The LMD Podiatry Podcast
Board certified in Podiatric Medicine and Surgery, Dr. Dabakaroff completed her training in Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Dr. Dabakaroff has been published in textbooks and has done research for various foot conditions. Dr. Dabakaroff brings with her new methods, both surgical and non-surgical, for treating multiple foot and ankle ailments.
Dr. Dabakaroff launched a podcast to educate and keep her community informed about various aspects of podiatry. Her goal is to offer a valuable resource to people while establishing new connections both within and outside her community.
To learn more, visit: LMDpodiatry.com or contact (954) 680-7133
The LMD Podiatry Podcast
EP # 22: Why Your Feet Hurt And What To Do
What if stubborn foot pain isn’t a foot problem at all? We sit down with registered nurse and Second Brain Health founder Rachel Hayon to connect the dots between chronic pain, hidden inflammation, toxin load, and the reflexes your nervous system uses to guard and move your body. When scans keep coming back “normal,” Rachel explains why nutrition, detox, and MNRI reflex integration can finally move the needle.
We dig into how excess fat isn’t just extra weight but an inflammatory organ that releases cytokines and stores toxins, keeping tissues irritated and recovery slow. Rachel breaks down why many “fortified” foods rely on synthetic vitamins, how that can block absorption, and what to choose instead to support DNA repair, methylation, and anti-inflammatory pathways. From smart supplementation to simple detox tools—movement, sweat, sauna, hot baths—you’ll hear practical steps that reduce load on tissues so podiatry treatments can actually hold.
Then we go deeper into MNRI: how gentle touch wakes skin receptors, calms the central nervous system, and re-patterns primary reflexes disrupted by trauma. That shift can ease jaw clenching, improve foot alignment, and help the hips and knees share load. Real stories bring it to life, including a case where post-surgical pain finally softened once nervous system patterns and lifestyle were addressed. The message is clear: treat the person, not just the plantar fascia. Rebuild the foundation—nutrition, detox, movement, stress relief—and your body remembers how to heal.
If this conversation gave you a new way to think about pain, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs hope, and leave a quick review so more people can find it.
Visit LMDPodiatry.com to learn more about getting back on your feet—for good.
Welcome to the LMD Pediatry Podcast. Trust us to get back on your feet. Here's your host, Dr. Lauren DeBakarov.
SPEAKER_00:Hey everybody. Happy Monday. This is the LMD Pediatry Podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Lauren Debakaroff. And today we have a special guest, Rachel Hayon, a good friend of mine, who does lots of stuff. Rachel, tell us what you do.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks for having me on, Lauren. So my name's Rachel. The name of my company is Second Brain Health. I am a registered nurse and I do everything from health coaching to balance board training to utilizing a therapy called MNRI.
SPEAKER_00:So I met Rachel many years ago and we're we reunited randomly, and it was a great reunion, and I learned a lot about what she does. And I wanted to bring Rachel on today because I feel like what she does is very important to do in conjunction with what I do. So as you know, Rachel is on a podiatrist, and I see a lot of foot problems, and there's just some people that don't heal from anything. Um, if they have an injury or um chronic pain or something like that, there's something going on in their level of health that's not letting their body repair itself, either it's the DNA repair or their age. And I find that a lot of it has to do with their actual well-being. And I know that you're a lifestyle coach as well. And we talked a little, we always chit-chat about what you do. You've actually helped me in the past. Um, you still are. And uh, how do you think that like how do you incorporate what you do when someone comes to you with a pro like? I feel like everybody comes to you when there's just something that they can't figure out, and you find out like um on a deeper level where their health comes in. How do you feel like it incorporates to people with different pains and aches around their body?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, it's a good question, Lauren. And yes, everybody ends up coming when they have a problem, right? Not usually preventatively. So the first thing that I do is look to see what somebody is eating, how are they sleeping, are they taking supplements? If so, what are they? Um, but a lot of what we can do for our health is in our own hands in terms of proper food choices, which is still very tricky today given what's on our shelves. So a lot of times people don't know what the proper thing is to eat, and that in itself is an education process. Um starting with that will lead to better results with any type of therapy, or if somebody comes to you with an injury and they're inflamed, um, you can do as much as you can do. Obviously, you're trying your best, but they have to do their part in terms of proper nutrition, uh, proper supplementation. And a big one that people don't talk about very often is detoxification of the body.
