73 - Sharing Secrets: When to Speak, When to Stay Silent

We all carry secrets—ours and other people’s. But should we? Is it ever right to share them? This episode dives into what Scripture says about managing secrets with integrity.

In this episode, we unpack biblical stories like Samuel keeping his mission quiet, Esther hiding her identity, and Samson… oversharing. You'll also hear why making blanket promises of confidentiality isn’t always wise and how to handle sensitive info with love, wisdom, and care.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:05

Welcome to the Exhorter podcast, where we aim to stir up love and good works through bite-sized biblical discussion. Kyle, you're over there with Bible open and pen and notepad handy. What you got for us today, man.

Speaker 2 0:22

Well, it's not a secret that the best thing about a secret is secretly telling someone your secret, thereby secretly adding another secret to their secret collection of secrets. Secretly, yeah. A little SpongeBob quote for you to get things started.

Speaker 1 0:38

Don't be so secretive.

Speaker 2 0:39

Yeah Well, we're going to talk about secrets and we've all been in some situations where we feel like we've got a secret that we keep from people and sometimes it's bothering us and we want to unburden ourselves. No, I'm not going to go there.

Speaker 1 1:01

We'll go there for the outtakes.

Speaker 2 1:04

We want to unburden ourselves from what has been unburdened by what has been come on.

Speaker 2 1:11

Man, it's right there it's right there sometimes we are burdened with a secret that someone else expects us to keep, and it's just the urge to. I have something that I want to tell people, or it's like I really need help. I learned something, or maybe we discover something. It's not something told to us, but we discover something and we're just not sure. Should I tell someone, or is it a secret I have to keep? So we all encounter this idea of secrets and sometimes it gets us into trouble. Sometimes we wonder should I keep the secret or should I expose it? What is my obligation here? Yeah, so I want to first just begin with the question of what do you guys think is? Is it wrong to have secrets, and I mean just like something that I am choosing not to reveal to others?

Speaker 1 2:03

Well, it depends on the like there are. No, I don't think I don't think, generally speaking, it's bad to have some information that you don't share.

Speaker 2 2:15

That was a loaded question.

Speaker 3 2:18

Where do?

Speaker 1 2:18

I go with that.

Speaker 2 2:19

But I think the term secrets. I'm not looking to get you either and this isn't a gotcha kind of question.

Speaker 1 2:24

Sure, kyle, sure, kyle, sure. I think the term secrets has some connotations to it that other words that describe the same idea with holding information don't have.

Speaker 2 2:35

Yeah, context can matter.

Speaker 3 2:37

I mean, there's no secrets with God, cause he knows everything Right Well, and I think that that's, we have our own prayers to God where we confess or we share and we talk about those things. I think it's contextually relevant to the secret and to the effect they have on others. So if they have a direct effect, correlation to other people like keeping a secret from your spouse or something, I think that those are things that are important to share.

Speaker 2 3:22

And I mean I think a lot of times we think about secrets as being all negative, but they don't always have to be negative. They can just be the thoughtful birthday present. You shouldn't keep secrets from your wife, but what if it's a thoughtful birthday present?

Speaker 2 3:28

yeah, I think, contextually, it matters what the secret is, and one time I, when we lived in utah years ago, I started going to uh, bio life plasma and I was donating plasma for money and I thought, well, I'll just keep this my little secret. I I'll save up some money. I'll surprise Jessica with you know be money. We'll go on a cruise just because before we had kids and we can do fun things like cruises. Um and so one day at dinner I take her out and I said, well, look, I've got about $800 saved up and I've been donating plasma and all this. And she broke down crying and upset because she was. It bothered her that I could keep such a big secret from her and that I was so good at keeping. Like, what other secrets might I be hiding from her?

Speaker 2 4:10

Yeah, that didn't go the way I planned. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we can laugh about it now, because you know I'm putting it out there in the public because we have a guy, because it's out there now, but yeah, sometimes sometimes you think it's fine to keep a secret, but the other person doesn't.

Speaker 3 4:27

Well, there's some more harmless ones, like honey. You keep making me this meal but thinking it's my favorite meal, but I have never liked that meal. Your wife cooks for you, I don't know. But my point is there are some times that you I am going to get in trouble for that one. There are some times where it's not like a harmful secret. It's just maybe a thought or a preference or something that you have in your head that's just a part of you, or maybe something you think is interesting.

Speaker 3 4:59

I think what is a secret?

Speaker 2 5:02

Well, it's when you keep something to yourself and don't reveal it to others.

Speaker 3 5:08

Is that just your brain? Like? Is your brain always having secrets? I mean, unless you're like me and literally say everything, you're thinking all the time and talk so much. There's a lot of quiet people, I know. Are they just full of secrets?

Speaker 1 5:21

Yes, or are they just not very… Secretive people, or are?

Speaker 3 5:24

they just not very outgoing and talkative people like you, no wonder are you talking about? Sharing everything in your brain is, does it?

