RWP Episode 198: Reiki, Sacred Rage & The Epstein Files

In this episode of the Reiki Women Podcast, the hosts explore the emotional impact of the Epstein files and the complex feelings they evoke, anger, grief, helplessness, and the desire for accountability.

Through the lens of the system of Reiki, they discuss how anger can be understood not as something to suppress, but as “sacred rage” or “wrathful compassion.” When grounded in steadiness and compassion, anger can become a catalyst for truth-telling, boundaries, and meaningful action rather than harm.

The conversation also explores how the first Reiki precept (“Just for today, do not anger”) is often misunderstood in Western interpretations as a call to suppress anger entirely. This misunderstanding can lead to shame particularly for women while larger systems of power and harm remain unchallenged.

Using examples such as Virginia Giuffre, a witness to alleged abuse, and a real-world hospice insurance denial, the hosts reflect on the ethical role of anger, systemic abuse of power, and the importance of emotional intelligence and community accountability.

This episode invites listeners to consider how Reiki philosophy can support courage, compassion, and conscious action in difficult times.

✨ Topics explored in this episode:
• Sacred rage and wrathful compassion
• Misinterpretations of the Reiki precepts
• Women, anger, and societal conditioning
• Abuse of power and accountability
• Transforming anger into ethical action
• Emotional intelligence and healing

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The Reiki Women Podcast is hosted by experienced Reiki practitioners dedicated to thoughtful dialogue around the system of Reiki, Reiki ethics, Reiki education, and contemporary issues affecting the Reiki community.

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00:00 Sacred Rage Framing
03:47 Podcast Intro: Epstein Files
05:23 Wrathful Compassion and Anger
08:46 Abuse of Power Through a Reiki Lens
11:44 Misreading the First Reiki Precept
14:26 From Helplessness to Action
16:35 Sacred Rage and Collective Grief
21:05 Shaming Women for Anger
27:04 Accountability vs. Money and Power
30:18 Systems, Shame, and Dualism
36:51 Healing, Boundaries, and Victims
38:54 Choosing Conscious Change
40:58 Closing: Channeling the Rage

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About the Podcast
Reiki Women Podcast shares the voices of women-identified Reiki practitioners from around the world. Through stories of healing, lineage, and spiritual practice, we explore the culture and community of Reiki practice.

Join hosts Bronwen Logan, Carrie Varela, and Michaela Daystar as they reflect on the system of Reiki and the women who shape its path.

Meet the Hosts
🌿 Bronwen Logan — ‪@reikithbronwen
🌿 Carrie Varela — ‪@reikihealingsociety‬ 
🌿 Michaela Daystar — ‪@heartscapesreiki1496‬ 

