Five Dubs Podcast
Five Dubs focuses on the who, what, when, where and why of local news media in Maryland, Delaware and D.C. We’ll talk with the journalists about stories behind the news. Five Dubs is a project of the MDDC Press Association and is hosted by Rebecca Snyder and Kevin Berrier.
Five Dubs Podcast
E122: Rewind - Best Move with The Baltimore Banner
Join us with The Baltimore Banner's standout achievement of 2023 with Editor-in-Chief Kimi Yoshino and Sports Editor Chris Korman. Discover how their strategic move to build a dedicated sports team has revolutionized their coverage, bringing in-depth and analytical content to Orioles and Ravens fans. From hiring top-tier journalists to engaging with the community through innovative digital platforms, Kimi and Chris share their journey of expanding The Banner's sports journalism. Learn about their unique approach to humanizing athletes, the impact of their coverage on subscriptions and their plans for the future. Don't miss this insightful conversation about the best moves in sports journalism!
Welcome. We are here today with nominees for MDDC's best moves of 2023 category for our contest. So I have with me, Chris Corman and Kimmy Yoshino of the Baltimore Banner, and they are going to tell us about their best move of 2023. Would you like to introduce yourselves? Chris, you want to go first? Sure, I'm Chris Korman. I'm the sports editor of the Baltimore Banner. And I am Kimmy Yoshino. I'm the editor in chief of the Baltimore Banner. Terrific and I feel like we have a little foreshadowing because Chris is here. So tell us about your best move of 2023. Our best move was building a sports team. When we launched the banner, we always knew that we wanted to have sports. We just didn't know how soon we wanted to have sports. And I can just say that everywhere I went, people were asking me, when are you going to cover sports? And so one of the first things I did was hire Chris and tell him, we need to be ready to go. by the time Orioles season starts. So Chris, when were you hired? Because that could be a really tight turnaround. Yeah, well, my first day was October 17th, 2022. So there was a little bit of a time, but we ended up hiring a reporter in the end of November. And he actually wrote his first story before his first day and flew to the winter meetings just to jump on the beat and be ready to go. Because really sports beats now are year round. And there's just always news happening. So we... got going as quickly as we could. And I think our second Orioles reporter, I think, started right when the season was beginning. Yes. So then in terms of your coverage, of course in Baltimore baseball is such a big thing as is the Ravens and football. So tell me, walk me through this coverage. Many of our listeners may not be reading you every day. So what does that coverage look like and how expansive is it? Yeah, so we ultimately hired, so we hired Andy Koska first to cover the Orioles and then we brought Jonas Schaefer over to cover the Ravens. And I think he may have covered maybe one regular season game for us that year and then the playoff loss. So we had two people and then this, the day that this is being taped is actually the anniversary of our columnist, Kyle Goon starting. His first day. He was, you know, we thought he'd be filling out paperwork and doing all the usual first day things, meeting people. And then Lamar Jackson signed a ginormous contract extension. And Kyle had to sit down and write his first, he had written an intro column that we had planned to run the next day. But his first column actually was a reaction to Lamar Jackson signing. So we had those three in place. And then we eventually brought in Paul Mancano, who is our social media. I mean, he does a little bit of everything. He actually covered the Orioles for us over the weekend in Kansas City. Just a very dynamic person. He's on. You've probably seen him on video. He's our tick tock presence. Hilarious. And then we eventually brought in Daniel Allentuck to also jump on the Orioles beat. And finally, we actually had we hired an NFL, another NFL writer who was almost immediately poached by ESPN. And then we hired Gianna Hahn. from the Philadelphia Inquirer to take over the Ravensbeat. And she probably got here last October. And that sort of completed our staff. We also have an assistant sports editor, Brandon Weigel, and a night sports editor, Mike Christ, who does a lot of the copy editing and posting of later stories. We also have a regular. Yeah, we also have a regular contributor and John Meole. He follows a lot of farm team. But I think and we have a podcast with Adam Jones, a very popular a former Orioles player, and we just really realized early that we wanted to go all in on professional sports and have it on different platforms. So very robust video presence, I mean, social presence, very robust podcast presence, and a lot of live streaming, you know, conversations with our staff. That sounds like you have really jumped in with both feet and I love the idea that, you know, of course the paperwork can wait, but you know, when Lamar signs his big contract, you gotta run with that. So I wanted to go back to sort of, Kim, you earlier had said that people were kind of clawing at you to start sports coverage. What makes sports such a sort of hot beat or a necessary addition to the banner? I mean, for one, from a business standpoint, I think it allows us to extend our reach beyond Baltimore City and really grow our regional audience. We know that there are fans of the Ravens and the Orioles well beyond the city limits. And so it really helped us get in front of Baltimore County residents, Anna Rundle County, Howard County, really just grow our regional presence and drive. new subscribers and new readers. On top of that, these are two teams that were experiencing pretty phenomenal seasons, an up and coming Orioles team that people are really excited about, the Lamar contract, Izzy or Izany signing, and then of course, their incredible playoff run. So these are teams that are like winners right now and everybody loves to read about winners. 