Entrepreneurs Don’t Need More Tools… They Need This (The Enji Story)

Before building Enji, she was a marketing consultant working closely with founders and entrepreneurs — and she kept seeing the same problem over and over again.

It wasn’t a lack of strategy.
It wasn’t a lack of ambition.
It wasn’t even a lack of tools.

It was burnout.

In this episode, we unpack the real story behind Enji and why simply giving entrepreneurs more marketing software isn’t the solution. Because building a business is deeper, harder, and more emotionally demanding than most people realize.

This conversation dives into what founders actually need: holistic support, clarity, and systems that work with them — not against them.

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed trying to “do all the things” in your business… this episode will feel like someone finally put words to it.

🔑 Key Points

Why “just giving people tools” doesn’t solve burnout

The hardest work entrepreneurs sign up for (and don’t expect)

What consulting revealed about founder overwhelm

The mechanics of marketing vs. the emotional reality of running a business
How Enji was inspired by real client struggles

What holistic support for founders actually looks like

🧠 What You’ll Walk Away With

A deeper understanding of why business feels heavy sometimes

Clarity around what kind of support you actually need

Permission to stop thinking you’re the problem

A new perspective on sustainable entrepreneurship

🎯 Who This Episode Is For

Founders juggling marketing and operations

Coaches, consultants, and service providers

Entrepreneurs feeling overwhelmed but still ambitious

Anyone building something meaningful and feeling the weight of it

⏱ Timestamps 

00:00 – The Backstory: From Marketing Consultant to Founder
03:45 – What I Kept Seeing Behind the Scenes With Clients
08:20 – Why More Marketing Tools Weren’t the Answer
12:55 – The Emotional Weight of Running a Business
17:40 – The “Hardest Work” No One Warns Entrepreneurs About
22:15 – Checking Boxes vs. Actually Growing
27:30 – The Breaking Point That Sparked Enji
32:10 – What Founders Really Need (Beyond Strategy)
37:45 – Holistic Support vs. Hustle Culture
42:20 – Building Enji Around Real Struggles
46:35 – Sustainability, Systems & Sanity
50:15 – Advice for Overwhelmed Entrepreneurs
53:00 – Final Thoughts: Redefining Support in Business

Transcript

Meet Taylor And NG’s Origin

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Before we launched NG, I was a marketing consultant. And I that's really all of my clients are the inspiration for what the software platform ended up being. I know that there's it's not just about giving people the tools, it's about really holistically supporting someone because this legitimately is the hardest work that anyone could sign up for. And there are like the mechanics of running your business and doing marketing and you know, checking things off of the list.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Welcome back to another episode of the Forever Podcast. It's your boy, it's your host, Jamar Jones. I am the founder of Forever Media, international speaker now. International speaker that's changed since I went to London. That's why I got the London hoodie. Um, I need to get a new one, but it's busted. Um International speaker since we did an event out in London, fireside chat, it was absolutely incredible. Uh, an author of the book, Change Your Circle, Change Your Life. And today is a special day for multiple reasons. For multiple reasons, but it's a special day because we got a new co-host of the Forever Podcast that we want to announce, which is crazy. Um, my man Matt Stone. What's going on, bro? Welcome as the new co-host of uh the Forever Podcast, man. Hey, introduce yourself real quick so everybody knows what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Well, Jamar, thank you so much. It is a true privilege and honor to be uh working on the show with you now. Um, I'm super excited. Uh Matt Stone, recovering lawyer. Uh, I've done a lot of consulting jobs, a lot of business development over the years with startups. I have a passion for entrepreneurs, and I am the uh co-host, the host and creator of another new show called the business, the building business relationship show. And along with that, I'm I've started a new uh media enterprise called Amped, which is all about helping entrepreneurs use trust to scale their businesses better and faster. So it's it this is I think a match made in heaven, and I'm excited to be a part of it. 100%. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

I'm so I'm super pumped, man. I'm super pumped. Uh he and Matt's gonna bring a different energy, I feel like, to the show, which is which I'm excited for.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

I mean, you are not you are not without energy, my friend. So I don't know. Can these mics handle this? I don't know.

New Co-Host And Show Energy

SPEAKER_03 2:52

So I anytime I introduce our special guest, I always love to do it with a story of how this all happened. So um we got Taylor uh from NG uh here as a special guest. And I um before I just introduce you real quick, um, so this is kind of crazy. So okay, so I was keynote speaking at an event that NG was a part of and and partnered with them. Um and then they ironically were sitting at the same table for lunch, which I so I got to kind of hear a little insights about what they got going on. So I got to meet um her and Brett, and they're just awesome, like really good people. Just just the the mission, vision, and everything that they stand for uh was authentic, and I just didn't smell like a bad bone uh in their body, which is absolutely incredible. And so I had I had to talk to them a little bit more. So we got talking a little bit more, and then they actually um partnered up with our retreat uh in Denver uh for the unscripted uh retreats uh with Meredith Grundi, which was absolutely incredible, which Matt was actually there at the event. So this is gonna be really cool. This is gonna be really cool. Um, but NG, they're doing things different. So Brett gave me a demo of NG, and I'm telling you, guys, the platform is crazy. The platform is crazy because every small business, especially from a foundational standpoint, needs this platform. And from all your other schedulers and all the other stuff that you guys use, your platform doesn't have an actual strategy built into it of customer personas, understanding your messaging, who you're targeting, and how you're actually going to do it and what's performing. So that's the difference maker with NG. And that's why I wanted to highlight them on the podcast, really talk about their journey, everything they got going on. But Taylor is really the marketing mastermind behind this whole thing. So I had to bring her on the show. Welcome to the Forever Podcast, Taylor. How are we doing today?

