Hot Takes with Hannah Holt: Sharing Your Income Online

In this new episode series, Alex Hirsch of Signs of our Lives and Hannah Holt of Tally Mark Calligraphy share their hot takes on sharing your income online. 

With the underlying principles of “a rising tide lifts all ships,” they discuss how sharing your income online can be beneficial AND how it could be misleading to other business owners and artists (or give people the ick).

Alex and Hannah talk about price transparency, revenue versus profit, and the nuances of why and how you should and shouldn’t share your income publicly. 

Is six figures all it’s cracked up to be? What do you even want for your life and your business? Does the struggling artist stereotype need to be broken? Tune in for the *nuance!*

FTC Laws

Hannah Holt, Tally Mark Calligraphy
IG: https://www.instagram.com/tallymarkcalligraphy/
Website: www.tallymarkcalligraphy.com

Transcript

Hi everyone and welcome back to Keeping Up With The Calligraphers. Today is a very special episode because I have a guest with me. This is Alex by the way, in case you couldn't differentiate the voices. This is Alex of Signs For Our Lives and I am very excited to be doing a little mini series with my new Instagram friend who's hopefully an IRL friend too, Hannah Holt of Tally Mark Calligraphy who is also an event calligrapher and does so much more as well. Hannah, welcome!

Hey, I'm so excited to be here. Super excited for a little mini series. Thanks for having me here.

Amazing. Did you want to tell anyone where you're from, any other things that you do, or do you feel like Event Calligrapher kind of sums it up?

No, I could go into a little bio for you if you'd like. I am originally from Baltimore, Maryland. I moved out to Las Vegas, Nevada about seven years ago. I came out here to work at the circus, medical staff, and I ended up turning calligraphy into a full-time job in 2022. So I've been working full-time as an artist, doing live calligraphy, a little bit of event and wedding calligraphy. And this year, 2025, I'm adding murals to that list. So I'm a live calligrapher and a muralist as of now.

Amazing! I love it! Yeah, we love a diversified income stream. And as many of us know, you can't just be doing one thing usually. You gotta have a bunch of things up your sleeve. Okay, so I'm gonna introduce the series, which we are calling Hot Takes with Hannah Holt.

So excited.

The alliteration is like pristine. I love it.

No, it's literally perfect. I love it. So this is a fun mini series we thought of and the goal of it is to start conversations, bring different perspectives to the table that maybe things being talked about online, maybe not. And we want to do it in a way that's loving. As always, as you know, if you've listened to Keeping Up With The Calligraphers before, there's no one way to live your life. There's no one way to run your business. And so this is just like a fun addition to our regular series of just like topics that relate to event calligraphy and event artistry, but aren't directly specifically talking about event things.

So our topic today after we introduce a little miniseries is sharing your income online. And I really wish I could come up with like one of those little sounds that's like, da-da-da.

I was actually just thinking, as you're presenting it, I was like, what kind of sound effect can I add to this? And I was like, I'm going to make a fool of myself. I cannot.

Just add one in with your vocals. Okay, so this came up, Hannah and I were just chatting about some things. I think if we were initially talking about, we were talking about end of year recaps and stuff like that. And so one of the things that came up was sharing your income. And I was like, I don't want to share my income and Hannah was like, no, like we should all be sharing our income. And we had a little voice memo exchange and it was super cute.

And I think Hannah had a lot of great ideas. I agree with a lot of those ideas. We'll see where we're both at by the end of this conversation. But I think again, we're not in opposition with each other here. We just both have like different things to say and thought that people could hear it because it's fun and we're all thinking about this stuff. So Hannah, what are some reasons that you feel artists, business owners, creatives could share their income online?

So I really am pro salary transparency in any industry. It really started back when I was working as an athletic trainer in the allied health field. Generally speaking, athletic trainers are underpaid. And I think when you would talk with other fellow colleagues and you're learning what other people are making, you're like, I should be asking for a raise. This is insane. Other people are making more money.

And I generally feel that when you're quiet about your salary and when people feel uncomfortable talking about that, it promotes inequity and inequality within industries. And people are just stuck making less money than they should be because they're afraid to ask for more and they just think they're making enough when really other people in their same positions are making more and they should be asking for it. So on that note, as an artist specifically, and specifically with live event artists, a lot of what we charge, and particularly with art, it's a lot of value based. We have like supplies and hours and concrete stuff that we can put numbers to, but when it comes down to it, a lot of it is value based and it's like, what is my product worth? And a lot of that time you just have to compare that to the rest of the people in your industry and you can't do that if you don't know what other people are making.

