E116: 48 years at The AFRO

Rebecca Snyder sits down with the remarkable Denise Dorsey, who recently retired after an incredible 48-year career at The Afro. From her start in the advertising department in 1976 to her pivotal role as production manager, Denise reflects on how the paper—and the Black press—has evolved over the decades. She shares insights on shifting from wax and teletype to digital media, the vital legacy of print in a tech-driven world, and what it meant to grow in a mission-focused newsroom. A powerful conversation about history, resilience, and Black excellence.

Chapters

• 0:00 Joining The Afro in 1976
• 5:26 The Evolution of Print
• 13:31 Women at the Helm – The Power of Female Leadership
• 25:26 Serving the Black Community Through Journalism
• 29:28 Life After 48 Years at The AFRO

Transcript

0:01

Welcome. I am excited to have in the studio today, Denise Dorsey, who is kind of a unicorn. She has retired just maybe two weeks ago as the production manager at the Afro and has spent 48 years at the Afro, is, you know, that's, that's super unusual. So Denise, welcome so much to the program. It's glad I'm glad to have you. Thank you so much for inviting me. It's quite an honor to be here. Well, and so we were talking about how it feels to be retired after 48 years and you're kind of assessing and so forth. But I feel like you're also having an opportunity to kind of look back on your time at the Afro. So tell us a little bit about what the Afro is like now and what you were doing. And then we'll go in the way back machine back 48 years, which was mid 70s, early 70s. 1976, yes, when I started there, yes. so let's talk a little bit about what the Afro is now and then we'll think about 1976. Okay, so what do mean as far as what it is now? Where it's going? I think that and what you were doing at the end of your career, because the production manager is that linchpin role for sure. Yes, yes. Well, my responsibility was more so on the print side of the media. We're a media company now. We don't go buy newspaper anymore because we have so much social media and we're doing a lot of digital stuff. So we say Afro media company. But I was responsible for the print side of the Afro media company. So my responsibility was making sure that the pages were done each week, that they got to the printer. Any ads that came through, had to make sure that ads were placed where they were supposed to be placed, were processed. If ads had to be created by us, nowadays, of course, most people can send stuff in because so many people can use computers and do their own thing. We don't have as much material coming to us that needs to be laid out on our end. But if that happened, it was our responsibility to make sure this ad was laid out and sent back to the client for proofs. So that was basically, and any information, and that was like the liaison between the printer, the actual printer and the newspaper. So if they had any issues, they would always come to me and I would try to figure them out or send them to the person that they needed to talk to. So that was my basic role and act towards the end. Yeah. well, and I feel like that's such a linchpin role. You're seeing sort of it all come together and happen. And, you know, the print publication is, I think, really an anchor for the Afro, although you're doing, you know, the Afro is continuing to grow. You've got an amazing Facebook following and you do a lot of the chicken box on Facebook Live, which I think is always really fun. And the events, I the high tea is always a highlight of the spring. and other terrific things. Well, Reverend Draper always says, who is our publisher, CEO and publisher, she always says that paper is the legacy. So she will always have a print side, even though the paper is moving on towards other things. And we know print is not the big thing. You know, that's not the future. We know what the future is. What she just feels because that's where the paper began, or where this company began was with the paper, that it will always be a legacy that she will always hold on to. So I always liked that part that she has. this love for the print side still, when so many people are saying, let's get away from the print and just do digital. I like the Afro has always really been committed to its legacy and to the archives. mean, I the groundbreaking for the new building was just a couple of weeks ago. So tell me a little bit about sort of that sense of history and sort of working on a publication that was founded, I think you're at 132 years. I mean, just what does, what did it mean to you to work on such a on a publication that has such meaning for the Black community. It was always important to me. I've said this so many times that I was always so proud to say that I worked for a Black-owned company that was Black-operated. So that was always something that was dear to my heart. And it was just, you know, the environment. You were working around people who knew what you were doing. What we all were doing was important and how what we put out was important because of the information that was going out to other people, but also how it made us look. that we knew what we were doing and what we were doing was important, not only to our audience, but to us as well. So it's always been, I've always had a lot of pride in working for the Afro. And I've said this many times that I loved working there. Obviously I wouldn't have stayed as long as I did if I didn't love working there. Well, so now did you start in the production department when you were, you know, just a shy young girl of five because, you know, 48 years is a long time. What did you come in in 1976? What were you trying to do at the Afro? When I first came in, I worked in the advertising department. So my main job then was basically, that was back in the days, of course, we didn't have computers yet. So everything was like manual. So