The Foureva Podcast
Welcome to The Foureva Podcast, where we break barriers and redefine success!
Join host Jamar Jones, a dynamic entrepreneur, national speaker, and author of "Change Your Circle, Change Your Life," as he takes you on an extraordinary journey of inspiration and motivation.
In each episode, we bring you an impressive lineup of star-studded guests, each with a unique voice and a wealth of insights to share. From industry leaders to renowned experts, we uncover their secrets to success in personal, business, and marketing domains. Prepare to be captivated by their stories, strategies, and experiences that will empower you to reach new heights.
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a marketing professional, or simply seeking fresh perspectives on life and business, The Foureva Podcast is your ultimate destination. Discover the transformative power of changing your circle and unlocking your full potential. With each episode, we delve into the minds of the most influential voices in the industry, providing you with the tools and inspiration you need to overcome obstacles and achieve greatness.
Don't miss out on this dynamic podcast that will fuel your ambition, challenge your limits, and propel you toward success. Tune in to The Foureva Podcast and join a community of driven individuals who are ready to make an impact. Get ready to be inspired, motivated, and 'foureva' transformed!
The Foureva Podcast
You’ll Never Guess What the Military Taught Tony Leone About Business.
Want to sharpen your sales skills, lead with clarity, and finally scale your business like a pro? In this episode, Jamar Jones sits down with international speaker and sales strategist Tony Leone, co-founder of The Constance Group, to dive deep into the psychology and process behind elite-level sales and leadership.
Tony has worked with Fortune 100 and Global 1500 companies, consulted on multi-million dollar deals, and is known for blending behavioral science with real-world sales tactics. If you’re in sales, consulting, leadership—or you just want to close bigger deals and lead with more confidence—this one’s for you.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
✅ Why most entrepreneurs fail at sales (and how to fix it)
✅ How to sell high-ticket services with confidence and clarity
✅ The secret to pricing your offers without self-doubt
✅ What separates average sales teams from elite ones
✅ Why your company’s culture might be killing your revenue
✅ How to leverage public speaking into long-term, retainer-based clients
✅ Tony’s journey from getting rejected to becoming a 6-figure keynote speaker
Tony also opens up about the lows of entrepreneurship, why social media is often just a highlight reel, and the real difference between value and features when selling.
🚀 If you’re ready to elevate your sales game, lead with impact, and close like a professional—this episode is packed with strategies you can use today.
🔔 Don’t forget to LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and hit that notification bell for more unfiltered conversations with high-level entrepreneurs, sales experts, and brand builders.
How does your partnership move the needle? Not solve, but move the needle on what my main focus of my company is. If I fail to attach those two things, I'm always going to hear oh, we're going to put this project off to next year. It's just not a priority, and I don't leave it to chance, like when I propose a piece of business, the first thing you see in the cover letter is here was your key business initiative, here's what you said, here's how we will help you move that towards that. And then the last key is dollarization what the juice has to be worth the squeeze. What is the financial impact of doing this?
Speaker 2:man, what is going on? Everybody, everybody, welcome to another episode of the forever podcast. Uh, man, we talk about everything branding business. Uh, we get to interview some amazing individuals, um, on this podcast. Uh, we got so much heat coming for you guys, um, this year 2025. Uh, it's been crazy. Right now it's snowing in virginia. Um, I'm not really liking that. I'm not really liking that, tony, um, it's, it's kind of crazy. Um, but I know I'm from milwaukee, wisconsin, so what are you worried about?
Speaker 1:yeah, this is gonna be gone in a week.
Speaker 2:So I'm not even. It's kind of crazy, but I know I'm from Milwaukee, wisconsin. What are you worried about? Yeah, this is going to be gone in a week, so I'm not even tripping on this man. We got a powerhouse in the building today on the Forever Podcast man, we got Tony in the building. So Tony is a co-founder of the Constance Group Behavioral Science and Sales Consulting firm with offices in North Carolina and South Carolina.
Speaker 1:I actually used to live in North Carolina when Charlotte, yeah, me too, man, I was in Huntersville for about 15 years. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I do. I love Charlotte. I love Charlotte, one of the cleanest cities that I've ever been to man. It's kind of crazy, it's true.
Speaker 2:It's kind of crazy. So Tony's an international speaker, he's the author of Sales Minutes for Sales Masters and he's a certified behavioral analyst certified in this as I am as well 12, driving Forces, eq and Exology, and also he's a lifelong student of sales leadership and communication. Man, he's worked with fortune 1500 global 100 companies and man, this dude's always on the road, speaking, inspiring and helping companies. Uh, change for the better, um, and he's a master at sales. So we're, we're gonna get into it, man. Welcome, tony, to the podcast, man my man.
Speaker 1:It's a pleasure. It's funny the first time we talked. So I get a bunch of these requests for podcasts and I yeah 99 of them.
Speaker 1:I'm out, right, I'm totally out and I saw yours and I was really into. I like listened to a couple of them. So when we got on the call I was so excited to meet you. But I don't know if you remember but I was so sick, I had walking pneumonia and I was leaving for Nashville to do a keynote at the Gaylord and then from there I was going to a private client to do their leadership group for an entire day workshop and then from there I went to Lake Charles to do a keynote the next day. So it was like this three day run and by the end of it I literally thought I said I can't wait, charles to do a keynote the next day. So it was like this three-day run and by the end of it I literally thought I said I can't wait to tell Jamar that I made it, I did it, I didn't die, I survived.
Speaker 2:You did look a little rough.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be honest, I was like dude, I'm surprised, even on the call. Yeah, well, you know, and the people was, you take off. But you and I, we both know that that first of all, try and say no to thirty thousand dollars and then also right, if you don't hunt, you don't eat.
Speaker 1:So that's just the. And that's when I say a lifelong student of sales. What it really is is just, I've been in commission sales since the day I graduated college, with all the ups and downs and bumps and bruises. And it's still that way for you and I as entrepreneurs who have to sell who we are, so, uh, I wouldn't have it any other way. And it's still that way for you and I as entrepreneurs who have to sell who we are, so, uh, I wouldn't have it any other way. And that's the life. Those are the ups and downs, but the ups are pretty good. You can take downs the ups are pretty good.
Speaker 2:Man, the life of entrepreneur is rough. I mean it's there's a lot that goes into it. Yeah, a lot that goes into the business. It was so funny. I was watching this one video on TikTok. I love I don't know what, I can't really shout out this guy because I don't, I don't remember the handle, because TikTok is just, you're just scrolling Right, right and I just remember seeing this guy. He said like what people think that the boss of the company is and like he's like got a cigar, he's got a scotch, he's got his scotch. He's like kicking down the door. His employees are just handing him things and he's just like he's got a championship belt on and he's just walking into the office and then he's like what it's actually like and he's like fumbling with all like the products and stuff, but he's like trying to kick down the door. He's on the phone, he's got all this stuff going on.
Speaker 2:Like that's that's the reality of the situation. Is entrepreneurship is tough man, so how long have you been in the business? Man? Like, how long have you been doing this for?
Speaker 1:So my sales career kicked off right out of college. That would have been 2004. Okay, and then, you know, I got slapped in the mouth because I thought I was really good, and then I got taught a lesson and then I started to get good right. I started to climb the ranks in the sales companies I was working with and then in 2010 or 11, right around there it was actually when I was in Charlotte a company I was working for that I was selling software they dissolved because of the economic crash but I was lucky enough to where a couple of clients I was selling basically training software and a couple of my clients liked me, hired me for a couple of keynotes and it just kept like putting food on my table and I was like if I could just keep it going.
Speaker 2:And I knew I could always sell.