Speaker 2 5:34

I'm saying there are some things that you want to keep close to the chest and maybe not but does it have to have a value for it to be a secret?

Speaker 3 5:43

is it a thought?

Speaker 1 5:44

so it's not just any information that you don't disclose.

Speaker 3 5:47

I'm wondering what, technically, is a secret at that point? Is it because of impact or value to other people?

Speaker 2 5:52

You can keep your intentions a secret. A good example of that is in the book of 1 Samuel 16. God asks Samuel and this is a good example because it's God asking Samuel to keep a secret, or at least telling him it's okay to keep a secret because he says you're going to go and anoint David as king. And Samuel's reaction is how can I go? If Saul hears it? He will kill me, he'll know something's up if I go to the house of Jesse. So God answers and says well, then take a heifer with you and say I have come to sacrifice to the Lord and invite Jesse and his family, and so that way you have a legitimate excuse to be there and it won't arise. But you don't. Samuel didn't have to tell him well, I'm also here to anoint your youngest son as king. No, he did that secretly, he did that privately, but he had. He gave himself an occasion to go and keep his intentions secret, and that's what God told him to do.

Speaker 1 6:46

So isn't that?

Speaker 2 6:46

kind of deceptive. Is deception wrong? Lying, I would say, is wrong, but deception is not always wrong. And so here's an example. I mean, god told Samuel to do this. Samuel never lied. He never said oh, I'm not here to appoint anyone king. He didn't lie about that sure, sure, sure.

Speaker 3 7:06

Well, we're right back into the gray again. Look at you. Yeah, well, we gotta circle back to deception. I'm from this, wasn't the topic. I'm from the pacific.

Speaker 2 7:16

Northwest gray is my color, could you be?

Speaker 2 7:20

more pacific and there's other examples too, like uh well, samson, all right, tell me your secret. And every time he made up a lie, she she would have some philistines come and try and kill him. He should have known she's trying to kill me. But finally you know she's like what do you? You hate me or something. And she's crying to him. He's like okay, it's my hair. So she cuts off his hair and he admits later that was a stupid mistake, I should have kept my secret. So there's an example where keeping a secret would have been in his best interest. Well, it also in that example.

Speaker 3 7:57

One of the dangers of keeping secrets is it provides you opportunities to lie. If you keep on holding on on I mean he lied to her multiple times, tried to deceive her what it was. Um, if you have that secret and you're holding on to it, the likelihood and and chance that you would lie to cover it is greater. This is why torture is torture exists because some information has value.

Speaker 2 8:23

Yeah, Should Samson have just told her about the hair from the beginning then and disclosed a secret?

Speaker 3 8:29

No, no. But I'm saying there's a risk, I'm saying there's a temptation, there's a risk that that would be the case.

Speaker 2 8:37

Well, secrets aren't bad. Some secrets just should be kept. That is true Now. Esther's another good example too. Too, because she kept her nationality a secret. She didn't. It wasn't, it wasn't made aware to king ahasuerus that she was, you know, an israelite. But at the appropriate time it actually saved a lot of lives well, sarah kept her relation to her husband a secret.

Speaker 3 9:03

Until she didn't Until she didn't, or until it was made known? Yes, but I would also argue who determines whether a secret is right or wrong?

Speaker 2 9:12

I would also argue that Abraham and Sarah shouldn't have been in Egypt in the first place.

Speaker 1 9:15

God didn't tell him to go there, but regardless, he still was in that position and he still had to.

Speaker 2 9:22

So how do we know? It's a secret, he lied.

Speaker 1 9:24

He didn't lie. He said this is my sister and she was. He was deceptive.

Speaker 3 9:30

All right, which I was just told a second ago.

Speaker 1 9:33

Hold on a second, that's okay.

Speaker 3 9:34

It's okay to be deceptive. It's not necessarily wrong in and of itself. But the real question is what makes a secret right or wrong?

Speaker 2 9:43

to tell Nuclear option here. Okay, no, no no.

Speaker 3 9:45

Deuteronomy 29, verse 29. The secret.

Speaker 2 9:48

Things belong to the Lord. All right, God has his secrets. There are things that God has not disclosed to us, and there's nothing morally wrong about that. Deuteronomy 29, 29.

Speaker 2 10:00

It's one of those good catch-all verses as a preacher that if you don't know how to explain something, well, it's one of those secret things that belong to the Lord. The secret things belong to the Lord, our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever. That we may do all the words of this law. I would also say that Jesus at times in Matthew 9 and verse 30, he healed. I believe it was blind men there. Matthew 9 in verse 30.

Speaker 1 10:34

Let's see. After their eyes were opened he sternly warned them, saying see that no one knows it. He said that quite frequently All over the book of Mark All over the book of Mark.