So I think it's super important to share that so that we can provide a baseline for what people should be making in the industry. A rising tide lifts off ships. So if we're all sharing what we're charging, what we're making, we can raise the general salary of live event artists and artists in general so that we can all kind of squash that struggling artist stereotype of like, mentality, yeah.

You know, I'm doing my art and I'm not making that much money because I'm struggling artist and we don't need to be because art is valuable and what we provide is a unique and valuable piece of service and we need to be charging a little.

100%. And I agree with all of those things. I used to be a teacher and as people across the country and the world knows that teachers are just always underpaid. So I totally feel that. I've always had like price transparency in that profession. And it feels a little bit different being like a creative business owner. And I think it's like for a few reasons.

Because I would love to know, like I love when people post like what they made, right? However, then I go, wait, but like, where is the context? Because I think it's so important when you post like, I made this, right? Like, let's say you made 10K in a month, right? I'm like, my God, amazing, you made 10K. Like that was your top line revenue, sales, profit, yeah. And then, okay, well, what did you actually like pocket because you could have made 10K, right? But you paid $8,000 of that to people that you subcontracted. You paid $1,000 of that to supplies and shipping costs. And so you actually only profited $1,000. But then it kind of gives the wrong impression to people who you're sharing that with, Of like, I made 10K. And it's like, well, okay, cool. Love that for you. And what about the other costs that come in with it?

And I think it kind of goes back to something that I've said before, which I always like to talk about lattes because I'm always drinking lattes. And they're, they're expensive. They're expensive fucking everywhere. And everyone's like, why are they so expensive? And it's like, why am I paying $8 for a latte? Well, you're not paying $8 because it costs $8 for a latte. And this is where it goes back to like you talking about the value thing, right? Like, you're having someone, it's the labor, right? And what is that labor worth? What is it worth for you to be in a coffee shop that's cute as shit and Instagramable or whatever, and provides you a space to work and have wifi, right?

So I think that's really important. Like when sharing online is to provide the context. And this is a whole other episode, but I frequently see this with like coaches, like wellness coaches, lifestyle coaches, and even business coaches who are like, you can make this much money. I made this much money. And you're like, so cool. Let's think of like, you know, someone who is a photographer, right? Like, and they're also educating on photography. Did you make that money? Like, did you say that you made six figures from, you just made six figures as a photographer? Or did you say you made six figures from a photographer, doing photography and doing photography business coaching, right? Like,

That's what I wanna know when you say those things, because I'm like, when you're promoting that to other people, you're making people think like, oh, I could do that too, right? So like, if I'm a photographer and I wanna take your course, I'm like, oh my God, she made 100K. Like, I would love to make 100K. And then to actually find out, oh, just kidding, half of that came from her teaching about the services. Like, that's where I feel like, I'm not sure about the price transparency or actually maybe.

We need more transparency. Like, it's not just about the number, it's about the context behind the number. I totally agree. I think that it's, you need to put context, because a very nuanced discussion of like, like you're saying in these indices, people do have diversified incomes, like how much of that money is coming from what you're saying you're doing and what of it is coming from all these extra things that you're doing. And I think it can be really misleading on what that number actually means. So alongside of your diversified income, like you said, how much of that did you actually profit from? Like how much do you actually get to take home and pay your personal bills? How much do you get to pay for your groceries? Like that number is just as important as the revenue number.

And so I really, I agree. I think that like being fully transparent in that number is more important than just being like, made six figures this year and like that's awesome. But like that number by itself is amazing and everyone should celebrate it. Like you're saying that 10K month, celebrate it. That's huge. It's valuable. But also what does that number really mean? You put the data behind it. Where did it come from? How much of it do you actually get to take home to your family, to your, you know, to your living expenses, to your life really. And then like what did you actually do to get that money? Because I think diversified income is so important, but also if you're saying you're doing one thing and you're like, look how successful I am, but really lot of your money came from this extra thing, it means something different. And it's no less valuable. It's just, you just want to make sure that you're getting the correct message across so that your audience, whoever you're posting this for, whether it be other people in the industry who are trying to make it.

