Inquiry Oasis Season 3: Dr. Desiree Vega Part 1

Listen to part 1 of 2 in which Dr. Desiree Vega joins Dean Deil-Amen to explore the intersection of identity, advocacy, and purpose in the field of school psychology. Dr. Vega is a professor in the department of Disability and Psychoeducational Studies (DPS). Dr. Vega reflects on her journey as a first-generation college graduate, and how her family's educational experiences shaped her commitment to equity in schools. She shares how she discovered school psychology, after originally planning to major in accounting, and the transformative impact of mentors, and her experiences working in underserved communities.

Listeners will gain insight into the systemic challenges faced by minoritized students, the critical shortage of school psychologists—especially those of color and those that are bilingual—and the importance of advocacy in educational spaces. Dr. Vega also discusses her transition from practitioner to professor, emphasizing the need for curiosity, purpose-driven work, and advocacy.

Part 2 will release Wednesday, October 15th.

Transcript

Jeffrey Anthony:

Welcome to the Inquiry Oasis, the University of Arizona College of Education's podcast, here in the heart of the Sonoran Desert. We bring you conversations with our esteemed faculty members and staff whose research impacts lives from Southern Arizona to the far reaches of the globe. We explore the transformative power of education in this border town where diverse cultures and ideas converge, weaving a tapestry of innovation with compassion and a sense of wonder. So, join us as we journey through the sands of curiosity, unearthing insights that enrich and inspire. Sit back and relax. As we invite you to dive into the inquiry oasis.

Dean Deil-Amen:

We are here today with Dr. Desiree Vega, who is a licensed psychologist and a nationally certified school psychologist, and also a professor in our College of Education's disability and psychoeducational studies department.

She also happens to serve as the PhD program director and director of clinical training for our school psychology program. Desiree practiced for several years as a bilingual school psychologist, and she draws from that experience in her scholarship to shape our understandings of the very important role that school psychologists play in supporting the needs of students, especially racially, ethnically, culturally, and linguistically minoritized students.

She helps us understand how well our school psychology workforce is keeping pace with the increasing diverse demographics of our US public school students. Her work suggests that we need to expand school psychologists’ training opportunities in, for instance, culturally competent service delivery to enhance their capacity to effectively address the needs of students, especially emergent bilingual students.

For example, does the lack of diversity among school psychologists and in the profession's training standards leave them inadequately prepared to best support emergent bilingual students? Overall, Dr. Vega educates and certifies the Future school and community psychologists, and she follows a scholar practitioner training model.

Hello, Dr. Vega.

Dr. Desiree Vega:

Hello Dean. Interim Dean, Deil-Amen. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Good to have you here today. I'm going to start by asking you to share three words that represent why you are passionate about what you do. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

All right. Well, that feels like a big question, although it is only three words. I think some things that come to mind are like curiosity. Um, so, you know, as you mentioned, the work that I do, um, there's a lot of gaps in, in training for school psychologists, and so I'm curious about, you know, how do we close those gaps so that school psychologists are better prepared to serve underrepresented students? 

Also, like, purpose driven, you know, I can talk a little bit about this more as we go through. Um, but thinking about my own personal experiences with education, my family members challenges with education, um, and thinking about like the work that I do, the greater purpose is to help, you know, students from minoritized backgrounds have better educational experiences because they deserve to um, although, that might not be the sentiment among, you know, some folks in the political climate that we're currently, um, experiencing continues to show that that's not a value. Um, but for me, that's something that does give me purpose. Um, and also advocacy is another word that represents, you know, why I'm passionate about this work.

Um, I think we, you know, we need folks to advocate with and on behalf, you know, when people are not in the room, especially for students, again, from minoritized backgrounds, like how, you know, that school psychologists, something that we talk a lot about in our training. Like how do we promote the needs of students when you know you're in a situation, um, for example, working in a school and the student's needs are clearly not being met. Like you have to speak up and advocate for, um, their needs. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

All right. Well, it's interesting the way you really have the student-centered approach, and I'm interested to learn more about, you talked about your own family's experiences in schools. Can you talk about how that's relevant to your work, especially your decision to focus on school psychology in particular?

