The Doing Business in Bentonville Podcast
To create an ecosystem that connects leaders of all kinds – industry, community, student, educational, civic, investment and entrepreneurial – to help overcome Omnichannel Retail barriers through exclusive, insight-rich content.
The Doing Business in Bentonville Podcast
Ep. 75 - Revolutionizing Logistics One SKU at a Time Featuring Daniel Zagalowski
Ever wondered how that cereal box ends up on your breakfast table from across the country? This time, we're zooming in on the unsung hero of supply chains with Warp's co-founder and CEO, Daniel Zagalowski. As he wittily flaunts a Nordstrom shirt that rivals his sharp industry insights, Daniel takes us on a whirlwind tour through the complex world of logistics, from the significance of SKUs in grocery aisles to the revolutionary concept of digital twins.
Strap in for a journey into the heart of the freight world where Daniel Zagalowski pulls back the curtain on Warp's innovative strategies in middle mile delivery. We're not just talking trucks and warehouses; we're uncovering the game-changing tactics that outpace the norm, enlightening you on the subtleties of Less Than Truckload shipping, and showcasing how Warp is stirring up the market dynamics. Our conversation is more than just industry talk; it's a blend of humor, style, and that oh-so-valuable clarity, providing a fresh take on the arteries of commerce that keep our economy pulsing.
But wait, there's more! Imagine a freight landscape where startups spark a renaissance of ingenuity, where companies like Plug and Play redefine collaboration and lead the charge toward a brighter future in logistics. Daniel, with a dash of experience from his AxleHire days, shares his vision on creating high-impact solutions that tackle true pain points in the supply chain. If you're hungry for a peek into an industry bracing for a wave of fresh innovation, this episode is your gateway to understanding the exciting transformations ahead.
Welcome to the Doing Business in Bentonville podcast. This is the Whiskered Warehouse Warriors. Boom Harvey with the W. You like that? I've been working on that and Daniel.
Speaker 2:Oh, and you finally have a mascot. We have a mascot.
Speaker 3:We have our whiskers today.
Speaker 1:And Daniel, thank you for putting on that beard for us today. You knew that we were focused on Whisker and Warehouse Warrior, so I appreciate you coming prepared for the podcast. Our last guest, harvey, had, like the Monday morning, kind of no shave. I had a shame.
Speaker 2:That's his look, it works.
Speaker 1:It was great for him, but we're getting there. So, daniel, nice to meet you. My name is Josh Safron. I'm the host of this podcast, with Harvey Williams, our co-host. We run the plug and play team here in Northwest Arkansas, elena and myself. Harvey, I want you to do an introduction, a reminder to the team. Since you boycotted our last podcast and made me go solo, people may forget who you are.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, sorry, bobby, so Will, I don't know how deep do we want to go? I would say that I lead and co-lead the supply chain practice at Plug and Play. On the investment side and the startup side, we are focused on meeting and helping wherever we can. Sometimes that's investing. A lot of times it's not the best founders in the supply chain space and Daniel's working on some really cool stuff, especially in middle model. So excited to chat, daniel, do you want to maybe flip a quick intro yourself?
Speaker 4:Yep, sounds good. Hi everybody, my name is Daniel Zagalowski, co-founder CEO here at Warp. I've been in logistics my whole life. I've kind of touched everything in the space from on-demand food delivery at my first startup that was a food delivery marketplace, last mile logistics on a national level with Accelerator, and then, as of about two and a half years ago now, focused on middle mile and kind of broader supply chain about two and a half years ago now focused on middle mile and kind of broader splatching and the shirt it's booming.
Speaker 4:I love that shirt. Thank you guys. You know we got it. We got it. You know we have to look fresh. You know we work with a lot of retailers and stuff like that. So you know, once in a while clothes fall off the truck.
Speaker 2:I'm just joking, Daniel. Can we give the brand a little shout out? What shirt is that? I don't want to go buy one.
Speaker 4:I'll double check. I think it's some Nordstrom. Whatever, I'll let you guys know later on.
Speaker 2:There's a PG podcast here.
Speaker 1:We didn't need to see. I'm glad that you kept the shirt on.
Speaker 4:I got a little nervous for a second.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna lie, yeah, yeah, it's not, it's not that kind of supply chain podcast. All right after harvey slurps his coffee, we're gonna move to elena flawless elena has got an icebreaker and, daniel, I need to let you know I am the host of the icebreaker and I'm not very good, so I'm going to need your help because it's you competing against Harvey and I stink at this, so bear with me, but I think we can do better than me and you together, than me and Harvey together, Elena, what are we doing?
