The Art of Reinvention: Paul Overton on Sustainable Design and Creative Flow

In this inspiring episode of The Painterly Life Podcast, host Shannon Grissom sits down with designer and creative visionary Paul Overton, founder of Object Lesson Interiors. From his art-filled childhood to his innovative approach to sustainable design, Paul shares how his TGIF method (Thrifted, Gifted, Invented, or Found) reshapes how we think about interiors and creativity.

Together, Shannon and Paul explore the dance between imagination and technical skill, the power of meaningful design, and the lessons learned from navigating client relationships. Paul opens up about creative limitations, the value of rest and reflection, and how nature continues to inspire his work.

Tune in for a rich, down-to-earth conversation filled with wisdom, humor, and practical insights for living—and creating—with intention.

Chapters

• 0:00 Igniting Creativity and Inspiration
• 1:15 Childhood Influences and Artistic Beginnings
• 2:31 The Journey into Sustainable Design
• 3:57 Understanding the TGIF Method
• 6:41 Balancing Creativity and Technical Skills
• 8:18 Navigating Creative Blocks
• 10:47 The Importance of Meaning in Design
• 12:37 Creating Balance in Spaces
• 15:16 Teaching and Inspiring Others
• 17:56 Creative Responses from Students
• 19:38 Working with Limitations
• 21:52 Client Relationships
• 23:25 The Role of Time in Design
• 23:54 Embracing Fallow Periods
• 28:09 Practicing Mindfulness and Presence
• 31:14 Small Steps to Enhance Creativity

Transcript

Shannon Grissom (00:05)
Hi, I'm Shannon Grissom. Are you looking to ignite your creativity? Or how about be inspired by a steady stream of muses? Welcome to Painterly Life, the podcast that celebrates those who create, inspire, and innovate. So whether you're looking to spark your next big idea, reignite your passion, or simply soak in some creative energy,

This is the place for you. Painterly life, where every guest is a new muse, just for you.

Well, hello, welcome to the Painterly Life podcast. I'm your host, Shannon Grissom. Today we are joined by Paul Overton, the creative mind behind Object Lesson Interiors. Paul transforms thrifted, gifted, invented, and found treasures into soulful, sustainable spaces that tell a story. And boy, do they. Welcome, Paul.

Paul Overton (01:14)
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Shannon, how are you?

Shannon Grissom (01:17)
Hey, I'm doing great. Good. So I was wondering, you know, as a kid, I was always redesigning my bedroom and my parents were really cool about letting me just have at it. So what was your childhood like?

Paul Overton (01:31)
Oh, my child. Well, I'm a child of two artists. so that I'll give you a. I'm Generation X as well. So we were left to our own devices a lot in our generation. And so I was allowed to do a lot of things probably that kids aren't allowed to do today. I was, know, I got to make a lot of things. I got to create a lot of stuff, a lot of artwork when I was a kid. I used to sit next to my dad while he did paintings and I would try to do the same painting he was doing when I was little, things like that. So I've always had that in my master.

degree is actually in technical theater. I was a scenic artist for a while and a prop man, a set designer, and general dog's body around theater for a long time. So I've always been around the arts and always been creating stuff.

Shannon Grissom (02:14)
Wow, I mean, what an incredible experience to be raised by two artists. That's just awesome. ⁓ So what what got you into sustainable design?

Paul Overton (02:20)
there are ups and downs

Well, I've always had sort of an eco-bent with everything that I've done. And ⁓ I love designing interiors, but the industry itself is heavily weighted toward new things, toward replacing things every couple of years. And I've always had a real penchant for antiques and ⁓ used things and vintage things. And in fact, I owned a vintage store for a little while.

And I just love taking unexpected things that have a history to them and putting them in other contexts in spaces and making design out of that. And so, yeah, I've just always, I've always tried to do as much as I can with as little as I can. That's the other thing that I try to get across to my clients is we don't need to spend a whole lot of money. You probably have a lot of things sitting around already that just aren't styled in a way, or just aren't being used effectively in a way.

