True Life: We're Workaholics

Bringing it back MTV style, Alex of Signs of our Lives and Cat of Cat Lauren Calligraphy go into their personal journeys of being a little bit too into their work; to the point where it at times takes a toll on their physical and mental health.

They chat about hustle culture, the need to always be productive, and how society promotes the idea that your self-worth is tied to your financial success. And in the same vein, how difficult it is to say "no" to things when you love your clients and the work you do.

They emphasize the need to shift their mindsets about their innate value, and the need to shift their personal behavior patterns to incorporate some balance in their businesses and their personal lives.

Transcript

Cat (00:10)
Welcome back everybody to the Keeping Up With The Calligraphers podcast. This is Cat of Cat Lauren Calligraphy and I'm here with...

Alex Hirsch (00:17)
in the episode Signs Our Lives.

Cat (00:20)
And I don't know when this episode is gonna drop. We are currently on hiatus and we're coming back and this is our first episode recording, but I don't know if we're gonna drop this first, if this is just gonna drop in the middle, because who knows? Not us, that's not how we roll. And if you are not new here, you know that. But if you are new here, now you know. And yeah.

Alex, do you want to tell the people that are new what this podcast is and who it's for and all the things?

Alex Hirsch (00:51)
Yeah, so Cat and I are both event calligraphers, meaning that we bring our calligraphy and our art forms to events in the form of engraving, foiling, painting, wood burning, And this podcast is basically for people who do the same thing as well as other art forms. So for instance, leather bars, watercolor portraits, illustrations. Yeah. ⁓

Cat (01:14)
Illustration. Embroidery.

Alex Hirsch (01:17)
Exactly. So

we just named a bunch of art forms that people have figured out a way to bring them to events and we're hoping that by sharing all the things that we've gone through people can learn from us and hopefully either add events to their current service offerings or to kind of fine-tune the event service offerings that they already have.

Cat (01:41)
hopefully they just feel less lonely too, because I know when we first started, it was really hard to find other people doing the same thing. It was really hard to find answers to a lot of the stuff that we were experiencing. so unfortunately, but fortunately, we've really gone through it over the last eight, nine years, however long it's been at this point, almost a decade, which is crazy.

But yeah, hopefully you won't feel alone in like the struggles or you won't be like, I the only one that doesn't know this? Because let's be clear, I probably don't.

Alex Hirsch (02:04)
Thank you.

on that note, we do love our work so much. And we love talking about our work so much. Obviously, we made a podcast about it so that we can yap more about our work. goodness. And so today's episode was prompted by a trip that me, Alex, made to Europe in October of 2025.

Cat (02:21)
You

Alex Hirsch (02:35)
And I had shared something on my stories of not just being out of office, but the struggle of like getting to out of office. And if you have listened to season one and two, you know that Cat and I both struggle with boundaries, with saying no to things, with compromising a little bit too much, with saying yes to a little too much, because we really do love.

what we do. Some might call it an addiction, and we don't use that term lightly. We know exactly what addiction means in terms of that it's something that you sabotage your own life for, right? ⁓ And time and time again we have both done that, and to the point where Alex here has burned themselves out many a time and Cat can't really speak for you, but I'm pretty sure she's

Cat (03:27)
We know

I've been in a constant state of burnout for years, just at varying degrees.

Alex Hirsch (03:34)
Yeah,

I'm like, listen, we giggle about it because I mean, why not giggle about it? It happens to so many.

Cat (03:40)
as we like to

be unserious about even serious topics.

Alex Hirsch (03:45)
Yes, and also, otherwise we'd just be crying and in a state of despair and we can't do that because then we wouldn't be able to continue to fuel our love of work and saying yes to everything. yeah, I basically just to like reiterate for anyone who is not following me or who may have missed the post even though it was literally like the most viewed post like story I think I've almost ever had which was wild I was, yeah.

Cat (04:10)
Wait, before

we even get into the post, I feel like we even need to go back to even like before your trip because I feel like you also didn't even like set yourself up well to possibly be out of office because of said issues and boundaries of thinking like, no, I can do all the projects first and it's totally fine. Like I feel like we almost need to go back to like the whole point of why you tried to book this trip and then like.

what happened leading up to it that then led to the post.

Alex Hirsch (04:46)
Well, okay. So I'm trying to like think back, but I basically feel like I took on a lot of projects this entire year of 2025. And so the point where I was like, what the fuck am I doing this all for? Like, life is short, right? So like, you know, work hard, play hard. I can't say I'm like a play hard in terms of like a

Cat (04:56)
Yeah.

Alex Hirsch (05:08)
go out and party type of person but like play hard and like

Cat (05:10)
No,

not your- that's not your type of play, but just like... relax well.

Alex Hirsch (05:13)
Yeah.

Yeah, like, rot hard. Hard. Latte hard.

Cat (05:20)
Eat hard.

Art Wattcard. ⁓

Alex Hirsch (05:24)
Yeah.

So, I really wanted to make sure that I could, book something this year that would be, where I wanted to put my time and energy and money for, all the things I've been doing.

I was trying to do something to take a break and then going back to what you said about like setting myself up for it. I had so many projects leading up to it, like the months, the weeks, and even the days before that like I didn't really do well with packing everything that I needed or

Cat (05:50)
The literal hours.

Alex Hirsch (05:58)
booking all the tickets that we needed to book ahead of time and like planning out all the stuff for the cities and stuff like that. So, I don't know, does that answer that question?