SPEAKER_01 4:54

I'm doing much better starting my day off with this conversation, that's for sure. My cheeks are already like Taylor, you gotta chill out with the smiles if they hurt.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

Oh, it's all it's all good. It's all good. Um, yeah, I I uh so what's what's something interesting that happened to you this month?

Why NG Stands Out In Marketing

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Oh, this month? I mean, we actually packed up our home in San Diego to rent it to a lovely retired couple who's gonna snowbird in it for the next six months. And we then were on the road for two weeks for back-to-back in-person conferences with like our booth and a lot of our personal effects for two weeks, which sounded smart when we decided to do that. And then in execution, we were like, this is complicated. But now we are in Mammoth, California for the next six months, and we're gonna be the hardest working ski bums on the mountain for sure. So that's that's a big life transition. Ski bums. Yep. I mean, we're gonna be chasing hundred-day ski season, like a hundred-day ski season. So, like we will be out there on the mountain a lot, but I also will still pull lots and lots of really long days here at my computer.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

Oh, that's awesome. What has been the uh the transit? So you basically were moving, had a show, and had to run the company. That's a lot to manage. So, how how does that how do you do that as an entrepreneur? Like, how do how do you manage all of that?

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Checklists of the yin yang and like just trying trying to eat the elephant one bite at a time. So it was a lot of abnormal routines, and I wouldn't even say I had a routine for quite a few months, just living in the gray, right? Which I think a lot of entrepreneurs unfortunately know how to do. We have this muscle for living in a space of transition because our lives are kind of always shifting. So balancing all of these things at the same time was not fun. I would not sign up to do that again, but I made it to the other side.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

That's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Man, I yeah, can I I just want to say like I think skiing is such a perfect metaphor for the entrepreneurial journey because what you don't see is all the planning that goes into that few minutes that you get to do when you're going down the slope, and all of the, you know, watching the weather and getting there and the equipment and then ascending the hill, however, you do that, and then trying not to kill yourself or anyone else. I mean, that that few minutes is like that's the the the exciting part that you get on the video, but there's like 90% of it is all the planning, right? And I'm we'll get into that, but the planning and the execution and and setting it up for success.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yep. You know, actually, the longer I have been a startup founder, like I've been an entrepreneur now for more than a decade, but the startup founder, you know, chapter of this, the more time that passes, the more I have to go do like slightly dangerous things with my body on the mountain to clear my head. Because those things like downhill mountain biking and skiing, which Brett and I like to ski really fast and get into the stuff that's like kind of fucked up. Um, like those are the only ways that I can be fully present and not thinking about work because we're doing something consequential, like with our physical selves.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

So there's a lot of lessons that the mountain has taught me that I get to bring back to this like safe space of working in an office.

Life Transitions And Founder Grit

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Yeah, for sure. And it's speaking of the lessons, so one um interesting thing. So we just had a uh uh kind of a group recap call with everybody that attended um unscripted uh in Denver. And um we kind of asked everybody, like, okay, so who's used NG and like what are what are the things that you guys uh some feedback? Like, give me some feedback on. And uh one lady spoke up and she's like, the coaching calls are awesome. So, you know, I was like, oh, so you like really use it. Like you really use the capability. So I feel like that's a total difference maker. A lot of platforms, yeah, they give you the tools to do things, but they don't give you any guidance. So talk to me about the strategy around why you offer the coaching calls for uh the users of the platform.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

You know, before we launched NG, I was a marketing consultant. And I that's really all of my clients are the inspiration for what the software platform ended up being. But I know that there's it's not just about giving people the tools, it's about really holistically supporting someone because this legitimately is the hardest work that anyone could sign up for. And there are like the mechanics of running your business and doing marketing and you know, checking things off of the list. But we're humans that often feel like the melty-face emoji, and we just need someone to tell us that like it's gonna be okay, or your idea isn't as hare-brained as you feel like it is, or they just need a human to bounce ideas off of instead of for me, it's like I stare at the white wall in my in my office, just hoping that the right answer is gonna land in my brain. So I always knew that NG was gonna be this combination of software paired with real human support, because I mean, what what entrepreneur wants to do this by themselves? I I mean, I guess there's there's probably somebody out there, but I don't know those people.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

I don't know them either. I don't think anybody signs up to do it by themselves.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

So it's also impossible. There's that there's that little detail, but you know, absolutely impossible. 100% 100.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Yeah, the the doing it by yourself is uh interesting for small businesses because um you know I'm I'm always like I talk to so many entrepreneurs every single day, right? And I'm the the thing that uh is very interesting is the fact that they it's almost like they want to be on this island, and they're like this this pride around like I need to do everything. Um, I don't know if that's because that they work their their previous job, they're like, I'm taking ownership of everything, and this this is mine, this is mine, no one else can touch it, but it's like you then you end up so isolated, and then you're you're you're just on the struggle bus, like every day trying to trying to climb, climb, climb, and you're wondering why it's not working. Um from that standpoint, like how do we transition those entrepreneurs from that isolated feeling to actually getting some traction and then trusting others uh with some direction?