Dr. Desiree Vega:

Yeah, definitely. You know, I think for me personally, school was a safe place. You know, I kind of grew up in this, you know, very chaotic home environment, very dysfunctional. So, for me, going to school was a place to get away from, you know, all of the chaos. Um, I did well in school, so I think that certainly helped.

I had teachers that really poured into me, that invested into me, that saw my potential that I may not have seen or, you know have other people like family to support that. Also, being first generation college graduate, you know, I didn't have family members that went to college who could encourage me to do those sorts of things and really prepare me.

Right? We think about like college readiness and things that should be done. I wasn't in an environment, you know, familially that, you know, that could be. Like encouraged or nourished. Um, but then I have, I have two brothers older and younger. Um, and they struggled a lot in the education system. You know, my younger brother had a lot of behavioral issues, you know, pushed out of school, suspended a lot.

My older brother skipped school a lot. You know, there were just a lot of, a lot of challenges, to say the least. Um, and so I think like seeing how, you know, we come from the same household and have different outcomes, right? I think that's something that folks don't always pay attention to, but like, what are the greater factors that play a role in those differential outcomes?

Part of it is the system, right? The system just. Pushing out, especially boys of color, you know, being Puerto Rican and growing up in New York City, getting, you know, boys are getting pushed out of school when they're not, you know, falling in line, right? Versus like, oh, they're having challenges. Like, let's intervene and support, let's find out what's going on.

You know, familially, can we support the family? Um, you know, a lot of those things don't always happen for like our black and brown communities. So, I think personally that's something that I've always held with me. And I feel like I kind of fell into school psychology by accident. Um, a lot of people don't really know about school psychology.

You may not have ever heard of school psychology when you were in school. Um. And so when I went to undergrad, I thought I was going to be a business major. I was going to be an accountant. I was like, oh, I'm going to make money, like, you know, break this cycle of poverty, like all this stuff. And I hated it, right? I was going to like fail this microeconomics class my first semester, and I was like, oh my God, like I can't fail in school. Like I've worked so hard to get here. And there really isn't like a backup. Like, I can't move back home. Like there's just no way. Um, and I was taking psychology classes and you know, this, it's kind of a long story, but, um, I ended up working on campus at a clinic. Um, I went to Binghamton University, um, in upstate New York, as you know.

Um, there was a clinic that served the community. Um, so kids that had disabilities, learning disabilities and also more severe, um, like autism and some other neurodevelopmental disabilities. And so, I started working there and getting credit. Um, and I felt like, oh, this is, this is a space where I feel like I can make a contribution that I am passionate about.

Um, and some, some folks will fall into like clinical psychology, but I knew like given the context of school and how school is such a, school's challenging in so many ways as a system, um, but you can make a difference on, you know, a smaller scale. So, I felt like, oh, this is where I see myself working, you know, with people who look like me, who go to you know, urban schools, quote unquote “at risk.” Um, all those things. So I felt like, oh, this is where I want to be in some ways, right? 'cause you don't really know when you're in your 18, 19, 20, what you're going to do. Um, but I felt like that played a really large role in steering me toward really where I am now.

But also the other experiences of going into a PhD program, working as a school psychologist, and then, you know, becoming a faculty member and doing the work that I do. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

That's great to hear. I mean, it's good to know that, you know, you move toward a profession that you knew there was a need and there's still a continuing need in the, in the workforce for school psychologists, we have a shortage and so every, the training of every school psychologist really counts because there are so few of them.

There are not enough in our schools to support students like you're talking about. So, can you talk about when you were a school psychologist? What was it about your experience that led you to think about, “Hey, I want to start doing some research about this. I might want to move in a little bit of a different direction to make a different kind of contribution.