Speaker 1:So when you could sell, you could take that skill anywhere. So I was never worried about ending up on the street because I was a good sales person and so that gives you a little bit of cloud cover and so I just never looked back and some ups and downs and a lot of great experiences there that we could talk about, but the the constant was I could sell, but honestly, at in 2025 I mean, I don't think it's going anywhere at this point. So I'd say it's roughly about 13, 14 years, something like that, that I've been on my own man and what?
Speaker 2:what is what has been one of the lowest lows that you've had in your in your uh entrepreneurial career in the entrepreneurial side.
Speaker 1:I um what I really struggled with was being good at helping people sell but not having the client base to prove it.
Speaker 2:And it was just this constant Talk about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah it was just a constant frustration of and you know, when you're in your early 30s I still had beautiful hair, no gray in the beard, you know what I mean. So the people are looking at you some kind the beard. You know what I mean, so people are looking at you some kind of way.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean yeah.
Speaker 1:And I just don't know if I had it. I remember I had gotten a training for a really nice client. They sold gambling machines in the Chicago area, which is big business. I mean, these salespeople, they have a route. They go to a bar and try and talk to bar owner and doing a split, and a year later they call me back and said they wanted a retention program and they had grown a lot. And I was like, ok, this is great. So they liked what I did. Now they want to safeguard their clients and I put at that time the biggest proposal I'd ever put on.
Speaker 1:The knew my fee and everything was lining up to where this should be simple and I learned and while that was a low is the best thing that could happen to me, because what I done was I had basically taken the excitement and the need at face value and thrown away what I do, which is a sales process, and I'll never forget. I actually reached out to the CEO right away. I said, hey, your VP, uh, just said they're going in a different direction. You hired me the last time and I remember he goes Tony, I hired them. I have to stand by their decision If I decided to step over them at their decision. What kind of owner would that make me? And he was right. And I just remember and I needed the money at that time and I was just thinking, ooh, this is it's. And I just felt like this is never going to end, like the journey, the challenges, and once I got good with that, then you start to settle into entrepreneurship. But that was a rough one.
Speaker 2:That was one where.
Speaker 1:I was, I was. It's one of those where you're counting the money before it hits the bank account. Yes, yes, it was that. Yeah, so that was a pretty big low.
Speaker 2:Other than that, you know what like why did you ever find out exactly why they went, like the real reason why they went in a different direction?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like the real reason why they went in a different direction.
Speaker 1:yeah, they told me, mainly because of cost and so yeah and if you, if you ever get a price objection I mean the, the platitude of sales trainers is, you didn't sell the value, which I honestly hate. What you haven't done is dollarize a solution which is attached what the hard numbers are to their outcomes, to what you're charging, and then and then drill that down to the lowest common denominator. And so I I've never asked well, when you talk about retention, what's your retention rate? What's the percentage?
Speaker 2:what's the?
Speaker 1:percentage point increase mean to you in dollars? Where do you think it can get to and then then benchmark your price against that, which is something I know how to do, but I just gotten excited and I was still pretty amateur in that area. That, uh boy, that one hurt man. I still remember that today.
Speaker 2:Oh man, we've all been there too, and thank you for sharing that. And then the reason, too, guys, why I started with uh, with one of the biggest channels obviously, you're going to hear a lot about a lot of successes from Tony uh as well today. But you're going to hear a lot about a lot of successes from Tony as well today. But, dude I, one thing in 2025 that I'm I'm trying to like really let people know is, like social media is just so fake, Like there's just so much fakeness. Everybody's balling, everybody's winning, everybody's got success.
Speaker 2:But deep down, like when you actually talk to people and get past the posts, but deep down, like when you actually talk to people and get past the posts, there's some real stuff going on. So I wanted to, I really am trying to train my brain even to like, even doing, like everything that I'm doing, I'm trying to make sure that people get the real story. And that's why that's why I started with that question with you, tony, because it's real out here, like, yes, do you have a lot of big wins? Of course, but there are some real challenges that we all go through. And, guys, you just literally heard a sales guru, a sales expert, literally having sales issues early on, Because what also when we're doing it for ourself? It's also a little different, just like marketing. I know a lot of marketing agencies that can't market for themselves.
Speaker 2:Like a lot of them, but they're charging five, 10, $15,000 retainers for other people, and maybe they know how to market them. Okay, but they can't even market themselves. So, guys, this is this is real, this is the reality. And what you said, man, is the difference between you winning that bid and not winning. It was literally by positioning value. So I want you to talk about that just a little bit more in detail, because, especially for small businesses in particular, that's like their main problem. They always try to sell you the features, the benefits, or maybe, hey, you like me, we got a good connection, you know, and that's what they try to sell you, but at the end of the day, they're like man, why am I not getting any clients? I think you kind of touched on it, but can you go a little deeper into that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm happy to. It's a big conversation, but I'll tell you this because you mentioned something that is a symptom of a lot of salespeople and they say, oh, let's build rapport and let's get to where they like me. Let me tell you something if you're not likable, sales is not a good job for you. That should be like pillar number one, which comes with the territory, and I'm not saying you have to be all things to everybody. There's behavior, like you know, death. So there's, there's ways to adapt to someone's communication style, which is part of that. But building rapport is an outcome. What do you do on the on the way to making that happen? You need specific steps.
Speaker 1:When we talk about value, specifically if you lose something to price, which you have failed to do is a couple things within the formula, and that formula is very simple, especially in b2b transactions. It's is and I call it the key business initiative, or it could be the main focus of the company. But if you, let's just say you were selling to me, you'd say, tony, what? Before we jump into marketing and branding like I'll put myself in your shoes Before we talk about the branding thing that we're here to talk about and how to market your business. Let me back up for a minute and help me understand what would you say the main focus of the Constance group is. It's like one, maybe two things, and I would tell you it's scalability. How do I scale my business? Because I'm running out of calendar days, and so what you then do is then you have a, you just start to drill down the conversation to what it is you're there to talk about in your world branding, my world, sales training and leadership sales training and we would say, okay, now, then how does your partnership move the needle not solve, but move the needle on what my main focus of my company is.
Speaker 1:If I fail to attach those two things, I'm always going to hear we're going to put this project off the next year. It's just not a priority and I don't leave it to chance, like when I propose a piece of business, the first thing you're seeing in the cover letter is here's was your key business initiative. Here's what you said, here's how we will help you move that towards that. And then the last key is dollarization what the juice has to be worth the squeeze. What is the financial impact of doing that? So my questions are easy, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, how big is the sales team? What is the average net margin revenue per sale? What is your lowest sale? What is your highest sale? What's your closing rate? If I get that up by one or two points, what's that mean to you in dollars? Up by one or two points, what's that mean to you in dollars? So I'm actually getting to me what's the bare minimum I can do to their perceived maximum ROI. So I could charge you six figures. If one of your sales is a six is a $500,000 piece of equipment like Caterpillar. My clients so when.
Speaker 1:I asked him. I said well, how much is, on average, is one of your combines that you sell to a farmer? And he's like five hundred thousand dollars. I go well, how many salespeople do you have? He said we have 16. I said, OK, so if I could just get one person to sell one more piece of farming equipment this year than before, they'd met me and I. This is how I said if I can't do that, I have no business being in this business for 14 years, and so those numbers have to make sense to the client. Most salespeople say it'll help you do this, It'll help you do this, but I'm not using your data, I'm only using my perceived value.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's gold. That's gold. And also I like how you broke it down so simply for people to really look into. How are they pitching, you know, and oftentimes it's not really. You don't have to pitch, you just have to have a conversation. And that's kind of where you started, like, hey, find some understanding and figure out what their goals are. What's a priority for them now? Because if you're telling them a bunch of stuff that's not a priority, guys, listen, you're not going to get the sale Now, because if you're telling them a bunch of stuff that's not a priority, guys listen, you're not going to get the sale. It might be, it might be something too, that they need, but if it's not a priority to them, that's why you guys are getting turned down, that's why you guys are getting a no and that's why you don't have clients. It's because you have to know what's a priority to them now and attach yourself to know that you're the only.