And we can take those things, things that are meaningful. That's the other thing, things that are meaningful to the client, know, parts of their history, gifts they've received, things that they've picked up at flea markets, things like that, and put them in different contexts in their house. it becomes more of an ensemble of things that relate to each other rather than just a random series of objects that are lying around and not styled.

Shannon Grissom (03:45)
Well, yeah, it the meaningful is is is the key. So can you talk about you've got a TGIF method? Can you talk about that and explain that for us?

Paul Overton (03:49)
Thank you.

Sure, thrifted, gifted, invented or found is the acronym that I use all the time. So thrifted obviously are things that you have purchased from flea markets, thrift stores, Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist, other things like that. Gifted, of course, are things, gifts that have been meaningful to you that your family or your friends have given you or things that they can give you, you can ask for, things like that. Invented are things that we make together usually. So that can be pieces of art, that can be pieces

furniture that can be different vignettes in the house that are made of different things and then found are things that we you know you find on the street or it's a dumpster find or it's you know things that are basically free and are come upon in some way and I find a lot of things like that as well in fact they just did this week and I was just volunteering at the Point Richmond

dumpster day down in the bay area and that's when all the residents of point richman can throw away something they don't and every year that I do that I swear I pull out at least like ⁓ half a dumpster full of stuff that is just absolutely their new or had can have a new life for it or what I just packed my car at the end of every one of those days garden pots and of the idea you know ⁓ brand new ikea furniture in the box and it's amazing what people throw away it really so if you can if you can get in ⁓ getting something like that ⁓ or you

or the bulky waste pickup day is another great way to find used things, right? If you know, especially if you know some more wealthy neighborhoods around where you live, if you can drive around on bulky waste pickup day, it's incredible what goes in the garbage, honestly. You can just cruise around the night before and just be picking up all kinds of stuff. So those are the four, thrifted, gifted, invented, or found. And that's where we start with every client.

Shannon Grissom (05:44)
I was wondering along those lines, is there a certain aspect of TGIF, one of those components that sparks your creativity first or is it just all random depending on the situation?

Paul Overton (05:56)
It depends on the situation what people own already for me personally I love the thrifted aspect of it because I love going to flea markets I love flea market people I used to be a flea market vendor for a while so I love to I love that I love that vibe all the time I love that I love the people who do it I love to bargain as well you know I love to negotiate and I love to see everybody come out with a win-win in that situation and so yeah I really like thrifted luckily luckily in the Bay Area we have one of the best flea markets in the country in the Alameda Antiques Fair that happens every month

And then there's lots of other little flea markets that are also really great. Oakland Vintage Fair, know, smaller things, things that are just clothes, things that are just furniture. So we have a, we're ⁓ spoiled for choice in terms of flea market and thrifting around the Bay Area, that's for sure.

Shannon Grissom (06:41)
Well, I know you've a technical background and the creative side and you do a podcast. How do you balance all of that?

Paul Overton (06:52)
⁓ well, it's always a trick, right? mean, some things are very scheduled, like the podcast is very scheduled, as you know, that kind of thing. But the creativity takes me, you know, where it will a lot of the time. If I'm not working for a client, if I'm doing creative things myself, like I used to make a lot of lamps out of, ⁓ I still do, but I used to make a lot more lamps out of antique objects that I'd find at flea market, old space heaters and, you know, things like that.

You know, that's just when it strikes me. just made a lamp the other day and I had made a lamp in a few months, but it's just fun. the object is there. The inspiration is there, you know. So some ways I wait for inspiration and sometimes I kind of push it, you know, and go, you need to be doing something, you know, with your hands for sure. I can always tell when I need to be doing something creative that's not on the computer because my body just says, you don't, can't sit here. You have to go do something else, you know? And so I usually go put my hands in the dirt. You know, I work in the garden or I'll pot something or I'll, you know, I'll propagate some plants.

or I'll make a lamp or something like that. It's always a very clear delineation for me, like when I need to not be sitting around anymore, need to do, my mother calls it Craft Deficit Disorder, right? When you absolutely need to do something with your hands, but you don't really have an idea, but you know you gotta go do something. So you might as well get dirty in some way, whatever that is. Even if it's just sweeping the walkway or something, it's a physical thing that uses some creativity.