Dr. Desiree Vega:

Yeah, so I think I always knew that I wanted to be a faculty member. I think that was kind of a goal. I think for at some point I felt like. It wasn't an attainable goal, um, for, you know, reasons, like just not feeling like I would be good enough and, you know, all of those sorts of things. But I know when I was in my PhD training program at Ohio State, it was something that was an end goal for me. Like I ultimately want to be a professor. 

Um, but I also knew the importance of like getting training and experience as a school psychologist. You know, I'm in a practice-based field discipline, so having that real life experience to draw from is like really important to being a faculty member. So, I, you know, I kind of have this plan of like, oh, I'm going to work as a school psychologist for three years.

You know, enough time to get some training experience to get licensed as a, you know, a licensed psychologist and then, you know, make that kind of pivot to looking at faculty positions, like not too, you know, too long outside of, you know, the academic space. And so that was the, the goal, working as a school psychologist was very rewarding and challenging at times. I moved to Nebraska to work as a school psychologist in Omaha Public Schools. I had like the most amazing experiences and the most, you know, challenging, right? I think it's always like that word. It is so rewarding. But you're also so burnt out. Um, 'cause like you said, there are shortage, a severe shortage of school psychologists shortage of school psychologists of color, those that are bilingual, you know, all of those, you know, mi minoritized identities are severely underrepresented in school psychology. Um, so working as a school psychologist, I was kind of thrown right in part of school psychology training you have to do an internship in your last year before you can get your, your degree.

And so typically there's kind of a developmental model of you're under the supervision of. School psychologist, you're kind of shadowing them in their school, taking on some of their cases? No, I was thrown right in. I had three schools where I was the school psychologist. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

That had to, you know, I had to function as a school psychologist, so I went from being a PhD student to like, oh my God, I have to function as a school psychologist and also learn, you know, we get training along the way.

Of course, we're doing practicum and externship and all those things, but nothing compares to you. Everyone's looking at you at the end of the day to make a decision and you're trying to figure out like, what am I doing? Well, you have supervision. Of course I had supervision. Um, but one of the schools I worked at was a dual language school.

Dean Deil-Amen:

Okay. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

So, you know, pretty much like, you know, I don't want to say a hundred percent, but probably 90 something percent Latino students, Latinx students and families. It was a community school. Um, so the school was very much involved in the community. It kind of reminds me of like Davis magnet, where very much embedded in the community.

Um, there's a lot of outreach, there's just good relationships between the school and the community. So that was like a really great place to work. I worked with a really amazing interpreter there that helped me really develop my bilingual skills as a school psychologist. because that training was fairly limited when I was in, in, you know, in graduate school.

And then, you know, I had two other schools that were different. Like one was primarily black and the other one was was primarily white, but they had a lot of kids bussed in from other sides of the community. So, we had a lot of immigrant students, Latinx students, et cetera. Um, so I had like a, you know, wide range of, of needs in, in the schools I was working at and training experiences.

But I think for me, like really getting to have that training as a bilingual school psychologist. And also work with some great teams, but also some teams in the schools that, you know, lacked the infrastructure to support schools not having like an intervention model or even an interventionist, um, you know, the assistant principal being just bogged down with just discipline.

Um, like seeing all of those experiences definitely were great and also contributed to my burnout as a school psychologist. But I think, again, like those experiences were really important for me shifting into a faculty role because I, I could see firsthand like, what are the needs? Like what do school psychologists need?

Dean Deil-Amen:

Right? Right. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

What did I need? Mm-hmm. And that I, I didn't have from, you know, the previous four years of my graduate training. So, I think that was really helpful. And so I wasn't really like, seriously looking for faculty position. So, I think that's the, when I was saying like. I wanted to be a faculty, but I really wasn't sure, and there's imposter syndrome and you know, all of those things.