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Transcript

0:00

I think this is where the subtlety and the fine tuning of how we think about anger and how we think about powerful emotions, because of course we do not want to use anger. Just let it explode on somebody innocent, right? Anger causes a lot of harm when it is not filtered through compassion and through steadiness. But when it is filtered through compassion and steadiness, it becomes an incredibly important source of focus and energy to right wrongs that are being carried out against us, and we are seeing that. We saw that with Virginia Giuffre, who came out and was angry and said, this happened to me and started this whole snowball effect. And she lost her life as a result of these things that happened to her, but not before she had let that sacred rage open these files. And so I think we need to really be careful as Reiki people. About using the first precept to shame people for their anger and really sit with what that means for us. Women's lives were being degraded, people were being imprisoned, children were being raped. It was wrong. And I will be willing to step forward and take accountability and ownership for being wrong. And that is to me, the cure. When we get into places where somebody has done some sort of wrongdoing and in, in traditional cultures, the whole village would surround the person who harmed the wrong, and they would give them love and tell them and remind them of all the good things that they've done, but also hold them accountable. It's all about the money. What about the women? We say we care. The gap between what we say and what we do. Yeah. For the people who are involved. but as much as for us, we should all be standing up in some way. We should be, making change. Women are not respected and we are not as important as money in this society. Welcome to Reiki Women Podcast. We are back and we thought we'd. Talk about something that is, in all of our lives at the moment. And even though I live in Australia, it's also in my life and Carrie and Michaela must also be quite affected by this. Wherever we go on the internet, there's stuff about the Epstein files. And this has been going on for years, but obviously it seems to have. It's like, a little pebble going down a hill and collecting a lot of other crap as it goes down and getting bigger and bigger and bigger. So we thought we'd have a look at that and what's come out of that we are not journalists or political. analysts. Analysts, thank you. So, how does it affect us in our daily lives and how we feel about our world that we live in, from a Reiki perspective. So. There's a lot I could say. we're gonna bring our own rawful compassion to this discussion. That means bringing our energy of all the. the feelings that we have about this and channeling them in a way that hopefully we'll be able to talk about it in a, positive and constructive way that is supportive of us and our listeners and our world carrier. I'm throwing it to you. Okay. I am catching the ball and running with it. well, I think people often in the world of Reiki, we, we might struggle with sitting with things that are inevitably there and make us angry, right? Yeah. I'm furious about the Epstein files. I'm furious about ways women are dehumanized, raped, victims of just the most incredible, masochistic, sadistic insanity that is so prevalent and the masculine world in pornography in just inherently all these, ways in which we get imprinted, in our youth and in, in our journey through life about what a healthy sexual relationship is or isn't. So, we have an episode on the Reiki Women Podcast called Rascal Compassion. And, and that's a really good, starting place for this conversation. And I think our hypothesis in that episode was, well, we transform the anger into full compassion, or it's like a don't fuck with me anger. It's, an anger or a sacred rage that invites. Transformation. It invites accountability, it invites boundaries. It invites taking people out of our lives that are toxic to us, ending toxic relationships and so forth. So I think, I just wanna say I have a lot of compassion for all of the victims of the Epstein files, all of the people who were involved in that. I wanna say that all of that is wrong, and it just shows to me that, we know this, there's, people who have power, money, authority, they have an unhealthy relationship with power, money, and authority, and they think they can buy or, subjugate people because they have wealth, they have power, whatever they have, social standing. And, and, and it really kind of does boil down to like this kind of sexual ownership over women and women's bodies. And it's wrong. It's just so wrong. And I think the new rage is, is a healthy sexuality with two consenting adults. Anyone else agree with me? That's the new sexy in my mind too. Consenting adults who have a mutual passion and desire for intimacy with each other, like that's the new sexy, that's the new ideal. We could, market and put out there, and entertainment and social media, because healthy sexuality and real love is nothing that you can buy. And it's nothing that comes from power over somebody else. It comes from like power within somebody else and, and choosing to love somebody, in an intimate way. It like, it needs trust and accountability and relationships that aren't built on, that aren't built on a healthy relationship. So, I just, that's where I'm gonna pass it over to Michaela. Thank you. yeah, this is, this is a conversation we've been