SPEAKER_00:Right, which is I think I mentioned it briefly on some of my other podcasts that you know, today we live in, especially in America, there's just like our food is not nutrient-rich. So you kind of have to, because of the soil, and it's like a big topic that people aren't really aware of, and I feel like that's a really big part of DNA repair. Like, I think you and I have a mutual patient. We actually have talked about this person recently, and uh he there's nothing I I did his surgery and every type of therapy I've sent him to like every therapist and every adjunct I can I can think of, and every MRI came back that there's nothing wrong with his foot, and I was like, all right, it's all in his head, and you came in and you helped him a little bit, and it was like um you mentioned that it was just a response to the trauma he experienced from you know having foot pain up until he finally met me and I physically fixed his issue, right? So that's when like I think your I think the MNRI helped him a lot, and it's it's very interesting how people there's like there's like a combination of how people process their pain, and there's also like their physical health on how their body heals, and right a lot of people have like let's say you're 40 years old, but your biologic age is 50, and it's because of the food that we eat, and it's because of our level of health, right?
SPEAKER_02:Sure, absolutely, absolutely. I mean somebody could be like you said, 40 years old, but uh physically seem or feel much older. And in the case of the client that you're referring to, poor guy has been in pain for such a long time, and he did say that you really did try to help him with everything, and he was always baffled that things kept on coming back clear. Um, but he wasn't necessarily eating the best that he possibly could, and because I think of the the trauma that he was in, it was hard for him to get you know into that. So part of MNRI therapy is helping to release the trauma that the body holds. Um and uh and we were talking also about how he could make better food choices and what supplements he could take to help reduce inflammation. And in his case, probably a lot of the clients that you see, or patients that you see, um, if they've been on meds for a long time, if they've been on pharmaceuticals for a long time, uh in all likelihood their body isn't clearing it properly. And that means that they need to do things in order to help clear. And there are some supplements that you and I have talked about, um, but there are other things that you can do on your own, whether it's, you know, exercise is a great detox because you're sweating, going into a sauna, um, going into a hot bath, you know, any of these things will help to remove the toxins that you have loaded in your body. And people always ask, you know, my grandparents didn't have to do that, but they weren't dealing with the amount of toxin exposure that we are today.
SPEAKER_00:Correct. Correct. I I get that a lot on my own personal issues as well. It's hard for me to accept it, but it's the reality, and there's uh there's a lot we can do about it with the help of someone like you. Um it's it's it's very interesting. Like if I have a patient, let's say with a chronic plantar fasciitis, so the most common cause of them continually having the issue is because they're constantly straining their heel, right? But then there are certain points that I I do admit to them, like, listen, you're obese and it doesn't matter how much I immobilize you and how much fancy regenerative medicine I use on you, you have a constant strain on your foot from the weight. So it's very hard for them to like admit it to themselves. And you know, I on the last podcast, me and Jeremy were talking about chronic pain, and it's just like your body can't recover from that if you're constantly straining the same area. And right you can physical therapy and get all the steroid injections and all the stem cell injections and all the laser, but if there's 400 pounds on that foot, it's not going to get better, and and that's also part of the repair.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And it's also that people don't realize that fat cells themselves are inflammatory. So in addition to the physical weight, they're inflammatory fat cells. Uh fat cells release something called cytokines. Cytokines are inflammatory molecules. So just the fact that somebody is carrying excess fat on their body means that they're constantly in a state of inflammation. Um, incidentally, fat cells also house toxins, it's our body's way of keeping us safe. So the larger somebody is, in all likelihood, the more toxins they're carrying around and their body can't get rid of them.
SPEAKER_00:I once heard I once heard something about vitamin D that even though we technically have a lot of vitamin D in our diets and things like that, that we don't release it into our body because it gets stored in the fat cells. And once you lose the fat, it gets released into your bloodstream.
SPEAKER_02:Correct. And you also have to look at what type of vitamins you're you're getting. Um, meaning a lot of foods now are fortified with different vitamins. Those vitamins are synthetic. So because they are synthetic, the body oftentimes cannot actually process them. In fact, it can poison them. It's it's it's a problem, and and people don't realize that and don't know any better. So a lot of the breads and cereals and pastas, they are fortified, um, which can make weight loss harder, which can make healing harder. It's better to eat foods that are fortified and then buy good quality supplements. And um, again, that's something where people think or feel, like you said, that the soil is not as nutrient-dense as it used to be. Um, that's one, but two, a lot of the toxins that we're exposed to, a lot of the things that are in our environment can actually leach vitamins and minerals from our system, and that makes it harder to heal as well.
SPEAKER_00:Like what? Can you give some examples?
SPEAKER_02:Of course, folic acid. Folic acid is a great one because folic acid is in everything. Um, pregnant women are told to take folic acid, um, but it's in a synthetic form of a B vitamin, and oftentimes you can't convert that properly. So it actually blocks a receptor in your body for the right type of B cell or B vitamin, excuse me. Um, and that can lead to not just difficulty with detoxing, it can lead to a deficiency in the vitamin you think you're getting.