Whether it be your clients to show how valuable and successful your business is, really thinking about why you're posting about this, why you're talking about this, and making sure that that correct message gets delivered.

Literally, yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth. I feel like these conversations are gonna be hard, because we're gonna be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're done.

Yeah, agree.

Yeah, no, I think that's like so important too. I want to highlight you said, who are you posting for and why?

It's so important for any social media posting or any sort of marketing thing, thinking about who it's for. And it could be for many different people depending on the post, but it's so important to think about that.

Right. And like every platform's different, right? Like, so I'm thinking specifically Instagram right now. Like that's my kind of perception when we're talking about this stuff, because I think that's where people usually post those things. Maybe I'm just like not cool enough to be in whatever Facebook things people are chatting about.

I'm with you. Anyway, I feel like such a millennial that way.

Also, yeah, like we all have our own For You page. So I don't see anyone talking on like TikTok or like LinkedIn putting their income reports on LinkedIn.

No, I mean that would actually be kind of interesting.

Maybe we need to infiltrate LinkedIn because that's where a lot of the gatekeeping probably happens, corporate old LinkedIn.

Corporate Old LinkedIn!

So, okay, back to our point. I think it's so important. Like, I think we're talking about Instagram specifically right now, right? That's where all the these people are posting that shit. I personally, for me, I know the people who follow me are my clients, are people that are potential clients and are people that I'm like friends with. So for me personally, I like a hundred percent don't feel a need to post my income online because I don't think it would create any value to those people. I totally think it's so cool to see it. Like if I'm following another calligrapher, for instance, who is like an educator or a coach or whoever who's like sharing their little like, I love when they do the little breakdown videos, right? Where they're like, this is what I made and this is how my expenses were and this is what I profited. Like those are fucking awesome.

But like that's not for me personally. Do you feel like, what do you feel for you?

I feel pretty mixed on it because I agree. I would say the bulk of my followers are clients, potential clients, and then colleagues. And then, and that's within my industry and outside of my industry, but I coincide with them. So working with event planners, PR agencies, photographers, florists, et cetera. And so that's like other coworkers and colleagues. And I think I am a bit torn, which like after a conversation the other day, was feeling a bit torn about, of thinking about like, okay, why am I posting this? Number one, I felt like I wanted to post it because it was a major win for me. And I was like, hey, I like got to a financial goal. And I think it's really important to celebrate our wins no matter who you're telling. And I think it's, I think it's valuable, particularly for women to own that and be like, I fucking did this. This was a cool thing that I did. And I'm going to celebrate it with my fellow colleagues, coworkers, friends, whoever. And I think that's super important. But also, the second reason I would want to post it is I do have a lot of people who are starting out in the industry or fellow coworkers outside of calligraphy that don't have an idea of what calligraphy costs.

And while I'm not showing what I charge, I'm at least demonstrating the value of like, this is a high ticket item that number one, a lot of people wanted. I got a lot of clients, a lot of people hired me. This is a thing that you want to be hiring me for. And number two, I'm good at it. Like clearly I'm like this kind of breaks that like I did the thing and like this shows the value of my company, which I was thinking about this today of like these other larger businesses show like you can look up what their revenue and what their their monetary value is. And it does demonstrate the value of a company.

Hell yeah!

And so thinking about myself as a business, there is some merit to showing that like I'm a pretty valuable company or a valuable company. We're not making millions here, but you know, I did a thing. But you you do get,

Let me know when you do, because I would love to follow whatever business plan that is.

I’ll give everyone the secrets, no gatekeeping here. But I do get tripped up on the client end of like, and even I think as a woman, you're like, am I bragging? Am I like trying to be too showy? Am I being pretentious? Am I trying to like rub it in people's faces? And like, the answer is no, like that's not where my motive comes from. Like I'm not trying to say like, look, I'm so rich. Spoiler alert, I'm not rich. My profit was much lower.