having, behind the scenes for, for quite some time since, since this really was in the news quite a lot and it stirs up so much, obviously. And, it, for us personally as humans, as women, as mothers, as, people with compassion in the world, and then of course as Reiki teachers and, and people who, hold some level of influence within that community. And, one of the, the things that's really at the center of this, for me and for many people is, is the abuse of power and the abuse of influence and the way in which. any level of power over other people, but in this case, we're talking about extreme levels of power over people. become this place where abuse is is so close at hand, right? It becomes so incumbent upon the person's alignment with. A steady value system to not take that step into abusive situations. We obviously see that in the extreme in this case, people with extreme amounts of power who have done extreme amounts of abuse. I love that you brought us and kind of grounded us into this topic of both wrathful compassion and sacred rage. And, one of the places that I've been reflecting quite a lot is the way that the extreme kind of big, intense example of the, sex trafficking operation that Jeffrey Epstein operated for decades. that that really shines this intense light on, and, and that feels very far away from most of our lives. Right. And as you said, like the deepest compassion for people who. It's actually very close to their life. But for, for many people that feels very far away and very like sensational. But all of us have experienced some form of abuse of power, whether we have been subjugated by somebody else who has power over us, or in instances when we, ourselves, were the one who had more power and had to feel into that, that sense of, alignment with values. and so I, I've been really thinking about the way that this. Glaring example of power leading to abuse when it's unchecked, can help shine a light on the places in our lives where these things exist. And of course, coming back to the system of Reiki as that place, where we can find that bedrock of, of morality, and. Self-responsibility and alignment with values. the, the principles, the practices within Reiki are designed to give us a sense of grounding into the earth and compassion for ourselves and others and those two things alone. Go a long way to keep us steady when we are either in a position of holding power or being subjugated by power. And of course, the topic of wrathful compassion and sacred rage brings us to the first precept. Just for today. I anger not, and I think this is one of the, one of several things about. About the system of Reiki from its Japanese origins, that is dramatically misunderstood within a Western context because we're seeing it through a Western lens and we're translating the words into English and imperfectly, and it's one of those places that we always have so much discussion. With my students and we in this podcast have had so much discussion because the interpretation is often don't be angry, and it often puts anger in the position of being bad that this is a negative emotion and it is good. To not be angry. So if we have anger, we need to suppress that anger and, or work it through in other ways. But the, the overarching theme is that anger is bad and we sh and it, it, and the way to be in good practice is to purge it from us. There are of course, incredibly important. Reasons to be angry. Anger serves an incredibly important function. It is not bad, it is not a negative motion. I believe very strongly. There are no negative emotions. They all serve a function. They can be profoundly out of balance in our body and our mind and our behavior. that's a question of, of balancing which the system of Reiki brings us into. So that first precept really gives us a way to look at anger as something that. Moves through us, but then doesn't stick. become who we are. But it does have a function and the, the terminology of sacred rage is so valuable, I think. And wrathful compassion, which of course is associated with Fudo Myoo. And that episode that you're talking about, was looking at that beautiful article, Bronwen, that you wrote about Fudo and wrathful compassion. and that gives us such a beautiful framework to think about anger as a. As a resource and an ally for doing incredibly difficult things, focusing our attention on what matters, bringing energy, adrenaline to the body so that we can take action on things that are incredibly difficult. And we see so many examples of that within the situation of the unfurling of the Epstein files. And we can see examples of that in our personal life. And there's two. Of those that are really kind of in my heart and mind that I've been sitting with as we've been having this conversation. One is a situation that one of you just brought up when we were talking about this earlier. a, a driver of, a certain president who shall not be named, who is absolutely implicated in the Epstein files. Talking about abuses that he had committed while this driver of the vehicle was there. Present this person with incredible power who felt no shame and no problem at all. Speaking of illegal acts of violence against a woman in the presence of somebody that he perceived as being powerless in, in his presence. And this person spoke about the anger that, that brought up, the rage that that brought up, and also the feelings of helplessness. And the tension of do I take action? what can I do when I am so powerless? and I have great empathy for. People who have