100%. Yeah. We also, you know, it's fair to mention too, that we, we stepped into a situation where we were covering whether or not the Orioles were going to sign a long term lease and get the Ravens decided very quickly after I got here to take, to sign a lease and got $600 million of public money. And the Orioles waited around and it wasn't clear what they were going to do. And they were asking for more money than they tried to get a deal that would have been, you know, pretty lopsided for John Angelos at the expense of Maryland taxpayers. So it's a huge story for even people who don't necessarily root for the teams. It just has such a broad impact on our region. Yeah, such an important public accountability story. And we were all over it from a sports standpoint and from a government standpoint, but we would not have been able to do it without the team that we hired. Yeah. Well, and I wanted to kind of unpack that a little bit because sports coverage is now no longer like, oh, what happened at the game? You know, there's so much sort of human interest aspect and the story, you know, it definitely gets into the business aspects and it just kind of permeates everything. So can you share a little bit more about how you think sports coverage has changed over the years and what opportunities that brings? Yeah, I mean, we barely write about the games themselves. We are trying, you know, we know that fans can find highlight, you know, they can follow the game pretty easily. They can watch the game fairly easily. Highlights show up on Twitter as soon as they happen. There's so many ways for them to experience sort of the basic level. So our job is to take it the next step. And so we are trying to be very analytical. And we write a ton of stories that try to humanize the players. You know, that's really our goal is to bring you inside the Orioles Clubhouse. And I feel like we. have done an exceptional job of doing that. You know, if you read the banner, you know that Tyler Wells has struggled with his weight and stress eats and has tried to change that about himself. You know that Jackson Holliday grew up in major league clubhouses and was sort of a quiet kid but had this confidence that could sometimes rub people the wrong way. We've written so many things like that. You know that the Ravens last year ate 7,500 uncrustables because that is their like snack of choice. That's a lot of uncrustables. And so we're trying to tell that level of story and that's the big change. I said this to Chris too, as the team was getting launched, these stories should not just be for diehard sports fans. These should be stories for general fans. What is the food gonna be like at Orioles Stadium? And how can we turn just regular people into Orioles fans? So we've written, and Ravens fans, so we've written a ton of stories, as Chris mentioned, that really kind of get to the broader cultural phenomenon of both teams, whether it's their see-through white pants. their walk up songs, their Homer hoses, the MLK look alike that was at the Ravens game that kept popping up on national TV. We're really trying to write about the full sports experience. Mm-hmm. And so as a new, a relatively new outlet, you know, you started in 2022, and you didn't have a sports coverage beat up until recently, until last year. Do you have trouble gaining access? Was there, what was your reception when you kind of come up and say, hey, we want to cover you and we want to tell really personal stories that humanize you and aren't just about your batting average or your touchdowns. How did that, what did that look like? Yeah, I mean, no reticence from the teams. I think they were happy to have another major media outlet sprout up out of nowhere and start covering them. I think in general, they still see the relationships between media and teams have changed a lot, but I think they still see the value in it. And the other thing is it's interpersonal relationships. That's really our beat writers being very good at their jobs and knowing how to approach these athletes. and putting in the time. You know, a baseball beat writer can spend literally hours, certainly during spring training, literally hours trying to talk to players and getting to know them. And then even during the season, there's a lot of downtime in baseball, and our reporters are building relationships so that they can tell those stories, and they're doing it in a trustworthy way. And so one player says, "'Yeah, I had a good experience with Andy or Danielle.'" or John Meole, and then it sort of trickles down. And so I think we've developed a relationship where they know that that's sort of where we're coming from and they're comfortable with it because we've proven that we'll do right by their stories. Mm-hmm. Well, actually, just as a fun aside, you know, Andy Costco was MDDC's high school journalist of the year way back when. Yes, I actually you have a lot of illustrious people in that newsroom. Kristin Griffith was a rookie of the year while back, you know, you've got you got some stars there. But I wanted to talk to you more about, you know, that relationship because I think sports is one of those beats where because reporters are spending so much time with those players. It's a huge investment of time and energy