I didn't have like formal teaching experience, so I just felt like maybe I'm not ready, but I also felt like I could only take so much more of working in the schools and you know, I got a PhD to be able to do more than just work in the school. Like there's nothing wrong with working in the school, like we need, clearly need people to work in the school, but I felt like my purpose was greater and I wanted to expand.

And so, um, it just so happened that someone forwarded a job posting from Texas State University where I worked for my first faculty position before I came here. And, you know, again, I wasn't really like looking that hard and I just, you know, someone forwarded the email. And I was like, oh my God, this, this position was written for me.

You know, they wanted someone who was bilingual, who had worked with, you know, English language learners whose research would focus on that to help them develop a bilingual training program.

Dean Deil-Amen:

Oh, wow. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

So, I was like, oh, this is like, yeah. I was like, oh my God. I like, I have to apply. And this was, you know, probably like January and, you know, people are applying in the fall for positions and this position opened late, so it worked out pretty well.

Um, I remember I got hired in like late April and May, so things happened pretty late, but I feel like it, you know, it was, it was like divine timing if you believe in that. Um, and so, yeah, that's really all of that. I know that was long. Um, but that really helped me think about like moving toward a faculty position and how I can, you know, shape my faculty role, my research agenda, how I train students, how I mentor students, all of that stuff. And, you know, the experiences that I had being a school psychologist. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Great. Great. I mean, I want to get into your research and how you train students and there are a lot of things going through my mind. It's just, it's just fascinating to hear your story about how. You know, you were doubting and second guessing yourself, and now I know that you're an award-winning faculty member, right?

You are so stellar. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

Thank you. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Um, and I'm glad that you moved in this, in this direction, and especially because you have this professional experience that really informs what you do now, right? So, I'm, I'm really excited to hear more about what you do now, uh, for people who don't know what school psychology research looks like.

You know, what does your research look like and how do you translate that into training new school psychologists to maybe be better prepared than you felt you were, and to give them a better context for engaging in the work that they do in schools?

Dr. Desiree Vega:

Yeah, so my school psychology research, I mean, I feel like I have a lot of different research areas, but the one that you know, I'm most passionate about and engage in the most is around bilingual school psychology training.

Um, which, you know, again stems from my own experiences working as a bilingual school psychologist. And then when I worked at Texas State University, I was there for three years. Before I came here in, in 2016, um, we were able to get an OSEP grant, you know, Department of Education grant in my second year, I believe.

Um, and we developed a, you know, a bilingual training program, sorry, collaborated with, you know, there's probably about 12 or so, there's over 250 school psychology programs across the us. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

And there's probably about. 12 to 15 that have a bilingual specialization. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Oh, wow. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

And so, it's very, very few. Um, but I did reach out to, you know, some of the folks who've had these programs for a long time to think about like, how do we develop a bilingual training model, right? Like, there's not really a lot of wiggle room either because. Like school psychology, we're accredited with, you know, NASP and a APA and so our program is course heavy already.

Dean Deil-Amen:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Desiree Vega:

I mean, I'm sure you've seen that with our school psych program here. But we were able to add a few courses. One, making like an assessment of, you know, culturally and linguistically diverse students, making it mandatory for all students in the program, which I think is really important when we think about training.

Um, it's not just for those who are bilingual, but more. More school psychologists are monolingual than bilingual. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Right, right.

Dr. Desiree Vega:

There's such a small percentage. I think the latest data is like, I don't know, 80 something percent are monolingual. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Right, right.

Dr. Desiree Vega:

English speaking. So, it's, it's highly likely that if you're a monolingual English speaking school psychologist, you're going to have to work with students from all sorts of cultural, linguistic backgrounds. So, you also need that preparation. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Right. And I can see how that's important, because psychological health is really not just an individual issue. It's really involving the family. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

And the wider community. Right? 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

Yes. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

In terms of the work that school psychologists do. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

Exactly. Okay. Yeah. So, it can't just fall on, you know, a bilingual person. Right? It needs to be really everyone, whether you have that language skill. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Desiree Vega:

Or not. So, yeah, we developed a, you know, bilingual training program there, uh, which I think, you know, was really great. And then I, you know, the opportunity to come here opened up, and I, you know, really wanted to work in a PhD program.

