking, that's not the intended outcome of the practice. And we can look at, the origins of Reiki, what the actual intended outcome of the practice is, and we can look to our actual experience that we can unpack a bit. But I think the reason that this conversation feels kind of alive for me is that there has been moments when there's a certain disappointment when those kinds of experiences don't come in a Reiki session or during practice. and it feels like it's ineffective and, again, I have to come back to, but what is the intended outcome of the practice? there's a lot of stories that come up for me around this, but I wanna get some of y'all's initial thoughts before jumping into any of those. What about for you, Bronwen? Yeah. well, one thing I think is to remember that it's a Japanese practice, and I think that maybe is a little bit of a key here. and that the system's origins come from, the Shinto Buddhist, influences and, I would think that a lot of the more, new age practices are possibly more in line with that. I'm thinking maybe Kundalini yoga, I don't know. Do you guys have any experience with that? Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Things where you're having these responses. it's a different type of practice to that. one thing that I think looking at Buddhist influences is to think, why are we actually doing it? And I would say that in a very simple term, we could say that what we are doing is trying to support ourselves in moving from ignorance to wisdom. Mm-hmm. That doesn't necessarily mean having those sorts of experiences. We could think of that in other terms as thinking of it as awareness. So, greater awareness of who we are, but it's not really, a competitive thing. And I sometimes feel like that, this idea of, oh, I had this and this happened and I did. I always feel like people don't like talking about this in a critical way, but it feels to me competitive to a large degree that it's like, well, I had these experiences and then someone else, that sort of like stirs that little ego person in there and it's like, oh, I wanna, I wanna be like that. I wanna do that. Can I do that? It sort of grows. And it also imbues the person who is telling the story. And I do think often it is a story. We create these stories. it creates a sort of a power, over another person. There's something that I know that you don't. Mm-hmm. And that's where this can all go in a negative sense. Yeah. I'm sure that there are within these practices, and they're not Reiki practices, but within those sorts of practices where you do have more extreme, responses, that there are some really positive things that can come out I can only really talk from the Reiki experience, if you like. And for me, the Reiki experience, as I said, is sort of like this personal growth. And that doesn't really fit into maybe that world as such. It's not to say that people can't have visions or see colors and my question there is, does that really matter? It's something that I wouldn't share with someone else. So it's something that I don't really feel that it's really anyone else's business and it's personal experience and it's not really something to attach to. What we ultimately wanna do is to let go into that wisdom, into that truth of our experience of who we are in this moment, in this life. That's my experience. How about the woman with the new bangs? Wow, so cute. Very cute. it's also quite fun to have a new look and, yeah. it's some form of entertainment or, exotic experiences. I'm just joking. I mean, I think I, I appreciate what you were saying, Bronwen. first of all, I think from the practitioner place, when the practitioner is having psychedelic or kind of really, intense visions, visuals with a client, and really related to more doing like spiritual mediumship work, right? Where they're connecting with their spirit guides or something like that. Not, not doing that in a way that is informed, or informing the client. I think that can te certainly te set up a power dynamic, as the practitioner to the client. So the client's like, well, what did you, what did you figure out about me in the session? Or what do you know now about me in the session? It's just like, and it's like, that's not the point is actually I just. Sitting here with you, supporting you, balancing your energy, noticing what I'm noticing, certainly. But it's not like I'm, here figuring you out. It's, it's also about, this is your time actually for you to figure yourself out, for you to make that sacred connection to your true self and, and really form that stronger connection. Know to feel it. notice when you feel in line with it, in alignment with it when you don't. And so I've had over the years, a lot of clients have come to me who, who are really seeking those kind of ecstatic experiences. And, it's always just a little cloudy when that happens, if that's really the goal of why they wanna work with Reiki because first of all, in my practice I don't really work with angels or guides or do spiritual mediumship work. More focused on Reiki, on the energy transmission to the client. And, I tend to, if anything in a session I'm, I'm guiding with poignant questions or words or guided meditation that supports them to actually access their own inner knowing rather than me ever telling them what's going on for them. and so I feel like that's an important distinction. But when a client is seeking those kind of experiences and like coming to a practitioner with an expectation that they'll get that, or, have some sort of that, I think it does set up any expectation sets up a block, of Reiki coming to you. 