Mountain Lessons For Entrepreneurship

SPEAKER_01 12:14

The trust piece is the huge part of this, right? Like we all start businesses for different reasons, but there's typically a common thread, and control is one of those common threads. And you know, when you want to have control over something, it's hard to trust that anyone or anything is going to do the job at the level that you want to see it done. And so that's how a lot of entrepreneurs end up isolated because they just start to shut every everything or every person that could possibly help them, they shut them out because they're like, you know, you're not gonna do it the way I want it done, or it's not gonna be good as or as good as if I did it myself. And so they just make their circle so tiny until they inevitably hit the hardest wall that you could ever hit, because we're all humans and we don't have all the answers, and also it's hard for us to like keep the level of motivation that's needed all on our own and in isolation, and so you know, a lot of people erroneously think that asking for help is a sign of failure, and that's the piece that everyone just needs to like bless and release. Like asking for help is not an admission of I can't do this or I'm wrong or anything like that. It's actually it comes from a place of drive and strength because it's the thing that you need to do in order to make sure that your business is still around, right? Like if you just decide that you're gonna be in this like glass box of emotion, then you're gonna end up making the wrong decisions because you're making them out of a place of desperation.

SPEAKER_03 14:11

Yeah, 100%. Matt, Matt, I want you to ask her selfishly. I want you to ask her a question, like a marketing question. Just just you know, just for your own, even your own benefit, but also that same thing is gonna benefit the audience as well. But I think this is this is kind of the the the cool thing about the podcast. Like we give people for a little bit of time that we can ask them whatever the heck we want.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

It's true. Yeah, it's like a mastermind that we're showing you live. I just want to say, I first of all, this question, this conversation is so spot on. I was just reminded I saw a clip of Kevin Hart talking on I think Diary of a CEO recently. Didn't see the whole thing, just the clip. And he was basically saying how he's learned like how to make real money was uh to be the dumbest person in the room. Yeah, he was, you know, and like just start at like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, you know, and don't hide the fact that you feel like a financial nincompoop. Like, say, I don't know, like my literacy is low, and most of us are. I mean, you know, so it's like be the dumbest person in the room, be humble, open, right? That's what I'm hearing you talk about that's really hitting. So I guess my question for you, because this is so a hot topic for me in my own business in helping others and my own business in and of itself is always looking at how do I show up authentically? An overused word at this point, but how do I show you a real version of me on social media that helps people helps me draw in the people I want to draw in, the right people. Uh, and uh that's not everybody, but but how how have you found that maybe your solution or just any other lessons you've had in terms of showing up as a real version of yourself that that helps reach your your intended audience in a in a in a real way and build that relationship?

Coaching Calls And Human Support

SPEAKER_01 15:58

I love that question and authenticity, yes, it's like authenticity, please can just RIP democratize. Oh my god, if anybody uses that word anymore, I'm just like I my brain shuts down. Um but when you want to show up as your real self, to me, it's about having a point of view, which all of us have in regards to what our business is, what our product is, the service that we're you know, we're out there providing to other people. And when you have when you are comfortable sharing your own point of view, that actually is an uncomfortable thing to do a lot of times, because you you have to be honest, you have to be vulnerable, you have to say sometimes things that the people like the greater people around you aren't comfortable enough to say. And that to me is the truest form of authenticity. Um, that's that's how I operate as a person. My mom, like my parents would tell you, I came out the womb that way. Like I was, I'm just always gonna be the person who says the thing that everyone else is thinking, but no one has the cojones to like verbalize. And you know, I'm not always saying, I'm not usually saying something novel, but I'm saying it with my own point of view. And that's the thing that really draws people toward my personal brand. With NG, I'm less spicy because it's software, but you know, but when you have co-founders, you can't just like say, you know, unilaterally this is how things are going. So there's there's a place to like compromise there. But as if if anyone's listening and they are a solopreneur or you know, a solo practitioner, like that's what draws in the the highest quality clients who are most excited to work with you.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Yeah, for sure. And that authenticity, like um people, so it's funny because some people like struggle with it, but I always find it very easy to unlock the authenticity in somebody because you just truly have to be yourself in the sense of do the things that you'll like die on a hill on, basically. Um, anytime you start to like fabricate or emulate other people, people can sense that a mile away, that you're like, you ain't really doing this, right? Or you ain't really uh like you don't really believe that. Like I I I we can just sense it, or you just read that in a book. Like you're not, you don't really, like you haven't really had that experience. But if you just are just truthful and just sharing that truth out to the world, like it's not hard to uh to do it. I know a lot of people they feel like it is, but I I don't feel like it is. And that's like it's it's uh it's something that people the the fear of the acceptance, I think, is the the issue. Um and also like I I feel like that also directly correlates with with their marketing as well. Like when people market them themselves, their business, they have this fear of acceptance. Um, how do we get over that that fear of just putting out stuff to be able to market our business and and get clients? Like, I it's just so funny because people are are like, I'm trying to get more clients, I'm trying to grow my business, but then I'm like, Well, what are you doing? And their output is like two percent.

