RWP Episode #196: Do We Give Our Own Energy During a Reiki Session?

We often hear the question: Am I giving my own energy during a Reiki session?

In this episode of the Reiki Women Podcast, we explore this common concern and share our understanding from both Western and Japanese perspectives of the system of Reiki. Many Western teachings distinguish between personal energy and universal Reiki energy, which can bring up worries about depletion, boundaries, picking up others’ energy, or the need for protection rituals. From the Japanese perspective, these distinctions don’t apply. Reiki is all energy, and a session is about being together in a shared space rather than “sending” or “channeling” energy from somewhere else.

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We also discuss:

🌸Two meanings of universal energy and why they matter
🌸Japanese purification practices (Kenyoku Ho and Joshin Kokyu Ho) as focus, alignment, and balance
🌸How to create sessions that support clients without fear
🌸Nervous system and energetic hygiene in practice
🌸The fourth precept: “True to my way and my being.”
🌸Consent, comfort, and practitioner responsibility

Through this conversation, we invite you to explore the system of Reiki as a shared meditative space, grounded in presence, balance, and care for both practitioner and client.

Timestamps
00:00 Reiki Isn’t ‘Sent' - It’s a Shared space of Energy
02:15 Welcome + The Big Question: Are You Using Your Own Energy in Reiki?
03:25 Michaela’s Disclaimer: Worldviews, Mystery, and Direct Experience
05:30 Western vs Japanese Reiki: Debunking ‘Personal vs Universal Energy’ Fears
08:20 Two Meanings of ‘Universal Energy’ (and Why It Changes Everything)
10:21 Bronwen’s Take: Purification as Focus, Not ‘Protection’
13:48 Reiki as Meditation: How to Explain Sessions to Clients (No Fear Needed)
16:34 What Purification Really Means: Clearing Distraction, Fear, and Attachment
19:06 Nervous Systems, Empathy, and Grounding: Practical ‘Energetic Hygiene’
22:17 Should You Treat Someone If You Feel Off? Consent, Comfort, and Balance
26:12 The 4th Precept: ‘True to My Way and My Being’ Holds the Paradox
34:06 Wrap-Up: Respecting Traditions + Fundraiser & Next Episode

#SystemOfReiki #ReikiWomenPodcast #WomenInReiki #ReikiPractice #EnergyHealing #SpiritualPodcast #HolisticHealing #ReikiRyoho #HealingCommunity #Meditation #AnimalReiki #ReikiEducation

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🌸About the Podcast
Reiki Women Podcast shares the voices of women-identified Reiki practitioners from around the world. Through stories of healing, lineage, and spiritual practice, we explore the culture and community of Reiki practice.

Join hosts Bronwen Logan, Carrie Varela, and Michaela Daystar as they reflect on the system of Reiki and the women who shape its path.

Meet the Hosts
🌿 Bronwen Logan —  @reikiwithbronwen
🌿 Carrie Varela —  @reikihealingsociety
🌿 Michaela Daystar —  @heartscapesreiki1496  

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Transcript

Speaker 2 0:00

Those distinctions don't make a lot of sense because Reiki. Spiritual energy, universal energy is all energy. It is what we are. It's, it's located within us and all around us at the same time. And when we're sharing reiki with another person, it's not that we're sending them Reiki, beaming them, Reiki channeling them reiki. We are being with them in the field of reiki that is already within us and among us, which is a bit of a esoteric way of thinking about it, right? It's much more direct and concrete to think about some resource, some pool of something that we're then sending to another person. It's more direct. But there was very different implications as far as how we act and how we feel about our practice, depending on how we think about it.

Speaker 3 0:51

if you are feeling unbalanced before a treatment, good reason to do self practice. Put that into place. Maybe do some meditation beforehand. In reality that would be a great thing to do always before you do a treatment because don't you wanna be in the most purified space? If you are in a focused space when you move into a treatment it's so different to being in a scattered space. And I know that 'cause I've done both. Hello and welcome to Reiki Women Podcast. It's me, Bronwen Logan from Reiki with Bronwen and Michaela's here, Michaela Daystar from Daystar. And we are gonna have a chat today about something to do with, energy. And, it's such, energy's such a weird thing to talk about because what is it, and, what does it feel like? Can you feel it? Can't you feel it? But even more importantly, if you are doing a reiki treatment, for example, then do you feel that. Your energy is your own, they're not the words I'd use, but your personal energy, do you feel that your personal energy is, going into this person? What do you feel is happening when you do a reiki treatment? As far as energy is concerned? I think that's the way to see it. And, Michaela, I'm gonna ask you straight off the bat, what do you think's happening there?