my job was basically to like, if we had an ad that came in, we would have to decide how the ad was going to be laid out, decide the size of the fonts and the type. And then we would send this information to what we call teletype at the time. they would type out this information and send it back to us and then we would actually put the ad together. So that was basically my job is doing, you know, sending this explanation to Teletype, then getting it back, creating the ad and then sending the ad on to where it needed to go after that. So now that sounds like a really text heavy process like and and my introduction into newspapers was a little bit later when we were pasting up, you know, like with those little wax. So were you at the wax part or or the technology before? OK, so. the wax part. Yes, technology was in teletype. They did all the actual typing out of the, whatever we sent them, they would do the actual typing and then they would send it back to us. And then we would have to paste it, you know, go through the waxer and paste it up, make an ad and then send it to engraving, which was a department back then that we, you know, has been eliminated long ago. And you know, actually, I'm just taking a pause in my own head to remind myself that in 1976, your choice was basically the Courier font on a typewriter, you know, that you really like the idea of sending out to a teletype so that it could look different than just what was on your typewriter. I think we're so we're so spoiled right now with all the choices. You're like, we'll just put it in Canva or do whatever. right. But every ad was a craft project because those wax machines and for those of you who weren't who didn't know it basically just was like a little Rolling cylinder that coated something in wax and just sort of slipped it through and then you put it on a piece of paper And that's where it was staying what I was saying. Yep. So now, you always want to do, so what attracted you to, were you on the advertising side and that's what you were trying to achieve or were you just hired at the Afro and they put you in the advertising department? they put me there because my degree was in advertising design. So when I came there, that's what they started me in advertising department. So that's kind of how I was lucky enough to do something that I actually went to school for. So yes, yeah, yeah. were you, did you grow up in Baltimore, this area or? in DC, okay. So then you've always been on the DC side of the Afro and as it merges and change, then you took over for both. Okay. Well, what was it like in those days? I mean, were you in, I'm assuming you were in the DC office, I'm thinking. was in the Baltimore. I always worked in the Baltimore office. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. the road there. what was, tell me what it was like. What did it feel like to be in the office? Who was there? What was the energy like? God, it was great energy because we had such a large crew because you had people that were up in the front that were doing classifieds. It was like we had about three or four people that were in the front that were doing classifieds. Then towards the back of the office, we had like the other desk that the salespeople that were doing display ads would sit. And then the switchboard operator, because we actually had a switchboard then in this building, would sit up towards the front. of course, because that's where people were coming in. And she was also receptionist as well as switchboard operator. So it was always a lot of energy, always people talking, phones ringing, customers coming in. And we just all got along well. That's one thing I've another thing I love about the Afro is always been a sense of family. We always got like any family, there was always some people that didn't like each other. That's always the case. But for the most part, it just it was just a nice warm. welcoming environment. Yeah. And I'm just thinking, you know, in 1976 in Baltimore, you know, you're just after, I was talking to Denise Roller Barnes on the Informer the other day, and she was telling me that how her father always talked about the 68 riots as the rebellion, the uprising. And so. But Baltimore had its own 68 riots. so in that aftermath, mean, we're only talking five, six years later, what was the tenor of the city like? did it feel like, I mean, that's the era of, there's more Black Pride movements going on. How did that feed into what the AFRA was doing at that time? You know, it's hard to say it because I don't really remember. But I think I don't remember because we weren't doing anything different than we had been doing before. know, we were still... Black pride and Black news was still always the forefront. So we really were just reporting on stuff that, you know, we had always been reporting on. So I don't really remember there being like a huge difference. I'm sure if you talk to some of the reporters, they probably would say differently, but for me, I never really noticed a huge difference. love that it's so infused into the culture of the publication that, of course, you're like, well, this is what we always do. You know, we're always reporting on the community and lifting up. That's I think that's such a great piece. And so as you as you kind of head out into the from the 70s into the 80s and 90s, were there things that change? Were there, you know, because you had to deal with a lot of new technology because we don't use wax anymore. So how is that jump to computers? mean, like, especially as graphic, essentially a graphic designer, kind of know all the principles, but how do you translate that to the computer world? Yeah, it was kind of tough in the beginning for me and not so much because of the technology itself, but because of what it meant as far as the staff. Because, you know, a lot of jobs started getting eliminated because of course their function