'cause it just, it's like. uh, for example, I had a client once who said, oh, one time I had this Reiki session and I felt like I had this glowing orb of energy from my head to my feet, and it just fully surrounded me. And it was this really, and it sounded like a really cool experience. But, working with that client in this particular situation, it's like they wanted to repeat. That experience and it was actually you, irre repeatable it, it was a really you, and that's the case with working with spiritual energy is you never get the same thing twice. And that's what's kind of challenging. you might see you, you get insights and clarity and wisdom, which is present in the moment. It's not something that always can be re replicated I mean, that's the lesson as far as I'm concerned, that's what helps us to start letting go, right? And just be present in the moment. And yeah, I mean, sometimes those experiences certainly happen. and they happen to me a lot, but they don't necessarily. it's not necessarily like a good thing. Like I feel like they're really disconnecting more than anything. It really doesn't help me feel grounded in my life. And so, when I'm working with Reiki, one of the outcomes that I wanna have after self Reiki or doing a session is just feeling more balanced, more centered in my body, or another way of. Describing this is, is one of the ways that I feel like I'm really working with my Reiki in my practice right now is emotional regulation and nervous system regulation. So really like, how can I work with those, whirling thoughts and feelings, find some clarity and all of, the different thoughts that I'm thinking and, and working through my own trauma as well. So. I'll pause there. I'd love to hear more about your thoughts, Michaela. Yeah, I, I love this distinction that both of you have made in different ways between kind of seeking experiences like that and letting go of expectation, understanding that this practice is gonna meet us where we're at on a any given moment, which means that our experiences will likely be different from session to session. And that, then your last point, Carrie, around, sometimes those experiences can be. linked to working with trauma. That's also been my experience both personally and with clients, is that oftentimes the progression is from an intensity when we are, really struggling with something and that the more we practice the e more easeful it gets. I was really reminded Of something that someone said years and years and years ago, I used to teach for a organization, called Shakti Rising, that was a women's leadership and spiritual development organization. And I taught in the community education and leadership development branch. But there was also like the center point of the organization was a, a substance abuse recovery program for women leaders. They used a lot of embodiment based practices and meditations and yoga and, really, this started like 25, 30 years ago. So really kind of on the, the forefront of, incorporating embodiment based practice into recovery and into leadership. And one of the participants who had graduated from that program. said something like, she was talking about the experience of feeling emotionally regulated just on a daily basis in her life and feeling like she could tell what she was feeling on a given day and she could respond appropriately and she felt grounded. And, a lot of the things you just named Carrie as being, ways in which we can track our, our progress and our Reiki practice. These were things she was experiencing in daily life. And she says, That's why I was taking drugs all those years. Like I thought I was looking for ecstasy and, these really, I was looking for a high, but I was actually looking for myself. I was looking for the ability to feel myself and to feel my feet on the ground and just to feel like regulated, and calm and, and feeling that way on a daily basis. It feels incredibly good, and it's also completely mundane, right? It is how we're meant to feel, but there's so much that gets in the way. And so when we're in the habit of not paying attention to what's going on inside ourselves, not being regulated, being dissociated from what we're feeling in our body because we're avoiding, as a safety mechanism, a very, Rational and incredible safety mechanism that our brains have where when things are feeling too intense, too painful, we can not pay attention to them. And then we go into a practice that has us come back into paying attention to what we're experiencing inside. And it's like there's all of these things that need to get unpacked at that point. And so often the intense experiences that people can have in sessions come from that place that like, oh. Shit. Now it's all, it has to be kind of unpacked and it can be unpacked quickly and all at once, and that can be a lot and that can be really powerful and amazing and exactly what that person needs in that moment. A skilled practitioner will be able to, to pivot and to flow and to respond to a person who goes into a space like that, understanding that this isn't, necessarily this powerful, beautiful, ecstatic experience in that instance. but it is something that could be necessary. But the thing is, once one gets to the other side of that and continues to practice, most likely the practice is gonna. Ease down, it's gonna become more soft, it's gonna become more spacious. it's gonna become less intense. The reason being our capacity to experience ourself, to feel ourself, to feel our way through the world, to experience our connection to life. Grows. I, I explained it the other way the other day to one of my students who was asking questions about this, like, it, does it get more intense when you practice longer? What if you do a Reiki session with somebody who themselves is very spiritually advanced? Does is the session more intense? And I, thought about it. I'm like, actually quite the opposite. It becomes more calm. It's like this long exhale where there's more spaciousness. There's more emptiness, right? I think one of you mentioned like moving towards letting go and being in a more empty, spacious, open space. That's not an ecstatic space necessarily, except that we can, conversely. Paradoxically, it can feel incredible and amazing and even ecstatic to experience that level of calm, that level of space, that level of letting go of there being just nothing to think about, nothing to worry about, nothing to focus on for that moment. And so we can, we can work our way back to a feeling of great awe and wonder and, emotion at feeling our own self. But again, are we seeking that outcome? Are