Speaker 3:All right, guys. So today we're going to play a little catchphrase. So Josh is going to describe a word on a piece of paper and you guys are going to try to guess it. Harvey versus Daniel. The points don't actually matter, but one of you will be crowned the winner. You have one minute and we're going to see how many points we can get.
Speaker 2:Josh, the points don't matter.
Speaker 3:The pressure is on you, but we are.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter, the pressure is on you, we are going to crown a winner?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yep.
Speaker 2:That doesn't make sense. I'm ready, just brag. It's just bragging rights.
Speaker 3:You know who doesn't want those You're going down.
Speaker 1:Do you want to go first or do you want to go last?
Speaker 3:No, no, no.
Speaker 1:They're going to shout them at you. Oh, I just See, I just gets the point. And what's over under? On accuracy, are we going to get to over one and a half Like, are we going to be able to get? Last time we got zero.
Speaker 3:We got one.
Speaker 1:I cheated at the last second.
Speaker 2:Are you drawing?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I am. I am reading. I think that's why I got the glasses on and you guys are guessing, so shout out the answer first. Elena give us the 3, 2, 1 countdown.
Speaker 3:All right, Ready guys. One minute timer 3, 2, 1. Go ahead.
Speaker 1:An item on the shelf at a grocery store is called a. What SKU? Perfect, harvey, you got that. I am good at this right now. Okay, this is three words. Okay, ready. Not the first child, but the third child, not the first. No, the give me the first one, the front, not the first child. Terrible clue. The first word is not the first child or the third child. If you are the last second child, you are. That's my delivery, what that's?
Speaker 1:my delivery youngest child it's the second child called, not the middle child called, not the first Middle child. Minimile yes, perfect Harvey, I was so good at that. Wow. Mary-kate and Ashley Twins yes, and what would be? What's the trick? Digital twin, oh my.
Speaker 4:God. Come on guys, daniel, I sold out Harvey. You're an expert on this.
Speaker 1:Ten seconds, 10 seconds. Not the person who's flying the plane, but the person sitting next to him is the Go pilot, go pilot.
Speaker 4:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:Two one time. Wow, All right, Harvey Daniel. Harvey got three, Daniel got one. You guys did way better than last time we tried this. But, Harvey, bragging rights are all yours. It was all me.
Speaker 2:It was my clues. Quite honestly, this kind of feels like Beat Bobby Flay a little bit yeah.
Speaker 1:I kind of like this segment. I mean, I actually studied those for a long time as Daniel was a few minutes delayed no offense, daniel and it gave me time to study these clues. So thank you, guys, for I picked the easy ones.
Speaker 4:Nice, Nice, yeah, next time we can do a cook-off. I'll tune in for my kitchen. We'll see Harvey. We'll see who wins.
Speaker 2:That one, I'm down. I'm 100% down for a rematch of the culinary variety. If you're coming to our next event, there's going to be a hot wings challenge, daniel. Maybe you and I are cooking up the wings, I don't know. Yeah, let's try.
Speaker 1:Well, harvey, you are a winner today, so you should feel good, no matter what happens the rest of the day. So you should feel good, no matter what happens the rest of the day. You were the winner and you beat Daniel.
Speaker 2:So you should just feel good about that. Yeah, thank you, josh.
Speaker 1:I really needed a little pump up here, you know early on a Tuesday. All right, daniel, we're on to you. Tell us about Warp, tell us about what you're doing, give us the 30-second pitch and overview on you and the company.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely no-transcript to actually basically do all of the thinking of a professional logistician right. And on top of doing all the thinking, there's enough providers that are already out there where you don't have to actually build your own capacity. You can actually go out and leverage existing capacity that are out there by providing them with a better technology and doing better decision making for them to kind of connect it as part of a larger thing. So I did that with food delivery right connect restaurant digitized restaurants, digitized drivers connected to with a web app and then kind of go last mile delivery was similar connects rotation facilities, connect drivers, connect customers and kind of do the routing and stuff in the middle.
