Inquiry Oasis Season 3: Dr. Tamara Lawson

Join us in learning about Dr. Tamara Lawson's research and work as an assistant professor in the Disability and Psychoeducational Studies Department here at the University of Arizona's College of Education.

In this episode, Dean Deil-Amen and Dr. Lawson discuss her research work with students in K-12 settings as well as her work as an assistant professor for students studying School Psychology. Dr. Lawson discusses how both inform the other, and how she prepares school psychology trainees for their practicum experiences and careers in K-12 school settings.

Dr. Lawson outlines a vision for education that moves beyond psychological testing and focuses on the individual student experience, the classroom, and school community.

Three Words that Describe Dr. Lawson's Work:

• Service
• Restoration
• Advocacy

Dr. Lawson's Recommended Reading:

Culturally Responsive School-based Practices: Supporting Mental Health and Learning for Diverse Students by Andy V. Pham and Anisa N. Goforth

Mentioned in this episode and defined here:

MTSS = Multi-Tiered Systems of Support

• MTSS is a framework containing four parts; screening, progress monitoring, multi-level prevention system, and data-based decision making. It is a framework that provides academic, behavioral, and social-emotional support to all students.

CRP = Culturally Responsive Practice

• CRP is a framework that boosts student engagement and success using students cultures as assets in the classroom. 

Transcript

Jeffrey Anthony:

Welcome to the Inquiry Oasis, the University of Arizona College of Education's podcast, here in the heart of the Sonoran Desert. We bring you conversations with our esteemed faculty members and staff whose research impacts lives from Southern Arizona to the far reaches of the globe. We explore the transformative power of education in this border town where diverse cultures and ideas converge, weaving a tapestry of innovation with compassion and a sense of wonder. So, join us as we journey through the sands of curiosity, unearthing insights that enrich and inspire. Sit back and relax. As we invite you to dive into the inquiry oasis.

Dean Deil-Amen:

Welcome to this episode of The Inquiry Oasis. We're here today with Dr. Tamara Lawson, who is an assistant professor in the Disability and Psychoeducational Studies Department. Dr. Lawson's research focuses on culturally responsive teaching and other practices which promote student learning, and it also helps students with engagement and academic success. Welcome, Dr. Lawson.

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dean Deil-Amen:

We're glad to have you here today. So, we'd like to start by asking the question, if you had to describe. Three words that represent what you are passionate about, what would those words be? Ooh. Um, I think to start, I would say service. So, really thinking about the service that I provide to my community, to the students that I serve, to the families that I serve, and even my students as a professor and trainer.

I think the second word that comes to mind is restoration. So, when I think about restoration, I think about returning something to its rightful place or condition, um, and really honoring that. And I think a lot of my work is able to do that through storytelling. So, working with the youth and having them share and highlight stories and their narratives about their experiences.

And also, the community. So, they're able to tell their stories the way that they want to. And then for the last one, I would say advocacy. Um, so making sure that in my work, um, I think it's, it's deeply rooted within the work that I do and also who I am. So, making sure that I'm advocating for the students that I'm serving, the black students in particular, um, in K through 12 settings, really thinking about how I'm advocating as a school psychologist, even as a trainer, making sure that I am sort of instilling in students that I'm training, that are going out into the field, understanding how to properly and appropriately advocate for students and families that they're serving. I'm really thinking about the communal aspect and collaboration that comes with that. So, even through the lens of let's say, consultation, like who's the person that's representing, maybe someone who can't represent themselves, um, at the time. So, thinking about like students who may not always be involved in the conversations as it pertains to their learning and their experiences. Thinking about the families that also deserve to be advocated for, um, and their rights in the educational spaces and also school staff, right? And other mental health professionals, um, that also deserve to be advocated for appropriately. 

So, those are like the big three words that I would come up with that really highlight why I'm passionate about what I do and why I do what I do, essentially. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

All right. Thank you. Can you talk more about this idea of storytelling and the value that it brings to the students that you are sending out into the field?

So, if you can back up a little bit and tell us about what are the degree programs as most of your students are enrolled in?