Speaker 2:So I always say this quote from um, an amazing person, uh, precious williams, I don't know if you know her uh, she's an amazing speaker. She calls herself the pitch master, um, and she has been on shark tank. She's done like a bajillion things in her life. But she always says be the uh, be the only choice that matters. So like you have to make sure that after you're done with that conversation, like dude. But she always says be the only choice that matters. So you have to make sure that after you're done with that conversation, you're like dude, I need Tony, I need Tony. It's not even like I want Tony. I need him to get to meet my goals. He's the only choice that I need.
Speaker 1:I don't need to look anywhere else. Well, here's what's crazy about that. I don't need to look anywhere else. Well, here's what's crazy about that. You can get that without saying one thing about your solution or product, which is where most salespeople have a massive disconnect. So think about this If you're a big business and you call in a consultant, why would that business call in a consultant? It's because that business has determined they have a problem that they don't know how to solve on their own. The consultant isn't saying here's how you solve it. The consultant, in fact the whole joke is consultants prolong problems. That's how they get paid.
Speaker 1:But we call ourselves sales consultants. So therefore I need to position myself in front of you as not being able to move forward without my guidance. But you don't do that by telling them how to solve the problem. In fact, that that they need you less when you help them solve their problem too early. So so what you're trying to do I call it deficit selling is I'm trying to.
Speaker 1:You usually think you're here when you get done talking to me. I'm widening the gap through my, my questioning skills to where the the brain goes. Tony has something back there in this, like wizard of oz curtain behind him. That's causing him to ask these questions that I clearly have a gap in. I don't have the answers to these, I haven't thought of these. I'm not sure what I would do. And and now, based on Tony asking me these questions, I am going to rely on him to guide me through the rest of this process, and that typically is happening first 30 minutes of a conversation, 30 minutes to an hour, so by the time you get to presentation stage, that is a. You said it already. I love what you said To me. It's a very logical conclusion to an upfront, problem-finding conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, 100%, 100%. Logical conclusion to an upfront problem finding conversation. Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent, A hundred percent. Where? Where did you? Where did you like? Do you just have a love for sales or love for human behavior Like, what is it why? Why are you doing this? Why?
Speaker 1:are you?
Speaker 2:doing this.
Speaker 1:I got, I got, lucky man I got. I got a horseshoe up my ass because my father is, hands down, one of the greatest salespeople that have ever lived and he is quietly one of the most powerful sales trainers and consultants ever. And he just was one of these individuals that wanted more of a lifestyle business, you know, became a very comfortable millionaire uh, having at like maybe five clients right, that paid him very well. Put them on retainer, they paid him not to to train their competitors, right. So he is, and these were very big companies right, which is where I found my way in. When you did the opening about the global 100 fortune 500 companies, that's how I got into that, because my process was already working in there. So everything I learned I wish I could tell you it's from my own genius, but it's not. It's something that I watched my dad do. He wrote a book in the 80s that is still incredibly relevant, but nobody knows about it and it's one of those things where he was just very happy, did not need to scale, the business was all good, kind of being the whale in his lake and that's how he lived, and so for me there was a really fun opportunity to extend that, because it was still like most people go well, this is great, this is fresh, and I go, it is great. But I'll tell you what it's also been in the marketplace for over 50 years, and so I watched it.
Speaker 1:I'm the third of three kids, right, so I got an older brother and sister. I'm the only one who's like my dad, right, so I've got, I got the dna of my father. My brother and sister bless them, they don't. They went off to do other things in their lives and, um, when, when I was growing up, the I had seen the outcome of a successful salesperson, I had seen, uh, you know was it. I wouldn't call us ultra wealthier or anything, but I also was private school kid, was pretty. You know I wasn't going to end up on the street. You know what I mean With that. You know my dad let me struggle. He figured out ways to to make, make it not easy, so there's a nice balance that he created for me. But you couldn't hide the fact that my dad had cool friends. He had rich friends. Everybody was asking him for advice. We had a boat, we had cadillacs. You know it was like. So for me I'm just being honest, right like you said it, I'm not gonna bs anybody yeah, so like for me.
Speaker 1:I went damn sales, what a gig, what a gig sales is. And then I got in it and I got punched in the face and I got the lights shut off of my house and I was like, oh, this is harder than it looks. So my dad laughed at me. He's like yes, son, you saw the outcome by the time. You know, my dad had me at 40. So you think about that? Would like be me having a son three years ago. So I'm 43. So that's a long runway.
Speaker 1:Um, what I didn't see, which is grind, heartache, pain, long weekends, long nights, and he was an incredibly dominant salesperson. And so when I figured that's what it takes, I got back to the drawing board. I really got into how he did it and my first goal was to model how he did it be successful. And then the second goal was to make it Tony. Like, so I couldn't be my dad. That was a big mistake I made. I was never going to be him. I am not him, even though we have the same personality. We're just not our parents, right. So for me I had to make it Tony, and that's when it really clicked. So, to answer your question, a long way. I've always seen it, I've always observed it, I've always been around it, I've lived and breathed it. And my passion now is to give that gift back to other people, because to me sales is the greatest profession in the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent. So you said a lot there and I just want to break a couple of things down just for the audience, just really quick. First of all, generational impact is crazy. It's crazy, it really like. The fact that you had that, that role model, had that structure, had something to look up to, even in your environment, is incredibly powerful. You know, and so I say that to everybody is, if that's not your current situation, then so for me, I'm the, I'm the change your circle, change your life guy. So that's that's all I ever talk about is change your circle, change your life.
Speaker 2:Look, if that's not your environment today, get around some people that are doing it right, so that way that you can learn from those individuals. I'm sure Tony going in blind if he didn't have that example I mean, who knows, who knows where he would be today? Right, no one knows where he would be today, but he definitely had some kind of example or some type of like, just constantly getting it, even through osmosis. So you say you have some siblings too. I'm sure that they gotten some, even through osmosis. So you say you have some siblings too. I'm sure that they've gotten some things throughout osmosis. A little bit, a little bit, a little bit. It's gotta be something Like, just even if they weren't really interested, they gotta at least have something Like are they at least doing? Well, are they doing-.
Speaker 1:No, they're wonderful. My sister ended up in the military and um now she works, uh doing grant work for uh the government, like for um underserved communities, so she's more of our compassionate one in the family. And my brother has been in women college sports since the day he got out of college so he's coached all over women's soccer from clemson, arizona state, harvard, maryland, so he's a stud in his own right. So, yeah, maybe there's a little something see okay, come on, they're all driven okay they're all driven in their own unique ways.
Speaker 2:So something, something rubbed off on them, um, from just being around that proximity of just that example, right, and so, people, if you're in a situation where you don't have that, please, you got to make some adjustments in the intentionality around changing your circle and getting around the right people, and oftentimes even for companies, so, like if your culture is not what you would like it to be and your sales, you guys are being mediocre out there. A lot of you are, a lot of you are be honest. A lot of you guys are. They're listening, ceos are listening.