Control, Isolation, And Trust

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Well, I let me pick up that thread because uh even the word marketing can be off-putting, or uh, you know, in like other things, like like um when my wife hears the word networking, she just she I can see her literally like you know, just closing down, turning into a turtle, like ah, I'm gonna run away. And so I keep trying to tell her. I'm like, let's let's think of it as making new friends, like have some fun, make some new friends, eat some finger food, you know, see what's up. Yeah, um, it doesn't solve it 100%. But I'm wondering in your work with NG, what is the biggest mindset? Because uh, any tool is either the greatest thing or the worst thing, but the mindset uh that you come to that tool with, I mean, this pen is a great classic example, right? I can use it for nothing or for ill or for great good, right? It just depends on what's going on right here. But I'm wondering, what's like the biggest mindset shift that you see in clients who come on board and do that are the most successful using the platform?

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yes, and that would be to stop believing. I don't know who put this out in the water, but like everybody thinks that they need to work on their marketing a little bit every day. And that's just like, who can do that? No one, unless you're unless you're me and like my because my job is to do marketing, but I'm not doing a little bit of marketing every day. I'm spending eight to ten hours a day doing marketing things. Your average small business owner, if they have that mindset of, oh, I'm gonna work on my marketing a little bit every day. How much time is that little bit every day? It oftentimes is I'm gonna try to edit this reel while I'm sitting on the toilet in between meetings. All right, like it's not a productive little bit of time. You call me, all right?

SPEAKER_02 21:48

I don't know. I call that productive time. I call that highly productive time, but that's a it's multitasking to its max, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Um, it's why I have one of those phone soap machines because we To make sure if the phone goes into the bathroom, it comes out clean. But like if you're trying to do your marketing in these like margins of your life where you are multitasking because that's the only time that you have every day, then you're not going to do good quality work.

SPEAKER_04 22:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Because nobody does good quality work when they're trying to cram this big thing into this little space. So the big mindset shift and behavioral shift that NG is really trying to hammer into people is you should have a marketing routine. And, you know, in other words, like we all know how to batch our time. We've heard that phrase time and time again. So that's what it is. It's like, are you gonna spend two hours on Tuesdays doing your marketing thing and be intentional and focused with that time versus you know what we just talked about? So the folks that take that to heart, that is a huge relief for them because it changes so many things about their relationship with marketing. And in the end, that is what needs to happen. Is I have 98% of business owners come up to me and when they hear, oh, I'm a marketing consultant, they go, I hate marketing. I'm like, well, there's your problem. There's your problem. If you hate the thing, you're not gonna do the thing. So we're trying to really not working.

unknown 23:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

Because you only hate something if it ain't working.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Totally. So we're trying to facilitate like this big shift that I I will always recognize it, it is a big shift because getting a human to like change how they do something is not an easy task. But it's not it's not a complicated thing. Like your brain can wrap itself around this concept of hey, stop trying to do this 15 minutes a day and just like pull those 15 minutes over five days into one chunk of time. So that's the that's the really big thing that when folks do it, they start to get their marketing done. And then over time, they're like, oh shit, like my marketing is actually doing something for me.

Authenticity With A Point Of View

SPEAKER_03 24:10

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I I just want to break this down just very simplistic for uh the audience. Because when I got to like actually see behind the scenes of NG, right? The thing that I was like, the light bulb that went off in my head was you need to be doing things that are outreach, right? So as an entrepreneur, if you look at your month and ask yourself, how much outreach did you do in your business? And that's posting, email marketing, that might be messaging, DMs, whatever. You gotta let people know about your thing. Like no matter what, you have to let people know. And this platform helps with that in a very simplistic way. And the other piece is who are you targeting? So that's the other piece about marketing, and that the the foundational piece of it is if you don't know who you're targeting, what your stats are, and why you're even doing it in the first place, like this is the place to start. Just very simplistic. Like it's it's because it maps out exactly who your target persona, and then it'll generate the content for that target persona, which takes a lot of the time out of this, right? That you can just be able to outreach. Um, and so when I saw that, I'm like, this is this is very, very simple. It's very simple for for people to to grasp because marketing gets the word like to Mass Point, it's it's a very kind of a word that's like overwhelming. Because you see also you see some of like bigger companies, they're marketing, they're doing all types of stuff. They have teams and teams and stuff for marketing, but at a small business level, like your outreach and your and your foundation is the only two things you really need to be worried about.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Uh, yeah, you know, I like to talk about marketing as simply being the things we do to make sure people know we exist, yeah. Like just like Matt, how you talked about networking is like, let's go make some new friends. Marketing is just that, and the way a small business or a solopreneur or an agency or a large corporation does that looks different. But at the core, the act, like the whole purpose of it is the same. They're everyone's just trying to make sure that other people know that their business exists. And like small business owners, they also have this weird mindset of like, uh, like, but people are gonna get bothered if I, you know, if I'm always talking about my own stuff. And I'm like, well, Nike and Adidas and Apple and Microsoft, like, they're all talking about their stuff incessantly, and we already know who they are, right? So, like, if they're doing it all the time, shouldn't you also be doing it all the time?