and emotion in some ways. How do you keep your neutrality in that sports coverage? Because there's people that are doing... Like, you have to cover. You sometimes have to talk about uncomfortable things, or maybe someone's done wrong. As the sports coverage, how do you kind of... get through that as a reporter and an editor. Yeah, I mean, number one, we hired journalists. You know, we hired people who, that they love the writing and the reporting first and foremost. You know, they, it's an odd relationship sometimes between a reporter and their subject when it comes to sports, just cause everyone else, you know, there are people here who love the Orioles, whereas, you know, we have an ethics code that we can't, I'm not allowed to love a certain political candidate. So there is, you know, it's definitely a sort of weird relationship, but for the sports staff, we 100%, you know, we're here for the reader. We're here representing them and we were trying to get them the truth and trying to tell it the best we can. And so it was just really the process of putting together a staff that that's what they valued the most. And they. You know, they've been through it. You know, as you said, Andy Koska, he went and covered University of Maryland and you learn really quick when you go to a school like that and then join the student newspaper that sometimes you're on the opposite side of, you know, the administration, the coach who makes millions of dollars, all of your friends at the school, you know, and it can be a very uncomfortable position. But they've worked at it and they've sort of honed that ability. So it was really just hiring that we got the right people with the mentality we needed. And also, I mean, there are so many news stories that are coming about where we are covering really tense situations. I mean, we're fighting with them for access, for answers on contract negotiations, on lease negotiations, on criminal investigations. I mean, there's a lot that happens balances out the fun stories when you're doing the serious journalism and the serious accountability. So we actually haven't really had a problem with keeping the perspective. But I think from the public perspective, I think sometimes, you know, sports is something that's really close to their heart. And as the industry has changed and gone in different ways and more people kind of call themselves journalists without that underpinning of really strong reporting training and ethics standpoint, you know, I think that line in the public perception can become blurred. So One of the things that I think is so interesting about the banner is that you put your journalists kind of front and center on different topics and different issues. Is that a strategy to kind of humanize journalists and to talk about the craft or is that a different strategy? No, yeah, I mean, our sports beat writers are experts. You know, they are experts in what they are covering. You know, we certainly do not want them to be stenographers. We're not sending them out there to just ask questions and regurgitate. You know, they are pressing and they are studying. Our, you know, the NFL draft is coming up and our beat writer, Jonah Schaeffer, has watched a ton of film. He has studied, you know, he has a data story that I'm literally gonna go edit once we're done with this. He has culled all sorts of data points on what type of players the Ravens like to pick. And so we know that people connect with Jonas. He's been on the beat a few years now. He's a unique voice in an ecosystem that is crowded. There are a lot of people who have covered the Ravens for a very long time and are doing it for places like ESPN or The Athletic. So we know that Jonas and Gianna is developing that, but that they... they have to sort of reveal some of themselves because again, as you said, for sports fans, it's an emotional attachment to the team. And then we are hoping that they develop it for our writers. And I know I happened to be taking the light rail to a game with my three kids the other day and I heard people talking about Paul Mancano and they were like, Paul on Matson, I wasn't sure, but now he's with the banner and he shows so much of his personality. I love him at the banner. And that's the sort of feedback we're looking for is that they need to connect with these reporters. And so we're 100% putting them front and center as much as we can to create that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's one of the reasons why we have really leaned into social video, really leaned into these sort of live podcasts that we stream on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook and post on YouTube, because we really want... people to get to know us. And Andy has written about his father, about adopting dogs. Danielle has written about her curly hair. I mean, there have been all kinds of personal stories, I think, from our people too. And we want that. And I just, I kind of want to also add that one of the things that happened as we were building our team is that the athletic laid off their Orioles beat reporter. And it actually also gave us an opportunity to begin to fill that void because there weren't a ton of people covering the Orioles in the granular way that we are. And it has proven to be, I think, a really big opportunity for us. I mean, after the Key Bridge collapsed, I got an email from somebody who is living in Canada. And he subscribed to us for our Orioles coverage. But he said, I was really so happy to be a subscriber, and I also got to read all about this bridge collapse at the same time. So there are Orioles and Ravens fans all over the country who are subscribing to the banner for our sports coverage. feel