Shannon Grissom (08:18)
That's a perfect name for it. Do you ever run out of ideas? Do you ever get blocked?

Paul Overton (08:25)
yeah i would be depends on what it depends on what medium i'm working out to get writers block that's that's one what's one thing I write quite a bit and so that that ⁓ sometimes I have come up with themes and things like that for some groups that are running sometimes I get blocked with that stuff but in terms of ⁓ in terms of creating physical things I don't really get blocked I mean the object itself gives me so many ideas like when I see when I see an object if I would like to make a lamp and I see something at the flea market I already have finished that project in my head so I

know exactly how it's gonna go because I've done enough of them or I'm like okay I look and I see the level of difficulty I'm gonna go through like how much I need to take apart you know how many tiny pieces there are is there a place to put a light bulb in there all these other things you know where can I hide the cord and you know if all those things are check check check then I'm just buying that object and it's done there's no inspiration needed because I already finished it in my head you know it's just picking a color or leaving it patina or whatever that I have to choose from there

Shannon Grissom (09:24)
So for the writer side of it, how do you get yourself out of there? How do you push yourself over the...

Paul Overton (09:32)
Well,

I don't use AI to write, but I do use AI for idea generation sometimes. Sometimes I'll have longer conversations about, you know, just making different connections, I find. So I might have a central idea, but then I want to, it's not long enough. I want to spin off that idea into something else, you know, where I need to have several levels of that idea or things that relate to that idea. So I'll often put in my premise or something like that and ask ChatGPT or whatever to spin off different related things.

and I'll take the inspiration from that. So I find AI writing terrible, using AI for conversations, especially philosophical conversations, I find very helpful, very helpful. Because you can pull a lot of information together all at one time very quickly. That's what I like about it. So as a research tool, I find it fascinating and very cool. As a creative tool, I'm very suspicious of it I don't like it. In terms of it generating art and writing and things like that, I'm against that. But as a research tool, it's phenomenal.

I

Shannon Grissom (10:33)
Yeah, I agree. So let's go back to the central core of meaning and making meaning. Can you talk about the meaning aspect of your work?

Paul Overton (10:47)
Sure, I mean everything that everything in my house you can see a lot of stuff behind me is kind of blurry now But everything in my house has some kind of meaning ⁓ to me one way or another and if it doesn't have meaning I'm not I'm not putting it up and that could be as simple as it sparks an emotion in me It doesn't need to have some kind of nostalgic meaning to me or like there's somebody close to me gave it to me or something It can be something orange, which I love orange, you know, it can be it's something It's things that will evoke the way I want to feel in my home all the time just for me personally

And like whatever anybody else thinks of my home, it doesn't really matter to me. Some people think it's great. Some people walk in and go, wow, there's a lot of stuff on the walls in here and they're kind of overwhelmed. So for me, the meaning part means it just has to be personal to me or personal to the client to do it. And that's why I try to get across people. often take clients to the flea market or shopping and other places and then and I, you know, I tell them, you just.

It's what speaks to you and think about why it speaks to you and think about what the story is that you're telling with that object when you bring it home.

And do you want to live with that story all the time? Or is this like a temporary, is it a temporary flash of emotion where, I love that thing, but in three months, you're not going to love it anymore. And I do change my place quite a bit. I don't take all the art down off the walls and put up new art, but I do change out paintings and I do change out vignettes in the house and make it just freshen it up a little bit so I can be more surprised when I walk through. Because even if you love your house after the thousandth time you walk through the same thing,

maybe it needs a little refresh but I try to refresh with things that I already have or things that I follow the tgif rule but you're generally things that I already have I find just switching things that I already have on two different walls creates a whole other whole other vibe in the place a lot of the time so you know and i have quite a bit of i have quite a bit of things in this in this small space

Shannon Grissom (12:37)
I agree with you know just changing one thing and it's kind of like it's like a domino thing you change one thing and that affects the relationship between this this and this and then absolutely the whole thing has shifted and and and so sometimes I will have shifted it and taken it over the top and have to bring it back and and but that's half the fun right