SPEAKER_03 27:02

Yeah, what makes you so special?

SPEAKER_01 27:05

100%. People do think that they're like special and that there's this, you know, checklist of things with marketing that they just need to do once, and then they can just like wash their hands of it. But marketing is an ongoing practice, it's a never-ending experiment, and like you just have to keep going through the motions for as long as you hope to have your business be like operational.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

Yeah, 100%. 100%. Um, I I wanted to uh I wanted to ask. So you guys started a software company. Why did you go software instead of service?

The Big Mindset Shift: Batch Work

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Oh, I mean, because I've done the service thing and there's a capacity problem, right? Like I can only work with so many clients, even if I grew like an agency, that wasn't that wasn't the the way I wanted to do this. Also, you know, not everybody has the budget to be working with a human consultant and hiring them for ongoing services. And so I've I've also been asked a version of this question of like, why didn't you just create a course? And I'm like, because people don't need another course, like there are enough courses out there, I don't need to do that. Um, but what I have always seen is there is this gap in between knowing that you want to do something or even having the plan and getting one from a consultant like me, and then actually doing the plan. Because the perfect plan on paper that never gets done, you might as well have not even gone through the effort to create that plan or work with that consultant. Like if it's your responsibility to do the things. So, in the end, what we wanted to build was something that closed that gap between seeing what it is you need to do and actually getting it done. And um, I didn't want to be everybody's person getting it done because I've been there. That's that's exhausting. And I was like, we need to come up with a new way that really allows business owners to build this muscle for themselves.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

You know, I've I've used Hubspot, I've used uh Go High Level, I've used, oh gosh, I've used a whole bunch of different things. Um, and they are incredible platforms. I mean, talk about bells and whistles. I mean, it's it's uh it's it's overwhelming. But what if what if what if there's like a solopreneur out there who's like they're looking at a package with a setup fee and an$800 a month nut on that, and and but it'll do everything. It's the Starship Enterprise with three other ships around that'll all be working in unison. It's nothing again. I like that your platform, you don't say these are bad platforms, but what you just do such a great job of differentiating. And I, from my own personal experience, it resonated with me when I read it. What are you gonna want to say to the solopreneur out there who's considering which direction to go and has a little bit of FOMO about the all the bells and whistles? What's your advice for an immediate next step that makes the most sense based on your experience?

Outreach, Personas, And Simplicity

SPEAKER_01 30:28

If you didn't go to school for marketing, all those bells and whistles are just gonna sit there and you're not gonna use them because you won't know how to use them. And that's that's fine. That doesn't mean I'm not calling anybody dumb here, but like HubSpot was created for a customer who understands the whole marketing machine at its like most sophisticated level. And if you are a former lawyer, right? Or you know, running a media company, like marketing is not the thing that you understand most deeply, it's the thing you got to do. And as time goes on, you absolutely can get really smart about it. But like we don't all need super complicated tools. And in fact, like a lot of most small business owners, like humans, if something feels too complicated for them, they won't like they can't do complicated humans, don't like that. We like simplicity, and there's also this. I mean, even about NG, we get this piece of feedback every once in a while, which is why we built the social media scheduler only version of the tools. Because some folks would even get into NG and be like, I wasn't using all of the tools. And so, right, like not everybody needs a full toolbox with the fanciest stuff in it. Some people just need a hammer, and some people just need a hammer and a screwdriver and write like one little thing. So that's if anybody is listening and trying to figure out which version they need, like explore them all, but be realistic with yourself. And like, are you just trying, are you just buying into the shiny object because someone or something made you feel like you need the shiny object? But in the end, if you're not going to use it, then you've just burned money.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Speaking of not using it, um you just put out a really comprehensive um small business report, uh, which I'm actually still going through just in all transparency because there's it's it's a lot, it's a lot of information that you put out there. Um, and I I'm finding a lot of it interesting. And then I'm even I'm like some of it, I'm like, oh man, this is just good information, even for for our clients and the people that we we talk to. I'm like, oh, I didn't know this. Um this is it's it's super interesting because it's talking about the state of small business. Um, what is one of the most interesting? Actually, give me two, give me two of the most interesting things out of that report. So that way, as people and you guys uh you guys can go literally on their website and go right to go get the report, but the um those like what are the two most interesting stats from all the data that you pull from small business of the current state right now?