Speaker 4:Now, the middle mile, there's a lot more steps. It's a much more complicated supply chain that we focus on, but we're basically helps brands and retailers get their product into their omni-channel experience better. So we pick up and deliver inbound goods into their distribution centers, move freight from DCs into fulfillment centers, from fulfillment centers to last mile providers, to stores, returns from stores and kind of. You know they take advantage of like Warp's capability to connect all of those pieces together and find like hidden efficiencies out of merging.
Speaker 2:And how do you think? How do you think about the middle mile in particular? Right, because there's a lot of buzz around last mile, of course, and there's a little bit less buzz but still palatable for first mile. Um, middle mile is not an area that we're seeing a whole lot of activity in, so kind of how did you get here? I mean, obviously your actual higher background probably influenced that, but would love to get your perspective there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely so. Um, I think on our side, like I'll explain what middle mile means to us, right, just so that I think we're all on the same page from like a verbiage perspective. But for us middle mile is like the transportation of freight starting from the point of manufacturing or the point of domestic origin, right, so it can land in the us. It can, it can be produced here, it can be packaged here, whatever is kind of like the last value added service for that particular freight, and it's moving those goods from that inbound supply chain into a distribution center, right From in brick and mortar the customer is actually doing the last mile, and walking or driving over to the store. In e-com it's a UPS driver or FedEx driver that's doing the last mile, and so in that case it's from the DC to the fulfillment center to like basically the very last last mile node, right. So if you're moving freight let's say you're a retailer that's buying freight from vendors in Atlanta, right nearby a port, whatever it may be, and then delivering to customers in California from your fulfillment center in Pennsylvania, then basically what happens is that we can manage all the way from Atlanta to Pennsylvania. You wait for the order to come in, you do your pick and pack and then we move it from Pennsylvania to California in whatever fashion is best, and then the e-commerce provider, like a UPS, fedex, name, your regional Basically we bring it off to their final facility and they actually do the last mile delivery to the customer.
Speaker 4:So that's like what middle mile is to us, and so, like you know, when I'm thinking about that, it's actually a bigger market than Last Mile.
Speaker 4:You have larger kind of revenue amounts per transaction, right, we used to in Last Mile, they're basically fighting between $5 to $10 price point to deliver a package over a few zones in the us, right, and so if you think about, like, the amount of work that goes in to like perfectly delivering a package across multiple regions and charging eight dollars for that, it's almost like wow, like that's crazy, you know, um, and obviously you need like volumes, like economies of scale and a huge amount of volume and things like that for it. Um, but with middle mile, you know, the transactions are, you know, anywhere from 10 to 200 times that, you know, per transaction. Your margin is, again similarly proportional to the margin that you would get in a last mile package, and so there's a lot there. And also I feel like in a lot of cases last mile has, like it's pretty solved now right, like you don't see some crazy automation, you don't see some like crazy stuff happening right um in last mile. But with middle mile there's a huge amount of opportunities.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you a question, because you focus quite a little bit on ltl and the optimization of ltl. I think, um, I think people just take for granted that it's just not an efficient option, um, but you've chosen to talk about specifically optimizing the ltl space. Why and and how are you finding and ways to make them much more efficient?
Speaker 4:um, you know, I think on our side of it, like, if you really think about ltl sorry, let me do this um, basically, if you, if you think about, like, what is ltl and and what is everything, ltl is very similar to air travel. You basically have a bunch of terminals spread all over the country. These terminals are airports. I don't know if you guys can see the quotes, but basically the terminals are airports. You have freight that's being picked up and delivered locally, that comes inbound into this terminal, and then you have larger trucks that are basically moving freight in between these terminals, right? So if you're going from la to chicago, you know you can go direct via full truckload or you can take a one stop or two stops. You know, however, that you want to and you can kind of optimize the network from there, and the biggest kind of flexibility that you have as a shipper right, I mean, like, you can change your product, you can change all different stuff, but the biggest flexibility that you have as a shipper is actually the, the speed, right, and how quickly that you needed to get there, and so the more time that you have, the cheaper that you can have a rate to be, and you know, the less time you have to pay more money, etc. And then we hear about hotshot, right, and all those pieces. Um, but I think like, if you really think about it, these asset-based network businesses, right, like ltl, air, air travel ports, right, like where you're talking about huge, heavy, fixed cost of infrastructure, significant amount of training, significant amount of time that's put in to actually making sure it's well-oiled, and all those components We've been able to basically, first off, do all of that at a fraction of the time because we're going out and building a technology layer and empowering third-party terminals to actually take part of this larger network. So it's almost as if we you know, like I just flew into LAX last night it's almost as if we go to like Van Nuys Airport, right, and not even, not even Burbank, but like Van Nuys Airport, and we say, hey, as long as you use this technology, we can make your business like a smaller LAX. You know, are you willing to do this? And, of course, right. They gain efficiencies, they gain more volume, they gain more revenue. We manage their entire business, we tell them how exactly to do everything, and the operator basically becomes a real estate owner with a staffing and some forklifts or pallet jacks in the middle. So I think it's been pretty simple for us to go out and create this hub and spoke network like a virtual hub and spoke network.