Paul Overton (13:00)
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting the balance thing in doing in doing that as you say it's a domino effect sometimes where you know You can do one thing and it affects everything absolutely everything else and I find that there's an overall balance in every room that I'm searching for and then there's a lot a lot of little islands of balance that I'm searching for in terms of Vignettes that I'm putting up and things like that in there so I have a lot of flat surfaces all the time because I love objects on tables and tables and bookcases and on the walls and everywhere so those those

change those can change a lot without really affecting the overall balance the overall balance in the room this room that I'm talking that I'm in right now has more to do with the amount of the amount of lighting I have in it and where that's in the furniture placement and generally the big ideas right and then the small ideas can keep changing and they won't really affect the overall thing that much

So I find that if I change the small ideas and freshen those up, then I'm not really throwing a hundred other things out of balance. Whereas if I took the big painting down from behind me, would have to do a lot of work to rebalance that weight at the end of the room, if I was going to use something else. ⁓

Shannon Grissom (14:08)
⁓

I was thinking about balance. If I'm out of balance in my physical space, it affects me internally. ⁓ yeah. Do you find that to be true with you and your client?

Paul Overton (14:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, 100 % yeah, absolutely. You know, I have a lot of a lot of clients who just have the right ideas But the wrong execution a lot of the time and it's just because they don't have experience It's not that they're you know, there's not that they don't have style. They absolutely have style It's just that they haven't had the experience of how to combine things together to make that balance in their space where they feel like when they walk into a room it's like ⁓ Yes, I'm home, you know, I mean that's what I want to feel every when I walk into every room I don't feel ⁓ yeah and a lot of that has to do with clutter in my clients

You know, I try to really not have clutter in my house If one thing comes in then another thing has to leave is my rule a lot of the time You know, I think a lot of people follow that I was kind of minimalist for a while and I've gotten over that but you know I'm not I wouldn't say I'm a maximalist in terms of I have a lot of crap around I would say I'm a maximalist in terms of you know, I have a lot of objects, but they're all very well organized in the house so ⁓ Yeah, so that's that's

Shannon Grissom (15:16)
So you do a lot of teaching. So can you tell me about that in the subjects that you teach?

Paul Overton (15:21)
Sure,

yeah, was to my classes are on hiatus right now, but it usually I've been teaching online through Meetup.com. have a group called Beginning Interior Decoration and that has over 300 members now something like that and I've taught everything from color theory to Tricks to the trade in terms of you know measurements you can use in your house So everything seems more balanced and furniture placement and heights of furniture and relationships between furniture like coffee tables and you know and so all those things that make a space feel

⁓ relaxed and nice to be in. I've taught, gosh, we do a thing called Design Dojo, which I really like, which is a very relaxed thing where I grab 20 pictures from the internet of different spaces and then what we do is we just go through and we discuss those spaces, what we like about them, what we don't like about them with the students. And then I offer guidance on maybe, you know, while they're right on or maybe they could be a little bit off, it could be seen in this direction or that direction. So Design Dojo is really fun because it's much more interactive. I'm not just teaching, teaching, teaching.

But gosh, I've taught almost everything and I taught a class on how to do gallery walls, know, because everybody wants to do a gallery wall now. They all have a lot of artwork and they want to put it up as very popular on apartment therapy and Pinterest to have gallery walls. So I taught one on just gallery walls, ⁓ you know, all kinds of things. I taught one just on the TGI philosophy, you know, on how to find things and how to create meaning in your space. So lots of different subjects.

Shannon Grissom (16:45)
Are you finding that the more interactive classes ⁓ fuel your own creativity?

Paul Overton (16:51)
Bye.

I like the interaction because when you teach online, ⁓ as I do, it's often a... I was a teacher for a long time of adults and kids. so there's nothing that can equal being in the room with other people. I mean, that's really... you really get a feeling for the class that way. It's much harder to do online. So the interaction, ⁓ the interactive classes are... I find them more energetic for me because I'm not just having to carry the whole weight of the entire conversation. People are talking back.