wasn't useful, you know, we wasn't there anymore. So I was kind of, I have to admit that I was kind of reluctant in the beginning about the computer. But of course, you know, it was what I had to do. Um, so I did it and I learned to love it and I would not want to go back to the way things were, you know, back then. Um, but it was a process for me. It really was a process for me, um, learning. And it started out that I didn't start out on the computer. When we first started using computers on a regular basis, I didn't, I wasn't using it. So what I would do, there would be like two or three people that would work in the teletype. We weren't doing teletype anymore then because everybody was using the computer, but they basically would like print out the paper. And then our job was basically just to piece it. They would like print it out in three parts and we would paste it on the board that we would actually send to the printer. So it was a while before I actually started like actually manually actually using the computer. But once I started and of course I learned and luckily I had people that were very welcoming and teaching and wanting me to learn and helping me to learn. It just made it so much easier. And then, you just got used to it and you just learned to love it. And printing technology changed too. mean, I do remember like you had the boards and you would take it down to the printer and they would, it felt like they'd photocopy it onto a printing plate. I'm sure it's a much more technical process. And then it would be on the presses. But, you I think also when I think of the ability of someone to be at a job for 48 years, it's a give and take. You wanted to stay, but it sounds like the Afro and leadership at the Afro. really committed to having you bring your talents and learn this new, like this, to climb that really big hill of learning a completely new technology. talk to me a little bit about sort of the leadership of the Afro and how they, I know it's always been family run, but how does that kind of translate out? Like, what is that? Can you talk a little bit about the different leaders that you've had at the Afro over that 48 year time? God, yes. Well, when I first went there, John Murphy Third, as we called him, John Third, was the publisher at the time. And I loved working under John Third. He was just a very, he was one of those publishers that kind of like, he had a staff, he knew he could trust what they did. He kind of let them do their thing. After that, John Oliver came on. Mm-hmm. was more like, he was the one that really was like, started getting into technology. In fact, the Afro had a webpage before any other black newspaper had a webpage. So he really was into the technology. And that's when we really started moving from the old to the new. And now that Reverend Draper is the publisher, she is just really into technology. And she really is the one that is pushing us, you know, to keep going forward and venturing out to do it. new things. so she's very tech savvy. So that's really, think the one who has really, she's the one who has really made the Afro move into the 21st century. I'll say it like that. Because of her love of all things technology. And she knows that, you know, that's what we need to do to keep going to stay ahead, to stay ahead is that we have to get out here and be aware of all these things that are happening, AI and all these things that are coming up. We need to be aware because they're gonna help us to continue to grow. And it strikes me that one of the things that I think is so special about the Afro is that you're so mission centered, like you're very clear eyed about what you want to do and what you want to accomplish and that you don't get caught up in like a format issue. Like you can interpret the mission in a lot of different ways. Like I do feel like when I talk to Lenora about maybe some of the community events that you do or what those are just as as much a part of the Afro's mission and goal as reporting the news, because it's partly that you're uplifting the community. So tell me a little bit about how that kind of translates, because you've probably been working on so many printed pieces for all those aspects. You've done the special editions, you've done the event pieces. What kind of stands out in your mind as some of the things you've really enjoyed working on. Some of the publications, well, back in the late 80s, we had a publication called Dawn Magazine, which was a nationwide publication. So I was like the production coordinator for that. So I always enjoyed working on Dawn Magazine. And more so probably in recent, when we had character education, which was a supplement that we had that went out to the aerial schools. Mmm. I enjoyed working on that. And then probably recently, just the special editions, the ones that have been like Black history, I'm a history buff anyway. So I love working with anything that brings history to life. So any of the special editions, there's just been so many things. It's hard to pick, you know, so many editions because I worked on political pieces that we've done for, you know, campaign for people that were running for campaigns. We've done... Stuff for the city, for Baltimore City, we've done special things for them. So we've just done a lot of different things over the years. Now, do you ever get involved in the, because I feel like the Afro has some books that you've published as well. Have you gotten into those areas? Or, because I feel like not yet. about the one that, this is our war. I was, yes, so that was, think Reverend Draper has worked on that, but I seem to remember you have, maybe it's a special edition of Notable Black Marylanders that has come up. But maybe that was a special supplement and not a book. Okay, you're thinking about who's who? That's coming up? That's coming up, yes. Who's who's? Yes. That's okay. No, I think that's coming