Tools Vs Needs For Solopreneurs

SPEAKER_01 33:35

So this one, I have the report pulled up in because I haven't committed all of the stats to memory yet. I am a human, just like everybody else. But the one that like really shocked me in a not good way is let's see. So it's 67% of small businesses are spending$500 or less a month on their marketing, that's including software. And I was like, dude, that's the hardest way to do this. Yeah, it's a part of the reason why everyone hates marketing, because everyone's trying to do it on a zero dollar budget, but like$500 for all intents and purposes is a zero dollar budget. Um, and there's actually uh eight and eight and a half percent actually said that they were spending zero dollars a month on marketing. So, like, what are you even doing? Like, I don't understand how this works. So um, but the the constructive side of that stat is that small business owners who spend a thousand dollars or more on their marketing were three times as likely to rate their marketing as very or extremely effective. So, like the end, like the moral of the story is make this easier for yourself in some way, shape, or form by investing in software or people or experimenting with different marketing campaigns or ads, right? Like you gotta spend some money. I'm not saying everyone needs a$10,000 a month marketing budget, but you gotta spend something. Um, but the the one that makes the marketing consultant and me the happiest is the fact that the small business owners that have a documented marketing plan, like thinking you know what you're gonna do in your marketing, and if it just lives in your head, like that doesn't count because it's non-transferable. Right. So, but if you have a documented marketing plan, those folks were also three times as likely to rate their marketing as very or extremely effective. And you know, my the way I interpret that is those people see what needs to get done, right? Like they know what needs to get done and when. And so they've set themselves up for success because they're not trying to make these big decisions on the fly when they wake up every morning and decide what real they're gonna edit while they're using the bathroom, right? Like it's not that's not their reality. So it's this very simple thing that people can do to just immediately increase their chances of having better marketing in the long run.

The Small Business Report Findings

SPEAKER_03 36:18

Yeah, yeah. I think uh, and one thing I'm always screaming to the rooftops, especially for small business, small businesses, is you need to build systems in your business. Because you like let's say you're sick for three weeks a month, like is your whole business just gonna literally stop? Or do you like what's your so to your point about the plan? You need a plan and have some some consistency, something repeated that always just happens, right? Like, hey, the social media posts, they always go out, those emails I schedule, they always go out, like it, and then you also need a plan around who who is that going to? What's our voice? What's our brand? Like the the foundational elements, and it's funny because I'll even talk to entrepreneurs that are doing over a million dollars in their business, but they still don't have those foundations, like, or it's changed from the time that they first started, and it's changed. So the foundational element having that plan is just so and I know the strategy that word is I think is another word that's overused and scary for for small bits like a strategy. How much is that gonna cost me? Holy crap!

SPEAKER_02 37:32

But like oh, you wanted a strategy? Yeah, oh you should have told me that's that's the golden platinum plan. Yeah, that's the super platinum plan. You wanted flavor, flavor, okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

But yeah, it's it's uh, but that but that plan is just so you need it, you need it. So if you're if you're doing if you're doing the post in the bathroom, like that better be just something that hits you on top of the plan that you already have, because you that's the only way that's gonna work. So yeah, like you, and that's what small businesses should be working their way towards is more systems, more things that are happening on autopilot, some automation, and some things that like so they can take that out of their head and they just know it's done, right? And so that because it's there's so much noise going on, and so many ideas and problem solving, firefighting a lot of the times as entrepreneurs, and like then when you got to think about oh my god, I didn't post today, it's like you should have done that with the plan that you put out there. So, yeah, it's it's um, I know for a lot of people it's it's hard to grasp your mind around when you first hear it, but this is what you're working towards. You didn't you didn't sign up to just get another job, you signed up to build something that can live and breathe on its own one day, you know. You gotta you gotta kick that kid out the house at some point, just the boot or annoy them so much they run away, one or the other.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

That that'll work too. Uh, I just want to talk about because it can feel really overwhelming, and people do have complicated lives, and we're we're bombarded with responsibilities and media, and everyone in the I mean, if you get on the YouTube uh, you know, endless cycle of experts that are telling you what to do, and it seems contradictory. So it can be overwhelming. I used to have a full head of hair like six months ago, and then I started watching YouTube videos. I don't know what happened. Um, but I just wonder like, what are some of the other myths or what you what you might call defective thinking that's that's that's creating friction for moving forward? Like I like to say, you know, crawl, walk, run. Like, if I have to do one thing well today, what's the one thing I can start doing that gives me progress, that small win that shows me, no, no, no, I can tune out everything else and I know this is the right thing to do. What would be an example of that from your experience?