People are taking turns people are stating their opinions and it's just it's just more fun to do that But I enjoy the I enjoy the teaching classes as well and I've got a good core group that is ⁓ Getting better at asking questions and participating in every class no matter what at first nobody would ask any questions I would just do an hour of monologuing on one thing, know, don't know how that went We'll see how the star star ratings are afterwards, right? But now I have a much more interactive base crew that kind of stays in and goes hey, wait a minute Tell me about that, you know kind of thing

And so that's much more to my liking.

Shannon Grissom (17:56)
So what's the most creative response you've had from one of your students?

Paul Overton (18:02)
⁓ most creative response. Gosh, that's, they're all pretty.

Shannon Grissom (18:07)
that they tackled

or something trippy that they did as a result of the class.

Paul Overton (18:14)
Yeah, well, I had one student take up reselling as a career because because she was so inspired by, know, her we did. I went over and did a gallery wall at her house. She started as my student. She ended up being my client and now my friend. Actually, she's really great. But she ended up ⁓ she ended up she was in a job that she wasn't really liking and she started to sell art on the side. And now she's like a used art dealer. It's quite amazing. She did. She did it all in like six months and she's she's making some pretty good money on it. So she goes to

flea markets and estate sales and she's really she really goes to it though she's very serious about it you know she she book keeps well and yeah so that's a very I think that's a very she changed careers I think that's pretty creative yeah and now she's doing something she loves she's making less money but she's doing something she loves and she's still making good yeah especially for a used art market man it's not easy to sell used art sometimes she she's got a good eye though so she picks good stuff she prices it right and yeah

Shannon Grissom (18:55)
Yeah.

Paul Overton (19:10)
And now this is her new thing to do. So I'm very proud of her for just taking the leap and doing that. And it was a big learning curve for her too, to figure out what sells and what doesn't and what she should be looking for. And she's really taken notes and done it 100%. So I'm really proud of her for that.

Shannon Grissom (19:28)
That's really inspiring. I love it when people take off.

Paul Overton (19:34)
The more people who exit the corporate world the happier I am about life.

Shannon Grissom (19:38)
⁓

I'm all about people following their bliss. That's just awesome. Creativity, ⁓ you've got to work with budget constraints, all kinds of restraints, like limited materials or client requests.

Paul Overton (19:47)
So.

Shannon Grissom (20:04)
Can you share a story of how some limitation actually fueled something really cool?

Paul Overton (20:10)
Gotcha, gotcha. I was, I'm thinking about an outdoor project that I did. was a very low budget and what she wanted was a sort of a rustic ⁓ area in different levels for her plants and she wanted a water feature which can be quite expensive depending on what you do and all these other things. And so I solved it by using ⁓ barn wood ⁓ or old fence wood actually. There was a guy near me that was selling ⁓ six foot lengths of fence wood that was gray and really nice.

nice, you know, ⁓ old looking, ⁓ wood for a dollar a board. And so, man, I just filled my car with that. And so I built a, I built the multi-level shelving out of that and some two by four, had four by four, I'd land around. And then I took a, I had an old copper tub that is, with a lid, you know, the kind you did laundry in, you know, way back then. so, I dunno, was 15 gallons or whatever. And you, you've probably seen this in my yard. I made another one for myself, but I made her a, I made her a water feature out

that with some pond plants in it and the whole thing she was really happy with the whole thing because it looked like it had been there forever but it cost I think I spent a total of less than $150 on the entire project including the pump and then the stuff I needed for the pond and the plants and yeah she already had the plants that went on the shelves but all the lumber and stuff was basically under $20 I think I I used 20 of those boards something like that so it's 20 bucks for the boards and some 4x4 I had laying around so that was a pretty good workaround in terms of budget she was really happy with it

Wait, turned out. Yeah.

Shannon Grissom (21:41)
God, that's awesome.

So what's been your biggest challenge in developing object lesson?