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

And what career pathway, are they on? And then what is that value of that storytelling, you think to their preparation to go into the field? 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Yeah, so a big part. So, I train future school psychologists.

So, some of them may go into the field as traditional school psychs. So, they're practitioners, so they may do things like testing, consulting with teachers, doing running small groups, interventions, really thinking about maybe even systems level work. So how are they informing policies within the schools that they're working in.

But I also train students who are maybe going into academia, ones who are researchers and who desire to be researchers. So, a big part of my work as an early career scholar is doing qualitative research and that's where that storytelling comes into play. So even in the classroom, I am taking my experiences and bringing that within the classroom to sort of set the tone and tell a story around students' experiences in K through 12 settings.

So even before students may even get to that, get into their like practicum experiences, they kind of have a sense of maybe the experiences of students, and particularly those from marginalized backgrounds, um, students who may have experiences where maybe their experiences in schools are not the best.

So really learning how to navigate conversations and difficult conversations with parents or difficult conversations with school staff or even with themselves, right? So, checking themselves is a big part of that and a big part of the training experience. So going in and working through your own biases, working through things that may impact your work directly or maybe indirectly.

Um, so a lot of that is through, a lot of that happens through the storytelling. So, bringing my own clinical training, my own experiences, working in schools, um, being able to have the experiences that I have. So, I've worked across different regions. I've worked on the east coast. I've trained on the east coast.

Trained in the Midwest and just being able to, to highlight the different experiences that may take place that maybe students aren't aware of, if they're coming in with maybe limited schooling experiences or just not being exposed to, you know, different districts. So being able to highlight that I think is, is critical to the training experience.

Dean Deil-Amen:

Okay, great! So, it sounds as if there are some challenges that exist currently in school systems that relate to the students' experiences with school psychology and the way that school psychologists have traditionally approached the problems of schools, of school systems, and of the students in our schools.

So, can you talk a little bit about what those challenges are and how your research addresses some of those challenges? 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Yeah, so a big part of my research is highlighting the student experience. So, I do that through mainly looking at their sense of belongingness and how they're navigating K through 12 spaces.

I think thinking about adolescent experiences, they go through a lot of developmental phases within that time. Um, and navigating school cannot, is not always the easiest thing to do. So, one of the big parts of my research when thinking about how school psychs can, you know, come in and, and step in and support them.

I think just across the board, like we have a lot of training. We have, you know, our whole competencies and aims and domains of practice that really advocate and, and work towards supporting students and work towards supporting not only students with disabilities or different challenges, but everybody, like it is a, a very like system level approach.

Like even thinking about like MTSS, um, which is really looking at supporting students across all the tiers. So even those that may not present with challenges versus those who may need more intensive support. So, a big part of my research is really highlighting. How we do that as school psychologists, how we do that as mental health professionals.

And when I think about our role in the schools and in supporting students, it really is getting down to understanding what they need, which a lot of it is engaging in conversation. So not just talking around them but really figuring out the best way to support them. And sometimes that's inviting them into the conversation.

So, with, even in my research, it really is highlighting what they want, what they desire, what they deem as you know, best fit for them. And of course, it's demographic by demographic and sample by sample. But I do feel like a lot of it can be applied in different settings and across settings. So that's kind of why I focus on the population that I focus on, um, and really looking at sort of the communal aspects. 

So not just their experiences, but also what they're coming in with. So, looking at the ecology of a student. They come in with many different experiences, many different backgrounds and identities, um, and being able to figure out a way to highlight that.

And I understand that that's not solely focused, or that's not solely the job of a school psychologist, but really figuring out ways that we can incorporate all folks that are, you know, supporting the students. So not just school psychs, but admin, teachers, other mental health professionals really figuring out a way to all come together and collaborate to support them best.

Dean Deil-Amen:

Your research is actually very fascinating, and we all know how important it is for students of that age. Mm-hmm. To get support. Mental health is a huge challenge right now in school success at every level, especially at the levels that you're focusing on. Um, so I'm interested to learn more about your approach to your research.

