The Company Road Podcast
In this podcast we’ll be exploring what it takes to change a company. Taking the big steps, or the smaller steps in between.
This one’s for the intrapreneurs. You’ll be getting to know some big, brave and darn right outrageous personalities, luminaries, pioneers of business and hearing what they’ve done to fix the thorniest of problems within organisations.
The Company Road Podcast
E67 Authenticity in the Spotlight: Evolving Social Media for Real Connections
"We know that authentic content is what comes through. We know storytelling is so important. So I actually help businesses bring it back in-house if they felt like they were very over-reliant on external factors. No one knows us, our customer, and our business better than we do." – Kim James
In this episode, you’ll hear about:
- How platforms like Facebook and TikTok have changed over the years and the strategies that work today.
- Why authenticity and understanding customer behaviour are central to impactful marketing.
- The shift towards businesses managing their own social media and the benefits of in-house teams.
- Kim’s personal journey, including the risks she took and the lessons she learned about growth and purpose.
- The importance of building a personal brand for future-proofing your career and opening new opportunities.
- How to use AI tools to create content more efficiently without losing authenticity.
Key links
About our guest
Kim's candid stories and down-to-earth advice will make you laugh, think, and maybe even dream bigger.
With a decade of experience in content and digital marketing, Kim helps organisations launch and scale their marketing strategies, campaigns, and products.
Her approach integrates insights and a passion for consumer behaviour with human psychology to create industry-leading content strategies and funnels that can be applied to all industries.
About our host
Our host, Chris Hudson, is a Teacher, Experience Designer and Founder of business transformation coaching and consultancy Company Road.
Chris considers himself incredibly fortunate to have worked with some of the world’s most ambitious and successful companies, including Google, Mercedes-Benz, Accenture (Fjord) and Dulux, to name a small few. He continues to teach with University of Melbourne in Innovation, and Academy Xi in CX, Product Management, Design Thinking and Service Design and mentors many business leaders internationally.
For weekly updates and to hear about the latest episodes, please subscribe to The Company Road Podcast at https://companyroad.co/podcast/
Hello and welcome back to the company road podcast, which is your go to destination for inspiring stories and actionable insights, fueling your journey towards impactful innovation in some way, hopefully today, and today I'm really thrilled to have a dynamic guest who combines humor, wisdom, and a rich tapestry of experience really to captivate and challenge us all. Kim James, welcome to the show.
Kim James:your having me. Happy to be here.
Chris Hudson:Yeah, thank you. I'll just explain a bit about your background. So you've got an approach to candid storytelling and down to earth advice that I'm really curious about and I really want to kind of get into today. And you'll probably not only make us laugh, but you'll also inspire some people on the show. To dream bigger and probably think differently as well, which is exactly what we want. So, from your background, you've got a unique approach and it blends insights into consumer behavior and human psychology, and you're looking at industry leading content strategies, but content is your thing, social content, sort of world is what we're going to be going into across various fields. And I think this is. Wisdom that everyone, entrepreneur, anyone in this day and age, because we see social and content all the time, we need to know how to do some of this stuff and probably do it a bit better. So bringing that into our work, how can we achieve more impact and yeah, I want to get into your story really, Kim, and how you as a thought leader have graced local and international stages. And you've done all this work with amazing organizations, with TikTok, Hootsuite, or whoever you want to mention, but yeah, keen to get into it with you today. So maybe you could just start by telling your story a little bit. And we'll start with, your experience with the working world today, what's happened for you?
Kim James:Yeah, absolutely. No, I appreciate it. I was actually on a podcast once and they wrote it to me of like Kim's candid stories and down to earth advice will make you think, dream, and maybe even, go a bit further in life. So that's what that kind of came through. And I was like, Oh, lovely, but, Yeah, no, I actually started in the corporate world straight out of university, grew up on a macadamia farm in a rural, like regional Northern New South Wales, but always wanted to have the corporate world, always wanted to live that life, saw it from when I was younger. So I actually started out as an operations graduate with Reece Plumbing. Always wanted to get into marketing, but I was very aware that, coming up in the country, I didn't have the opportunities for internships like others. So I actually started in operations management. I remember they said to me, do you know what the role actually entails? I was like, I don't care. Get me to the city. I just want to start. So I actually started in operations in plumbing in Parramatta of Western Sydney. Then from that, I actually grew with the company and grew internally. And that's where I really started to understand that. No one's coming to find you to give you a dream job. If you want to get somewhere, the saying always was, if you put in that the company will give it back to you. And yeah, I kind of just started pioneering that moved into the marketing team, moved to Melbourne. And this was 10 years ago where we had Facebook pages, but. There was no strategy that people think that TikTok now is like just this rogue place. You should have seen Facebook pages 10 years ago. That was the rogue of social media. But at the point we didn't have Reece Bathrooms had a very established like content and social presence, but us, we didn't really think it was there and there wasn't any actual ways of working or strategy. So I put my hand up. I'd done a post grad in digital marketing through the Chartered Institute. Said to the plumbing marketing leader, what are we doing? We're one of Australia's biggest brands. Like, why aren't we on content? Why are we taking it seriously? And they're like, I don't know, work it out. So I just Googled how to write a content strategy, how to do social media. And I had a bit of a background, but I'd be lying if I said that it was really the degree that got me there. It was the Google search. And yeah, set a meeting on a Friday afternoon, invited everyone had the CMO in there and I left me like, Look at me, great meeting, what a day. And they were like, she's right. Someone has to do this full time. And then they asked the other leaders on the Monday and then asked me if I'd do the role on the Tuesday. And that's how it started. Like it was very, do you want to be our first content person? And it was a journey. It was coming into really digitizing a business at a time where we were still heavily traditional marketing. We still had print newsletters that would go into stores. Brick and mortar so there was that early period that was the real grit that when you're trying to digitize and change your business, but bring them along on that journey with you that I learned firsthand. And then, yeah, from there, we then scaled it broader and bigger resource. I had its own internal agency. So then we moved into that in 2020 and actually worked with a few other brands. But being Reece, we obviously had the opportunity to be customers of some really awesome tech companies. So I actually then went to Hootsuite as the strategist for Australia and New Zealand and Asia. And was that in 2022, but unfortunately the tech industry, the structure wasn't set up for long term success where we were made redundant at that time. But then about two weeks later, I got contacted by someone else in the industry that was this small business that was absolutely killing it in the government space. And I'm thinking, how is this small business absolutely killing it with the biggest federal and state government clients? So I was like, you piqued my interest. I'm in. And then from that actually spent, yeah, about two years with government and social, which was a whole other breadth of opportunities. That was when we were looking at social. Social intelligence and citizen communications, making sure people were getting the right information during times of crisis or also that resilience afterwards. So yes, it did that. And then there's nothing like growing a bit older and thinking. When is the time that you build something of your own? And that's been me for the past few months and I've yet started to build an opportunity of my own. I've threw in that. The last 10 years in this industry, I've really started to see that we've got a bit of a divide where originally digital and social was just handed out elsewhere. Like when social started coming up, it was a bit of like, Ooh, I don't want to do it. And someone be like, I'd do it. And they go, great, give it to an agency or a freelance, but we've got such a divide now. And we know that authentic content is what comes through. We know storytelling is so important. So I actually help businesses bring it back in house if they felt like they were very over reliant on external factors, but they're like, well, hang on, no one knows us, our customer and our business and our industry better than we do. A lot of businesses have started to resource that internally, getting a social media manager, a bit of content, maybe a content creator. So I actually help them bring'em back in house. I bring my whole toolbox of toolkits and everything's tried, tested, and I've got the story and the lessons to come along with it for a good yarn. And yeah, I help businesses do that. Or on the flip side, work with everyone from intrapreneurs, entrepreneurs, founders on their personal brands. So that's a bit of my story. In what? Two minutes?