Paul Overton (21:52)
uh... in developing Object Lesson i think is to uh... it's relationship i think for the most part you know because there's a lot of people who see what i do and i got out of that's great but then they were not really on the same page and and so i'm i'm really picky with the clients I accept I think so that the client process is the trickiest thing for me because I kind of know when somebody are going to be on the same page and go right now because I'm not going to go by a new white book like couch that's not happen that's that's

It's environmentally terrible. They fall apart fast. know, fast furniture or anything like that. I'm just not going to do that. We can use what you have. We can buy used things. We can even buy some new things, but they have to be of like real quality, you know? So ⁓ there's a whole and also I like to take, I like to develop a space over time. And a lot of people want the space done, done, done. And that's fine. I understand that people are on deadlines and whatever, but if you're making a TGIF space, time is one of the factors.

because you're not gonna get it all done at once. We can do a go through and a base level thing, but then we need to go and seek other objects or move objects or find things to bring in that means something to you. Go into the things that you have from your parents and your grandparents and see what you could put out. So it's a time and development process and not everybody wants to take that ride with me.

The most important thing to me is relationship in the whole business because it's not fun unless your client's fun and wants to go along with you. If I'm going to have a job at all, I want it to be fun. ⁓

Shannon Grissom (23:25)
That totally makes sense. thinking about the, you know, I hadn't thought about the time factor. That's so important. And I think about just in my own home when I'm shifting things, I have to live with things for a little while to see if they truly resonate. might, like you said, they might be this temporary thing. ⁓ So you might not know if a thing is working right away. are some things that are like praying, this is awesome.

others you just gradually move into. that's a really good thought. I had not considered that as a factor.

Paul Overton (24:03)
Yeah, I mean, I treat it like any other form of creativity, you know, when you're painting or anything like that, there's usually I mean, sometimes you nail it right out of the gate. But sometimes a lot of times you have to step back from it go, I'm not really sure. Yeah, I think I need to let that sit for a while and then come back to it. You know, there's a famous story about some I can't some famous artist, maybe, know, who is Matisse or somebody I can't remember. But there would be a point in every painting where he would be completely dissatisfied with it and and overwork it and and be so his wife would hide the painting.

take it away and hide the painting for a couple weeks and he would go nuts and he would just be like where's my painting or whatever and then you know she'd bring it back and he'd finish it in a couple days you know but so it's that it's that kind of thing with interiors it's that kind of thing with a lot of different types of creativity i think you have to step back and say i'm not sure and be okay with that for a little while you know i think we have a

we have a real penchant for finishing things quickly in this country which doesn't always do a service i think sometimes we need to step back and go okay well let me get some perspective on this go away from it for a while come back you know that's everything that's even like doing the crossword I'm stuck on his house back on these good come back to it later did the patients thing is is really important i think we're developing anything that's created

Shannon Grissom (25:18)
I've gained, I think my personality is more go, go, get it done. it has totally taught me patience and humbled me because it's not on my timeframe.

Paul Overton (25:25)
Mine too, believe it or not.

No, it's

very humbling sometimes, isn't it?

Shannon Grissom (25:39)
I mean, I could be at the very, I think the very end of a painting for two weeks. Yeah. So.

Paul Overton (25:49)
Yeah, that's why I'm always amazed at shows like portrait artists of the year or landscape artists of year on BBC. You know, they just, they have four hours to do an entire painting and I'm like, how do you do that in four hours? can't, they can't even think. They just go, go, go put color down. You know, it's amazing. I don't have that skill.

Shannon Grissom (26:05)
I did try to speed up my decision-making process. I did a series of small works and I would set a timer and ⁓ Do like a five by seven in an hour and so this is like a tiny little thing and yeah and then just stop not go back into it because there's a difference between doing a painting and then Knowing you can go back into it, but there's pressure when trying to do that anyway, so I tried that but

Paul Overton (26:31)
for

Shannon Grissom (26:35)
⁓ Bottom line is it's not done until the painting says it's done, and so I'm sure it's the same way with your interiors.

Paul Overton (26:43)
Yeah, I did

a similar exercise with my students actually where I had them take 20 items in their house and then the breadboard out of their out of their kitchen and put the breadboard down and they had to make one vignette per minute and take a picture of it for 15 minutes. So I wanted 15 vignettes at the end of it using those 20 objects in different ways. And I tried to set them up so you you're going to need contrast. So remember what colors and what you're choosing. You're going to need different shapes. You're going to need different levels in order to do it. So you're going to want to go between tall and short and maybe have things you can set other things on.