Cat (06:10)
Yeah, I think it was more

so I wanted to give people context because I feel like you even the goal of it was to be like this separate trip that was supposed to be like you said enjoy the fruits of your labor essentially have some time to pour back into yourself like do things just for enjoyment and then it was like every little project that came up you were like yeah I could do that before like I'll have time and then that

That was past Alex, who was like so optimistic and then when it was like time to pack current Alex was very upset. Past Alex.

Alex Hirsch (06:44)
⁓ yeah, so also like I knew that if I booked it, it would make me say no to projects. That was something too.

Cat (06:51)
But you didn't.

Alex Hirsch (06:52)
You're right, I didn't. You're right. Because I did still subcontract two That was the idea. I did still subcontract two events. And, or three events. No, that was three. Because you had one, Jane had one, and then you had another one, the pasta one. Because I was still like, well, I still love these clients and I still want to make sure that they have an artist for this and that was still in their vendor system, whatever.

Cat (06:54)
But that was the idea.

Alex Hirsch (07:18)
⁓ god, yeah, I... ⁓

Cat (07:22)
But I feel like it was like all of that stress that led to the crying over a croissant, but not over a croissant.

the like push over that led to the post, feel like was like all of those last minute things

Alex Hirsch (07:36)
Yeah. Here's also what happened. Here's also what happened. So basically, I also got two inquiries, right before I left. That was like, one was like, the two days, the front of the trip, and like, the day at the end of the trip. So I was literally like, ⁓ my god, I should just rebook. Yeah, I should just rebook my trip to be less, and just cancel all of my plans. And...

Cat (07:52)
Jeff, missing him.

Alex Hirsch (08:02)
I hate myself even saying this right now, it sounds insane! But I was so-

Cat (08:06)
I can't say shit because

I do the same thing but also for work trips I'm like I can squeeze that in and just fly out at 1am.

Alex Hirsch (08:14)
No, you literally do. Yeah, I feel like embarrassed to say it, but like I really was like considering. You didn't? Oh. No, no, no, no, no. I think I did because one was for, we should like bleep, figure out ways to bleep this out, but one was for the

Cat (08:21)
I didn't know that. That was the first time. No, you didn't share that.

But I didn't know you were considering restructuring your whole trip. I knew it came in, but I don't feel like you allowed yourself to say that out loud.

Alex Hirsch (08:46)
I did talk with one friend about it and I was like, hey, I'm spiraling and she like talked me through it and she was like, bitch, you're not an anti-capitalist for nothing. Like, what are you doing? And so like she definitely like put me in my place and I was like, the reason you're taking this trip is so that you can say no to things and so that you do say no to things. Because again, I was like,

If I don't book this fucking trip, I will continue just book things and book things and book things all year and I'll never fucking take it because what I learned from a calligrapher in Paris was that they have like a solid five weeks off, like everyone during the year. Where like she was like, she was like, I don't even get a single email or inquiry or anyone wanting a rush anything or an event. Like everywhere is closed. We summered in blah, blah, blah. And I was just like,

Cat (09:29)
August. ⁓

Alex Hirsch (09:42)
like literally doesn't happen in America. we have to force ourselves to take off. So I think that's part of it too is just like this we have such like a hustle culture and even though we're on the west coast over here where I feel like it's less hustly it's still very much I don't know like non-stop.

Cat (10:00)
always something. think that's hard is like we're both opportunists and there's always something going on here so it's like yeah there's always something.

Alex Hirsch (10:07)
Yeah.

So yeah, that was my experience. And then I like basically posted like it was really hard to take off. I took on way too many projects. I was about to shorten the trip. And also like it's because I really love what I do. And I do really love what I do. But then I also, even though it's been a great year, I feel like I still sometimes.

like as a business owner, and I don't know if you feel this way too, but it's just like any day, it could just be like, and we're done.

Cat (10:36)
Yeah,

yeah, I definitely feel like.

Okay, is this just a trend and then just like one day, my business is gonna be obsolete. Like I don't think AI is coming for it, but are people just not gonna want personalization anymore? Is there gonna be like the next new trend and this is just gonna be in the dust? yeah, I definitely think about that. Even when I'm getting inquiries for like, cause I do more weddings, I'm like 2027, what do mean?

Who knows if you still want this in 2027? I hope you do, but... Who knows? Who knows what I'm doing in 2027? I can't give it to this.

Alex Hirsch (11:08)
Yeah, like will I still have a business? I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know, for me, I think part of it was from like COVID and shutting everything down and like literally having the whole month booked out, like finding it getting to that place and when I yeah, right when I moved to LA and was like, great, I like had full time work. And then everything got canceled.

Cat (11:23)
Yeah, having

That was like right when you had full time.

you

for a very long time.

Alex Hirsch (11:40)
for very long time.

Cat (11:41)
a question of like what events would look like when it was like okay to have events.

Alex Hirsch (11:47)
I just feel like it shifted my mindset so much to that, just that like both events and businesses in general just stopped. So even though I have like diversity in my income.

It didn't matter. Yeah, you

couldn't do in-person workshops. You couldn't do signage. You couldn't do murals. You couldn't do events. Businesses weren't business-ing.

So what do you feel like your stuff comes from? Cause that's, I feel like it's like that past, I don't want to call it trauma, but it feels a little bit trauma-y where you're like, because this happened and I know that my business can go from like thriving to like non-existent and having to go back to like, I went back to teaching full-time for a year. And I feel like that shaped my, like wired my brain to be like, mm-hmm, like this can.

Cat (12:33)
Yeah, it rewired you. Yeah.