Speaker 2 10:39

Yeah, don't go telling people. In the book of Mark there's this change when he tells his disciples you see it in Matthew too, in Matthew 16, when he has that conversation with who do people say that I am Okay? Well, who do you say, well, you're the Christ, the son of God Great. And from that time forward he told him he would suffer and be killed and be raised after three days, and prior to that he spoke almost exclusively in parables. He was keeping back his true. He was trying to ease them into that. He says up until now you would not. I've told you have you, has you been able to handle it? But now I'm going to lay it onto you unvarnished. So prior to that you could say he was keeping some some things back, holding back some elements. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 11:23

I just I think back, holding back some elements, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I I just I think that's strategic. Yeah, you know, sometimes, um, like, if, if I have a criticism for someone, sometimes I don't come right out and like hit them with it full force. Right, I'm holding back some information. Um, I'm holding back some information and I let it out to them kind of in small, small pieces, you mean there are criticisms that you haven't told me about myself I told you you should you should shave your beard.

Speaker 3 11:51

That was a criticism. It feels like you hit me. That was pretty well that was a criticism well so.

Speaker 1 11:56

So secrets aren't bad depends on the secret, so that's my point is In and of themselves, they're not bad.

Speaker 2 12:03

They're not inherently bad.

Speaker 3 12:04

But maybe it's like inherently they're not bad, but relationships, or certain relationships that you have, expect a certain amount of transparency and openness.

Speaker 2 12:21

There are things I know about my wife that none of you guys need to know and I am perfectly justified to keep those things secret from you two. Yeah, 100% Like you have zero need to know those things that I know about her, Things that you know, you don't have to tell us. Well okay. I won't get into it.

Speaker 3 12:39

But does she have the same right towards you? But does she have the same right towards you? My point is is some relationships have that expectation of transparency right. Obviously, marital relationships Obviously those that have an inherent confidence between it. A lot of times people will go to elders or to preachers and tell them something. There is an inherent confidence level to that, I feel, even if it's not in the priest box.

Speaker 2 13:14

Right, but does that necessarily make it an absolute, though? I always tell people like, look, I'm not a priest or I'm not a lawyer?

Speaker 1 13:20

I don't have-. Well, technically you are a priest, just FYI.

Speaker 3 13:23

But what about-? We're a nation of priests, so you're saying you're not a psychologist, there's not a legal, there's no patient confidentiality here.

Speaker 2 13:29

Yeah, there's no legal term Patient-client confidentiality I can tell on you Well, and so let's kind of get into this.

Speaker 3 13:46

What would be some good guideposts to keep us from venturing into bad territory with with secrets? Yeah, Cause I think a lot of the time this subject comes up it's when people have shared secrets of others and it's had a negative effect, or it's led to things like gossip and other things.

Speaker 1 13:57

Just because I perceive something as a negative effect doesn't always mean that it actually is like. For instance, what if I am, um, I am struggling with sin and you know about it and I don't want, I don't know, my wife or the elders or something like that, and you go talk to them about it Um, have you created something negative for me? Well, there might be consequences for me, but is that necessarily negative? Like in the big scheme, no, because now the sin that I'm struggling with, I can make changes, I can improve, I can get past it and be right with God, and so should you share that secret.

Speaker 3 14:36

In that instance, I think that you're justified in doing that. Ideas of best practices kyle was getting into is there's? There's probably some ways to do that in a way that allows you to maintain your relationships with these with people heuristics and just relationships and, in general, like not overtly selling someone out or offending them.

Speaker 1 15:00

You know, like, like right.

Speaker 3 15:01

And that has to do, kyle, we've talked about this before. It has to do in the way that when someone's wanting or willing to share something with you, what you say next right, because, kyle, you've done it before too it's like someone walks up to you and says hey, I, I can I tell you something, or I have a secret or something. Rather and I've I think I've heard you talk about this before too yeah, you're kind of like hold on a second yeah Well, let's kind of talk about this what would be some good guideposts?

Speaker 2 15:30

I'm going to lean heavily on the book of Proverbs because it's very practical wisdom, but also understand these are not absolutes, they're general truths which, in most situations, are going to be the way to handle it.

Speaker 2 15:41

But this is a very nuanced topic the idea of secrets and that's why I started the introduction with are they bad? Kind of a broad, open-ended, loaded question, because I just wanted to point out that we're not going to have neat and tidy answers at the end of this podcast. Necessarily it's not going to all be wrapped up tight and crystal clear, but I think we can give some parameters that will really help navigate some of the situations you might face, the first of which I would say as a general rule is don't gossip. And I'm not going to lean too heavily into this because we've done a whole episode on gossip, which I think was excellent. But Proverbs, chapter 11 and verse 13, says a tailbearer reveals secrets, but he who is of a faithful spirit conceals a matter. If you confide in me, I'm going to do my best to make it stop with me.

Speaker 2 16:34

I'm not going to go and become a gossip where I've got some news about someone and I just I like being in the center of attention because I'm in the know, or you know, look at me now because I know some things. Or you know that I think it's the whole of attention because I'm in the know, or look at me now because I know some things. I think that's the whole point of being a gossip, and so just a general rule, I'm going to try my best to keep it to myself, and this works both ways too. When it comes to revealing secrets, it can be really nice to have someone to confide in. It can be really nice to have someone to confide in. Yeah.