Speaker 2:Like, just ask yourself really, is your sales team where it needs to be right now? Are you just letting things slide, letting things get by because it's working? Are you doing what's always worked and what got you here? Is that what you're constantly doing or do you have? Also, do you have any other examples currently, right now, within your sales organization that you can really point to and say man, we want to be like that, that's what's guiding us. Ask yourself those questions and keep listening to Tony, because I'm just saying, if you guys got it, okay, cool, we're happy for you, keep it up. But a lot of us? I don't think we have it like that.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll tell you what man. The bar is low. I hate to say that, like that, the bar is low, but the sales industry, for as much information as we have access to it's, for some reason it fails to get out of the blocks into extreme professionalism why is that why?
Speaker 1:I um, I've had some theories on that one the, the age of the that we've been in the last 20 years around digital marketing. Yeah, you're able to. This is my opinions. I don't take it for gospel, but you're able to key in on the personality type that you can appeal to in very short chunks, like the tiktok style. So the personality that is traditionally in a sales role is that di combination. Right, so you and I both know this. So the d is the driver, which is the closing component, and the high I is the relationship, verbal skills. About 73% of successful hunters not farmers, but hunters, not account managers come from that combination. Okay, so if you know that about your demographic as a skilled marketer, you can then create your messaging to say you just got to press hard three copies, kick ass, take names and you go. Yeah, I resonate with this person. Therefore, I buy it.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to call anybody out, right, you've probably seen these people. But and I'm a competitive person, right, I don't. I have a rule that I don't mention my competitors by name, but I also hate them. I hate their guts Like I do, right, so I told you I'd be real man. So, and you should like you. You should. Friendly competition is cool, but you should also be really mad when your competition's winning. Yeah and um, and it's a North star, right, I don't, I give their, I give them their flowers. They're great marketers. They're doing that way better than I am and I'll.
Speaker 1:But I will come across situations where a client has used a competitor and they'll say how come you're not as famous as this person? How come that's not happening? And I think that it's because, in this age where we're flooding people with very short content and skills, that sales is one of those things where everyone's looking for the easy button and the 101 ways to overcome an objection and 99 fancy closes. And this is my problem. I need a quick fix when, in reality, sales is a game of sophistication and human behavior, which is not always simple. People are complex, even if, I think.
Speaker 1:If you then get into a B2B situation, you're talking to multiple people. They're all making decisions based on the highest impact of themselves and their career not always the ROI, unless it's the CEO and so you think man, how do you navigate people like that? How do you navigate personalities? How do you add in behavioral model modeling that puts things in your favor. How do you use language? And so there's there's a lot of science the reason they call it a science behind it that you know. You got to work at it.
Speaker 1:You can't sit here and and I like it like you know we before we work at it. You can't just sit here and and I like it, like you know we before we got on, I was like is this visual? Is everyone going to see my sweatshirt?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to bring it up.
Speaker 1:So, but but just take football in in in general, right, most people love football, so like it's a really good example. Yeah, on, on Sundays they play the game. On Mondays they watch the tape, they review what they did on Tuesdays and Wednesdays they usually strength training and getting things right. On Thursdays they implement the game plan. Friday, saturday do the walk through the game plan. Sunday they play the game. That is professionalism.
Speaker 1:And these are people that are getting paid millions and millions of dollars, who have been doing it since they were five years old and they still do it every single week. Because, as Kobe once said and I heard this from my buddy named Allen Stein, who you should probably get on the podcast he said Kobe told him I never get tired of the basics. He said, kobe told him I never get tired of the basics. And so, if you think about who we are, we are trying to influence behavior. We are trying to influence people's thought process. We're battling cognitive dissonance, we're battling siloing and protectionism and if you don't understand how your strategy eliminates those natural barriers, you're gonna fail and you're not practicing and you're hitting that easy button. So I think it's gotten a little bit worse now. There's levels of organizations. I'll talk to where they are great.
Speaker 1:There's levels where I go man they're not great and I'd say the more of them. I'll be just flat out frank. They're not willing to put in the good work that'll put them in the top 10% of the industry.
Speaker 2:Man. So let me, I agree with you, I agree with you, but let me just ask you something. I do feel like that quick marketing that you're talking about so that that works with, um, low ticket stuff right, low ticket stuff. But when you talk about high ticket stuff, that's where I feel like you have to have what you sell, like what you talk about, what you speak on, like you have to have that human behavior. You have to know disc, you need to understand people, you need to understand different selling methods. Because even if you're dumping all this money into that quick marketing right, and the thing is, I love both, to be honest, I do love both because I think you got to have somebody that's waving the flag and says, hey, look at me over here and get attention. And I think that's what the short form videos do. They, they get attention to say look at me, you haven't heard of me before, but now I'm engaging you and I'm entertaining you in a way that at least you're going to click. But then what happens is it helps, you can get that low ticket stuff, but once they get somebody on the phone, it's got to close, dude, I still think. I still think they gotta know this. But so I'm gonna ask you, just so, this in a different way yeah, once, once we get them on the phone, why?
Speaker 2:Why do companies settle so much with their sales and they're not putting in the reps, like you described, like in a football game, where it's like they're working seven days throughout the week on this stuff, fundamentals, basics, fundamentals, basics the same regimen every single time. Why is sales a wild, wild west, literally? I mean, I've walked into stuff where I'm like, guys, I've been to a lot of unique places, I'm going to let you know, ok, and I've seen some stuff behind the curtain. And I'm like, guys, I've been to a lot of unique places. I'm going to just let you know, okay, and I've seen some stuff behind the curtain and I'm like this is how this is running. I know this is crazy, this is a huge company and they got like it's just like they can do whatever they want.
Speaker 2:And so why is that? Why? But why is, especially if sales is the number one driver, like, if you don't have cash, your business is done so, but so why? Why is it that sales is just one of these things, that it's like we're not crafting it, but we'll bang, we'll try, we'll tweak this. You know marketing to be like, okay, let's maybe put this more in the budget, let's tweak it this, let's try this demographic, let's maybe try this copy, let's try this ad, let's try this creative. It's like so many tweaks, but where is that in the sales?
Speaker 1:That's a great question and before I get into that I'll I want to say this. You asked why do I think the bar is low. It's because I think the behavior of salespeople is to just take those shortcuts that they see and not dive in, cause you'll see me doing the quick tips and stuff. On social too, yeah, I want to attract you in within the one box that I have, but I just think that most sales people go well, I'm not going to go any further, I'm not going to do what it takes so that. So I totally agree with you.
Speaker 1:I'm a big believer in marketing. I used to think sales is more important in marketing. I don't believe that anymore. I think it's yeah at. You know, marketing might edge out sales, depending on the business, but they certainly are equal. So why do some companies not get it? There's such a big answer that rolls up into one word, which is culture. So there's a couple of cultures that I'll look at that I know are going to be a problem child, and here's how I look at my different cultures.
Speaker 1:In an organization, you either have an operationally driven culture, you have an HR driven culture or you have a sales driven culture. Those are the three that I see the leadership runs. Sales runs up to one of those and lets that that individual or that leadership structure drive their revenue source. That's what's gonna happen. So let's just take an HR driven culture. Hr is training, development, learning, hiring curriculums. However, you're not gonna get an HR manager who's fired for lack of sales performance. They don't like if the revenue number goes down. Very rarely does HR manager get a hold accountable to right. Vp of sales does. Yeah. Then I'll say can I help you hire salespeople with the assessment that I use? And they go no, that's got to run through HR. I go wait a minute. That's like the old line you want me to cook the meal but I can't choose the ingredients Right, and so so they. They really show you like when I'm working in these big organizations you're talking about, I mean changing structure of organizations. Holy, I mean it could be moving the Titanic. You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean Operationally driven organizations live and die by their product and they educate clients. And this is a big problem in tech companies because they've usually had a fast ramp up, because they were fast to market, very logical sale. All they had to do was get people on the phone and people like man, this is amazing. I've never seen anything like this Buy, buy, buy, buy, buy. Then it grows and then at scale, they fail to have something repeatable. So then you start to get junior salespeople in there and they're going well, do what Jamar does. He's our top seller. Well, I can't code Jamar. Jamar is a badass, I don't know. Jamar's got an it factor. Yeah, also, jamar is not skilled at transferring knowledge.