You're to want to have colors that are in one of the schemes we've talked about. And they did incredible stuff. And I gave them a bunch of photos to work from. I did the exercise myself. And it was really fun. It was really fun. They're not all brilliant, but a couple of them were really brilliant. I'm very happy with that. to iterate in that way, I think, is a great thing for not only speeding you up, but for your creative thinking process. To take the same things and be forced into that. Limitation is great.

for creativity, right? It's just the best thing for creativity is to be if you have an unlimited budget or unlimited options and you're never going to do the best work that you've done in my opinion. I think it's always about how much limitation can you put on yourself and still work your way into something beautiful. Yes, that's what I love about it.

Shannon Grissom (27:59)
Yes.

So how do you keep your creative well-filled?

Paul Overton (28:09)
uh... well i think as i got older one of the things that I did this kind of when i was younger is uh... is that is to relate to the peaks and valleys of creativity as part of the process right now and then that there I go through uh... very rich periods and I got through very fallow periods you know and i think the trick is to take those fellow periods and to understand that this is your chance to rest this is your chance to

consider to think about new things to maybe get out of your comfort zone and maybe then that will propel you back up to the next peak often for me anyway of creativity. when I was younger, I would think like, why aren't the muses talking to me? I I want to be creative all the time. All the time. I want to be making stuff and doing stuff all the time. So often I'll do things like the lamp making thing. I was making tons of lamps because I had a store and I was selling a bunch of them in the store.

And and after a while, I just don't really feel like making lamps anymore So I need to go do something else, know to then get that that passion back if it ever comes back So, you know, it's those fallow periods just relate I just relate to them as necessary necessary rest and recharging for the next peak because if I don't if I spend my whole time being stressed out about not being creative while I'm in the fallow period then I don't have the energy to make it up the next hill a lot of time I feel like you can stay there for a long time if you just

You whatever you resist persists, right? Is what they say. So if you're resisting that fallow period in your creativity, I think it's just going to stay for longer. It's just like, relax into it, let it happen. It's here for a reason. And then you're up to the next peak. Yeah.

Shannon Grissom (29:46)
I love that you acknowledge the fallow period as a gift.

Paul Overton (29:51)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, necessary gift. Yeah.

Shannon Grissom (29:54)
Yeah,

yeah, wow. I'll think about that the next time it happens.

Paul Overton (29:58)
Yeah, right.

It's still uncomfortable. I still don't like it, you know, but I still I still fight against it. I go, oh, this is one of those periods. Right. All right. Well, just relax then. And we'll just write it out till and sometimes they're quite long. Sometimes they can last for months when you're doing commercial stuff. That's not really great because you need to make money. Yes. But if you're doing art as a hobby or something like that, that's OK. It gives you go look at some new stuff. That's what I do. I try to go look at new things. You know, I'll go I'll often go outside, you know, I'll think, OK, well, let's consider

Let's consider this in a micro level out here. Let's look at everything around us. Let's look at what this leaf is doing and how these birds act and this thing, the trees and how everything's related. And sometimes that nature bathing just gives me a whole new sort of organic relationship to spring off of. You know, I love.

Shannon Grissom (30:48)
Yeah. So if along those lines you're at this point when you are in the Fallow period you're engaging with the creative world differently and part of your practice is slowing down ⁓ and being more conscious which is what you're describing. ⁓

Paul Overton (31:13)
or present.

Shannon Grissom (31:14)
What

what's one small step someone can use to add that into their life?

Paul Overton (31:21)
Well, I love slow walking. looks weird when you do it, but like really slow walking, you know, go to go to a place not not around the block because your neighbors just worry about you. ⁓ You don't want that. Go to somewhere in nature. Go to a park or go to the woods or go to where the beach or wherever you're to go. But then walk extremely slowly. So you're being very present to everything around you. And I just try to clear my I just try to clear my head of any other worries or concerns I have for the day. It's a meditative practice, you know, it's meditative.

walking, basically. But in mine, it's sort of a creative meditative walking. It's not just like emptying my mind of everything. It's being present and noticing more things. You can notice incredible things when you're taking your time to do that. And you also realize how much you miss when you're just walking through your day. Some people miss 100%. I mean, it's just their brain saying, OK, don't run into that tree. that's all that they're thinking about. That's all their brain is doing. Otherwise, they're thinking about their taxes, or this, or that.