up. I'm not sure when, but I think that's coming up. No, I did not work on that at all. Okay, well and so that is, you've, much as you were past the baton to do this production work, you know, I'm sure you've trained your replacement. How was the effort getting along without you? Well, so far it seems like it's doing well. I haven't heard any complaints. They seem to like the way that the we're outsourcing the paper now. So they seem to enjoy the like the company that is laying out the paper. Of course, it's not the way we would do it, but you know, doesn't mean things are supposed to stay the same. They're supposed to grow. They're supposed to be different. So what I from what I have heard or seen, they seem to be very happy with where they are now. Yeah. And and as you look at the arc of change, I mean, when you think about what the Black community was like in 1976 versus what it's like here in 2025, what are, and being a historian, a history buff, sort of talk to me about some of the changes that you think are, have happened and what they mean for publications like the Afro. I think, well, I think of course back in the 70s or back even before the 70s, the black press was so important because our news wasn't anywhere else. We weren't in the sun, we weren't in the times, we weren't anywhere. So the effort was really important and get news out there about what was going on in the black community or not just in the community, but in the world, in the nation. And of course, as we went... further into the 80s, 90s, it wasn't so much because we were starting to get more into mainstream. So, you know, I think people were kind of, I won't say moving away because we've always had loyal subscribers and loyal people who have always been loyal to Daphro. But I think it kind of maybe filtered away so much from the black press because they were getting information from other sources. You know, we were in main news more and we were on TV more and so on and so, but I think now... You're going to see folks coming back to the press and back to Black related things because I think they know that we need to be more unified and we need to be more aware of what's going on. So I think you're going to see a resurgence in people coming back to the Black press. At least I hope so, but that's what I think. I think that's where we're headed. Well, and I think also having a trusted news source to say, this is the, think the media landscape is so fractured. You know, you can really, you can sit in your bubble and be like, okay, I'm just only going to hear these voices. And there's, there's a detriment to that because you're not hearing other things, but it also, if you're not choosing wisely, you can be fed information that just is not accurate. And so. true. And that is such a concern these days because there are so many, like you said, so many much new sources out there that you know are not giving you the true story. They don't want you to know the true story. They want you to know what they think you should hear. So it's so important to have voices saying, let's look at the facts. Let's fact check. Let's not just put something out there without knowing that we're. what we're putting out there is what should be out there and it is truthful. So you're right. You gotta be careful. You really do. Yeah. You do, you do. And so I think there's just a really strong place in the world for organizations that kind of know what they stand for, are committed to accurate reporting, and want to highlight those stories of underserved and underrepresented people, which, you know, I do feel like black stories are still not, you know, they're not at the, it's better, but it's not where it should be. And so I think there's. I agree with you, yes. And I think that's why you will always need the Afro and Black press because it may never be where it should be, you know, especially in the atmosphere we're in now. We know it's like, you know, we really have to stay on top of things because we can easily get dragged down and pushed out if we don't stay aware, aware, Yeah. so I'm also thinking I was it strikes me I was talking to someone about their book about a landmark lawsuit in 1978. And we were talking about the role of women in journalism. And I think the Afro has been has always been a very like woman powered. organization, even back to the founding, believe, John Murphy actually borrowed the money for the Afro from his wife, if I'm not mistaken. So I just think that that has carried through all the way. But, you know, the world has not necessarily done that. So when you were first starting out, what did it feel like to come to a like, was it as woman focused when you started and What's kind of the role of the female Murphys? Yes, it was, it still was very much women oriented because a lot of the Murphy daughters were still working then because Ida Peters was like doing clean block and, and, so it was still very, um, Betty Moss was still writing. So we still had the actual Murphy daughters that were still there very much involved. Daughters of, not the founders of, of the, the founder's son, Carl Murphy. Yeah, they were his daughters. So they were still very active, still working, writing, doing their thing. So it's always been very female oriented. They always had an active role and everybody knew that they weren't to be messed with. They were very strong women. So I've always been in an atmosphere where women were appreciated, I would say. Yes. And so was the Afro your first job? I know it was right out of college. you've how unique that you've never had sort of that other experience of women not being put forward. What a joy, what a gift. Yeah, lucky, very lucky. And so how has that sort of influenced your own family? know, as you have grown and obviously influenced others in your sphere, sort of having that focus of, you know, women can be the publisher, women can do whatever they