The Doing Business in Bentonville Podcast
To create an ecosystem that connects leaders of all kinds – industry, community, student, educational, civic, investment and entrepreneurial – to help overcome Omnichannel Retail barriers through exclusive, insight-rich content.
The Doing Business in Bentonville Podcast
Ep. 84 - Empowering High-Performance Teams: Leadership Lessons with Celia Swanson
Have you ever wondered how a shift towards servant leadership could revolutionize your team's performance?
Let's take that thought further and explore the compelling world of high-performing teams with the guidance of Andy Wilson and guest Celia Swanson, whose wisdom is rooted in her book's powerful insights.
Together, Celia and Andy unravel the core elements of leadership—impact, influence, and inspiration—and their indispensable role in nurturing a successful team dynamic. Their conversation spans the globe, inviting listeners to exchange experiences and learn from the diverse narratives that illustrate the spectrum of team environments, from the most harmonious to those fraught with challenges.
Reflecting on the lasting influence of Don Soderquist's tenure at the Soderquist Center for Leadership and Ethics, the discussion underscores the significance of purpose, clarity, and psychological safety in laying the foundation for a legacy that continues to guide businesses today.
Soderquist's legacy provides a backdrop to our examination of what it truly means to empower rather than control, and how inspiring leadership can catalyze a team’s potential.
Celia and Andyalso dissect Howard Guttman's high-performing team model, prompting you to identify your team's development stage and equip you with actionable strategies to nurture accountability, drive high performance, and celebrate collective victories.
Well, hello everyone and welcome to Leadership Today. My name is Andy Wilson and my co-host Celia Swanson.
Speaker 2:Hello Andy, Great to be with all of you today.
Speaker 1:I will tell you, celia, it's so good to see you, as always, I'm glad you're back. Wow, what we have to talk about today, I will tell you all I can tell our viewers is buckle up, because this is going to be great. Celia Swanson, we have had such wonderful conversations over the last months, right, and so much focused on servant leadership and, of course, your great book.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:You know, and we just boy, it's been so rich. Today, I will tell you, Celia, I think what you're going to share today will be some of the most important content we've shared, and it's all been important.
Speaker 2:It's all been important, so thank you for that.
Speaker 1:But this is going to be great, Celia. And again, thank you all so much. You know, Celia, it's been wonderful, our viewership, and you know, I was just told by our analytical team that we're now viewed in 22 countries, and so thank you everyone.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you, yeah, it's for sharing that and for all the wonderful We'd love to hear from you. So feel free to reach out on social media and respond to us. We'd love to hear your comments. That's amazing. Yeah, it is, isn't it? Yes, yeah, such a wonderful thing. So again, okay, we're going to get started. Cecilia, why don't you introduce our session today?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then we'll get into the content.
Speaker 2:So our topic today is going to be around high-performing teams, and the concept of high-performing teams, I think, is best captured in a quote that I use in my book, Chapter 9, from Robin Sharma, and the quote goes leadership is not about a title or a destination. It's about impact, influence and inspiration. Impact involves getting results. Influence is about spreading the passion you have for your work, and you have to inspire teammates, customers and all leaders around you. I think that sets the expectation for what I believe the result of creating and sustaining a high-performing team is all about, Andy Right.
Speaker 1:You know, and we're going to get into as we talk about these high-performing teams, and if you're on a high-performing team now, you get it.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:And you're there. You're like, okay, I'm leaning in, because how do I take this high-performing team to the next level? How do I aspire that, if you're not, we're going to give you guidance on how you navigate that Right right, that space. And so there's two options here for you You're going to learn more and even more productive, or we're going to teach you how to really get into that space and where you're happy and you're absolutely excelling. Yes, yes, the highest level possible as a leader. So okay, great.
Speaker 2:You know, andy, I had two conversations this week with individuals that I'm coaching and that are in my circle, and the first conversation was with an individual who just joined the Walmart home office campus design team. She's an architect, and what she said is this is the best team I've ever had the privilege to work for in my career. They are smart people. We are all passionate and passionate about creating the same vision on the new Walmart campus, and we're bringing our best work, our best selves, to work every day. I had been aspiring to be on such a team, but once I got on this team, I didn't know how awesome it felt and how energized I am.