Speaker 1:So, and then, operationally, then the people go well, just, oh, we got this rfp, let's go after it, we got this opportunity, that's a good customer, that's a good prospect, let's go after it. And as opposed to a sales culture that says no, no, my job is to be the voice of the customer. Everything runs up from the sales organization up, runs up to the chief revenue officer, chief growth officer, and they own the decisions in the sales organization and nobody else does, From hiring to implementing a sales strategy, to driving revenue growth in that culture. That's who they are and that's how they live and breathe. And then the rest of the company knows that nothing happens unless a sale is made. So those are very and you'll see, you've seen this where the companies demonize their own salespeople yes. When they're the ones putting food on the plate, yes, I've, literally.
Speaker 1:Guy would never mentioned that by name, but I have a client where half of my battles is is the new CFO doesn't like salespeople. And I go, you cannot, you like, you don't think they're going to figure that out. And they're wondering why they're struggling to get some change in behavior. And so why does this happen? Well, you could depends on the approach. Right? If you hired really good salespeople, you typically go I'm not, I don't need to teach you, so I'm gonna let you run.
Speaker 1:And as that scales out, that becomes a problem. If I hire junior salespeople, I may need, need more training, but they're juniors, so they may leave. Am I going to keep them forever? They're low level, they're entry level. How much money am I going to put into them? And it just is this perpetuating cycle of really not knowing where to go with it, when in reality you should just be. We are a sales company. We are never going to stop improving our sales culture. We we're never going to stop improving our sales culture. We're never going to stop talking about what happens when a sale doesn't happen and everything drives towards revenue through sales growth.
Speaker 2:So that's it, man. It's such a good answer because it is culture. It's got to be the answer. So what do you think about people?
Speaker 1:like Grant Cardone Andy.
Speaker 2:Elliott people that are just screaming sales to the top of their lungs.
Speaker 1:What do you think about? I always, you know my. If you had asked me ten years ago I would have had probably a different answer, right, okay, my tenacity and my personality, like in, and I'm very competitive. I got a little bit of that Italian tying fire and and and. So now I go.
Speaker 1:I first asked what are they doing, right? So clearly they are creating great connections with and they have a high, high net network. Cause you take Andy Elliott to me, he came out of nowhere, I'm out of nowhere. Out of nowhere, bro, I've been doing this for 16 years and I'll tell you most of my competitors aren't them. My competitors are Sandler, miller-hyman, challenger, richardson. Those are the ones like when I'm competing for a business, those are the big ones that I compete with. So I wonder what their market is Right, and I don't see them going past some of the transactional sales like cars and solar, and that's typically not our world. So it could be that their message is required for those individuals. Cause I have dealt with car dealerships and you want to talk about. I mean, I don't have a car dealership engaged me right now. They'd have to pay me a lot of money, because to work with the those cultures is is honestly very difficult. You're not teaching sophisticated sales skills. You're teaching be happy and excited when a customer comes in, so be professional.
Speaker 2:Tuck in your shirt like so be professional, tuck in your shirt, like my guy. So my guy, a really good friend of mine named randy walensky, so shout out, randy, he, he speaks all over the place, but he, he speaks on, uh, customer service. He literally got hired in for a couple just to go off what you just said. He literally got hired and he's like we have a problem with smiling. I'm not kidding, they paid thousands of dollars for, yeah, to go in there to teach the cut, to teach especially the sales people, yeah, how to smile. It's how to smile, dude, like what?
Speaker 1:are we doing I know and and so I think there's probably a place for that, right, but think, but think of the personality of the, of the car sales manager. Yeah, that hustler, young, hot shit sales manager that goes. Yeah, I need Andy Elliott to tell my people they all need a six pack, which is the most hilarious thing. I'm like you want to talk. I give props to Andy for having the stones to say that I'm like, well, like I get in trouble for saying grilling people.
Speaker 2:I give props to Andy for having the stones to say that I'm like whoa.
Speaker 1:I get in trouble for saying that. You be grilling people man on there, you would last. I have some HR-driven companies that would have me in their office pretty quickly after a comment like that. But look, I think we're playing a little bit of a different. But I mean, they are definitely whooping my ass in the marketing game. They're whooping my ass.
Speaker 2:I was going to say they're marketers first, though yeah, they have really figured out the marketing.
Speaker 1:Content, branding and marketing machines, and they're just flat out kicking my ass in that area, and so I'm willing to accept that and I got to decide. If that's the road I will go, if I need the scale, but in terms of what I think about them, I'll tell you this I just don't run into their strategy and messaging with some of the customers that so part of my world also is, if I'm training your organization, most of the time they don't want me training your competitors. So we're getting deep into your pipeline on how to win a piece of business, and that business might be a one-year sales cycle.
Speaker 1:And so we'll know. Hey, this company uses Challenger, this company uses Sandler, this company is using something in-house. They're using Miller Hyman, right? Everybody knows who their competitors are using and so I know typically who we're competing against. There's a couple that make me nervous, but they're more like the boutique sales organizations like me, like if I know that.
Speaker 1:I'm going up a couple people that I love and respect. I'm like, oh boy, we got to strap up here. But for the most part I don't run across them, so I don't know much about their sales.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no shade, no shade. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:They're killing it right.
Speaker 2:I was just curious, just curious on your. You know, just you being in sales, what you think of that kind of Let me give props to somebody who is outstanding.
Speaker 1:Alex Ramosi that guy is a wonderful example of marketing blended with sales. I mean, he is someone that I engage with their content and trust wholeheartedly, and I imagine when the sales book comes out it will be a very valuable one. So there's one where that person's hitting all the biomarkers for me like hitting all the all the biomarkers.
Speaker 2:For me very educational, which I, which I uh, appreciate. Yeah, a lot of the content. As you break it down, a funny story I actually had a chance to meet, um uh, alex and leila, um, in vegas. Did you go to the workshop? Um, I went to. No, no, I didn't go to the workshop no no, this was, this was was content.
Speaker 2:We were filming, content, okay, and they so it wasn't. They weren't on the list and I'm I was filming the next day in Vegas at the win with David Meltzer, and what happened is I flew in super late so I didn't realize and I was super tired and they were like yo, come through today if you want, because we got some people coming by. They didn't tell me who was going to be, so I was like dude, it's late. I got to get up early to film. Like I'm going to catch you guys tomorrow. I walk in there the next day. They're like dude, alex and Layla came through and they said they show me pictures and everything. I'm like are you serious? Like the time I'm like when normally I'm like dude, let's go, like, let's go. I was just for some reason. I was like, I just was so exhausted, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm kicking myself for that one that's hilarious.
Speaker 1:I've been thinking about heading out of their workshop because, because, uh, I, I try, and you know, eat the medicine that I'm prescribing, which is fill in the gaps like 100, and train up. So so, if, if you want branding and and marketing help, you know, get it direct from the source. So I think I'm gonna head out there this summer, that's the goal.
Speaker 2:That's cool, so. So you're always training and and working on your own stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Look, it's expensive not to learn these things. That's what I. You know, I did this for so long with social media marketing because I'm that like last of the Mohicans of Gen Xers 43. I'm class of 2000. You know what I mean? We still had to flip phones and the nokias and yeah, I had a pager.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:So so social wasn't like you know, not my. I'm still the grumpy old dude at a concert. It's like put that shit away, right yeah so here. You want to feel old, so are you, so what's your? What's your so? What do you listen to the most? What's your genre?