Speaker 2 17:06

But think carefully about who that is, because if you know this person to be a tailbearer, to be a gossip, what do you think they're going to do with the things you disclose to them?

Speaker 1 17:15

Yeah, that's a great point.

Speaker 2 17:19

So I don't want to engage in gossip and I'm also going to be cautious about who I maybe confide in.

Speaker 1 17:26

That might be a good starting point, but so when we, when you, asked for some guideposts, I mean, there's one that came to my mind, which is if by keeping it, if by keeping that secret you are doing harm, then I think it's your duty to share that, and if, by telling that secret, you are doing harm, I think it's your duty to keep it.

Speaker 2 17:47

Yeah, by you can become complicit. Sure, I've had people drop nuclear bombs on me before, whereas I don't know what to do with this which you just told me. I'm having an affair with so-and-so, but don't tell my wife, I don't want to become it always happens at the end of the conversation.

Speaker 3 18:07

It's always like, but don't say.

Speaker 1 18:11

But don't say anything by the way, don't say anything, period yeah it's like wait, hold on a second.

Speaker 3 18:16

I never agreed to that. Yeah, now this is.

Speaker 2 18:19

this is going to be my next suggestion that leads in really well to this, because that's one of the natural. That's like I said, these are general guidelines because you can poke holes in each of these points that are valid, so we have to kind of keep scrambling to answer. Every question brings up two more questions that we have to find an answer to, and that's a really good one is what if? What if you feel like concealing I don't want to be a gossip but what if I feel like it makes me complicit? Well, here's another good guidepost, and you kind of alluded to this earlier, john. As a general rule of thumb, I don't write people blank checks. What do you mean, kyle? Can you keep a secret?

Speaker 1 18:53

Well, it depends on what it is. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 18:56

And so I've had that happen before, especially early as a preacher, when I was in my early 20s at a church with no elders. Someone comes up to me and discloses an affair. And we had no elders, and I'm 23, 24 years old, barely out of the training program here at Clovis, and I'm like I don't know what to do with this. Do I need to protect them? I mean, certainly the other person involved I got to go talk to them. Now that I know they're having an affair with this person who's also a church member, what about that person's spouse? That is now the innocent party. What, what do I do with this?

Speaker 2 19:31

And I decided that I did need help and I talked to one or two other men. After talking to these people, I tried to follow Matthew 18, go to them in person, and then I said I need two or three witnesses and I picked the two guys that actually became elders a few months after that event. But, yeah, and so that taught me really quick. And so you think of stories like um, uh, what's his face in the book of judges? That that uh sacrificed that? Oh, his daughter, his daughter, yeah, um, oh, I sound really professional now, what's his face?

Speaker 2 20:02

in judges paul said somewhere it says yeah, right, so you're okay yeah, what's. What's his face in the book?

Speaker 3 20:07

of judges.

Speaker 2 20:08

Google what's his face name is judges um, but but another example would be um. What's his face in the in the book of matthew?

Speaker 1 20:15

no, no, I'm kidding. Who sacrificed his daughter? And I just asked grog. Let's see how fast that jeff the, jeff the yeah, I'll offer whatever comes out my door and it was his daughter and he's like, well, I'm not gonna keep my word.

Speaker 2 20:25

And then, of course, you got Herod. He's the what's his face in Matthew 14, by the way. But Herod is like you know. His stepdaughter was dancing. He said I'll give you whatever you want. How about the head of John the Baptist?

Speaker 1 20:35

on a silver plate.

Speaker 2 20:36

Got to do it. He said it in front of his guests and he's like I don't want to checks.

Speaker 2 20:45

I think if you do find yourself in that situation where maybe you agreed to something and then regretted it, well, if it makes you complicit in sin, I think, don't make it worse. Just own up to the fact that I shouldn't have said that and I need to come clean. That's my two cents worth. So, as a general rule of thumb, I don't let people write blank checks to people. If they want to come and disclose something to me, I say, look, I don't tell everything to my wife, but I also don't like keeping secrets from her. Also, if I think I need to talk to the elders about this, I want you to know that's something I may do. Do you feel comfortable to proceed? Maybe you guys have a different take on that, but that's something I may do. Do you feel comfortable to proceed?

Speaker 3 21:30

Maybe you guys have a different take on that, but that's kind of my approach. If they say no and just walk away, do you feel like you just lost an opportunity to help that person. Like how do you?

Speaker 2 21:42

Has anyone ever said no? Then I go to the elders and say, hey, you might want to have a conversation, go corner them. Yeah, but has anyone ever said no, not, hey, you might want to have a conversation, go corner them.

Speaker 3 21:50

But has anyone ever said no, not really. Because a lot of times people just want to tell someone.