Speaker 1:Right, you know, because you're inspired. Yes, the people around you inspire you because of the commitment and dedication to excellence. Yes, that's right, so you know. So it's no different. When you and I worked at walmart or other places, we were around great leaders and they inspired us, and they that you, you, you went home at night and like okay, tomorrow, how do I step up my game?
Speaker 1:right how do I lean in on this? What research do I do? What I need to read, what book, what individual I need to talk to or podcast to watch? Yeah, exactly right, and it's nothing like it. It's nothing like it, and that's how your friend felt. Yes, you know, that's awesome, that's a great story yes.
Speaker 2:Well then I had another person that I happened to have the privilege of coaching and she was working on a project team to bring a solution to the organization that she works for and the project team. She had gotten so frustrated that she said I'm done, I'm out, I will perform my part in the presentation, but I'm not going to do anything beyond that. And I said to her you know that still will reflect on you, so there's a lesson in that. But how frustrating she had become. Frustrated she'd had become because of working in an environment where people weren't listening, people were not taking her feedback seriously and she just she was going to go through the motions and not do anything more.
Speaker 1:You know. Here's what I'd like to say about that. If you are one of those individuals, I want to encourage you for a moment, because it's never too late to make the change and change personally, professionally. You have to look in the mirror on that and say am I the problem? Sometimes I've looked in the mirror and said I'm looking at Right at the problem, sometimes in the wrong place and maybe you're on the wrong team. Maybe you're in the mirror and said I'm looking at Right At the problem, sometimes you're in the wrong place and maybe you're on the wrong team, maybe in the wrong company.
Speaker 1:But what I want to encourage you is this it's not too late for you to look at yourself and say I need now to do this. And what is this? Well, it could be correcting your behavior, it could be going back to school, it could be watching podcasts, it could be getting a coach, it could be multiple things. Go do it now, don't wait, don't allow yourself to waste your time and energy because you're too good for that Great point. And if it's another company, go Research those companies, find that right company, find that right team and go apply yourself there. So don't stay there. That's my encouragement. Do something about it. Because here's the thing, celia, I've seen in my career as working with individuals and things like that is sometimes we stay in this place, this wrong place, too long and and what I and and we? We feel like we can't get out of that spot. Well, it's never too late to make those changes. Because you stay in that place too long, you will develop really poor habits.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:And you want to get yourself out of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you'll take on a bit of the sense of the environment that you're in.
Speaker 1:And you know, when we start in our career, celia, we get. Our leaders are pouring into us, they're helping us, they're guiding us, we're learning by our mistakes and we're correcting and we're learning just how to navigate. You know, being a leader, a manager, a leader at that point, so it's, we get feedback. Sometimes you may be in this place where you've been there for a while. You don't get a lot of feedback now because you're expected to know these things, but you now unfortunately develop some bad habits or whatever. As I said earlier, make a change. I'm encouraging, we're encouraging you.
Speaker 2:Yes, we are encouraging you.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right, don't just settle there and you're and Celia's going to give you such great. Just stay tuned, you're about to get a lot of help here. Okay, if you're in that space.
Speaker 2:So have you ever worked in an environment like the first person described, where you were, you know, working at your best and you were bringing your best to that team and to the project. Have you ever worked in that kind of environment, andy?
Speaker 1:You know I won't give the Walmart example. I could, but it happened again which I had such a wonderful career at Walmart and surrounded with great leaders and we could just stop there and go down this path, but I won't. But I had the opportunity to meet a man at Walmart and Don Soderquist, who was the vice chair at Walmart, and one day in his office he said he was talking about his retirement and we were. We were dealing with some issue and I had to get his advice and guidance on it and we got into this retirement conversation. He said, said you know, I'm going to be leaving at some point and I have his vision. And he said but I'm not recruiting you, but you know Don's ethical way he would say that because he wasn't. But he said when and if you retire, I'd like you to have a conversation with me about my vision.
Speaker 1:Well, I had a conversation with him about his vision later, a couple years later actually, and he shared with me his vision about the Sotoquist Center for Leadership and Ethics and he was located at John Brown University, which is a phenomenal university and have impact around the world. And Don shared his vision and he was in Colorado, his house, and back then we were faxing back and forth. So, anyway, the thing was, when he shared his vision to you, I thought I want to be part of this.