amazing and so that's when we talk about the net effect of your best move. You know it sounds like it's led to more subscriptions sort of branching out into a more regional awareness or regional base. What other effects have has happened or did it do what you wanted it to do essentially? I mean, I think it's been big for brand awareness, like I said. I mean, I think not everybody wants to follow, you know, City Hall news. Not everybody wants to follow kind of every little thing that's going on City Council. But there are a lot of sports fans out there. And I think it has been, in addition to our food coverage, probably the most significant driver of reaching new people throughout Maryland. That's terrific. Now I wanted to go back to that multi-channel aspect that you were talking about. And I did not forget that you have Adam Jones as a podcast host, which is a pretty big get. So in this sort of, you know, I think of it as kind of a fractured media landscape. Do you feel like you're meeting people where you are, where they are, and how do you kind of keep a cohesive brand in all those different channels? Yeah, I mean, I think we are meeting people where they are. And I think Paul is probably the number one driver of that, that he sort of is even keeled and that it translates to all of those different channels and his ability to sort of quickly spin things up and present them there. It's been it is very fractured. You know, there are times that we will do a live show and three thousand people will watch it on Twitter, but then on YouTube, only a few hundred. And And then it can be the reverse too. And sometimes the numbers skyrocket without us totally understanding exactly why, but that's how people are consuming media now. You know, it's not, the channels are not linear. They're not clear. They change this from day to day. Sometimes the algorithm blesses you and you just take it. So we're, you know, but that's why we've done that is just to... figure out where Orioles fans are and hope to meet them there and then drive them to the site and the app and show them that deep level of courage exists on our product, but we're sort of using it to bring them in. Mm-hmm. Okay. And that makes perfect sense. And I love how you guys also, in terms of like meeting people where they are, that you're reaching out for different kinds of contributors. And I know that's not strictly sports coverage, but I've been interested to see how you're doing that with different voices. I think you're calling it artists in residence. Is there a similar piece that you're thinking for sports, or is that? kind of limited to the arts and culture beat. Well, you are right. We have a program called Creatives in Residence that we're re-upping again, that we opened up to whoever wants to apply. I'd love to have sports creatives in residence. We kind of consider John Meole our sports creatives in residence, but we've used a network of freelancers too, right Chris? We've got freelancers and really in some ways the creatives in residence for sports are like, the fans we know are super into it and super online and they sort of drive the discourse and engaging with them. Like last year we had Paul do a video talking to them about, hey, you guys just sat through, you know, you tried to launch your blog or podcast or Twitter account or whatever it was while the Orioles were losing 101 games and now they're winning 101 games, what was that journey like for you? So we're... sort of almost connecting with them and involving them in our coverage. That's sort of where I see it, is that we know, we've identified who sort of the big fans are, that other people, they're sort of the leaders of fanbases and we're trying to sort of involve them in our coverage. tour. No, that makes sense. And so as we wind down, you know, I want to know what's next for sports coverage. Because best moves, there'll be a best move for 2024. And I can't wait to see what it is. But what's next for sports for the banner? That's a good question. That's it. I mean, I know that Chris would like nothing more than to add, to continue to add to the sports team. I will say that in a couple of weeks, we are launching a new subscriber only sports newsletter. So that's yet another way for us to kind of tap into our subscriber base and give them something special. We are looking to do an event with Adam Jones. Last year we did a live taping of the podcast and we have a big conference called Impact Maryland and David Rubenstein is gonna be there. Again, part of our prioritizing our coverage and reporting around sports. We think this is a big story in Maryland. Yeah, and where our staff is really getting settled in, building this up out of from scratch has been, you know, a lot of things we've done are, we were accustomed to and it's sort of regular coverage, but we are, we've pushed ourselves a little bit and so we're trying to figure out what exactly works for us and I think our people are getting comfortable. You know, Kyle Goon moved from, he was covering LeBron James and the Lakers. So he's come back and he's tried to get to know people in the community. He's out meeting, you know, Gervonta Davis and Angel Reese and trying to connect with people like that. And so I think we will have more broad coverage just as we get settled in and become a little bit more a part of the community. And people realize who we are and that we're here and that we want to tell their stories. I think you'll just see a more diverse mix of stories while we keep the core pro sports coverage strong. Well, I can't wait to see it. Thank you both for coming to join me to talk about your best move of 2023. Thanks so much. you so much. Yeah, thank you.