Chris Hudson:That's a whistle stop. Wow. Wow. You can take a breath now there. No, that was awesome. That was impressive. I think from the idyllic scenery of the macadamia farm and obviously into the city, and then it sounds like you're on a rollercoaster from the start there were opportunities, there was lots going on. And I remember that time myself, actually, it was all happening at speed. And it was the speed and the confusion. Those two things don't really work that well together. A lot of people try to figure it out. And I think it took almost the brave few to have the courage within organizations to basically say, Oh, well. Nobody else out there is going to do it any worse. So why don't we just have a crack at it and start putting things in place? And all of a sudden that's the first stepping stone. And then it's leading to foundational activities. And then after a couple of years, you're refining and iterating a little bit, but a lot of people really held back, from jumping in two feet and that they kind of had to catch up later and maybe. I don't know, maybe they were faster to market from some lessons that were learned already. But yeah, it did feel like a pretty exciting time. And yeah, I mean, yeah, go on.
Kim James:I was just gonna say, there's nothing like in your 20s to take so many risks. Like I think now being older with that hindsight, I look back at my younger self and I think, God, you were so like ready to take any risk. I think for me, I was kind of like, I can always go back to the farm. I can always go back to the country make the most of it. And yeah, I just absolutely say to people in your twenties, take as many career risks as possible because that first 10 years will set up the trajectory. Like it is going to set up who you know, what you learn and what opportunities that you can flourish. And then your older self would be like, Oh, thank God. I took all those risks at 23 years old.
Chris Hudson:Yeah, yeah. Can you remember what felt to be the biggest risk that you took during that time?
Kim James:Honestly, going and asking a business, Hey, you don't have this. I, can I do it? That was something that I think back and I think right now we, we are so cautious about risks of do I have the right resume? Have I got enough experience? And we're finding that perfect, but I haven't worked in social. Obviously I've been auditing and helping Facebook pages since university days, but I just had this figure it out, which now myself as a business owner, I've learned everything is figureoutable, but honestly, back then it was probably putting my hand up to go, Oh yeah. An Australian love brand with almost a hundred years of history. I can absolutely grow and manage a community that I'd never done before. I would say it was probably that.
Chris Hudson:Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Was that a Marie Forleo quote that you just dropped in there? Everything is figureoutable or is that one of yours? I've read the book as well. My wife's read it too, but yeah. Yeah, no, she's awesome. I think she's right though. I think if you've got that appetite and you've got that conviction and you feel like not only can you figure things out, but that positions you in a stronger position, right? You feel like you can help and support people. So if you're putting that forward, the people are going to trust you, presumably. And
Kim James:if you can also go to a business and go, hi. There is an opportunity here. I have the solution businesses. Listen, there's two types of people that's like, Oh, this is a, I can see this as an issue we need to fix this. Or if you really want to fast track your career, this is an issue. I can see the solution and I'm actually the one that can actually resolve it. Whole lot of the different world business will go. Yes, please implement. I've been doing that since. Probably, yeah, when I first took that, that one, and even the last company I was at within six months, I said, this is everything we've done in six months, but I actually could see myself doing this other role, which was a bigger breadth of work, and this is how I would do it, and this is how we could help structure it, and they were like, yeah, no brainer.
Chris Hudson:Yeah, and I think if we're thinking about intrapreneurs who listen to this show, then if everything is figureoutable, then they can learn from this chat. If they're in that sort of mindset and they can figure stuff out and just get it done and move ahead with confidence, that actually the step into entrepreneurship and out into running your own business at a certain point in your career, if that point comes up is not, it's not a massive, or it's, it is still a massive leap, but it's not gonna be that, that hard to get your head around because you're doing a lot of presenting a lot of the activities. The behaviors, the attitudes, the things that you value, the way that you work all of that will be what you're already doing already within your organization. So yeah. Does that bring you into it?
Kim James:Yeah, a hundred percent. I think for me right now, working as a team of one is a completely different way of when I was in a business of 8, 000 people. I've seen other people talk about how in big business, you influence in small business to start up. You do. And that's absolutely prevalent. If you wanted to set a new strategy, do a new campaign, update the website and big business, you would put putting together a proposal to get feedback from other people. And we could do this and influencing what that looks like. When you're in a small business, it's like we need to do this. And everyone's like, yeah, great. Okay. What does that look like this? Can you do it tomorrow? And then now I update my website and I don't have to ask anyone. It's the weirdest experience after like 10 years of trying to get feedback for three months. So I think for that, if we can kind of identify that there is so many other avenues in our career. That are figureoutable. What are the transferable skills that you had in your past that can set you up to be ready for this is just the right mindset that's going to fast track it whether or not you're working for yourself or someone else.
Chris Hudson:Do you think back then you'd have considered yourself an intrapreneur, just out of interest?