Speaker 2 3:47

Yeah, it's, yeah, I, I I, I love the openness of the question because it's, and the way that you asked it, what do I think is happening there? Because it's one of those questions that there are many, many answers to, and those answers are going to come from. The worldview and the perspective of the tradition that they're coming out of or the personal experience of the person sharing it. And so, my, I I have to put the disclaimer with my students that, everything that I am teaching within the system of reiki is, are things that I believe that things that align with my direct experience with the practice, with the world, there are things that make sense to me that resonate with me and that I regard as true. But I cannot guarantee that they are capital T true in terms of this is a hundred percent what is happening from a, phenomenon perspective, from a physiological perspective. and I think that's one of the things that makes. Spiritual practice is so compelling, right? It is dealing with the mystery, it's dealing with mysterious things that have yet to be, concretely proven. Even things concretely proven in science can later be found to be different than what we used to think they were. So

Speaker 5:01

yeah,

Speaker 2 5:01

when we ask a question this, where, what are we basing the answer on? So for me, I'm basing it on my direct experience and I am basing it on the perspectives of the traditions that I follow. So of course here we are following the system of reiki from the perspective of its Japanese origins as well as we can, as, western people in the year 2026. I know I will never have the particular worldview of a Japanese person from the 18 hundreds when this system was developed, but as well as we can, we're, following that tradition. And, one of the main reasons that, that, that is the version of Reiki and that is the tradition I follow, is 'cause it makes a lot of sense to me. It, it resonates with me. It feels true. Yeah. So all of that was a long kind of asterisk on the answer to my question to this

Speaker 3 5:48

question. Answer the question, will you?

Speaker 2 5:50

I know, right? Get on with it. So the, the way that this question was posed by a student, recently was around some confusion about where is, where do we find reiki? Where is it, where is it located? And therefore, when we're in a Reiki session, where is it coming from? In what way is it interacting with us? And what is it exactly that we're sharing with this other person? And it's, it's a very common perspective within Western Reiki to talk about the distinction between my personal energy, your personal energy, and then reiki energy, which is universal energy. And that's quite different than the way that the system of reiki from its origins looks at. Looks at it. There isn't this distinction between my energy, your energy, universal energy. There isn't this idea that Reiki is somewhere out there that gets channeled through us by virtue of being attuned to it and through us and into another person. There isn't this perspective that I have to make sure there's clean boundaries between my energy and your energy and reiki energy so that the right energy gets sent to the person and it doesn't get all mixed up and mingled up with personal energy. There isn't this perspective that we need to call back or, pull back our own energy or shed off another person's energy that we might have picked up by mistake in this session. And yet those are all things that I learned in my Western Reiki training way back in the day, and perspectives that I routinely, hear people share oftentimes with a fair amount of concern. Right? Have I picked up somebody else's energy? Was I a clean channel for just Reiki energy, and was I only putting Reiki energy out for this person, or was I sending my personal energy? Am I gonna deplete myself in a Reiki session if I'm accidentally sending my personal energy instead of just Reiki energy? These are some of the concerns that come up from the perspective of Reikis origins. Those distinctions don't make a lot of sense because Reiki. Spiritual energy, universal energy is all energy. It, it is what we are. It's, it's located within us and all around us at the same time. And when we're sharing reiki with another person, it's not that we're sending them Reiki, beaming them, Reiki channeling them reiki. We are being with them in the field of reiki that is already within us and among us, which is a bit of a esoteric way of thinking about it, right? It's much more direct and concrete to think about some resource, some pool of something that we're then sending to another person. It's more direct. But there was very different implications as far as how we act and how we feel about our practice, depending on how we think about it. And when I was kind of contemplating this question after my student asked it recently. Something jumped out to me that hadn't occurred to me before, which is that we're kind of dealing with two different definitions of the word universal. And universal energy is a common way of, of translating the word reiki, even if it's not the most accurate translation. but universal energy is how it's often translated. And the way that I often hear it de described then is reiki is the energy of the universe. It's out there, it's, it's up and out and all around. It's, it's out there. And when we get attuned to it, to universal energy, we gain the ability to channel that universal energy down from above through our body into another person. So that's one definition of universal energy of the universe. And the universe is out there. If we look at another just meaning of the word universal, universal means everything, All things universally, being included in the description, universal energy. In other words, reiki, the energy is all things. It's me, it's you, it's the space between us. It's this cat on my lap. It's the rain outside my window right now. It's, it's the couch I'm sitting on. Right? It's all, it's all, it's universal. It's universally applied to all things reiki energy. And that was really, I was God said, it's a useful distinction, right? If we think about how are we defining the word universal, is, gives a clue as to what worldview we're working inside of. So for me, the answer to the question, where does reiki live? Or are we sharing our own personal energy with somebody else when we're doing a Reiki session, the answer would be no. We're being with them in the field of reiki that is already present between us. That's my very long answer to the question.