Systems, Plans, And Consistency

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Yeah. Well, this is gonna be a two-part answer. I'll talk about the one thing that people can do to get there. But the the thing that is like a defective way of thinking that a lot of a lot of folks on the internet are out there making people feel is that they need to be doing more marketing, that they need to be showing up in more places. And that's not realistic. Like just heart, like full stop. It's not realistic for a business owner who is responsible for doing their own marketing to show up in a bunch of places. Like I can do that again because I spend 40 hours a week doing marketing things, and that's why I am in all the places. But if you're like most people and you have uh, I forget the because I haven't committed it to memory, but like I ballpark it at like 25% of small business owners say they have one to five hours a week to work on marketing, right? Like that the math doesn't math there, so you got to get rid of that thinking that more marketing is gonna solve your problem. Because then you just are like spitting out trash and contributing to the noise, right? You're not being intentional about it. Um, but the thing that people can do to figure out what's moving the needle, don't hate me because they're tracking your numbers. I promise you, it's where the answers to your questions live. I don't want to track my numbers, I don't wanna, Taylor. I don't wanna. Trust me, I know that nobody wants to. I used to not want to because I don't have a spreadsheet brain. Like I can highlight some cells to get a sum in a spreadsheet. That's that is just that is literally it. Um, but like that seriously is where you're going to see what's moving the needle. And the one thing that people can start doing today is start to track where their leads are coming from. Like for service-based businesses, that's the language. Like, where are you getting your leads month after month? Are they coming from Google, referrals, social media, right? What are the marketing things that you're doing? And then just freaking start with a piece of paper and tally it. Like you can use NG, but like if you're just starting to do this, please just do something. Um, if you're a product-based business, you know, where are your customers finding you? Right again. And once you have like three months of these numbers tracked, you're gonna see a pattern. And you're going to like actually see where you have marketing momentum. And guess what? Then you know with confidence, that's where I should be showing up and spending the majority of my time, money, and effort. And for a lot of folks, they put this like way too much pressure to show up on Instagram. We'll just call it what it is. Like everyone's so freaked out about I need to be on Instagram and I need to be on TikTok. Like, hey, if you don't get leads from those places, then you can simplify your plan to show up in those spaces.

SPEAKER_03 43:15

100% great advice. Great advice. We're gonna do so. Think to uh in closing, I think what we're gonna do is we're gonna do a rapid fire really quick with you. I'm gonna put Matt on the spot. Um, so I'll ask three questions. Matt will ask two, and we'll go back and forth, and we're just gonna rapid fire some questions. Now, the questions can be literally anything. So I'll kick it off just so that way Matt's uh, you know, he can I literally running start so I can pick up the scraps.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

I mean I can pick up the scraps. So that way you can that's the time of thing. So Taylor, what's the solution for life? Go ahead.

Myths, Focus, And Tracking

SPEAKER_03 43:54

Hey, that's a great question. It can totally be that. Um so the first one is. Gonna be top three favorite movies of all time.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Ooh, top three favorite movies: Forrest Gump, Band of Brothers, and some stupid pot humor movie. There's too many to count.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Nice. Nice. Go ahead, Matt. You're gonna get you. We gotta get you Tom Hanks. It seems like he's right there. I know. I have a soft spot for Tom Hanks. All right, this is crazy. I is I actually asked this on my other show sometimes. Um, so what's your least favorite breakfast food?

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Ooh, least favorite? I mean, probably like uh frittata.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

Oh, frittata. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

I feel torn on the fritata. Yeah. I want quiche.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

If I'm gonna I want quiche or omelet, not fritata.

SPEAKER_02 44:50

Okay. Give me the crust, give me the good stuff. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

Um what what is uh one trend right now that you think is going to fade out, and one trend that is going to um continue to grow um when it comes to marketing right now?

SPEAKER_01 45:09

Oh, I thought you were just talking about in life. I was like, that means that I would have to know what the trends are that you can start into.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

Just in marketing, just in marketing. That's that's you know, current right now. Um that's gonna die up. It's gonna stick around the one that's gonna that's gonna blow up.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

The one that I think is gonna blow up is the trend. Well, I don't even know if this is a trend, but like the the AEO stuff, the optimizing your shit for the chat bots to recommend you. I don't think that that is going anywhere. That's where human behavior is changing in mass. So we gotta pay attention to that. The trend that I think is gonna go away. You know, I don't know about that one. I've not thought about that. What's the trend that's gonna go away? Can I get back to you on this?

SPEAKER_03 45:59

Hey, Matt, I'm the first one to stumper, by the way. Yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 46:03

Hopefully, your question will stumper as well.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

No, mine's gonna be far less interesting than yeah, we'll we'll come back to that. We'll come back to that. Don't tell a lawyer to try and come up with questions that are gonna stump someone. I mean, that puts me in a whole different lane, okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Uh, can I say that dancing on dancing in TikToks is gonna go away?

SPEAKER_03 46:24

You think so? Okay, really? Dancing on TikTok. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Like, I think that people, I mean, like my question, my thought on that is like, why? Everybody's seen it a hundred million bazillion times at this point. So, like, it's gonna, I think you're gonna have to, I think we are going to have to come up with new ways of like grabbing people's attention visually, and it's not just gonna be I think we're gonna we're gonna like shock and all is gonna unfortunately be the backside of that trend dying.

Rapid Fire And Closing Calls

SPEAKER_02 46:54

It's hard to imagine it ever going away completely, but I think that's not what you're saying. You're saying the trend of it being like the thing is gonna diminish. Yes, yeah, that's probably true. All right. What's your look? You're a marketing expert. You were already into marketing before you started NG. What does what has building NG and working with customers taught you about marketing that you didn't know before? Oh, that I didn't know before.

SPEAKER_03 47:18

But what, man?