Speaker 2:Oh yes.
Speaker 1:Because here's what Don did we gathered our small team, very small team. Then it became much larger, but a very small team, and I remember we sat around and I could tell you so many stories and maybe later we can talk about all this, but he shared it. What I just leaned in as he talked about his vision and his expectations and how the impact he wanted to have in the world. I mean, I was sitting in the chair and I just kept leaning in, leaning in, and I went I want to be part of this, what part of that? And we did it.
Speaker 2:Yes, you did.
Speaker 1:We did it and it was one of the greatest times in my career working for an individual like Don, and we traveled the world together. We had intimate conversations on planes and trains and automobiles, yes, and you know, and no matter where we were we could be in Japan, or we could be somewhere in Europe, or we could be somewhere in the US and I would just sit and listen to him talk about leadership. And the thing I'll close with I learned that day I learned many times that time with him is that great leaders inspire people.
Speaker 2:Yes, they do, that's what he did to all of us. What you all built with the Sutterquist Leadership Center is still thriving and impacting businesses and individuals across the world. I know, and that's pretty fantastic, that's making an impact. That was Don's legacy.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's what he wanted. That was his legacy. That's a great point. It was his legacy, that's what he wanted to do and he did it. But you know, we just ran to it every day. Whatever it was, we just ran to it. That's great, and so I'll come. Thanks for asking that question.
Speaker 2:Well, I want to dissect that story a little bit for our audience, because Andy just referenced the three pillars of a high-performing team. And the first pillar is purpose or mission. Same thing, and you saw the vision. You all had a mission. It was explained and described by Don every single day, but it was clear what you were all focused on. The second and I just hit on that, it was clear, it's called clarity. You spent time talking about it and deep diving into what did that. Look like, what did it feel like, what was the impact you wanted to leave on individuals and teams? And then the third was Don created psychological safety on that team and psychological safety was your point about. He inspired us. We came in, we iterated, we talked about how we might execute or bring this to life, and then he got out of the way and just let us go develop, design, implement and you know, worldwide impact was accomplished. Those are the three pillars of a high performing team.
Speaker 1:You said something I want to circle back to, because as leaders, sometimes we think we have to micromanage and we've got to have our hands on everything. And Don had an office here in Rogers, arkansas, and he did not office on the campus with us, and so we built the center on the campus and so it was a great center and our team was there. The business division was underneath, so we had access to students and other leaders on the campus. But you know, don, he would call me up and I could picture him right now sitting at his desk, probably feet up on his desk, and his phone in his hand, saying, sitting at his desk, probably feet up on his desk, and his phone in his hand, saying, okay, how's things going, and he'd let me talk. He said, you know, and he'd ask questions about it, not probing questions, nothing that would say he's trying to lead or take over, just informational questions. And then he would say anything I can help you with. He always said that and I would say, hey, yeah, I need what. Do you think about this? Well, what he did? He opened the door for me to be very relaxed, not threatened, but just have a very a business conversation with him and get his advice. He never said you should go do this. He said you should think about it, what that did.
Speaker 1:Then, when I got off, I said I have a new idea. Now I have. I have what I'm thinking about this, but he's giving me more information to think deeper or broader about it. And then I would go to the team and guess how I guess I did the team just like he did me. I'd say what do you think? And'd say, hey, I talked to Don and he suggested this idea or something. And then we'd come in, we'd collaborate with a team. Then we would set that direction and we'd go execute it Because that team, because they were all leaning in, it was their ideas, it was their. I was just duplicating what Don did for me. I was trying to inspire them like he inspired me. Then we all were inspired because of Don's comment.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly To your point. Well, that's creating psychological safety Exactly, and psychological safety has been defined by Berkman as an environment where team members feel safe to take risks and be vulnerable in front of each other. So critical, and that component became even more important in high-performing team development when the world shut down and we all started working independently, virtually individually, and this psychological safety environment was all of a sudden. A bright light was shown on how important that is, because you had to create an environment where individuals felt still inspired to work, even though they weren't coming in and interacting with the team. You had to create an environment where you were getting, generating ideas and together coming up with the best way to operate in this circumstance and then creating vulnerable opportunities for people to share. This isn't working for me or I'm thriving in this environment. When we come back to work, can we do a blend of some of this individual, virtual and team, and that's what Don did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that, you know. I want to underline something you said during the cut time of COVID and you know, us workforce, they do a poll each year and they talk about three critical points, about engagement you're engaged, unengaged and disengaged. And we, because of the way we worked, our engagement really went down those couple years as a workforce. But back to what Don he understood these components very well and I remember one time he said something we were presenting to an organization somewhere I think it was in Japan actually and we were talking about disengagement and we were at that point using not the US but the world status, you know, information at that point. And so he and I were actually on a flight over to Japan talking, and he, you know, said, hey, talk to me, we'd sit beside each other. And he said so, talk to me about what you're thinking about. He, you know, said hey, talk to me, we'd sit beside each other. And he said so, talk to me about what you're thinking about. You know, what can I do? How can I help when I get there? You know we were so we would discuss this on the plane going over. And again, that showed you he was not micromanaging all. He said, hey, what we're talking about you know. So we'd go back through and we'd walk through it.