we seeking that intense experience or are we seeking a daily life that is not attached to fear and anger that. Rooted in gratitude and compassion, and that is being true to ourself and that is open and spacious and just simply has more room for everything that we're experiencing. if we hold that, as dictated by the precepts, if we hold that as the intention for our practice, then that the way that we measure our success then, and we're not clinging onto. some measure of intensity to let us know that our practice is working. We actually look at what shows up in our day-to-day life in those mundane moments as our benchmark Then. We're gonna be in a much healthier relationship to our practice. We're gonna be more likely to stick with our practice, because we'll understand the expectations. And then when those moments of awe and wonder, and even yes, ecstasy happen, because that's what our system is meant to have in that moment. Or we really are gonna spend Time going to a really intense form of practice, then those, those experiences get to be what they are rather than the desired outcome, if that makes sense. But yeah, I just really was thinking about that, that moment when she said, this is why I was doing drugs all those years. Like this is why I kept getting high. 'cause I was trying to remember how to feel myself and now I don't need. To get high. I don't need ecstatic experience anymore 'cause I can just be with myself and it's not painful anymore. That's really powerful. Yeah. yeah. There's that Japanese thing of Wabi-Sabi for example. You know, finding beauty in the incompleteness of life. Yeah. The imperfection of life. In other words, life as it is right now. And, that is as you say, Michaela, awe inspiring and yet it's not something that we need to shout about it's an inner upwelling of experience of the mundane of just the everyday life and seeing the beauty in life. I think these are the things that the system of Reiki brings us to and gives us the space to see, to feel, to know, I dunno if you've ever had a conversation, but I have with people who can't look themselves in any sense. And when you talk to them, all they do is try to distract with other thoughts, other, other things other experiences or that they can't actually even answer a question that would take them a little deeper inside themselves. And that, I think is sometimes what we are doing when we are looking for these distractions. it's like someone trying to distract from seeing themselves. And so I wonder if a lot of these ideas of something needing to be bigger and better and greater and more amazing are simply distractions. It's almost like an inability to sit in quiet. And when things are quiet, we see things we don't wanna see. But moving into those spaces can bring us to a space of no anger, no worry, the precepts. It's not necessarily an easy path. It can be a rocky path. but it's worth it to be able to get to know ourselves and give ourselves that time and space. It is dramatic, but it's not dramatic. I don't know. It's everything in one and it's, it's not really something that I, I feel that is an easy thing to share. And it's really just something that we go through ourselves in our life and I love Carrie, you gave such a great description of what what we are looking for in reality. what we want. We want to feel, we wanna feel balanced, we wanna feel regulated, we wanna feel calm enough with that. We don't have to constantly distract ourselves with things, that we can actually sit back into the moment and take it for what it is. That's pretty special I think. That's so special. Yeah. I feel like, first of all to say just, I think we're circling around this, and it doesn't, Reiki responds to the intention of the, of the recipient, so if that's their intention, I think Reiki can be a profound, or to have an ecstatic, spiritual experience. Reiki might facilitate that. Should we be in the right mindset? Should we be open enough if we're kind of have the capacity to not just try to make something happen, but have no, an ability to silence our mind enough to be still, to perhaps form some sort of spiritual connection. So I, I do think Reiki can be that portal to spiritual connection, right? And that might be very helpful for somebody. It's never my place to judge, like why somebody needs that in this moment. as opposed to where I would wanna lean into. but at the same time those experiences can be more like entertainment. they're kind of like candy, we just keep wanting to eat that, but it's really not very nourishing. Right? It's not very like. How does this help me be a better person? Or how does this help me live a more balanced life? How does it center me in, in my own human experience? I can say that with a lot of personal experience right now. I mean, my spiritual awareness is strong and my, I don't know, maybe it's a faith of my life that I'm in, but my intuition is just this almost kind of hyper, hyper alert all the time. It's exhausting and it's its own kind of liability and, and that I, but I, I, so that soothing is just so lovely to, to have, but I mean, so I, I just kinda empathize with somebody seeking those experiences. And then once you find them, what are you gonna do with them? I'm thinking back, I had a friend who led me through this Lionsgate activation portal thing, and it was really cool and, and there's this, she had this on Zoom and she had this white lions behind her and we did this whole thing and I'm in this soul journey space and I'm seeing a half cat, half woman from Egypt. Like, these things are just happening and I don't think I'm making them up or anything. I don't really know how to. Say what that means or held ground me into a human experience. like that didn't feel very grounding or, but it felt very activating, it felt very maybe empowering or that maybe something was opening for me. And, maybe a sense that just connecting beyond the physical body, beyond this lifetime. Right. And into maybe the bigger picture of who we are. Yeah. Again, those experiences, they're wonderful and yeah, it's hard to make sense of them too. Yeah. Just a thought, I