So I think it's just that, you know, checking the motive, checking on who, checking yourself on why you're posting it, who's it for. And I think like having, like you're saying, like it wouldn't, with your following and what you're trying to do, it doesn't quite match up and align with what you're trying to provide. And for me, I think in some cases, again, with the full context, I think it could be useful and valuable. And also there's nothing wrong with just being like,

This is a win and I want to share it with everybody because I feel awesome about it. So that's like a little permission for everybody else. If you feel like posting it because you feel like it's a win you want to share, I think you should.

Yeah, I think.

100%. That's also so true. think, well, I think we overthink. Because it's like, we're like, my God, this strategy, this audience, this whatever. I think it's important sometimes to just be like, fuck it. this is, you know, as you said, with pricing transparency or like salary transparency, if you don't have that, it's a tool of oppression, right? And so, we fucking deserve to share it and celebrate our wins if we hit a goal that we were trying to hit, right? So I think that could look like so many things.

And I will say, like there are certain times where it has been motivating when you see someone who's like, I actually was having this conversation the other day. They were like, you doing stuff all the time, like provides me with like a motivation to like, do a little bit more in my business. And I was like, I love that that is your take. like their take wasn't, wow, like, fuck you, you're getting all this business or like, I'm jealous or anything like that. It was just like, wow, like you're doing a lot. Like I want to do a lot. I want to do things. And we have totally separate businesses. Like they're a muralist and like do stuff that I don't even do. And like I obviously do events and stuff. And so that was just so nice to hear because I think too, like sharing what you do online, sharing what you make online, it can provide like almost like the sense of empowerment for people to be like, oh my God, like they're doing it. Like I can do that too. And honestly, that's what I've said. That's like my like joke with everything. Like if I can fucking do it guys, you can do it. If I can have a podcast, if I can like own a business you guys can do it. I swear.

Exactly, I am not the exception. Like, if I could do it, you could do it. Truly.

Yeah, like it's hard, there's challenges, like I'm not here to say there aren't barriers to doing this thing. And like you could do it. And I think that's like another reason that I think would be really cool.

No, I really liked that discussion on, first of all, that's awesome that somebody like was able to validate that experience of like, when I see you doing like all this stuff, it encourages me to do a bunch of stuff. And I think that is always the goal. And I think that's what we're like, that's how you reveal your people and your community. I was actually talking to a bunch of friends about this last weekend of

Like when you start to feel that sense of like jealousy or resentment towards, and we were specifically talking about like friends, like when you start to feel jealous or resentment towards friends, I have to check myself. Like that's not what a supportive community is. A supportive community is lifting each other up, being stoked for other people's wins, regardless of if they're better than yours, quote unquote, or like, you know, you feel like your friends are being more successful than you, whatever that means.

It should always be support and love and respect and excitement. And when you start to feel that jealousy, you gotta check yourself, okay, why am I feeling this? Am I feeling this because I know I should be doing more work and I'm not? Are my feeling resentment because they're getting the things that I want, but what am I doing to get those things? And I think that is a really important discussion of if people do start to, like, show their colors in that where there's like resentment and jealousy, I don't think it's your people. I mean, I think a supportive community is uplifting and excited and encouraging and inspired by each other, like in both directions. So I think that's like an interesting thing to think about when you start posting those wins and you start seeing how people are responding to them.

Yeah, I was thinking about that too with posting. Like that would be a reason I wouldn't wanna post again because of my audience. Because like I'm not trying to invoke like negative feelings for anyone. And at the same time, you know, the therapy brain in me says, well, that's not your fucking responsibility. Like people are gonna feel how they're gonna feel. And like that's not on you to make everyone feel good or for everyone to like you or whatever.

Yeah, exactly.

I get really stuck in that because it's like, what are people going to think about me? But the thing is that like, if you don't post your income, if you're not transparent about your salary, people are going to be like, Alex is always doing all these things and she's never telling us what she's making. And if you post it, people are going be like, I can't believe she posted it. It's like she's bragging. You know what mean? Like you're going to have haters regardless. So like stay true to you, do what feels authentic to you and your people will be there. Like I think that's...

It's hard to remember. I get stuck in it all the time. I'm constantly worried about what other people are thinking about me. we'll get there. Of course.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's a work of progress. Like none of us are saying we're perfect here.