Kim James:I think I probably would have now that I knew what it was. Like back then I was just honestly ready to go for it. I think I've naturally always been someone that staying stagnant is my biggest fear in life. Like I would felt like I was at battle with my brain, my entire twenties of like, I can't get stagnant. And as soon as I felt like I wasn't growing, my brain would be like, we're not happy. And I would be like, Off at night being like, what am I doing? Where am I going? I think I'm just a very purpose driven person that I had to see it out. What is that next thing? What is that growth? And that's where. I kind of through my other social channels call the career goal diary is talk to people about that of this is how I did get ahead. And I say to people, your career, no one's coming to find you. No one's coming to give you your dream job, but if you take control of it in your hands and your trajectory, it's fast tracked and you're the one that's leading it. And yeah, it is more work, but choose your heart. Do you want to stay where you are? And then in five years time go, Oh, I wish I jumped sooner. Or do you want to go, wow, look what I've done in five years. So
Chris Hudson:yeah, no, that's interesting. I mean, how do you, if we think about that more practically, how do you, how can you describe some of the steps that you take to think about your plans, your purpose, where you're going, how often that happens, if you've got a routine?
Kim James:Yeah, I absolutely did. I mean, back now, now my routine is Whatever decision I make for myself, to be honest, which is just depends on the day that you asked, but back then I would absolutely treat performance reviews. Like it was that opportunity to have that one on one with the business. I would really identify and I had a bit of what are the main campaigns that I'd done? What are achievements have I hit? I also would have a bit of a smile file, which I said, others, especially now with teams and the ability for instant message, what are the messages people are saying? What are the emails you're getting and feedback, having all of that. And then for me, what I would do is I would actually go, okay, say if I was at a coordinator level and I would read, what is a senior coordinator or a senior strategist or a manager role look like? I would read the job title of what I wanted my next step to be, identify what those gaps were, and then speak with the business of, Hey, I actually would really love to do learning and development in these particular areas, which would elevate me if I put a business case, which then also my skillsets bigger, the business has that return of better quality work, then they would go great. And then, so when it came time to go, I want to step into the manager position, it was a no brainer because I had built myself to already get there. So having that ability that it's basically you're a product and start selling yourself. Treat yourself like a business case and those performance reviews to be that opportunity to do. So be really clear on what you want your next step to be and go into it. I'm sure that there's a lot of people on TikTok that would call that manifesting and maybe I manifested in vision board. My next role. Don't think I ever thought that it was like that, but I'm sure there's a viewer that it could be as well. But yeah, that's how I did it. I went, what would that be and how can I. Bring it to the business and go, well, we're here. I could get you to hear this is what I need to do it. And it just became a no brainer or on the flip side, if you get to that and the business goes, we can't, that is your opportunity to go. I've hit everything I can do here. And that's the main question I get asked is like, when do I move? When do I go somewhere else? And I say to people like, When that sponge is dry, when you are like, I cannot move any further, I cannot advance anymore. I want to get to this next opportunity. It can't be here. Then you go and find somewhere that it is.
Chris Hudson:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. I was going to ask about vision boards. I wasn't sure if that was one on your wall right next to you or behind you. I don't think it is. It's just a painting. So it's
Kim James:just, it's just a bow
Chris Hudson:manifest. So here's my lovely picture. Yeah. If you've got anything you want to share, we can screen share any of that stuff, but you don't have to, no pressure.
Kim James:No, I have a video that we can link in of like how I got promoted in my twenties. Cause obviously people would ask that funny. Yeah. I've got it. I post on TikTok and Instagram and I'd even had business owners comment being like, this is so true. Like if I had someone in my team bring me this, I'd be like, yeah, that's a no brainer.
Chris Hudson:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I mean, that all sounds like it sounds. Sensible. And obviously it worked for you. I mean, how did people respond to that when you were in the moment? And can you remember any stories from that time?
Kim James:I think it also really comes down to the business and the culture where I was very fortunate at Reece is that they were in a very big, a period of growth, period of digitization, and there was just the right people in the business at the right time that were also hungry for that next opportunity. So I was very fortunate. I had eight role level ups. Sorry, six in eight years of role level ups and about eight overall in 10 years when working for someone else before to work for myself. So it was definitely the right business that had that mindset as well. And also the right managers. We had opportunities where there'd been a change of leadership and someone had come in and I knew that they were young and hungry and I was like, Hey, This is what I want next. And so we had that dialogue and when would that look like and what would it be? And I presented them, this is everything that it would need to be. This is my business case. And yeah, at the time I was definitely in the place that was driving and hungry for that change.
Chris Hudson:Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. That's really cool. And yeah, I mean, obviously you're hugely driven, right? I'm wondering what sits behind that drive in a way, because some people get very driven because they face a lot of challenges or they might've come across something that really inspired them. If you got anything like that that springs to mind?
Kim James:Yeah, definitely. I probably wasn't as driven as this as a kid. I was a very creative kid that I did. It wasn't a high performer in high school. That was definitely not where I peaked. I was like a C grade student. Towards the end of high school. I was actually told I was, I got really unwell and I was looking at would I even finish high school? And I was just like, no chance. I'm not repeating. We finish right now. And just we got through that piece. I was like, just these absolute, no, I think I have this ingrained. If someone says you can't do something, I'm like, let me show you, take the photo and send it to you. So, yeah, that kind of ingrained and came through it, maybe like a lot of people right now, everyone's identifying going, Oh, maybe that's neurodivergency, which I've obviously experienced as well. But I think for me, yeah, I've always just kind of had that drive as soon as I got into university and there was that opportunity that this is your career and it's you're in the driver's seat. And I think. When I was in operations, as I said, it wasn't what I wanted to do early in my twenties. And I was sitting in Sydney and I was doing a role that it was a very math heavy role. I was not good at it and I count with my fingers, so it wasn't what I wanted to do. It wasn't creative, but I sat there going, no one's going to fix this. Like no one's going to give me my job. And I was young and hungry and I was like, I have to do it. So if no one else is going to do it. I have to. So probably that point of like early in my career, not being where I wanted to go and going, you go ahead, toughen up. No one's going to do it for you and pulling myself out of that. And then opening up every opportunity from there, to be honest.
Chris Hudson:So you're looking forward and also is the rear view kind of thing where if you turn around, you can see what's behind you. And that's the other option. You either go forward, you go back. So
Kim James:yeah. Yeah.
Chris Hudson:That's Irish too.
Kim James:Yeah. I strongly believe that the real whole what is the purpose of life is to have purpose, whether or not that's in your job, whether or not that's joining when you I'm part of Taylor Swift fandom, it is a purpose. You feel like you're part of something. You have purpose when you're in part of a football club with your team that you get to be part of every week. Like. The key to happy life is not happiness because not every day it's up and down. It's actually purpose. And you can have that working for someone else. If you were very values aligned business and people feel like they can see where they are now and where they get to. That purpose is what will keep your really good people in. And I had phenomenal years working for someone else. I strongly believe that I don't, and look, maybe my point will change in 10 years time, but I don't believe that everyone needs to work for themselves. I think you can have a phenomenal career working for someone else that's purpose driven, that you can have a great life. And I'll never say that a salary or a corporate role is the bad thing to do, because I think as long as there's purpose in it and you're excited to get out of bed every day. That's a win in my books.