But it's emptying yourself enough to then be completely present to your environment. And once you do that, you start to notice a lot of things that you wouldn't notice before. And I can go inside or outside, but I love doing slow walks outside because I just notice so many things. I took this brilliant picture of this leaf yesterday that was turning a little bit. had red and orange and yellow and green all in one leaf. And it had this really interesting black part that ran up the side. Great. I would have never noticed that unless I was going slow around my block. Awesome. stuff like that. Yeah. Love things like that.

And mean, meditation is good, too. I also I also have a meditation practice where I do at least 10, 15 minutes a day and sometimes quite longer. That also goes through peaks and fellow periods. Right. There's periods where I just don't want to sit on the cushion. I don't want to do it. And then there's periods where I'm like, I want to meditate all day. You know, depends where I'm at. And, know, ⁓ we beat ourselves up so much for ⁓ I think it has to do with Protestant work ethic and other things like that. And then and just the go grind culture in this country, we beat ourselves.

up so much when we're not doing something or when we're not into anything ⁓ and I think that's it just does a great disservice. It's like you know relax into it it's okay you don't need to be doing things all the time you know it doesn't it's not necessary and in fact it's not good for you to be doing that keeps your cortisol up and you're stressed you can't create well when you when you're stressed you know and so I think those periods need to be embraced more so we can so we can be more ⁓ so we can be better when we come back to the peaks.

Shannon Grissom (33:52)
Yeah, I think that's one of been been one of my own personal biggest challenges is to being accepting that I don't have to be on 24 7 and yeah, yeah, it's Okay to stop

Paul Overton (34:04)
It's hard to get over though, isn't it?

It's okay to stop, but that's not what society tells you. So you really gotta be a rebel here in this case a little bit and say, no, I'm not doing that. I'm not gonna follow the crowd. I'm not gonna grind myself into the grave. I'm gonna take time and be different. And that's hard sometimes, because society goes,

Shannon Grissom (34:24)
Yeah, I don't like it. I meditate I take naps I take walks I do all that and

Paul Overton (34:30)
yeah, napping is I've really gotten into last year as well. Napping is incredible. my goodness. I never let, you used to let myself do it at all. And then this last year I was like, yeah, when my body feels tired, I'm just going to lie down and see what, and sometimes I don't go to sleep, but it's still rejuvenating, you know.

Shannon Grissom (34:46)
be a 10 minute thing and then I come out and I'm a total my attitude is better everything shifted and yeah and if I see myself getting cranky or just you know not feeling the love then I'm like okay I I need to either meditate take a nap do something because this is not a good space to be

Paul Overton (35:08)
It's

not a good space to be in. get it. By the way, my dog loves it napping as well. He's like, God, we're going to bed in the middle of the day. Fantastic. This is a what a treat. Two o'clock. Let's go. Let's go to bed. They really do.

Shannon Grissom (35:19)
Yeah, dogs have it down. Wow,

well, you've been inspiring lots of things for me to think about. Where can folks find you online?

Paul Overton (35:31)
You

can go to objectlesson.design. instead of .com, it's .design at the end. yeah, you can communicate. You can look at pictures of stuff that I've done there. You can read about TGIF there. You can find my class page link there. And you can contact me if you want to contact me to work with me or ask me questions. I'm open to that too, know, any of those things. So.

Shannon Grissom (35:53)
well that's great i will put all that information in the show notes great well thanks paul you've been great

Paul Overton (35:59)
Thanks so much, Janet. It's

been great to be here. It's been a really fun conversation. Thanks for having me. ⁓

Shannon Grissom (36:03)
you.

Hey guys, thanks for tuning in to Painterly Life. Please be sure to like, subscribe, and share so that I can make more of these and keep us all inspired. That's a wrap. We'll see you next time. Bye bye.