And yeah, I think it's just, it's the misper And I think that's where it comes back to like going back to why are you posting it? Who's your target audience for this? providing that transparency. And I think that's the biggest takeaway for me out of this conversation is

How did you make the money you're making? What is your actual profit? Right? so it's really cool to hit a certain number. Like, I'll just go out and say it. Like the past two years I've made over six figures and I'm hooked about it. And at the same time, I know

it's like an arbitrary number because I'm like six figures could be like a hundred K. It could also mean 999 K. So I'm like, it's really cool. No, no, I fucking wish.

You make $500? Good girl, get it.

But I'm also like, I live in San Diego, like, do I have a choice? Do I have a choice?

I think that's it. Yeah. So true. Yeah, that's so accurate. Like the other part of it is just like your environment. Like 100K is different in San Diego than it is in, I can't even compare Las Vegas anymore. We're getting, I mean, there we go. Oklahoma, Iowa, ya know, like somewhere like a smaller town or somewhere with like a lesser cost of living. Like it just, goes far. It goes much less far. So yeah, I mean, just like you're saying, I think the main takeaway is just it's about full transparency and just being like really authentic about where it's coming from, how much you actually get to take home. And then being like, hey, also like this is in San Diego, this is in Las Vegas, this is in, and that number just means the relative number is just like way different.

Yeah, it has such a different weight to it depending on where you are. And then again, depending on how much you actually profited off of that. you know, I had some, I spent money on a lot of services last year for other people to put my website together and I'm currently spending money on, like I just bought a new laptop because I haven't bought one in like six years, seven years, whatever. Yeah, like things like that where it's well, you're still spending money because you like need to do things. So you got to invest in the business. Spending money is important, but it doesn't mean that your profit is less. So you're, you you have less money to buy groceries and get a drink somewhere. Girl, you have to buy groceries. No joke around here.

Yes. Those $10, those $10 eggs and $10 groceries or lattes.

Seriously. Okay, so there's one other thing that I wanted to share too, was just for anyone listening, really, and I think you already know this, but just in case people don't know, there is some sort of thing, and I'm not a fucking expert on this, so please do not like take what I say, like take what I say with a grain of salt. But there are some like FTC laws that if you are posting, what you're making and things like that, or doing any sort of like sales, like you can make this too. There are laws like in place that are technically supposed to be, making sure that people aren't like lying about things, like saying that they made this, but they actually made this sort of thing. And you're allowed to ask those things.

So I did like do a little Google search and I'm gonna share what AI said because I feel like it's important. I have heard of this, like there are some laws in effect to protect consumers in that way. And then also on the other side of that, talking about what the industry standard is. I know in some states or some things like, can't establish what the industry standard is. So just like being careful using that language, you know, a common salary or a common rate for people in this industry instead of being like industry standard. You know, look at your laws, we're not lawyers.

We're not lawyers.

No, I think that's actually such a good point too, because I think that was a conversation that was like, I think it was like October, November, that was like heavy on Instagram and people were chatting about that. And it was like, you have to charge at least a hundred an hour for it to be an event calligrapher or whatever. And it was like, whoa guys.

Yeah. Yeah.

Wait a minute. Pump the brakes.

Yeah, like we can't be saying any shoulds or like you need to or anything like that. It's like, well, we recommend, like that would be cool.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

Do you have some some details for us on the FTC stuff?

Shit, yeah, I did say I was gonna share that, didn’t I? Okay, so it said there's guidelines for social media influencers to use simple language like ad or sponsored, which I think everyone knows that, but if you don't, this is, if anyone's sharing any like links or anything, they should always say like sponsored, ad, you know, what's it called? Affiliate link. And they can't make up claims about a product that would require proof. So like you can't make up data or research, and any sort of sellers of business opportunities. So rules on deceptive earnings claims like investment opportunities, business coaches can't make material misrepresentations about earnings and must have written substantiation to back up any earnings and provide this, make a substantiation available to consumers if requested.

So I think that's basically saying people are allowed to ask you if you say you posted six figures, okay, hi, please tell us how you made that. Yeah.

And you send that over. Right. Or if you're telling me that by doing your course, I can also make six figures, give me the data. Ask for the data for anything. Gosh, data. Data. I guess I data. Yeah, I think I do.

Yes. As for the data. Oh, you say data. say data. Ooh. Data, data, data.