We had a specialist level program at Texas State. Um, I, you know, always knew I wanted to expand my research, you know, being at R two, there's only so many opportunities that you have. I had a higher teaching load, all those things. And so, coming here, being able to like, expand the work that I do. Having more time to do research as a junior faculty, not so much now.

Dean Deil-Amen:

Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

Um, and then to be able to, like you said, like how, you know, how do you use that work to train, you know, current students. Right. And so I think that's a large part of what we're doing. Like, I have done several studies. I'm, I'm primarily qualitative researcher, which is rare in school psychology. So, there's challenges that come with that.

Um, as, you know, a discipline that really does not respect qualitative research, to be very honest with you. Um, but I feel like that is, it’s really important. Other fields know that it's important. Qualitative work is important, but for, you know, for whatever reason, school psychology does not value it as much.

But being able to ask someone, right, like, tell me about your training experiences. Like what worked, what didn't work? 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Desiree Vega:

What would you have liked? Like I could do a survey of course, and I have done survey research, but you don't really get to the meat of it. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Exactly. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

Right. So I think like the work that I've been doing, interviewing school psychologists locally, also nationally, those who've gone to bilingual training programs, um, I think that's probably one of the things that has been a bit surprising is even the school psychologists who did their training at school psychology programs that had bilingual specializations still felt very unprepared to work as bilingual school psychologists. So I think with this work that I've been doing, you know, try to incorporate it into training, you know, into the classes I teach, you know, we regularly meet as a faculty to think about like, how can we incorporate, you know, social justice more into our curriculum, but also serving, you know, our local communities, right?

We have indigenous students. Um, we have a large percentage of course, of Spanish speaking students. And so how do we enhance our curriculum so that we are better preparing the students who are going to be future school psychologists? Um, it's also led to collaborations, you know, collaborations with other faculty.

So, in California they have so many school psychology programs. And they have a few bilingual school psychology specializations, but they've developed a bilingual consortium to look at the competencies that are needed to be able to incorporate it into training. Um, and so they're trying to expand that work more nationally so that other programs are also able to see like, okay, like if I want to teach about counseling. Right? How do I incorporate the needs of bilingual families and kids and address that in counseling versus like our, you know, curriculum can be very, like one size fits all.

Dean Deil-Amen:

Like standard. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

Like, oh, this is how you do counseling. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Desiree Vega:

But what does that mean for a Black child, an immigrant, or, uh, someone who doesn't speak English, right? That one size fits all approach is not going to work for them. So, a lot of that work has, you know, come up more recently. And so, it's been good to, you know, be a part of that and also see the work that I've been doing, like other folks also doing that now. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Yeah, I mean that's really so fascinating to think about. And, I'm beginning to think about how, uh, the context of, of, of kids growing up can look so different. You know, an immigrant child whose family speaks a language other than English, they play a very different role in that family compared to one who maybe has been in this country for multiple generations and just the way the child rearing might work and the role that that child plays in the family to be a translator, right? To be navigating institutions is just so different. So, I could see how. A standardized approach really wouldn't work. And, and our goal is really to educate professionals who are more competent and capable to be in front of students no matter what their background. Right? So, I applaud that you've been kind of a leader in this field and moving in this direction and it's, it's a very responsive approach.

It's an approach that's responsive to the needs of communities in schools, and a very applied approach. Which is really important when we think about research. Your research is very, uh, directly applicable, right to professionals who will move directly into these, these settings. 

Thank you for listening to our Part One episode with Dr. Desiree Vega. Stay tuned for next week's episode. Where we dive into Dr. Vega's most interesting findings in her research as well as why she thinks training for school psychologists to work with bilingual populations of students is so important.