Speaker 1:And he said something to me on a plane trip. He said he said here's the goal, andy. He said the goal is get the highest possible engagement with your people. He said that's what drives the organization, that's what drives the teams, he said you know. He said whatever the number was, you know, recently in the US it was around 30%, just above that. But what Don was saying? Let's get to 90%. Right, let's go get the 100%, but let's go get the 90. Yes, because with 90, look at how productive your organization or your team is. Right, and as a leader, that's what you want to do. You want to operate, lead in a way to create the engagement. Yes, when you have a number, a great high number, you have less not engaged and much less disengaged. Right, because the disengaged are done. Right, they're like that person.
Speaker 2:The second story.
Speaker 1:I'm done. I'm done with that team. Pull it, make it. That's exactly where I was going, just like your second story. That person's done, okay, they're not engaged, they're disengaged and they need to leave, or?
Speaker 2:make a change, or make a change or something that's right.
Speaker 1:And if you find yourself not engaged in an organization? If you're, you know. If you're not engaged, how do you get to engage Right? If don't? That's what I was talking about. You know bad habits and all that earlier You're disengaged. At that point, that's when you need to go find something to inspire yourself.
Speaker 2:Right, right, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:And it might be doing multiple things and not something you're doing today. Yeah, but that's okay.
Speaker 2:You know. Back to your point on engagement. What were those numbers, those national Gallup poll numbers on engagement?
Speaker 1:Well, the latest status I have is the Gallup poll. Us workforce is engaged was 33 percent. Engaged. Engaged 33 percent. Not engaged 51. Not engaged what that is, that's where you're just borderline and you can go up or down. You know you're just and you can go up or down. You know you're just, you're more than there, but you're not much more than there. It's not like story one that you told that person's talk. That is engagement Right, because they're saying I got to bring my A game because this is an A game group, yes, and I want to be better, and that person will grow and develop in that group.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1:And then if you're disengaged that's around 16% in the latest poll Okay, that's when you just need to go find engagement. Right, that's right, do it, do it. Don't wait. That's right, go do it. That's my encouragement, because life is just too short to feel that way.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know, but that 51% disengaged. That's an opportunity. Now I know I see the world through rose-colored glasses, I understand that, but that I don't see them as being, oh, let's not go put effort into them. I absolutely see them as the group we need to go pour into and aspire to use in our other stories and get them into the engaged.
Speaker 1:And, as a leader, you should know where your group is. You should know your people well enough, your direct reports, you should know them well enough to know where they are. Listen, it comes to leader of setting down and I will tell you, I had great leaders in my career at Walmart and other places where they would point out to me, not annually, but as needed, where. Okay, andy, this is some things you really need to work on. Those are great productive conversations that you and your leader have together.
Speaker 1:And, as I said earlier and I'm going to underline this one more time as we mature in business and age, we have these habits we create that are sometimes not good. I would want a leader because at Walmart I'll give you this example when I was promoting an officer company, I was about half the age of some of the people reported to me. I was 30 years old and some of them people reported to me I was 30 years old and some of them are older, much older, 20 years at least. And in their career, celia, people had some of the leaders. They'd not sit with them and said let's talk about your leadership. I did that because I didn't know not to do it.