Speaker 3 10:41

No, that was good. That was good. I'm not sure where to begin with that. So I'm gonna ask myself the question. Am I giving my energy in a reiki treatment? Okay. So am I giving my energy in a reiki treatment? I of course I agree with everything that you say there, and I'm just gonna see if I can add to that or give a little bit of a different angle on it. I think this idea of purification, if we look at, Japanese philosophy, there is, within it, there is this idea that, there's a lot of purification that happens, a lot of ritual that happens before other things happen, right? And, I think that can be mistaken and I. It, that the idea of purification is something that, means that you are getting rid of something so that you are this perfect being that then, shares that. And I think that's probably a western way of seeing things. because there are lots of, people will do, what do they do? They do white light or, ways of, of protecting. and so it's protecting themselves and. I think that would align closely to the idea of also purifying the self and making the self ready for doing a treatment. Yeah. Yeah. So what is going on with your head before you do this treatment? So what does it mean then if you were to purify yourself in the Japanese, system of reiki? We do kujo. Yeah. So we do the dry bathing, and if you think of bathing, it's a, a, a clearing. and you might see it as a purification ritual, and that would be totally aligned with the Japanese philosophy. But what do they mean by purification? So what they're saying is it's helping us to focus, it's bringing our focus in. And if we look at the practice of Josh in, we've spoken about this before, one translation of Josh in is purifying the mind. And we do that by bringing the mind down into the hara. And, we then allow that to expand out into the world. And it's this, inter penetration of the body, the mind, and the breath. These three things coming together, which is the whole us and the whole US is a replica of the whole world. Yeah. So, the heavens, the earth and the life spark in between. So we are just a mirror of that and we are a part of that. when we are practicing Jewish in coho, it's we are breathing in and out with the universe, and we are not separate to that. We are just a part of that, and it's allowing us the focus by doing this purification beforehand. These rituals beforehand allows us to focus on what we are doing. It doesn't mean that we are taking away bad bits of ourselves or anything that. It's just us actually being able to be more open because we can really put all of ourselves into what we are doing rather than just a part of ourselves. So, it's why when we do the practice, it's, it's a meditation practice. When we do a, a reiki treatment, I see it as the same thing. And in fact, that's how I describe it to clients. We want our client to be feeling calm and relaxed and open. So we need to allay any fears as well of the fact maybe they've read somewhere. Oh yeah. You take on people's stuff or whatever, in a treatment. So we don't want, we want them to understand what's happening. And the way that I would describe it is that I go into a meditative space and we share that space together. So the. It's me sort of doing the heavy lifting a little bit, right? Because I'm, I'm the one going into that space and doing the rituals that are aligned with that and the practice, and they're, they're lying there, but then they know that meditation, okay, meditation isn't something that's going to, a attack them or hurt them, or it's something that they do themselves. So what we're doing is we're supporting them in allowing them to move into this practice that they're actually going to be doing something meditation, that is, that we are gonna help them move into that space. And in that space then they're going to be open to allow whatever needs to come into balance, to come into balance, to the best that it can in that moment.

Speaker 4 15:37

Yeah.

Speaker 3 15:37

So there's no fears in this. There's no protection in this. There's just us all bringing our, our body, our mind, and our breath focusing it in, coming into that and being in that space. it's not you giving your energy, but of course you give our energy to, everything that we do. I'm giving my energy to this right now. Yeah. But I'm not harming this Well, what I mean? I'm just putting my focus to this and, it's a beautiful thing to be able to focus deeply on something and, and bring yourself into that, fully, wholly with, with, every, ounce of your energy for sure. And, by doing that, you're allowing whatever the ritual is, therefore to really fully take place.