SPEAKER_00:Do you um do you see a lot of patients with like chronic extremity pain? Like foot pain, leg pain.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, anybody you refer to me most likely has that.
SPEAKER_00:Some sort of these, I bet you people with like a bad diet, they have tired feet and then things like that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, for sure. For sure. Because again, they're inflamed. So whether it's tired feet or tired legs, if you're not moving and not getting things out of your system, in all likelihood you feel more pain, more exhaustion.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Can you expand more on how MNRI works? Because I know you've done it to me, and I still don't understand how it works, but it does work. Um I will tell you a personal story. I clench really badly, um, and it's from this subconscious anxiety that I have. I'm always worried, and I clench a lot, and I've grind ground my teeth to nothing, and I've tried night guard night guards are protecting my teeth, but I still can't stop the clench. And I tried TMJ therapy, I tried massage, I went to chiropractors, and like this this muscle is really, really tight. And then with Rachel's help, I have been waking up with loose jaws. And if you can just expand on what the MNRI means, as in like um, like I know it's activating the dormant reflexes, but can you just expand on how it's supposed to work or what people can expect from an MNRI session and how many sessions do people typically need, and things like that?
SPEAKER_02:Right. Well, it's you know, I'm glad you draw us feeling better.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, it's great.
SPEAKER_02:Um so MNRI was developed by Svetlana Mascatoba. Um, and MRI is Mascatoba neurosensory motor uh integration, which is really long, which is why it's easier just to say MNRI. Uh at first glance, and Lauren can vouch for this, it just looks like a massage. It doesn't look like anybody is doing anything to you. Um, protocols work from waking up your skin receptors, uh, which is something that I've done, and that can calm down the central nervous system. Um, one of the main components of, and and that is what MNRI is about. It's calming down the central nervous system in different ways. Okay, in different ways. So when we talk about primary reflexes, we all are born with reflexes. And the one that I I like referring to because I think it's the easiest we can all relate to it, is if a baby grabs your finger, are they actually grabbing your finger? No, they're not. It's a reflex. They're supposed to grab your finger, and that movement of knowing how to protect themselves by grabbing on is a precursor to being able to protect themselves later on. Like there's another reflex that's called hand supporting, where if you are falling forward, what do you do? Or what should you do? You should put your hands out in front of you and hold yourself before you fall, right? But some people don't have that reflex. Um, I know because I have a kid who didn't have that reflex, and she would fall flat on her face.
SPEAKER_00:So um, how does that how do we how how does someone typically lose that reflex that they're supposed to lose?
SPEAKER_02:Traumas, typically traumas. Um, either either something happened to them um in life or they didn't develop, you know, in the proper way for whatever reason. We're not always going to know why unless it's an obvious like there was an accident or there was a birth trauma, um, or you know, it could be as simple as somebody falling on the tush, and that could throw them out of the proper uh out of the proper sequence. And these reflexes, these movements our body makes relate to how our brain um processes things and how it develops. So we develop from the brainstem up. So we start here and we come up here, and that's how we're supposed to. And the movements that we make can influence the way our brain functions. So M and RI can obviously, like you know, Lauren said, it would help loosen up her jaw, right? Um, but hopefully also help take away some of the tension and anxiety that she was feeling. And when anybody feels that, you know, tension and anxiety, what have you, worry, it it takes away from how much you can accomplish in life because you're worried. Oh, you clenched it.
SPEAKER_00:I think you told me you clenched too.
SPEAKER_02:I I did. I did a lot worse before. Um, I did a lot worse before.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_02:But doing different things has helped tremendously, and it's a problem a lot of people have, yeah, you know, unfortunately. Um, but M and RI can help with everything from relaxation to help with learning disorders to help with with anxiety to help with people who are, you know, or children who were have behavioral difficulties. And um, like one little boy that I am still seeing, but after about 10 sessions, he his reading improved dramatically, and that was a side effect, meaning his mom brought him because he was having behavioral issues in school, and then all of a sudden he just didn't stop reading. And she's like, I I don't get what you did, but it worked. Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. It it helps connect left-right brain, it helps connect your brain so it works better. Um, people don't correlate that touching the body changes the brain, but it does.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it's a very soothing session. She just touches you in certain spots with certain movements, and it's very relaxing. And I've definitely felt a difference, and I can say that I maybe I don't feel I don't wake up with a painful jaw as much as I used to, and it's a lot very helpful. Now, how can we relate this to my patients, Rachel?