And I know that you use the concept of cultural responsiveness. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson :

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen :

I want to get a sense of what your definition of that is, and. Along with that, what some of your research has found, what are some of the findings that relate to your application of that concept to your research projects? 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Yeah, so when I think about culturally responsive practices, culturally relevant work. I think it really is looking at linking that cultural experience of the student, the teacher, whoever's, you know, working in the school. Really thinking about linking that home and school experience, either through curriculum, either through building teacher student relationships, really examining how a student is being taught and what they're being taught. 

So, a big part of that is finding more meaning. So yes, you can have a standard curriculum, but is it culturally responsive? Is it adhering to that student's experiences and that student's cultural background? Um, and if not really figuring out ways to adapt different strategies that can really build upon that student's cultural strength. So, and, and that's a big part of that, inviting them into the process.

So, I think about my own schooling experience when I was in high school in particular, I had teachers who had the standard curriculum, but given the demographics of the students that they were serving, they really invited our cultural background. So, we weren't only learning about Shakespeare, but we were also learning about Zora Neale Hurston and Richard Wright.

And also learning about like different poets that really highlighted the Black experience. And I think that that's, like, that was something that, if I think about like a concrete example of cultural responsiveness and, and really adapting different strategies and bringing in the students in that process, like that's a part of it. I think that that really highlights how you can go about doing that. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Okay. And what would you say is the goal of culturally responsive practice? What impact did it have on you, for instance, as a student? I know that some people think about cultural responsiveness in that it's an end in and of itself to expose students to different content, but does it have an impact on other aspects of students and outcomes, successes?

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Yeah, so what I'm noticing even in my work is that it's not only impacting the academics. So, a lot of the work that I've found has been focused on, you know a classroom or a researcher implementing something that may be culturally responsive in the curriculum, or having like a tailored program that is culturally responsive and implementing that and sort of assessing how students are impacted by that. 

And one of the, one of the major findings is like, it's not just the academics, it's not just the GPA, it's not just closing the gap that's happening academic wise, but it's also impacting behavior. So, you're seeing that students are more engaged when it's relevant to their experiences.

They're not learning about the same things. And even in my qualitative work, I found that students, they desire to have their experiences highlighted in the classroom. So, when we're talking about like things related to the black experience, highlighting it all, not just focusing on the standard around like enslaved folks, but really looking at like the experiences of Black folks beyond that.

The current issues I've had a lot of participants talk about wanting to know about the current issues that are taking place for the Black experience, and if you don't know, asking them about it so they can have a rich discussion around how that's impacting, you know, their experiences and their learning outside of that.

It's really a way to foster belonging. So, when you think about building your curriculum around students' experiences, and not just black students, but all students, it, it does foster this sense of belonging within the classroom. So, feeling seen for one, which we know can impact them emotionally. It also can help support the teacher student relationship that's being impacted or influenced by that teacher.

So, if they're noticing that their teacher is taking effort in their learning experiences outside of just what the standard curriculum is, that means a lot. And I think that a big part of being culturally responsive is doing that. So, you are responding to how a student is making meaning of their experiences.

You are inviting their home and their culture and their background into the classroom, not just in the curriculum, but even the visuals around the classroom. Right? Like who are they seeing? Like who's representing them? Are they seeing people that represent them? I've walked around some schools and that hasn't always been the case.

So, if I'm not seeing myself and I also don't have a deep connection or a personal connection with the teacher or a staff member, if I'm not seeing myself in the curriculum, then it can beg the question of do I feel like I belong in this space? 

Dean Deil-Amen:

All right. Thank you for that explanation. I could really see the value of the research that you do because, you know, cultural responsiveness is a tool to get to engagement. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

To get to belonging, which we all know is a factor that's necessary for students' academic success. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

And school success and also you're explaining how those kinds of approaches are assisting with students mental health and emotional health. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Right? And that relates to their behavior, right?

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

So, everyone talks about classroom management and behavior management. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Yeah. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Right? So, you're getting at the heart of it and sort of almost preventing those negative outcomes from happening. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

By having an approach that reflects the student's interests. And it could be any student, right. So that's an important point.