Chris Hudson:Yeah, yeah. I mean, what would you say to people that are a bit unsure as to how to define or find their purpose? What, have you got anything that springs to mind though?
Kim James:Yeah, I would probably tackle that in the same way as how I go about with people of understanding what their personal brand is. And it's really about understanding what is your knowledge? What are your experiences? What is your interests? And what are those things that you're just like, I really, really value. In life, obviously I'm very purpose driven in my work. There's a lot of people that have purpose in other avenues and they're like, work pays the bills. I'm purposeful in other avenues, a hundred percent. But I think for your career, it's identifying those key things. And also, We're at a point now where a lot of people contact me about a career change and they say, look, I'm burnt out. I've done 10 years in this job. Oh my God, I have to do another 40, 50. I don't think I could, but we're, we never did been at a better time for people to actually have their transferable skills and level up. At home, at your own time, there's no, Oh, I want to go back to uni to have to study. You could do something online. You could identify transferable skills. Like career change is going to be something we're seeing a lot more of. I don't think we'll see people go. I was a marketing manager for 50 years anymore, but I did this and then I didn't do that. And then I went over here and then that opened up a door here. So yeah, that's probably a roundabout way of answering the question, isn't it?
Chris Hudson:Yeah. I think you covered it. It's an interesting thing, obviously, finding a direction, finding a path. And I think the openness to change that through your life and through your career has never been great. So it feels like you can transition now with pretty, pretty much, anything you can switch into if you want to, if you really put your mind to it, I was talking to a guy yesterday and he was One of Melbourne's big design leaders, right? And he used to be a musician. He's now looking at watch design. He's done different roles. He's been obviously in academia and he's done other things there. And I think you can think of it almost in chapters. And if one thing leads to another, then great. But if you've got a very busy mind and you've got broader ambitions, or if you can't really nail that one thing that you think you need to, you just have to focus on the next step, but maybe that's a sidestep to something else, right?
Kim James:A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. You're spot on with looking at your life and your career and chapters. I do say to people where you start doesn't have to be where you finish up. I think a lot of people look at my career now and think, Oh my God, you were in marketing. I was like, I was in plumbing. Like I was quoting how many toilets would go into a hotel like that, where I am now is not the beginning. And I think there's so much pressure that people think because we've never had more access to viewing your competitors on a screen right in front of your face 24 hours a day. So everyone's thinking, Oh my God, they've got a head. They've got this job. Where am I? Where am I starting? Thank God I didn't have that 10 years ago. Like that would have been a whole different world for me. So with young people now I say, just get in. Start getting experience, start getting runs on the board, not only build your hard skills, but build your soft skills. How do you communicate with people? How do you influence change? How do you run meetings? How do you do your one on ones? How do you send emails? Like get started and then see how those doors can open up for you in the future as well. And yeah, whether or not that's a transferable skill or some of the people in my life, they've studied psychology and now they're electricians. Never been happier.
Chris Hudson:Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. I was so Yeah. I was thinking about this earlier, because my daughter who's 12, she sent me, she sent my wife and an email, right? And I wondered when, and at what point kids are going to learn how to write properly, as in communicate by email, because obviously if you think about that, and then the world of work, and people are doing this, and they're saying salutations this and it's kind regards or as many things whatever it is. And our email was just, when's my Temu order arriving? And cause we got a Halloween costume and white, but there's no guarantee obviously that it's going to turn up. And yeah, it's like what you were saying just really resonated because I think. Every interaction with somebody else, be it spoken or written or otherwise, or how you run a meeting, as you were saying, is your opportunity to present your personal brand and really showcase that and really make it your own. Yeah, if we go into that, maybe at a slightly deeper level, have you got any kind of practical strategies around that? Because I think if you can create a DNA almost for how you work, then that will be something that you can grow over your career, right?
Kim James:100%. And I think that I kind of fumbled into talking about personal branding now, mostly also because I didn't realize I'd built a strong personal brand for years. It's funny. It is actually a version of me talking about things last year. Like, Oh, there's a TikTok I made, I think 18 months ago. And I even say the words personal brand. I didn't even know what that was back then. I was just subconsciously talking about how your personal brand is not only externally what you post, but it's also where you are and where you work. And it's really about being seen as someone that is a problem solver. And I think that's regardless of what role that you're in is where you can bring that and really identifying how you can Take control your career where you want to get into it building really good soft skills So as we said running email running meetings How you communicate via email, how you communicate with one on ones, how you show the value of your work or what you're doing to senior execs and what's in it for them is very important as well. I was very lucky that when we were at Reece, we did a lot of training in like the grad program of understanding DISC profiles. And so I knew where I was, high I, back at the time. And then I could actually, like, we got given these cards that had the different DISC profiles, who they are. How to speak to them. So I would read people and I would go, okay, this person is very to the wire, wants the data, very logical. So if I was ever communicating to them, I knew how to communicate. So I think if you can read people, then you're going to be able to communicate yourself stronger to them. Because whenever you're influencing, changing and building that personal brand of you as that person that it can seem to do it, it's about people bringing people on the journey. So then on the flip side of that, personal branding is building that presence of you online. For many in their career, it's an opportunity through LinkedIn. Definitely something that's a lot smaller here in Australia compared to internationally. I speak a lot with people in Australia that tall poppy syndrome here is rife. But then I speak to people in America and they're just so, part of their culture is naturally to promote yourself. So it's just chalk and cheese, but there's just such a missed conversation that your personal brand starts in where you are and where you're working right now.
Chris Hudson:Yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, knowing where to start. It was like the first post, the first step, the first this or that, like you're saying, it's just doing something right. Otherwise, you're in with the rest or not in with the rest. And then people might think, why are you not part of the conversation or I go through my LinkedIn. If you're listening to the show, I don't know when was the last time you basically went through your LinkedIn and looked at who was on that list and how often have you either heard from those people or communicated with them or showcase something that you've done to them or had a coffee or whatever. I think, it's like the small percent of people that you have interacted with or engaged with there in front of mine, but you think, Oh, there's this huge opportunity. And then you hear that LinkedIn only, Shows only 5 percent of your group see what you post. Some algorithmic things that kind of confuse people, right?