just wanna say something about that, I don't really know much about like psychedelics or things like that, but I do understand that, that some of those practices can definitely give you an inner awareness about yourself. Right. I'm certainly not down on any of that, but all, all I'm saying is that, I think that yeah, you need to know why you're going into something and what you wanna get out of it. I think that's more the point, right? Yeah. I, I think that is, yeah, I mean, just the more we're chatting, I really do think that's kind of the thesis that, that I'm landing on is like, Yes, we can seek to have an experience of a psychedelic nature for a wide variety of reasons, right? Certainly entertainment, recreation. That's the only reason I've had those experiences back in the day and now we live in a narrow, a lot of understanding and, and exploration and legitimacy to using. Plant medicine and psychedelics to have therapeutic experiences and to work through trauma and to kind of shift ourselves out of mental patterns that we're stuck inside of. And, using things that can alter our brain chemistry that kind of shift that. And I think that's compelling and amazing. To always remember that we're in relationship with these practices, and so as long as it's being done in a way that is culturally appropriate and is respectful of the culture that these practices come from, and the plants themselves as beings as life force. that can be a really beautiful practice. But again, what is the intention that we're heading into that for? And I would say that the system of Reiki, while as we've said, can be a gateway to having very intense experiences of lots of kinds. The intention comes back to how we actually live our day-to-day life. It is, and I think this is really why I'm so devoted to it and why it's had such longevity in my life that other practices haven't, is that. It, it is truly in the province of our daily life. How do we live each day and how do we wanna be in relationship with ourselves, each other, the world, every day, just for today, in this moment? And, sometimes that might include having a really trippy experience. That's cool. Right? But again, that's not the intended outcome of this, this practice. It's to actually soften and expand our sense of ourselves in a more grounded way. now of course, if we work with these practices kind of out to their edges, that also looks like practices that have us imagine and sense our unity with the universe and our own ex. Our ability, our ability for our energy and our consciousness to expand, in ways that are, out of the ordinary, that are very much outside of mundane life. And when we are in those kinds of practices and we're focused on that intention, that can be an amazing thing. Our day-to-day practice is again, about. Our day-to-day experience and being, connected in the ways that we've been describing here. So yeah, I really do think that's what it comes down to. It's not about, oh, if you wanna have this kind of experience, you do this practice and this practice doesn't do that. It's about what is our, intention and our expectations as we step into any of these practices and how. Are we in relationship with them? are we holding them with care and, with consistency and with, with right relationship? Yeah. I think Reiki in its simplest form is highly integrative so we can integrate it into our lives and that is the key. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And I think, like the therapeutic benefits of a psychedelic journey, is also can be that profound emotional awareness. I mean, I know for myself, I remember. Few years away, a few years back, I was, going this as after a breakup. And, it wasn't really related, but I had done a plant journey with that. you know, after the fact and as I was in it, I started crying and it was a really intense cry and it was like there was all this repressed sadness. I, I just hadn't had, I had the capacity to touch into and, and touch, sit with, and so I think that's where sometimes these, these things can go side by side, right? They might not, but like Reiki can also help us do that. And we don't need to have, an, an external, activation of that. Like we can just. Simply find it, if, if we, if one has developed that capacity inside of themselves to touch into their emotions and to really acknowledge them, honor them, give them the space that they need. So I think that sometimes psychedelic stuff can, can kind of throw us into that deep end, right? And we're doing that. and so yeah, it can be intense thing, but ultimately on the other side of that, what do we feel after we've emotionally regulated it's calmer, balanced, censored, clear. in the practice of yoga, they talk about, yoga is, the sensation of the anxious mind. and it's this circulating, just spinning, maybe traumatized mind that's just like, totally not centered or embodied. So, that state of yoga is, is actually beyond that. It's beyond the white water. It's beyond the waves. It's the ocean where we're, we're really out there and we feel that calmness, that safety, that clarity, so that turmoil inside of a session or inside of another experience, yeah, hopefully it takes us to that place. And I think that that's where we really wanna be living. That's where life really is happening. I love that, love that metaphor of the, the outcome being the deep water. The calm water. Even though the, the waves and the rapids and the churning is exciting, and that's where you can surf and that's where we're gonna spend a lot of our time as people who might spend time at the ocean, like the, the, the, the real deal is out there in the, the deep water with that. Hey, well, thank you all so much for joining us for this conversation. I hope it was interesting to you. I hope it can relate to some of your own experiences with either Reiki or plant medicines. Feel free to share your experiences with us in the comments. please go ahead and like our YouTube channel, join us in our Facebook group. It's called Embody Reiki. And We can't wait to share another conversation with you again very soon. Gorgeous day Blessings.