Speaker 2:Right, that's how you were taught. That's right.
Speaker 1:And I would have conversations with people 20 years older than me about here's some things. I see that you really you know, and I remember this one particular time I had this conversation and it's a story, I won't take it long, but this person was at least 20 years older than me and I sat down with him and I had this conversation and I said here's a couple things you, you really need to work on. And then I looked at him. I said I called his name. I said we'll just call it Mike and that's not his name, but and sorry, mike's, but anyway I said we'll just call it Mike and that's not his name and sorry Mike, but anyway. I looked at him and I said you have forgotten more about retail than I know. Now here's my question to you why are you not doing these things? Why are you not doing these things? And I remember he looked at me and he said no one said that to me before. And I said well, you know what our expectation is. You know how we want to lead our teams and the expectation we have of leaders here. So why aren't you doing that work? And that's why I said earlier, as we age sometimes and all we create these bad habits here.
Speaker 1:I was 20 years younger, bringing that bad habit in front of him. I will tell you. We became friends, we respected each other and I remember after he retired, we had great conversations and he would always say to me this young guy then, thank you for being so honest with me. That's what you're talking about. That's right. That's what leaders you have to do. You got you. You can't ignore this right because you're doing that individual disservice not only the company or your team, but you're doing a good service. And let me tell you he taught me so much more in the field after that conversation about retail that I didn't know.
Speaker 2:That is the best example of being vulnerable, yes, and therefore open to hear the feedback that is purely meant for you to be better at what you're doing. I mean, it's just a beautiful example, yeah.
Speaker 1:I could tell you so much more about our relationship as it went through the years, but I will tell you I learned so much that day and I remember that day like it was yesterday. This morning that's the impact yes, but that's your role as a leader. Yeah, that is your role. And the six or seven years I spent with Donna Serkis at the Sarkis Center, I just heard this every day, which was so awesome, you know, from a guy that just would talk about it and talk about it and lead it by example.
Speaker 2:You know that reinforces the second pillar, so we started on the third pillar psychological safety.
Speaker 2:The second pillar is clarity, and what you're saying and I I was able to experience it as well with dawn um was water on stone. Clarity, it's reinforcement. Your behavior is exactly like what you're asking others to do, and and so they don't just hear words, they see it demonstrated, but it's very clear and it's reinforced. That's the second pillar clarity, and aligning people around a common vision. And then the first pillar is around purpose and mission. We've talked a lot about purpose and mission, so I'm not going to delve any further into that, but those are the three pillars of every high-performing team.
Speaker 2:The research here is deep on what distinguishes and determines a sustainable high-performing team, and those are the three components. But now I want to flip into a tool that I discovered when, actually, we were trying to bring together all the human resource executives at Walmart and we were being guided by corporate Walmart and the vision and the way we were going to interface with each of our different divisions in the organization and we were not performing well. Hr was viewed as very paperwork-oriented, policy-oriented, and we brought in a gentleman whose name is Howard Guttman and he has books, a wealth of books, written on high-performing teams and high performing team behavior. But he left us with the tool that I have used so many times now, andy, and it's called the high performing team behaviors and there are four behaviors that he's called out in his model, called out in his model and that it's testing in fighting, getting organized and high performance.
Speaker 2:The reason this tool and we will post it on the website, yes, um, or you can go on to celia swansoncom and it's posted there as. But the reason this is such a powerful tool for me is twofold. It describes, in quadrant four, exactly what the behaviors are of a high-performing team, and they are clear team goals, the right players in place, clear roles and responsibilities, a commitment to winning for the business over self-interest. Agreed upon protocols for decision making and conflict resolution, a sense of ownership and accountability. Confronting comfort sorry, but confronting is the first step to creating comfort in dealing with conflict, and then a periodic self-assessment. Those are the eight specific behaviors that define a high-performing team.
Speaker 2:Well, how many of us are working on a high-performing team right now? It's very hard to get into that high-performance quadrant. But it also goes back and gives you the behaviors that exist under stage three, and that's getting organized and that's clarifying. You're in the process of creating clarity for roles and goals. You're developing skills that are needed for the team performance, you're establishing procedures, you're giving feedback and you're confronting issues, not people. That's the getting organized stage. The infighting stage is personalization of issues, individuals and members of the team feeling attacked and frustrated, um, finger pointing, tension or control issues. That's in the infighting stage. In the testing stage, where a team just gets formed, is the air is thick. Um, some team members are coming in with a maintaining a facade, fear of confronting individuals and issues a denial of conflict, and team members wary of one another, wanting to really understand. Okay, why are you here and why am I here and how do I create an understanding of the political landscape? When you're in a high performing team, you're not looking at the political landscape.