Kim James:Yeah. A hundred percent. And I think the stat is that only 1 weekly as well. So in Australia, that barrier entry, it's low. Like I have met a lot of people through Tik Tok that I catch up in person. I have met a lot of people through LinkedIn that I catch up with in person. And I was actually talking to someone about it yesterday. Today. And we were both saying like the community in Australia is like so small, especially Australia, New Zealand, that, that opportunity to be part of it is absolutely there, but your personal brand is also something that when you need it will shine through. So when we were made redundant, it was told that there would be obviously information going out to the customers. So obviously I'd come from where it was a customer and I was like, well, I just want to own that narrative. I want to be like, look, and this was beginning of tech layoffs. So like, it was very taboo back then. And I was like, you know what? I just want to own the narrative. Did a post on LinkedIn. This is what's happened. I'm going to take some time before I work out my next role. My LinkedIn has never worked stronger. I had people from throughout my entire career coming out of the woodwork. People that I even had an interview with, like when I was really young in my twenties, being like, we still think about you and you are awesome. And if you need any help, you let us know. And I was like, wow. That was my personal brand working. And then when I actually started this business, I had people wanting to see the business and also customers before we'd launch. And I actually spoke about it with someone and he said, you have a really strong personal brand because everyone was talking about you and your abilities. Hootsuite before we even met you, we'd heard about this person that was coming in. So I think a lot of it comes down to not only the hard skills, but is the soft skills. And I think that's something that gets really quite overlooked. Your hard skills can only communicate and can only be as effective as your soft skills. If you are phenomenal at doing your job, the person that's going to get promoted or the person that's going to get the new role in an interview process is the person that can communicate. What they're actually doing the best and that's where that soft skills, I feel like can sometimes be a bit of a missed opportunity if you're somewhere that has to build that with their team, phenomenal, but also what does that look like for yourself and building that on your own accord. So when you're going for the next job interview, the business can go, Oh, wow, you have the hard skills that you were able to communicate that you can solve the problems that we need done. That's the person that gets the job.
Chris Hudson:Yeah, there's only so much you get from a kind of written piece. And obviously there's a lot of studies into verbal and nonverbal communication and how effective those things are. But people are getting a lot even from just silence, right? The non verbalized cues of what you're saying can tell you a lot or trigger a thought around confidence or less confidence. We know that in our subconscious that stuff's happening all the time. So yeah, I think, yeah, you're definitely right. There's plenty of stuff that you can be thinking about. I suppose I want to come at it from the point of view of what feels like it's okay or safe to do. Like a lot of people feel like they're putting their neck out just by going on to the social platform and putting a point of view out there. It's all poppy syndrome and something that feels like it's heartfelt and very much in line with your values that there are different ways to present yourself. And I wondered if you could maybe help us explore some of those.
Kim James:Yeah, for sure. The first place to start is obviously LinkedIn and two parts of it. One, having an up to date LinkedIn profile, that can be something that's so underrated before you even start post up to date profile. Great profile picture, cover photo that explains what you do, have your about, really clear to your background and who you are, any kind of key awards, any kind of projects that you've worked on and just a really up to date where you've worked as well. That's absolutely step one is an up to date profile. The second one of it, if you're not comfortable posting yourself yet, then comment on other people and start to build a community doing that. Commenting on other people's posts is so underrated on LinkedIn. There has been times where I have made comments on others and grown a lot of followers because, and I messaged him like, Hey, how'd you find me? You're in the UK. And they're like, Oh, I loved your comment on blah, blah, blah. I was like, Oh, wow. So you can absolutely start commenting on other people, building that community, building and seeing what they speak about. Then once you kind of like done that, then you can start to curate. Content. So it might've been, this is a recent campaign that's gone on your insights into something in the industry, new platform updates. A lot of people start there. Like if you're not sure to curate create your own, curate it, curate what's going on in the industry. And then the big step is your own opinions. That is a hard one. Like it's scary to kind of get to, but LinkedIn is platform of networking. It is like an online networking event. So if you aren't putting the time into communicating and connecting with others on their posts. They're not going to find you to then come to your posts. So you have to put just as much effort in. And I think I, you know, used to post back in the day and the people that would engage with it was my direct peers that I would work with, but it wasn't until I started to build a bigger network. And then when you go to events, so I was in a network event two weeks ago. Those people, we knew each other. We were like, Hey, I know you, I met you online. And it was just this like surreal feeling. Cause sometimes you go to networking events and you think, Oh my God, how does everyone here know each other? And like, what am I missing out on? Is there like something else I don't go to? No, it's just because. They've met online and then they go, Oh, that's you. So I had that like experience last week. And honestly, that definitely came from putting yourself out there, but it doesn't have to be starting with your own opinions. It can be starting with commenting, curating, and then your own opinions.
Chris Hudson:Yeah. Yeah. That's good. So you can kind of go to the different levels depending on how far you feel comfortable, in doing that. That's really cool. I mean, I think that there's a lot of trial and error, it feels like, and the numbers that you get back can also be really confronting. If you feel like you've spent hours right on this post, and this is how I've been in this boat, you've probably been in this boat a thousand times, but you're curating and crafting this like tightly worded post. You think, Oh, this is amazing. and then it goes out and then the numbers come back and you think, Oh, No, is the numbers watching things sensible or do you try and stay away from that?
Kim James:Oh, I don't pay attention to the numbers until like 30 days in, especially like link is now serving a little bit more older content. But yeah, the numbers is what's going to trick you up. Cause realistically you need to do something for a minimum of 60 days posting and just getting it out there because people need to see more of the feed. The algorithm needs to know that you're turning up a lot more frequently. And then I only look at my numbers on a 30 day thing. And I'll identify what conversation the thing about LinkedIn is. It's like Instagram back in the 2010s, where if you like other people's things, other people can see what you like. So when I do posts about this is what's happening in the industry or me, and I did this, I'll get heaps of likes and I'll get comments if I do things like. These are the reasons that your content is not authentic because it's outsourced with your agency and this is how to bring it back in house. People don't want to like that because that's a little bit controversial. They probably have an agency. But that's why I have an email, a LinkedIn newsletter because with the newsletter, I can actually see how many people read my article. So I get over about 110 to 120 article reads every week of my newsletter. I'll only get 20 likes. The likes doesn't matter. It's more about who's reading it and so that's where LinkedIn themselves at South by Southwest last week, yeah last week, week before, they actually had said focus on impressions because people silently consume. They're not necessarily publicly liking because back like when Instagram first launched and all these like celebrities got called out because they were liking and commenting on these other celebrities posts and you're thinking oh my god. That's scandalous. That's still linked in now. If you like something and then your boss can see it and it will come up in their feed and go, Oh, this person likes it. So I definitely wouldn't get caught up in that. Where you can also go is yes, the impressions. And then if you were then starting to see people viewing your profile in that avenue and then connecting with them, DMs instead. Yeah. You've got to focus on the private. So LinkedIn. Can feel very difficult at the beginning because you're not going to get the level of engagement that you would on TikTok and Instagram. Like you're not going to get that dopamine hit, but. over time. Like I'd probably say I only started to take LinkedIn seriously about eight weeks ago. And now I would get double the engagement of what I used to, or I now get people kind of contact me or have introductory sales calls. And they're like, I've been binge watched your content. And I'm like, I didn't even know because someone today commented and they were like, I love all your content. It's top notch. I was like, wouldn't know. Don't like it. So yeah, you never know who's watching to be honest.