Speaker 2 16:34

I love that you focused on, Purification and the different ways in which that aspect can be understood. I hadn't made that connection to this question, so I I love that. And yeah, it really, if, if we wanna understand a system of practice, we need to be in relationship as well as we can with the origins of that practice. Where, where did it come from? Why are these elements there? Why is the element of dry bathing there? And as you say, yes, purification, cleaning, bathing is very, very, very central to Shinto practice in particular and infused into all of Japanese practice. But as you say, what is it that's being cleansed? What is it that's being purified? Right. We seem to be, Interpreting that as we're cleansing ourselves of other people's energy or we're cleansing ourselves of entities, or we're cleansing ourselves of, of, bad energy that might be stuck to us, that we might be, infecting the space with. But more so in the, from the perspective of this practice, we're cleansing ourselves of distraction. We're cleansing ourselves of fear. We're cleansing ourselves of, of attachments. We're cleansing ourselves of lack of compassion so that when we come to our practice, we are as clean as we can be from the inside out. And that practice, even, pr of cleansing with water as is customary before going into ATO Shrine, the practice of dry bathing, which is a way of cleansing our energy when we don't have water. all of that is not about getting something off of us, or I guess more accurately the, the cleansing of dust or dirt from our body. I, I love that you said that we are. A, I can't remember the word that you used specifically. Right. But we are, ourself is a mirror of the world. And so making our own vessel physically as clean as possible, translates to being mentally as clean as possible, emotionally as clean as possible, energetically as clean as possible. And again, what are we cleaning ourselves of? Well, this practice is a self practice. It's about the mindset and the, the clarity of our focus and intention, that we bring to our practice. So therefore, we're cleansing ourselves of the things that would be in the way of that, the things that would be in the way of us being fully present, embodied, compassionate, focused and feeling in alignment with the world, with the earth. We're not cleansing ourselves necessarily of, bad things that have stuck to us. and. We can lie that alongside the fact that, as you say, what do we mean by personal energy? Right. Of course, my body, I can, I have body heat, I have energy radiating off of myself all of the time. I have, emotions that people pick up with their empathy and with their mirror neurons. Right. our, our brains make thought waves that can, can influence other people. Our hearts have an electromagnetic field that influence other hearts so that our heartbeats synchronized with each other. When we're, when we're in a relaxed state and we're together, we do influence every room that we walk into, because we are connected. Right. But if we're feeling negatively impacted by that proximity to another person, it's not that we, or they have not. Cleansed our energy or put up enough boundaries, right? We may need to come into greater focus on what our intention is for that space. It might be that emotionally or energetically, we're not a good match for the other person that's there, right? 'cause we are influencing each other. If I'm, if I'm bringing a sense of anxiety to my client, right? I need to look inside of myself and say, am I anxious? Do I need to bring myself to a place of calm? Do I need to kind of dial down my own mental energy that is present in this space? And then, of course, the system of reiki gives us practices to do that. The, the, the fix to that is not creating energetic boundaries by imagining white light, but it might be imagining the white light that's inside of my own self and allowing that to be a soothing presence for me. So that might. Anxiety dials down a little bit. there's a personal responsibility in that that is, is important. And I think it's, it's, it almost feels paradoxical. But of course we we're, we're dealing with a lot of paradoxes when we're working with these practices that, on the one hand we're saying Reiki is all energy. It's universal energy. It's, it's you and me all the time. It's, it's benign. It's among us at all times. We don't have to, specifically channel it to each other. And at the same time, there are things about. Our bodies and our minds and our hearts that entrain with each other that do impact each other how we think and how we feel. and, and that's okay. Right? And it's okay to not feel we have a good vibe with another person, right. That, I, I know people that when we're together, I don't always the way I feel emotionally. And so that's not a good person for me to spend time with. and if we wanted to change that dynamic, that would be something we'd have to really look at interpersonally. but it's not a question of purifying our reiki, just differentiating it from our personal energy to make sure that it's only the reiki that's going to that other person so that we're not making them anxious. I don't know if I, I don't know if any of that last part made sense. It felt it went a little bit rambly, but I think that there, but I think the ramblely nature of that, Points to the fact that there are these kind of complicated elements to it. when we really drill into what do these things mean,