Speaker 4:I think where we really drive, a lot of the efficiency is actually a lot of the LTL carriers aren't that great on the first mile and the last mile, and what I mean by that is because they own their own trucks. Right, if you're analyzing an LTL carrier, right, let's take an XPO. It's not worthwhile for an XPO to buy small vehicles in a market like Los Angeles or in a market like Chicago, whatever it may be, because they have large amounts of freight. They need to move it. This, especially the way that they're using the trailers. They're picking it up and then those trailers are going out. The pups are basically going out and moving across the country from there. So you can't really be like, hey, I'm going to use this local truck and then cut it out from potentially being able to do a longer haul for me or potentially having to accept more volume, whatever else.
Speaker 4:And also a lot of the routing that the LTL companies do is pretty similar to like a UPS. Right, like you have a driver, they're assigned to their zone. Pickups come in within that zone. The driver picks it up as long as they have the space to. If not, you wait until the next day, or they call a second driver, whatever else it may be. So, on the first mile and last mile piece of it, which is like you know what's happening within the local area, everything is routed dynamically.
Speaker 4:We're digitally dispatching. Again, we're operating with a network. Right, that's multi, like multi-capable, it's multimodal is one thing, but, like, even within the same mode, which is ground, we're using everything from providers with cargo vans, 18 foot box trucks, 24 foot box trucks, 26, 30. You know how many different vehicle types there are that you can possibly use for this, and so we try to optimize all of that inbound or outbound volume and then select the best proper, like the best possible vehicle for that specific route, and so I think that drives a lot of efficiency for us too.
Speaker 4:So, kind of like to go back and break it down're, um, we use our software to empower, um, you know, a network of smaller warehouses to basically take part in the ltl network. We've made it really fast and easy for them to work with us and so because of that, we've cut down the time and cut down the cost of operating buildings, like that, um, and on the other side of it, like the first mile, last mile, routing, as well as our kind of like strategy and approach to our network within these areas both, I think, together go out and drive a lot of efficiency and then like the market to market, region to region stuff is something that we're like. We're now like grinding our teeth on.
Speaker 2:So multiple options when it comes to, you know, branching out beyond just your class A vehicles, and then you guys also have a cross docking solution, right? How does that work?
Speaker 4:How does that play out? Yeah, absolutely so. We look at our network as a very modular right, so you can use us locally for same day, next day, type of pallet move, freight move, whatever it may be those vehicles can do hotshot from, literally place your order, the vehicle's there for pickup within an hour to two hours. You can do that for next day. Where we pick it up today, bring it back to the crosstalk, go out and deliver it tomorrow within that same area. You can connect regions together. But the way that we do it is now you can also go out and just use the cross-talking solution right. So because we built up this platform, because we've put in rate tables, all this system in place specifically for the cross-talks, now we've kind of exposed that to the shippers directly and we say, hey, I just need to use this cross-talk for, you know, a couple days, for a month or whatever it may be, and so they can kind of use us on a modular basis also.
Speaker 1:Daniel, the podcast is hosted by and focused in Bentonville. Obviously, we have Walmart JB Hunt Tyson headquarters here, and then anybody that's a supplier shipping to Walmart is housed and hubbed here with large supply chain teams. As you're speaking to that audience specifically, what are you wanting them to understand about you and the reason that they can get value from from you and work, and, obviously, why they would want to be spending time, uh, talking to you after this podcast?