Chris Hudson:Yeah, that's it. You got to be comfortable with content enough to be able to put it out there, knowing that you never know who's watching that feels like it's stating the obvious, but, uh, yeah, I suppose the big question for me now around content is around maybe the quality and maybe around the authenticity of it a little bit because AI Is kind of jet propelling any writer and maker or creator or anyone that felt a little less confident now into the public domain with all these content creation tools. And it feels like there's just a swarm of new stuff. Sometimes you can tell whether it's generated by AI or not, but in other cases, you just want to kind of, if there's just more and more and more and more and more, then. Is that going to be too much at any point? And some people are going straight into that with two feet and other people are thinking, Oh, that's not for me. What do, where do you sit on that?
Kim James:Yeah. I always say that AI is going to actually do content creation of rapid speed and time. Like when it comes to being authentic online, that becomes the. Either for you personally, you are speaking from your stories, your experiences, what you're doing. Don't look at the big leads and then take their opinions and their stories. It's not yours. You have to speak from authentically to you, especially if it's anything in a B2B space, you might be business to business, but people buy from people. When you're a brand and you're building that community, that authenticity is going to come from strongly understanding who your customer is and how your brand can be part of their community and in with it. Like you're part of their lifestyle and it feels natural to them. That comes from having a very strong audience piece where AI is absolutely phenomenal. I use it every single day is that it will help you generate that content at speed and volume. So from a LinkedIn perspective, I'm a bit of a waffler and I'm really good with video. Written is not anywhere near my strong suit. I'm a very much waffler when it comes to writing. I will actually work. I will write my own piece, give it to LinkedIn and go. How can this be shorter? How can this be tighter? And I actually have trained it on certain of writing techniques. So like the problem agitation solution, or there's like another one that I use usually that to help formulate it into the format that's quick, easy to read. And people get something out of it. That's easy because that's still my authentic idea. It still came from me. It's still my experience, but I'm just getting the help and writing it better. Or if you're doing anything of like ads, you need to give multiple forms of creative. So you use AI for that. Where. I think people get it wrong is there's a lot of tools now that are like, don't worry about an idea. He's 30 just by 30 done for you. Content ideas, but you end up sounding the exact same and we're at a point now where nothing worthwhile is a quick fix. there's nothing in life that is a quick fix. I say to people, one workout in the gym doesn't make you fit onehealthy salad is not going to hit your weight loss target. One piece of content is not going to blow you up. Maybe teach talk in 2020, but TikTok in 2020, those people have that big following. They're struggling now because there is more people out there now that are stronger better quality content, adapting to where it's going. Like you can't stay stagnant. It's probably why I love working in social because you have to be on the pulse 24 seven and where it's changing and evolving, but what will always stay true is don't look at trends. If you don't have those foundations set, don't look at AI. If you don't know what your brand story is because you'll just get lost in the mass.
Chris Hudson:Yeah. It's interesting. I think that's maybe a concern for people is that if it's moving at such speed and how do people stand a chance in, in keeping up with it? Right. you're spending your days and your weeks doing this full time. A lot of people in intrapreneurs roles are just doing their day jobs, right? They don't feel like LinkedIn is the thing that they have to obsess over every day and every minute. So how do you recommend that people manage it and still remain relevant?
Kim James:I mean, it's like anything that you just want to dedicate a certain amount of time to it on a regular day. So when I started growing on tips up last year, a lot of my clients were government, everyone was like, we need to be on TikTok. Everyone says TikTok. I had 10 years in Instagram, Facebook, YouTube. I'd never been TikTok, but I strongly believe cannot consult on something if I haven't done it myself. So I was like, all right, I got to get on TikTok. I force myself every single morning or every lunchtime. You will be posting lucky. I did work from home, but I could have done it if I was in the office anyway. And I set a habit, like nothing, you're not going to get good at anything until you sit in a routine and build that consistency where it's just part of your day. So I think there's absolutely that realistically with LinkedIn, you don't have to post. Five times a week. You don't have to do video content. I think with LinkedIn, the barrier to entry is the lowest because you can use images. You've written posts themselves go off phenomenally. You might have a really clear understanding of a few content pillars. So what you're known about, what you know about, what you like to talk about, and you might have those broken up into buckets. And then you start to get that content out from there. Set yourself a target. Do you want to do three posts a week? And you could either Bulk do them one evening or on a weekend or set a period of time before you start your work day to engage with others and get one post out here and there. But LinkedIn is definitely the easiest to get onto there. Like Tik Tok, you need to be posting one to three times a day to build momentum. So I say to people like. Unless you're ready for that with video. Yeah, maybe go to linkedin.
Chris Hudson:It's a big step. Yes. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. I think I want to just sort of maybe walk back to the broader point here, which is around why you would need to do this. And personal brand is something that we're talking about, obviously, at the start of the conversation, but a lot of people would still think that within a comfortable corporate job somewhere within government, whatever. I don't need to be on LinkedIn or TikTok because they've got a job and they just need to show up and do the meetings and do that, do the things. So I thought, I know the answer myself, but I'd love to hear it from your point of view. Why do you think people need to do all of this external facing personal brand building in those cases.