Speaker 3 22:14

Hmm. When you were talking there, it brought me to a different subject, which was, should you do a treatment on someone if you don't feel if you don't want to, right? Mm-hmm. And, my answer to that, well, it could be a number of different answers to that, but you need to have a think about why, and, I don't think we should put ourselves in situations where we are not comfortable for one, right? So why aren't we comfortable? it could be some very obvious reasons for that. it could be something sexually related or something, what I mean? it could be something there where you feel uncomfortable in that sense. Definitely don't do it. It's so important for people to think about that we don't have to do treatments on people either, right? If you feel uncomfortable, don't do it. But if it's something, you were saying, Michaela, maybe you are feeling a bit unbalanced. if you are feeling unbalanced before a treatment, well, good reason to do self practice, right? Put that into place. Maybe do some meditation beforehand. and in reality that would be a great thing to do always before you do a treatment because don't you wanna be in the most purified space? So the most focused space, and why do we meditate to focus, right? So we, we wanna be in that space before we actually, move into doing a treatment. And that will act, if you are in a focused space when you move into a treatment, it's so different to being in a scattered space. And I know that 'cause I've done both, right? that is the way, the truth of it all. And, so of course we're gonna try to do the best that we can for our client, and that means doing the best that we can for ourselves. So yeah, that's really important. However, let's say that. You can't, and you are gonna go into a treatment scattered, maybe it's better to counsel, maybe it is better to do it another time don't think that you have to do it because you've got this title or something, and don't think, and I think that could be an issue maybe in this subject as well, this idea of channeling. I, I would never use that word because if I'm channeling something, it's I'm grabbing something and I'm doing something with it, and then I'm spitting it out, right? So that doesn't seem to me anyway, to be the experience of this. As I explained before, it's not how I would see it. What could happen is if you do see it that way, then maybe you're really disassociating from what's going on as well. And there could be problems associated with that. Right? So maybe you think that you are, above the situation.

Speaker 24:56

Hmm.

Speaker 3 24:57

and in reality, we are, we are the situation and we wanna make the situation the most, the, the best experience possible. And so we need to be in the best space possible. you were talking about cleaning and I think a good way to actually see the results of that is not to see ourselves as clean. but it's to bring us into balance. I think that's a good word for it because it's something that, takes us away from this concept of removing things and instead about allowing our body, the space to find balance. Yeah.

Speaker 2 25:40

Hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. And I, what's coming up for me is something that often comes up when we get into these kind of paradoxical conversations, which is the way that the fourth precept really helps to contextualize a lot of this, right? Which says that just for today, I am true to my way and my being. And it makes this distinction between being true to my way. Being true to my being. Okay, well what do those two things mean? being true to our being means acknowledging this greater reality that we are interconnected. That all energy is one, that reiki is universal in the sense that it is everywhere and we are connected and animated through this web of life. And being true to that, involves having a mindset that leans towards interconnection and compassion. And, really sees the connectedness of all things at an energetic level. Being true to our way is looking at our daily life. It's looking at the pathway of my life and this body for the time that this body exists on this earth. the choices that I make, the experiences I have, the perspectives I have, the beliefs, the fears, all the things that are particular to the lifespan that we call McKayla, Daystar, and. Those two considerations being true to my way and my being can look different, right? And so being true to my way involves the reality that we have a nervous system that can get dysregulated, that can dysregulate each other. That when we have a client who's going through something really, really intense and they come in in a really upset state, or really depressed state, that that can influence us because we have a nervous system. And those nervous systems are impacted by each other. And, some of the ways that we just discussed, and that, being true to that involves some of the questions that you mentioned, right? Is this a good time for me to be doing a reiki session? Am I in a good enough space to hold space for someone who's upset or who's dysregulated themselves? When I get to the end of that session, if I'm feeling a little bit outta sorts because of that interaction, because of that, empathy that I'm having with that person, how can I then tend to my nervous system before I go throughout my, the rest of my day so that the rest of my day isn't, pulled in another direction from that? And similarly, can I show up to that session in a way that minimizes that kind of impact on someone else? And if not, then not a good day for me to be doing a session. And of course, all of that is true for just our casual interactions as well, not, not withstanding reiki sessions. And so, being true to our way, will include having good emotional and energetic hygiene for ourselves. it might mean that sometimes we feel outta sorts after we are around another person. but none of that means that the, that we've. Somehow accidentally shared personal energy instead of sharing Reiki energy that we've somehow done reiki wrong because we, we slipped and, and had an energetic exchange with that person that is personal energy versus Reiki energy. It's just two different states of being together, right? And, and we are together in Reiki all the time. We don't have to really do anything for that to be true. But in a session, we're really focusing on that connection and we're focusing on creating that space, holding back those distractions so that we can feel the truth of that, and each of us can be more fully what we are in that space and in that moment, and. All of the things that are happening with our body as we go throughout our way on a given day are gonna be present. And the system of reiki gives us practices to help manage that to be in good energetic hygiene, good emotional hygiene to help keep present emotionally and mentally, to help us address some of these common, points of imbalance, as you said, that are just completely common. As we go through a different, yeah, we go through life as we go through all the things that just balance us, right? but the idea that those two things can't be simultaneously true is, is I think a, a, a challenge that we're running into. And, if we get to the other side of a reiki session and we feel outta sorts, if the impulse is to blame the reiki or to say, we didn't do it right, or you didn't, you didn't close off your connection properly, so you're still siphoning energy to that person, or you didn't protect yourself from their energy properly. Well, what does that mean, protecting myself from your energy? for me it's am I. Truly grounded. Now, that is a piece of really good advice that I often see people sharing around these questions. Were you grounded? Did you get yourself grounded? I think that I can completely agree with that advice, and in fact, so many of the practices inside of the system of Reiki to help with these things do involve first and foremost feeling our feet on the ground, failing ourselves to be stable and secure and safe and and steady on the ground. So I, I completely agree with that as a opening point to all of the rest. But yeah, I do think that the fourth precept gives us some guidance on how to hold this paradox and to be in more flexibility around it and less blame, less looking for something wrong rather than looking for something that, could use some balancing.