Speaker 4:absolutely, I think typically a larger company like goes out and looks at us like not not us like any startup. That's kind of within our state, two and a half years old, um, you know, relatively young team, relatively like new, new thing that they're doing and you know kind of. You know basically like out there, um, first off, like talk to us right, like analyze if there's even some kind of possibility, right like don't be afraid, don't be shy, to actually have a conversation with us. Uh, we don't bite uh. But then I think, on the uh, you know, on the other side of it is that like we've actually been able to go out and offer a service offering as well as a solution to some of these shippers. That's not just more compelling and like sounds better than you know, than than a lot of like these old legacy solutions that are out there, but it actually is better, right and like our quality is is, you know, in in some cases, bar none right now.
Speaker 4:We take a lot of pride in like how we work, how we're operating and yeah, I mean, we've been in like Warp has been in business for two and a half years, but myself, our team, we're a team of, you know industry experts, veterans, that like have kind of come together to offer this brand new thing out there to the market and it works like, check us out, like you know, look at us from the outside in, but also look at us under the hood right, run a sample with us, see how it works.
Speaker 4:Like I really believe that this type of model is the future of LCL, right, like, what more can you do in LTL other than like buy out, you know, yellows, old warehouses at auction? Right, but like I like, I think now, like, what is more, and how do you push that next limit is, you know, as a company like warp, right, like we've we really take, have taken on a unique approach to how we, how we, participate in this industry. Um, we, we have a very unique solution that's out there and and it works and and just check us out and see if it can work for you and on the topic of scouts, see if it can work for you.
Speaker 2:And on the topic of scale-ups, I think that's important to the audience to know, especially. You know, can we go a little bit further? How many team members do you have? Like? Where are you operating right now geographically, like can we give the audience a sense for the operations that Warpath has today?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so our corporate team, which is kind of like we have three teams you can say. So we have corporate, which is about 22, 23 people. We have our engineering office that's about another 19 or 20 people. That's in Vietnam, and then we also have a call center in Colombia. That's another like maybe 12 people or so, and so basically that's like the team size.
Speaker 4:No-transcript prove it out. We want to show them we can make an impact right away onto their business. We can come in, get more efficiency for them and kind of go, um, we've been pretty successful with businesses that are, you know, uh, large and we go out and roll out with them. So I wouldn't say like we're we're capped from a scale perspective, right, like the system is doing a lot of the work. We vet the carriers, like over time is getting more and more automatic and require less work for us to do too. So just about, like, getting a good scale-up plan with us figuring out how to roll out the offering across their networking, like we've had, uh, we have a major like brick and mortar retailer right now that basically has taken us on from everything from their inbound supply chain to the store deliveries, store returns, e-commerce returns right. So like they've really, like over the past year and a half, have started using us for every single piece of their supply chain. Um, and you know they've had amazing results.
Speaker 4:Right, like they've really over the past year and a half, have started using us for every single piece of their supply chain and they've had amazing results.
Speaker 4:They've been able to generate much quicker cash flow. We're giving them visibility to inventory and transit. Their stuff is getting to the stores in a more accurate method. The store managers and the unloading team has a way easier time because we provide the tracking, we provide the links. We're able to go out out, cut down the time in transit because in a lot of cases where they're used to be using another ltl network, they actually have the volume for us to go out and skip particular stops there. So whereas before they used to have a seven day time in transit and a lot of trucks showing up at their facility on either a daily or a weekly basis, now they have a five or six day time in transit and like fewer trucks showing up at their facility because the entire truck is just their volume, and so we've been able to like kind of take on those components and really grow it out across the board. So you know it easily works for other retailers.
Speaker 1:So you did a great job of pre-answering my next question. So I don't know if Harvey would have texted you what I was going to ask, but you did a good job of answering that, because a lot of our partners are into the show me right, like the show me state here, which is not in Arkansas, Harvey, by the way, we're not the show me state, but they're looking for numbers, they're looking for facts, they're looking for things that said, when you roll out this pilot, this is some of the data and numbers. So give me a different example than the one that you just used with another partner. Give me an industry and give me some numbers like how much more efficient, how much in dollars generated were saved, how much faster was an on-time and full show up. Give me some numbers that people will be super excited about to say that there's no way these guys are that good.
Speaker 4:Yeah so let me I'll give you a couple different examples. So just recently we just onboarded a flooring company. So basically they sell luxury vinyl flooring to installers throughout the southern US. So it's kind of like on the Sunbelt. They basically right now they have a sales team that goes out to different installers hardware stores, some larger brick and mortar stores, some super small mom and pop ones, right. So they have sales people that go out. They're sending samples, they're getting contracts, they're getting deals done, whatever it may be. They're putting orders in and they operate um.