Alex Hirsch (12:36)
this have multiple things.

Cat (12:38)
Yeah, I think mine is a little bit different. lack of boundaries or abilities to say no, I feel like more so comes from like, I have been busy from a very young age. Like I played very, very competitive softball my entire life. Like I was on the first travel team in San Diego, now there's like a diamond dozen, but like.

So every weekend I was playing like 15 games starting at like seven years old for my the entirety of my life. Like 15 to 17 games a weekend, practicing like five to six hours, like not a day. It was probably like three or four hours a day and then like regular lessons and stuff like that on top of it and like my entire life. And then once I got to college and I was playing in college like

My, I wasn't on a full ride. Like I had a scholarship, but I still had other bills to pay for. So it was like, I was waking up for six AM workouts and then I was going to class all day and then I was going to practice and then I was working at night and then I was partying. Like it was also my job. I just have spent my entire life like fitting as many things into hours as I can that

when college was over and all that stopped, I just didn't know what to do with all my free time. so I just like, my parents both have really, really strong work ethic, probably a little bit to a fault, but I definitely inherited that from them. And so it was just like, oh, I can fill it up with this job and then that job and then this. And then I was like, well, sure, I'll do a master's and then I'll sure, I'll do my doctorate on top of everything else. And then I just like...

promoted very quickly so everything has felt very accelerated like I've never experienced what it's like to have downtime or like the joy of missing out on I mean I missed out on a lot playing softball but it was because I had another commitment that I was like super pumped about and I feel like I'm always chasing the passion somewhere

like it went from softball and then I didn't know what to do with it so then it went to work and then work was there but I was like missing the physical things and then it went to like CrossFit and weightlifting and like running and like all of those things so I just feel like

I have a passion for slowing down. I only know how to say yes and fill my time. I don't know how to have empty time.

Alex Hirsch (15:09)
I definitely relate to that. think there was like, like with teaching and then turning my hobby of calligraphy into a business in my spare time because like, why not? And then always having that. I'm curious, and this might turn into a little therapy session, so I'm sorry. But I'm curious, part of it.

Cat (15:18)
you

Alex Hirsch (15:28)
makes me think of One, how we're all so... It's ingrained in us to monetize all of our hobbies and to just everything has to be purposeful and productive and that's the only way that we have value is if you're contributing something of like...

financial substance or whatever to the world so like I Think it's like a little bit of a mindset thing of like your worth and value I'm not saying like you I'm saying you look like you in the general sense You specifically cat actually ⁓ And so like I'm just curious like how much of it is that and then I also I wonder and like

Cat (16:01)
You

Alex Hirsch (16:10)
listen I'm signing up for therapy next week. Like I reached out to someone, okay? It's coming. I've done it before but like this trip made me go, okay, we need to work on some things. And I'm just like curious how much it is like also ignoring other problems in your life. You know what I mean? Cause if you're 100 % at work.

Cat (16:30)
Displacing

it, yeah. Then you don't have time to deal with the other things. I possibly, I think as a behavior analyst, this is such a weird, we're way down the treble hole. But just like with my little behavior analyst standpoint too, I think it's just also behavior pattern a lot of times, like people.

Alex Hirsch (16:35)
Mm-hmm.

you

Cat (16:52)
fall into what's comfortable and what they know and so people get a hobby and then the unspoken expectation is like do have an Etsy or like people just don't necessarily know how to like talk about those things either in the way of like a hobby. So there's almost just like the behavioral pattern of like, this is what people keep asking me. So then maybe I should do this thing. And then there's like, how do I backpedal out of that? I think a lot of it too is just almost like.

behavioral repetition in a sense. And we don't have like whole lot of models of like, no, like I just do this for fun.

Alex Hirsch (17:26)
Yeah, it's almost

like, I mean, I don't know if this is like a far reach of an analogy, but it's like when people ask you like, are you gonna have kids and you say no and people are like, what?

Cat (17:34)
No,

% it's literally just a scripted conversation. It's like very lazy conversations actually one of my biggest pet peeves It's like that tells me you're very much not engaged in this conversation, and you're just having a very lazy repetition of a conversation. It actually one of my biggest pet peeves. Because then if you say something different then everyone like short circuits and that makes you feel weird for breaking the script. It's like... You know.

Alex Hirsch (18:01)
Yeah, I feel like

that is very often. I mean, I thankfully surround myself with people who don't give a shit about like that sort of thing specifically,

But like it is so interesting too especially at events like every once in a while you'll come across a guest who asks you things or says something and you're exactly right like their brain will short-circuit and you're like No, like you're actually you the way that you're thinking about this thing and that X equals Y or whatever it is like

doesn't mean it has to be for everyone and people get so tripped up on that. That Etsy question, my god I can't with the Etsy question.

Cat (18:35)
It's like the Etsy

question are like at the events, like, so this is like your job? Like this is what you do? Yeah. And I probably make more than you do.

Alex Hirsch (18:41)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, or they'll like, my god, I couldn't even draw a stick figure. I'm like, that has nothing to do with handwriting. Thank you so much. I definitely think it has to do with that too. you know me, I'm always like, it's cultural, like collectively, societally, everyone has those, that programming in their brain, right? And it's like, where does that come from?

Cat (18:53)
I can't either.