Speaker 2:Dude, I mean.
Speaker 1:Just give me the one that you can't live without.
Speaker 2:I'm old school like I mean hip hop probably.
Speaker 1:Hip hop.
Speaker 2:Most of it R&B hip hop. All right, so I got tickets.
Speaker 1:It's next month. I'm going to see KRS-One here in.
Speaker 2:Charleston Nice nice.
Speaker 1:And so I had a group of sales people, young people, and I was so thrilled I just got the ticket. Like that morning I was like y'all go to see krs1 and everyone's like. I was like nothing, yeah, nothing. Not like nobody said. I was like no, this can't be happening.
Speaker 2:They're like who is that?
Speaker 1:I was like no, just one of the pioneers, just one of the pioneers of hip-hop yeah, anyway, that's a little side note, but yeah, I like I put the blinders on for social media marketing and in fact, my father did the same thing. This is a real interesting story, an important lesson for people I have. Now I start to look under every rock, as opposed to I thought I could identify the rock that would have something cool under it and that has failed miserably. So I, my father. I remember he would go out to Vegas and do a three-day workshop with this gentleman named Tom Antion. Now most people won't know Tom Antion's name, but Tom was one of the real pioneers in sales funnels. When I talk about one pager like digital marketing and I and like it was just like a one-page website, I mean very, you're talking early 2000s. And he was he.
Speaker 1:My dad would say he had a uh, a speaker attached to his computer that would go, speaker attached to his computer that would go cha-ching every time a sale was made. And he said we're in his house and it's just going cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching. And my dad was like what is that? And he goes those are people buying my ebook or buying my workbook and it's getting mailed out from Amazon. And my dad was taught this, came back and never implemented it. If my father and here's what mailed out from Amazon. And my dad was taught this, came back and never implemented it. If my father and here's what's really going to kill you Guess who owns the trademark to the sales funnel? We do. Guess who owns the URL salesfunnelcom? We do. My dad never monetized it because he said wait what.
Speaker 2:Wait wait, wait, wait. You own the trademark and the domain for that.
Speaker 1:Correct. If you go to salesfunnelcom it'll take you straight to my father. You'll see his beautiful Italian mug salesfunnelcom. So here's what happened. This is such an interesting story which I didn't plan on bringing up, but the book that he wrote was called Success Secrets of the Sales Funnel. He wrote it in 1989, pre-internet. So the way he designed his sales strategy was the customers all the way over here and you're over here, there's a series of steps you take that bring you closer together to a contract. So it was like how do I meet you and go from a stranger to contract? And when he mapped that out, it's like, oh, this looks like a funnel trademarked. It bought the URL and actually the process we still teach. I call it the sales funnel.
Speaker 1:It's just not digital marketing for us, it's the funnel on how I get you from hello to contract and so I tell that story because he said he could have been ultra wealthy if he had just implemented something. His very wealthy colleague and friend, who he also paid a lot of money to go out to that workshop for, is probably back then. It's probably like 10, 15 grand to spend a weekend with him came back was like you know what I'm not? I'm not internet savvy, I'm an old guy, I don't need to do this. And then him came back was like you know what I'm not? I'm not internet savvy, I'm an old guy, I don't need to do this.
Speaker 1:And then I came and did the same thing with social media and I went I'm not, I'm not the, the person that's going to do the video. Tick-tock, I don't dance right. Instagram I I don't really care about putting pictures and it's just such a mistake. Obviously, as you know, and and I know now and so, if you're listening to this, as an entrepreneur boy, you're better off getting it wrong than missing the ones that were right man, that's that.
Speaker 2:that even hits me a little bit, too, because I know I've, I've. There's been times where I'm like I should have hopped on and I didn't. And I'm kicking myself now because I'm like, dude, where would I have been now if I would have hopped on at that time? Dude, that story is crazy. First of all, that's going to be a clip. Because that story is crazy, bro, because you could have been, so you're dead and then, because Russell Brunson is really known for the click funnels, right, so everyone goes.
Speaker 1:Well, how come you can't sue all these people? Well, we tried act. Microsoft act was the first violator of the term sales funnel and my lawyer basically told my old man you can fight it and you will win and you will go completely broken apart in the process yeah, it's, they're gonna drag it out for exactly and so he never defended the term, and now basically it's like trying to defend something that it's not.
Speaker 1:So most people would look at our business and go you're sales consulting, you don't do a marketing funnel. Yeah, and you haven't defended that in 20 years, so you know it is what it is insane story, though that's like if anybody wants to build funnels for me, you know I'll. Uh, I'll put a little tab on my website that says marketing funnels. If you're any good, I'll outsource. I'll give you the leads. Just pay me a chunk of the money.
Speaker 2:You know there you go get that residual dude. That's a. That's a crazy story, that's it. I did not expect to hear that from you today at all, um, but it's also such an important lesson for everybody because we see these trends, we see this time like, and sometimes we're just hard-headed and we don't want to just put in the time to learn.
Speaker 2:And I think, whether you believe in his kind of manner or stuff with Gary V, I think that the one thing I love about what his message is is the fact of if you don't understand something, just go into it for a few hours and just look at it. Stop making all these compliments or all these comments on it and all these suggestions or things that you think it is, and just go into it. For he didn't even say create content. He said just hey, if you don't like TikTok or you don't understand it, just use it for three hours and then make some. Whatever you want to put in your head about it, just at least use it. And there's a there's a lot of people in this life that they say they're doing a lot of this and they need they don't know a thing, they haven't even stepped into it for a couple hours freedom to even understand it. You know, um, especially in the youtube comments and social media comments, like they don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 1:The comment section is treacherous it's treacherous.
Speaker 2:It's treacherous like they, because they're just behind the keyboard, they're just tapping and then like it's like dude, there's no repercussion. Um, I want to, I want to ask you, man, you're dropping a lot of gems for people today Speaking, so how obviously I see the natural transition from like sales, training, consulting, to speaking, but like you speak all the time. So, and I know some sales consultants that they speak, but it's like it's every you know, every once in a while you know, and then they're doing more training inside companies and they're they're going in. Um, what got you into speaking in that way? Where you're speaking, you're on the road, you're constantly on the go. And then, how did you get better? Like, describe to me from your first time, like on stage, to like now, like, how did you? What were the differences?
Speaker 1:You want to talk about pain. Record yourself doing your first speech and then rewatch it. We'll talk about pain. What record yourself doing your?
Speaker 1:your first speech, oh, and then rewatch. We'll talk about that in a minute, but so speaking's another one of those that I grew up around uh, it ended up being so my dad again, as you can tell, I, I, uh, I give all props to the old man. Without him, none of this happens. So I, um, he had when he so his background was he was a number one salesperson in two very different industries and, like they would actually rank out like you know he. He started like his most popular industry was he sold swimming pools, like high-end concrete pools, yeah, so they'd have like a top 100 list and he was always at the top and so that consistency had conferences asking him to share how he did it. That's how he then developed the, the process for a teachable format, and so he was speaking for a living and there's, um, I don't know what's your experience with national speakers association a lot, yeah, yeah, with national speakers association a lot, yeah, yeah, that's wide ranging too, but like, oh, like, back in the day it was, it was wild.
Speaker 1:I mean, there were wild human beings in that, in that association, and so I was, uh, I mean it was like you know, you'd see the dude who was handicapped and had like a like, a like a pro charger on the back of his wheelchair, be zipping through the lobby at like 40 miles an hour like and then there'd be another person who was like you know, I remember nito cabane, who's the chancellor of high point university, one of the sharpest dressers, most eloquent human beings ever you just be enamored speaking.