Speaker 2 21:54

I try to reassure them like hey, I'm only going to go to the elders if I think it's in your best interest and I'm here to help, and that usually satisfies people. I tell them, like look, I'm not going to go right away to the elders and I'd like to help you if I can, but the only reason I go to them is if I feel like I can't be the one to help you or you need more help than I can offer. Um, and generally, that that soothes people enough, their worries or concerns enough. When I, when I present it not from this like legalistic, I'm trying to guard my bases kind of standpoint, like I want to cover myself from from you know what is it. And yeah, I come.

Speaker 3 22:31

I come at it more from the angle of like I genuinely care about you yeah, and if you need, if you need more help than I can provide, that's what the elders are for, and so okay, so that covers someone telling you something that it could be harmful to themselves and or the situation that they're involved with.

Speaker 2 22:51

Let's come back to the Samson one, because you brought up a good point earlier, John, about how secrets can create a temptation.

Speaker 3 22:59

Yeah, so I mean, here's the thing is, for example, I think my wife and I have kind of an unwritten rule that we generally will share things with each other and what we share with each other we don't really share with other people. I feel like your spouse is there to help you process and to get through things, and I just always kind of had that in my head, that as husbands we kind of do share things If it's getting gossipy, I won't Just because she's my wife doesn't necessarily mean she needs to know.

Speaker 3 23:30

Well, you want to remove temptation from that as well.

Speaker 2 23:32

I want to talk about removing temptation. But, Nate, I didn't want to cut you off.

Speaker 1 23:36

Thanks, what's your name?

Speaker 3 23:39

That one time he doesn't want to cut you off.

Speaker 2 23:42

No, no, no.

Speaker 1 23:43

I think we need to remove temptation.

Speaker 1 23:51

So this actually happened to me a few months ago. Someone came to me that my wife and I both knew, and that person shared with me a big mistake that they had made. What'd they do? Well, let me tell you and then I'll tell you their name. I'm just testing you, nate, yeah. So they came to me and they shared that. Then I'll tell you their name. Um, I'm just testing you, nate, yeah.

Speaker 1 24:14

So so they came to me and they shared that to me and they specifically asked. They said you know, I'm really embarrassed by this. Please don't share it with with anyone. And and I honored that I told them yeah, I won't, I won't share it with anyone, I won't even share it with my wife. Um, and when I spoke, when I revealed it to my wife no, I didn't tell my wife, but I shared that a person that we both know is having a struggle and that sort of thing I said they asked me not to share it with you just because it's very embarrassing. And she was like okay, totally understood. And so in that instance, I was keeping information from my wife, but she had no need to have that information. It wasn't going to make things better.

Speaker 2 24:53

I'm curious Did she know, like, did she know you met with this person? Oh, yeah, okay. So, there's probably because I was going to bring up the idea how do we guard against this temptation, and my answer was going to be well, if you have a secret and you intend to keep it a secret, like you've decided, it's something that doesn't need to be shared and I do need to hold on to this and not become a gossip.

Speaker 2 25:16

I would say your best approach is don't tell someone you have a secret. Then your situation is a little different, because she knew you met with a person and so she's already curious. She's expecting me to tell her. I just need to snip, you know?

Speaker 1 25:30

uh, what's the phrase in the bud right now.

Speaker 2 25:32

Um, so that that's a little different scenario, but I was thinking like, like John, it's, it's really eaten away at me. I, I actually have a secret right now.

Speaker 1 25:40

I'm keeping for someone that that affects you, and by this now, it kind of alters the dynamic in our friendship, because and I'm not I can't tell you though, john, and now you should see John's face, are you?

Speaker 2 25:52

talking. I know what you're doing you know what I'm talking about. No, okay, because you're not going to get it out of me. I'm going to keep it a secret till it comes out on its own, cool. But now this alters. Now Nate feels left out.

Speaker 1 26:08

I was going to say I feel really awkward.

Speaker 2 26:10

I can tell Nate, as long as you don't tell John. You already did and I won't tell him.

Speaker 1 26:14

Okay.

Speaker 2 26:16

But okay, so I actually do have a secret from John.

Speaker 3 26:19

But you're providing that intrigue.

Speaker 2 26:20

But the thing is is when you go around saying you know, I've got a secret People do that all they provide intrigue, and then it's but I'm not going to tell you sure?

Speaker 3 26:28

okay. Or they say oh uh, yeah, never mind, I said too much, or I shouldn't say that but then the person you said that to is going to ask question after question until until you reveal something and then you say, oh well, you already figured out by now.

Speaker 2 26:40

Let me just tell you yeah, you're inviting, you're inviting questioning. If you're going to keep it a secret, keep it a secret, then just shut up about it and don't even tell someone you've got a secret, like I just did to John, because it's going to bug him. He's pretending like it doesn't bother him, and I think that comes back to the Samson story. Is he shouldn't have told her in the first place? Oh, there's a secret to my strength, yeah.

Speaker 3 27:03

When my dad was an elder, I wasn't privy to all the conversations that the elders had. Right, it's not like he came home just sharing all the things about this person and that person, but I did hear my parents talk about things a lot and I think that that's kind of how I always just envisioned.

Speaker 2 27:25

Did you put on the headphones but not listen to things, so they would think you're listening to music.