Alex Hirsch (19:09)
I don't think it's a generational thing of like turning your hobby into something that

makes money. And I also think it's something where like we're all struggling right now to to make ends meet. So I also think that's part of it is just like when are things gonna get too expensive? And like I should have worked harder when I had the opportunity because at a certain point like I couldn't get hired for events anymore or like

my lifestyle is now twice as much as it was and like shit, like now I need to work twice as hard because I wasn't saying yes to those other things. I think that's also something in my brain.

Cat (19:55)
I don't think it's any one specific thing and it's obviously unique to everyone's upbringing and their history and their circumstance and how that changes. yeah, it's definitely interesting how it manifests differently in everyone's lives and then how it plays out in our decisions. And here we are, still both burned out.

Alex Hirsch (20:21)
Yeah, I mean, I do feel a little less burnout and I'm saying this of course and like during whatever phase of the night one off we go.

Cat (20:26)
your one-off week where you get

so much energy.

Alex Hirsch (20:32)
I don't even have an off week. I had literally like two days off and I'm like, wow, I am healed, everyone healed. And I actually, that's a good point. I think that's also another thing, which you know how they're like, don't make decisions when you're mad or like, whatever. It's kind of like, yeah, no, exactly.

Cat (20:35)
Tuesday.

Yeah, don't go to the grocery store when you're hungry.

Alex Hirsch (20:53)
I feel like it's also... ⁓ when I'm in a good mood and I have a lot of energy, I say yes to a lot of things, and then it's like, I don't know, like my period week or my luteo phase, and I go, why the fuck am I working this week?

Cat (21:10)
Yeah.

You specifically should actually probably schedule your events around your cycle.

Alex Hirsch (21:21)
I do actually, I have been trying to schedule Sweet Green a little bit around that.

I have definitely been a little bit more aware, both like preventatively, yeah, preventative care for leading up to it, as well as just looking and seeing what's around that time. ⁓ There's actually people that write whole ass calendars and notebooks about this shit and literally plan their whole lives around their cycle and I...

Cat (21:31)
which is step one.

Alex Hirsch (21:51)
I love it and also that sounds like so much to track

minute.

Cat (21:54)
I love

that as a concept and for other people it would not work with my lifestyle. That was a concept I learned when I was actually looking at engagement rings. That was like a foundational shift for my brain. I like a lot of things for other people. I think I like a lot of things for me and then I try them on for myself and I realized, I like that for other people.

Alex Hirsch (22:02)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Cat (22:21)
like morning workouts. I like that in concept, in theory, but it is for other people. I am an afternoon and or late night workout girlie is what my body tells me. there's just so many things that I have metaphorically tried on in my life and I was like, I love this for other people. This is not for me.

Alex Hirsch (22:43)
which is actually so funny. I feel like we both do it, but I'm just, I can't think of a time where you've done it with me, like my lifestyle, but I feel like everyone's around like, oh my god, I'm pulling a cat. And then I go, I actually, I actually hate this. I'm not going to do that again.

Cat (22:53)
What is it?

did you do?

Alex Hirsch (23:01)
No, like booking a flight like three hours before the event starts, or like taking on weddings and I was like, maybe I'll try this. We'll see how this goes or, you know.

Cat (23:02)
⁓

You're like, ⁓ I

love this for Cat. I absolutely fucking hate this for me.

Alex Hirsch (23:15)
Yep. Yep. And it's great practice for boundary setting though because then you're like, okay, great for someone else.

Cat (23:23)
tried this on

and I'm gonna take it off.

Alex Hirsch (23:28)
Yeah, that's probably the only way that I'm good at boundary setting is once I try something and I go, And with that never, the nails. I couldn't do the nails.

Cat (23:36)
yeah, you could not do the nails. There we go though, we have an actual takeaway. You can try things on for yourself, and if you don't like them, you can take them back off. And you can still like them for other people.

Alex Hirsch (23:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, you don't

have to commit to actually anything. Commitment's horrible.

Cat (23:52)
No.

as we over commit.

Alex Hirsch (23:56)
also that. But here's the thing about that is that it makes me not commit to other things, if that makes sense. Like I go, well, like I can't.

Cat (24:03)
Yeah, like your personal

care.

Alex Hirsch (24:06)
Yeah, what is personal care? I don't... Who is... What is... Yeah, I just started with a trainer again and I'm actually like, whoa, are we... Is this gonna last? I will say, okay, that's the other thing this past year. I feel like I, because I had a great year, I stopped volunteering this year. I stopped with a personal trainer this year and I made it to Pilates like maybe 20 times.

Cat (24:08)
What do you mean, taking care of my body?

twice.

Alex Hirsch (24:37)
And I'm like, wow, I had so much free time. And what did I do with it?

I filled it with work. I was like, I'm going to have all this extra time and I'll like definitely spend it doing other things. No, I just worked. So I feel like it's one of God, it goes back to that thing of like, choose how you want to spend your time, right? although I do hate the reference of like, we all have the same 24 hours in the day, like, no, we don't. We absolutely don't.

Cat (25:04)
No. I mean, we do, but the context of the 24 hours.

Alex Hirsch (25:05)
and for anyone who does other.

Yeah, like your

24 hours is very different than my 24 hours.

⁓

Cat (25:13)
So you put up this post, which was super well received. did you get a lot of messages? What was the response?

Alex Hirsch (25:20)
Yeah, no,

was actually very wild how many people DM'd me with paragraphs of and I was like, this is therapy right now. We're all, we all relate. And I think we all kind of have this problem, right? Like we all, especially as creatives, we really love what we do. That's why we're fucking doing it. And so it's really hard to say no to things. It's really hard to say no to things.

Cat (25:27)
shared it.