Speaker 1:I saw less brown at 10 years old. There's another guy, willie holly, who was one of the most powerful speakers I'd ever seen. I saw harvey mckay speak when I was probably 13. I mean, you're seeing powerhouses speaking over and over again. So I was like it was another one of those things where I was enamored with the business. And from about 8 to 16, I was in what they called the youth group, where you would hear speakers who were predominantly speakers for youth audiences. So that's such a powerful place. I mean, what a cool industry for that to be your thing. Yeah, then 16, about 21,. I was a youth leader at that, so I was in NSA pretty much my entire adolescence. Wow.
Speaker 1:Then there was a big gap, gap I didn't think about speaking. And then, once the entrepreneurial journey really kicked in, a couple of those clients that kept me on actually hired me to speak at their regional sales conference. Yep, and that's another of those things where I thought I was, I was hot and that I had good verbal skills and I was hot shit and that I had good verbal skills and I recorded it, thinking I was going to get a demo. And I looked at it and, if I tell you, I'm sitting in my recliner, I got call marks down the side of the armrest because I'm just like horrified of my pacing, my inflection, when I thought I was getting a reaction. I wasn't. It was wretched and I vowed never to let that happen again.
Speaker 1:And then I started taking coaching. Patricia Fripp is someone who I went all in on early. Then I worked for a guy named. When I worked in Charlotte I worked for a guy named Jeffrey Gittimer who wrote the Little Red red book of selling and the sales Bible, and he was like rockstar status at the time. He was speaking everywhere, so I saw him speaking a lot and so I just started to get a little bit better every time. And then I constantly the key is recording it and watching it and just being looking- back at the film.
Speaker 2:This is another, this is the same. It's like the back to the football analogy. You're looking back at the film cannot make any adjustments.
Speaker 1:You cannot fix your behavior If you don't know what you did. If you think you're going to remember what you did, you're going to remember the good stuff, not the bad stuff. 100%, 100%. My speaking journey has been amazing. It's a has been amazing. It's uh, it's the number one driver of our retainer business. So, really, you know if I'm, if I get on stage, that's where most of our leads come from.
Speaker 1:So when I personally prospect to get business. I'm initially prospecting, get on stage and then I I am good enough now to where they say man, how do we work with you more? Then we engage, then that starts my sales process. We make that happen, I close the business and most of my clients are on one to three-year retainers. So that's the modest, but that's the speaking business.
Speaker 2:With your speaking, do you? So you have a book as well, so do you? When you talk about, about, like charging a fee for you to speak, yeah, um, how did you come up with your fee, uh, for today. And then, um, how do you mold in your book into?
Speaker 1:that as well. Yeah, so I. The fee is basically what you feel comfortable with, plus 15 percent mentally, mentally right, talk about that. What? Why is that? It's because you've got to get over the fear of the number that's going to come out of your mouth 100.
Speaker 2:I knew you're going to go there too, your fees.
Speaker 1:Five, you go 7500. Yeah, you think your fee is 7500, you go 10. If you think it's 10, you go 15. Right, yep? And obviously your calendar dictates how high your fee goes 100. If you don't have shit in your calendar, you'll do it for 500 bucks. You and I both know that. Right, you're like oh, I need to eat. I had one of our speaker colleagues say I don't have fee integrity, I have eat integrity. I wish I've ever said that, but that was a great line. But so here's how I adjusted, because you can't just drop your fee without a business reason and you have to have fee integrity in the marketplace.
Speaker 1:So it is the business reasons for me for ever dropping my fee is will you let me pitch from the stage? That's one. So if my fee goes below a certain threshold, you must let me pitch on the stage, If not, I need to charge my full fee. And the other is if it's possibly a private client and there's a bigger opportunity, I will say I'd be happy to do a what I would call paid audition, where I'll reduce my fee drastically, or you pay the fee upfront and I'll roll that into a retainer. If you do it, All I ask for in return is access to the key stakeholders after the talk if you liked it.
Speaker 2:There's always a business reason for I like that paid audition yeah yeah, I mean I like that.
Speaker 1:You can never give a concession without a business reason. It's rule number one in any sales right. So if I'm selling to you and let's just say it's a million dollar contract and you go, Tony, I'll sign it right now if you can knock off 2%, and I say yes, there's a certain behavioral style out there that'll go whoa, what just happened? Are you taking advantage of me? What else you hide? How can you just do that just happened. Are you taking advantage of me? What else you hide? How can you just do that? And maybe I had room, maybe I'm willing to take it out of my commission.
Speaker 1:It's got to be a business reason, because either you're going to lose that deal or you're going to end up like swiss cheese due to a negotiation. Yeah, you're just going to poke holes in you and you're never going to get any margin. So in any of these scenarios that live by certain rules and so I'm predetermined what those thresholds are. So if it's no fee, you're going to let me pitch and I'm give and the best way to do that. And I said, look, I'll give value, value, value. 95% of the top. The last 5%, I'm going to hard pitch them. I'm going to have a QR code with the, with the link to my, to my online training with the whole field. I'll basically, I'll basically Russell Brunson jr training with the whole spiel. I basically I basically wrestled Brunson Jr, yeah, but today only it's this.
Speaker 2:For the low price yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, and that's that's, that's how I do it.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's. I love that. And cause we got a lot of speakers that listen to this podcast. Yeah, so that's gold, man, I've never heard about the paid auditions and I've been working with speakers and just in this speaking space for years, man, so that's interesting, paid auditions. And then the way on how you lower the fee is dependent on what your ability is. And then that meeting with the stakeholders Guys, this is gold, this is gold, this is gold. I mean it's. It's good, because that's ultimately what you want. If you kill it on stage, because then usually the business kind of just like they just move on right after the event. They move on. But if you can get, if you can get a meeting with some of the key stakeholders after, or just a plant pre-planned call that's already in the calendar, like that's gold, because then that call, especially if you just killed it on stage, it should go well for you.
Speaker 1:I mean the chances the close rate is a lot higher, a lot higher, and you got to remember I am I'm not saying this just to sound cool, but I am very confident once I get in front of you how high my closing average is, once I engage in my sales process, if it's gotten to as far as you see me speak, and then I engage in my process to get from hello to contract.
Speaker 1:It's done deal, so it is pretty high, unless I determine it's not a good fit. So you know you could. You know the NSA? They tell you to never speak for free. That's not true. If you believe you could sell, like I did, a free one I remember. So it's a really good team. If you got speakers, I got on um I used 10 times though. Yeah, 10 times, use that all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, so you know 10 times and I'll do a geographic within two hours and my outreach to the keynote uh, the executive director whoever's booking and said look, I'm within a two hour radius, which means I can drive and I don't need a hotel. So I know that budgets are everything, especially for associations. I'm a world-class speaker, also, with it being so easy for me to get to as long as there's nothing prioritized in my calendar and you also give me an out if I'm speaking for very low, like maybe I can give you like a three-month cancellation, like I have all these parameters, but I said this could work really well. You can get a very expensive speaker for next to nothing and also if I've deemed it a good opportunity. So I did that for the Sales and Marketing Transportation Association.
Speaker 1:It was in Savannah, I did the talk. I think they paid me peanuts, like 1500 bucks, yeah, but I ended up getting a one-day training program which they paid 12.54, yeah, out of that because of vp, of sales. So I and I ended up parlaying that. So so you're talking, you know very little, and it was a 30-minute talk, 30-minute breakout. I knew I would have the right audience because it says sales in the title. So I went to Savannah, banged out a quick talk, picked up $1,500, got a client boom and then it's like Came right back. So don't tell me that you don't speak for free.