Speaker 3 27:30

No, I just knew that when people are talking about something, but they aren't really talking about something, you know what?

Speaker 2 27:33

I really miss is when you used to be able to pick up the house line phone and spell out the calls.

Speaker 3 27:39

You know when someone is talking about something, but they're not really saying anything. You know, you can kind of get that you do that all the time. Yeah on the podcast. Wow sorry, john, I love you bro. That's a really good burner um.

Speaker 3 27:53

So I guess I just always soothe him I always heard that kind of a relationship and just kind of in myself said, uh, that's how that kind of relationship should be. It should be close and confidential and sharing. And but yeah, there are times where I do have, you know, people tell me something that it really hasn't. She wouldn't even know or care. You know it has no bearing too does anyone really like to keep a secret?

Speaker 1 28:18

I mean, that's if people know that you have a secret like, but in general it gives you a sense of power I don't know, I don't really like holding on to stuff that because it's nice to not have that responsibility responsibility over things, so I'd rather just not know, but in some

Speaker 2 28:35

cases it's like the quote from the beginning of this episode from SpongeBob. Patrick had a secret box and SpongeBob was so bothered that Patrick had a secret. And the more Patrick hyped up this secret box and what was in it, it just made SpongeBob want to know the contents of the box all the more, until it almost ruined their friendship. I've learned everything about life from Bible and SpongeBob and Star Trek.

Speaker 3 28:59

And Simpsons. There's got to be the Simpsons is an awful show.

Speaker 2 29:02

We don't talk about the Simpsons. Was that a secret?

Speaker 3 29:07

It was literally on the podcast.

Speaker 1 29:08

So I think there's got to be something said about the importance of keeping something confidential that someone has asked you to keep confidential Because so. So, for instance, there are certain people that I know that cannot keep secrets, or perhaps they cannot keep something confidential about this person or that person. They will share it with this person over here who's who they have a good relationship with, but when that happens, it's like like it ends up being a chain reaction. Yeah, I'll keep a secret, but I'll just share it with this one person who I'm really close with, but then that person then shares it with one person that they're really close with. And all of a sudden, this thing that was confidential. Maybe I shared it with and I'm not saying this hasn't happened to me, but maybe I shared it with an elder and then they shared it with another elder or their.

Speaker 2 30:03

It's almost like when we do a mass text to our church family. It might be quicker to just go to that one person you know that one person and tell them the news but say keep it a secret, and it would go faster than a text thread.

Speaker 1 30:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If there is a secret, keep it a secret. Don't even tell that one person that you know you're, you're really close with it. You know if, if it's um, if it's appropriate to keep that secret, just don't share it.

Speaker 2 30:28

There are some things. If it's appropriate, there's some things that we just shouldn't keep as secrets, and I'll I'll say one category. If you look at Psalm 101, it says in verse 5, there are some things like if it's something someone told you in confidence, or it's something that, for whatever reason you decide, is in the best interest to keep to yourself, or it's a there's a lot of reasons to keep a secret. But what about some reasons not to? Psalm 101, verse 5, says whoever secretly slanders his neighbor, him I will destroy, and that's really essentially gossip that we're talking about, but I like that it talks about secretly. It's okay to keep a secret for others, but to share secrets about others.

Speaker 2 31:12

I think that's where this is crossing a line. I think that's what this verse addresses. If you share your opinion about someone who's not present, you're secretly slandering them. It's like a secret, like if after this show, you know nate and I talk and you're like man, we need to get a third chair in here because john is just not cutting it. But then when I see john John, I'm like oh, good work today, John.

Speaker 2 31:38

You know I'm disingenuous to his face, but I'm secretly giving you my real opinion. That's wrong To share a secret about someone. My secret opinion. If that's my opinion of John and it slanders him to someone else, I should just keep it to myself.

Speaker 3 31:55

And I should probably work on my attitude, and there's a lot of Proverbs. The one I was looking at was proverbs 16, 28 of the. A dishonest man spreads strife and a whisper separates close friends essentially exactly what you said, um. But then there's also 11, 13, where it's whoever goes about slandering reveals secrets, but he who is trustworthy in spirit keeps the thing covered. Is that the one you said earlier? Was that Proverbs 11? 11, 13? Yeah, yeah, do we make a? Is there a difference between a secret and confession, such as? A lot of times, people share secrets. They're not necessarily about themselves. Well, it depends.

Speaker 2 32:34

Sometimes they are. You could confess in a public way and that's a way of disclosing rather than concealing or confiding Some people don't do that, though they they confess to one another.

Speaker 1 32:45

You know, according to, I mean if I asked you to keep it a secret. Then that would probably be like let's say, I did something wrong to you, John, and then I came to you and I confessed to you that I made that mistake and I said you know, please don't share this with others. I'm kind of embarrassed about it. But then after that, do you have an obligation to not share the wrong that I did to you, Because I was embarrassed about it and I requested that you not share.