SPEAKER_02 47:20

And that's a show. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you for doing it. We're out next time.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Yeah. Um, you know, I'll say this is more of a personal experience than like working with with customers. The thing that has that I've learned that was hard for me to learn kind of is like honing in on a niche, niche, however you say it, because that's one of the pieces of advice that everyone's gonna tell you, like find your niche. And I got a lot of feedback about who NG's niche should be. And I was always like, no, that's not, that's not it. Um, and so because people were saying, like, oh, you should just be marketing software for like wedding planners or for lawyers or for and like picking a business type. And I was like, that's not the point of this. Like, our niche is the problem that we're trying to solve. And the problem transcends the type of business that people have. So the thing about marketing that I learned is kind of that like there's a lot of really bad advice that people will give you, like, really with a lot of enthusiasm. And that it's really hard to look people dead in the eye as a very emotive person and like not have my face go like this, like that's terrible. I'm not gonna do that.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Years and years and years of being told you have to be disruptive. Yes, yeah, disruptive doesn't mean it was right, just because you went against it.

SPEAKER_03 49:03

You know, 100%. 100%. All right. Last question is what is one marketing campaign that you've recently seen that has blown your mind?

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Oh, that's blown my mind? Shit, you guys are asking hard questions. That's what we do. Oh this one also is like uh oh fuck. I know that there was a there was a commercial that I saw, and I was like, oh, I see, I see. Oh, was it was it Salesforce? And they had like this purple superhero guy in the commercial, and it was like B2B.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

Oh that sounds familiar. Hold on.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

The tagline in that commercial, I was like, oh, that's good. I wish I was the murderer that came out.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

Agent Force AI? Is that the agent for with Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson? Is that it?

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Salesforce.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

I think you're onto something here.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:10

But it was definitely a Salesforce campaign.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

I'm pretty sure it was Salesforce.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

We might have to look it up and give people an update in the show notes as to what it was.

SPEAKER_03 50:22

Um, yeah, if you find info on it, shoot it over, especially for the clip.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

I'll find it. I'll I'll tell you one um recently that I saw. Now I I was a former hip-hop artist, so I I always have this uh affinity to artists and how they promote themselves. One that I found fascinating was this guy that's blowing up right now that he created. So having a street team has been around for forever, you know, having a like a core group of people just promote your music. But what he created, I believe is one of the first, I've never seen anybody else do it, but um, he got a group of about 15 people, and he creates videos with these same 15 people over and over singing the hooks in different places, spaces, and then each one of those people have their own TikTok accounts, and then they are also promoting the music, so they're just like doing just random different things. Some stuff is highly produced, some stuff is not, and it's just like and random. So I'll even send it to you. But I found it fascinating because he's blowing up because he's creating what 15 plus himself, so 16 accounts, all promoting the same thing of interesting, dynamic videos, and it's it's starting to take off, and he's doing it now. So he released his first song, now he's doing his next song with the same format, and now those people are getting big with their own kind of personal brands, but it's just promoting this guy's stuff, this guy's music. I thought it was genius. I'm like, this is crazy! Like, what a great way to like maximize the use, right? Of people that already like you, they love your music, they want to see you succeed, and they're part of the journey. Like, it's oh my god, it was just so good. So good. So I'll I'll shoot that over to you. I'll shoot that over to you. Um, man, Taylor, this has been great having you um on the show. Uh just I feel like you've really poured a lot into people of the truths about marketing and how to position themselves and just also how to get out of their own heads and out of their own way. Um, guys, in the link, we will have um a place where you can find out more about NG. But how can how can people find out and get connected to you, uh, Taylor?

SPEAKER_01 52:45

Yeah, um, I'm a geriatric millennial. So Instagram is the social media platform that you'll find me on. Don't try to find me on TikTok. Um, but NG's Instagram account is E N J I underscore C O. And then if you want the spicier version of Taylor, who also likes to play outside and get into some shenanigans. My personal Instagram account is Taylor Designs, T-A-Y-L-R-D underscore designs.

SPEAKER_03 53:13

Sweet. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. Um, absolutely like it was an absolute pleasure to have you uh here on the show. Matt, your first, your first one.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

Like hopefully not first and last, you know. I mean, we'll see. Taylor, it's an honor. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. It's been fun, it's been a it's been a blast and great to be here.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

Yeah, thank you both. This is super, super fun. This is the the best way to kick off my day.

SPEAKER_03 53:38

Cool, cool. Well, guys, if you're listening in um and or watching, please like, comment, subscribe to the Forever Podcast and all the different places and spaces that we're at. And I always tell people, like the people that I have on the show, please reach out to them, get connected. Like, this is not just for you to listen and do nothing. You have to take action and really be about it. And these people are reachable, okay? You just have to shoot your shot, send a message. Uh, and don't forget the one, the most important things is that if you change your circle, you can change your life. So thank you so much, Taylor. Matt, you still you're still employed. You're still here. We did an awesome job. And guys, we'll catch you on the next episode. Peace. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe. And don't forget to hit that notification bell for more amazing content that we're going to be putting out. And don't forget, you can change your circle to change your life.