Speaker 1:Just find out what's valuable for all parties involved, not just you, but for everybody. Yeah, it makes sense for everybody.
Speaker 2:I love saying this makes sense for you and me. Yeah, yeah, I like that. Yeah, because mutual it's a mutual, uh beneficial thing, yes, for both parties, which, when you can make both parties feel like they're winning, then it's like okay, done, deal, let's, let's do this. If somebody's getting screwed over, like even the person that's on the up and up this I mean, I guess, depending on who you are, but I mean you probably don't feel right you know?
Speaker 2:no, I totally agree, you know because how many times have we gotten something for free, and and it was definitely more of a headache than anything Right, you know, be like oh, I'm getting a free videographer for this. And then you look back at the footage you're like bro, what is this Like? What is this, though? Why is there no audio? Oh, sorry, something happened to the audio man. It's like yeah, but you got it for free, man, you got the hookup, yeah, exactly dude, this, dude, this, I could talk to you all day.
Speaker 2:Man, there's, there's so much gold, uh, because you're in sales, and so this is, I think, is one of the uh number one or number two problem for most businesses. It's either marketing or sales um for most of it. And then, of course, um, I think the third and fourth can be flip-flopped on execution and you know, product delivery and that kind of stuff. But most people's problem when it comes down to growing um, what they have going on, is the attention on their eyeballs, on on who they are, and then the ability to close um, the ability to actually sell your, your product or service. Um, a lot of people just don't learn this stuff. They don't, they're not, they're not shooting shots in the gym, they're not, they're not in the field. Looking at the tape, you know they're not training, they're not practicing this stuff, um, and it's just so important to do that.
Speaker 2:Uh, and then that's why I think the number one takeaway from this is like, if you guys are not training throughout 2025, or at least each year, like you guys have to put some stuff in place, like, make it a priority, because if you're sick of being where you're at, like you, you can only look at yourself. You can't. You can point fingers all day, but if you're not willing to change, if you're not willing to do some action, like dude, what do we? What do what are we talking like? If you really don't like where you're at today, guys, reach out, reach out to somebody. We're not saying reach out to us in particular, if you want to, you can get out, reach out to somebody, somebody. Man, if you really don't like where you're at, you have to constantly keep training and developing and getting that skill set sharpened. Man, keep sharpening that sword.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll leave you because you reminded me of something, so this is going to be my, because I know we're wrapping up.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I love basketball right and unfortunately I was born in a 5'9 frame with a tie-in bloodline. You know what I mean, so my vertical was not very high. You got a jumper though. You got a jumper, I got a little bit of a shot, but I can't get it over anybody's six feet. I was doing P90X in my 20s oh, everybody was doing P90X. I was fit. I was doing P90X in my 20s oh, everybody was doing P90X. I was fit, I was fit.
Speaker 1:That's the only time I got on the court at the park and could hang a little bit. One time I bricked up a shot that bounced off the backboard. That was me trying to make the shot. By the way, it came back to me and I laid it up and all the brothers looked at me. They like, oh shit. And I was like that wasn't on purpose, that didn't do that on purpose.
Speaker 1:So all that is I love basketball, I love the game, I love playing right and so, like lebron james could teach me how to dunk a basketball for every day for the remainder of 2025, for three hours a day. It is not physically going to happen because I'm not talented enough, I wasn't born with that right, but he could spend maybe 30 minutes a day for 30 days on my free throw and my free throw percentage would undoubtedly go up. There's a difference between skill and talent, and if you have a skill, you can rehearse it in your mind, you can practice it, you can self-talk, you can visualize it, you can hear things going right or wrong, you can play different scenarios home or in a way. So there's a lot of things that go into the skill, and what I find is most salespeople are talented and they're going to be good. They're like the Ben Simmons of basketball Talented enough to stay in the league right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:For basketball fans. They know what.
Speaker 1:I'm talking about For anyone outside of it that one may go over their head. But so a lot of people are talented enough to do good, but to do outstanding it's a combination of skill and talent and, and you know, I have a process. I didn't need the drive. I didn't grow up where I may. If, if I don't succeed, I could end up on the street. That wasn't the life. That's more my dad's model, right.
Speaker 1:But my business partner, brian, who's a fascinating human being, complete different life, grew up in a single wide, didn't never went to college. Uh, his mother passed away when he was one, his father demonized money. And Brian has a purpose. And Brian and I, when we converge as he's my partner in the Constance group when we converged he was doing very well and I was doing very well. And so how is that possible? Well, it's a combination of his purpose overcame things and my process overcame other things. So if you ask, like, what are the top one percenters are? They're the people that find a purpose and the people that then find a process and the people that understand the difference between skill and talent. When you got that figured out, I don't care what your background is, who you are, what you do or where you come from, you can be absolutely rich being a great salesperson. There ain't no doubt about it.
Speaker 2:Man, dude, that's fire, that's fire, and I love the equation around it. I mean this is that's fire, that's fire, and I love, I love the equation around it. I mean this is great information for people to take home. Really look at what they got going on in their current situation, guys, and it's time to level up man. So I want to, I want to talk about really quick with Tony. So you launched a new sales growth engine.
Speaker 1:Yes, the sales growth engine is part of that scale scale model that we're working. We're slow playing it, but man it is, it is on fire. So it is basically my whole program, from a new business, sales to account retention and growth, to negotiation skills. I'm recording the prospecting course right now and it's also if you're a leader, there's an option for sales leadership. So I have I mean, we've built everything that goes into revenue generation through sales or client activity. It's in there. So it's us condensed and it's just. It's powerful. Man, you can. We've got a feature that you can connect with me via what we call video. Ask you just send me a quick like one minute video asking a question. We do masterminds. It's solid man, so it's as close as you can get to being a client of mine without having to pay the big old fat retainers at those big companies.
Speaker 2:Right and, like we said, guys, if you don't like where you're at, this might be a good first step. You know, like you guys got to get this information, you got to get training you need you need to constantly be working on this skill because you can't just survive on talent forever if you got it, if you got it um. So where can people connect with you, tony? Um, how can they get in touch with you? I always tell everybody on every episode everybody's reachable um. You know that I bring on, even if I bring on some really big guests, but they're, everybody is reachable um. Just say, hey, I heard you on the forever podcast. I'm interested, I want to learn more, I want to get in touch, I want to have some coffee, whatever it is um, just reach out to tony. I mean, how can they get connected to?
Speaker 1:you, yeah, you can find me on linkedin super easy, tony leone. You, you can recognize the, the ugly mug, but basically you can find me, tony leone, the constance group or instagram easy to get into the dms because it's not too crowded yet and uh, it's tony leone, speaker on instagram. So, if you, if you like it, just hit me up and if anything, I just appreciate a follow-up engagement. Man, I'm in it for the long game. Um, I've been successful on the consulting side, so we're building out the, the scalable side. So, yeah, if anything, throw me a like and a subscribe.
Speaker 2:I'd be forever grateful dope man, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Um, this was crazy, like I could go another two hours asking different questions, but thank you for your time and everybody listening, watching. Please like, comment, subscribe to the podcast. We appreciate everybody showing us love. We got a lot of heat coming. We're really happy with what Tony dropped just to really help empower leaders, ceos, uh, businesses, especially entrepreneurs, uh, to get to that next level. So, uh, don't forget guys, if, uh, you can change your circle, you can change your life. So, thank you so much for listening and we'll catch you, guys, on the next episode, peace and love. Don't forget to like, comment and subscribe, and don't forget to hit that notification bell for more amazing content that we're going to be putting. Peace and love, thank you.