Speaker 3 33:12

I think it's because what makes us difficult a lot of times is this is one of those areas where we feel that the circumstances around the secret and the actual secret is subjective. It depends. We're always like it depends. You did something towards me and you confessed to me. But what if you were just confessing something you did out there, kind of like Kyle talking about someone in adultery or something?

Speaker 2 33:38

An example that popped in my head would be Joseph and Mary, when he was under the impression that she had been unfaithful to him. You know I didn't. She's pregnant and I know I'm not the dad, but he was going. He didn't need God to tell him this. In fact, god had to say keep her as your wife. But Joseph, just out of his own kindness, said I'm not going to share that.

Speaker 2 33:57

If it's adultery, she could be stoned to death and I don't need that to happen to her. That's my impression of why he intended to put her away, quietly or secretly. He was trying to conceal for her benefit and I think there's some idea to that too that if someone has confessed something to me or confided in me and it does me wrong and I feel like I should be able to tell people about it, but if it's in their best interest, it's just like in 1 Corinthians 6 when he says if you go to a court of law, you've already lost. You're taking the name of Christ. Unbelievers Just take the loss and that's actually a win. And sometimes I try to remember that as a Christian, sometimes taking a loss can be a win If it glorifies God or helps someone out. Even if it puts me at a loss, it's a win because I did the right thing for the right reason. Do we have a set of.

Speaker 3 34:50

I feel like what's beneficial in conversation like this. You know, in this area in life is like a one, two, three like set of criteria that we look to when we have this information right, something to filter this information through. Do you have one, two, three? Yeah, I just have one, the bible you know, the things that come to my mind is just like is this my story to tell? Does this sharing, edify or destroy? Are there exceptions to this rule? Like do we? Have these kinds of.

Speaker 2 35:22

Filter it through the greatest commandment, yeah, yeah, what would be in God's best interest and what would be in this person's best interest? Amen, and that's what I would say would be the most important lens to filter these kinds of situations.

Speaker 1 35:34

to too, and and, and, if you, and if you genuinely aren't sure, um, maybe you can ask someone who's wiser than you in a way that doesn't reveal the secret.

Speaker 2 35:47

I'll just go anonymously on a facebook chat group and ask for help.

Speaker 1 35:49

Yeah, there you go, make sure you put their name. Whoever the secret?

Speaker 3 35:52

you know, it's so funny though you can have an episode like this and people are probably there's probably like a dozen people who who maybe listen to this that we know who are like that's it. There's only a dozen people that listen, I know I meant there might be a dozen people who think that this, this is about their secret if you think I'm talking about you, I'm, I, I probably am, but I'm also at the same time, I'm not.

Speaker 1 36:18

Just so you all know. I don't even know who we're talking about.

Speaker 3 36:22

It's not in result to anyone specific, but it's something I feel like over years we kind of deal with. Right, it's just a natural thing. You're always hearing. And then what if you hear things about other people like you weren't even really needing and necessarily wanting to hear, and someone just offers things up and it feels like a secret. And now do you have that obligation because you heard it offhand from someone else?

Speaker 2 36:46

I think one final consideration is and this is an absolute don't don't conceal, don't keep your sin secret. Proverbs 28 and verse 13. And I love this. You know you think the gospel is New Testament. The gospel is the whole Bible, and it says in Proverbs 28 and verse 13, he who covers his sins will not prosper, but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy. That's what God wants from us. Go back to the very first sin Adam and Eve in the garden. And what do they do? God shows up and they're hiding. They made crude garments out of fig leaves and they're trying to cover up their shame. And God wants us to simply expose and confess our sins, not cover up and conceal. So this can take the form of finding a trusted brother or sister that you can confide in.

Speaker 2 37:35

As the Bible, like James, chapter five, tells us confess your sins to one another. We need to be humble enough to do that. It doesn't mean I need to tell you every time I've done something wrong. You know, nate, I call you up at 2 am. I just had an impure thought, or, nate? I just was greedy. I saw something on TV and wanted it, and I became greedy. I need to confess to you it's like okay, we don't have that problem, we have the other problem we never confess our sins.

Speaker 3 37:58

We never confess our sins. But what about the other side of that too? Always confess it to God, like at minimum. What about the other side of that, too? Where do we need to have grace given to people knowing it's a hard thing to decide to keep something to yourself or share with other people? I mean, we should expect people to hold confidence but also sometimes.

Speaker 2 38:23

Yeah, but I'm never telling you anything, ever again.

Speaker 3 38:27

But sometimes I feel like if I shared something with Nate and Nate felt he felt like he needed to talk to someone else about it and to either give me advice or to do something else, I feel like maybe I need to give him a little bit of grace, in the sense of when I'm trying to be open with people, other people are also trying to do that. If I've done that in the spirit of, like you said, passing it through the filter of the grace command if.

Speaker 3 38:54

I've done that in a spirit of love and I might need to also trust that that person has my best interests at heart and he's not just gossiping about me. But maybe he did talk to an elder, maybe he felt like he needed to have that spiritual guidance and to know how to guide me, and maybe it slipped somewhere because things happen.