been in that situation, right? Like it's an incredibly terrible choice to have to make. Do I act on this anger, this righteous anger, this sacred rage that is beaming my attention on something that is absolutely unacceptable? Do I take action and risk myself, my own safety, my own livelihood, maybe even my own, physical safety depending on the situation? or do I stay silent and it, and I don't cast judgment. On the decisions people make in those situations. Those are the kinds of situations we can't know how we're gonna respond unless we're in them. but it's, it's a, it's a powerful thing to think about. And when we know that any of us could be in a situation like that where we witness or subject to something horrible, that everything in our body is screaming, do something about this. Are we prepared to take that action that our values and our soul are saying to take? Or are we in a space of fear? And being in regular practice with the system of Reiki has been one of the most powerful ways in which I have built my capacity and my confidence that I could take action, that I could act on that sacred rage. I got an example of that in my life the other day. I volunteer with a, with the Center for Loss and Hope here in my town. They do grief work and I, sometimes substitute leading, various grief circles that are weekly, and one of them is anticipatory loss. And this is one of the most powerful and difficult groups to be inside of, emotionally and to facilitate because these are folks who are not on the other side of a loss, but who are caretaking their loved ones, who are going through end of life experiences. And, and, and that's an, that's, it's an immeasurably difficult, painful, taxing role to be taking where you have the anticipatory grief of losing the person, but you're also in the day-to-day. Horror of taking care of somebody whose body is deteriorating. And one of the people, and this is a place where they just get to say all the things, right? They get to like unburden their hearts about how difficult this time is because they're with people who understand. And one person talked about, fighting with their insurance company who would cut his wife off from a medication when she went into hospice because in their words, she doesn't need this anymore because she's dying and this is a medication that that helped her system regulate and did give her relief, even though it was no longer gonna cure her illness. And he talked about the fury inside at this decision of somebody in an office, in an insurance agency somewhere deciding that his wife didn't need this medication anymore because she was dying, and how helpless he felt and one of the other participants. Got visibly enraged and he said, he said the man by name and he said, you need to get on the phone and you need to scream at them. You need to bring every bit of your anger to bear on these people because they are being unethical. They're, they are harming you and your wife, and it's not okay. And he just like let himself rant about it because he had experienced the same thing and two other people on that call had experienced the same thing. After they shared about that, they asked, if I wanted to share anything. And I just, I spoke about sacred rage and I said, one of my dear friends and colleagues, Carrie recently spoke to me about the power and the importance of sacred rage and the reason that I said that was that this man, after he, he was. Ranting about this in a way that was absolutely spot on, that everybody was like, yep, yep, yep. Uhhuh like totally in agreement with him. He apologized for it. He said, I'm so sorry that I got that angry. I am, I, I shouldn't be that angry. And, and I have to confess that sometimes I let myself yell at those insurance people because it feels good in my body, and he was ashamed of that and he was ashamed of using the energy of anger to, to write an injustice that he was experiencing in his life. And I think this is where the subtlety and the fine tuning of how we think about anger and how we think about powerful emotions, because of course we do not want to use anger. Just let it explode on somebody. Innocent, right? Anger causes a lot of harm when it is not filtered through compassion and through steadiness. But when it is filtered through compassion and steadiness, it becomes an incredibly important source of focus and energy to right wrongs that are being carried out against us, and we are seeing that. We saw that with Virginia Giuffre, who came out and was angry and said, this happened to me and started this whole snowball effect. And she lost her life as a result of these things that happened to her, but not before she had let that sacred rage open these files. And so I think we need to really be careful as Reiki people. About using the first precept to shame people for their anger and really sit with what that means for us. Go ahead, Bronwen. Yeah, it sort of brought me to something which was amusing a minute ago, and then you brought it back to Epstein, which isn't amusing. So anyway, I was thinking about, this idea that they call older women. Karens, so women who speak their mind in situations get called Karen. Yeah. And I guess I'm considered an older woman gonna be 60 this year, so it's like, I guess that would be me. And, it is interesting that if we speak our mind that someone's going to shame us for that and that we are, labeled as something. And, I, I've often wondered where that all came from. And I think it does relate to this in so many ways because it is. A rage