Yeah.

especially as like

creative contractors where it's literally like the next job is a question. Like you can guess what the trend in terms of what you've done the previous year or like when, you know, retail or, you know, whatever picks up a little bit, but a creative contractor is like a crazy oxymoron, I feel like in so many ways.

Alex Hirsch (26:05)
I think a lot of people mostly just shared that they related. They are also very passionate. They are also very like, my god, where is the next job? And that just left me like, like maybe we should talk about this. Because people, like you said in the beginning, it's very lonely to be an entrepreneur. That felt weird to say for some reason. ⁓

Cat (26:27)
You got very Moira

Rose about it.

Alex Hirsch (26:31)
But yeah, I feel like being a creative, being an entrepreneur or business owner, if you will, is a struggle. It's a struggle. It's a struggle. And this is one of those struggles.

I realized I'm really, actually maybe this is helpful. Okay, here's what I realized. I realized that I'm really good at setting boundaries, but then when it comes to boundaries being pushed of someone being like, well, what about this thing? Right? it's like my, I set my schedule for

These were the two weeks I was gonna be gone and not taking on projects and then someone was like well What about this thing and I was like, you know, like I can make that work Like I could figure this out for you Instead of just being like no can't do it already committed to something else ⁓

Cat (27:11)
They're very like soft

boundaries. They feel like hard boundaries, but the second someone's like, think, like, you're just like, whoa.

Alex Hirsch (27:19)
I'm like, can be flexible, I can go with the

flow. So I think that's what I learned from the trip is also that I get overwhelmed by the poke, the like, or the flick or whatever you just did of like, people do that and then I go, why are you doing that?

Cat (27:34)
Yeah.

Alex Hirsch (27:38)
the whole thing was a learning experience. I had a great time, by the way. I know I'm, I feel like I'm

Cat (27:42)
Did you have

like a pivot moment like where you were like, okay, I've had enough of myself, like, I'm making a conscious shift to do something different and now I can enjoy my trip or was it just like, the more time you had away, it just kind of like gradually, not maybe it got easier, but like was less invasive or you just ignored that a little bit to like get out like what was tell me about that like trip part.

Alex Hirsch (28:08)
No, hmm.

Cat (28:10)
Because it didn't, wasn't, it seemed like there was a point where it wasn't so like debilitating.

Alex Hirsch (28:17)
Yeah, I think that was also part of the cities we were in because the first city we arrived in was Paris and the second city was Amsterdam and the third city was Copenhagen and so basically it went from like super fast paced and like so much to do to like medium paced and like stuff to do but not like need to do just like could be a little bit more... ⁓ god I keep forgetting how you say it it's like it's hoagie? hygee?

Cat (28:30)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I know the word you're trying to say, I don't know how to say it. G-G-Y or I-E or something. I can't spell it either.

Alex Hirsch (28:49)
Yeah, it's H-Y. Oh, I... Yeah.

No, I got it when I was there and then I forget. Hi, G. Okay, I'll look it up. Anyways. And then Copenhagen was such like a chill, like not a lot like happening, like you can walk, you can just fucking cold. So I feel like also if I had reversed, it might've been a way different story, but like going from like...

Cat (29:01)
Not hygiene.

It's just cold.

Alex Hirsch (29:20)
go go go go go to you arrive and you're jet lagged and like you're in a city that's also go go go go go was just like fucking poor choice on my end. So I don't know if it was like if it was like a forced like slow down because we just kept going to slower and slower cities.

Cat (29:41)
The weather made you like, stay in.

Alex Hirsch (29:44)
hibernate for sure. Yeah, Copenhagen's cold, don't go in October. Unless you wanna f- I was gonna that, you're right, you're right. I'm not into that. I moved from the East Coast to the West Coast because I am not into that and I do not like cold and it's so-

Cat (29:48)
Unless you're into that. go off.

I don't either. I don't even let my house get colder than like 73.

Alex Hirsch (30:05)
Whoa, that's wild. Yeah, so feel like, no, like, I don't think I got better. I think the cities just kind of forced me to like do a little bit less, but I definitely worked the most in Copenhagen.

but also we had nothing else to do except for like watch movies and like sit in bed and go to

Cat (30:19)
Yeah.

Forbid

we enjoy free time. I have the same problem every night like I'm literally just like oh I can watch this but I'm actually not watching it I'm actually like doing nine million other things on my computer because I don't know how to have free time. I'm trying to learn it's not going well to be honest with you.

Alex Hirsch (30:26)
And we did, we did.

no, it's actually so hard. And I honestly, I do feel like our society is a little bit moving towards like with the AI thing and with us all being obsessed with work. I do, at least I perceive a shift in like more analog stuff and more like doing things with our hands. we're all kind of like, what can we do that's not technology? So I, for a while I was pretty good about trying to embroider.

Cat (30:59)
Yeah.

Alex Hirsch (31:09)
in front of my tv at least so i wasn't on my little screen with my big screen

Cat (31:12)
Okay.

Alex Hirsch (31:17)
I did that for a little bit. Recently I've been doing black letter calligraphy.

And then I kind of gave up because I couldn't fully do well on the couch because you really well you can't like you have to use your whole arm instead of just your like you shouldn't be really twisting your wrists and so it gets me in a bad pattern if I'm doing it on the couch because then I start twisting my wrists and then it's not the 45 degree angle and then I go fuck like I'm not doing this correctly and they all are different angles. So.

Cat (31:24)
Yeah. Get your, yeah.

Yeah.