Speaker 3 39:14

Sometimes you oh, that's not something I should have said. I'm sorry. I just feel like maybe giving people a little bit of grace in that as well, because some things happen and it's not always out of malice or gossip intent.

Speaker 2 39:27

Well, and we're not perfect, if we look in the mirror and do some proper self-examination. Ecclesiastes 7, verse 21, says it this way. Also, do not take to heart everything people say, lest you hear your servant cursing you. For many times also, your own heart has known that even you have cursed others, like if you're mad at someone for disclosing a secret or doing what they thought was best, but it wasn't what you wanted, you've probably done that to someone else yourself. You're being honest, which we should always be honest. If I'm being honest, we should always be honest it's okay to be deceptive, but we should be honest.

Speaker 1 40:02

Well, kyle, that was a great topic, very interesting, I think, very applicable Proverbs usually are.

Speaker 3 40:10

Yeah, hopefully you've listened to this and now which of the three of us is most honorable and trustworthy.

Speaker 1 40:17

I don't think it's a secret.

Speaker 2 40:20

One thing you definitely should not keep a secret is this podcast oh. Like it, share it, subscribe, comment on it. We want to hear from you guys. What topics do you want to hear?

Speaker 1 40:33

Mic drop. Yeah, don't keep it a secret. Secretly, I was going to say that, but you beat me.

Speaker 3 40:42

Then what is deception and why is that yeah?

Speaker 1 40:45

yeah, and next week? What's deception, deception.

Speaker 3 40:48

With the Samson Delilah bit.

Speaker 2 40:50

I mean deception Because you never finished that. You never finished that. Deception isn't always bad. Where are you going? Nate, because this is is part of the pipe.

Speaker 3 40:56

Yeah, yeah this is it. Oh my goodness, I'm sorry bro. No, no, what was the? Samson delilah bit the? Um, I don't think you actually.

Speaker 2 41:10

You went there and then we sidetracked. You said it was oh, samson should have just never disclosed in the first place that there was some secret gimmick to his strength.

Speaker 3 41:16

But that there is that temptation right when, if having knowledge and information, it definitely is a temptation to-.

Speaker 2 41:24

Once she figured out that there is some sort of secret to it, she was not going to stop until she found out what it was, so he should have just kept the secret like secret.

Speaker 3 41:33

Well, Nate's not here now, so you can tell me the secret you weren't telling me. No, I mean what Kyle, here now?

Speaker 2 41:38

so you can tell me the secret you weren't telling me. No, my Kyle, you'll learn eventually. You'll find out eventually, is it?

Speaker 3 41:43

something that I'll be happy about. No, stop probing, is it something? Oh see, that's what we do too. We're mocking this up. This is a real scenario. Now tell me a little bit of information so I can guess no.

Speaker 1 41:57

I can't, then why?

Speaker 2 41:58

did you tell me a little bit of information so I can guess.

Speaker 3 41:59

No, I can't, then why did you tell me in the first place?

Speaker 2 42:02

Because I thought it was a good illustration.

Speaker 3 42:04

Give me a little tantalize now.

Speaker 2 42:06

Now you're seeing the change dynamic in our friendship now, yeah, and I like it. But I can't tell you.

Speaker 3 42:13

I feel like you have more power than. I do right now because you have something I want.

Speaker 2 42:19

I'd be betraying her trust or his trust. I'd be betraying his or her trust if I said this. That's so rude.

Speaker 3 42:31

I'd give you grace.

Speaker 1 42:34

I love you, lily. I deceived my daughter this morning. I told her she could have one more minute watching Cocoa Melon, and I really set the timer for 45 seconds. Don't lie, you've done that.

Speaker 2 42:45

I usually don't even set a timer.

Speaker 1 42:48

Five more minutes, and then however long you feel.

Speaker 2 42:52

Well, we just do it when they're cleaning their room, like five minutes. It's like I really don't care as long as they're worried, it's just to get them to stop goofing off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that is a bit deceptive. Yeah, is that OK? I don't know.

Speaker 1 43:03

No, I think that I do think intention matters. I think there should be do a whole podcast on deception. I think we should. Ok, good.

Speaker 2 43:15

It's like when I promised my sermon it's going to be a short one and it's not Remember when I said my sermon would be short. I lied. You've been deceived, john. What do you think?

Speaker 1 43:28

John's being oddly quiet today. John, he is good. I don't know how we would do this podcast without John Kyle. You'd be pretty good.

Speaker 2 43:41

Hey, do you want to know the secret I'm keeping from John?

Speaker 1 43:44

Are we recording right?

Speaker 2 43:45

now. Oh, I probably shouldn't say it then, but he'll hear this when he comes back in the room and listens to it later.

Speaker 1 43:52

That's good, that's funny. Yeah, I don't know what it is, and that's okay.

Speaker 2 43:55

And he'll get so excited when he hears me say that until you say, oh, but isn't he recording? Then he'd be like oh man.