inside of women who have been told to smile, to obey, these are things that are normalized in our society and I guess they still do that, that thing of getting married that the women had to obey but the men didn't. In our marriage vows, I mean, that's. Insane. Right? And yet it's normalized and, that we should be nice, that we should smile, that we are, we are objectified and we can see that through all this stuff that has come out, how it is so true in our society today still. And you know, I so hope that we'd move through that. But anyway, the frustration of living that type of life. I think is what does come out through women, uh, as they get older because they possibly have, um, well, they don't have the children necessarily at home with them anymore. There's not that responsibility. Their responsibility is to themselves, and if we think about the Reiki precepts, that they are there for ourselves to help us live healthy, happy lives leading toward. Enlightenment and we can't have that experience if we are held back by these norms that are trying to make us be something that fits inside a world that is restrictive and doesn't allow us to be true to who we actually are. And I can see that, that, the, the frustration and, and it can turn, I think Michaela were just talking about that, there's this double-sided thing. It can turn the, that that anger can go in a wrong direction, but that anger can also be used in a way that's just really, helpful and useful. And, and I know that when I've had people on the phone. And, something is going wrong or, and I've said on the phone something along the terms of, yeah, well I'm sorry, but that just doesn't work for me in a very clear plain, There was a man, this, I actually had this experience. There was a man listening to this, and he said to me afterwards, he said, that would've terrified me if you'd have said that to me. And I was on the other side. I'm like, what would've been terrifying about that? I was just saying that the situation didn't work for me. I wasn't yelling, screaming, carrying on, I mean that we actually speak our mind clearly what we are feeling. And to be like a Carrie for that, I have this slight fear that people are gonna call me a Carrie if I actually, speak my mind about something. And then not to be horrible to anybody, but just to say what I think about something and, that I should feel fear about that. I don't like that. This is not exactly Epstein files, but it's coming out of that. Well, I think there's some context, I think where the conscious care and thing, can come from is. A white woman playing a specific role and not realizing that her, the way she's talking and being is degrading to somebody else around her, whether it be somebody in their life or an African American person or whatever. And, and then, but like kind of shying or hiding behind, either like. New age, spiritual norms like Reiki or something like that, or, religious ideology and stuff like that too. So what are you saying, Carrie? So you're saying that there's a thing called a conscious Carrie. What was that? The contest? Carrie is like somebody who's like, oh, I'm so, elevated and enlightened. And then yet like screams and yells at a like, okay, the barista who's been a person of color or, something like that where they're clearly acting in a really hypocritical way, but then in their mind they're just like on this elevated state of being. So I don't think that that's who we are, but but I think there's always. an opportunity for accountability. I recently taught a decolonized Reiki workshop and somebody reached out to me and said, was, was kind of offended that as a white person I was teaching this workshop and I felt that that was fair and I, instead of just bristling and being like, well, mommy, no, all of the things I was like. Hey, I recognize that what you really wanna understand is that I have, I'm trying to do the right thing for my community and for Reiki, and so I'm willing to sit with you until we find that we can find that common ground. and not just go right into like, well, this da that, like when we do have conflict, how hard it is to actually. Sit down and be of two rational minds and work through it until you get to the place where of common understanding. And back to the Epstein files, not really that I really wanna talk about them that much, but I mean, I do. There's a big part of me that just wants to be like, oh my God, that's so disgusting and it's nothing that I want in my life or to, to really have. But I, I recognize that in and of itself as a privilege because I. I am not a victim of, Jeffrey Epstein or any of his, association and, and I can't imagine how all consuming this might be for somebody who is a victim, but what I'm really upset about is there's nobody on the list who've been identified thus far who's come out and just. Yeah, that was me. I was a part of that organization and it was wrong. Yeah. What was happening was wrong. Women's lives were being degraded, people were being imprisoned, children were being raped. It was fucking wrong. Sorry. If you need to edit that out, it was wrong. And I will be willing to step forward and take accountability and ownership for being wrong. And that is to me, the cure. When we get into places where somebody has done some sort of wrongdoing and in, in traditional cultures, like they would, the whole village would surround the person who harmed the wrong, and they would give them love and tell them and remind them of all the good things that they've done, but also hold them accountable. And through whatever ritual they would maybe potentially bring them back into the community or, exclude them from a community. Can I just say, but yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. that the wrongdoing that is going to get, picked up on here, that is getting picked up on here, ends up being about money. Right, right. You, well, you were, you talked about Prince Andrew earlier and he was arrested, but he was arrested for financial crimes, not for abusive underaged girls. This is my frustration. I mean, if I look back at the whole Epstein thing, they had, wasn't it 80, young girls who were being trafficked by Epstein in Florida, the FBI had had taken all their statements They ended up with just two, two women that, that they got him on but there were 80 women. 