Alex Hirsch (31:42)
that's definitely been like one thing I've been trying a little bit is just trying not to be on two to three screens.

Cat (31:48)
That was going to be my next question actually. feel like one thing you do very very well is prioritize your sleep. I'm interested to hear from you what other things that you would like to try to prioritize.

Alex Hirsch (31:48)
Read a book?

Cat (32:01)
Like even when it gets crazy, I feel like you're very good about like, that's the first thing that you're very protective over. So I'm interested to, which is, I'm not saying it was a bad thing. I'm not very good at it. I'm not saying it was a bad thing. But I'm interested to see like what other, like it sounds like you started working with a personal trainer again. Like what other areas are you trying to like?

Alex Hirsch (32:10)
No, I know,

Cat (32:24)
reintegrate to separate from like the workaholic mindset.

Alex Hirsch (32:25)
trying to get fit.

Yeah.

well, I did stop tattooing because that was killing my body. So for anyone who keeps asking me, that's the answer for that. I stopped for now so that was one thing I took away. I did take away something. Yes.

Cat (32:41)
took something off your plate. That's a win. That's a

win.

Especially because we're about to go into this, I don't know when we're going to release this, so either we are just coming out of busy season or maybe we're in the middle of busy season. Like, what do you want to prioritize?

Alex Hirsch (33:00)
Yeah, I did say something to someone about like not booking things before noon. Like I book a lot of client calls at like 10, 10, 30, 11, like all in the morning because I'm like it'll give me an excuse to wake up, like get out of bed.

Cat (33:13)
⁓ no,

don't do that. You love that for other people. You do not love that for you. You tried that on, you should take that off.

Alex Hirsch (33:21)
But sometimes there's so many like East Coast people and I'm like, well, I can't keep telling them I'm only available after 12.

Cat (33:27)
I

Alex Hirsch (33:30)
Ew, I know. See, I don't like texts. See, that's the difference between us. I don't like, yeah, you're a DM's person. And a DM's person.

Cat (33:38)
I just don't,

I hate phone calls. You know this.

Alex Hirsch (33:41)
Yeah.

Yeah. I'd rather be on a phone call. I loved phone call. I even like requested a phone call with a client today for something tomorrow and they were like, they like knew we needed to get on a call because it was going to take so much less time and they were still like, I could feel them be like, I don't want to be on this call. And I was like, bitch, we got to talk about this.

Cat (33:46)
you

I just asked you a question about what you wanted to prioritize and you answered it with something about work.

Alex Hirsch (34:09)
Ha ha ha!

Fuck off.

Well, okay, the reasoning is that... Okay. Okay.

Cat (34:16)
What do you want to prioritize? Don't,

nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. I am not even entertaining this rationale.

Alex Hirsch (34:22)
No, I had a point. I had a secondary

point to my thing there. Was because I would like to walk in the mornings.

Cat (34:31)
just on your own or both.

Alex Hirsch (34:33)
Yeah.

Yeah. Cause walking's like good for you.

I think maybe friends, maybe, maybe. you know what? You'd be proud of me. My family came in this weekend and I got a request for an event the day that they came in and I gave it to somebody else.

Cat (34:54)
That is the subnarachron. I love that.

Alex Hirsch (34:58)
Yeah, I think it's also like knowing like there's other people to trust

Cat (35:03)
Yes. And I think it's the abundance mindset too, which like I think both of us do a fairly good job of keeping that. Obviously we're human and that scarcity creeps in, but I think not just the abundance mindset of like, there's plenty of events for everybody, but the abundance of like, if I say no to this one, it doesn't mean that they're never going to work with me again. I feel like we will have to unpack that one.

Alex Hirsch (35:04)
That's a hard one.

Cat (35:30)
And if they do go with someone else and build a good relationship, then that's also okay too. And then there is more clients out there for us and everybody.

I

Alex Hirsch (35:44)
Okay, so.

Where does this leave us? Do you want to talk about what you're doing? Or do you feel like this does not apply to you?

Cat (35:53)
What do you mean?

Alex Hirsch (35:55)
I mean, you came at me with, Alex, what sort of things do you want to do and how do you want to your time and not work?

Cat (36:02)
no, absolutely call me out. You know that my bitch ass needs to

fucking work on this. ⁓ I'm trying to prioritize...

Alex Hirsch (36:08)
You

Cat (36:15)
actually working out consistently i just feel so much like yes and no but i think a lot of it is more a pressure of it like it's not coming from a place of taking care of myself and my body so i've been doing hot yoga and hot pilates lately as opposed to going across it i just feel like

Alex Hirsch (36:19)
I feel like you're so good at acting.

Cat (36:37)
The high intensity stuff is really fucking up my cortisol levels right now and I just feel like I'm never having a chance to I don't I have not taken my blood test or anything so I don't know if that's legit confirmed but I just feel like I'm trying to prioritize like my soft girl area like era my soft girl era there we go just like soft girl for me is like

Alex Hirsch (36:56)
What does soft mean?

Cat (37:03)
just like slowing down and like things that are more intentional, less go, go, go, go, go. Cause I already have so much of that. So I'm trying to like.

Alex Hirsch (37:13)
less hardcore. Like the opposite of hardcore. Because we're so hardcore.

Cat (37:15)
Yes, less intensity.

No you're not hardcore. Do you know that reference? I only know some of the references. Because you live hardcore. Okay. No you're not hardcore. No you're not hardcore.

Alex Hirsch (37:23)
Hahaha

Isn't that from Freaky Friday?