Speaker 3 31:06

Hmm. Yeah, I agree. Well, obviously the precepts, all of them. there's only five, so it's not it's a, we are looking at a state of mind here, and I think that's what you're talking about when you're saying the way that in, in a more Western style how you have to disconnect yourself at the end of a treatment and all this sort of stuff, which we don't do in the Japanese style. If you think about it, it's all state of mind. It's all, what's going on here? Oh, I need to do this, I have to do that. I must do this. otherwise it isn't gonna work. Or, I've done the wrong thing or this sort of stuff it's all up here. It's all in the head. If we understand that we have some control over this and we know that the point of the system of reiki is to be the reiki precepts. If we are the reiki precepts, then we know that we are not gonna worry. Yeah. And we know that we're, we are not gonna be scared. We are not gonna be mad at ourselves or the client or the dog barking or the whatever, might have happened in a treatment. we know that, we are gonna really feel that lovely openness because we are feeling grateful. Right. And, and compassionate for ourselves, for others. And you mentioned the fourth precept. if we take it literally, it says be diligent in your work and, we can put that. Flat onto a reiki treatment. And what does it mean to be diligent? It means to be there, as you said, be present, to be focused to bring everything to that. Yeah. Not to hold back, not to let some sort of state of mind get in the way. So really allowing the reiki precepts to, to shine through and to be there for the client and for yourself.

Speaker 2 33:13

Yeah. Well said. Well, I think we've solved it. Bronwen. I think we've, I think we've gotten to the bottom of this question, of are we giving over our personal energy when we're doing reiki? And what in the world do we need to do about that? If so, and if not, what in the world is actually happening? these are. Mysterious questions, but they're also questions that do align with our direct experience and. for folks who hold a different view than us, I, I don't want to ever come across as saying you are wrong fundamentally about what is happening. What I am saying is that the system of reiki in its original form answers these questions in specific ways, and they answer them in specific ways that are aligned with traditions that go back thousands of years. A lot of, experimentation, a lot of. Curiosity, questioning and seeking answers. A lot of, being in the question of, of what is this phenomenon that we're experiencing? And so there's a trustworthiness to that that I appreciate and there's different traditions that answer these questions differently, and there's trustworthiness there as well. So we all do get to answer these questions in our own way. We just always wanna encourage people to have a relationship with the traditions that, we work with, so that we can answer them in a way that is authentic and rooted in something, in some sort of rigor, that people have gone through. I I'll have one more last word, which is that, we are still in our fundraising period. Yes, we have been, raising money to help support our expansion of this podcast, particularly in the vicinity of getting additional help in producing it. there's a lot of work that goes into it and we have a great team of folks that are helping us and we are looking to our community to help support that production, at least in the meantime. And, so we are running a fundraiser right now through GoFundMe. We'll put that link down below and we are open to sponsorships as well. we'd love to share what some of you all amazing people are up to, on the podcast and to, have that be a reciprocal experience. So check it out. Those links are down below and we will be with you again next week. Hopefully Carrie will be back with us and we'll continue the conversation.

Speaker 3 35:32

Bye for now.