80 women at that point, way back in 2000 and, what was it? Eight or, yeah. And that's just the tip of the iceberg here. And it's like everyone's sort of pretending that didn't happen and he's gonna get in trouble for, oh, he, he, he took someone's money and did something wrong with the money. it's all about the money. What about the women? No one really cares. It's, oh, we say we care. And this is what you were talking about, Carrie, too. The gap between what we say and what we do. Yeah. For the people who are involved. but as much as for us, we should all be standing up in some way. We should be, making change. Women are not respected and we are not as important as money in this society. Yeah. I think one of the things that really gets in the way of accountability, which is that was so that was some sacred rage, right? There is all, I gotta say. I absolutely, and, and sacred rage rooted in the lack of accountability and the lack of integrity and the, and then the actions that, that causes over and over, not just individually, but systemically. 'cause we're talking about systemic. Issues. Right? Not individual bad actors, not bad apples, not, isolated people who made bad choices. We're talking about systems of oppression. Okay? Yeah. We're talking about deeply entrenched systems that allow these things to happen and, and have structural points of protection around these people. Right? And Andrew is such a perfect example because again, it took, I mean, everybody knew. The kinds of stuff he got up to for years and years and years and years. And it wasn't until this happened that he had consequences to that. And ultimately the consequences, again, were about his financial crimes, not about his sexual indiscretion and crimes. and one of the things that, especially on the, the, the more. Like normal, average people's level, right? Because there's like these exceptionally wealthy people who have a whole different psychology. But in our day-to-day lives, taking accountability for wrong that we have done is, I think it would take a very special kind of. Narcissists to argue that people should not take accountability for wrong that they have done right. I think this is generally agreed that if we have committed wrong, that the thing to do is to take accountability for it. But it is so difficult and so infrequently done. And one of the things that is in the way of that is the dualistic nature of our thinking and of our society that says that you. Are either only a good person or you're only a bad person. There's, there's so little, especially for, the more high profile a person is, the more influence, the more visibility they have, the more this is true that. They are either only a good person to be admired and to be emulated, and to be lifted up on a pedestal and celebrated and rewarded. Or they are a bad person who should be shunned and stripped of all of their, rights and responsibilities and their, their roles and their money and all of the things. If there are crimes that have been committed, then yes, there should be. Severe accountability, but if we're talking about again, more the like day-to-day wrongs that are so common, we have to be able to create space for a person to be complex and to be, to have goodness and badness in how we are. I know that's how I am. I know that I am a, a person with who's generally. Does good in the world and, and operates from a place of compassion and a place of values. And I have absolutely caused harm and made bad choices and done things I'm not proud of. And if we are in a mindset that if we confess to that, if we, if we share what we have done and take accountability for it and do what you just described, Carrie, of like, Hey, I wanna sit down and have a conversation about this. I wanna do what needs to be done to kind of come back into a place of balance. If we're afraid that we're gonna be labeled as a bad person, that is only a bad person because we can, we admit to having done something harmful, then it be, it's it. The mountain might be too high to climb and then we're living with a private shame that can eat us up, that can, as a friend I was talking with just today who had taken accountability for a harm that she had done years ago and that was eating her up, she said I had to free myself. From the hell that I had put myself in by not just doing the thing, but by not speaking about it and holding it inside for so long. And if only that was, was the norm, right? If only this premise within the system of Reiki that we must have compassion for ourselves first and get, get rooted in that. Knowledge, willing to be with ourselves in all of our good and our bad manifestations, and then be willing to be with others in their good and bad manifestations