Kim James:First of all, future proof your career. I didn't think I was going to get made redundant. I went and got the dream role in the dream company. And I was like, look at me here. I turned up on a Wednesday morning. There was an email, 30 percent of the company gone. Here is your meeting. Got a meeting. This is what you get. Computer turns off, you don't exist the day before I was doing my job. You can't predict that if you put your career into the hands of someone else, there will be a monetary and business decision that has to be made. We saw people at Google with 25 years experience being made redundant. So for me, any of these big pieces is future proofing your career and this trajectory where it's in your hands. So there's absolutely the part of that. And that comes down to up to date resume, up to date LinkedIn profile, ready to go when someone comes for it. The other thing is. I know people now who are getting jobs because of their personal brand, who are putting themselves out there on LinkedIn and going, here is me. I went to this particular event. I'm talking about it. They're getting paid extra opportunities. They're getting a bit of side money, bit of side hustle. And so when those roles that or the companies people want to work out, they're checking your LinkedIn. They're looking at it. And then the third thing is the next generation know the power of LinkedIn. So they are actually talking about personal branding on LinkedIn to university students right now. Like the next generation, I think right now we're in like the 25 to 35. They're like, I don't think I really need it. Like I'm pretty happy. I'm always like, it's not AI that's going to replace your job. It's the young person that can use AI to do the job 10 times faster that will replace the job. So yeah, that's where I'm very much like I've been in situations where. Your career can change and it's not because of your control and you'll always be happy at that time that you had that personal brand and that opportunity to step into a new role. And yeah, I've seen what that's made for people, whether or not that is the new roles that they want, promotions that they want, going to events, asked to be on panels, books, podcasts, the galore, that those opportunities only happen when your opinions are online.
Chris Hudson:Yeah, I think so. You only open up those opportunities if you do represent a point of view or you put yourself out there in some way, because otherwise people wouldn't know. And I think from a, the job description, resume type level, but even people just writing where they worked and what their title was doesn't say very much about what they've achieved or what they stand for or they represent. I think they're, like you say, it's softer measures, right? So how do you get a sense of who somebody is? Truly, if that isn't represented online, I can't believe I'm saying that because like my 20 year old self would have had no idea. Right. But I'm thinking actually, it can say lots of people like we were doing this podcast, a few hundred people might see this or however many, but they don't have to meet us to know what we're all about because we've had this chat, it's that kind of thing.
Kim James:A hundred percent, like last year when I was building my personal brand, I think I did at least four or five podcasts last year. I was in Business Insider, absolutely in the Daily Mail twice. I have been doing paid content, yeah, I didn't mean to, just went viral on TikTok having opinions and then ended off in the Daily Mail. They do this thing where they message you being like, Hey, we want to write this article about you and then you ignore them and they write it anyway.
Chris Hudson:Okay. So is that, are you exposing them again now? Are we going to get a daily mail, are we going to get a daily mail call?
Kim James:Would you imagine? Yeah. And it opened up.
Chris Hudson:You were saying before the show, like, what's the most controversial thing I could say on the company road podcast? What's going to get the clicks?
Kim James:What's going to get the clicks, open up that door. Yeah, no, honestly, I don't either care for any of that media. I got contacted, I think it was like three weeks ago or something on one. And I was like, no, I'm not interested. They spin your words. I'm like, it's not quality journalism. I was Business insider. That was good. And that was a piece about, focus on you and your career in your twenties instead of rushing to become a people manager, because I felt like in my twenties, I was rushing everyone wanted to be this marketing manager. It was this thing. And we were all rushing as fast as possible to get there. But then you get there and you're like 26 and you're like, I don't even know who I am. Why am I developing other people? Like, why am I doing people development when I know right now should be building my skillset. And then I had a lot of people reach out with their career over the last year. And a lot of people, it was actually, they became a people manager too early. And then now they were struggling to get another job because their hard skills were impacted because they were managing teams instead of doing the doing. They're like, I can't get a job now. Yeah. So by the time I hit 30, I was like, God, we're working for a long time. I don't want to do people management. In my twenties, that's not what I would do. So yeah, I just said, your twenties is for your development, not developing others. And unfortunately it went very viral.
Chris Hudson:Oh, yeah. All right. Well, that's the way to get, I mean, that I think standing for something that's a little bit less known or less popular can obviously get some attention if you've got a point of view. So don't be afraid to share it. There'll be people that agree. There'll be people that disagree and that's okay. Right.
Kim James:Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent and I think where I work with people with their personal brand is actually for their careers and it's opening in those opportunities. My clients have been lawyers, financial educators, business owners, founders, people that have got a story to tell and that they want to be known in the industry. They want to have that influence and they want that authority. They're looking at usually a lot of people that are at speaking gigs, getting books, being on podcasts and they're going, well, hang on, why am I doing that? And the difference is that their identity was in their business, not who they were as a person and we're seeing that absolute shift, the future of influencers and influencer marketing will be personal branding and it will be having more people speaking about realistic conversations in their field and in the industry. And yeah, I'm excited about that. I think it's something that is very prevalent internationally. Australia, like most things, we kind of take a little bit of time to get there. tall poppy syndrome is absolutely rife, but I say to people like my client who's an employment lawyer and TikTok, she's like the only one in Australia. She's absolutely gone off. She's been in PR, she's been interviewed, she's gotten new clients, opened up new like product lines through being on TikTok. I don't know any other employment lawyers on TikTok in Australia.
Chris Hudson:Yeah, cool. So jump in. Jump in. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of really great stuff in what you've shared so far. And I think, from people that are listening to the show, cause they're probably thinking about where they sit in relation to that personal brand and how much they're doing or there's definitely a guilt factor to seeing a lot, but not. Necessarily jumping in and doing it what are some of the things that can either put your guilt to one side or help people feel less guilty and just get started?