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Yeah. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Is that everyone has a home life, everyone has a culture, everyone has a community. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

So, the more you see, reflect that as a tool toward learning, the more successful you'll be in the classroom. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Yeah. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

As well as those who support classroom learning, school psychologists in particular. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm.

Dean Deil-Amen:

So, thanks for that explanation. Can you tell us a little bit about any very surprising or some of the most intriguing findings from your research? 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Honestly, when I approach this work with students, one of the things that's always surprising is how much information and insight they have to offer. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Mm. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

So, they have a lot of experiences, and they know what they want. I feel like within every interview, I'm always surprised by like, “oh wow, like you noticed that. Like you see that”, and it impacts them. And I, and I wish that there were more conversations where students were a part of it. And I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I think that the students that I have worked with, the youth that I have worked with, I think a lot of them, they desire to be heard.

They desire to have these discussions and conversations with, you know, their school communities, even outside of their teachers, like, who's supporting them. You know, they want to have conversations around what that support will look like for them, what qualities they want their teachers to possess and, and have as a way to support them in their learning.

So, they're really advocating for themselves, I think, in their storytelling of, this is what I desire and I mean, they come up with their own implications for what they would like to see in the classroom. Like, “this would really work for me. I would really benefit from this. I wish I saw this more.” 

And it's, it's always interesting because I think that historically there hasn't been a lot of research that has focused on the student experience from the student's perspective. And I think that it makes sense when you're talking about curriculum, right? To hear from teachers, which I completely understand, but I also feel like students also have a lot to say and through these qualitative interviews, being able to hear that and sort of apply that to shape how teachers are taking that sort of into like the Monday, right? 

So, if a, if a teacher or a school, a school staff member heard how a student was perceiving their learning experiences and being able to apply that and sort of seeing how things are shaping and changing within the classroom. I mean, that's, that, that's a dream, right? 

So really applying what is being said. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Okay. So as the current dean of the College of Education. I have encountered some people who don't fully understand what educational research is and what it's about. So, you mentioned interviews. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Can you tell our audience a little bit more about what is the design of your research, oftentimes? You know, they, when they think about research, they often think about labs, right? 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Or the standard scientific method in the field, in the science fields, right? But it's hard for them to envision what is educational research? Right? And then how is it applied? So, can you tell us a little bit more about what that looks like for you and your research?

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Yeah, so I do, like I said, a lot of interviewing of participants. I think when I think about the educational piece, it really is focusing on like, how do, how am I applying this within the educational system? 

So, I think not only taking the research, analyzing it, doing the standard, you know. Method and analysis but really thinking about those findings and taking them out of the discussion, taking them out of the implication section and really figuring out ways to inform interventions within the educational system.

So, taking it from the manuscript and really figuring out ways to, like I said, apply it that Monday. So, what that may look like educational wise is looking at the findings. So, a lot of my work informs future intervention and practice. So, I'm not only interviewing students to get their perspective, but really figuring out ways, “okay, how can we inform practice within schools, um, in K through 12 schools and middle schools and high schools?” Um, even beyond that, thinking about the preparation programs that are taking place. So, thinking about like teacher training programs, “what can we take back to these programs to inform the best supports for our students?”

So really looking at how we are. Taking those findings and not only informing intervention practice, what that may look like, protocols, procedures, policy. So even thinking like more of like a systems level approach of things that are going to trickle down to the school building, to the school culture, to informing the school climate interactions with teachers and practice.

So outside of publications, really thinking about ways to make it applicable. So, a lot of my work is focusing on the intervention piece. It's focusing on the protocol piece within the educational system. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Okay, so one of the values of our college is to have scholars like you in the classroom teaching students who are going to go out into the field to be educational professionals like school psychologists.

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

So you, you doing your own independent research on an ongoing basis. You being up on the field of what's, what are some of the new findings around school psychology? What works, what doesn't work? 

Dr. Tamara Lawosn:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

What value do you think that brings to the students who are in your classrooms? Um, in terms of your scholarly identity as well as what you referred to earlier, which is your personal trajectory.

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm.