I didn't hear you say it. But I know exactly what you're talking about.

⁓ from

the Jack Black from School of Rock. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You had to say it in the two different things and then I was like, yeah, I get it.

Cat (37:38)
Yeah.

I know. Unless you live hardcore,

unless you live hardcore.

Alex Hirsch (37:46)
There was such a good TikTok, I'm pretty sure it probably made it to Instagram, but there was such a good TikTok about this like this little short girl and she was in this like big, I should say woman, sorry, this short woman in this big t-shirt and she did the whole thing. She went into her bathroom and did the whole like lyric thing of like him doing that in the mirror. And then there was like a one, when like someone came in, her like boyfriend who's like.

Cat (38:02)
my gosh, incredible.

Alex Hirsch (38:13)
It's so funny. I always watch it. Every time it comes up, I'm like, yeah, we're watching this. It's so good. It's so good.

Cat (38:23)
Yeah, so I'm trying to do... So anyways, we're not hardcore. Yeah, so I'm just trying to do things with more intentionality, less intensity.

Alex Hirsch (38:23)
Okay, so we're not hardcore.

Cat (38:36)
So like trying to cook more things, trying to make sure I eat all my meals, trying to just read instead of I don't know, it just feels like my life is constantly like, next, next, next, next, so even just trying to slow that down.

Alex Hirsch (38:37)
How do you?

Yeah, like never, I love looking at your location on my little sims app and being like, where's Cat today?

Cat (38:58)
you

Yeah,

December is not gonna be any better. I think I have like four trips.

for the rest of the year.

Alex Hirsch (39:14)
I have two and I'm already stressed about it, so.

Cat (39:17)
December is... I don't know where I am in December. You can't find me.

Alex Hirsch (39:22)
I'll find you because I have your location. And I'll be with you for one of them. So actually that reminded me, you know what I've been really good about lately? And I actually think it's probably helping my ADHD a little bit. Actually, I know it's for like sure helping my ADHD, but eating breakfast and then drinking caffeine.

Cat (39:23)
You will find me. Good.

Yes.

Yes,

that has been part of my soft girl era is having a full water. But I think part of it is we got an espresso machine. And so I don't just have like a pot of fucking coffee. Like I have to make a whole latte. Yeah. And I would have like three cups of coffee a day. Now I'm having espresso. So in terms of like caffeine intake, it's probably infinitely higher, but

Alex Hirsch (39:49)
You're holding it in your neck for this?

That's what you were doing before?

Ugh.

Cat (40:12)
the idea that I have to grind the beans and then make the espresso and then frost the milk and do the stuff like that takes time and I'm cooking breakfast at the same time and like I'm able to drink my water during that time I've already had my vitamins so I'm like very much trying to do like good for my body before not ruin my body but like I treat my body but like I treat my body or like something you know

Alex Hirsch (40:38)
Yeah, like we're

setting it up for success for the day.

Cat (40:40)
or at least not setting it up to fail.

Alex Hirsch (40:43)
Yeah. No, I love that.

Cat (40:46)
been having one cup of coffee a day.

Alex Hirsch (40:48)
Well, if you're drinking espresso, then yeah, you should only be having one.

Cat (40:53)
Well even then I would still have like two or three espressos a day. Like two or three lattes a day. I usually would have like two in the morning and then in the afternoon. It'll like pick me up. This is

Alex Hirsch (40:57)
Oh, that's a lot. Yeah, that'll fuck you up.

Yeah, don't do that. But I remembered that the word is huga, by the way.

That's how you say it, feel good.

Cat (41:15)
Hold on, before we go down that rabbit hole. I've been taking a social media Sabbath. I'm trying to actually do a Sabbath where I'm taking one day off of work completely, but if I can't do that, then at least trying to have one day of rest separate of...

Alex Hirsch (41:32)
Is a Sabbath short for sabbatical? It's a one day? Is a Sabbath a one day?

Cat (41:35)
No, like a biblical Sabbath.

Yeah, it's the day of rest.

Alex Hirsch (41:41)
No, I mean, I know that. But the way you're talking.

Cat (41:46)
No, I'm trying to take- NO!

I'm genuinely trying to take a Sabbath day.

Alex Hirsch (41:51)
like a one day, like a rest day. Okay.

Cat (41:53)
Yes. Yes. But

that's not always feasible. So I at least try to do it as like a social media Sabbath where I'm taking like a rest from social media and I'll literally like offload the app so I can't open it or anything. And it's been great. I actually love it. It's wonderful. ⁓

Alex Hirsch (42:15)
How do you offload

the app?

Cat (42:17)
⁓ Well, this is only the girls with low storage would know this. So you can go into your storage and it has like all of your apps there. And then you can click on it and just hit offload. And so it just like takes it. It keeps it on your phone. It keeps all of your login and all your data in it, but it temporarily takes it off your phone. So it frees up the storage.

Alex Hirsch (42:23)
don't have that.

Cat (42:40)
And then all you have to do is tap on it to redownload and it's still logged in. All of your stuff is still there. All your settings are still there. It just like will make you redownload it before you enter back in. So I just offload it once a week and it's great. But I get very behind on my husband homework and all of my friend homework and I log back in and have so many DMS and they're not.

This is just like real constant.

Alex Hirsch (43:08)
What does intentional like, so okay for me being intentional literally means I have to like pause before every fucking decision that I make.