Kim James:Honestly, it's so funny. So two parts into it. I listened to a podcast last week and they were talking about how not taking action is self sabotage because when you don't take action, you actually control the outcome. So the biggest problem of doing something, putting yourself out there is the uncertainty. Who's going to see it? How are they going to react? Am I going to get cancelled? Is anyone going to love me? Will I get any views? That uncertainty, the only way to control that is to be certain in the outcome. The only way to be certain in the outcome is to self sabotage and not take any action. So no action is actually self sabotage. I love that piece of it as well. The second part of it is that I know that I write personal brand strategies with people for a living, but I say to a lot of people that actually just start, I'm like, don't, I saw someone and it was like, Spend week one reviewing all of your competitors, spend week two writing your strategy and then week three filming. I said absolutely not because the biggest hurdle. is starting is having that go, putting yourself in front of the camera, writing, whatever that is. If you can build something into part of your day, you will stick to it. So for example, I am now that it's getting into a lot more, I wanted to go for a walk for a minimum of 40 minutes every single morning. And that first probably week or two, I was like, Oh God, I'd rather just get into my day. I'm like, you are going for your work walk. That walk is the best part of my day now. Like I live for that morning walk with my podcast. I could not imagine my day without it. So when it comes to that initial part, it's actually breaking up. Don't just go, okay, I'm going to post six times a week. I'm going to have a strategy. I'm going to do all this video editing. Start with one. And then start again the next day and have a goal that you set that consistency and you'd be surprised how much then you build that momentum over time. You get excited by it and you like it and then someone will come and go, this is really great. You're like, Oh my God, I'm going to keep going. But it's like anything in life. If you set it as too big to do, your brain will not want to do it again. Now that's too big. That's too much of a hurdle to get over. So yeah, as much as I write strategies with people, I say to them, just start, honestly, post a video. Give it a go because once you get over that hurdle of yourself, that's the key thing. And you'd be surprised. I actually do say to people that doing content creation and putting yourself online, whether that's in written or in video actually significantly increases your ability to do your job because you will be able to communicate better. When you are doing short form, whether written or video, you have to get your point across very succinctly without the ramble, without the fluff, and that will actually help you do it better. Also, it will help you take risks. So many people have said to me, obviously, that I work with big corporate. How'd you, you know, you're so brave. How'd you take the risk? I said, put yourself out on TikTok and you will really see that like, Life is not that scary. I think that was probably the scariest thing that I've done. And ever since then, I'm like, Oh, a risk is a risk. Like if I can do that, this'll be fine.
Chris Hudson:Yeah. And as we know, like we see a lot of scary things out on social media and we don't have to copy that or we don't have to put ourselves out there to that extent. we're not going to be that controversial in some cases. So yeah, hopefully whatever you think and what I think and you think could be sensible enough it's within your comfort zone is the point.
Kim James:Yeah, a hundred percent. And honestly, look, I've gone viral multiple times and it is very overwhelming when it happens the first time you get definitely get very stressed about it. And then you go viral sometimes and you just attract the absolute scum of the earth. Just don't post about anything to do with Taylor Swift and you'll avoid that one. But honestly, all
Chris Hudson:the presidential election in the U S just stay away
Kim James:like that. Yeah, just stay away from it. But it's funny because I did a lot of top of funnel content last year and I was easily to get virality and to get followers from it. But now I actually do a lot middle of the funnel and I actually do a lot more longer form. Lot more of what I'm doing a lot more behind the scenes. I love playing in that little space. And I'm like, I don't need the whole piece of the world. I just want to create my little space and my little nest. And I have that. And I talk about burnout. I talk about careers. I talk about personal branding on like. That's my other side and I get people then do message me and how they're going. And so going viral is not going to change your life. There is a lot of people that will go viral and nothing will happen the next day. I went viral multiple times and I didn't become a millionaire out of it. It didn't open up significant opportunities. It grew following and it grew a community. But I had to continue to keep posting. So going viral. Yeah, I don't know. I think we've kind of built it up to be this thing that's the facade, but realistically a more just genuine, really engaged community that you feel like you're having conversations with is absolutely key. So that's what I focus more on. If I go viral, it's a byproduct of, wow, like hit something that people really relate into, but it's not something that I go for. And I think that with content you can tell if someone's trying to go viral.
Chris Hudson:Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, there's a lot of staging going on. You can see through it, usually. sometimes you just gotta say, okay, it's stage, and it's really quite good. I really enjoyed that. But, doesn't always happen. Doesn't always happen. Viral definitions, have they changed over the years?
Kim James:I would say that it's more that they're, the expectation of viral has changed. So I remember years ago, Did this campaign with some like football stars and we got like a hundred thousand video views and that was the equivalent of a million. Now like a hundred thousand then was like, whoa. And whereas now, a viral video is in the millions. You would never have got millions back then. But I think also throughout time we've kind of got decentralized to how many people. We're seeing something like right now a bad video is 400 people. Could you talk to 400 people? 400 people saw your video. Like I think that's still phenomenal. Like if you hit a hundred thousand video views, that's the MCG. Hey, so I work with some clients and I just like take them back down. I'm like, Oh, we're only getting a thousand views. I'm like a thousand people that are engaged, that actually like your content, that could be a potential buyer is much better than a million that are never going to buy from you.
Chris Hudson:I mean that's all super useful. Is there anything that kind of jumps out as being like a piece of advice that has really either helped you or that you often say to your clients? So, there's a place to start in terms of assessing where you're at.
Kim James:In terms of your personal
Chris Hudson:presence. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kim James:Yeah, I think from a personal branding perspective for individuals, it's really identifying what platforms that you could start on, how you could be consistent with it and yeah, your knowledge, your skills and your interests and your knowledge, skills, interest. I feel like I'm missing a fourth one now. That's all right. It will come to me another time. That's that'll basically do it. Yeah. That is basically what we'll set for what you want to speak about. And as I said, start off with that engaging with others. Curating a bit of content. And when you're ready for it, go into the opinion piece. And it can be something that builds over time. Personal brands is not something you do of a one off. Like I have been working with clients in a monthly piece. Now I'm working with clients more on either a four, six or a nine month, because this is a long game. I didn't go viral and like start to even find what I want to talk about for eight months. So, There's an element of that you're going to get disheartened if it doesn't happen right away, but like, that's the normality. I think we've kind of lost that. You're going to build this personal brand. Everyone's going to come and it's going to happen instantly. But realistically, if you ask anyone to be like, I've been posting for three years, so it is a long game as well. But yeah, don't underestimate the power of that personal brand internally where you are working now as well. And a lot of that will also come from building those soft skills to communicate your hard skills.
Chris Hudson:Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Really good advice. Thank you so much, Kim, for coming onto the show. And, uh, yeah, we, we packed a lot in. So I really appreciate you coming on to chat and yeah, if people want to get in touch, they've got a question or I just want to say, hi, I'll follow you. We'll see what that. See what the thing on TikTok was all about where do they find you?
Kim James:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you can find me on LinkedIn, Kim Elizabeth James. That's just my middle name. Actually. It's not that I go by that as two first names. It's just that from an SEO perspective, you'll always find me if there's all three names. So yeah, I'm on LinkedIn there and on TikTok and Instagram is the career girl diaries, which is, yeah, basically where I just started building a bit of navigating your career in a way. Being someone that's career driven, building a personal brand. And I say to people, know your worth and own, own your path. So yeah, that's where you can find me if you've got any questions.
Chris Hudson:Perfect. Absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank you, Kim.
Kim James:Appreciate it.
Chris Hudson:All right.