Speaker 2:It has no impact on you, right, absolutely because you know yeah where you stand, why you're there, and you are all there for the same purpose of excellence. So my challenge when I do high-performing team workshops is I give people a copy of this model and I say where is your team Right, the team that you are working on today? What are the behaviors?
Speaker 1:What stage are you in?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1:Or you could be in multiple stages.
Speaker 2:You could be in between stages, yeah, in between stages you could be transitioning Right, either forward or stages. Yeah, in between stages you could be transitioning either forward or back. Once you get to the high-performing stage, which is very hard to get to, it's pretty easy if there's a change in scope, a change in the leader, a change in a team member, you can fall back into those other three stages. But really taking time to identify and use the language around these behaviors that you're seeing on your team, from your team, is a critically helpful tool to then saying is that really what we want to stand for? Is that how we want to be perceived? Are we achieving this ultimate performance excellence goal? If you're not, then assessing where you are and then consciously moving yourself forward into what are those behaviors that we need to adopt in order to shift into, hopefully, that getting organized team, getting organized stage and then moving to high performance.
Speaker 1:I love this model. That is so good. I love the model too. It's great and I had a chance to see it earlier and when I was reviewing it after our visit recently. Quite frankly, the thoughts that I've shared today around Dinosaur, dequist, your model helped remember model, help remember my mind. You know remember, okay, when I was looking at these high performing teams that's the model, the things, the comments I said about sort of our center, others that's where they come from yeah because?
Speaker 1:that's because, when I read those eight points, what did I think about the one of the best teams I was on?
Speaker 1:right right you know, one of the best teams I was part of Then, a leader that inspired to be the best you know, and I would say to you this take this podcast and go someplace where you can just listen to it and think about you yourself as a leader and then spend some time thinking about your team with Celia's. And you know, download the model, or you can see it on our website, grab it, but download that model and think about it. Spend some time thinking about this.
Speaker 1:And then set your course you know what do you have to do to be ready, what do you have to do to help get this team of yours ready? And then don't hesitate to reach out, reach to you know, message us on linkedin or whatever. But but but go, do this.
Speaker 2:it will change your life it absolutely will change your life because it will change how you're showing up and it will change no matter what seat on that team you hold. You'll be showing up every day with a commitment to move that team's performance forward for no individual benefit of yours other than working on a high-performing team, and that's it. But it's a constant assessment, andyy, and that's why I love your challenge.
Speaker 1:Well I'm bored this please. I hear gracious and strong. I'll recommend it um. And we've had Celia six or more great podcasts right here.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, we have.
Speaker 1:And what the future holds for Celia and I is that we're going to continue to be here with Servant Leadership podcast and, like today, we're going to go deeper and deeper and deeper into this with you and we're going to share not only just our experience and insights but, just like today, where Celia brings another instrument and introduces it to the table and all it's going to be Celia, thank you. Thank you for the past, celia, thank you, thank you for the past. But I will tell you, as I glance back, I am looking excitedly for the future of what you and I are going to talk about with our audience in the future.
Speaker 2:I am too, andy. I think we've I'm proud of what we've put into place with these podcasts and I'm encouraged, to your point, forward looking, that there's so much more that we can tackle in our podcasts, and I'm grateful for you reaching out to me and saying, hey, do you?
Speaker 1:want to do this with me.
Speaker 2:I'm like, yes, I'm thrilled.
Speaker 1:But thank you so much for our viewers and our listeners. It means so much to us. Servant Leadership Today is so much about you and we want to hear from you. So reach out to us on social media and message us, and we'd love to hear your thoughts and comments as we begin to develop the infrastructure for our next sessions together. So, again, thank you so much. It's just wonderful to be here again, celia Swanson, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, andy, thank you everyone for all your listening and feedback. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1:I'm Andy Wilson. Thank you very much. Have a good day.