I don't know where that comes from, because we're both from the East Coast. Yeah, so I think that's like, that's important too. I don't know if anyone's bold enough to be asking any of these people for the data or the data or tomato, tomato. Yeah. You're like, so I looked into these FTC laws that Alex shared online. Yeah, I don't, I personally wouldn't be like, hey, sup girl, share those profits and revenue.

I know, weird.

But it is something as a consumer or someone who's about to buy a product or whatever if someone's trying to sell something to you. Like that's something that's important. Okay, I think that pretty much sums it up. I think the important thing again, the highlight key detail of all of this is be transparent, provide context, like know the why, the how, the who, the why.

I love that. I am pro being transparent. Should I be transparent about my numbers? I do I do it? Celebrate. Last year was a big year for me. Didn't expect it. So last year I made $105,000 and my pro was $71,000. It was really unexpected. I was shooting for 80K and the universe supplied. It was pretty amazing.

Go for it. Get it, girl. Let's celebrate. Woohoo!

And other context, I'm in Las Vegas. My husband and I are both self-employed. So it's expensive. Health care is no joke. So our profit dollars go a little bit less far because we're both self-employed. So yeah, that's the breakdown.

So when I was able to compare those numbers, I was able to like, bring reality back to myself of like, oh, like, of course, like everybody wants more money, but like, I don't need it. Like that's where I am when it comes to like finances is like, of course I want more money, but that's not the goal of my business. The goal is to have control of my life and be able to do what I want, particularly cause you know, my husband and I are both self-employed. So being able to like have that schedule to be able to see each other is optimum.

Yeah, that's like unmeasurable. And I think that is also, I think, a great key takeaway is that like, why do you wanna hit a certain number? I definitely have done that to myself for a few years of like, why do I even wanna hit six figures? It's like this fun thing to say. And then like I hit it a couple of years ago and then I was like, wait, I like feel…

What does this mean? It's an arbitrary thing.

It meant nothing. It meant nothing.

It is. And so I think that's like another thing, too, is like, what's the goal here? Like, do you get to put more in savings? Do you get to go on vacation now? Do you get to live your life with freedom now? Like, and I think it's so important, like, what's your journey? What is it actually all for? That's at the end of the day.

That's the important part. What it all comes down to.

I'm still figuring that out. TBD. I went to a museum this past weekend. That was a big one for me.

That's cool, what museum do go to?

Well, maybe not a museum. I went to Balboa Park and I went to the botanical garden. Sorry, I went to a garden, but the the museums are all around and there's just pretty architecture. Yeah. So. Yeah, for sure. No, I was like so proud of myself. I was like, I did something other than work this weekend. Look at me go. Yeah. Exactly. live in life, live in la vida loca. I don't even know what that means, but I just said it.

Huh. That counts. Yeah. That's like an exhibit of sorts.

That's great! See? That's what I'm about. Live in your life! Livin’ la vida loca!

I think it means like live in the crazy life. Live in... live in the crazy life?

That makes sense actually. Yeah, I need to do more work on Duolingo clearly. Add it to the list. Add it to the list. Okay, well, yeah, so those are the key takeaways I think. And I don't have anything else to add other than I still, think I'm at the point where I'm not gonna share it online just because I don't think it's worth it for me. Where are you at?

Yeah. I think I'm kind of still torn on it. I think if the mood strikes me and it feels right, it feels good to share it here, celebrate with a positive and very supportive group of people. But yeah, think if the time is right, will make sense for me.

Yeah, I love that. And I think that's a great message for everyone because do it if it feels right and if it doesn't and it feels icky, then don't fucking do it.

Exactly. Do what feels authentic to you. Be fully transparent when you can be. And tell your friends to ask for more money.

All right, well, on that note, thank you everyone for keeping up. I hope you love this mini series. I hope that we can bring you more more often. Hannah, thank you so much for coming on for this. 

This was so much fun. I love a hot take. I would love to hear if other people have hot takes that they'd like us to talk about. So like send your submissions in, DM, keeping up with calligraphers, give us your hot takes. Because I love a controversial topic. Let's talk about it lovingly and respectfully.

Yes, lovingly and respectfully, of course, absolutely. All right, well, thank you everyone for keeping up. You know where to find us. It's all in the show notes. I'll actually link the FTC laws too in the, now that I'm thinking about it, just cause I have a little link over here. And again, thanks for keeping up. Bye.