SPEAKER_02:There's a lot of reflexes that have to do with your feet. There's a ton of them. There's a ton of them. Um, so if if some trauma has happened to the foot, it's very possible that the feet are not laying in the proper position as they should. And with MNRI, you can gently manipulate things back to where they should be. You know, I mean, I had it done to me where a therapist worked on my feet and my feet were constantly falling out to the side. And God bless her, after a couple of sessions, my feet were straight up like this, which is where they're supposed to be anatomically. Is when you're laying on your back, your feet should be sitting, stand, you know, pointing to the ceiling. Um, and when she did that, I can say for myself, uh, my hips stopped hurting. I I felt like my muscles were coordinating better in one of my legs. Um, and uh, and again, it's gentle manipulation that I do.
SPEAKER_00:Fascinating. Even me, I actually had a tendonitis on my left ankle, guys. Yes, the podiatrist had tendonitis, and I couldn't figure out why it kept coming back. I would I would immobilize, I would, you know, do whatever I do to all my patients when it comes to a tendonitis of the ankle. So I would do that, I would do the same treatment that I do to everybody else. I felt better, then it came back. Did the same thing again, felt better, came back, and then I'm like, I don't know why my my tendonitis keeps recurring. And I'm like, and then it's funny, I actually did a lot of research and I thought maybe I had an anatomic misalignment. I was like, I don't know, sometimes I measure patients with limb length discrepancy, they have arthritis or they had a knee replacement, um, and then all of a sudden their left leg or their right leg is a little shorter than the other, and then I measured myself to be even. So why, why? And then all of a sudden my hips started hurting, my knees started, why am I and then it's funny? I think I was talking to you about it, and I was talking to a chiropractor, and I actually spoke to like a therapist about it, and it seems like because of all the anxiety I've had in the past couple of months, you know, being a business owner and everything, um, it seems that I was clenching the left side of my body a lot. So even though I wasn't anatomically short, I was still stressing one side of my body over the other. And then that manifestation was tendonitis in my foot. Again, most people don't talk about this stuff because it's not very common, but there are things that definitely can happen to someone that causes their pain that they're not aware of. And even I saw it on myself. I was like, how come my tendonitis, like this is what I treat? I'm a doctor. Like, why is it my tendonitis book? I've done everything in the book. And and and and and just by like seeing that I do have like my inner anxiety, it does affect my muscle tension, like now it's affecting my leg and my my back. So I was like, oh wow, I really have to fix that. And then with MNRI, with you know, breathing exercises, and I think some of your your movements I've been doing have been really helping, and you know, I don't really have the pain anymore like I used to. Once in a while, once in a while it acts up, but uh it's not nearly as bad as it used to be. And you know, when it when it acts up, it's either had a little anxiety, but not because I was wearing the wrong shoe or not um you know aligning my foot properly. And uh it's it's very you know, but you're you're finding ways to help yourself, and that's why that's why people like you exist when you know not everything is in a textbook, not everything is in uh you don't learn everything in med school, like most of what I've learned is from experience with patients, and I see what works, and even like I said, like the obese patient that doesn't cure their their foot pain, they have to lose weight, and lifestyle is very important, and that's where you come in. So that is very important to repair yourself and don't spend all your, even though I have all this fancy regenerative medicine treatment. You always I always like to get to the root of the issue, you know, before I treat the symptom. Like, sure, I can provide your relief of pain with a pill or or whatever, but I always tell my patients, what's the root of the problem? The root of the problem is you're not walking, you're tight, uh, you don't exercise, and you're wearing the wrong shoes. And all that in combination causes your foot issue.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right. And it is always a combination, right? It's never really one little thing that happened, you know, and with you know, with the guidance from you in terms of that, and like you said, if they need the regenerative medicine piece, then you'll provide. Otherwise, it's really nice to hear that a doctor is trying to find another way to do it, you know, lifestyle changes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, a hundred percent. And with that, Rachel, thank you so much for coming on to my podcast. I think thank you for having me. I think everybody's getting very well informed that it's not, it doesn't just end with a pill and uh with shots. There's always something else that you could do to help your body repair. And if you guys ever want to reach out to Rachel, uh she is where can we find you, Rachel?
SPEAKER_02:You can find me on Instagram under Second Brain Health. And if you're in Dr. Debakarov's office, I think she has some of my business cards.
SPEAKER_00:I do. All right, guys, it was a great show. See you next time.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for listening to the LMD Podiatry Podcast. For more information, visit LMDPodiatry dot com. That's LMD P-O-D-I-A-T-R-Y dot com. Or call nine five four six eight zero seven one three three.