Cat (43:17)
It's less about that, it's more so like...

paying attention to what I'm doing because I'm normally like, I'm like ordering food and then also like with my girls, but then also like half in my inbox at the same time. I'm just trying to multitask less. and it's not for every meal, but like at least I try for like one meal a day instead of just like having something quick, like making the choice to stand there and cook something for myself or like.

cook something for the week. So I have something like homemade for the week. So today I made granola. So I have that for my yogurts all week in the morning or something like that. So I'm just trying to like be more present with some of my choices that were, that and not be splitting my attention nine different ways.

Alex Hirsch (44:05)
are you gonna do more Disney days? Are you gonna do less work? Less travel? Do you want to be doing less travel or do you still like that you're traveling?

Cat (44:16)
I still like travel. I want to be more conscious of how I schedule the travel. I would like to be less ballsy with my travel. I tried. I tried to create time and space for my travel and then I fucking got a DM job that I have no self-control and said yes to. But I'm trying to be better about...

Only scheduling direct flights, only like scheduling things that are not at 5am. I scheduled a 7am flight instead of a 5am flight. I almost scheduled the 11 but then there was just like a lot of question marks and I had to get back. But I did change my flight.

I'm still good with travel. I'm trying to be better about how I schedule travel.

Alex Hirsch (45:06)
I think we're just like reflecting on our behavior and that's important.

Cat (45:12)
I do be analyzing

my own behavior.

Alex Hirsch (45:14)
I think it's like really hard to find the space sometimes when you're going and going and going to like even take the time to be like, what the fuck am I doing? And like make change for future.

Cat (45:25)
Yeah,

I do that. I'm very aware in the moment about how detrimental it is to me. And I think it's no, I think you are. That's not true. I think you just then get your two days of rest and then you're a different person because you've poured into yourself and now you're ready to take on the world.

Alex Hirsch (45:35)
I'm not. I'm very like...

Cat (45:51)
I feel like we're not great at analyzing ourselves when we're in a good spot is what it is. Like where you're not great at accurately identifying what stressed out us should be taking on. Cause we can take it all on and we do, but that's the problem. Like just because we can do it doesn't mean we should. And I think both of us in our slow days.

when we're our best selves are not kind to us in our busy states. And we both need to be better at that.

Alex Hirsch (46:23)
would agree with that.

I just, like, don't even know how to do that. If anyone has any tips, I feel like, fucking drop that shit. Cause, like, how do you plan for the- well, I'm like, how do you plan for the worst? But genuinely, like, how do you plan for the worst when, like, you wanna have, a positive, optimistic mindset or, like, outlook? And not, in a toxic way, I feel like I'm genuinely, like-

There was a project recently where I was like, this is only gonna take me two hours to finish. It ended up taking me close to four. And my husband knew exactly how long it was gonna take and he was like, I didn't say a fucking word. He's like, just double your time. But for some reason my brain doesn't compute that that's something I should be doing.

So I'm just like, how do you?

More buffers maybe. Just like always put buffers.

Cat (47:15)
Yeah, I think we need to like retrain our brain because we just see everything as like, ⁓ if I was on site, my volume would be X amount. So obviously, like in this context, it would be the same. But we don't consider that at home. We want a little snacky snack and I have to go to the bathroom. And now my mom is calling me and my daughters now also want to write place cards like.

and I can only work on this between the hours of 10 p.m. 5 a.m. Those are the options. Like I don't account for that because on site I don't get a snacky snack unless I bring one. Bathrooms, who are they? Like water break? Nr.

Alex Hirsch (48:06)
What is that? Water? Hydration? Question mark?

Yeah, yeah, genuinely like, don't think I have answers for anyone other than like, try to reflect, try to have people that call you out in a nice kind way. To be like, hey remember, remember when you said that that would take two hours and then it took four? And I was like, yeah.

Cat (48:24)
I don't think I did it a kind of way.

And don't think this episode was necessarily meant to give actual advice. I hope that's not what y'all were expecting, sorry. But hopefully you get to the end of this and you're like, okay, it's not just me. it's not just me at the beginning of my business. It's not just me balancing full-time work and my business. And it's not just me, even though I've been doing this for so many years and I feel like I should have these answers and I don't at any stage, it's not just you.

And maybe it's just us, and if that's case, please fucking DM us and let us know your secrets. And we'll try them on for ourselves.

decide if we'd like them for ourselves or if we need to only like them for other people.

Alex Hirsch (49:11)
Yeah. You know, we're all doing our fucking best, I hope, and that's all you can ask for. And like, we're not here to be inspiration for anyone. We're just here to be...

Realistic. Realistic? I don't know realistic, actually. Just real. Just... ⁓ What's the word? I don't like authentic. That's a terrible word. Our truest form. We are...

Cat (49:26)
Transparent.

No. And

that was better? That was better?

Alex Hirsch (49:39)
That was better? I've never heard that in the MLM space as our truest form. Have you?

Cat (49:45)
I have thoughts and feelings and a solution possibly.

okay, thanks so much. I hope you love this episode. And if you didn't, I'm so sorry. If you didn't, don't tell us. But if you did, leave us a comment and subscribe and rate us on like all the things. And yeah, if you don't follow us already, please do. Our calligraphy page is, or our podcast page is Keeping Up With The Calligs on Instagram.

and you can find me I am at Cat Lauren calligraphy that's Cat with a C and Alex you can find her at

Alex Hirsch (50:22)
signs of our lives on Instagram and we're really excited that you listened. If you made it this far, holy shit and good fucking luck.

Cat (50:33)
Thanks, love you, bye!

Alex Hirsch (50:34)
Love you, bye!

Thanks for keeping up!