like. Have you seen that come out in your own family in some way? I guess so think the women in my family, have are strong women as well. So I would say yes, I've seen them achieve things that I think are, in fact, my cousin was the CEO of the Metropolitan YMCA. She just retired last year. So for like 30 years, she was the CEO. yeah, I think they've seen, you and they, my aunts, my mother, my aunts were all strong women. My grandmother, you know, they were raised by a strong black woman. And that trickled down to us. So yeah, I think there's always been, it's always been, even though I know I've lived in a world where women weren't always appreciated and maybe not even now appreciated as they should be, I always came with a sense that, you you can do whatever you want to do. Don't let anybody tell you that you're not just because you, the color of your skin or your gender, you know? So yeah, I think that's always been strong. Now, was it a mark of family pride that you worked at the Afro? I'm just thinking the Afro has been such a kind of venerated organization in DC and in Baltimore. Like, was there a little bit of pride there? What did that look like? Yeah, that would, know, they would just, they always ask, you know, what's going on at the Afro? What are you doing? What are you working on? So they always wanted to know. They were always curious. And so, yeah, I think they were surprised, especially with my parents. Yeah, they were very surprised. Well, and you grew up in DC. you know, when sort of in that 60s, 70s range, there were probably a dozen Black-owned newspapers, or there were certainly more Black-owned newspapers, and now, you know, it's really the Afro and the Informer. So, sort of seeing some of those publications fall away, were there... kind of lessons that you all, and I know you were working on sort of the layout and making sure it was all coming together, but were there sort of lessons learned from the closing of some of those publications that you then brought into the Afro? think so. think because, as I said, I think that was one of the reasons why the Afro stayed on top of technology, because they saw that there were a lot of newspapers that did not. They did not want to, you know, forward. They did not want to go forward. You know, they believed that what they were doing was going to stay forever. And I think that the leaders at the Afro realized, no, we can't stay where we are. We have to stay with technology and move with technology. So I think that was the huge difference that they saw what was happening to other publications. They knew that that's not what they had to do, that they had to keep moving forward and staying, you know, stay up with what was currently going on in the world. So I think that's really helped them to stay where they are. And their commitment to, you know, always being who they are and staying as who they were in that sense of the pride that they had for what they did. But also knowing that even though they had that pride and that legacy, they still had to move on. They had to keep going forward. No. Yes. Well, we should. Now some of us don't. But yes, we should. Yes. But we certainly do. Yes. But you are now sort of on this cusp. You've closed the chapter of 48 years at the Afro and you're looking ahead. And I know you're interested in history. You have a full life. What's next for you? my God, Rebecca, I don't know. I'm still, that's still a mission. It's still a mission. know, sometimes I say, I wish I was passionate about something. I always admire women who, when they retire, they are been passionate about something and they know what they want to do when they retire. You know, I'm going to go out and garden, I'm going to go out and whatever, run a marathon or whatever they're going to do. But I'm just kind of in limbo right now. I'm like, you know, something is going to come to me. I'm just going to be open. to whatever comes. So right now, I'm just going to relax for a few months. And we'll see what happens after that. it is so important to kind of take that step back and discern what that next step is. know, like it's, you know, it's a joy to have had such a long period of time at the Afro, but it's also a grieving process. you're, it's not like you don't talk to your family at the Afro, but you're not doing that anymore. And so. especially when you've gone, you know, when you've been around people that you enjoy working with, you know, I've always said it's something to go into a job and work, but it makes such a difference when you go into a job and work with people that you enjoy working with. So, you know, I missed I definitely missed that interaction with with my coworkers very, very much. Yeah. And as you say, it's so I won't say depressing, but it's It takes time, I think, to get to the place where you're not wanted. You don't feel like you're not wanted anymore. I guess that's not the right way to say it, but that's kind how you feel like, oh, they don't need me anymore. So it's process, but you get there. And you want them to not need you. mean, would be like, wouldn't have put them in the right place if they had to come back and you had to save them each time. But it is a loss and it does feel like, it's a reassessment of kind of who you are and who you want to be in the world. But I've been so excited to talk to you. This has been a very, it's an interesting conversation. And I know that you have. so much more to give to the community and I can't wait to see what you do next. So thank you so much for spending some time with me. Well, thank you. Thank you for inviting me. And I hope I did a great job. A good job. I'm not much of a talker. So I always say that at work when we have some meeting or something, I've said I'm not much of a talker. And they're like, oh, go away, girl. Well, I think our conversation was really interesting. I'm glad we had it. you so much. Thank you so much.