so that we can encircle each other and, hold, uphold the good parts and, and name the bad parts and make, and make amends for them. our society would look very different and, again, the system of Reiki gives us a pathway to live our lives that way, and I'm very grateful for that. I think you need emotional intelligence on both sides to be able to achieve that. And the problem is that we don't teach that. And this is what's, this is what's gone wrong is that it. We have been feeding a society that seems to be in, in many ways heading into. A space that doesn't have that. And, I mean, if I see some of the things that are said and being politically accepted, that it's frightening. It's a frightening world to be in. And it's something that you couldn't actually discuss with a person about because that emotional intelligence isn't there. I'm guessing it's more a response to, pain and hurt and. And we can see that on so many levels. It can be personal. It can be cultural. Yeah. Where do we go with that? Yeah. And, and the thing about the shame and guilt, they don't really lead us into a space of openness and accountability. And that's the problem is part of it is the more we leverage shame and guilt like you did this and blah, blah, blah and help blah, blah, blah. And, Maybe not addressing hypocrisy either. that might be part of that. Then that just like, kind of buries the person underground, and I think these are some of the roots of narcissism too, is, is this terrible feeling about oneself. And so you do these grandiose things to like make yourself feel better or feel bigger than somebody else. So it's just, it's a complicated subject. But what I really feel like within the dualism or non-duality of Reiki is that for as much as somebody has been victimized, the perpetrator is also part of the problem, and as part of the healing circle, right? And I don't know what healing is necessary for those perpetrators to take accountability, to change, to be better people, to learn that they were wrong. but I hope that there's something out there that does hold that at space spiritually healing. But I, I have to actually recognize that I can't do that for them necessarily. And if somebody has continuously broken trust, broken boundaries has been unaccountable, hasn't been, good to me or to, and, other people in my life, I have to like that sacred rage is like, I am going to take you out of my life. You're not healthy. and that alienation too is, is important. I think. I mean, just to end it also on. Celebrating, the resilience of victims in this tragedy. And in any tragedy, if we come back to the first Reiki precept, do not anger, especially if you feel like you have, an issue in your life that has put you in a place of victim hood is, is somehow learning how to, the another way of translating that first Reiki preci is do not bear anger. Right, and if it's, if that anger a victim hood. Of what you've experienced feels like a weight on your back. I think that the system of Reiki helps us learn how to put that down and helps us how find and reclaim this part of ourself that isn't angry about life and circumstance, and that we can find our true self, who we are beyond what has happened to us in our life. And that is worth more than gold and that is not something anybody can buy. Yeah. We need to be able to, Hmm. imagine what the flip side of of anger might be for us and what would it take for us to get there, how we could get there. And I can see that we can work on ourselves individually. Yes. We are just talking about that. And somehow. In my life, there was a point, I guess that I, I chose consciously to learn the system of Reiki, right? Or whatever it is. It's gonna be different for everyone. But since we're talking to Reiki practitioners here, probably Reiki, but maybe there's some other things that you've done. I know you guys have both done different things as well in your life. So those moments, there's probably not just one moment, but those moments where. We choose to become more conscious of who we are and how we wanna live our lives. And so the system of Reiki, when we learn that, that it gives us these guidelines, the precepts, it's a conscious choice. And I think that looking at something like these Epstein files just brings up, it's like. When I started to learn the system of Reiki, I would've said I was probably going through a crisis of some sort and that I'm looking for something to help me. To give me some direction. And I think that we can see that as individuals, we can take that out into the world. We can see that culturally and I could say America, but it wasn't just America. It's much bigger than that. And so we need to look at our world I know we all make up that world, but our world needs to make a choice to consciously. Make a shift, make a change, and the only way that's gonna happen is actually through us, all of us, and through the truth tellers like what we're seeing. Yeah. Now. Yeah. So thank you for being with us here today. And, oh, that feel good? I got a little bit of that rage out. That's lovely. it was notable how close to the surface it was for all of us right there. We're laughing about it, but really we're just burning inside. Yes. And both. Yes. And. Yes. And, can get down from here. Mm-hmm. So, thanks for being with us here today. Take that rage, funnel it into ways to support our world, and, uh, each and every one of you makes a difference. I think that is the point. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Lots of love. Thank you.