Dean Deil-Amen:

You know how you utilize your own experiences in schools and your personal experiences to shape the research that you're interested in, you know, what benefit does that bring to the students in our classrooms? 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Oh, I think it brings a ton of benefit, um, not just focusing on my training experiences to be able to highlight, “Hey, this was my experience related to this ethical concern. This was my experience when I was engaged in consultation with the first year teacher.”

I think it, it makes it more, I think it brings like a reality to it or like actuality of this can take place. Like this is a, this is something that can happen within the schooling system, um, in the educational system, in the classroom in ways to navigate that as a school psychologist and as a mental health professional.

Um, and I think a lot of that, even thinking about my research, just sort of seeing the connection in what's being taught. So, a lot of times within this may be common in other fields, but within school psychology in particular, we talk a lot about how in our training, what we're being trained on and, and the theories and the practices and the experiences we may go into the field and it's completely opposite, right? 

So, you have a standard of practice. We have best practices in how we're training students to enter the field, but sometimes we may, students may go into the field and things look a little different, um, just based on what schools are doing and how they're operating and really thinking about how they are utilizing the resources that they have on hand. And sometimes that does not look like what students are being trained to navigate when we think about theoretical approaches, um, I think a lot of the research behind that is really bringing in the experiences like the current experiences, right?

So not just my training through the lens of a school psych, but also the student's experience through my research, the family member's experience, a school staff member, a teacher's experience. And really seeing the bridge and the connection that has taken place. So, while you may look at it through the lens of a school psych and training or um, an early career school psych, uh, practitioner. I think really understanding holistically what's taking place. So, understanding everybody's role and experience and point of view. And I think that research and especially research that's done within schools can really highlight that to where students are able to see before going out into the field or even in their practicum experiences, like, “Hey, this came up in class”, right?

So, they're not only hearing about the theories and ways to apply and best practice, but also the real deal, like lived experiences of what they may encounter. Um, and I'm always not, not necessarily surprised, but it happens where students are like, “yeah, we talked about how this may not always happen the way that it happens and I'm glad that I was prepared.”

 Um, and I think that's a big part of the training is just being honest about what schools, especially now given, you know, the current climate of just how students and how schools are having to navigate some of these experiences in situations that are taking place at schools, like it looks very different sometimes than what someone's being trained on, how to engage in practice.

So being able to have the real lived experience, the training, and also the theory and science behind it. I think it, it really works to the students benefit the trainees benefit to understand all aspects of it. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Thank you for that explanation. You know, I think it really demonstrates how, you know, learning theory is oftentimes it can be divorced or disconnected from current experiences.

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

But what, what you are saying is that being in a classroom with, with a scholar who's doing current research that values the voice and the lived experience of those students.

Dr. Tamara Lawson: 

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Brings that experience into the classroom. Right? So yes, you're learning about theory, but, but the value of current research is that, you know, what's currently happening with those students.

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Yeah. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Especially with a qualitative research approach. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

And so it's almost counterintuitive to the way people think about classroom learning. Right? And so, I love that explanation and, and it really brings to life that, that benefit that you're talking about. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Mm-hmm. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

Okay. And so we usually end by asking about a particular book or paper or article that you would recommend to our audience because it has impacted you and you think it will impact their thinking or learning? 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Yeah, so I have a book to suggest. So, Culturally Responsive School-based Practices: Supporting Mental Health and Learning for Diverse Students. Um, this book really focuses on not only the foundational pieces of CRP,  but really looking at effective ways to conduct culturally responsive assessment and really promoting overall wellbeing, mental health practices for diverse students. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

All right. Thank you. Thank you for that. And anything else you wanna add about the research that you do to share with our audiences?

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Just that there's more to come. I have a few projects, um, that I'm currently working on and a few that are coming down the pipeline for publication. So, I'm looking forward to, you know, having more work that's going to highlight, that's going to highlight the experiences of students and practitioners and even looking at school staff experiences as well. So, I'm looking forward to sharing that. 

Dean Deil-Amen:

All right. Well, well, we look forward to that as well. And thank you for joining us today on uh, inquiry Oasis. 

Dr. Tamara Lawson:

Thank you.