Speaker 4:They have a couple different ways that they do logistics. So they have a warehouse um around every region that they basically send this flooring out. So sales people calls them up or puts in an order into their system, says hey, we got these. You know four pallets of whatever product that are going to this particular location. That order is fulfilled at one of these like five warehouses across the country. They pick and pack it, they ship it out and they either send it using their own fleet Okay, so at every every warehouse they operate their own fleet that services like 100, 150 mile radius from there. They also use ltl when the orders are like outside of that coverage area and they use full truckload when the orders are larger um than ltl and stuff. And then you know they'll use like parcel for like a small thing, like samples or whatever else, traditionally.
Speaker 4:So a couple of different things. They did their own routing, right, they were literally using MapQuest to do routing. It's like you know it's 2024. You don't even know like MapQuest still exists, I think it's down there with like FreshDirects or something you know. But basically you know they use MapQuest. They do their LTL booking basically via like some portal that they go out and type in every single order to. They do their full truckload booking over an email. They do their parcel booking by like going to like upscom and generating like shipping labels and then basically across all of these, they you know there's like at least one person working on every single one of the warehouse and they're responsible basically for everything from you know, making sure that orders are in accurately, making sure the drivers have their PODs, making sure that everybody you know basically has the routes for the next day. The LTL stuff gets billed, the FTL stuff gets emailed right.
Speaker 4:All those pieces we came in. And I'll tell you this is just from platform perspective. So there's two pieces of optimization for it, one which is like workflows and platform, right. So, there, what we changed was we put our system in orders now flow in from SAP to our system. You know, this person basically has to do nothing, right, and they can basically make sure they're communicating with the drivers, and what that's allowed them to do is actually pivot their mentality throughout the day. Right, like particular one that you know, stephanie, and like the LA facility, she was basically going out all day worried about hey, I have drivers, or there's drivers calling me, I got to dispatch this, or I got to make sure the paperwork is ready, or one of her biggest hurdles was actually the PODs. Every single time the drivers would get back, and then what would happen is that they would also have to pay the drivers to go back to the warehouse every single day.
Speaker 1:Daniel, we're coming up close on time. I want to thank you for coming on and joining us today. We'll kind of wrap up with you in a minute. Going through your website, how people can find you, how they can connect with you, harvey. It going through your website, how people can find you, how they can connect with you, harvey, I always want to end our segments asking you, as a resident guru, somebody who is a lead investor in this space for Plug and Play what are you seeing? First mile, middle mile, last mile, what innovation are you seeing? Is this a space where corporate partners should be further engaged with a company like Plug and Play and try to solve some of these challenges Technology-wise? I'd love your lens in this space, please.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I kind of want Daniel to agree or disagree with me, but I think this is a hard space, right, it's a hard space for startups to get involved. I think we, as an industry, we oversaturated the entire digital freight market, turned it into a bit of a bubble itself, and I'm not talking about what happened recently with Convoy. I'm going even further, back to 17 and 18, when there was just this deluge of options, whether it was long haul FTL, ltl, whether it was marketplaces people trying to be a marketplace ended up just being a digital brokerage. How did you really know what was going on and what was happening? Daniel, from your days in axle hire, I'm sure you have an entirely, uh, a very unique perspective in that area, um, but I do think the dust has settled to an extent. I think, um, just with the way that the macroeconomic environment is happening in the freight industry, I think opportunities are starting to present themselves again.
Speaker 2:I I think what Daniel's building is a really cool wedge. It's a product and it's a solution that's going after a real pain point, and it's not just the easiest digital option for a very archaic industry, which is something that you need to be on the lookout for. So I'm a big fan, daniel. But yeah, I mean, if you are in this industry, either on the innovation side or you're on the logistics and transportation side, I think it is a safe moment in time to re-engage and to start looking at these solutions again, because we have gone through the hype cycle and the trough of disillusionment if you're familiar with the Gartner methodology and we're hopefully now going to start seeing a lot more of a kind of a second wave, something even called a third wave of innovation on the freight side of the house. So solutions like Warp are attacking it in a very unique way. So that's my two cents on the matter.
Speaker 1:All right, daniel, thank you so much. Appreciate you spending time with us today. I'm sorry that you lost in the contest up front, but you're a winner to me, I mean, and that's the most important thing in life, and we're excited to have you on again and hear what you're working on.